the performative accusation that shipping zutara (and occasionally this criticism is levied at jinko/zukka) is colonialist apologism has been addressed in some excellent posts, explaining the inaccuracies and problematic implications of this logic far better than i ever could - like this post and this one and this one and this one and this one.

and i know this topic has been talked about to death, but if you could indulge my contribution for a moment, i just find it interesting how this sentiment results from the cognitive dissonance of atla fans being unable to reconcile with the idea of their favorite show's political beliefs not lining up with their own.

atla is a largely philosophical children's show that at its core deals with themes of love, redemption, and destiny vs. free-will. atla examines these themes through an anti-colonalist, anti-imperalist lens that deconstructs the idea of racial divisiveness and the idea that people of different ethnicities are inherently different. this is message is pretty explicitly stated by guru pathik:

Guru Pathik: "The greatest illusion of this world is the illusion of separation. Things you think are separate and different are actually one and the same." Aang: "Like the four nations?" Guru Pathik: "Yes. We are all one people. But we live as if divided."

and also by uncle iroh:

"It is important to draw wisdom from many different places. If you take it from only one place, it becomes rigid and stale. Understanding others, the other elements and the other nations will help you become whole."

this theme is developed across three full seasons, with the crux of this message culminating in zuko's friendships with the gaang - despite coming from different nationalities and different backgrounds, they have all had their own experiences being hurt by the fire nation and work together to take down the oppressive fire nation government. the question of destiny vs. free will is also explored through zuko's character - despite starting off as an antagonist, he develops into a symbolic representation of how the fire nation's oppression hurts its own citizens. he unlearns the fire nation's imperialist propaganda while simultaneously unlearning his father's abuse. rather than following misguided beliefs of what he thought his destiny was as the heir to the throne, instead he forges his own path.

thus, to claim that zuko can never form a deep and meaningful relationship with any of the gaang because of his nationality goes unequivocally against the themes of the show. and a major part of this is because these are fictional characters being used to analyze different theoretical questions within the show and in some cases, are used as symbolic representations of different philosophical ideas - their friendships and their character arcs serve a purpose within the text that cannot be easily transcribed onto real-life dynamics between people.

it's illogical to criticize fans who are choosing to understand atla at the level of the themes that are presented by the text - who are interested in exploring similar philosophical questions brought up by the show through the context of relationships.

if you don't like the themes of forgiveness and redemption that atla explores, your criticism should be aimed at the writing of the show itself rather than other fans. because you are giving far more thought to the "implications" of a close friendship or romantic relationship between someone from an imperalist nation and someone from an oppressed nation than the writers ever did. (and if you fall in this camp of people, i would hope you wouldn't be reblogging fanart of zuko and the gaang together while simultaneously claiming zuko could can never escape the sins of his ancestors and can never form a deep relationship based on trust and intimacy with katara or sokka or jin - because that would just be hypocritical).

and as a side note, people seem to apply this flawed logic to zutara far more than other ships solely because the show spends the most time exploring the complicated nature of fire nation imperalism in the interactions between zuko and katara in the latter half of b3. this is because they've been juxtapositioned against each other and paralleled with aang since the beginning of the show in ways that toph, sokka, and suki are not, who have mostly been used to examine different themes. there simply isn't enough time to explore these complicated themes with all the other characters, even if they theoretically exist in zuko’s dynamics with these characters, so the writers focus the most on zuko's relationships with katara and aang, and these relationships are given far more narrative weight, so have more content to criticize. but zuko and katara also canonically become friends by the end of the show. if you want to discount the existence of their friendship, claiming that it will always be tainted by the fire nation's oppression regardless of what is shown in the text, then you also have to discount zuko's friendships with aang, suki, toph, and sokka - because even if this isn't shown as a permanent barrier to their friendships in the show, it’s also not shown as a permanent barrier to his friendship with katara. if your logic is solely based on the idea that a person's identity in a relationship as a colonizer or a victim is fixed and unchanging regardless of character development, this would apply to zuko's friendships with everyone else as well.

i really dont wanna annoy you but you post about racism in fandom sometimes so i thought you'd be the right person to ask. i hope this doesnt come off as expecting u to be my teacher. yesterday someone said they didnt trust white zk shippers and i thought it was mean but then people started sending the them all these nasty messages and i started to worry maybe op was right. honestly a lot of this stuff is pretty new for me. i think our fandom is inclusive & unlike the rest of the atla fandom we actually like katara. but i'm trying to learn.

why would it be a problem that a lot of zk fics have katara looking after zuko? i always just felt like he needed it more bc he was abused and kataras better at dealing with feelings and she's good at taking care of people. is fire lady katara still ok? is there racism in our fandom? there are a lot of woc zks and i've seen them get hate for it. but the messages op got were pretty bad too. i know i'm asking a lot of questions i just hate the thinking that we might be as bad as the z*kka stans have been saying all year.

This is gonna get long so I’m just gonna jump right in. When I listened to fansplaining’s episode on fandom racism one of the guests said white fans who can acknowledge that fandom racism exists tend to frame it as “just a few bad apples” and get caught up in worrying about not looking like a “bad apple” instead of making fandoms spaces that aren’t hostile for BIPOC. Jag offs hiding behind anon to tell women of color who ship zutara that we have a creepy fetish for imperialism and colonialism suck, but your biggest concern really shouldn’t be the optics or if you can claim superiority over zukka stans.

Yeah the “katara’s a homophobe” nonsense didn’t come from our end of the fandom, but it feels naive at best or dishonest at worst to act like the zutara fandom is uniquely immune to fandom racism. A creator I follow made the excellent point that allyship conditional upon if a poc talks "nicely" about racism is still white supremacy. I believe poc need to be allowed to vent and be salty or angry without being tone-policed. I definitely have my days where I’m like “ugh white people,” or "why must white fans be like this," so I get where the OP was coming from. Ironically the folks that sent them anon hate proved their point. You can always count on hit dogs to hollar.

Fandom is only escapist for some people. It doesn’t exist in a vacuum so you’ll find racism in fandom because there’s racism in the world. Navigating that gets exhausting. There are certain things I enjoy, but for the sake of my sanity I'll only talk about it with friends in real life or only follow fans of color. Before I follow white fans I need to see first that they’re not the kind of person who inspires posts about fandom racism. A good friend of mine loves Star Wars, Kpop, and gaming but after years of attempts at calling in she decided that she’d only interact with woc in those spaces. Again, you get tired.

ATLA wasn’t on my radar until last year so I definitely haven’t read every zutara fic out there but I have noticed a lot of fics do tend to have Katara being the one comforting and supporting Zuko. It’s not inherently wrong of course, it’s just in the grand scheme of things in fiction woc are often cast as eternal caretakers and confidants in fiction:

“How characters of color are portrayed in fanworks, especially fanfiction, is worse than the actual films. They are portrayed as supportive, almost invisible understudies. Any characteristics which they possess in the [MCU] films are stripped and given to other white characters. It is not only erasure. It’s a theft of identity.

Characters of color are positioned within storylines to support the main, white characters. Even within the slash biracial pairings, the character of color is underdeveloped and in a position of servitude within the relationship.”

TheNavyLanguage, Fansplaining

As the quote above points out this honestly happens in a lot of fandoms. I’ve read fanfic for books, movies, tv shows, and comics and I can’t help but notice that in fics the writers often have the non-white character or-- if neither character is white--the darker skinned character being the care-taker, the bodyguard, or the person who is performing all the emotional labor. It’s not inherently wrong to have a character of color have a nurturing personality, you just have to remember that since Black and brown folks have been saddled with narrative after narrative where we exist to serve leaning into dynamics where the non-white or darker skinned character is providing all the emotional support and getting very little in return has some unfortunate implications.

It’s not better if instead of being defined as the avatar’s girl, Katara’s the fire lord’s girl. Part of the appeal of zutara for me is the idea that Katara could lay down some of her burdens and get some much needed support. I always imagine she’d have some major issues after the war.

"i always just felt like he needed it more bc he was abused and kataras better at dealing with feelings and she's good at taking care of people."

I’m going to push back against that statement. Yes, Katara didn't grow up in an abusive household but she has pain and trauma of her own. In fact I’d argue that her believing it’s her job to take care of everyone is rooted in her trauma. Katara needs support and care just as much as anyone else does.

Having read a lot of fics revolving around abuse victims in different fandoms I’ve observed that if fans feel a character’s trauma wasn’t properly addressed in canon, they’ll give them a lot of TLC in fics. But again, reducing the non-white or darker-skinned character to a glorified therapist has some implications.

I feel like the Fire Lady Katara headcanon's been talked to death so long-story short, it’s not inherently racist but it can problematic if it's not clear that Katara is Katara of the Water Tribe wherever she lives. Fics and art where her crown has a crescent moon, she wears blue, or Zuko wears blue when she's in red are the executions I'm fondest of.

When in doubt just listen when poc talk about uncomfortable trends in the fandom. Give fansplaining’s episodes on fandom racism a listen here, here, and here. And very loosely quoting my favorite professor just remember that if a marginalized person says they’re distrustful of a group of people or institution it usually happens after a lot of bad experiences. Don’t center your own comfort and hurt feelings.

“If we truly believe in fandom’s progressive credentials, then perhaps it is necessary for us to listen to critiques that make us uncomfortable rather than those that keep arguing that the status quo is perfectly acceptable—even as there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Perhaps then we will be able to come at these, yes, these very complex and nuanced discussions with the type of openness and good faith that is required for them to succeed, rather than approaching them with hostility.”

-Rukmini Pande, Fansplaining

People seem to forget that the Fire Nation isn’t inherently evil and actually used to be a very peaceful country with its own unique culture until Sozin messed it up. Zuko is the one who’s going to set them down the right path. The Fire Nation isn’t Always and Forever Bad™️ and tbh suggesting that people from outside of the FN should never marry FN citizens even years after the war kind of rubs me the wrong way.

I didn't touch the colonization issue because it's incredibly complex, but I think there is a clear difference in how the SWT experienced FN oppression as opposed to the Earth Kingdom. As you say, there was no occupation of Water Tribe lands, and no exploitation of Water Tribe resources, like there was with the Earth Kingdom, but I think that is mostly because the location wasn't ideal for the Fire Nation. I think there's evidence that they might have tried to colonize the SWT. That wrecked FN ship we see at the beginning of the series shows how difficult it would have been for them to try and create settlements in that land. What the SWT experienced was a gradual genocide instead. Which isn't better so it doesn't really matter as a talking point. And Zuko (at the beginning of the series) and Azula both refer to the people of the SWT as "peasants" which says to me that they did consider them under their rule. The Northern Water Tribe was left alone because it was considered impenetrable - and probably not seen as worth the resources it would cost to take control of what they probably considered little more than a frozen wasteland - up until Zhao's siege.

However, that doesn't have anything to do with whether or not characters should be shipped together or whether Katara should marry Zuko. It does not. You can say "this makes me personally uncomfortable" or say that if you were in that situation you would never get into that kind of relationship, but you cannot say it is objectively wrong or that no one would, or even that Katara wouldn't because you don't actually know that, and I would say all the arguments to prove that it would be against her character are very easily disproven by what we know of her character, but that's not the point, either. The point is that you cannot say that someone's headcanon is morally incorrect.

And I agree, there isn't really a real-world parallel to be made because it's fantasy, and all the nations in atla are a mishmash of different nations. If there is a comparison to be made with the FN it is imperial Japan, but even then, the FN is a mix of influences from many different real world cultures. The SWT is mostly inuit inspired but plopped into an Asian world so their culture also has various Asian influences.

Also, there really isn't an example like the FN in our real world history where a conquering country was really defeated and demilitarized. The closest comparison I can make is Germany and Japan after World War II, who were in a position of huge disempowerment, at the mercy of occupying Allied forces. Other people have pointed out that if Katara married Zuko it might look like an attempt to seize power for the Water Tribes, which presents a whole new problem, but comparisons to colonizers exploiting people from colonized nations is just...not it. It doesn't have to do with "forgiveness," it has to do with the fact that the FN actually stopped doing these things as a nation with Zuko at its head.

I've seen people say that we shouldn't also talk about how the FN during the war were exploiting their own people or that atla should not have had episodes like "The Painted Lady," or that Zuko should not try to protect his own people in the comics because it makes the FN citizens "too sympathetic" which is a ridiculous argument. I'm sorry that you think that a nation is entirely comprised of soldiers and one-dimensional evil villains, but that's not how it works. I've even seen people say that Zuko was wrong to not want mixed nation families to be uprooted from their homes in the colonies because "not all of those families were formed from love." Excuse me,, but WHAT?!? That is a gross, racist argument. I think there is a difference between "not all x!" to avoid responsibility and acknowledging that people are still individuals.

And the fact that we only see these arguments with zutara (and occasionally zukka) means that it has nothing really to do with actual relationship dynamics. It's just people looking for an excuse to complain about something that's popular. In fact, many of the people who make these arguments ship zukaang! If there were really an impossible barrier between Zuko and Katara (which there isn't) preventing them from loving each other, that would be THE MOST TRUE for Aang. But it would also be true for almost every other character Zuko is shipped with. People don't argue that Toph or Jin would lose their culture by being married to Zuko, so maybe they should start asking why it is that they see the feminine brown girl as having less agency than less feminine light-skinned girls.

Actually, I did see a zukaang shipper recently say that Zuko and Aang could only have a relationship if Zuko "learned to respect the Air Nomads," which I agree with on principle because duh, but the post was claiming that didn't happen in the show like Zuko and Aang didn't call each other friend and embrace and stand side by side at the end of the series talking about peace and love.

what’re your thoughts on the anti-zutarian argument citing that a romantic relationship couldn’t work between them because of an inherent oppressor / colonizer and indigenous / oppressed dynamic. love zutara, but that admittedly gave me a lot to think about and i’m still unsure about how i feel :/

Hoo boy. That argument again.

Okay, first of all, nobody has to like Zutara. Enemies to lovers (or, more accurately for Zutara, enemies to friends to lovers) is a trope that doesn't appeal to everyone, and that's fine.

But that does not make it immoral to ship pairings like Zutara. There's nothing inherently wrong with enemies to lovers, and while there probably are enemies to lovers ships out there that would make me uncomfortable, that comes down to the execution more than the ship itself, and... it's still fiction. Last I checked, enjoying murder mysteries doesn't mean that you condone murder. Tastes in fiction =/= real life morality.

As far as Zutara in specific goes, the argument that it could never work "because he's her oppressor" is just... nonsense. I'm going to try to organize this based on arguments I've seen so I don't just ramble for several thousand words, so here goes:

Zuko was her colonizer: No. The Water Tribes were never colonized. The Fire Nation never established settlements in the Water Tribes' territories. They raided the Southern Tribe and captured and killed some of its members, which is obviously horrible, but the Fire Nation never had a lasting presence in any of the Water Tribes ('any' because there's technically 3 tribes and the Foggy Swamp was untouched). Words have meanings, and... that's not what colonization means. Colonization could be a stronger argument against a Zuko/Earth Kingdom character ship since colonization DID happen there, except for a l'il issue I'll get to in a minute.

Zuko participated in a genocide against her people: Okay, while genocide is a more accurate term for what happened to Katara's tribe, this argument (and the previous one too) really falls apart at the "Zuko participated" bit. The Fire Nation committed a gradual, partial genocide of the Southern Water Tribe via raids on its villages. And the last raid happened when Katara was eight years old. At that time, Zuko was ten. At the age of ten, Zuko wasn't involved in any of the Fire Nation's actions anywhere in the world. At the age of ten, Zuko was still so far out of the line of succession for the throne (behind Iroh, Lu Ten, and Ozai) that he didn't have any real prospect of ever being able to make decisions for the nation's actions. And the first time Zuko personally had any interaction with Katara's tribe? He ran his ship through a wall, knocked Sokka over, grabbed Kanna by the coat, yelled a little bit, made a few threats... and then left without doing any further damage. So not great, but also not playing into his nation's attempts at genocide. And Zuko got comeuppance for all those things from the Gaang when they were trying to get Aang out: Zuko broke the ice wall, then Aang wrecked Zuko's ship. Zuko knocked Sokka over, then Sokka returned the favor. A few times. And Zuko grabbed Kanna, then Katara froze a bunch of Zuko's crewmen solid. Despite being wildly underpowered, the Gaang gave as good as they got.

Zuko attempted to kill the Gaang: Again, just no. Seriously, in all the time he was chasing the Gaang, he never once tried to kill anyone. Not killing was his whole deal. That's how he got banished. The kid literally tried to save Zhao, the man who tried to blow Zuko up. Capturing and killing are two very different things. Hiring Sparky Sparky Boom Man is the only exception to Zuko's no-killing thing in the entire show, and that whole plot point is just bad and wildly OOC, so I'm not going to talk about that right now.

Zuko abused Katara: There's a difference between abuse and fighting as enemies on opposite sides of a war. Hurting Katara, gaining power over Katara was never Zuko's goal. He wanted to capture Aang, and he fought anyone who stood in his way. Katara's goal was to protect Aang, and she likewise fought anyone who stood in the way. And on top of that, Zuko never caused Katara any significant harm. He tied her to a tree and tried to negotiate with her. Guess what? The first time the Gaang had the opportunity, they tied Zuko up (after seriously considering leaving him for dead). He knocked Katara unconscious. Then, the very next time they faced each other, she knocked him unconscious. That's... pretty much it. Neither of them was a victim of the other, they were enemies who fought one equal terms.

And ALL of those arguments completely disregard Zuko's redemption and the subsequent friendship between him and Katara. Zuko openly rejected his father and all his nation's actions and teachings. He changed sides in the war with the intention of stopping the harm that his people were doing to the world. He taught Aang, helped rescue Hakoda and Suki from prison, saved Katara from being crushed to death, and helped her find and confront the man who killed her mother. And Katara forgave him for everything. They became friends. But Zuko didn't stop there. He fought Azula on his own to keep Katara safe, threw himself in front of lightning to save her life again, and then, at the age of sixteen, dedicated the rest of his life to dismantling and reversing all the harm his nation had done over the past hundred years.

Zuko was never an oppressor in the way antis like to claim, but even if he had been, the fact that he saw the error of his ways at the age of sixteen and then spent the rest of his life trying to fix not only his own personal wrongs, but those committed by his nation (and many of which happened before he was even born) says a lot. And acting as though his fight to change things for the better (and his close canon friendship with Katara) doesn't matter because he happened to be born to the royal family on the wrong side of the war is incredibly reductive.

Like I said before, no one is obligated to ship Zutara. No one is obligated to like Zutara. And there's nothing wrong with people being uncomfortable with the pairing for their own personal reasons. But that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with the ship or those of us who enjoy it. Suggesting otherwise undermines the validity of interracial relationships in general, and I would strongly suggest blocking anyone who argues that there is something inherently wrong with shipping Zutara.

PS: I'm not indigenous, but I do know several Zutara shippers who are. There may be some indigenous people who find Zutara uncomfortable, but it's in no way a universal opinion.

Katara and her trauma with the fire nation

The reason why some people like me can’t see any romantic between Katara and Zuko with that ATLA put in the show because Katara experienced deep trauma from the fire nation is completely reasonable.

My problem is how Katara experienced trauma first hand from the fire nation and it affected her a lot. If it was the next generation of kids who never experienced a traumatizing war and saw the fire nation in a good light first hand despite the history, then it’s not a problem in general (unless there’s specific problems such as them still experiencing oppression in some sort of way then it’s up for discussion but in a general sense, I don’t see a problem.) This is because the next generation KNOWS about the war and what it caused, that’s not the same as EXPERIENCING it first hand. That’s the problem that people like me are anti-zuatara are saying. Katara experienced it first hand and had personal experience and trauma from it. Her mother getting killed IN HER OWN VILLAGE when they attacked and she was only 8, then Katara first meets Zuko wearing fire nation armor and comes with fire nation soldiers and threatened her village and then the siege of the north where fire nation attacked and Katara saw it first hand. Zuko was there while the fire nation attacked the north pole (which is her sister tribe). Zuko used this opportunity to his advantage to get the Avatar, attacked Katara, called her a little peasant and even knocked her unconscious in the process. She was there and she experienced it. I genuinely believe that is traumatizing no matter how much they down played the trauma for the sake of it being a kids show. They even showed how much it affected her by how she immediately talks about losing her mother to the fire nation whenever anyone brings up the fire nation. The trauma she has of losing her mother is tied to the fire nation. Yes, Zuko helped her get closure about that which is literally so amazing for him to do. But closure doesn’t mean that the trauma isn’t there anymore. It’s something she has to live with for the rest of her life and deserves sufficient time to work through it.

Which is why some people are a little hesitant to ship them. It’s not just because he’s fire nation, but because she experienced TRAUMA from the fire nation specifically multiple times. It’s has more to do with trauma she experienced and it just so happens that the trauma she has is linked to the fire nation which is Zuko is heir to. Not to mention, he contributed to that. I don’t find that racist because it’s addressing the rightful trauma that Katara has. It would be racists if Katara never experience trauma from the fire nation and I wouldn’t want her to be with Zuko just because he’s from the fire nation. That’s why I’m saying the next generation of kids who only know about what happened, isn’t a big problem (again, unless they still experience oppression and are deeply affected, it becomes something that needs to be discussed.)

That’s why people like me would really like for Katara to really deal that trauma first and for Zuko to take action into fixing the political problems within the fire nation. This is actually why I genuinely find the whole Zuko and Katara reconnecting in their old age when Aang has died and Zuko is single actually non problematic in terms of LOK canon. We see how Zuko actively worked on fixing the problems within the fire nation, Katara has seen and helped rebuild her tribe, and the world as a whole is in a new era of peace with each other. No more being scared of the fire nation. On top of that, much time has passed that it’s realistic for Katara to no longer be traumatized of her past. She no longer fears the fire nation or would be hesitant towards having romantic feelings for Zuko because of the changes made. His actions showed it.

Personally, I’m not into it because it’s not my thing but that’s besides the point. The point is that it’s an unproblematic way for things to be post canon for Zutara in the Avatar universe. If it’s like AU, then it’s non problematic either because it’s in a different world where that “never” happened. It’s just the characters personality in fanfic. However, I find it highly uncomfortable when I see things like pictures of Katara and Zuko kissing after she heals him. It just feels like it’s diminishing her rightful trauma. If others don’t find that problematic then that’s on them. I have my reasons which I think are valid as to why I don’t like it and I hope others consider.

Anyways, I’m not saying that Katara and Zuko can’t have a romance together but I’m just saying that for the sake of Katara, I would want her to work towards working through her trauma within the fire nation more. I think that’s completely reasonable. That’s why it’s hard for me to realistically look at Zuko and Katara connecting in the Cross Roads to Destiny and think romantic partners just at looking at those scenes. That’s why, it’s hard for me to realistically look at Katara and Zuko forgiving each other in TSR and think romantic partners! Call me uptight but I just find it hard to believe that Katara’s subconscious wouldn’t think about all that before even consciously considering him as a romantic partner. Or that Zuko would be slightly hesitant because of what his people, the people he’s going to lead did to her people. He listened to her story of how the Southern Raiders attacked and I can only assume that he would think that it’s something she needs more time to work through. Zuko more than anyone knows how people need space and time to work through their trauma. Zuko more than anyone knows that even though he gets closure, that trauma doesn’t go away. That’s why if he truly cared for her, he’d give her the space to heal and make changes in the fire nation. People like me feel like it should be separate from romance because we don’t like to romanticize situations. I guess I like to see things for what they are especially when that’s the situation presents to us in ATLA. 

(Which is why I’m annoyed that the creators thought it was a good idea to use this ship as bait in the video teasers for season three. Like if this was the background of a ship, they really were going to bait the viewers like this, give them hope, not make it happen and then make it such a big deal. I’m just like really. They really just had to do this. I’m just like, how can someone create such a masterpiece tv series and make such a problematic promotion video that’s like what 2 minutes long or less. Like REALLY. smh) 

And I get that Katara helped a village because they needed help, but she didn’t see them as fire nation military. She saw them struggling as well which she empathizes because that’s literally how her village was too. It was also small and the people were scared of fire nation too. That different with how she saw Zuko when they first meet - him threatening his village for the avatar. He knew that he was in a position of power seeing that the village feared him. He didn’t stop to think about the oppression they faced due to his father, grandfather and great grandfather. He didn’t know, but that doesn’t excuse what he did do. That doesn’t excuse diminishing that act as if it was nothing in Katara’s POV. 

My problem is that even they do connect and share chemistry, some people have trouble passing all that hatred and trauma after ONE interaction in the crossroads of destiny when they open up to each other and immediately see romance. Then in the southern raiders, again, I have trouble seeing that with her trying to forgive him after his betrayal, she suddenly feel romantic feelings or that Zuko would. I just feel like it would kinda be a bit odd how Katara would be confused with her feelings for Aang because they’re in the middle of a war when they’ve been best friends, but would suddenly fall for Zuko also in the middle of the war almost immediately despite their shaky foundation and the new found trust they have. Not to mention, seeing anything romantic in him saving her but seeing that he’s really changed from when she last caught Azula the cross roads of destiny. It signifies their friendship at least in my perspective, not exactly anything romantic (there’s potential, I admit) but for what was given to us, it’s just doesn’t make sense to be canon or even see any romance in the near future with all that trauma. 

Like I said, there’s potential for a romantic relationship for Zutara but the show didn’t give some of us enough interactions between them to be 100% on board. Not to mention, if I wanted a good relationship dynamic, I’d pick up a romance specific book and go read it. ATLA is not a romance, it’s a fantasy story which is why I love the series so I’d rather not fantasize over a romance that’s problematic for me. Especially since I’m not a fan of the whole enemies to lover trope. I just believe that a proper redemption arc shouldn’t mean that a guy should then be allowed to get a romance interest they hurt. Especially with Zuko and Katara’s relationship throughout the series. It showed boundaries which is a really good underlying message for young kids. That’s why I really love Zuko’s redemption arc because he got his honor and became fire lord which was done so freaking well. Like what truly mattered in the end for Zuko wasn’t who he ended up with, but that he got his honor back and the title of Fire Lord Zuko. 

Back to the boundaries thing, I wanted to adress that the difference between a friendship and a romantic relationship, at least for me, is that a friendship has more boundaries than a romantic relationship. Because of their shaking foundation of their relationship, I want those boundaries there for Katara and Zuko. I see the potential, but like I said, it’s hard for me to literally see Katara and Zuko as more than friends in those scenes where they’re friends knowing all that in a short amount of time. I’d just very much for more time for them to work on those others things before I see romance. That’s a valid reason and one that I don’t think people should just toss around and be defensive about, and calling people racists or ignorant. It’s not, it’s seeing this specific situation of Katara and Zuko in terms of boundaries.

Basically, wrapping this whole thing up, it’s hard for me and others to look past all the stuff that Katara and Zuko went through and see anything more than a deep friendship and understanding for each other with such little time and in such few episodes. Which is why I feel like them ending off as platonic friends in canon was the right move. It gives them time to work on building an even stronger friendship, Katara working through her trauma, and Zuko actively trying to change the problems within the fire nation. It also opens people in fanfic to explore romance if anyone’s into that. That’s why I personally believe that Zutara as a couple has a place in fanfic, fanart, etc, but it was the right move for them not to make it canon in terms of what they made canon in the tc show. 

Again, this is my personal opinion and people don’t have to agree. People are entitled to their own opinion. However, I feel like people saying that this isn’t a valid excuse are being extremely defensive and not considering thinking about why others feel this way. I also addressed just Zutara because it’s where I see this problem not being considered the most or being downplayed. It’s in Zutara that I see the argument that it should have been canon the most and not in other noncanon (but valid) pairings in ATLA. 

She even discredited and disparaged the victims without even attempting to understand their side of the story. I'm not trying to single out this one user, but it is because of these sorts of users that give the rest of Azula fans a really bad name. As an Azula fan myself, I sometimes understand why people think that there is a cult surrounding Azula because of some fans. I feel the need to distance myself from extremists to maintain more objectivity.

Kay so I’m going to answer this portion of the ask because I don’t feel comfortable answering the one that actually names said user. I’m going to be very forward with you; you’re definitely welcome in my inbox but I would rather not discuss certain users. That kind of stuff gets really messy really fast and I don’t really want a hand in that. 

Now I do agree with you that there are some problem users. Though I don’t always agree with the person you mentioned, I don’t feel like she’s one of the problematic users. Generally when I’ve talked to this person she’s been very nice and polite about our disagreements. 

However there are several users who I would agree with you are very extreme. Again, I won’t mention names but I do see a lot of users justifying everything Azula does. And I’ve seen several people say that she is not abusive and that Zuko is more of the antagonizer than the victim.  This is actually a point where I feel a bit disconnected from the rest of Azula’s fanbase. I feel as though Azula, though abused herself, is a bit of an abuser. Not physically but emotionally. Using fear to control people (which is canon) is a form of abuse. One that she learned albeit. But an abuse tactic no less. And there’s a pretty good number of fans who are dismissive of this/accuse Zuko of being a cry baby. That kind of thing kinda makes me uneasy. It makes me uneasy in the same way that people saying Azula (a 14 year old child) deserves death and a sentence as harsh as Ozai’s.

I’m not really fond of the ‘Azula did nothing wrong’ line of thinking. Because she did and she is still doing wrong things. Which is why precisely I am disappointed that Bryke apparently sees a redemption arc as ‘prolonging’ or ‘watering down the series’.

You mentioned in the first half of the ask that there’s some Tyzula ship hate. In terms of that and “which is funny because it (sokkla) is just like zutara.” You’re kind of talking to the wrong person here lol. I’m in the middle of my like 20th Sokkla fic. And I don’t like Zutara. Personally I feel like the dynamic is very different as they are four different characters entirely. And I actually do prefer Sokkla to Tyzula a bit.

However, as mentioned I do like Tyzula too and I hate it when people insist that it’s an abusive ship no matter how its written. So I can see your frusturation there. Just ship wars in general...I don’t like to fuck with those. I was part of the pro-Kataang squad back in the day. And I was caught dead in the middle of Tyzula vs Sokkla. I’ve learned my lesson after that one and really try to stay out of ship wars the best that I can. 

I can’t really comment on the Ehasz allegations because I actually have no idea what you’re talking about lol. Like I read his tweet but I don’t really follow him much beyond that. So, though I have heard via avatarfandompolice that there were some allegations about him, I have no idea what they actually are or anything about that matter. I wouldn’t mind someone enlightening me on that. 

“As an Azula fan myself, I sometimes understand why people think that there is a cult surrounding Azula because of some fans. I feel the need to distance myself from extremists to maintain more objectivity.” This I can actually 90% agree with you on. I actually feel like I’m in the same boat here. I kind of feel like I need to distance myself from the fanbase because I actually DO like the comics and I had a very positive opinion on them. But after reading so much meta I started to take a more pessimistic view. I kind of feel like there’s just a lot of negativity and pessimism in her fandom at the moment (and it isn’t entirely unwarrented, I can see why everyone is so pessimistic) and it’s kind of overwhelming. I really miss when we just shitposted (I still laugh about azulasnuthouseblog, ‘shitwreck trainpost’, and ‘ya fukt it up’) and made dumb fanart. 

I do agree that there’s a lot of extremists and that it probably pushed away a lot of those people who liked to shitpost with me. The ship war was like the nail in the coffin. 

The only thing I disagree on is the cult thing. I have made various posts now about this and about how I disagree with certain opinions of the fanbase and I don’t feel anxious over it. I’ve also made several posts kinda calling out some of this fandom’s bullshit (including the one that prompted this ask) and, knock on wood, no one has given me a hard time for it. Like I don’t feel like fellow Azula fans are gonna evict me from the fandom or hate me for posting stuff like this. And that’s what make it NOT a cult. Cults are manipulative and leave members fearing what would happen if they speak out against the majority/have a different opinion. They isolate people who dare to think differently. I don’t get this vibe from the Azula fandom. So far everyone (even some of the more radical fans) have been very cordial with me.

If anything, the Azula fandom is more of an echo chamber (an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered) than a cult. But I do think that alternative ideas are considered, so echo chamber doesn’t quite fit either.  

But this is just my personal experience with the fandom. I can’t say how others have been treated and I won’t try. 

All of this said, thanks for the ask, even if I can’t agree with all of it. And a thanks to the rest of Azula’s fandom for being open when discussing things with me so far. I hope that I was able to convey all of this in a way that is respectful to all parties and in a way that doesn’t throw anyone under the bus. 

If there’s someone who feels uncomfortable with me posting this one, let me know and I can take it down because I don’t want anyone to feel called out or attacked. 

I really like the nuanced take about Zutara and why it makes some people uncomfortable and I can see both sides of it. I ship Zutara now but at first I didn’t and it made me really uncomfortable but I think it was just because of certain fan content I was coming across. Some people do portray Zutara in an extremely fetishized & creepy Stockholm syndrome way that makes Katara come off like some helpless damsel stereotype. It made me feel really gross thinking about as a young WOC but rewatching the show and seeing the true dynamic of these characters made me fall in love with them again. So I guess my feeling is that in canon i really love the dynamic but I hate the way *certain fans* twist it and refuse to acknowledge the racism & misogyny in what they’re doing

this is a complicated topic with many layers to it but first - i am sorry if you have ever felt unwelcome in the zutara fandom due to experiences with racism/misogyny.

it would be ignorant to claim that the zutara fandom is somehow uniquely unaffected by systemic racism or sexism, but it would also be disingenuous to claim that these issues only exist in certain parts of the atla fandom. racism, sexism, and general bigotry exist in every fandom due to institutionalized inequality in social structures. and to make it clear, i'm not directing this criticism towards you, anon, you are entitled to your own personal experiences, but i have seen a broader trend of people attempting to use fandom racism to moralize their position in ship wars, which is diminishing from the actual problem - the focus should be on acknowledging the existence of fandom racism/sexism, combatting implicit biases, and creating spaces that can uplift marginalized voices, rather than focusing only on optics in an attempt to gain moral high ground in a silly *fictional* ship war.

however, given all this, the reason that i am still in the zutara fandom is because i appreciate how many people in the fandom are dedicated to unpacking issues of racism and sexism and cultural insensitivity in atla's source material, which i personally haven't seen in many other sides of the fandom (that often sanitize what actually happened in the text to avoid acknowledging these issues in their favorite show). of course this is a broad generalization, but that's generally why i stick with the non-canon shipping side of the fandom because fans that are willing to stray away from canon are often less afraid to engage in critical analysis.

i also do think the zutara fandom has come a long way from the early 2000s when the show first aired. for example, when i first joined the fandom i had mixed feelings on fire lady katara, but i have since read some fanfics that have done an excellent job deconstructing some of the problematic ways that this trope could be interpreted and balancing respect for katara's cultural heritage and autonomy with the political and personal difficulties of being involved with an imperialist/colonialist nation. the fire lady katara trope, capture!fic, and other complicated topics/tropes are almost never inherently racist/sexist, but rather, their execution is what matters. and all this is not to say that issues of systemic racism/sexism do not still exist in this fandom, but it personally has not significantly negatively impacted my experience in the zutara fandom due to the wonderful content that so many other fantastic people produce, though everyone's mileage may differ with what they are comfortable with. anon, i hope that you are able to find a place in the zutara fandom for you! but i also know many people that have stepped back from other fandoms due to experiences with racism/misogyny, so i understand that decision as well.

on a final note, i think it's important to acknowledge that fandom doesn't exist in a vacuum and broader issues of racism and sexism are rooted in the media, the entertainment industry, and mainstream societal norms. while i do sometimes focus on fandom dynamics/discourse in my criticisms, i think it is equally as important to acknowledge how issues of prejudice and inequality are perpetuated through larger social structures, which is why it frustrates me when the atla fandom refuses to acknowledge the flaws of the original show, which has far more influence and social power over the general public than discourse over fandom tropes ever will. personally, i don't understand the phenomenon of holding fan-made material to a higher standard than mainstream media.

Twitter is suddenly trying to cancel Zutara shippers saying it’s a racist, especially Katara becoming Fire Lady, and it’s bothering me so much. I’m not even a Zutara shipper but that claim just feels so unfair.

Twitter is a cesspool, honestly. It’s even worse than tumblr, and do you know how hard a social media platform has to work to be worse than the blue hellsite???? Jfc

Anyway, like, shipping isn’t activism. Hating ships for having dynamics you dislike isn’t #woke. The world of Avatar, while drawing heavily from real world cultures, is not completely analogous to Earth or human history. And while it is entirely reasonable to dislike a particular dynamic, or to be uncomfortable with the way it is portrayed in certain fanworks, or whatever, what’s not reasonable is trying to ‘call out’ people just for shipping it, or to cancel them because their opinions do not perfectly align with yours.

If Katara becoming Firelady makes someone uncomfortable, then they should probably avoid fics where that happens. If Katara dating Zuko at all makes someone uncomfortable, then they shouldn’t read zutara fics--it’s truly that simple. (Although if they are zukka shippers trying to claim zutara is inherently racist, that’s just garden variety hypocrisy with, probably, a dash of fetishization. ‘It’s ok if it’s gay’ is not the compelling argument they like to believe it is.)

What’s funny (not funny ha ha, more like funny pathetic) is that zukka shippers are congratulating themselves over their rise in popularity, bragging about ending the ship war (by removing Katara from the narrative, but I’ve ranted about that plenty already), lording their newfound fandom ‘superiority’ over zutara.........and yet they aren’t getting even a fraction of the vitriol that is still being directed at zutara shippers for the crime of simply shipping Zuko with Katara and enjoying their relationship. (And a good many of them are actually contributing to the harassment.)

They are calling for zukka to be the new Zuko ship in the LA, and I haven’t seen anyone saying that hoping for that is inherently racist and anyone who ships it or wants it to happen in canon is racist. All the while, zutara, supposedly no longer even the biggest ship in the fandom, is still fielding the vast majority of the fandom’s hatred, and it isn’t even about older ship wars anymore, it’s about the ship itself.

At the end of the day, I think I’d rather just take this as a sign that they are still threatened by zutara’s potential, and are being so hateful because they’re actually worried about Netflix making it happen in an official installment of the franchise.

Meanwhile, I’ll go about my day enjoying my corner of the fandom, same as I always have. Anyone who doesn’t like that, or think it makes me a horrible person, can go fuck themselves. And twitter as a whole could just burn up into the ether and no one would miss it, seriously, it’s horrible over there.