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ladystoneboobs · 2 years

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Handless and Noseless, the Lannister boys.

assorted lionbros thoughts

in tywin’s intro scene with tyrion he says jaime would have never submitted to capture by a woman. but a few chapters later, jaime is defeated, not by a woman but her teenage son, but it’s cat, the very same woman who captured tyrion, that he chose to offer his (already lost) sword to. and after she frees him he spends time with another female captor, brienne, who he couldn’t beat in a swordfight.

after he was captured by catelyn tyrion had no doubt that jaime would work to rescue him, whether leading an army against riverrun or winterfell or answering a call to the eyrie to fight as tyrion’s champion in trial by combat. jaime did rush into action trying to kill ned in the street, until ned pointed out how stupid that would be while cat held tyrion, so jaime had ned’s men killed instead, a rather pointless gesture. tyrion’s own efforts to free jaime from stark-tully captivity were more clever yet also still dishonorable as he sent false envoys to kill edmure’s guards and try to sneak jaime out of riverrun.

both men tried to save their female captors against their own expectations, after first thinking screw her. later jaime remarks (about sansa) that tyrion “gets these fits of gallantry from time to time”, while speaking to brienne, who reawakened his own sense of chivalry.

Catelyn Stark was trapped against the stone face of the mountain with three men around her, one still mounted and the other two on foot. She had a dagger clutched awkwardly in her maimed hands, but her back was to the rock now and they had penned her on three sides. Let them have the bench, Tyrion thought, and welcome to her, yet somehow he was moving. He caught the first man in the back of the knee before they even knew he was there, and the heavy axehead split flesh and bone like rotten wood. -Tyrion IV, aGoT

When Jaime looked up, Brienne was lumbering along the clifftop, well ahead of them, having cut across a finger of land while they were following the bend in the river. She threw herself off the rock, and looked almost graceful as she folded into a dive. It would have been ungracious to hope that she would smash her head on a stone. Ser Cleos turned the skiff toward her. Thankfully, Jaime still had his oar. One good swing when she comes paddling up and I'll be free of her.

Instead he found himself stretching the oar out over the water. Brienne grabbed hold, and Jaime pulled her in.

Stupid stubborn brave bench. She was going to get herself good and killed, he knew it. And what do I care if she does? If she hadn't been so pigheaded, I'd still have a hand. [...] He shouted, "SAPPHIRES," as loudly as he could.

The lie spared you awhile, wench. Be grateful for that much. "If her maidenhead's as hard as the rest of her, the goat will break his cock off trying to get in," he jested. Brienne was tough enough to survive a few rapes, Jaime judged, though if she resisted too vigorously Vargo Hoat might start lopping off her hands and feet. And if he does, why should I care? I might still have a hand if she had let me have my cousin's sword without getting stupid.

[...] "Walton," he said, "saddle the horses. I want to go back." -Jaime I, IV, & VI, aSoS

both men had complicated relationships with catelyn stark and tried to save/protect her daughter sansa. each feeling a debt to sansa through tyrion’s marriage vows and jaime’s vows to cat.

when tyrion and tywin reunite again in king’s landing, tywin blames him for his injury saying jaime wouldn’t remove his helmet during battle. once again, he did not quite know what he was talking about.

Even at a distance, Ser Jaime Lannister was unmistakable. The moonlight had silvered his armor and the gold of his hair, and turned his crimson cloak to black. He was not wearing a helm. -Catelyn X, aGoT

before his first battle tyrion wonders if jaime ever contemplates death. and in his second, where he chose to lead a charge, he found himself drunk on battle fever, experiencing feelings he’d learned of from jaime, which he’d never expected to know for himself. after jaime’s maiming, as he does think of death, he also thinks he understands what tyrion feels like being laughed at for his physical struggles, an experience he probably never thought to know for himself either.

both men had adventurous roadtrips starting as captives which involved revealing a tragic backstory to a close companion once they were no longer captives. tyrion told bronn about tysha as they traveled back through the vale and jaime told brienne the full truth about his kingslaying as they shared a bath at harrenhal.

both men inherited honking madonna/whore complexes from tywin which flipped a switch for them when they felt betrayed by their idealized love interests. tyrion’s lover actually was a prostitute but finding her in his father’s bed was the breaking point for him, leading to a murderous rage against tywin which shae was bound up in. his relationship with shae was more a mental roleplay of what he’d lost with his more innocent first wife, tysha, and after learning the truth about his first love (who was a virgin when they met), tyrion spends the next book obsessing about her and tywin’s last words calling her a whore. likewise, after jaime learns of cersei’s infidelity he spends the next book obsessing about it, thinking of her as a whore, and at one point dreaming of finding her fucking moon boy and smashing her teeth.

"[...] Are you a maiden, Shae?"

"If it please you, m'lord," she said demurely.

"What would please me would be the truth of you, girl."

"Aye, but that will cost you double."

Tyrion decided they would get along splendidly. -Tyrion VIII, aGoT

[Hildy, Lord Bracken’s mistress]”...your hand is solid gold. I like that in a man. And what is it you like in a woman, m'lord?"

"Innocence." -Jaime I, aDwD

both men had a problem with marital rape though they would not think of it as such. tyrion refused to consummate his marriage to sansa on account of her age and unwillingness, neither one of them wanting the marriage, though i don’t think it would have occurred to either of them to think of potential sex as rape instead of an unpleasant duty. jaime actually thinks the marriage should make tyrion happy when he hears of it, not taking sansa’s side into account at all, which tells me he also wouldn’t think of consent automatically overriding duty as we would. however, a woman in physical pain, being attacked during sex, was wrong to him even though the attacker was her husband, the king himself. (i think it’s important to note that it’s unlikely either brother knew their sister was also abused, as one of jaime’s first lines is asking cersei at winterfell whose fault it was that robert didn’t care for her, and cersei thinks of hiding her bruises from him.)

both men aspired to do justice while representing the throne, though imo it doesn’t exactly work out that way in either case.

"So what will you do, m'lord, now that you're the Hand of the King?" Shae asked him as he cupped that warm sweet flesh.

"Something Cersei will never expect," Tyrion murmured softly against her slender neck. "I'll do . . . justice." -Tyrion I, aCoK

[...]some outlaws had taken shelter in the root cellar beneath the second brother's keep. One of them wore the ruins of a crimson cloak, but Jaime hanged him with the rest. It felt good. This was justice. Make a habit of it, Lannister, and one day men might call you Goldenhand after all. Goldenhand the Just. -Jaime III, aFfC

most of my tyrion/jaime feelings come from tyrion’s pov, but one of my fave moments is when jaime first feels bad about hassling brienne because she reminds him of tyrion, which he finds “queer”. but he’s right to sense the similarity because the big warrior woman and his dwarf little brother are both outcasts because of their bodies and their inability to live up to rigid gender roles. this is one of our first hints of jaime’s better nature in his own pov and could be the first time in years he developed sympathy for a non-family member, but it’s still related to his compassion for tyrion, already known from tyrion’s pov.

jaime’s other sign of respect for tyrion is trying to think more like him to solve problems once he’s lost his swordhand. he’s probably never gotten the full my mind is my weapon speech from his brother but he recognizes it as such regardless, which means he knows how smart tyrion is and that violence is not the only valuable tool. even before the maiming, in his first chapter, with two hands in chains and no sword, jaime wished to think more like tyrion. earlier, tyrion had wished he could be like jaime when he felt threatened after cersei captured alayaya, which leads me to my last point...

The prospect of returning to his cell did not appeal to Jaime. Tyrion could think of something clever now, but all that occurs to me is to go at them with a sword.

Once Jaime might have countered with a smile and a threat, but onehanded cripples do not inspire much fear. He wondered what his brother would do. Tyrion would find a way. -Jaime I & VI, aSoS

What would Jaime do in my place? Kill the bench, most likely, and worry about the consequences afterward. But Tyrion did not have a golden sword, nor the skill to wield one. He loved his brother's reckless wrath, but it was their lord father he must try and emulate. -Tyrion XII, aCoK

the other time i think of jaime imitating tyrion is when he’s trying to prove which of them is tywin’s true heir, but doing so in a way which tyrion had already done. jaime brought a “peaceful” end to the 2nd siege of riverrun by forcing edmure’s surrender through a horrific threat to edmure’s (future) child, just as tyrion tried to keep alayaya safe through horrific threats about tommen, (his sister/enemy) cersei’s child. both think of tywin when making their threats but i’d say they’re acting like each other more than tywin because of the conflict they feel. both of them feel they were forced into making such threats and however satisfied they felt about inspiring fear and using simple words instead of bloodshed, they didn’t want to do either in the first place, didn’t want to play the part of a villain. tyrion was trying to protect alayaya the only way he could by using cersei’s unfounded suspicions about him hurting kin against her. he felt sick when he found out yaya had been whipped because he never thought of actually retaliating with tommen, which left him relieved to learn tommen was already back with cersei and it was tywin who had alayaya whipped. jaime was desperate to avoid storming riverrun in part to avoid breaking his word to catelyn about never harming her family again, keeping to the letter of his vows if not the spirit, and was otherwise trying to be more goldenhand the just rather than the kingslayer on his second riverlands campaign. the only real commonality with tywin in all this is the satisfaction of successful use of fear as a tool. but tywin would feel no qualms about doing so, no discomfort at being “made” to say the words, no offense at people he threatened hating and fearing him, and if he wanted to he likely could order his threats carried out as easily as he made them. (with the exception of his threat to hang shae, which he obviously did not keep.)

eta: important addendum

both jaime’s kingslaying and tyrion’s kinslaying came with the same odor as the evil older man expired.

He[Aerys II] lost control of his bowels, turned, and ran for the Iron Throne. Beneath the empty eyes of the skulls on the walls, Jaime hauled the last dragonking bodily off the steps, squealing like a pig and smelling like a privy. A single slash across his throat was all it took to end it. So easy, he remembered thinking. A king should die harder than this. -Jaime II, aSoS

"Wherever whores go," his father had said. His last words, and what words they were. The crossbow thrummed, Lord Tywin sat back down, and Tyrion Lannister found himself waddling through the darkness with Varys at his side. He must have clambered back down the shaft, two hundred and thirty rungs to where orange embers glowed in the mouth of an iron dragon. He remembered none of it. Only the sound the crossbow made, and the stink of his father's bowels opening. Even in his dying, he found a way to shit on me. -Tyrion I, aDwD

#asoiaf meta #valyrianscrolls #tyrion lannister #Jaime Lannister #who else would save him if not his brother?#(c)lsb #if you think there's one good lannister brother and two evil siblings #well...#and esp if you think the only good one is jaime while tyrion is pure villainy i'm side-eyeing #bc you're not fooling anyone about why you think that way

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