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horizon-verizon · 1 month

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Final Thoughts on Show!Rhaenys before We Get into the Second Season

I'm not hopeful about Rhaenys in season 1 because the trailer showed us that she'd be sticking to her "no war" and "anti-emotions" agenda even after Luke's death and our knowledge of who Otto is/his emotional influence on Alicent.

I clearly see show!Rhaenys became as bitter as she was. Despite her father-- Prince Aemon--having been the named and official heir plus her being his only surviving child, she was automatically, technically, his heir as well. But because Jaehaerys I didn't believe women should rule like a man AND worried that there would be a civil conflict between Viserys' supporters (namely Daemon) & the Velaryons-Baratheons (Jocelyn Baratheon was Rhaenys' mother and was alive at the time), he decided to use an election knowing how it would go to place a universally uncontested male heir. Show!Rhaenys and dbk!Rhaenys were, some argue, a better fit for the throne by character. It would so likely make any person, woman, resentful of her lot & thus express her resentment...

But the issue is that show!Rhaenys is too cynical & she decides to take it out o the wrong person, the person who is probably the least responsible for her position and the person who is more vulnerable to such expressions at that moment. To the point where she's passive-aggressively trying to discourage a good thing (Rhaenyra believing she could be Queen) when she tells Rhaenyra that men would "sooner" destroy the realm than "see" a woman on the throne. This isn't advice, it's her bitterness being expressed, because she doesn't ever follow up with how Rhaenyra can constructively begin to come up with any strategies.

Because yes, things ARE different for Rhaenyra. Viserys made her his OFFICIAL, declared heir. Rhaenys was never that. Viserys also never called for any Great Council, he relied on the already extant custom that the King's word was Law to justify his choosing Rhaenyra.

Men will never accept ANY woman, so I (Rhaenyra) do what I must anyway.

In the context of a woman having to become Queen in a patriarchal world where there literally ever has been a Queen regnant, Doylistically, why is this woman who the show is saying is supposed to be strong of character or will submitting to patriarchal will wholeheartedly and trying to get Rhaenyra to?!!! Okay, so men will not accept me...am I supposed to just lie down and accept that when I DO have an opportunity to rule anyway, which Viserys/the Monarch, allowed me? "That's how it is"...okay, so bc that's how it is, I should just do nothing at all to improve my place?

It's not smart as people claimed, it's not insightful. It's you putting us all against a wall & saying you shouldn't even try to cross bc you'll fail. It's an ingredient to anti-progress, anti constructivism.

Rhaenys was also absolutely being hypocritical with Alicent in episode 9 about "windows" in prisons, because she has not really protested against Corlys sending off their daughter to be married off at 12 purely for his own ambitions like Otto.

You are wiser than I believed you to be, Alicent Hightower. A true queen counts the cost to her people. And yet you toil still in service to men. Your father, your husband, your son. You desire not to be free, but to make a window in the wall of your prison. Have you never imagined yourself on the Iron Throne? I'll leave you with your thoughts.

She has done what I already described to Rhaenyra in episode 2. And she says to Corlys she's over not having been chosen...yet says what she says how she says about the lords never going to accept her in episode 2.

And while being anti-war for "the realm", she also kills dozens of smallfolk bc "it's not my war"...but the greens can use this as an excuse against her, Rhaenyra, and the blacks to open the war and make themselves look that much more righteous! (Rhaenyra is still close r to the blacks than "neutral" through Baela & Rhaena) So is she really that careful or conscientious even in her goal for there to be no war?!

If Rhaenys meant "realm" as both nobles & peasants, she has a funny way of showing her concern for "the realm". If not and she just meant nobles, is she really all that wise or compassionate?!

But Rhaenys in the show is made not to see any of that. You can say she's "keeping it real", but sometimes you stifle your own hopes so you cannot see possible paths to the thing you want to accomplish or change. Therefore, show!Rhaenys is actually being very blind & close minded.

It reminds me of some people's tendency to say "I'm just being real" (not so much Rhaenys but the justifications for her behavior towards Rhaenyra) & being nihilistic or over-cynical kinda places us back to square one, the place where we stay victimized by the status quo.

I mean, think of how if people had just accepted "that's just how it is", we'd still have legal segregation, women wouldn't be able to vote or own their own properties or have their own bank cards w/o having to get paper permits from their dads & husbands into the 70s!!!

Show!Rhaenys' particular brand of bitterness (that some of us have misidentified as "truthtelling"), if allowed to be totally justified can serve to reaffirm oppressive status quos.

Which is why I just prefer book!Rhaenys, who many have pointed out was not bloodthirsty but merely thinking of a ruthless strategy and eager to protect her own interests & those that she loved. Because no matter what either show or book Rhaenys wanted, war was definitely coming for not just Daemon & Rhaenyra, but Baela and Rhaena. They are Daemon's daughters no matter who their supposed host was [HotD, Baela is Rhaenys' & Corlys' ward], how would the greens just ignore them?!! Baela is very much like her father, by the evidence and I'm sure Rhaena would also not just abandon Daemon or Rhaenyra, not having had been close to them for years and Daemon literally being their father who has raised them with real love since both were born.

To clear up some misunderstandings about the original book, no one at the black council believed for a second that greens wouldn't come for them or were really "warmongers":

The greens would have never let go of the people they usurped (Rhaenyra & her kids) who could come back at any moment to oust them...that's how usurpations usually go. Look at Robert with Dany and Rhaegar's children!

["The Blacks and the Greens"] -- further proof of greens' intentions against the blacks

Rhaenys says this ("The Blacks and the Greens"):

Bk!Daemon was actually the one practicing some caution, against a full front attack on KL. (Something bk!Rhaenys advocated for.) BUT like Rhaenys, Daemon in the OG story wasn't against a war. Not because he is he's "turned a new leaf" against violence and being an actual, non-playful menace just for the fun of it (which was never his character), but so he can protect his family...proven by how before he speaks, we have Rhaenyra worry over the fates of her sons going into battle in Rhaenys' suggestion. Bc again, the war was nearly inevitable, and definitely became so after Lucerys' death.

Bk!Daemon knew how hard it'd be to fight against actual dragons. He specifically wanted them to use them as a last resort & first send letters to different lords to get them to show their allegiances & prepare for war, fight under Rhaenyra's name. And so they knew who to watch out for.

["The Blacks and the Greens"] -- Black council, Daemon's Words

Corlys was also not anti-war, he was anti-full blaze attack on KL bc it would destroy the things they were fighting for.

["The Blacks and the Greens"] -- Black council, Corlys Disagreeing w/Rhaenys

So Daemon & Rhaenys' roles are almost switched for the show, and this reveals another layer of how the show seeks to subdue their female characters into parrots and puppets of men around them for the male gaze, turn them into something "nonthreatening" & more influenced by men's wills & ambitions than they had been in the book. [xenonwitch]

I say "almost" because the show was anti war vs "go-go-go" instead of the book's full attack on KL vs dragons-as last-resort.

Doesn't matter that the scenes where Baela tries to get Rhaenys to see that were deleted, this situation exists without any of their permission, consent, will, etc. Book!Rhaneys has the sense to not try to deny or hide from it. No one tried.

No, show!Rhaenys doesn't offer very good things, nor is "wise" as people claim she is. "Wise" is different from "clever", and claiming that this iteration of Rhaenys was "wise" really just positions this discouragement of actual action and seizure of opportunity for an event where else-time didn't or couldn't happen is categorically unwise!! And a way to re-affirm patriarchal license of suppressed female ambition or rage.

This was already wrote this on Twitter, under this post (LINK):

#rhaenys targaryen's characterization (meleys' rider)#rhaenys targaryen #rhaenys targaryen (aemon's daughter)#hotd characterization #hotd #house of the dragon #hotd critical #hotd writing #hotd misogyny #hotd episode 2 #hotd episode 8 #hotd episode 10

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bbygirl-aemond · 1 year

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In Your Grave

Kudos to this post which implanted the idea in my brain of Alicent giving Viserys the death he deserves at the end of Episode 8 and making sure he goes out in both mental and physical agony as all child and wife abusers should ❤️ So here is the result! This is cross-posted to Ao3 here but you can read it in its 2.7k entirety below if you want! TW for references to canonical events such as Alicent's SA and Aemma's death.

Viserys was always heard before he was seen, these days. His broken wheezing echoed down the corridor long before Alicent stepped through the door to his bedchambers and he came into view. It rankled in her ears as she drew up short, as a careful stillness settled about her shoulders and her spine.

The servants had rearranged his limbs haphazardly about, such that he more closely resembled a discarded doll than a King. He was lying on the left-hand side of the bed, she noted idly. They must have placed him there while unconscious, for he would never have chosen such a thing on his own. The right-hand side of the bed was for sleeping, she knew. The left-hand side was only for her, for Aemma, for the little girls who tipped back their heads and gripped the sheets and bit their lips bloody as a man unmade them night after night after—

Another wheeze, this time louder than all the rest. Even from here, she could see the pallor to his face, could hear the rattling within his lungs.

She knew that sound.

It was one that she knew as surely as she knew the sound of her own breath.

When Alicent had been a very young girl, her father had sent her to read to the old King Jaehaerys upon his deathbed. He had terrified her when she’d first seen him. In all the tales her father had always told her, Kings were larger than life. They were the father of the Realm, after all; above them were only the Gods.

Jaehaerys had not died a God.

He had died a withered old man, with spittle flecking his lips and urine staining his sheets.

Alicent had been there when he’d passed. She’d been sat by his bedside, as had become habit as of late, clutching a book in her hands that had quickly become forgotten as an eerie noise had begun to emanate from within Jaehaerys’s trembling chest. She’d paused in her reading, transfixed by the noise, all of the sights and sounds within the room narrowing down to that one death-rattle.

The Stranger had come, then, looming over the room. But Alicent had not been afraid, for she’d known he had not been there for her. She had leaned in, utterly entranced, and between one moment and the next Jaehaerys had been no longer.

“Please,” gasped the dying man on the bed before her, and Alicent felt a quickening within her heart.

Before the next sun rose, the Stranger would once more taint the walls of this room.

Viserys groaned once more, his hands spasming by his sides. Her eyes roved over him disinterestedly, taking in the sores about his face and the wreckage of his eye with a marked sense of detachment. He must be in terrible pain, she knew; those who clung to life the Gods were no longer willing to give paid a steep price for their cowardice.

“Please,” he begged again, his voice cracking.

One of his hands lifted itself off the bed by just a few inches, his remaining fingers stretching themselves towards his bedside table. She followed his gaze to the goblet that rested there, to the milk of the poppy that rested within.

It would ease his pain, she knew. Ease his passing.

Her face twisted with practiced sympathy.

“Oh, dear husband,” came her voice, saccharine sweet. The words clung to each other like slices of candied lemons. “Does it hurt terribly?”

The fingers stretched further, searching desperately. She supposed she should have expected as much. After all, he had refused the poppy all day long, had likely been counting down the minutes until he was alone once more and could reach for its warm embrace.

Alicent shushed him gently, stepping over to the table and lifting the goblet delicately in one hand. She carefully lowered herself to sit beside her husband and ever-so-gently batted away his hands. Viserys stretched his head eagerly forward, his lips parting as if he’d been trapped in the deserts of Dorne for a thousand days without water.

“There, there,” she soothed, and then took immense pleasure in pouring every last drop of the medicine out onto the sheets beside him.

He let out a little cry of alarm, his fingers twitching plaintively—impotently—towards the cup, as if hoping some of the medicine might remain. One of them brushed against her hand, and her lip curled in disgust. She dropped the cup to the floor, where it bounced with a loud clatter.

Instead of turning towards her, Viserys’s eyes followed the cup, almost frantically. A surge of something—sudden and heavy and searing—bubbled over within her and she darted one hand forward, snatching ahold of his chin to tilt his face towards her.

She kept her face smooth, kept the curl of her lips pleasant and her eyes softened. He’d always loved her smile, had remarked upon how comely it was ever since she’d been a little girl of two and ten. So Alicent smiled for him as prettily as she knew how. But her fingers dug in until the tips bled white, and until pinpricks of red blossomed against the papery skin beneath her nails.

Viserys was in too much pain, she knew, for the grip to even register, that it was but one drop within a sea of agony.

But she knew she was hurting him. She knew that, for once, she was adding to his pain instead of taking it all away, and it sent a little thrill curling up along her spine.

Never in all of their years together had she ever once touched him with the intent to harm. She had wanted to. By the Gods, she had wanted to. Every time he bedded her, a once-dormant beast would wake up from within her and would seize ahold of her limbs, and she could never remember which was worse, the urge to claw open her own skin so that nothing could touch it ever again, or the urge to claw Viserys’s flesh to ribbons, to get him off of her to get him out of her—

But little girls who scratched at Kings lost their fingers, just as little girls who cursed at Kings lost their tongues.

And so Alicent had fisted her hands by her sides until her fingernails had broken the skin of her palms and had forced that great beast back within the recesses of her ribcage so that her King could allow himself the pretense that he was not hurting her. She’d forced herself to relax and to lie there and to smile back at him when he looked up at her because Gods forbid he suffer the knowledge of what he was doing.

Things had shifted eventually, after the farce had fallen away and they both knew that the other recognized their marriage-bed for exactly what it was. Oh, Viserys had still called her to his bed—had still wrung two more children out of her yielding womb. But when he would whisper sweet nothings into her skin, praises for her hair or her skin or her cunt, she would say nothing. When he would look up at her expectantly, she would gaze right back at him with no expression at all. She could not claw at him or at herself, lest reality crash in around him entirely, but she would dig her nails into the silk sheets below her and relish in the tatters that would remain behind once he was done.

Viserys would not leave her be, but he would not confront her about the destruction wrought of his sheets, either. She had fancied them to be at a sort of stalemate—had fancied her private little destruction to be some sort of rebellion, had sought a modicum of comfort within it.

But now she was clawing at him and not the sheets and his skin was a thousand times more delicate than the silk and a thousand times more satisfying to tear.

“Look at me,” she told him sweetly, leaning over his face so that her hair fell in a curtain around him both. She wanted the sight of her smile to be the only thing he could see. The scent of her hair to be the only thing he could smell. The sound of her words to be the only thing he could hear.

For a moment—for just one moment—there would be nothing but her.

His eyes focused on her agonizingly slowly, his pain rendering even the slightest of movements laborious.

“Do you remember the vows I made you, upon our wedding day?” she asked him. “I should like to make you another.”

And she leaned in even closer, until the heat of his lips warmed her own. The lines and sores that twisted at his skin repulsed her. The humid, bitter beath that ghosted across her lips repulsed her. But repulsion was an old friend to her; she welcomed it and then sent it merrily on its way.

Alicent looked down upon her husband. Her skirts remained firmly settled about her ankles, and not hiked up around her waist. Her thighs were pressed together, and the space inside of her was blissfully empty, and the only points of contact between them were her fingertips bruising his face.

“You will die tonight, my King,” she breathed. “And when the day breaks, there will be a new King.”

The withered face below her blanched of all color, and she shushed him softly, digging her nails further into his papery skin.

“It is all decided,” she soothed. “The Conqueror’s crown will be placed upon your son’s head, and the Conqueror’s sword will be placed in his hand. And when the Septon has blessed him and he has mounted his dragon the smallfolk will look upon Aegon, Second of His Name, and they will worship him as they worship their Gods.”

Viserys was wheezing once more, his fingers scrabbling for purchase, threatening to press at her own. She swatted him away once more, and this time her palm cracked cruelly against his skin. Still, when she spoke, her voice was unbearably gentle.

“Our ravens are waiting to send word to every corner of the Seven Kingdoms,” she promised him. “They shall remind the Lords of Westeros of the promise they or their forefathers made when they made you a King, my darling. It is in your name, and yours alone, that they will swear fealty to my son as their King.”

There was a pounding within her ears, a throbbing between her ribs where her heart resided. The beast reared its head inside of her, only it did not show itself within her voice or upon her face but in the savage press of her nails and in the venom spilling out from between the lips Viserys always swore were softer than the finest of Myrish silks.

“I will call Rhaenyra back to King’s Landing, of course,” she continued, her words coming faster now, spurred on by the fire within her. “A grieving daughter would think of nothing else but to rush to her father’s side. Of course, she cannot be allowed to live. Not her, and not her spawn, and not your dear brother.”

A tear trickled across one, wizened cheek. Her smile widened, and she leaned in yet closer still as the fire swirled inside of her.

How dare he weep in her presence, when he never once allowed her the same?

“Oh, do not cry, my darling,” she whispered. “They will have an honorable death. A dragon rider’s death. The princes shall bathe in the flames of the mighty Vhagar, and the princess shall slate dear Sunfyre’s hunger. Though he is not quite large enough to swallow her whole; she will have to hope he takes his meals quickly.”

“Alicent,” Viserys gasped, his face gray with horror. “You—you cannot do this. You will not—”

“I will do exactly as I wish,” she snapped at him, and then inhaled, plastering her smile back about her face. She wiggled his chin back and forth, as one might a child, or an unruly dog. “While you lie cold in your grave, Aemma’s line will die, and House Targaryen will continue through me. Aegon will rule with Helaena beside him—your subjects adore her, Viserys, a thousand times more than they ever adored Rhaenyra. And Aegon will rule with my darling Aemond as his Hand—he was always so fond of history, of philosophy, of all the poets and novelists you so loved, and yet you would barely look at him. And with sweet Daeron by their side—I had to send him away to keep you from him, he was always so clever with his tongue and I had to make sure he kept it because you vowed to—”

The beast rose up further, fire tugging at the back of her throat, threatening to choke her. She drew in a shuddering breath, and forced it back down. Perhaps this time she was not entirely successful; her smile now felt as sharp as her nails, and her eyes held themselves open a smidge too widely.

“Aemma,” Viserys wept, his eyes clouded with terror.

An infant, begging pathetically for its mother.

“Aemma is dead, remember?” Alicent told him, very slowly and patiently, as if talking to a confused child. She brought up her other hand, dug a finger deep within his belly, and dragged it up to his sternum as he moaned and writhed. “Pigs are butchered more humanely than you butchered the mother of your child. Did she beg you to stop? Did she cry for you? Did she scream for you?”

A garbled wail tore itself free from Viserys’s lips; it was an ugly, wet thing, flecking his mouth with drops of crimson. He screwed his eye shut, feebly trying to turn his face away from her.

“Look at me!” she screamed, and his eye forced itself open again.

He looked upon her with terror and a sick, dawning sort of realization. Her smile widened further, and she leaned in close to him once more.

This is the thing you married, the voice in the back of her head whispered gleefully. You saw its pretty smile and its dainty hands and so you dragged it into your bed and upon your cock and trusted that it could never hurt you. You bred it like a bitch and you promised to cut out its tongue and all this time you should have been worried about its teeth. But you did not and now it will leech your throne and your legacy and its pretty mouth will swallow the House of the dragon whole.

“You will never see your dear Aemma again,” the thing that was Alicent Hightower vowed, baring its pretty teeth as its pretty lips curled further. “She is in the Seven Heavens with her infant son, where you can never touch either of them again. But you will see me again, Viserys, I swear this to you. When my time is ended I will search the Seven Hells for your wretched soul and then your torment will begin anew.”

She lowered her lips to press one last, caricature of a kiss against his withered brow.

“Farewell, dear husband,” she told Viserys. “Until we meet again.”

And she turned her back upon her King as he flailed and sobbed and gasped upon his deathbed. Her pace quickened, and her heart beat in anticipation.

It was not Aemma’s name that he cried, then.

Nor was it Rhaenyra’s.

“Alicent,” Viserys begged, grasping desperately after her, the acrid scent of blood and urine and rot seeping into the air around his bed. “Alicent, please.”

Her hands flexed by her sides, one set of fingernails stained with the blood of a King. She did not look back towards her husband, nor did she acknowledge his wails. But she very carefully engraved the sight of his terror-stricken face upon the insides of her eyelids, carved the sounds of his agonized betrayal into the crevices of her ears.

This, too, she would never forget.

The Queen left the royal chambers with a beatific smile upon her face.

Behind her, the Stranger entered.

#hotd #house of the dragon #lord of the tides #house of the dragon episode 8 #hotd episode 8 #alicent hightower #alicent #viserys targaryen #viserys #viserys i targaryen

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malewifedaemon · 2 years

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My top 8 moments in episode 8:

Rhaenyra & Daemon constantly touching each other and being in love 💕

Rhaenyra calling Daemon "my love" 💖

Rhaenyra visiting her father in the middle of the night 💔

Viserys standing up for Rhaenyra's children

Daemon helping Viserys on the throne 🖤

Baela&Jace and Rhaena &Luke being genuinely happy to be betrothed 🥰

Daemon killing Vaemond after he insulted his wife and her kids 💓 malewife Daemon

Daemon saying hurrah to the engament of their kids, Daemon looking at Jace knowingly and Daemon standing between their kids and Aemond - just Daemon being father 💕 because we knew that Rhaenyra is great mom and so is Daemon father now

#hotd #house of the dragon #rhaenyra targaryen #queen rhaenyra #daemon x rhaenyra #daemon targaryen #rhaenyra x daemon #male wife daemon #daemyra #prince daemon targaryen #hotd episode 8

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hollandwhore · 2 years

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why does aemond look like that cat though

#hotd #house of the dragon #hotd episode 8 #aemond targaryen #jace targaryen #lucerys velaryon

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captainswanapproved · 2 years

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Can we just talk about how awesome this episode was?

Married!Daemyra is peak GOT/HOTD romance.

All of their casual touches and glances. Daemon’s unending support of his wife and their children. He doesn’t hesitate to do all he can to support and protect his family. We see them both truly happy for the first time in years and it was glorious.

Also, his relationship with Viserys!!!! In spite of everything that has passed between them, Daemon remains a loyal younger brother.

I think this episode was peak for Daemon’s character thus far. We see his loyalty to his family in every glance, in every word, in every action. Matt Smith stole every scene without saying much at all, and the director actually showed his reactions multiple times in all his scenes!

Rhaenyra, I am so proud of her. She is such a wonderful, protective mother. The burden of the crown is heavy but she bears it despite no longer wanting it, all in the name of her family. She defends her boys from the vipers at court. In truth, she is satisfied with her life at Dragonstone with her family. It is more of a home to her than the red keep ever was. Yet she does her duty and protects her family’s legacy and claim to the throne.

I was pleasantly surprised by Alicent. I saw a woman who was trying to make peace, who was ashamed of the actions of her terrible sons, and repentent for all Rhaenyra has had to face since Viserys declared her the heir to the iron throne. Maybe it was all for show, but it felt genuine and it makes me sad for what is to come. But with her knowing about the song of Ice and Fire, she will be convinced that her son is meant to defend the realm. That definitely flipped a switch.

Viserys was the winner of this episode, aside from Daemon and Rhaenyra. Despite the fact that he is on death’s door, he took his place on the Iron Throne! He allowed Daemon to help him, which mirrors how Daemon will help Rhaenyra as she takes her father’s place. He defended the claim of Jace and defended his daughter’s rightful claim. He begged for peace.

Kudos to Rhaenys. I really would like Rhaenyra to tell her what happened to Laenor. That, I think, would cement her loyalty to Team Black.

The family dinner was an awesome scene, even though i wanted to smack that little bitch Aemond by the end of it. I loved Helaena’s comment about Aegon, she is truly the best of the children. Jace and Luke are so gallant and wonderful. Baela and Rhaena are beautiful and grown up. And Joffrey, Aegon, and Viserys are so adorable. I love them all.

And though I have loved everything we have had for Daemyra, it was so satisfying to see them so at peace and settled in their marriage. It is truly a happy and equal partnership, and I cannot wait for them to slay in the Dance to come.

Don’t remind me of their fate...... that comes later......

There was so much to love about this episode!

#daemon x rhaenyra #daemyra #HOTD episode 8 #hotd spoilers

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fictonrantsworld · 6 months

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Lol I just realized during the dinner scene in hotd. helaena's little jab of aegons alcohol addiction was also right after aemond made a jab at him for 'drinking more than a braavosi seahorse'

It's funny bc it's clear that aegon doesn't really think his drinking is that bad and even admonishes aemond for it, with him saying 'I drink just enough' thinking he has won that argument and then a few minutes later his wife jabs at him for his drinking and he can't even argue back.

I'm sure she also did it bc of his transgressions that morning. But she jabbed at his alcohol addiction specifically, right after he argued with aemond that he doesnt have an alcohol issue.

#hotd episode 8 #aegon ii targaryen #helaena targaryen #aemond targaryen #team green #asoiaf #house of the dragon #hotd #hotd thoughts #he cant win against helly #helaena fr heard that convo and put him in his place #fr queen behaviour #queen helaena targaryen #king aegon ii targaryen #hotd spoilers

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starkcontrasts · 2 years

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no no no you're not listening to me: viserys' last moments with his family was all of them sitting supper together, forgiving old wounds and willing to move on, rhaenyra and alicent both putting forth genuine apologies and yes aegon acted up but jace knew better, was raised better, ultimately recognized the fact that aegon's just being a little shit bc that's what he is and so jace extended his patience and toast regardless bc he recognized what this moment meant for all of them and jace took helena's hand to dance with her in front of their gathered family bc he probably remembered how sweet she always was - proved to still be true by her little awkward speech - and he could've offered his hand to baela instead but they both knew it would solidify the mending ties if jace asked helena and they danced and they giggled and they had fun and the rest of the dinner table seemed well and good to leave things as they were and viserys saw all of this. in unimaginable pain and he watched it all. he watched the years of distance and festering distrust be slowly, meticulously, healed one offering of forgiveness and well wishes at a time and viserys finally releases the hold he's had on his pain the whole day so he can go to bed having heard his family's laughter and seen their smiles all around him. and when he died, he sees his love, he sees aemma *cue violent tears*

#everyone's acting was simply spectacular this episode really gave their A game BUT PADDY #GODS PADDY he deserves every award i'm so serious #a king and a dragon till the end #the long walk across the hall and up the throne? i teared up.#just wanting the best for his family? like yes he had his flaws plenty of them and doesn't seem #to have been the best or present father for aegon aemond and helena #but i do believe he loved them #it's just so depressing knowing what happens but at least he got to see that in the end #and aemma in death #house of the dragon #hotd #viserys i targaryen #lord of the tides #hotd episode 8 #hotd spoilers

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drakaripykiros130ac · 7 months

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The truth about why Rhaenyra and Daemon remained on Dragonstone in between episodes 7 and 8

The few greenie supporters that like to comment on videos presenting the confrontation between Rhaenyra, Daemon and Alicent in episode 8, like to make completely false assumptions. They constantly accuse Rhaenyra and Daemon of not taking responsibility for the ill Viserys and not visiting him. They also accuse Rhaenyra of not stepping up and becoming Princess Regent during those years.

If these people were even remotely aware of the actual facts, they would know that Daemon and Rhaenyra had been exiled from King’s Landing after they married without the king’s permission (no doubt Otto and Alicent’s doing). The Hightowers wanted them away because they recognized what the marriage between Rhaenyra and Daemon signified for them - a very strong Targaryen alliance. So, they convinced Viserys to exile them from the capital.

That is why they stayed away for all these years. The time lapse between the two episodes does not directly explain that. They stayed away out of obligation, not choice.

The opportunity for the Hightowers to take control arrived. With Viserys incapacitated and Daemon and Rhaenyra exiled, Otto and Alicent took advantage and did things their way. One of the more obvious changes was the removal of Targaryen symbols in the Keep. Because they couldn’t add the Hightower symbols, they chose something close - symbols of the Seven. Alicent deemed it harmless, but is obviously a power move, and a treasonous one. They ruled for 7 years - and they weren’t very good at it, as proven in episode 9.

Rhaenyra and Daemon returned to King’s Landing out of obligation in the settlement of the succession of Driftmark (due to Corlys’ near death experience). They were summoned. Corlys wanted Lucerys to be his heir. He made that clear. It was his decision, and as the Lord of Driftmark, he has the right to choose his successor.

And now, taking advantage of Corlys’ weakened state, the Hightowers were conspiring with Vaemond to take control of Driftmark. Daemon and Rhaenyra had to return to protect Lucerys’ rightful claim.

Rhaenyra and Daemon knew about Viserys’ weakened state. The expressions on their faces when they talked about him on Dragonstone confirm that. But they didn’t expect to see him looking that badly, when they finally arrived in King’s Landing.

It is natural for Daemon and Rhaenyra to act suspicious of Alicent and Otto, and confront them the way they did.

Viserys was weak, constantly drinking something strange, Otto was acting as King in all but name, Alicent was replacing the Targaryen heraldry (and she doesn’t have any good explanation for it, not to mention that she is a consort. She has no authority to replace the heraldry of the ruling House)…anyone would have acted suspicious of all this. I would have directly accused Alicent and Otto of usurping the throne. And nobody could put it past them to poison Viserys and take over. Because Otto and Alicent are social climbers.

Rhaenyra and Daemon’s suspicions and accusations are completely justified. They are the only ones who truly loved Viserys.

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cjbolan · 2 years

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King Viserys in Episode 8: I WISH WE COULD ALL GET ALONG LIKE WE USED TO IN MIDDLE SCHOOL… I WISH I COULD BAKE A CAKE FILLED WITH RAINBOWS AND SMILES AND EVERYONE WOULD EAT AND BE HAPPY…

(but seriously this was a great episode. Best part was Paddy Considine as Viserys)

#house of the dragon #hotd #hbo #paddy considine #king viserys targaryen #house targaryen #asoiaf #grrm #house of the dragon episode 8 #HOTD episode 8 #funny #incorrect quotes #incorrect mean girls quotes #mean girls #parody

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ayo-cowbelly · 2 years

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pov viserys in HOTD

mans rlly said rhaenyra ONLY

#house of the dragon #hotd #house of the dragon hbo #viserys targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #rhaenyra x daemon #daemyra #alicent hightower #otto hightower #daemon targaryen #meme #hotd meme #house of the dragon spoilers #hotd spoilers #rhaenyra x alicent #house of the dragon meme #house of the dragon episode 8 #hotd episode 8

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horizon-verizon · 25 days

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I wish y’all would be real as to why Rhaenys behaved towards Rhaenyra that way. Yes it the show writing but Rhaenys has been wronged by Rhaenyra in every way when she slept with Daemon at her daughter’s funeral. When she & Daemon “killed” Rhaenys’ son. When she used Rhaena to gain Rhaenys’ support over the Driftmark succession. You lot can do all that yapping about the show but at least interact with it in good faith.

Also Laena wasn’t sidelined cause of Alicent or Rhaenicent, she was sidelined for Daemyra (something y’all clearly support since y’all claim that Daemon was never in love with Laena in F&B). I hate Alicent but y’all gon have to stop blaming that woman for everything. Alicent didn’t forced Rhaenyra disrespect Laena in her own home.

Either anon's talking about this post I wrote OR this post. @pessimisticpigeonsworld wrote.

Anon, why are you trying to make an argument about Rhaenys' attitude against Rhaenyra as a someone who occupies the position she wished she was in by using events that occurred after the ones I describe to support my thoughts about Rhaenyra's rewrite in HotD?!

I described & focused on Rhaenys' behavior in episode 2, not episode 7.

In the post where I talked about Rhaenys' treatment against Rhaenyra, Rhaenyra & Daemon haven't even kissed. Rhaenyra wasn't married yet, and neither had their first kids yet. I am well aware why Rhaenys doesn't like Rhaenyra after episode 7, I never said she was stupid or absolutely wrong for her feelings there towards Rhaenyra.

I, however, was talking about Rhaenys coming out gate trying to lecture Rhaenyra and fans passing it off as "wisdom" when it isn't. You can be well aware of how men will never/be unlikely to ever "accept" a woman as their ruler, but:

Rhaenyra already knows that because she's not stupid nor that mentally-sheltered, so how useful was this "advice"?

advice is instructions for how to perform an act(s) or how to observe certain phenomena for a particular purpose; what about Rhaenys saying "you'd do well to remember no onw wants you, men will rebel against you" sounds like advice and not a complaint and biased prediction wrapped in one?

Now it's not entirely what Rhaenys says, but mainly how she does and why. This is what Rhaenys says:

Quite the opposite. Whether it's to my daughter or to someone else's, your father will remarry sooner than late. His new wife will produce new heirs, and chances are, better than not, that one of those will be male. And when that boy comes of age and your father has passed, the men of the realm will expect him to be heir, not you. Because that is the order of things. ........................................................................... Do you remind your father's men of that [that Rhaenyra will be queen and that they swore to her] as you carry their cups? Here is the hard truth, which no one else has the heart to tell you. Men would sooner put the realm to the torch than see a woman ascend the Iron Throne. And your father is no fool.

Rhaenyra is just standing there. Rhaenys began their conversation.

Rhaenys had been watching Viserys and Laena speak to each other in the gardens, obviously anxious about what a new marriage for her father would mean for her position as well as very likely missing Aemma. NO ONE HAS TO TELL RHAENYRA A THING ABOUT WHAT VISERYS' MARRIAGE TO ANOTHER WOMAN MEANS! The awkwardness is that everyone knows she knows and she know they know and she's expected to chin-up, present herself royally in front of others, etc. while still sometimes grieving. B/C apparently she has no other friends at court, no ladies in waiting, and has never seemingly even approached Laena...the girl who is supposed to be Rhaenyra's greatest friend, as she was in the original story.

This is not how rational, well-intentioned, and constructive communication works. What was the purpose of that initial question that determined the tone and value of the entire conversation? If show!Rhaenys were actually smart, she'd know all this as just basic observation. If we say she does have a brain, then she says the first question as a rhetorical question just to draw Rhaenyra into an confrontation. Instead, Rhaenys calls her out on emotions that any normal person in Rhaenyra's position would feel, poking the wound, to tell her "to bad, but you should have known".

What's funny is that even if Rhaenys were giving advice in good faith and not just to express resentment, she could still "poke the wound" in a way to get Rhaenyra to focus on thinking constructively OR to distract her & give her new perspective. Anger is a good way to get someone out of their funk.

Use the words about Viserys going to marry again because that's "the way" of things as way to segue into asking what Rhaenyra thought she could do or was thinking of doing about the scenario where Viserys remarried and had sons.

Or this could have been a scene where these two commiserate: Rhaenys askes that question, Rhaenyra either doesn't answer and Rhaenys goes on to how she reacted when she was voted against with some sort of anecdote OR Rhaenyra answers and the two remark on men ruling the realm, where Rhaenyra even could have acknowledged that Rhaenys should have been queen or would have been a great one.

Instead, we get hostility, like how--in the 2nd post I already linked and reblogged--this on top of the Laenyra erasure//quick blowup of the nonsensical Rhaenicent relationship perpetuates a stereotype of female friendships being unstable and unfulfilling because:

we constantly view each other as threats/rivals and can't have truly healthy relationships with other women [female friendship is] entrenched in rivalry and toxicity and can quickly be turned to enmity

What offense did Rhaenyra give to Rhaenys for Rhaenys to pick at her? How does this make someone more amenable to you trying to give them unsolicited "advice"?! Again, epi2!Rhaenyra hadn't "killed" anyone atp. Is not even lusty after Daemon yet. A conversation that began with Rhaenya trying to confront Rhaenys instead of actually drawing her into a conversation where Rhaenyra could be receptive to a real attempt at advice.

And later on in that post, I talked about how Rhaenys' words to Alicent (not Rhaenyra!) is further proof of how she is not what HotD or many fans claims she is, which is "wise". You can't be "wise" and then foist a lot of your resentment on another girl who is in the place you wished you were. "Petty" (of this level) and "wise" are antithetical.

I was not talking about Rhaenys. Laenor left of his own accord, he could've stayed. But he wanted to leave his parents behind. So you, and I mean you, can't say that show!Rhaenyra took anything away from Rhaenys. Rhaenys can feel those things, because she doesn't know. We have no excuse as the viewers, though, to feel and think like her.

As for Rhaena, you say:

When she used Rhaena to gain Rhaenys’ support over the Driftmark succession.

Rhaenys obviously refused to give Rhaenyra an answer:

Rhaenyra: I wondered for many an hour what your purpose was in coming here. Whether you'd speak for or against the suit brought by Ser Vaemond. But then, I realized... you intend to advocate for yourself. (thunder rumbling) This is no fair proceeding. It is a trap set by the Queen and the Hand, I'd wager, to proclaim my son illegitimate. Rhaenys: Yet you did worse than that with Laenor. Did you not? Rhaenyra: I loved your son. You may not believe it to be true, but I did. I did not order his death. Nor was I complicit in it. I swear this to you. (pause) I'll make you an offer. Back Luke's claim, and let us betroth Laena's children to mine. Baela will be Queen of the Seven Kingdoms and her sons will be heirs to the throne. Rhaena will rule in Driftmark, and... the seat will pass to her and Lucerys's children in time. Rhaenys: A generous offer. Or a desperate one. Rhaenyra: What does it matter? Rhaenys: You are right in this, at least. It does not matter. You can bargain with me all you like. Bring my granddaughter with you to soften my resolve. But tomorrow, the Hightowers land their first blow. They force you to your knees... and I must stand alone.

So idk why you are making as if Rhaenyra succeeded in convincing Rhaenys to support Lucerys' claim through that move in particular.

Rhaenyra had to cry to Viserys' paper-thin cask of a body to get him up later. And Rhaenys really speaks about Corlys' wish for Lucerys after Viserys finally shows up and beats back against the greens' running roughshod. Bad writing aside, this is the intent. We were supposed to be as anxious as Rhaenyra, holding our breath as to how Rhaenys would choose to answer in the hearing.

Don't Corlys AND Rhaenys approach Viserys with their daughter with their pitch of joining their houses, strengthening those two houses? Was that not business, as Rhaenya does in her offer to marry Baela to Jacaerys so Baela becomes Queen and Rhaen rules jointly with Lucerys in their own proposed marriage? Laena's marriage to Viserys was for Corlys' ambition, not Rhaenys' satisfaction, while here Rhaenya is at least trying to appeal to Rhaenys directly. And neither Baela nor Rhaena were going to lose anything in this deal, but stood to have a lot to gain without having to be so young as Laena was to get it, with men the same age or just a bit younger than their own parents.

I'm sorry that the show made it so that Rhaenyra--or anyone with their exact circumstances--looked like she was trying to fuck Rhaenys about by dangling Rhaena even while she knows Rhaenys doesn't trust or loke her, but realistically we know Rhaenys would have visited Rhaena often on Dragonstone and vice versa.

Look up Dragonstone and Driftmark on a map, you'll see a dragon ride is practically light work for Rhaenys and a boat to Driftmark is not so big a deal for Rhaena.

Yes, even with Rhaenys being left to be the overseer of Driftmark in Corlys' absence. Unless you're saying that in HotD these two locations are so far apart Rhaenys nor Rhaena could spare a day of a visitation to each other, this is the fact. Even if HotD's universe had these locations far apart, you best believe that Rhaenys could and would still fly back and forth. Bad writing.

The context matters here, too. In the context of Rhaenys believing Daemon & Rhaenyra were both somehoe responsible for Laenor's "death"....If the writers of HotD decide to make Rhaenyra perform such a transparent act knowing/not knowing how strange it would be for Rhaenyra to try to convince Rhaenys when she knows Rhaenys blames her for Laenor's "death"...they are deliberately making a situation that really didn't need to be as mortifying as it was. Because again, Rhaenyra is made to try to finagle Rhaenys and do it in a way that's not... respectful with Laenor's death and the accusation floating around their heads.

Without the accusation of the Laenor-death thing, this could have been the understanding amongst the audience instead: Rhaenyra had already come with the entire family she & Daemon raised on Dragonstone, wouldn't it have been weird if she left Rhaena behind? Especially since she knew Rhaenys would come with Baela?

Yeah--as it is--she's making an opportunity of Rhaenys getting to see her granddaughter/Rhaenys' happiness, but is she really "using" Rhaena nefariously? She's not threatening Rhaenys with the possibility of not allowing Rhaena to see her again or keeping her hostage. What Rhaenyra was--or could have been doing if the writers blah blah blah--was more like someone bringing their kid to their parents' place not just because they had very important to do at said location or something very important to pick up and had to bring said kid, but to also ask their parent for advice or anything really. Whether or not the stakes are high for the parent/asker in Rhaenyra-Rhaenys' case, there simply was no malicious intent, a malicious effect, nor any disrespect. You're saying you never did something similar with a person you knew didn't like you or was angry with you?

I also find it hilarious how you protest against Rhaenyra's actions here and not Rhaenys' episode 2 ones where she PURPOSEFULLY gets into an argument to just throw her angst onto Rhaenyra. Because at least Rhaenyra is trying to get shit done and benefit all parties involved instead of tearing people down!

Because let's think for a second here...what if Rhaenys had advocated for herself to become the head of House Velaryon? Who's the heir she's ruling for and will pass down the leadership to? Would the house itself accept her as its head with Corlys still out there and no confirmation of his demise? Neither Baela nor Rhaena were named his heir in any will.

But more importantly, the greens would have still backed Vaemond...because he is a Velaryon man, they are trying to substantiate Aegon's claim to the throne as a man, they anticipate obtaining a very loyal man in the new hypothetical Vaemond-head of the house with the largest fleet (Rhaenys wants to stay out of it), and despite her not wanting to be a part of the war, Baela 100% was going to participate in some way/she is Daemon's daughter (Daemon's never sitting this one out and he definitely couldn't even if he thought to bc he married and had kids with Rhaenyra...he'd never want to bc both that and he sees Otto as the "true" Targs' enemy...his daughters by a Velaryon daughter would, the greens think, need to be "contained" and will always be seen as a possible threat). She is not a member of House Velaryon even though by blood, spirit & love she is technically a Velaryon.

It would have been better for Rhaenys to not arrive at the Keep at all and try to just take over Driftmark herself, but then we will have to really think about the house's reaction & whether or not she'd risk the fallout. I don't see this Rhaenys doing that.

So much for "wise" Rhaenys. [post by @rhaenyragendereuphoria]

4. *SLIGHT DIGRESSION*

Show!Rhaenyra was under stress in the book to get Luke Driftmark, but it was a choice to make her that subdued and rejected. I think we should also go back and really see how everything was shot, the color grade, Emma's posture during and after her talk with Rhaenys. It's a picture of almost accepted dejection, a mood of quiet desperation.

Where is the impatience and indignation that matches the "proud" woman GRRM describes in So Spake Martin?:

She was very proud and stubborn ............................................... Though Rhaenyra could be charming, she was quick to anger and never forgot a slight.

Read that description, consider how Rhaenyra feeds Vaemond's corpse to Syrax, and let me know if you truly think that this change into a paled and mortified waif is a good change? Not because you can't be sad, but because Rhaenyra has been converted away from her passionate original Adult!self into a dourer, less self asserting person.

While of course it can and does often happen, It is certainly not a guarantee that a person gets more...reserved even in the face of Rhaenyra went through. This was still a choice from one of the silent options the writers had and then decided to go with to make her more palatable to more people who are looking for a more "peace for peace sake" element (nothing wrong with peace and trying to avoid war, but GRRM wrote F&B writing this for Dany's rise AND Gyladyn writing F&B as propaganda against female leadership doesnt invalidate or erase how:

there absolutely was a wrong side (the greens)

that, yes, Rhaenyra, by GRRM's own words & instructions to Amok, outside of F&B (artist who drew the official image of her and all the ruling Targs/their consorts except Daemon) was much less reserved or dour & more confrontational as her own personality than show!Rhaenyra

Repetition: Their/the writers' trying to create a story for that doesn't make the fact that bk!Rhaenyra was much fierier than this go away or false. Again, GRRM describes who Rhaenyra was OUTSIDE OF F&B! (So Spake Martin).

Also, she has had 6 years of happy times with Daemon by the beginning of the 8th episode, we couldn't get Rhaenyra make at least some snide comebacks at Vaemond?!

Okay, let's say that F&B is unreliable, two canons, etc (true enough)....why are we acting this is the best or only way to write how the Driftmark claim and Rhaenyra's bearing?!! Why are we (the HotD writers) choosing to make Rhaenyra seem to have so many helpless images of tolerant agency-lessness? Why are we choosing to make Rhaenys so hostile form the beginning to the very last episode, only when Rhaenyra shows her what she thinks is good for the "realm" and (when the war with the greens was inevitable if the green usurped Rhaenyra and she is expected to at least plan how to get it back without/as little bloodshed as possible)? Why are we making Rhaenyra so destitute in positive female connections when there's proof of otherwise in the original story?! There is a difference between having 0 to having 2-3 good connections out of much more bad or neutral ones!

Why are we choosing to rely on one negative stereotype of women...to avoid another perceived negative stereotype against of women?!

And once more, just bc the book is unreliable in terms of who's telling what, how, and for what reason (Septon Eustace dislike of Rhaenyra with the deal with her bleeding from the throne and other things, Mushroom's hypersexualizing and objectifying her while seemingly favorable, Gyldayn's sexism towards Nettles, etc.) doesn't mean that characterizations, events, dates, appearances in Fire & Blood are totally subject to interpretation and absolute changes. Otherwise we can say that Daemon or Viserys were totally different people and re-characterize Daemon as a scholar--a Samwell Tarly-- for life who never hurt a life and only went to war to supervise command over the Stepstones wars from a tent!! Or we could make Nettles into someone who insults everyone she meets after finally getting a dragon, high on a victory she never got to have. Or we could make Mysaria into a crybaby and have her controlled by some john with aspirations for throne instead of a woman who independently worked with Daemon to do horrible shit, and that's how she becomes even more victimized into her eventual death. We could then write Otto to be the brash, unsecretive agent pushing Viserys through glaringly obvious intimidation insteadof the staid politician and manipulator that he was.

Why is it that with these women, we're okay with them becoming their polar opposites?!!! Why are women take with being the "voice of reason" and men show destructive anger, or just hot anger and indignation? Why are women the ones keeping males' "natural" warring in check as if they themselves have not also sprung for wars in real life?! Why are women in HotD (more often than not) the failed keepers of men and the ones to temper their male aggression & ambition?

The final paragraph of the Introduction of the anthology Dangerous Women, where GRRM wrote "The Princess and the Queen". Which is the precursor of Fire & Blood, and relates essentially the Blacks and the Greens chapter of F&B:

I really don't think GRRM is making the agency of these women a value of total 0 when he frames both Alicent & Rhaenyra choosing to assert themselves & their real or perceived rights through this war as them NOT being "hapless victims who stand by whimpering in dread".

You:

Watsonianly: Daemyra still likely happens in Fire & Blood, before Daemon's married to Laena. They all stay close, esp Rhaenyra and Laena, before Laena dies. Their relationship was in no way extant JUST BC Daemon happened to be there. The language doesn't allow that. They rode dragons together several times, ffs! Even while we can guess Rhaenyra & Daemon still were very attracted to each other while they hung out & Laena likely knew, she was never sidelined but a central part of a new unit.

..so...idk what to tell you.

Doylisticaly: GRRM has said Daemon was written for Rhaenyra and that this was one of the thing he loved most about Daemon.

They were literally written to be each others' great loves and Daemon & Rhaenyra were always meant to propogate the Targ line to Daenerys Stormborn. If we argue that Laena was sidelined here, we'd have to say she was sidelined for the entire Targaryen bloodline leading up to Dany, you know. Then we'd have to say Mysaria and Nettles, Alicent and Aemond and Aegon II, etc. all were. Nah.

I actually argued that he was in love with Laena...but it was a different relationship than the one with Rhaenyra (and all the 3 posts that one gives). Not the same sort of passion. Another post by pessimisticpigeon HERE more explains it, too.

#asoiaf asks to me #rhaenys targaryen #rhaenys targaryen (aemon's daughter)#rhaenyra targaryen #hotd characterization #hotd episode 2 #hotd episode 8 #hotd episode 7 #hotd critical #hotd writing #rhaenyra's characterization #rhaenys targaryen's characterization (meleys' rider)#hotd #asoiaf

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