yes i'm rooting for m*leven breakup because byler is neat but mostly? i'm rooting for m*leven breakup for the sake of el and mike.

to me, their romance was always a puppy love born out of a combination of social pressures, naïve curiosity, and a lack of true understanding regarding intimacy and romantic love and what it really is. it was real in that they do truly, deeply care about each other and they are close friends, maybe even shared an attraction, but a maturing romance is so much more than that. they've grown up and out of being boyfriend/girlfriend, and that's okay! i think television/film needs to show more often that most of us don't have definite "soulmates" or first childhood loves that we spend our whole lives with. it doesn't mean these relationships meant nothing and didn't impact us, it just means they've run their course and that something else is in the cards, and this is part of life!

i've always felt el was at her best and most confident self when broken up with mike, discovering who she was and what she liked alongside another girl her age instead of just relying on mike for mentorship on how to live in the real world. she deserves more of an opportunity to find herself, her autonomy, and her independence, and to love who she is, and she's made it clear she's felt insecure in the relationship with mike because she isn't being loved and understood the way she wants, needs, and deserves from someone who is her partner.

also, it's okay if mike doesn't love her in "the way he should". he is not obligated to love her romantically and stay in a relationship with her just because she's a girl, because she "needed someone", or because he cares about her a lot. he shouldn't be pressured into a romance if it's not truly coming from his heart. he deserves freedom to find out and honour who he is, too, instead of just staying in his non-functional first relationship — one he got into as a child, essentially — and defining himself that way because it's what's expected when a boy and a girl are close. he loves her in some way, yes, but it's okay if he doesn't feel comfortable or secure being her boyfriend anymore, for whatever reason that is. he's felt insecure too, and that's valid and it matters.

they are their own people and are steadily growing and changing every day. they need time to figure out who those people are, and it's become clear (at least in my opinion) that those people aren't meant to be a couple at this stage.

they deserve freedom. they deserve to grow up and be authentic to themselves and not feel like they need to lie for the sake of a relationship. they deserve to move on from this version of their relationship that isn't making them happy and rekindle the best part of their bond: their strong, beautiful friendship. they don't have to be a couple if it doesn't make them stronger and better and happier people.

i think it would be healthy and wonderful for a show, especially one consumed frequently by young adults, to show a relationship starting, progressing, and ending on good terms in this way. sometimes things don't work out, and that is okay.

Personal opinion; I think the Duffers are doing a mistake by not promoting Byler as a possibility at all. I know some people are gonna say that it is because they are trying to keep Byler as a plot twist, but still, they can promote the idea of it without going too far.

We like to say that how the 'ElMikeWill' love triangle is not acknowledged as a love triangle by the GA, Melvins or other fans, but honestly? It is not that it is not acknowledged as a 'love triangle' by non-Bylers, it is that it is not acknowledged as a love triangle by the show, creators or writers. It is not promoted like how Stancy versus Jancy thing is promoted. Mike’s not conditioned as having to choose between El and Will. Honestly, If I were to make my audience get warm for the idea of Byler potentially happening, i would put content regarding it, would try to portray the situation as a love triangle, like ‘Which person Mike is going to choose?’ questions would be on media outlets. Remember that the Duffers still refer to Stancy versus Jancy thing as a love triangle, they portray it as a situation where Nancy has to choose someone, media outlets talk about the love triangle aspect. Whereas for Mike and El and Will, there isn’t something like that. Mike’s not conditioned as being in a love triangle where he has to choose. Will’s situation only gets referred to as relatable and him getting acceptance. They portray Mike and El as a legitimate couple without any question, etc. That’s not exactly portraying as ‘love triangle’ situation here.

Take this as a criticism towards how they're approaching the situation, I guess. Now, I do not know what they're going to do once the trailers or filming or promoting whatever start in a couple of months. But so far, I think they just... are doing nothing and it is not good, imho.

This is all fair!

I do believe that they're going to have no choice but to be more obvious about byler endgame in promo for s5. And so I agree that in large part how I feel about their approach thus far does rely on what is still yet to come.

Personally, I think it's going to be impossible to throw in happy couple milkvan moments, seeing as there wont be any scenes like that. Not saying they wouldn't trick fans with simple fast shots of them side by side dispersed throughout a teaser or something, I just don't think they're going to go all out with trying to convince the audience that Mike and El are romantic in official s5 promo.

S5 is going to be a point when baiting milkvan romantically would be an odd choice if they want people to fully accept byler romantically. So, I do sense that a shift will happen as s5 gets closer and when promo really starts ramping up.

We already technically saw that with s4, where they didn't really prioritize Mike/El in official posters, like at all? We got couple posters for Netflix covers with Jopper/Lumax/Byler, while the one featuring El was her on her own? Then there's the Cali poster with Mike looking at Will, his feet pointing towards him, literally detouring in Will's direction like that meme... Them willing to be that obvious for s4 posters tells me that the s5 posters are going to be even more obvious. If you think about it, it honestly would have been weird to have no byler in s4 posters, same with no byler in s5 posters, only for them to end up together? Thus far that has not been the case tho bc s4 was unhinged as hell, and so it's likely s5 is going to be the same and then some.

That's the other thing about promo with like official posters and trailers, in that they hold a lot more weight to representing the deeper message of the story, especially when the show is complete with all five parts making it like a whole experience. The posters for every season will be highly regarded as holding the truth to what was truly going on. While I do get being frustrated that they don't post enough about it casually on social media, it's just that, tbh no ones going to be using simple social media posts as hard evidence from way back in the day at the end of all this (it's more just a fun addition to the real shit). They're going to be looking at official promotion that was very intricately planned out with easter eggs and very specific foreshadowing in mind, ie. official posters, teasers, and trailers.

When it comes to the whole love triangle thing, with byler paralleling to jancy and milkvan paralleling to stancy, I think there are a couple reasons why they themselves can't acknowledge those parallels.

While I recognize those parallels, and I do agree on a basic level it's all intentionally paralleled deliberately in certain aspects, I still don't necessarily think these love triangles are intended to be seen as identical situations. They have different stakes and completely different circumstances, beyond the most basic similarities between them in that we're also dealing with 2 sets of siblings that are quite similar in character and so no duh they parallel each other.

The main thing that I think gets overlooked is that byler is meant to be a sort of callback to all of the queer-baiting in media that has led us to this point. The only reason they made the choice to go about byler this way, was to subvert a very deep rooted expectation that a boy and boy ending up together on a mainstream show cannot happen. They are feeding this expectation to an audience that is happy to abide by this norm, which is what is going to make the surprise of the boy and boy ending up together, and the fact that this time the gays were actually right instead of wrong for the #1,239 time, just makes it all the more epic.

While they are attempting to follow that same pattern of every other show on the surface, they are hiding the truth in the details. This means that they can get away with quote--unquote 'queer-baiting' within the show itself by making it arguably obvious Mike returns Will's feelings, but because they never acknowledge that it's happening at all outside of the show blatantly, they're technically not queer-baiting.

Them not outright acknowledging the love triangle going on, outside of the subtext on the show itself, works in their favor in fandom spaces as well, where it's super easy for fans to stay in denial because of all of these different things at play, most of all ensuring they can fall back on the safety-net that queer-baiting will always be the norm. The Duffers are nurturing that assumption, while also trying as hard as they can to hint to the audience in the details how close minded that assumption truly is.

They're setting the audience up basically. Those that aren't willing to consider byler even when presented with hard evidence, wont. And those that are willing to consider byler when presented with hard evidence, will. Both sides are able to be somewhat comfortable in their assumptions, bc the side that is unwilling to consider it has history on their side, whereas the side willing to consider it knows that the evidence is too astronomical to not be entirely intentional.

That's the whole reason they did the monologue with Mike saying I love you 9 times... because it allowed that sector of the fandom to be comfortable in their assumptions based on what was being superficially told to them, despite everything being shown to them surrounding that event outright contradicting those assumptions.

It's all very, very intricate, as they are making decisions with the audience's reactions in mind.

I am glad you brought up the love triangle parallels, bc this concept was eating my brain the other day. Though, I was more so hung up on the fact that them not acknowledging those parallels also could in and of itself mean that the rules don't necessarily apply identically to these love triangles?

Arguably, fans are still going to ship Mike and El just like fans are still going to ship Nancy and Steve post s5 regardless of them not being endgame. But, is that what they want at the end of all of this? I think with Nancy and Steve the stakes are nowhere near as high as the sort of build up and tearing down of Milkvan, in that, by not at all acknowledging Will's role in these events like they do with Jonathan, they are saying that it isn't as simple as Mike just falling out of love with El like it was for Nancy with Steve, only to realize her feelings for Jonathan.

If it was that simple, they wouldn't have needed to carry out this fandom wide misinterpretation of Mike not saying I love you over the course of 2 seasons and STILL at the end of all that, have that audience completely in the dark about Will's role in that conflict, unless the truth is way more complex here than it was for Jancy/Stancy.

I mean you could obviously make the argument that from the beginning the Duffers framed Stancy very negatively, so maybe at the end of all of this, they do want to make it obvious that they never wanted us to ship either of them in the first place? HOWEVER them holding off on this concept outright with byler is why I think it would make sense for it to be this big thing, bc otherwise why save it for the last season? It would feel sort of anti-climactic if they treated it just like the other love triangle's situation bc of the confusion they have caused? This is no doubt going to be fucking breaking news to the majority. They're gonna need a recap and context of everything that was left out or intentionally kept from them, otherwise they're not going to be able to subscribe properly to what happens in s5.

And then there's a whole other layer of familial implications we're dealing with. Like with Jonathan and Steve, they don't have to deal with the complexity of being siblings like Will and El do. Will and Mike ending up together means that El and Mike will literally be ending the show in a sibling dynamic. And so, I do think it makes more sense for them to really want to separate the viewer from being able to ship Mike and El together, especially when they're already a little nervous fans will be too homophobic to accept byler as it is. This would make a lot of the familial references with Mike/El in earlier seasons hit a lot harder too, assuming rewatch value with byler endgame was on their minds.

So, I guess I will say I would agree fully with all of your points if this was an average love triangle, but that's not the case here. We're dealing with a bizarre love triangle by definition and I think there's different stakes that make their approach to this valid. When it's all said and done, it will make a lot of sense even if it doesn't right now.

Though, if i'm being completely honest, I think what plays the biggest role in their reasoning is hiatus. Like it truly comes down to the audience having almost 2+ years to ruminate over what happened in s4 and sort of work through that and drive themselves crazy.

If they had treated byler as an equal option to milkvan blatantly in casual promo for s4, while still attempting to make it seem like milkvan was endgame, it would have been dubbed queer-bait irrefutably. Or worse, most fans would have figured out byler was likely to happen, making the 2 year wait and the hype of s5 promo sort of fall flat bc everyone saw it coming.

Instead, a lot of people are fully confident it cannot and will not happen. Like they are 100% convinced. And we still have at least a year for them to work through that assumption...

Something to also keep in mind, is how they've dealt with leaks worse and worse over the years. And so a lot of these really exciting surprises they have, get discovered before they get the chance to reveal them. But bc so many people are homophobic, they can have a lot of evidence for byler and still manage to make this a surprise to those people. That's what makes this revelation so fun to them. Because it's soooo obvious in their eyes and yet most of their audience doesn't want to see it. Like that's gotta be very satisfying for them in a big way. I can't even imagine.

How I see it going down, or at least how I think it would make sense for it to go down, is while hiatus is still going strong, they want to keep both sides fairly confident, but especially milkvans side because that is eventually going to disappear at the end of all of this. The clock is ticking. When it's over it will be over forever. And so I understand why they're trying to hold onto giving those fans hope that milkvan will happen bc they only have so much longer for that to even be an assumption before the truth is eventually revealed.

And yet still, there will be a point when they want the audience to like s5 and accept it as the best ending, and that will mean that s5 promo will present a major shift in terms of them sort of agknowleding that the fans who have been paying attention know that the writers care about the details. That people who say the deatils don't matter are not going to be ready for what is to come. That is going to very likely be the wake up call to those that have been using stuff like them forgetting Will's birthday means that they forget things and therefore nothing can be that deep. It will no doubt be a punch in the gut for sure to those that have been in denial about that, but it's going to happen and it's probably going to happen within less than a year before the premiere.

6 months is another time frame that I could see them getting more brave.

3 months is when it's going to start getting real.

1 month and weeks, days before, it's going to be crunch time. They're going to be very heavily encouraging rewatching the show. They're going to be getting defensive arguably to prepare themselves for the inevitable backlash.

But they also know that it doesn't matter because at the end of the day, the truth was hiding in the details all along. It didn't come out of nowhere. It was right there. I think they feel comfort in that no matter what, bc anyone claiming it came out of nowhere at the end of all this, is gonna look stupid when the creators themselves are saying that is the opposite of the truth.

And then when s5 finally does come out, likely in 2 volumes to hold onto the hype as long as they possibly can, before it ends forever, that's when it will really set in that they're not going to hold back anymore and this is officially canon now. That's when the cast will fully agknoweldge it and talk about it and how they dealt with keeping it in the dark for so long and why felt the need to do it this way. And that's when hopefully you and all of us will get the closure we need.

The idea is that the satisfaction of being the first ones right ever in the history of mainstream television, is going to be immensely satisfying. Arguably, seeing those who vehemently denied it happening's reactions to it happening, will make all of the doubt along the way worth it.

SaL anon here friend and I'm glad I got my rage ask out yesterday because there is soooooo much good OG stuff to talk about!! Never thought these are things i'd get to say but Buck getting lightninged and Eddie screaming his name as he climbs up the fucking ladder to save him feels like fucking Christmas (bonus if he does it over Bobby's orders)!! We are gonna live on Monday, i can feel it. I scheduled my check-up that day so I have an excuse to be useless, no idea what I'll come up with for

Tuesday yet. And apparently I'll need a plan for the next week too since we're then getting coma!Buck imagining he was never a firefighter!! So here's some hopes/speculation on how this plays out. I definitely feel like we're going to get an appropriately traumatized Eddie in the first of these episodes (especially if he has to tell Chris), but maybe not as much in the 2nd (though if they don't take this chance to finally work in a Eddie and Maddie talk I'll riot) since it's KR, who the aftermath of Eddie's shooting was a perfect time for BT to get together (meaning I'm keeping my Buddie expectations tempered). But that doesn't mean there aren't other things I hope for. First, we can FINALLY get Maddie out of dispatch and interacting with the firefam. Even better if the Buckley parents are there and everyone just glares at them. As for the coma dream itself, i'd love it if this became a chance to refocus on Buck and Bobby's relationship. Hear me out, Buck might change his dream career but he can't change his childhood or how his parents act. So i'd love to see moments of Buck's dad being proud or giving advice in his dream it it comes out wrong, or goes against the things Bobby would say and Buck pauses and feels it's off somehow. Hell i'd love for the dream to have weird funhouse mirrors of everyone (like Maddie has a not-Chim husband who everyone says is funny but Buck just doesn't get why) but i'd really love to take the comparison between Bobby and Buck's dad specifically. And if this isn't what finally gives us some realization for Buck about happiness, and what that really means to HIM, I'll declare the writers and KR incompetent because the setup is RIGHT THERE. I won't speculate about how this could tie into that other thing, we are taking the next two episodes as a win!! Plus we have some new SaL songs coming and I can't wait to see if we can use them so good luck to us surviving!

Me, seeing your ask pop up and getting ready to indulge in some good old fashioned 911 feels:

Like, what is even happening right now?! We are getting fed?! So well?! I don't even know what to do with all the excitement! I am going to be distracted Monday but I know I'm gonna be absolutely USELESS on Tuesday. If I was working at home at least I could pretend I was getting work done and not on my phone all day. No such luck anymore! 😭 At least my data will be back and I won't be yelling "let me iiiiiiiin" to my phone screen as ever screen takes 10 minutes to load.

So I'm also trying (and failing, badly) to manage my expectations re: Buddie because we KNOW KR hates those on-screen interactions and conversations and the 2 that came out of the shooting were not her idea to include. And honestly we have been begging for a Maddie/Eddie conversation since s2! It's tiiiime! If not now, then when?! I'm ready for it!! I'm also ready to see the firefam at Buck's bedside FINALLY which we haven't gotten since Bobby in s1 and even that had really weird "are they gonna put Bobby and Abby together?!" vibes. Still eternally baffled at what TF Carla was doing there to talk to Maddie instead of literally anyone else in the firefam who just rescued Buck. ANYWAY. Moving on.

I am DYYYYYYING for some Buck/Bobby father/son goodness and this whole situation better fucking deliver. That dynamic has always been one of my favorites and I HATE that s5 told us Buck called Bobby to watch Eddie but didn't SHOW us a single instance of Buck and Bobby talking about what was going on with Eddie. Jail. So I'm also hoping for some Bobby stuff around this whole situation and if it can contrast Buck's own parents? Even better. And I know we're all talking about Bobby but whooo boy do I want to see a reaction from Athena too. GOD if we get coma dream mixed with present day and get to see each of the firefam talking to Buck at some point?! Hearing them all call him "Buckaroo"?! I'm going to eat DRYWALL.

I'm resolutely NOT thinking about that other storyline because that does not spark joy, but I'm VERY interested to see what Buck learns about his life and the secret to happiness through all this. As for songs, I'm begging for "In Another Life" to give us the Learning Curve discussion of our dreams because it's RIGHT THERE. And as low as I'm trying to keep expectations, they cannot have Eddie screaming for Buck and putting himself in danger to rescue Buck and NOT give everyone ideas so.....*manifesting 6b 3rd party confession*

Cheers my friend, we are not ready for this!!

originally i was excited about the ep titled "performance anxiety" maybe having part of its theme including buck being anxious about returning to work after his [spec'd] injury.

i thought it would be an interesting contrast to s3 where he was so amped to get back on the job, no matter the cost (and then embolism, which ultimately got him benched and instigated the whole feeling betrayed/lawsuit debacle). like if this time, he was a bit anxious that some "other shoe" (similar to the embolism) would drop that would render him unable to do his job again. unlikely, i just thought it would be an interesting thing to explore and a bit unexpected/different than what we've seen from buck before.

[spoilers] given we've seen oliver in uniform in bts pics for 6x13, i'm no longer inclined to believe that the above could be the case, (but i do believe buck will get injured at the end of 6x10 and he will be recovering in 6x12, "recovery"). however, i do think it would be funny if--before he returns to work--there was some sort of callback to s3 in the form of someone toying with the idea of a "welcome back" party and buck (or someone else who has 3x01 flashbacks) is like, "NO." no parties! no cakes!! not this time.

Hi! Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me 🤗

I was hoping that performance anxiety would be about Buck getting back to work. But, I think that's still possible because even though he gets back to work there might be things he'd be wary of doing. Like if he got hurt on the aerial, maybe getting up there again would be scary for him.

In 5x08, Eddie was already back to work, but he still freezes shaking after the explosion that took the room on the 3rd floor of the hospital and Buck had to take over reporting to dispatch.

In my opinion we have a lot of s1 parallels this season, so we may get a parallel to Buck in S1 after he lost a victim on the rollercoaster and didn't want to pull the maneuver, until Bobby sent him up so he can get his confidence back.

So even if Buck is back at work, performance anxiety is still a real thing.

It is possible, of course, that it may just revolve around strangers' calls like that non-existent Halloween episode from s5, or it may have something to do with Eddie (maybe) dating again, it can be a lot of things, but Buck is the more plausible one. We'll see 😊

As for the cake thing, Buck got back to a cold firehouse after the lawsuit, so I'm kind of hoping he will finally get the celebration he deserves. 🙏✨️🙏

Ok, I really absolutely hate Riverdale right now, but I can't help myself not to speculate. Lol.

I'm not going to lie, right now I'm not going to wait for the final season. But I think that I will make a final decision when bts and details begin to appear in the autumn. Therefore, a few scattered thoughts that have visited me now, and which I have had for some time.

1/ Roberto said that we will see the first kisses, dates and relationships. But we already saw it all in s1. Why would we remake something that worked so well once? Only if we see it all again. He also said that the characters would have an emotional memory. Maybe we'll see some of our favorite characters going through real deja vu again when they go back to the old script?

Whatever reboot they've got in mind, s7 isn't a new show, it's the final season of a show that's been on the air for 7 years. They don't have new viewers, they shoot for those who have invested and followed from the very beginning. Then I don't see the point in making it completely new and different than what the fans are really expecting. But we also know that Riverdale is now basically a one-writer show, so they can really do a clean slate. I don't know what my thoughts are on this. I hope, but I do not expect anything good.

2/ In Rivervale, Betty said that in high school she always wondered who she would end up with - Jughead or Archie. Which was a total lie because we know she didn't. Maybe in s7 they will try to tell that story? Betty will have a crush on Archie, but her friendship with Jughead will make her doubt her feelings. This could be a really good drama that I could invest in. Too bad these writers don't let their characters really deal with their emotions.

3/ They really allowed almost all the characters to have some emotional stuff with their ex partners in s6. Cheryl, Toni, Kevin, Fangs, Veronica. All of them, in one way or another, brought up conversations about their past relationships and had, even the most insignificant, reactions to new couples. Some were allowed to get real longing for their exes - Veronica and Cheryl.

But Betty, Jughead and Archie seem to have completely given a shit about any emotional reactions regarding their new relationship. None of them cared and never once reacted to their interactions. Jughead didn't say anything when Betty and Archie started dating. However, we do know that he never recovered from how his relationship with Betty ended, and he's still hurt by that kiss. Betty completely ignored Jughead's new relationship, and she didn't say a word about how her relationship with Archie might be even a little emotionally out of place. However, she still felt guilty about that kiss in high school. This means that she is not completely frozen, that it still worries her. But not enough to think about the inappropriateness of a relationship with a guy, because of an old kiss with whom she still feels guilty.*

Archie of course never thinks, we know that. But we also know that he felt guilty towards Jughead because of that kiss. He also hid his relationship with Betty in s5, mainly because of Veronica, but I think because of Jughead too. As much as we mock at Riverdale, they actually try to write these characters as friends, so I think Archie's guilt over Jughead is still there. But he didn't show the slightest hint that he was now worried. He also started a relationship with Betty a week after his painful breakup with Veronica and felt no emotion about it. He didn't show any reaction when Veronica got back together with Reggie at the same time. And after all this, with a clear conscience, he went to her for the ring, as if this was the most normal thing for their relationship.

So what am I trying to say here. Betty, Jughead and Archie are the only ones who don't exist emotionally in s6. They are also the only ones who were inside the explosion in Archie's house. Could this be intentional?

---

All three of these thoughts seem to be separate. But now, when I have formulated all this, I think that it all makes sense and connection. I think the bomb under Archie's bed is still in play, or at least the aftermath of that explosion. And if these writers are smart enough, they can actually do it right and beautifully. But damn, I don't hold my breath. Ted is basically an asshole and will bully us for most of the season no matter how many episodes they get. I really hope for a short season, because then we have a chance to get a good dynamic story, and not the filler mess that was in season 6.

---

*It was a strange sentence, but I hope you understand me. I really accept the help here, because my knowledge of English was not enough for such a complex grammatical construction.

Wow ok I just read through some of what you said about Castle and I feel like we watched a completely different show. First of all, Andrew Marlowe created this series and made something amazing. It would not exist without him. Also, him and his wife Terri left in season 7. I believe this is because they did not like the direction the show was headed in- as in Nathan Fillion wanting to continue the show without Stana Katic. It was a love story and you can see in seasons 7/8 they are already preparing to kick her out. It would not have survived with out Kate/Stana so fans rallied to have the show cancelled. They were actually supposed to get married in season 6 but Nathan suggested the plot where he has the crash and goes missing (which I hated). As far as Kate show glimpses of different versions of herself, she is at work and being a professional, the glimpses we see of how she once was or who she can be is not unheard of. Everybody has contradicting traits and we are all hypocrites in some way. This show was very good at writing these characters realistically. And I thought the writers did amazing! Especially toward the end when Nathan and Stana didn’t want to even speak unless they were filming a scene, I thought they did a great job still giving us great stories and Caskett scenes. But I will say the first 5 seasons were my favorite. And honestly the show could totally be watched without the last season since season 7 ends without a cliff hanger. Season 8 pisses me off because I know what they’re doing. I cannot stand the fact that these people are supposed to be here to tell a story and yet they are more concerned with keeping Nathan happy since he pulls in a big audience. I get that that’s how it works but don’t destroy a beautiful story in the meantime. 😡

Trying to remember what I wrote and I think I had very conflicted views after my first watch that may have come across as heavily critical... Is that what you're referring to? Cause I actually loved the show. I just had a thought or 15 on elements I felt could've gone better. :)

I completely agree with your take and hated everything after the melodrama of the Great Disappearance. And Fillion was responsible? Of course. What a waste of time. And I only looked up the bts mess after I'd watched it (and after writing my rant) and feel so sad for Stana Katic and fans that things went down the way it did. Like with X-Files, I understand the leads would end up rubbing each other the wrong way after so long. I imagine they spent longer with each other than with their family or partners on such a show. But unlike with X-Files, Fillion had considerable power over her and used it? What seems to have happened to Katic is just tragic and I seem to have heard that Quinn (Alexis Castle) is alleged to have been of the opinion that since the show was 'Castle', anyone else was expendable (and one could read it as a jab at Katic, which fans seemed to have done). Another sad point.

I would have loved to see them explore their couple without trying to blow them up the minute they got together. Cause you're right. Caskett moment post S5 are really nice. I truly chuck that to the writing room not knowing how to write happy couples in dramas (and frankly this was also a comedy--dramedy?). It always seems weird to me that shows need to end once they get together, when there are entire shows build around couples which go on forever. Yes, those tend to be sitcoms, but they do indicate there is a formula to keeping a settled couple fresh, just as there is one to keeping the chase fresh. And as you say, anon, the first 5 seasons were really good (and I also love them) because the show was ultimately a love story.

Didn't know about the creators basically fleeing. I do like Nathan Fillion (or think I do) but the more I find out he worked on a lot of Joss Whedon projects, the more I'm disappointed. There is something to be said for the company you keep... Not alleging anything, but could speak to character.

I also keep reading a lot about how the souring between K and F may be because they dated early on, then cut it off, then she went back to her longtime ex (pre-F), etc. Whatever it is, seemed nasty and seems to have unfairly disadvantaged her professionally.

Anyway, I rambled. I think you were responding to me critiquing the lack of continuity. Everybody will have an opinion, I guess and that was my raw one. I loved this show and rewatched it again right away before it was removed from Prime (though second time around I deliberately skipped the start of S8 and ended up not finishing it the season). Shame they let it fall off a cliff after it did well so long. But even the best falter, eh?

I watched POI when it already finished airing so whenever I see someone said they watched it when it was still airing I went

Oh honey

Oh dear

Oh sweetie

You watched it live?? You watched 5x10 live?? Not knowing whats going to happen??? *Give you a hug*

I already know what was coming and still that episode left me heart broken just shattered emotionally (which is to say, also, that good writing can still make an impact even when the audience knows what's going to happen so take notes Marvel)

On another note, the 4x11 self-sacrifice lives in my head rent-free. "If you die die for something that you love" and "i'm a sociopath i dont have feelings" then she goes and kisses Root and saves them all I am on the floor bawling

the funny part is i saw bts photos from the finale that showed root and reese together and i naively thought, 'ok cool they still might die, but at least they survive until the end' and the writers really said Lol. but considering the type of show it was (and what happened to carter) and how dire things were going in s4-s5 i kinda prepared for character deaths leading up to the season. it left me numb and sad for a while, but i dont remember being extremely devastated about it. all the stuff we got with shaw dealing with it afterwards, however, that shit hurt bad. and unfortunately i love angst a lot (the writers were very good at writing sad stuff!)

my main complaint is that the death was so sudden and kinda anticlimatic (but i guess there has to be one of those to further stress how much their backs were against the wall). everyone else in the show gets a poetic death/sacrifice scene and in carter's case, at least she was killed by a significant villain in her arc and we're allowed to really feel the pain and consequences of her death, root gets taken out by a guy who started the job like two weeks ago and no time to mourn bc we're in a war Lol (and they had to rub salt in the wounds by showing us her for-sure dead body and telling us samaritan dug it up to get her implant, which while realistic, was brutal).

i feel like a lot of people talk about it as one of the worst writing decisions, but i can see why they chose to keep root's fate the same. yes, it sucked to losing a wlw character (especially when that was so close to clexa, if im not getting my times wrong), but i don't believe lgbt media should only be happy, soft stuff and that lgbt characters should be plot armor protected always. i still found a lot of meaning and emotion in the ending we got with shaw carrying on the work her team left behind with the machine and having some small piece of root to hold on to (and shaw being the only one next to fusco who never really had a lot of direct contact with the machine, getting the chance now to work closely with it and understand root more maybe that way). the show was always dealing with death/loss and grief and emphasizing how people still leave significant legacies behind and stay with us even if it's just the influence and impact they left on their surviving loved ones. i would still prefer if it had ended differently, but at least I could understand the message they were going for.

ill never stop loving 4x11 it's genuinely one of my favorite tv episodes ever. poi was very good at normalising shaw's apd and everything they did with shaw and especially what they did in the aftermath of that episode ripped me to shreds (her telling simulation root that she was her safe place and then telling real root she'd rather die than get them all killed, that made me totally normal). shaw getting the big emotional, meaningful moments in 4x11 (in the machine's simulation when she shows root one last act of kindness with 'maybe someday', the subway scene with the bomber, and of course the ending scene) was so important and well done. and root's slow-moed reactions at the end were gut-wrenching i must have rewatched that scene maybe 1000 times.

I have to ramble at you bc I'm so excited, I'm in the UK and 911 S5 is finally airing over here from next week! I've seen bits and pieces from the eps so far, but now I can finally see the whole thing! And I can finally see THE EPISODE!!! I mean that one's still a few weeks away but still...I can finally see it!! Also while I'm not the biggest BT fan, I swear Buddie stans make me ship it out of sheer pettiness, they can't just let BT fans enjoy what they have without shitting all over it.

OMG YAAAAYYYY!!! I'm so excited for you!

PLEASE come back when you've gotten to watch THE episode because I am never in a position where I DON'T want to scream over that!

Like I still can't believe we were given such a gift. Like we knew since season 1 that Athena had a handcuff kink, but I NEVER thought we would get EVERYTHING WE GOT FOR BATHENA IN THAT EPISODE!!! CANONICALLY!!! ONSCREEN!!!!🔥🔥🔥

Literally a flawless episode in every way, made all the more perfect by sexy roleplaying and handcuffs 😏😏😏

And yeah... even if I didn't love BT I'd lowkey be the same, re shipping out of sheer pettiness. For some reason they can't just... let people enjoy their canon ship just because they didn't and never will get their fanon one, and it's ridiculous.

I just finished the last episode of Angel season 5 and I must say I'm a bit... well, dissapointed. Everyone around me kept going on about the great finale with this terrible cliffhanger. I mean, yeah there are terribly outnumbered and don't seem to have a chance but still. It's not something we haven't seen a million times on this show... This whole episode felt a bit rushed to me. Idk Wesley had really grown to me. But his death didn't affect me at all. It just happened. We know from both shows

that they know how to make a characters death affect the audience. Wesley deserved better. I just don’t get why most people regard this as the best season. The finale is absolutely unepic. Angel seems to have be thought of as newly corrupted in every second episode. I like the dynamics between Spike and Angel but I couldn’t help feeling that Angel who really had become someone in his own show once he was not longer ‘just Buffy’s boyfriend’ (I don’t mean that in a negative way I just don’t know

how to express this properly. Bts was about Buffy, they just was only so amd so much time for Angel. But he was someone in Ats. Obviously. We got to see so many different facettes of him. But I can’t help but feeling like he lacked some of those layers in the last season. They gave them to Spike. I really like him. But I think the season would have worked without him all the same. Angel would have cracked those jokes. And there was not really anything else that he did that was of greater impo

importance. I don’t really know what my point is really. I just missed something. The fight will go on for ever. It did before us and it will after us. So perhaps it is some kind of genius idea to let the season not really have an ending. But perhaps they just ran out of original ideas. I remember how I felt when I ‘finished’ Buffy. Somewhat changed, permanently. But though I somewhat preferred Angel throughout the series in the end it just couldn’t move me.

Sorry for the kinda/not-/not really rant

Wow, there’s a lot here to address! But first, thanks a lot for this ask. I’m kind of excited to jump in! :)

Finales are SO important for a show and how we react to them can sometimes taint the rest of the show. So I appreciate how someone can really want to talk about it after watching such an episode, because well… the end is what we’re left with.

It is sad that the finale disappointed you. I wish I could say something that would make you feel better about it, but I can’t… While Not Fade Away is objectively a good episode and I adore the very last scene, I am not a fan of that episode, as a series finale. I remember feeling like shit after my binge-rewatch of the show 2 years ago and it has left a bad taste in my mouth ever since. I hate that the writers decided to go there with Angel’s arc. I hate how it twisted the show’s mission statement (others will disagree and that’s okay, my perspective on this is not shared by most of the fandom) and how bleak it is. 

As for season 5, I somewhat share your opinion. I have extremely mixed feelings about it and can see why it is so loved by the fandom, but Angel being my favorite character and it being my least favorite season for him, it’s very hard for me to look back on it fondly. It’s also a season that I probably would have appreciated more if it wasn’t the final season. I have problems with some of the character’s arcs in s5 and a lot of the philosophical stuff that, as a final season, it fails to end the show in a right way, for me.

I have to disagree with you on Spike’s involvement not bringing much to the season though. I do think the season would have looked very different without him. And I don’t think that his jokes could have just been given to Angel. They have a VERY different sense of humor, even if it’s not that obvious when you look at an episode like The Girl In Question.

I do think that the way they ended AtS (the fight will keep on going) was smart. I can’t imagine Angel ever being “finished” with his story. I think that’s the beauty of it and it’s the one thing (alongside the Gunn/Anne stuff) that I enjoyed in the finale. 

I am currently doing a rewatch of AtS and though it’s probably months away from now, I’m very anxious about rewatching Not Fade Away. I hope that, in time, I will be able to appreciate it more (maybe I could pile up some positive meta about it in prevision) because I felt depressed for over a week after my last rewatch. I really don’t want to feel that way again and I want the overall ending of the show to satisfy me, because well… I am a sucker for endings! 

So thanks a lot anon!! And no need to apologize for the rant. I get it, I was a mess for days after that finale! ;)

hi, cutie pie, vn army anon here~ oh wow my asks get so long, I'm so sorry:( and not at all! omg I'm such a bother to you, sorry again for such long asks! and I'm not talented, vietnamese is my mother language so ofc I'm fluent in it, then I moved to europe since a kid so the language of the country I live in is like my 2nd language. eng+german is taught at school and I've watched german channels since I was a kid so these languages are not that hard to me:) and that's great you know spanish!:o–

–I’ll probably never learn korean tho:)) I’m not in college yet, I’m a senior on business academy high school and I don’t really enjoy it so hopefully I could graduate and get on a college in the field I’d enjoy. oh wow you can do both, I’m impressed! and yes, make a choice you’ll be satisfied with, if you enjoy something else more don’t hesitate and go for it, who knows maybe you’ll like it more:) I read the tmi series till part 5 and to me it was good but I wouldn’t go back to it. and yes,–

–cassandra clare had various diff series (the infernal devices, the bane chronicles, etc.) & I see, I was into fantasy a lot back in earlier days so that’s why. oh, talking about cooking shows there’s a comedy sitcom called “young&hungry” with emily osment as female lead and it’s really funny! there’s maybe s5 already but ever since I was into kdramas&kpop I dropped all my amr shows. each ep lasted only smth over 20 mins tho so it was fast. oh, you were into exo? are you still into them?–

–I checked your bts police masterlist and it all sounds interesting, I’m excited to read other members! the police au is a good insp for gfx^^ also I wanted to tell you that jilt killed me&cerise was so fun to read, I really enjoyed it! I was also struggling the 1st time I used PS and still am tbh. I still have a long way ahead to learn:) and I’m not sure yet, like I do enjoy it but idk if I should study it, I’ll see. I enjoy reading your messages&talking to you too💕 ikr they were my otp so I–

–was happy hearing about them dating irl, pity their relationship didn’t last longer. it was actually that idea I had that I shared with you:) I’d like to write a series based on this form in future. have you watched “stuck in love” yet? and I recommend POBAW movie! I loved the friendship between emma watson, logan lerman&ezra miller in the movie. I hope I’ll gather my courage one day&come off anon but I’m still not feeling to it yet😅 have a wonderful day&I’m sorry for my long asks once again❤️

hi, raindrop!! ahhh, it’s totally okay, you don’t need to apologize for that! you are not a bother at all, and i like reading your asks and talking to you, so please don’t worry about it! 💕 and my answer got long again oops, so i’m putting it under the cut; i hope you don’t mind!

omg you were taught two languages in school though, like that’s so impressive!! :o and speaking german is amazing wow my friend tried teaching me a few words before, and i completely butchered the pronunciation 😅 and i would probably be too overwhelmed to be studying two languages at once akdjfalskjf and you’re already speaking two other languages at home- how do you not mix up your languages?? i sometimes slip back and forth between english and vietnamese haha and don’t give up on korean! since you’re so proficient in language and are interested in them, i’m sure you’ll be able to easily learn it :D

is your high school specialized for students studying business only? :o i didn’t know they have that- that would’ve made choosing majors much easier for me aha. but yes, i hope you’ll be able to study what you like next year in college!! 💗 and yes! i really love studio arts, but i know it’s hard to get a job in that field, hence the business major as well.

yeah, i saw she had a lot of series, and they all look super interesting, but the thing is, when i start a series, i binge read the entire thing, and i don’t have time for that ): i really enjoy the fantasy genre, too! i just loved the idea of magic and being able to control it. oooh, no i haven’t heard of that show; i’ll check it out!

and yes, i am an exo fan! i used to be really into them, but my biases kept leaving and i was the biggest exo m fan, so i kind of gave up on them.. i still do listen to them, and i watch exo showtime and their other guest variety shows when i’m feeling nostalgic, but i don’t actively follow up on them, like i do with blackpink or bts. are you an exo fan? :)

and thank you!!! i’m really excited to write the other members for the bts police au 💓 adjkfjalsk omg police!bts gfx– i need to brush up on my PS skills so i can attempt to make some. and thank you so much aksjdhfaksf 💘 i like jilt because it was fun to write a cliche scene from a different perspective, and omg cerise– i just really like writing embarrassing scenes lmao

ahaha i’m sure you’re much better than me at PS though because i haven’t touched it in a while 😅 and you should definitely try designing! maybe take a couple classes to see if you like it? but omg yeah, lily collins and sam claflin were really cute together 💗 and yes, i remember! i hope you do write it, and i’m really excited for your future series!! do you have any idea which member you’ll write it for? :)

and yes, i watched “stuck in love”! i really enjoyed it, and it really did seem like there should’ve been a book version of the movie too!! i thought it was really cool how each family member was like a parallel of each other, like how bill was sleeping with a married woman, while erica was a married woman who slept with another man and rusty likes a girl who isn’t the best with relationships and sam is a girl who avoids relationships and ends up with lou, who’s like one of those “hopeless romantics” she tells her brother about. i’m excited to watch “the perks of being a wallflower”! i really like all three actors/actress starring in that movie. and that’s completely okay! please keep staying on anon if that’s what you feel comfortable with :) and there’s no need to be sorry! i really like talking to you!! 💞 i hope you’re having a good day and night, too! how was your day? did you do anything fun and exciting? :D