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butterflydm · 7 months

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looking towards s3

I'm going to be doing a bit of wild speculation for s3, here, after going through the various book narratives and moments to check off what the show has already covered (including some speculation about certain plotlines having been subbed in for other ones) and so what's likely next for them in s3. Contains book spoilers through Knife of Dreams and casting and location spoilers for s3.

(for a more thorough "what's already been done", @sixth-light has one here: what's in and what's out: characters; worldbuilding)

The Eye of the World:

I think we can probably all agree that the one big thing from EotW that hasn't been covered yet is the introduction of the Caemlyn-related characters, other than Elayne -- namely Elaida, Gawyn, Galad, and likely Morgase. We know that this will happen in s3, at least to a certain extent.

They came in clutch at the last minute with giving us Elayne taking care of her 'bird with a broken wing' aka her meet-cute with Rand.

The Great Hunt:

Pretty much everything narratively important about TGH was covered this season. Some of it was remixed (Rand's 'Fal Dara' encounter with Siuan and the Aes Sedai happening in 2x7 in Cairhien instead of at the start of the arc) but pretty much everything important has been done.

And Siuan being much harsher with Rand in the show than in the books makes it understandable why Rand is not willing to trust Aes Sedai (with a handful of exceptions). imo the change in Siuan's plotline was done for three reasons: a. to set-up Rand's increasing wariness around the White Tower and Aes Sedai; b. to have a narrative reason why none of our main characters are going back to the White Tower next season; c. to set up a character arc for Siuan in s3+. Obviously, time will tell on whether or not I'm right, but those were the reasons that came to mind immediately after 2x7 and I still think they're likely reasons.

re: 'flicker-flicker' - the most important thing coming out of flicker-flicker is that Mat is determined never to 'betray' Rand, like it's implied that he did in some of the flicker worlds, and Mat has absolutely made that emotional commitment due to the events of this season.

The only important minor character from bk2 specifically that we don't get introduced to is Egeanin, I think, and again, that's a case of "if we have her, we want to introduce her when she's more narratively relevant", which would be either s3 or s4 in this case, for Nynaeve and Elayne's storyline. We also still have Egwene's introduction to Gawyn being held in reserve for when he enters the story.

The Dragon Reborn:

Elements pulled from TDR into s2:

Perrin (and thus viewers) getting introduced to Aiel culture (though through Aviendha rather than Gaul, combining two separate elements of bk3 into one introduction).

Mat being trapped in the White Tower and then released back out into the world.

Our introduction to Moiraine's spy network.

I think that Elyas being more human-apathetic plus Ishamael telling Perrin that "the more wolf you are, the more you're mine" may have subbed in for Noam and his loss of connection to humanity, driving Perrin to be wary of the wolf-connection.

Moiraine threatening Lan with a forced bond-change because she's trying to push him away.

Rand being hounded in his dreams and being lured to a site of prophecy by one of the Forsaken in an attempt to rescue Egwene.

Rand's moment of killing people and them kneeling to him (in the books, he actually sets them up to kneel; I liked the show's approach much better)

We also witnessed Mat having an actual reason for his Old Tongue memories and his fighting prowess and the show also may tie his luck into him blowing the Horn, given that he said his battle-cry, so I feel like the "archetype" he has in the Heroes is the Gambler (which I think the 'finn call him?). I really loved that all of Mat's random stuff has kinda been consolidated (and the Horn scene might be my favorite scene of the whole series thus far).

Rand being recognized as the Car'a'carn by Aiel searchers.

Elements that were not used but will happen next season: Perrin meeting Faile. I also think it's likely that Perrin will start going into TAR next season (which could give us either Birgitte or Uno | Gaidal Cain in a re-occurring role). Elayne and Nynaeve becoming Black Ajah Hunters (I'm unsure if Egwene will or if she's going to go straight to her bk 4 plotline; I suspect that she's going with Rand), which is also their bk4 plot. I do think we'll get both Perrin (via Hopper) and Egwene (via the Wise Ones) learning TAR.

Things I'm not sure we'll get:

I'm doubtful that we'll get Egwene & Elayne's Accepted tests at all:

Egwene may come across as an even better patsy/figurehead to Salidar if she's a novice

2x7 really makes me feel doubtful that The Dragon Reborn's friends will be able to waltz into Tar Valon and then waltz back out again (unless they are returning specifically to spy out the mood in TV re: the Dragon and Moiraine?)

Egwene choosing over and over to abandon Rand in the Tests feels like it would directly contradict her character arc in s2, where her motivation for working so hard in the Tower was to give herself the strength to protect the ones she loves.

@sixth-light suggested the idea that Egwene might get her "what is to come" vision in Rhuidean and I like that idea a lot -- if she goes with Aviendha to the silver rings and catches glimpses of her potential futures!

I feel like Aludra might not get introduced until very soon before we need to take the Stone of Tear (or potentially not until after Ebou Dar, when she's needed to create the dragons).

I also suspect that we'll skip Thom's storyline from this book just like we skipped his storyline from bk2 and go straight into his post-Tear bk4 storyline, since Rand is going to be doing Aiel politics and not Westlands politics next season. So my current suspicion is that Thom is going to be part of Elayne & Nynaeve's storyline (and then once Elayne and Nynaeve come back into Rand's storyline, that could be when Thom helps Rand).

This is also the book when balefire first appears (Rand uses it on Darkhounds; Nynaeve uses it for the first (and only?) time; and Moiraine uses it twice). Not sure when the show will introduce it, because I feel like it's going to be The One Way to actually kill Forsaken, so it may be held back closer to when one of them dies. I suspect we'll see Lanfear get doorway'd in s3, but I don't think any of the Forsaken will get killed off until s4 (Rahvin, if he exists) at the earliest. If Rand kills Rahvin with balefire in s4, that gives the rest of the Forsaken a reason to back off and keep their distance (especially if Moridin shows up in s5 to take the reins back over on prioritizing corrupting Rand over killing him).

What might happen in s3 but might be reserved for s4: the convergence on Tear and the various roads people take there. I feel like Tear is likely to come after the Waste and maybe even after Cairhien (Tear may be where Sammael is instead of Illian, but then Rand fails to kill him there and he flees to Illian?).

Also, as I keep noting in my reread posts (which is where I'm getting this info from) Mat is much less anti-Rand than fandom agreement had led me to believe/remember was happening in the books at this time. He dislikes The Dragon Reborn (TM) but his thoughts about Rand as a person tend to be more regretful or frustrated than fearful. So the show is doing fine there, since they've dealt with the The Dragon Reborn (TM) issue by having the whole "who is the Dragon plotline?" in s1.

The Fires of Heaven-A Crown of Swords:

I think we already covered "oh no someone else may get Lan's bond" and he'll go directly from Moiraine to Nynaeve, because Alanna has a more important forced bond to take (probably in s4). I am wondering if we'll see Nynaeve bonding Lan much earlier than in canon, maybe even at the end of s3 if Moiraine goes through the doorway and Nynaeve ends up in the same city as Rand & co.

Crossroads of Twilight-Knife of Dreams:

Guess who just got murdered! So... no Renna and no Seta. And maybe no more Suroth. The show has been ruthless with the Seanchan (not a complaint). The show is also leaning much more heavily on the friendship of the Two Rivers Five (plus now Elayne), so Mat doing any of the bullshit that he does in CoT & KoD feels less likely because this Mat doesn't have the excuse of dagger-sickness to forget what happened to Egwene in Falme. After the show made such a (beautiful! spectacular!) show of Mat being a good person at heart, even being a Hero of the Horn, which he wasn't in the books... yeah, they are not doing the book version of Mat & Tuon (thank fucking goodness). They may do a version of Mat & Tuon, but I think it will be very different from the books, if it happens.

One of the new interesting changes that the show appears to have done (from what Egwene said in 2x8) is make sul'dam extremely weak channelers instead of being learners. I think this has some fascinating implications re: Tuon because it means that a collar would 100% work on her. In the books, the sul'dam get tested along with all the other women to see if they are damane and if any of them have sparked, they end up caught.

It's only over long years of use that they develop their 'affinity' with their damane and this is when the collar would work on them. So, per book canon, it's entirely possible that putting a collar on Tuon during any of the books would fail to do anything, because she's still quite young and also is not 'complete' as often as many other sul'dam because of her high status. But in show canon? That collar will work 100%, because they use the Searchers to find marath'damane instead of testing every woman in the Empire every year (until they turn 25, I think it was). If the show is working backwards to decide on these changes, then it's entirely possible that this change in the way finding marath'damane is done was 100% specifically for Tuon's potential storyline down the road.

Also, I love that it means that Tuon is a weak-ass channeler, because that was always my head-canon for her anyway.

The Shadow Rising:

Elements already pulled from TSR+ into s2: Rand knows that Selene is Lanfear and Lanfear is offering to protect him from the other Forsaken and wants to work with him. And Rand also knows that "the Dark One" is actually Ishamael and the rest of the Forsaken are now out in the world. We've also learned about ji'e'toh already. TSR is also when Moghedien was introduced.

What likely won't happen in s3: I think Tear itself will be held back until after the arc in the Waste. They've already done some of the related character-work from the start of bk4 in s2 already, with Lanfear and Rand, and most of the other stuff (the 'finn doorway) could be moved to Falme if need be. Or, since we have the all characters going east, maybe it'll be in Caemlyn when the characters split up to their various plotlines (which would give us Elaida's Foretelling for Rand and Egwene meeting Gawyn) and then they wouldn't have needed to have Falme as a location shoot for s3 at all.

I do suspect that the Rand & Elayne relationship is being pushed to a later season and we'll likely get the beginnings of Rand & Aviendha instead (which makes me suspect that Elayne's storylines would get adjusted in a later season to actually give her time with Rand).

What likely WILL happen in s3: the Tower coup and Elaida taking over as Amyrlin; Rand & co going to the Waste and Rand becoming Car'a'carn while Mat gets his medallion and Egwene gets Wise One training; Elayne and Nynaeve (and Thom?) going Black Ajah hunting (or specifically after Liandrin?). Potentially we will see Rand and Aviendha catch feelings for each other as Rand and Egwene fall apart (and Lanfear stalks Rand from the sidelines, since she's not supposed to be interacting with him). And Perrin defending the Two Rivers, of course.

I don't think that we'll get Tuon this early, though we may get the prophecy (and the dread from the audience that Mat is destined to marry one of these horrible slaver people, because the Court of the Nine Moons has already been mentioned).

In addition to being a big book for Rand & Lanfear developments, TSR is wonderful for Rand & Mat as well. There are so many amazing moments for them in this book. If the show hits even a handful of these beats, s3 will be great for the Cauthor side of fandom. Especially with how Josha and Dónal are playing Rand & Mat as very handsy friends who are comfortable with physical touch.

So, what are some potential ways they could go with s3?

(I promise that any and all speculation with be at least 85% inaccurate and may be as much as 100%; does contain some casting and location spoilers for what we know about s3 so far)

Starting place in 3x1:

Option One: Falme subbed for Tear

We do Tear-stuff in Falme (doorway; maybe bubbles of evil) and then the characters split up for separate journeys.

Pros: making the most out of our current location! the characters are already there!

Cons: Have to pay a location fee for an additional season when they could instead use a s3 location.

Option Two: Caemlyn subbed for Tear

We know that Caemlyn is going to be in s3 and they might want to get the most out of their new location.

Pros: Might get Elaida's Foretelling of Rand. Egwene meets Gawyn without needing to go to the White Tower. Mat could do his 1v2 quarterstaff battle against Elayne's brothers. Means that everyone has already traveled significantly to the east during the break between seasons but they're all still together as a group, meaning we won't need as big a timeskip after this. And Elaida's Foretelling could even be the trigger for Rand & co needing to flee the city.

Cons: can't think of any but I'm sure they exist; this genuinely seems like such a good option to me that I am 100% marking it down to potentially write as a fic, if I ever get the time (I continue to collect plot bunnies at an alarming rate in this fandom!)

Option Three: Hurrying through BK3's ending (aka Tear is Tear)

This seems more expensive than it's worth, but maybe they got more money for s3!

Pros: bk3 Tear will be done, I guess?

Cons: expensive set piece and location that is then promptly abandoned so that everyone can go somewhere else

So, we've done our set-up episode and now we've moving on to: everyone goes somewhere else!

Where do they go?

Stop, Wait... Option Four: There Isn't A Set-Up Episode

This is the option for not having any set-up at all and just jumping into everyone's individual journeys.

Pros: Faster to get into the main story

Cons: No bonding time for the group as a whole; fewer character interactions; would probably make me sad

Well, we've either done our set-up or we haven't, so where is everyone going?

Perrin -> The Two Rivers

I mean, we all know it. Perrin is kinda the reason that I think we won't start with everyone already at their destinations, because I don't think Perrin's storyline in the Two Rivers is meaty enough to be stretched out over eight entire episodes.

Wondergirls -> ???

A White Tower stop-over seems fairly unlikely to me after 2x7, though there's a chance. I think it's more likely that we'll get them splitting up to go into their bk4 plotlines.

(If the Wondergirls do go to the White Tower, what is Rand doing during this time? How does Egwene reunite with Rand for her bk4 plotline?)

Verin burned her bridges with Siuan & Leane, potentially (she COULD probably talk herself out of being viewed as Black Ajah... maybe... but it's hard to see how she could talk herself out of being viewed as breaking Tower law) which implies to me that SHE isn't going to return to the Tower, and she is the one who introduces Dreaming to Egwene in the books. Which makes me lean towards the idea of Doing Tear (and the White Tower plots) in Caemlyn.

They could take some of the characters back to Tar Valon in s3 but... but that bridge between Moiraine and Siuan is so scorched right now that it's difficult to see Siuan being willing to let any of them leave the White Tower if they go there again.

Mat -> Rhuidean

Mat didn't touch the dagger, so he has no need to go back to the White Tower literally ever, especially since one of his Hero friends put the Horn away into an interdimensional pocket for later.

Rafe has implied that we will see Mat's quarterstaff battle at some point (unless he just meant that we would see Mat wielding a quarterstaff against two opponents at once, which definitely happened in 2x8), which leads me further to think about s3 starting in Caemlyn, because after that, Gawyn and Galad go off into separate plotlines.

If we assume that Caemlyn takes the place of both Tear and the White Tower for book 3 & early book 4 events, then everyone would go to their book 4 plotlines from here -- Perrin would go west to the Two Rivers; Rand & co would go to the Waste; Elayne & Nynaeve would go to do some Liandrin-hunting. We would only need five main locations for the season, at least two of which are pre-existing -- Caemlyn, the Two Rivers, Tar Valon, the Aiel Waste/Rhuidean, and whichever city Elayne & Nynaeve go to in order to hunt Liandrin (and if it's Cairhien, then they already have the location/set).

Events that I'm Pretty Sure we'll get in s3:

Rhuidean. Rand's walk through Aiel history and Mat's encounter with the foxes. Rand saving Mat's life. <3

Asmodean becomes Rand's teacher.

I do think we'll likely get Couladin proclaiming himself as the Car'a'carn and the chaos of Alcair Dal, because Mat killing Couladin is really what creates the BotRH and cements him as the leader.

The White Tower coup.

Nynaeve faces off against Moghedien... or maybe this season she will still be focused on Liandrin?

The Battle of the Two Rivers.

I think we will start to get Rand & Aviendha in this season, but slow-burn. But if they plan to do the Moiraine & Lanfear show-off at the end of the season, then you'd want the Rand & Aviendha relationship to begin to flower. And then Lanfear is out of the picture (as far as Rand knows), which would let him worry less about her killing any woman that he's attracted to.

Things that we Might Get in s3 (depending on pacing):

We might get either Cairhien or Tear at the end of the season. That really depends on pacing and I don't know how fast they plan to move through the arc in the Waste. There are really only two big Events in the Waste in bk4 -- Rhuidean and Alcair Dal; though there's also visiting Cold Rocks Hold and the attack there.

Moiraine and Lanfear's encounter with the doorway. The reason that I'm thinking this might happen in s3 is because someone (was it Rafe?) teased about a "big cast change" at then end of s3 that book readers would be familiar with. Losing Moiraine right as he gets a Forsaken as a teacher would be very intriguing.

If we are going to do the polycule (*crosses fingers hard*), then there needs to be a decent stretch of time where Elayne is actually allowed by the plot to spend time with Rand. We got our meet-cute and it was beautiful, so I have high hopes. There is also a new tor.com interview where Rafe says that Elayne and Rand have a 'huge arc' together.

For now, I think the time period after her book 4 plotline and before she gets involved in Ebou Dar seems like the best time (as opposed to just wandering the countryside for weeks because Nynaeve can't remember the word 'Salidar'). So after Rand has returned to the wetlands. I am going to speculate that s3 ends with the Battle of Cairhien while, at the same time, Elayne and Nynaeve go to Cairhien for their own story reasons. Because they've already done their book 4 plotline, and maybe part of their book 5 plotline, there's no need for them to hurry off right away. And Elayne spends most of s4 with Rand (and Aviendha) (and Mat). Elayne can help Rand navigate politics in Cairhien, and they can fall in love while being big ol' workaholics. We also could have Dumai's Wells happen here so that Rand can get rescued not only by Perrin but also by Mat, Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve, & Aviendha. Which would just be nice.

I do think, based on the Power of Friendship vibe that we had in the s2 finale, that the show is going to be bringing our characters back together a lot more often than the books did (and I'm happy about that).

So, based on that idea... a tentative outline for s3 (I am not expecting this to end up being at all accurate, lol, just feeling some things out about a potential way things could go based on what we've see so far in terms of how quickly the plot moves and how the show seems like it's more willing to reunite all the characters, so I am going to try to get everyone to Cairhien by ep8 so that they can reunite again; we also might be doing Tear instead at the end of the season):

ep1: The opening of the season is supposed to start with a 'bang'. Would they do the Tower coup this early in the season? Siuan ended s2 in a terrible political position, having the Dragon in her possession and then losing him. And if anyone finds out that she was conspiring with Moiraine for twenty years... otoh, would they want to show us Elaida in Caemlyn first, before taking her to the Tower for that plotline?

I'm not sure how much of a time-jump we'll get, though probably a bit of one, but I'm hoping we'll get to see all the characters together in the same location, as happened in Tear in the books. This may take place either in Falme or in Caemlyn, but our characters will have a chance to regroup and mingle. We may get some of our action from the start of book 4 here -- the bubble of evil, getting rumors of trouble in the Two Rivers. If the opening episode is in Caemlyn and not Falme, it may also feature: Mat vs Gawyn & Galad; Egwene and Rand (at least) meeting Gawyn and Galad. Rand meeting Elaida and getting a version of the Foretelling. This might also have our characters meeting up with Verin and Alanna in Caemlyn, and we may get our Verin & Egwene scenes and a certain gift of a twisted stone ring.

perhaps spurred by Elaida's Foretelling, our group scatters to their future destinations. Since they are much closer to the Two Rivers than they were in the books at this time, it might be that Loial leads Rand's group through the Ways to Rhuidean, rather than leading Perrin to the Two Rivers. Egwene meets the Wise Ones in TAR and decides she also needs to go to Rhuidean with Rand.

ep2: Perrin arrives in the Two Rivers and we get a look into that situation; Elayne and Nynaeve get interrogated by a woman who is definitely not secretly Moghedien. Rand and Mat ask permission to go to Rhuidean. In order to make it so that all the characters are heading in to the same place, maybe Elayne and Nynaeve went to Cairhien to investigate Liandrin's disappearance? Since all the 'known' Seanchan were killed off in the Battle of Falme, the show may have the Seanchan take s3 (and s4?) off as they regroup before their next offensive.

ep3: They've put a pretty heavy-hitter in as ep3 in s2 and it seems likely they would try to do the same in s3 because of the way that Prime drops shows, so let's call ep3 the Rhuidean episode, where we learn about the Aiel's past and Mat finds a doorway. Moiraine goes through the silver rings, learning about what will happen to her in the future, and writes some letters (alt: Moiraine goes through the doorway in Rhuidean as well and learns it there?).

ep4: Rand & co travel towards Alcair Dal (skipping Cold Rocks Hold); If the White Tower Schism didn't happen in ep1, maybe it happens here. I'm going to tentatively put the Coup here. Rahvin arrives in Caemlyn, if he exists?

ep5: Alcair Dal & Rand trapping Asmodean as a teacher (with Lanfear's help). Couladin announces that he's the Car'a'carn and decides to march on Cairhien, and Rand already feels guilty about getting Lanfear to help him escape in 2x7 and her torching the city, so he's extra motivated to stop him.

ep6: Battle of the Two Rivers, so that Perrin will be able to start his cross-country road trip to meet back up with everyone else by the end of the season? Maybe including the 'trap' for Faile that happened in TDR and it makes Perrin realize that he has feelings for her, which he feels guilty about. Asmodean begins teaching Rand.

ep7: Nynaeve and Moghedien have a confrontation in Cairhien and Nynaeve manages to defeat Moghedien, causing her to flee (or maybe this is Nynaeve defeating Liandrin? We might want to keep Moggy scary for the moment). At the end of the episode, the Shaido Aiel have arrived to lay siege to the city.

ep8: Battle of Cairhien - Mat kills Couladin and forms the Band of the Red Hand; Lanfear finds out that Rand and Aviendha have... slept together? kissed? have feelings for each other? And Moiraine and Lanfear have their appointment at the docks when Lanfear loses it as she realizes that after all her work, Lews Therin/Rand is never going to love her the way that she wants him to.

Then, in the name of 'letting the characters spend more time together', Rand's friends maybe actually get to hang out with him in s4 before people split up again, giving us a situation where the whole group gets to reassemble to save Rand at Dumai's Wells? Hard to guess without knowing how much will get covered in s3. They've done a great job pulling in plot lines from various books so far.

s2 did an amazing job of having a handful of themes that they explored through multiple characters and storylines, so I expect that s3 will also have some themes that they will be using. Not sure what it might be yet though once we get our s3 trailer (in, like, a year or a year and a half, lol) we'll probably have a better idea, because Halsey's "Control" being used for the s2 trailer was INCREDIBLY accurate for some of s2's themes -- "who is in control?" and the idea of fear and control and trying to own someone's power were very much at play in s2.

So what character arcs might we see in s3?

I think we're going to see Moiraine & Lan firmly established as mentors to Rand throughout the season, doing their best to prepare him for the future. And then Rand is potentially going to lose both of them at the end of the season (since I think that the show might bring all the characters together at the end of the season again, we might even see Nynaeve "bonding Lan to save his life" at the end of s3).

In general, there's just... honestly gonna be so much Rand stuff that I will be absolutely overwhelmed (in a good way). TDR-TSR-TFoH are my favorite run of the books and there are just so parts of TSR that are SO good (and a lot of them are Rand).

Theory for Mat's arc in s3: I wonder if we're going to start with him choosing to take a bodyguard-type role for Rand (because of his guilt over the stabbening) and transition to taking a general/captain-role at the end of the season (which would involve more independence in the future when he needs to leave Rand's plotline) as the Maidens take over as Rand's bodyguards. TSR is such a good book for both Rand and Mat in general, so I'm really looking forward to what the show does because the show has invested so much in their relationship already.

I am so so curious about what dynamic will be established for Rand & Asmodean and how many of the other characters might know the truth about him. In the books, Moiraine reveals in her letter to Rand that she knew who he really was but agreed with Rand that perhaps there was no choice but to work with him, because she agrees that Rand needs the training.

I do think we'll see some vibes between Rand and Elayne in the first episode, but that they won't act on them. But Rand was clearly struck by Elayne tenderly healing him with the sunlight in her hair and I do think we'll get some follow-up on that moment in ep1.

We'll also be getting Rand and Egwene pulling away from each other as romance partners (but perhaps settling into being trusted friends?). And I agree with @markantonys that it makes the most sense to have Rand & Aviendha as Rand's first established romance post-Egwene, because of the way the plotlines are set-up (Aviendha is actually going to be around Rand all season) and because she comes from a culture that leaves space for adding additional partners, so you don't need to use the misunderstanding loophole for Elayne and then Min to be added to the relationship in the future.

Perrin is going to come face-to-face with his guilt and grief over his wife's death when he goes back to the Two Rivers. Especially when he begins to catch feelings for Faile. We'll also see him training in TAR with Hopper. We'll see the continuation of his struggle with Dain. I do wonder if Dain might die at the end of s3, for similar reasons to why Renna, Seta, & Suroth died at the end of s2, leaving room for Galad to become the main Young Whitecloak figure in the future. Because the Whitecloaks spend several books not really being relevant in the middle part of the series.

Given how Nynaeve struggled with her block this season and it's been a real obstacle for her, one that she can't handwave away by doing the Bruce Banner "I'm always angry" thing like she kinda does in the books, I think that her main struggle this upcoming season is going to be trying to break her block and that they might even have her succeed at the end of the season against Moghedien -- much like s2 featured Egwene, Mat, & Moiraine coming into their powers (or back into their powers for Moiraine), s3 may see Nynaeve, Rand, & Perrin doing that.

The fact that Siuan disagreed so strongly with Moiraine in 2x7 makes me feel that it's more likely that she will survive the coup, because now she has tons of space for a character growth arc once she's struggling with actually dealing with her own stubborn Two Rivers person in the form of Egwene.

This will be Elayne's first season as an established member of the group -- one of the reasons that I think we'll get a set-up episode at the start of the season is that it makes sense to establish what her place is within the group. And then if Thom is in her storyline, we'll be able to explore a lot of her feelings about being the Daughter-Heir and her relationship with her mother, even if Morgase isn't shown on-screen.

Given that we killed off* all the 'known' Seanchan, I wonder if that means that we'll be taking a break from them in seasons 3&4, and then have them return at the end of s5(?), after Mat, Nynaeve, Elayne, and Lan have all gone to Ebou Dar (maybe Egeanin's plotline is shifted to Ebou Dar and we see that being explored at the start of s5 before the bulk of the Seanchan attack at the end?).

(* well, Suroth might not be dead, since we didn't actually see her die and she might have gotten rescued from the water, so she might be existing in a quantum state -- dead if they can't get the actress back later on but alive if they can)

We had a LOT of plotlines in s2 -- five major plotlines (Rand, Mat, and Perrin each got their own, while Egwene & Nynaeve and Moiraine & Lan did some sharing) plus we had the villain plotlines.

I’m guessing that we’ll only have three main plotlines in s3, which will give them all a bit more breathing room — we’ll have Rand & co in the Waste; Perrin & co in the Two Rivers; and Nynaeve & co doing a version of Tanchico. I think that the White Tower coup is likely to be a plotline for one-three episodes rather than something that spans the entire season.

And now, just for fun, a WoT s2 speculation scorecard! How well did I do?

I'll go backwards in time, so starting with my most recent speculation (that I did based on the 2x8 trailer that aired post 2x7).

That shot of Rand asking "who are you?" would be to that lovely shot of Elayne with sunlight in her hair: Correct!

Lanfear and Ishamael will fall apart while the Two Rivers kids stick together: Correct!

Elayne and Nynaeve will have to separate due to only have one sul'dam outfit: Wrong!

Hopper is going to die; Perrin will kill Daddy Bornhald in retaliation: Correct!

I had, like, three different guesses for the Horn situation so I'm not giving myself any credit there, lol

Turok will die by channeling, not by sword: Correct!

Moiraine and Lan will free damane as their plotline for this episode: Wrong!

Speculation for 2x7 made after trailer that came out after 2x6:

I do a lot of vague spec, the first firm thing I say without as much waffling is that Rand will be put under 'house arrest' by Siuan: Correct!

Mat saw Rand get taken by Lan & co: Wrong!

Lanfear and/or Ishamael arranges the fire in Foregate to free Rand from his 'house arrest' by the Aes Sedai: Correct!

Egwene gets to socialize with other damane: Wrong!

Speculation for 2x6-2x8 based on imdb listings for the last three episodes:

again, I do a lot of waffling and 'maybe this, maybe that', my first solid spec is that Liandrin's son would die in 2x6: Correct!

I did think we would get the royal wedding, so I will mark that: Wrong!

Natti Cauthon would appear as part of Ishy messing with Mat: Correct!

I thought the White Tower would be a location in these last three episodes: Wrong!

Yacissa will get killed by the Black Ajah: Wrong! (very happy to be wrong; I LOVE her)

Lanfear will help Rand out as his presence creates a wedge between Lanfear and Ishmael: ...kinda? I mean, she was Team Rand the second she learned Rand existed, lol.

Rand will leave Cairhien via Waygate: Correct!

Maigan will be Pura: Wrong! (no one is Pura, at least not now, and Maigan is very dead)

Loial will get to visit Egwene in the 'kennels': Wrong!

Egwene won't be freed until 2x8: Correct!

The 2x8 cold open will focus on LTT & Ishamael: Correct!

Ishamael will experience a painful reversal of expectations in 2x8 as his plans fall to pieces: Correct!

I also speculated here that Perrin would kill Bornhald in this version but I already counted that one above.

Uno will reappear as one of the Heroes of the Horn: Correct!

Speculation for 2x4 based on the first three episodes:

Moiraine doesn't already know Rand is in Cairhien: Wrong!

Lan will show the Lanfear poem to Alanna & co: Wrong!

Liandrin will tell Nynaeve that Perrin & co were captured by the Seanchan: Correct!

Logain was deliberately placed in Cairhien to lure Rand there: Correct!

Before we got the episode titles but after the trailer came out:

Siuan's trip to Cairhien occurs in episode 6: Correct!

Rand will still be wandering around the countryside when he meets Selene: Wrong!

Moiraine and Lan will be researching at Verin's in 2x1: Correct!

Rand and Selene's main episode will be ep2: Wrong!

The shot of Lan on Mandarb in the woods will be in Nynaeve's Accepted Test: Correct!

Nynaeve's Accepted Test will happen in ep3: Correct!

Moiraine and Rand reunite in ep4: Correct! (wrong about how/why though)

Perrin meets the Seanchan in ep5: Wrong!

Perrin meets Aviendha in ep5: Correct!

Rand meets Logain in ep6: Wrong!

"We get the New Spring flashback scene, see Moiraine & Siuan happy and young, then hear Gitara's Foretelling": Close! (I guessed it for ep6)

Verin will be in Perrin's plotline: Wrong!

Liandrin will be confirmed as a darkfriend in ep6: Close! (it was ep5)

Egwene, Nynaeve, & Elayne will spend the first 5 episodes in the White Tower and the last 3 in Falme: Close! (it's more 4 in WT; 1 traveling; 3 Falme)

I did a huge post of How Does Mat Get To Falme, which ended up being hilariously incorrect as "Lanfear has him bonked over the head and then Travels him there" was not on my radar, lol. But my favored method included him reuniting with Rand in Cairhien, so I'm glad that part still happened.

Anyway, I didn't do so awful in my predictions, I think.

(In terms of 'accidental predictions', I did write a fic involving Rand being tied to a bed in Cairhien by his lover literally months before we had any clue it would be happening in the show, - and while I'm talking about randomly accidentally being a Prophet in my fics: in Voice, I had Lanfear (who we had not yet met in the show) giving solid relationship advice - "That's fear talking, not fact" & I had this line for Mat: "Maybe Mat was destined to be a failure and a disappointment, like his father. But he wouldn't just lie down and let it happen." which is essentially what it feels like we just got from him in 2x8.)

#wot s3 speculation #wot speculation #butterfly watches wot #wot #wheel of time #wot on prime #wot show spoilers #wot prime spoilers #wot s2 spoilers #wheel of time s2 spoilers #wot 2x8 spoilers #wot book spoilers #knife of dreams #wot speculation scorecard

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onaperduamedee · 10 months

Text

Notes on Knife of Dreams

This is my favourite prologue of the series so far, blood and ashes!

Galad immediately becomes a favourite if he is willing to go against a superior to have him stand trial and to fight him for assaulting his step-mom.

The way Valda talks about Morgase, Galad needs to turn him into a bloody paper garland.

During the fight, Galad talks about hearing and feeling everything in a way that’s close to how women describe embracing the source. Food for thoughts.

We've seen different types of channelling so far, but only one type of martial art?

Galad killing Valda??! Becoming Captain-Commander? Rebelling against the Seanchan?!? CONSIDERING ALLIANCE WITH THE AES SEDAI?!? Hell yeah!

"Soldiers’ hours made farmers’ hours seem restful" - spoken like a true soldier who has no idea what he's talking about. Shut up.

Ituralde leading the resistance against the Seanchan has all my respect though.

Wait, so Suroth had nothing to do with Egeanin's trap? That was the Seeker?

Everyone is trying to fight the Seanchan because they ARE the bigger threat atm, and Rand is genuinely considering working with them. Rand, don't do it!

Although I am beginning to suspect the group who will meet Rand is not Suroth and her party.

But still, Rand! They leash people who use the One Power! You cannot go anywhere near them! This is stressful.

I must admit Semirhage wiping out the entire Seanchan imperial family is satisfying considering Seanchan colonialism. RJ will always introduce bigger sharks, especially against groups who considered themselves big sharks.

We have now the Highest for the Red! First Selector for the Blue, First Weaver for the Yellow, Captain-General for the Green, Head Clerk for the Brown, and First Reasoner for the White. Nice! I am loving these details!

I haven't commented on it but Elaida's choice to call back sisters who were exiled to fill in the ranks, especially in powerful positions whatever their history with the Tower, is fascinating. This reminds me a lot of the behaviour of certain political parties losing their grip on power.

No one knows Rand healed saidin, it's frustrating me to no end! It's such a feat! And no one knows!

Loving the meta behind Yukiri wondering whether the scene depicted on the tapestry happened and the need of a weave to keep it from falling apart.

"Yes, red. I thought it might have turned green when I wasn’t looking." - Yukiri is the best, I laughed out loud.

"Pevara exchanged looks with Yukiri, then said, 'This is the less urgent, Seaine?'" - I love the BA hunting party so much. They're a hoot.

Seaine, Yukiri and Pevara are actually quite efficient given how fraught the situation is in the White Tower. And I dig the info sharing between the Ajahs: collaboration, it works!

So, the food rotting is the DO's doing? I really enjoyed the White discussing it like it's a very theoretical problem not affecting entire nations. Tbf, locked up as they are by Elaida, they probably don't know what's happening outside.

About AS as a whole: a) they're a millenia-old institution in dire need of reform, and that's even before we realise that b) they're infiltrated to the core by agents looking to sow discord and destroy the WT, c) they've been taken over by right-wing radicals. It is what makes the depiction of the White Tower mesmerising: the story shows us the White Tower at their lowest, in their deepest turmoil, when they are cornered and have no choice but to evolve or simply die out. Light, it's so current!

NON, Alviarin is onto Yukiri and Doesine, nope, nope, nope.

Ohhh, Galina has been captured by Perrin and is trying to wriggle her way out of Shaido captivity by manipulating them!

Perrin is a broken record repeating "wife." It's a tad silly.

You know what, Galina gets points for being one of the only POV characters respecting Berelain. She can call Perrin a fool to her heart's content because atm he is one.

Berelain hitting Galina, hard, because Perrin didn't want to was perfect.

Oh, the tension between the White Tower AS is THICK. Of course Egwene picks up pretty fast how degraded the situation is among the sisters.

Hell no, they have Leane too! Thinking about her being put to the question again is breaking my heart.

"Whether or not she had managed to do well as Amyrlin, she would die in a manner fitting for the Amyrlin Seat." - I love Egwene so much. She is fast becoming one of my favourite characters ever. Her arc is truly unbelievable.

I literally had Garnet singing "Stronger than You" playing in my head while reading this scene. Egwene is unbreakable.

"Whatever you do, you’ll never make me deny who I am” - I adore Egwene. I now have a very strong need to see queer Egwene. You cannot give me a character saying "I am what I am" and not make them gay. It's forbidden. Another parallel to Rand too.

The confrontation with Silviana was so tense! Really looking forward to seeing Egwene going against her and playing Elaida. Her thoughts going to Siuan and Leane though. I am going to scream. My love for this trio is all-consuming and terrifying.

"She was carrying the battle into the heart of the Tower itself. If she had had lips there, she would have smiled." - FUCK THEM UP YOU AIEL-HEARTED WONDER

Egwene, I would die for you on a battlefield.

The joy of having a Siuan POV - her strength, her worry, her competence - is somewhat marred by the constant thinking about Gareth. She spares time to moon over him, and then cannot stop to help the injured because her news are urgent? It's exhausting.

I cannot fathom the strength it takes Siuan to do what she does against women who are so much stronger and stand so much higher than her. Her willingness to put aside her pride and fear to do what needs to be done is astounding. Truly a pillar.

Faolain spilled the beans to Lelaine, but Siuan is keeping her cool. Lelaine with her machinations to become the next Amyrlin will get Egwene killed.

Wait, so Grays act as external judges going from villages to villages? That's fascinating!

Beonin, what do you think you're doing? Even your warder thinks you’re a fool.

So dead people are just appearing out of nowhere? Cool, cool, cool.

Egwene's plan of shutting down ship trading with cuendillar chains was brilliant, even if she was betrayed.

Look, my president was elected on the promise to save us from the extremes, has then started ruling with decrees, crushed public dissent with violence, painted opponents as terrorists and requisitioned striking workers to clean the capital streets where garbage is piling up. To say Elaida's reign of terror hits a little too close to home is putting it mildly.

Also fuck Beonin so hard for betraying Egwene and the Rebels, and revealing the rediscovered weaves. Whatever blood is spilled afterward is on her hands.

I did not have Aran'gar seducing Graendal on my bingay card, but here we are.

I'm surprised it took the Forsaken this long to set out to kill Mat and Perrin.

By my count, only Be'lal, Asmodean and Rahvin have been permanently killed among the Forsaken.

I am bloody angry with Perrin rn: giving the Two Rivers to Seanchan, really? Even if it means condemning to slavery some of his people? I thought his devotion to Faile was moving, but screw him, that's exactly what Tylin did.

Berelain MVP as always. What a great leader she is.

As with Isendre, I take no satisfaction whatsoever in the treatment Galina gets from the Shaido, even if she's loathsome: it's brutal, dehumanising and gendered. I think the Aiel rapport with extreme punishment is gratuitous and voyeuristic, and it’s putting me off.

Rolan and Faile... On one hand, I am glad he has Faile's back and he seems kind; on the other any woman would run from him as far as possible because his insistence is so creepy.

Also, I wish the motif of romantic captive/holder wasn't one in this saga.

At least, Arrela is sleeping with a Maiden to get her protection? Gay problematic is better than no gay.

Also, the wind, the ripple; what is going on? If this is the book of weird omen, I am all in.

And Faile has the rod! And followers! I knew she would find a way, crafty as she is.

Now, these are actually the first Mat chapters I found underwhelming? Luca is again getting annoying; I don't really care about Domon and Egeanin; what's the deal with Noal; the courtship with Tuon is entertaining, but not enough to justify the pacing.

And the Aes Sedai drama is exhausting because Mat, you lovable jerk, you are showing more sympathy toward a slave owner than her victims. Are they infuriating? Yes! Is Mat sensible in any of his interactions with or his treatment of them? No!

Also spanking Joline... He beats her first and asks questions later when channelling was the sul'dam's fault and it was HIS choice to put them in this set-up. They ARE annoying, yes! Last time I checked he wasn't spanking his manservants or Luca.

At least, Joline will teach the sul'dam? Not a great idea considering what the Aes Sedai went through and the sul'dam's attitude, but it's better than letting the sul’dam believe they are still the AS minders. No one had issues with Rand staying 1000 leagues away from AS because of Dumai’s wells.

Aludra creating canons to destroy the Seanchan: hell yeah, organise that resistance, you firecracker!

How hilarious that Mat keeps seeing Rand having sex with Min though.

The horse ride with Tuon was cute, and Mat's heart to heart with Setalle refreshing, but light, those chapters are slow. He still has so many interesting relationships with women.

The confrontation between the AS and Tuon sums up what makes Mat both infuriating and endearing: it's sexism and lack of empathy, until the women are attacked frontally and he defends them. His first impulses are always that of a jerk, but he course-corrects.

Is it fun to read? Not always, and there's something to say about reproducing sexist behaviour as is in a fantasy setting. But it makes him a realistic character.

Also Tuon can scram: enslaving people because they are annoying? DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF

Shiota was terrifying! I loved the way the horror just erupted out of nowhere. And the scenes afterwards were lovely. They've accidentally become such a dysfunctional little family.

I am glad Juilin will not forget that Egeanin owned slaves.

I am really curious about the suggestions Mat will chase the Seanchan away. How will that unfold if he is married to their empress?

The Egeanin/Domon pairing heavily suggests that he will change her, but it isn't enough to change a whole nation.

MOIRAINE'S LETTER

SHE'S ALIVE SOMEWHERE WITH THE SNAKE AND FOX PEOPLE

HELL YEAH WE'RE GETTING A MAT-FLAVORED KATABASIS TO RESCUE MOIRAINE!

That also explains all the reflecting Mat has been doing concerning the Finn and what they did to him.

Light, one of the elements of a katabasis - a descent into the underworld - is that people don't always come back right... Moiraine, my heart.

Really curious about the inspiration for the Seanchan invasion because what RJ is describing - the population's acceptance, the government's obedience, the imprisonment of a minority - is VERY reminiscent of Collaboration across Europe during WWII.

The visit in a Hell was fun in its urgency. Even if it's very much the Whedon syndrome where pretty and tiny women have no trouble wrecking trained assassins thrice their size, I like that we did get to see Tuon practise a different martial art.

Misreading Tuon as Thom and vice versa when they are in the same chapter certainly makes things interesting.

Between Vane sent to kill Mat, the gholam reappearing and the Seanchan after a false Tuon, they better get the hell out of the circus. At last!

Perrin trusting Bawler after the shit he put Moiraine through is beyond grating. And Perrin witnessing a poor man dying horrifically and showing not an ounce of empathy or sense is A Lot.

What a thrilling chapter of Perrin on errands with the Seanchan!

It's crushing how thoroughly this middle stretch of books spoiled Perrin for me. I wouldn't go as far as character assassination, but he started off as my favourite of the boys and now he's just a bad friend, leader, ally to the Light and even husband.

And back to the Caemlyn siege!

Again, Elayne, having Rand's babies was 100% your choice, not Rand's. Not a mistake, not only Rand's fault.

On Elayne and the bargain: it's ironic because Morgase gave a whole lot of Andor to the Whitecloaks when held prisoner.

Elayne can fuck off for pressing her soldiers to kill retreating enemies and getting themselves killed while being a hothead on the battlefield because Min's viewing protects her. Why is she so blood-thirsty? Is the throne worth the blood and gold?

"Smiling, Aviendha turned her face up to let the rain run down her cheeks. 'I love to watch water falling from the sky.'" - Aviendha is so cute, seriously. I wish she had more to do than stand around and laugh or scowl or hug Elayne

Like with Min and Siuan, I really wish Elayne would not bemoan the Kin's newfound backbone. They deserve to stand straighter after everything they went through.

The Kin are as always very badass for managing to recruit 10,000 men for Elayne.

I love that the Kin have had a dozen professions because of their longevity and needed to move around to stay low. They are such a great addition to this universe. They will do a lot of good to the AS as a whole too.

Oh good, after competing in the last book over which of the two has the slowest arc, Elayne and Perrin are now competing for least empathy, excellent. Elayne wants to send the damane back to slavery and justifies it by her hatred of the Seanchan.

It's representative of the way some left-leaning people think about fighting oppression: hatred for the oppressor (the 1%, racists) but it doesn't extend to help toward the victims (supporting fiscal reforms, harsher sentencing against hate crime). Come on, Elayne, I know you have A Lot on your plate now, but you are better than this! If you managed to be the voice of reason for a whole journey to Tear with a traumatised Egwene and a drifting Nynaeve, you can handle this better, I know you can.

Vandene wears her sister's clothes and perfume while chasing her killer. Light, I am distraught.

"She had to watch Vandene perhaps destroying herself, and worse, make use of it." - oh, the gut-punch. Great parallel with Rand too.

At least this conundrum with the Aes Sedai and the Sea Folk is compelling. Elayne and Nynaeve made a bargain promising something they had no way of delivering, without much choice, and now they have to deal with the consequences.

Elayne, Birgitte and Aviendha are such a comedic trio: I have great expectations for the show.

The narrative is laying it THICK that pregnant women are unreliable and erratic in one of the worst bouts of sexism this book has displayed in a while.

"they did not think they already knew something of how to use a blade" - I appreciate the shade here.

I'm so frustrated by this arc: it employs Elayne in the way least fitting to her strong points. She's a Mat-type character in her chaos, with lots of heart, but her struggle with power is clearly echoing Perrin here and I don’t think it works.

Aviendha discovering her Talent with ter'angreal and the proof coming in the form of an e-book with an unbelievable library, along with the nice little nod to the difficulties of translation and the way it's a meta commentary on prophecies, was A+.

"How can you say you have nothing to give? You’ve given me everything." - The Aviendha/Elayne farewell was so moving and MoLan-coded. But I can't say I am displeased to see Aviendha move on to greener pastures where plot happens faster.

I know this won't happen but I hope the show just discards Elayne as Rand's love interest entirely. Their romance is the least developed of the three, it looks more like crush than love, and the chemistry pales in comparison to Min/Rand and Aviendha/Elayne.

I hope Birgitte is okay. With the bond, she should not be that tired.

Elayne is going to lose the mercenaries. Hiring them in the first place was a bad idea: Amyrilla also has mercenaries so it's merely a battle of who has the deepest pockets now.

Just give Mellar the boot if you don't want to arrest him! You are all needlessly endangering everyone.

The palace shifting is a really nice touch. This book has some delicious tiny worldbuilding elements showing the magic itself is wonky, like in TSR.

Birgitte and her Map room is such a neat choice and actually a great device to talk about Birgitte without doing so: her memories are fading, leaving only the newer memories, as the floor mosaic of Caemlyn is being progressively replaced.

"You were always expected to have an answer, to find one. That was what it meant to be Aes Sedai." - That's why people are like that when they learn AS are only humans. Also reminds me of my TDR notes: this is about kids understanding adulthood and that adults don’t have all the answers.

Elayne at last questions if maybe gaining the throne will cost too much to Andor. Siuan and Egwene were willing to let Elaida win if it meant saving the Tower.

Her gaggle of kid allies remain hilarious though.

The BA is now taking out Kin. No! I need whoever is responsible to be personally handled by Vandene.

Naean is also looking drawn and tired? Is something also happening to people's mind, like back in Tear with Ishamael?

Loial and his book! Of course he is interviewing Rand and Rand is underplaying his accomplishments.

Moiraine's name is written in fire inside Rand's skull: learning she may be alive will absolutely not fuck him up.

So, Rand is connected to Moridin because their balefire beams crossed? I was not expecting that.

Nynaeve replaced Moiraine as his personal Aes Sedia and it's so endearing. I am glad he has her by his side.

Man, I enjoy Verin and Cads' weird dynamic. Logain and Rand are at each other's throat like two roosters and need to cool down.

"Her knitting, a shapeless lump that might have been anything, sat in her lap" - I laughed. What a detail to drag, Rand.

Min, you're being childish: Rand knows he will die. Although apparently Rand has asked the Finn how to survive and there is a way out? Interesting.

I feel sorry for Loial. He clearly doesn't want marriage now. Why is everyone forcing him?

Awwwwww Loial wishing he had an AS with him to face his mom. Don't worry, they would make things worse.

The way he learned courage from humans though is filling my heart with joy. He has such a heartfelt subdued arc and now he will talk before his people!

The new weaves, LTT seizing saidin and trying to burn out Rand during the attack... Oof, a lot is happening to Rand.

"You’re harder than I ever was, Lews Therin said. Suddenly he giggled. If you’re not me, then who are you?" - wow, I am LOVING this.

Love the conceit of Alivia being so strong and old that no one knows what to do with her. Her destiny to help Rand die makes her figure all the more ominous.

Min seeing all sorts of things for Moiraine? How many viewings did Min have about her exactly? TELL ME

"Maybe it was just Aes Sedai concealment." - maybe it's the fact you should not require absolute obedience from anyone?

Using people as pawns is now second nature to Rand, Egwene, Perrin, Elayne. Only Mat and Nynaeve don't do it.

"She, at least, was one he did not have to worry about. Elza was fanatical in her devotion." - Rand, she's a DF. You're blindsided by her devotion to you. Be sensible.

Thank the Light Bashere is here. This meeting with the Seanchan is most definitely a trap.

A NYN POV AT LAST YES PLEASE MY GAL

"Moiraine used to say a headache was sign she had been channelling too much. That’s dangerous." - again, fascinated by this undercurrent in their marriage. How very Daphné du Maurier of Jordan.

"Greens! They simply could not be trusted with men!" - between Alanna, Myrelle, Elayne and Cads, they've certainly earned their reputation. Not on the same scale, obviously, but yeah, the Green Ajah needs to do serious education on bonding.

"his place was with her, not dying alone in a futile private war with the Shadow" / "She could try to make sure he survived, though." - No comment.

From wherever she is, Moiraine is mentally kissing Nynaeve on the mouth and praising her, as she should.

If the books had time, they would delve into what it means for Nyn to marry someone with so much baggage, and the time, adjustment and complexity behind such a match.

I've touched on this in one of my metas for the show before reading the books, but I love that Nynaeve has such a profound and sincere sense of community and duty, even more so than Egwene, which is saying a lot considering how dedicated Egwene is.

Nyn understands perfectly why Lan's commitment to Malkier matters, even understood Lan's commitment to Moiraine when she was around. But despite this understanding, she still meets Moiraine in feeling that Lan shouldn't let this commitment kill him.

There's no hypocrisy here: it's very much her saying "both matter; we are not going to sacrifice one for the other"

It's that same trait that made her push away Lan when he was ready to break his vows to Moiraine back in Tear and hats off to her.

"yet the land did not change greatly in two or three hundred years" - why do I feel this will lead to Tarmon Gai'don changing geography again?

"'Kiss me. [...] That wasn’t an order. I just want to kiss my husband.'" -

I dislike the whole Sea Folk obedience thing but that was SO cute!

One last night in Shienar: the show writers are sneaky.

Nyn leaving Lan in Saldaea to force him to ride all the way to Shienar is just SO good. She understood he cannot be trusted with looking after himself, so she will trick him into doing it, the fool man.

So men wearing the hadori carry "a reputation for sudden, unpredictable violence"? That is very interesting considering some of Lan's reflections and even Moiraine's behaviour in New Spring.

Many warders are essentially rehabilitated veterans.

They have different coins for different nations, but we haven't seen any mention of dialects? And what about the Aiel and the Seanchan being understandable? Do they all speak a language that's translated for the books like LOTR and westron?

Clever, Clever Nynaeve for travelling ahead of Lan to rouse the Malkieri, though it's funny to imagine her going from town to town in search of everyone with a Hadori before going back to healing everyone in the manor. She's the best.

Light, I've missed her POV. It's such a shame she was absent these last few books because she grew a lot in the meantime off-page. Instead of trying to overpower like she used to, she's far better at dissembling and not saying everything she thinks.

It obviously helps with Lan, but also with Cadsuane and Rand. With Lan, it's skirting manipulation, but she spent enough time with him - and with Moiraine's ghost - to realise he's not at a place where his death wish can be reasoned with for now. Healing will take time.

Oh, Rand's school led to the Locomotive rediscovery? This is making me emotional. He will change the world for the better, he will. It's truly a Renaissance!

"Lews Therin began to maunder on about taxes and money creating jobs" - okay, Ronald.

Again, not a fan of the depiction of Tear as not as beautiful as Caemlyn or Tar Valon, while pointing out the Tairens are brown-skinned and poor.

I love the detail of the merchant explaining silk can be made by worms.

Nope, please let Tear be spared the Seanchan, this city suffered enough.

Rand, you are sounding more and more like a tyrant ordering some people around and expecting total obedience, chill.

It's genuinely hard to see the lavish interiors while the Tairens are starving. It's not something Rand can fix without rebellion from nobles, but everywhere monarchy is depicted as a deeply flawed system bleeding nations (Caemlyn, Cairhien). This Age and Rand brought scientific and medical achievements in droves and magic hierarchy upheaval, but yet not an ounce of democratic progress so far. It's so bizarre!

If it isn't my favourite het couple, Darlin "himbo but noble" Sisnera and Caraline "girl in a bar restroom but noble" Damodred.

I like that Alanna gets to display her tactical knowledge as a Green Ajah, even if it's very brief.

Rand, I love you, but your imperial tendencies are showing.

So Merana, Bera and Rafaela did a good job with the negotiations with the Rebels in Tear. I’m relieved Rand is learning to delegate too.

Cads counting to get Rand to stop the disrespect: he should absolutely show more restraint as a leader, as the Dragon Reborn, otherwise his enemies will use it against him. Her advice is sound, even if she is patronising.

"When the terms you offer are accepted, hold to them.” - Rand, would you really starve the city even more because the nobles rebelled against you, a foreign leader who took power with an army of Aiel?!? Do you hear yourself?

"And would you marry a king, Caraline?” / “I will have to see you in it before I could answer that." - Darlin is a himbo king: I support him 100%. Caraline and he remain sickeningly cute and so charming together. They're by far the best nobles around.

Yessss, Rand is rallying troops for Tarmon Gai'don at last!

"More than that, we survived Cadsuane Melaidhrin, and I doubt anyone else here could do that.” - Harine and Shalon really went on a Hurin-like journey of epic proportion, didn't they?

Oh, cool, the Atha'an Miere are also flogging disobeying Aes Sedai. I would really appreciate it if ONE culture was not obsessed with spanking and whipping.

Oooooh, Logain is delivering the summon to the Sea Folk!

"It was not that he tried to dishonor anyone, yet he cared little for the honors of others." - like you humiliate AS sent to teach you? Self-awareness is the least shared trait in these books. Logain is just giving them a taste of their own medicine

Light, the Amayar after the Choeden Kal melted on Tremalking... That is truly horrifying. And so soon after the deaths in Ebou Dar and the Seanchan massacre too. How many Ath'an Miere died already?

I appreciate so many characters telling us the Last Battle is coming but Tarmon Gai'don is still three THICK books away.

"A brief interlude with tales of romance and adventure was much preferable to contemplating utter futility and the failure of what was by its very nature unfailing." - The meta of Romanda reading Birgitte's tale to escape from her reality is superb.

Of course, Romanda thought Egwene was Siuan's puppet, wrongly.

"No one has a leash on Egwene al’Vere. She is intelligent, observant, quick to learn and deft. She may become one of the great Amyrlins." - she already is. I love Egwene so much.

"That relationship was abhorrent." - I'm with you on this, Romanda.

I like Tiana: she's clear-eyed. The newer recruits are fast learners and thus priceless novices well worth the rules bent. Romanda is just the old guard bucking

Myrelle bonded Llyw to save him? The show is definitely merging her and Alanna.

Nacelle testing a weave to sense men channelling! The agreement with Asha'man! Eben helping uncover Halima! Oh, the little Hall scenes are my favourites. The drama! The tension! The theatrics!

Egwene teaching a lesson to the Accepted who wanted to teach her a lesson and keeping the novices in their place is just so bloody satisfying. All the senseless beatings and the silent resistance against Silviana make me so bloody proud of her!

So relieved Leane is okay and the Tower sees her as an AS which grants her a modicum of comfort and protection.

Screams in "Egwene and Leane trying to sow the seeds of mutiny one sister, accepted and novice at a time while prisoners", holy shit

Egwene becomes an Amyrlin for the novices, advising, comforting them, and extending this quiet support to sisters and Accepted and I love her so very much.

Laras truest ally. She'll help Egwene like she did Leane and Siuan, I tell you.

"Eventually she would teach them what she was." - EGWENE Also, again with the queer vibes. Her defiance in the face of violent rigidity and labels feels very gay.

She's apparently mediating pillow friends’ fights too.

"You’ve been kidnapped and brought aboard a sinking ship.” -

Egwene dodges Alviarin's attempts to ensnare her and absolutely dominates her conversation with Mattin.

I just love seeing her fine mind at work. Like Siuan, she's so incredibly smart.

Aes Sedai bound by the 3 oaths who swear obedience can reason their way out to an extent? That's not great for Rand...

Doesine finally interacts with Egwene, Beonin folds, Silviana talks, the novices bow... Easily the best chapter of the books so far.

I feel sorry for the women of WoT: even a woman with smaller breasts will get a description of her breasts and how doing anything will have her boobs pop out of the dress. Amazing. Tits in this universe obey to entirely different laws of physics

Elaida is a study in unravelling. And the echoes to Rand all the more delicious. This is what he risks, if he doesn't tread lightly: disobedience, allies at each other's throat, spies and DF manoeuvring in the background.

I am very confused about the amount of PDA and private discussion in public we are suddenly getting for various couples: Tuon asking for a kiss was so out there.

Of course, Mat dislikes nobles except Talmanes and Tuon. You old romantic.

I really, really wish Mat was warier of Tuon and Selucia. He's smarter than letting an invader know so much about his plans. Overall, the tolerance for a coloniser who enslaves people and slaughters others is just staggering.

Talmanes being unable to understand Tuon because of the slurring is hilarious.

The Band of the Red Hand might be the only army I feel an attachment to. Their devotion to Mat is quite moving.

My big issue with Perrin's arc is that the narrative camps on its position that He is the main character when Faile is the one driving the narrative. So we get him mostly waiting for Faile, and we get little of her POV.

Not a fan of Perrin hoping the tea will be strong enough when infused cold. It's a sound plan but you've been waiting for days! You had time to experiment! He's Ta'veren, I guess.

And Seonid adding on to the list of badass Aes Sedai. A trouper!

At least Perrin has more sense than Mat keeping the Aes Sedai and Seanchan apart. Respect to Annoura for broadcasting "fuck you, with feelings" vibes toward Tylee while the woman talks unchallenged about enslaving more people. I'd have bitten her.

Again, screw Perrin for making the personal sacrifice of letting Seanchan enslave people if it means saving Faile. He's this close to jumping the shark for me.

The ripples are so unsettling, I love it.

Seeing Rand donning his best garbs to impress the Seanchan... Moiraine would be proud.

I feel so bad for Rand. There was a time Min was a genuine source of comfort and now she's frankly overbearing and treats him like a child.

Oooooh, I thought the trap was set by Tuon's sister and was not expecting Semirhage at all! Also, Rand lost his hand? Wth?!?

So, tattoos can be restored through healing? I am not taking any notes here, none at all.

Semirhage revealing Rand's voices to everyone will not help his standing at all. Thankfully, Asha'man and Aes Sedai are getting closer which means more trust for him from these two groups.

"I am Cadsuane Melaidhrin. I look forward to long talks with you." - she's so hardcore.

Well, now he's aware the Seanchan have male a'dam, thank the Light. He'll be more careful.

Frankly, the way Mat treats Teslyn and Tuon as a "both sides" issue is so off-putting. One is literally trying to enslave the other.

I get such satisfaction from seeing Mat impress Tuon and Teslyn with his military tactics. Also, I love it when the plan succeeds thanks to collaboration.

As evident as Galina's treachery was, the escapees encouraging Morgase to channel was lovely. I’m curious about how Morgase wasn’t affected by the tea, but perhaps they drink from a different source as servants?

I don't like the Asha'man being overworked and exhausted. They should unionise.

What is so frustrating about Galina's obvious trap is that the main characters are constantly suspicious of Aes Sedai EXCEPT when they should be.

And Perrin and Faile are back together! At last! I do appreciate that Faile would have gotten herself out without Perrin, even if it failed toward the end.

Did Morgase faint because of the tea in the water or because she overdrew the One Power?

Perrin wanting to execute Galina on the spot, leaving all the Shaido Wise Ones in slavery... I feel sick. I genuinely hate him right now. I am glad he feels what the Seanchan do is disgraceful; it will be a great comfort to the people they captured.

I am so tired of people stripping their prisoners, so tired.

At Last the Shaido are leaving. I feel a little sorry for Galina: being trialled and executed would have been a mercy compared to what she will experience at the hands of Therava.

I won't comment on the expedition to High Moon Street because that was so foolish it left me speechless. That was even more clownish than the Far Madding outing.

Adeleas went to the Moiraine stabbing school of dealing with DF which I salute.

They cut down oaks hundreds of years old to make gateway grounds? Are we in Isengard?

Siuan and Egwene behave far more like adults sisters than Birgitte and Elayne: these two are like a much older sibling having to look after her disaster teenage sister.

A Birgitte POV chapter! What a delight! Like Berelain, she really is the MVP. Also Dyelin. Yes, I still ship them.

I love seeing her perspective on losing her memories. It makes her friendship with Mat of the 100 lives all the more touching.

Elayne's capture, the mercenaries, Arymilla's attack feel like such a waste: the bloodbath is a direct consequence of Elayne's recklessness. It's immensely frustrating because it's the same mistake made during the BA hunt back in book 2 to 5 except this time she’s a leader so her people die. She should know better.

The ending of the Caemlyn siege and succession felt rather rushed? Everything happened all at once and so suddenly after books of dawdling as if Elayne was ta'veren. Which she probably is tbh. I didn't enjoy this arc as much as Egwene’s or Rand's political intrigues so I'm glad it's done and she’s Queen at last. It was a fun concept, but I’m not sure about the execution.

Karede tracking Tuon and the marriage were rather cute. It might be one of the most well-developed romance in the books, oddly. I appreciate that Mat has been defeating the Seanchan for weeks now, so his leniency with Tuon is somewhat mitigated.

I get the Aludra hype now. I love a good resistance fighter and she is amazing.

"I think,” Joline said slowly. “Yes, I feel in danger, now." - The Aes Sedai are so funny.

That last battle was well set-up with a nice use of external POV and the humour in Mat's chapters is always a pleasure. His reluctance, about being a hero, a general, a husband, makes him really endearing too. He's very Nynaeve-like in his begrudging devotion. I just wish Mat wasn’t so at ease with the Seanchan.

How very Suroth of Suroth to be caught by Tuon in the epilogue though.

Pevara is extremely brave, extremely confident and extremely naïve to walk into the Black Tower like that.

As strongly as the book started, the ending wasn't as powerful as it could have been in my opinion. I would have preferred to end on Rand or Egwene whose final chapters felt more explosive. The Perrin, Elayne and even Mat plot conclusions felt a little like ticking boxes on a check list. They would have wowed me more had the plotlines not been stretched over several books. For example, LoC was very slow, but the conclusion at Dumai’s Well made it worth it for me.

It was still enjoyable and the Egwene chapters were some of the best I’ve read in a while, but we spent so much time on arcs with a foregone conclusion that at the end I didn't even care anymore.

And Nyn’s arc is still MIA. I thought that for a moment she would get something to do in the long run with Lan's ride but nope. She is shadowing Rand, but Cads is doing most of the counselling so far, and I don’t see the books introducing the kind of juicy conflict we got between Rand and Moiraine, if only because it would be repetitive. She also deserves to have an actual plotline that is about her character like Egwene and Elayne and not helping Rand.

I would be remiss in not mentioning this was RJ's last full book: when I started this journey, I wasn't particularly fond of his writing style, but I grew to enjoy his voice. I will miss his quasi photographic descriptions and impressionistic battles.

#the wheel of time #wot book spoilers #Wot book review #wot book journey #knife of dreams #remblai #I could edit and trim this but I'm already halway through The Gathering Storm #I am marching toward the Last Battle full steam ahead before september 1st #I don't have time for concision #also these are mostly for me so that I can read my notes when I need them #I didn't enjoy this one as much as I thought I would?#probably because I was expecting something close the pre-LOC pacing and it wasn't #it did contain my favourite chapter #ever #Honey in the tea you are a star #and we learn that ***** is alive which is a big win #hell yeah we're in for a katabasis

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