#claude doesn't need byleth in the way the other three lords do
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To be fair CF is just as much about found family than VW
Hi anon! I'm gonna link the post I talked about the Golden Deer here for clarity's sake lol.
I think when discussing themes of found family in different three houses routes, it's important to talk about Byleth. In a game where the single, main variable between possible futures is Byleth's interference, it means the story has to be written in a particular way--I mentioned this before when talking about character supports and endings; each character needs to be able to have a romantic ending with Byleth, which affects how their supports are written. In the case of the Lord's, this means you're given tangible reasons why you should've chosen them.
I mean. Let's be real here. Claude has the highest survivability rate of any character in the base game. He can't die if you're completing Verdant Wind (for obvious reasons), or Blue Lions. He's heavily implied to live to see another day in Silver Snow, and you can spare him in Crimson Flower! Edelgard and Dimitri die without the professor's stabilizing influence--but Claude? What does he lose without the professor.
That's sort of how I determine subtler themes of each route in a way--by comparing what you get with and without Byleth.
So when I argue that Verdant Wind is the most about found family, I mean it thematically; the other routes don't have tangible less found family, but without Byleth members of the Golden Deer just blatantly disappear unrecruited post time skip in several routes!
Without Byleth, the option for found family is removed for Claude in a big way, I personally feel, and not just by full recruitment runs lol. Not completely, of course--even in Crimson Flower a recruited Lorenz laments having to face off against Claude and Hilda is willing to die in defense of him and the city--but enough that it was blatantly shocking to me that if you don't recruit Marianne, she does not appear at all post time skip, no exceptions.
In a narrative sense, perhaps slightly unshocking; but in a practical sense? This leaves Claude without a healer.
Claude can't hold onto all his Deer even if you don't recruit any of them in the Academy phase. Silver Snow, Azure Moon, Crimson Flower--Marianne will always be gone; consistent, non variable. Depending on the route other characters like Lorenz might disappear as well.
The themes of found family are prevalent in all the routes, but since each route is pretty much defined by the Lord who leads it, I feel as though their personal relationship with the found family is most defining, if that makes sense.
People stand by Edelgard, Dimitri, and even Rhea for better, or for worse. Even recruited, characters like Felix make it abundantly clear that switching sides doesn't change the immense emotional attachment they have to their original lord.
This just. Isn't true for Claude.
Without Byleth, he doesn't get to keep everyone together. Without Byleth Hilda is recruitable in two routes. The idea that you could ever do the same with Hubert or Dedue is blatantly laughable.
Byleth's presence is what enables Edelgard, Dimitri, and Rhea to remain the most of themselves, if that makes sense. Edelgard's war strategy in Crimson Flower is a lot less aggressive and scorched earth then it is in the other two routes because she's had the professor as an emotional rock. Similarly for Dimitri, he's able to recover because Byleth is there to keep him alive and safe. And then Rhea will blatantly die in the Verdant Wind route where she doesn't in Silver Snow. Byleth, in every sense of the word, keeps these three characters alive and well.
But without her? They still inspire loyalty and devotion--unquestionable, again, if no recruitment takes place. Dimitri, Edelgard, and Rhea can all face up against you as enemies with the full force of their houses/allies (save for, oddly, Annette).
Claude does not.
Claude's whole route is about learning to trust others in a way that allows them to trust him. The Deer are devoted to Claude in Verdant Wind in a way they just, textually aren't otherwise, and that's due to Byleth's influence, both as a Professor to these individual students, and to Claude.
When I say that Verdant Wind is the most found family thematically to me, I mean it at a very base level. Claude knows he doesn't have what Dimitri and Edelgard seem to take for granted. It seems almost effortless, in Verdant Wind, the loyalty and devotion he inspires in his friends despite how often you, as Byleth, are told that Claude appears to be an untrustworthy and sneaky individual.
But it's easy to see in routes where you don't chose him that without Byleth, that image mantains. Claude is an outsider. And maybe he doesn't need Byleth in the way the other lords do to survive or achieve his dream (after all, there's nothing saying he can't open diplomacy with his former classmates after he goes back to Almyra so long as he lives to do so), but just as Byleth is uniquely able to be a peer to the Golden Deer, so can Claude uniquely trust and gain the trust of his house in full.
It's not as dramatic as the other two houses, and I think it's the point. Edelgard and Dimitri have already built a solid foundation of devotion and loyalty. Ferdinand and Felix (your "rival" characters in those houses) are loyal without Byleth, even if Ferdinand claims it's to guide her or if Felix complains every step of the way. Lorenz isn't. In Verdant Wind, you sort of take it for granted that everyone will be there at the reunion if they survived the Academy phase. Of course they will--they promised, didn't they?
But outside Verdant Wind, it's clear to see that you as the player took it for granted. And that's why I think Verdant Wind is thematically the most found family. It's not because the other routes don't love each other as much or aren't as complex or there isn't devotion. It's because fundamentally Verdant Wind is about Claude, for the first time in his life, having a group of people he can rely on and who will rely on him without hesitation. It's about the formation of found family, and how Claude doesn't need it to achieve his dreams, but man, does it give him something to achieve those dreams for.
#fe3h#twila talks#twila answers#claude von riegan#edelgard von hresvelg#dimitri alexandre blaiddyd#verdant wind route#lorenz hellman gloucester#marianne von edmund#thank you for the ask anon!!!#I think the themes of found family in the other three routes are very prevalent just different#whereas claude's route is really about the formation of a found family and him being able to keep it you know?#claude doesn't need byleth in the way the other three lords do#but that means he DOES need byleth in a way those other three don't if that makes sense#again byleth is the fulcrum on which this universe/narrative spins so the way you judge a lot of this in my mind#is to see what happens when byleth is or isn't there#i mean look at three hopes lol#didn't talk too much about the effects of found family on edelgard or dimitri here because i don't want to be here all day lol#BUT suffice to say found family does affect them uniquely IN their routes even if they still have it outside their routes#and again all this is influenced and informed by shared history and power dynamics etc etc#it's also important to me to talk about the way each of the four routes differentiates in clear ways from the other#anyways this is my golden deer propaganda follow me for more or send me asks for a timely multi paragraph response#sdfhsjkdf
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i. hate this. so. much.
like. what a way to say Claude isn't actually intelligent. can't make his own plans and/or execute them without someone's help. this guy survived most of his life avoiding being assassinated. literally, starting from childhood.
there is absolutely no way his schemes/plans/etc are "nothing" or "just words" without Byleth. Byleth was only in his life for a single fucking year at this point, then out of his life for five straight years.
it's one thing to have a friendship that's made him open up more for the first time ever, etc etc. but his intellect? everything he pours into his plans? Byleth gets all the credit for that?
I don't hate Byleth, but I do hate that Byleth completely wipes all sense of agency from Claude. I do hate that Claude considers his plans and such to be worthless without Byleth. I do hate that Byleth's existence in Claude's life makes him reliant on Byleth - something he absolutely is not in any other route.
I'm mixed on VW specifically because of this. it feels like he gets more done in the other routes by his own hand. he's shown to never need Byleth to get things done. he managed to keep the Alliance steady and neutral for five whole years without Byleth's influence. suddenly Byleth is back, and Claude insists he couldn't have convinced the Alliance lords to go with his plans without Byleth representing the Church.
wouldn't Seteth do more in that regard? he's a known and active member of the Church who has been there for years. he's known to be Rhea's second in command. wouldn't the Alliance lords respond better to the well known and respected Seteth, who is fighting alongside them in war, than to a complete stranger that they're seeing for the very first time? than a complete stranger just walking in claiming to be there to represent Rhea/the Church? why would they even believe that to be true if they didn't trust Claude?
but yet, they trusted Claude enough for the Alliance not to collapse into complete chaos during wartime. but all of a sudden Byleth's existence is the only reason why Claude can do... literally anything?
Byleth, as an individual, is a good character. Byleth, as the player's proxy, is an absolutely terrible character in two, arguably three routes.
in VW, this stuff
in CF, Edelgard apparently can't fight her war properly and has been sad for five years without Byleth... but in the other routes she's perceived to be in love with Byleth there too, and she can wage her war just fine without being unable to do what she set out to do because Byleth isn't there
in SS, the Church just follows Byleth without question and without raising an eyebrow. "Rhea said so" is pretty much the only reason. granted, Seteth openly didn't trust Byleth at first, but he's the only one. I do understand that Rhea wanted Byleth to take over after her and all that, but you could also still argue that the player proxy just walked in and took over the Church; hence, I can see it both ways for SS
I'd argue it's the worst in VW, because at least the Empire is still winning in CF (which if it's the player chosen route, then the player chosen route always wins), and it's winning the war in all routes at the start of the timeskip. Edelgard doesn't attribute the Empire's victories to Byleth in any way (that I can recall) while Byleth isn't present. In VW, as soon as Byleth is back, after the Alliance has been on rocky ground for five years, suddenly everything is different now and they can totally definitely absolutely win. no thanks to Claude, of course, because Byleth is here now!
like, it just makes all of the victories go to Byleth's hands and never Claude's. I hate how VW treats Claude. it's his own route, but he's made to look significantly more competent in all the other routes.
the thing is, I love Claude, and this just ain't it. Claude's victories should go to Claude. Claude's credit should go to Claude. Claude's intellect and ability to plan, maneuver and scheme should go to Claude. Byleth didn't do any of it. Byleth fought in the actual battles and... apparently leads their army (instead of Claude???)??? Byleth didn't come up with anything, only fighting in the actual battles.
and tbh, how is Claude going to inspire trust and loyalty with the other lords if... he can't even lead and has to rely on the current leader of the Church? if his victories aren't attributed to him, why should the other lords have faith in him? if Claude himself is going to demean his intelligence in favor of Byleth's prowess on the battlefield, why should the other lords trust him as their leader?
if Claude is only capable of inspiring neutrality and not victory, he's not a good leader... and that's a problem with the writing, because he is a good leader. he's shown to be a great leader in AM/CF. if they felt on the verge on disastrous infighting with Claude leading them but all settled down for Byleth, what good is Claude compared to Byleth?
and I absolutelyyyyy fucking hate that. VW is Claude's route, and yet it shoves him down for Byleth at all possible opportunities - even unnecessary ones!
Byleth is obviously the player proxy and thus has a strong effect on all routes, but it feels so much more notorious to me on VW. it's the only route that straight up degrades its lord in favor of the player proxy - and in fact has the lord basically outright state themselves as useless without said player proxy.
Claude deserves so much better than this.
I know people say like "Dimitri fans just prefer AM Claude because of Dimitri" and shit, but like... no, I just hate that VW!Claude is treated like an afterthought to Byleth. He's treated so much better by the narrative in the other routes. He can be who he always was, and especially who he was at the beginning of the game (just with growth later on). no Byleth is better for him in the sense that the writing doesn't push him under Byleth's boot.
Byleth isn't better than him in every goddamn regard in the other routes, and he even declines joining the Kingdom army because he has other things to do. He doesn't bow down to Byleth and say it's all thanks to our dear Teach that the Alliance survived. He credits Dimitri and the Kingdom for the help, and he specifically requested Dimitri's help and not Byleth's.
There's no player proxy obsession from Claude in AM. The closest we get is Claude saying if Byleth had chosen him over Dimitri, which is a brief thought he cuts off and otherwise attributes the rescue to the Kingdom army and Dimitri's quick decision to take action and go help them.
At least for me, that's why I prefer AM Claude (and even CF Claude is better than VW Claude's behavior about Byleth). He's not second to Byleth. He's not second to anyone. He defends his country and will even stay to the death to protect them. He's their leader and he acts the part. VW treats him like a figurehead who is second to Byleth, basically making Claude second to the Church.
They're not even treated as equals. Claude is straight up degraded, even by himself, in favor of Byleth.
Buddy. I. Hate. That.
#DCB Three Houses Run#this is a big fat rant on why i hate vw claude's treatment - in his own goddamn route!#claude deserved so much fckn better than this but the writers said no! byleth gets all the credit for everything ever!#i like vw bc claude and lorenz get more depth shown to us but like...#i have veeeery mixed feelings on it bc how they treat claude in his own route#anyway if you think i hate claude bc of this post you're an idiot i'm just sayin'
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Personal thoughts on this man
Uhh spoilers? I don't know.
Okay, okay, so first off let me be clear: I hate this man. And I have come to accept that I will never like him. Yes, I know he is fictional, and yes, I know that there are plenty of people who will cuss me out and curse my name in their sleep for stating that I hate this man, but there it is. I hate Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd. BUT! Just because I hate a character doesn't mean that my opinions are invalid or that your own feelings on him aren't. It's just... everytime I play the game I feel like my feelings need to be heard. Like I'm betraying myself for not at least saying it. So please, allow me to air my dirty laundry for a bit.
I feel like there are 2 sides to every person who has experienced Dimitri's story. You either fell in love with him, or you're like me and hated how his arc panned out. To put it plain and short, I feel that the game spends too much time on Dimitri for any of the game's other themes to make sense. And it especially hinders how the other 3 main protagonists- Edelgard, Claude and Byleth are perceived and written. I also feel that the game often contradicts Dimitri, but decides to sidestep over it in order to progress the story or have Dimitri move forward in his leading role.
I think what it all comes down to, is me wanting to bend the variables to have a story that I like. And to have a story that I feel is justly written. Because there are things about Dimitri's arc that I think are compelling, but ultimately they are brushed aside to adhere to Fire Emblem norms or archetypes. A common phrase I hear about Dimitri is how he is sort of a deconstruction of the typical Fire Emblem lord. (A quick run down of what a typical Fire Emblem lord is: A young, idyllic young man who values justice, life and honor. They also have a fondness for the color blue.) Dimitri fits this description to a T. His native house is called the Blue Lions, he's passionate about his training, eager to help others and he desires to lead his country to peace above all else.
But what makes him a deconstruction of the Fire Emblem lord is his dramatic change during the time skip. We go from a bright eyed teenager, to edge incarnate. Suddenly Dimitri can't stop talking to the ghosts that he keeps hallucinating, and he no longer seems to value the lives of his comrades or enemies. Because of how the cards are set in this story, we cannot change how the characters ineract in this story. My best example of this flaw is the character that you play as: Byleth.
Byleth is in many ways, a bad player insert for the world of Three Houses. They must fill a silent protagonist role, so they don't voice a lot of concerns that players might have during part 1. But, also in many ways, Byleth is an interesting person to play as in Three Houses' story. But it comes with a lot of pros and cons. Sometimes I feel that they are better utilized in different stories, because in Dimitri's Azure Moon path, they are what I consider, to be the worst version of themselves in the game. This is what I mean when I say that I find parts of Dimitri's arc to be compelling, but is ultimately hindered by variables that cannot change. Byleth is the biggest variable that I wish I could change.
Over the course of White Clouds (part 1) Byleth is great, because this part of the game has to stay the same for all 4 story paths. With Dimitri, Byleth is a great mentor for him, and they feel like they have a strong student and teacher bond. But that's just it, when the time comes for Dimitri to need actual real guidance, they do absolutely nothing. They don't try to step in and relate to what he's going through, they just kinda stand there and watch as their star pupill slowly descends into madness. It's agonizing.
They stay silent during cutscenes where Dimitri is verbally assaulting them and his comrades, and they don't try to go against any of his poorly conceived battle strategies. This is where it really sucks to have this be a videogame. Because there are tons of people, people like myself, who will just skip the cutscenes where Dimitri is being an asshole and miss his arc completely. I'm not saying that the writers shouldn't have made Dimitri so unbearable, because I get that the point of it all is to drive home how bad his depression and trauma has gotten. But I do think that there is a certain tolerance level with each player. I mean, I really have to credit Chris Hackney, the english voice actor for Dimitri for this. Because part of the reason why I find this part of the game to be so unbearable is due to how phenomenal his performance was. Great job!👍
My ultimate stance is that the game sacrifices too much of its time to Dimitri's arc for Edelgard, Claude, or even Rhea make sense. The route is so focused on one singular conflict, that it has to shut everything else out. And that, in my opinion is too much of a sacrifice. I haven't even detailed on how contradictory and stupid Dimitri's revenge plot is. His obsession with Edelgard is completely unfounded and his philosophy on mourning is too self damaging. He's just... an extreme hyperbole of a type of person that I cannot stand.
I think what the developers were trying to say about Dimitri and this ideal of revenge, avenging, mouring and loss, is beautiful, but misguided. I can point to several works in fiction that don't drive me up the wall nearly as much as Dimitri does. Here's one: Katara's mother complex in the Nickelodeon cartoon, Avatar the Last Airbender. Katara was consumed by hatred over the death of her mother, even going as far as to claim that she loved her mother more than her brother. In an episode in season 3, Katara hunts down her mother's killer to exact her revenge, but loses her nerves at the last moment, realizing that he wasn't worth it. In the end she lets out her anger and grief, feeling lighter and ready to move on. In a vacuum, Dimitri's entire arc is better expressed and explained in Katara's one episode, than the entirety of Azure Moon.
By now I think I have properly explained why I will never, EVER like Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd. But in the interest of positivity, I'll name the parts of Dimitri that I like. (There are very few.)
First of all, I like White Clouds Dimitri. He is charming, naive, and innocently fighting for his "justice." While there are still many moments of his facade slipping, he is still able to maintain this pristine princely image of himself. He's set up really well is what I mean. You can tell through small glimpses in his supports or moments in the main storyline where he's hiding something more, but he makes sure to put a lid on it. When I first played Three Houses, I picked the Blue Lions because I was curious about Dimitri. Knowing what I know now about him, I can't say that I wasn't disappointed, but the build up to the war phase is brilliantly done through the Blue Lions and Dimitri.
Dimitri's route is the only route in the game that has a specialized cutscene of Edelgard's reveal to being the Flame Emperor.
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It's extremely well done, and it really highlights just how much of himself he's kept at bay. This is the moment where Dimitri snaps, and everything turns red. As someone who has spent over hundreds of hours into this game, I can firmly say that Dimitri did Edelgard's reveal best.
The second thing that I like about Dimitri, is how he is shown after his arc. Once Dimitri realizes that killing people out of anger is wrong, he seems to go back to his teenage self, but this is not technically true. After his transformation he does seem more friendly, but I would say that he is more grounded. Instead of trying to fiegn happiness, he is more plain spoken and somber. It's there that you can see and understand the long standing affects of his trauma and depression. In his A supports with Flayn (supports that are only available when Dimitri goes back to being sane again,) he confesses that he hasn't been able to taste anything since he lost his family. This is a symptom of PTSD. Just the way that his depression and trauma is written through little easy to miss facts like this, is wonderful.
This version of Dimitri is honestly refreshing. He's not over acting his happiness like he did during part 1, and he's not on the other end of that spectrum being 100% rage consumed with ghost speech. This is a version of Dimitri that has been through the wringer. He's learned his mistake and is now finally moving forward. In a way, he draws many parallels to the version of himself that's shown in Three Hopes. In that game, he's shown to be quite pensive, but still a kind person at heart. Similar to how he acts in Three Houses after his transformation, he's not angry anymore. A bit delusional at times, but sane enough to know that what he's really feeling is pain over losing loved ones. The variables in Three Hopes are also different, which is probably why I found Dimitri to actually be somewhat enjoyable there.
Honestly, I wished that the version we see of Dimitri in Three Hopes was the one that greeted us after the time skip in Three Houses. He's still sullen and talking to the dead like they're really there, but it's watered down. And in the main story of Three Hopes he makes no mention of it (thank god.) Three Hopes has many problems that plague its story for all 3 routes, but as a whole, Dimitri is much more pleasant to be around in that game.
Lastly, I believe that Dimitri works best as a villain. When he's an enemy commander, he's not someone who you should feel sympathy for. In all of the opposing routes from his, Dimitri is either shown to be a brutal killing machine that enjoys desecrating corpses and killing people, or in Crimson Flower (Edelgard's route) he's shown to be the kind of leader that relies on using others to win. Before you fight him, you're shown in the cutscene that he's betting on the Church of Serios to strike first, and that he plans to use them as a meat shield essentially. Dimitri's Crimson Flower depiction is the only time, other than playing his own personal route, where he's not completely bloodthirsty. People like to say that because he's not totally crazy here, that Edelgard is the reason for his extreme hatred and anger.
I would argue that while it's not shown through extreme hyperbole, Dimitri is still that same savage boar that he was in all of the other routes. He's held back, but it's a more realistic telling of his anger. Morose, passive agressive, and deceitful. Maybe even hopeless. He still loathes the Empire and by extension, Edelgard, we just don't see all of it because the story is not focused on him. Consider how compliant he was to some of Rhea's more dubious tactics and how in his final battle, planned to used the Church as bait. When you see all of the versions of Dimitri that are possible in the Three Houses Franchise, then it's up to you to decide whether or not his actions should be met with death.
I'm of course on the negative. I don't think going around all angry and murder-ey is a good enough excuse for your depression. And I'm alarmed that everyone in Dimitri's company just silently obeyed without question. Nobody stopped and pointed out that Dimitri is clearly not in a good state of mind to lead? Really? Any kind of appreciation I have for Dimitri is only available when I think of him as a man who died a foolish death. Dimitri witnessed his family killed in front of him when he was a young boy. He spent the rest of his adolescence in mourning and planning a way to get his revenge, all while feigning a pristine princely image. By the time he enrolls in the academy he's already let his demons control him, and when the time skip occurs we see those demons on full display. Now he's brutally killing and enjoying killing imperial soldiers. He doesn't care about anyone, and will use his friends as tools with no remorse. He claims that his work is just and that his deeds are for the greater good, but all it is is pointless aggression. (Really stupid aggression at that too...)
No part of that feels like he should be redeemed to me. I just feel like Dimitri's entire arc is better learned as a tragic tale. When he dies as a consequence to his actions there's almost a sense of relief, like a weight has been lifted. When the ending to his story is death, then you can better understand what went wrong, and what his mistakes bought him. Poetic justice in a sense. If he truly was just too kind a person to be king, and he let the pressure torture and nurse his grudge, then he should've let somebody else be king. There's like, a whole line of people who seek to reform not just the kingdom, but also Fodlan as a whole. Let them have the job. That's the moral I guess.
Well, there you have it. My feelings about the game, the character, and the story of Dimitri. I tried to avoid going into parts of his character (AKA analyzing his mental illness and philosophy,) because I've done that so many times in other writings that I have, that I just don't have the energy to tell you why I think it's incredibly flawed. It's strange to think about how long my relationship with this game has been, and how long my relationship has been with Dimitri has been as well.
I've never quite had a character make me feel this agitated, agitated enough to write feature length films on why I fucking hate him so much. Crazy huh? It's times like this where I have to remind myself that it's just a game. A game about anime teenagers killing themselves in a turn based rpg. Oh man, what am I doing? Okay, to wrap up, here's a quote from the Gronder fight during the time skip and you have Claude and Dimitri fight each other:
“Claude: Calm down, Dimitri! What does it achieve, us killing each other here? Dimitri: Move, Claude. I have no time to exchange words with you. Claude: It doesn't matter what I'm saying, does it? You aren't even listening. But I'm not gonna budge.”
"Kill every last one of them!"
#fire emblem#fire emblem three houses#three houses#essay#opinion#thought dump#I also did not grammar or spell check this#I'm also new to tumblr hi#dimitri critical#dimitri negative
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Tweet I found: "Fire Emblem takes one of the most beloved FE protagonists and makes him live up to the promise of being a morally gray genius who plays both sides ON TOP of giving him a character arc."
I'm sorry, WHAT? One, Claude was only ever originally thought of as anything CLOSE to that; the """""promise""""" of him being anything other than what we got in 3H... never existed past the rough drafts. Like sorry-not-sorry to this fandom that insists so hard on making Claude way more morally dubious than he ever was in 3H, but Claude is for the most part a soft-hearted sucker. He was never half as bad as either he tried to say he was or the fandom ever treated him. And this is partially proven by even the eastern fandom being outraged at Hopes!Claude - the eastern fandom, who was never subject to Meme Man Claude portrayals of him! Like yes he can be underhanded, but the dude's just... nice, overall.
Two, if Claude was ever really someone who "played both sides" in 3H like this person said was """promised""" to us, then why doesn't he ever directly try to willingly help the Empire at any point in 3H? You know, like he does with helping the Kingdom cross Gloucester territory undisturbed, or how Claude gives Dimitri Failnaught, or how the Alliance lords willingly decided to fold back into the Kingdom, in AM? Even though the Empire, on CF, has Byleth to make them seem legit, and even though the Church would've still had the same dogma that Claudelgard insists they have that made him become an asshole?
Three - and I'm cupping my hands around my mouth for this one - A CHARACTER DOING BAD THINGS DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN THEY'RE ON A CHARACTER ARC. Claudelgard is not on any "arc" - not on one that's any sort of competently written, at least. Him killing his brother and him saying he's willing to get his hands bloody afterwards does not, by ANY means, signify that that now means he's willing to COMPLETELY THROW AWAY ANY CHANCES HE HAS AT HIS AMBITIONS FOR BETTER FOREIGN RELATIONS, or that he's willing to believe someone he KNOWS to be a liar on just her word, or that he suddenly gives a shit about expanding his power (when THAT has NEVER been a concern of his, either in 3H or even in 3Hopes before that moment) to the point that's he's willing to help the Empire in any way in order to leech off their influence. Really wished that the people who like Claudelgard would stop throwing around the term "character arc" as some kind of gotcha against those who see the very clear breaks in Claude's character that needed to happen for him to do pretty much anything he does post Chapter 9.
And would, like, just stop being so rude in general actually?? Like, the amount of times I'm seeing say things like "the people who don't like Claude in hopes just don't like him making mistakes" "they flanderized his character and forgot that he can be bad too" "oh to be a Claude fan who knows how to read (<- ACTUALLY SAID)" is enough to make me wanna scream lmao, like holy shit
This got . . . long. Oops.
I'm not going to pretend I haven't said things similar to "they just don't understand"; I've said it about the Lions, and I've said it about Claude, because while it does feel gross to say (who am I, a little clown on her corner of the internet, to go after someone's interpretation of a game), after a certain point it's very clear that the text does not matter to certain consumers nearly as much as their own conceptions of the character, which is . . . irritating, to say the least. It's less about proving right and wrong, and more coming to the conclusion that being selective regarding canon is a consumer's choice, but after a certain point their interpretation cannot be taken seriously because of how little care they give the facts in the original media. Which is to say: People can enjoy this version of Claude if they want to, but I would heavily encourage a breakdown of what they enjoy, and if that's really something that was present in Houses or if it's just something they wished were there. Because people can holler until they're blue in the face about the character Claude could have been, should have been, would have been better as, but at the end of the day, I don't give a shit about the original draft of this game's writing beyond a cute little "huh, that's interesting," because it, frankly, does not matter. It can certainly provide a frame of reference to how they bastardized his character in Hopes; and if you were going to write an essay on how writers treat characters who don't fit into their franchise's usual tropes, and how that result interacts with their consumer base, sure, you could cite the original plans for Claude as a case study, in that he was going to be some sort of conniving middle ground between Blue Lord and Red Emperor--but from a narrative standpoint you cannot reach into the writers' hard drives and say "See! This was the plan all along!" because I think if someone did that to Princes I think I would fucking implode. Intention is not product; there is a reason drafts exist. If the writers really, honestly cared about giving us a morally loose character, they would have taken care to keep him that way instead of allowing his character to become one who's firm enough in his morals to trust the Blue Lord with the state of affairs--and his family heirloom!--while he fucks off back home. The writers made choices; Claude von Riegan, AKA Khalid somethingsomething (WHEN ARE WE GOING TO GET A FAMILY NAME, INTSYS?), is the result of those choices, and while he doesn't get to shine nearly as much as we all would have liked in Houses, he's sure as fuck consistent: He always has a backup plan, he doesn't take well to people using violence to get their way, he very much cares about those closest to him, and above all he treasures his ambitions and protects it with everything he has, without feeling the need to throw away his life. People are more than within their right to want something different but . . . oh well? Like I'm sorry, I really am, but that is not what we got. Frankly, that's what fanficiton is for.
And......I'm going to ask this in the most respectful manner I can, but:
What fucking character arc? Because Claude remains tragically one-note on Golden Wildfire. He's made to work for the plot, again, instead of having it go the other way around. That means he can never be confident in his plans, because the plot needs him to get to a certain point to make Decisions(TM); that means he has to throw aside common sense and his stance already established in this game to make an Alliance that makes absolutely no sense for his character, but it necessary for the plot for . . . *checks notes* reasons. There were no ups and downs for this Claude, because he was little more than a plot device instead of a full-fledged character.
The reality of it is: Claude in Hopes was poorly written, and he is by no means comparable to Claude in Houses as a means of saying what should have been. He's not even allowed to walk away with the title of smartest dude on the board because half of the decisions he makes are just straight-up idiotic. I can't look at this guy and cheer that this is the guy we were supposed to get because a) the guy we got in Houses was flawed without being insufferable, and b) you can't just undo a whole game's worth of canon because you want to. Hopes, as per the developers, is not meant to override Houses, which means they're meant to co-exist, and as we've established by this point, these two guys are . . . nothing alike. If people want to look at my takes and the takes of others and say we simply never understood Claude, or that we can't appreciate a scheme-y schemer . . . well, sorry, but no.
#i really wanna play VW but like#can I go through a game without the Lions?#do I wanna let dimitri turn into a porcupine?#fe#fe3h (the remix)#s dunks on clyde#s responds#fire emblem warriors: three hopes spoilers#fewth spoilers#fea-and-fehf-headcanons#anyway thank you for another ask that let me word vomit gdlkfgj#i do like rotating claude von fire emblem in my mind all day
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I'm a bit torn if I should buy fe3h because from what I've seen I'm not really a fan of Shez. Would you still consider the game worth buying?
Short answer: no.
Long answer: the gameplay is improved over the original Warriors, there's some good expansion on the Three Houses mechanics and some of the supports are really good. But if dad hadn't paid for it I wouldn't have bought it with my actual goddamn money.
Shez would've been a good protagonist in any other game, hell they could've gotten their own new entry into the franchise, but instead they yanked a perfectly good protagonist out, put her on the back burner and slapped someone in her place that doesn't FIT but is forced in anyway
And I'm not saying that cuz I hate Shez, I don't. But the way they're trying desperately to make them seem like they belong among this cast of pre established characters just isn't working
Like, when you start Claude's route he almost immediately trusts them. A mercenary of no renown with a VERY obvious connection to the ones behind Monica's kidnapping. That's...extremely ooc considering how long it took him to open up to Byleth
Dimitri puts a no name mercenary AT THE HEAD OF HIS GODDAMN ARMY because uuuuuuh "he needs someone leading them who is trustworthy and not a noble" like no offense but are you for real?
I appreciate some of the changes, like that Jeralt doesn't have to die if you do it right, how some of the less popular character traits are downplayed or even outright removed, the inclusion of characters who were mentioned but never seen before or that you're confronted with the Agarthans more openly than in the og game, but they could've literally done any of that with Byleth too
Shez feels...obsolete somehow. Which isn't fair to them cuz they're a good, fun character with quirks and personality. Shez deserved better, Byleth certainly deserved better than to be sidelined like a piece of wood and either killed by a canon foreigner or recruited by said canon foreigner only to not even get support conversations with the 90% of the cast that absolutely adored her in Three Houses
In my expert opinion, play Three Houses, watch the Three Hopes supports on goddamn Youtube
I would've literally bought Three Houses again if they'd been like "hey here's the EXACT SAME GAME except Byleth talks now" and regretted it less
Not to mention some of those truly atrocious design changes. Like, did you watch too much Shonen anime Sylvain?
They did my girl and my kids dirty.
Also, I know this is biased but the whole premise of Three Hopes invites you to be biased because it's set in a preexisting universe that had its story told and its characters reach the end of their journey. We've lived through Fodlan, we witnessed all of these characters' stories before, we have our opinions and headcanons and preferences in routes, Lords and endings
Like, most of the people playing this will be coming from Three Houses so we're all gonna be biased to some degree. Is it really a surprise that I'm kinda mad now?
Will there be people who disagree with me on this? Certainly. Do I care? No.
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Claude, although subtle, DOES have character development. It’s most noticeable in his support with Cyril.
Edelgard, if you ask me, is the one whose character arc needs serious improvement.
I should mention… Verdant Wind was my first route, Azure Moon my second, and Crimson Flower my third.
Verdant Wind-Edelgard made a BAD first impression on me by the end.
Azure Moon-Without spoiling anything… I ended up hating her EVEN MORE after this route.
Crimson Flower prompted SOME thought… and I ultimately decided it did NOT redeem her in my eyes. She comes off less as changing for the better and more as being prevented from changing for the worse. That dialogue you mention about her relaxing her views on the church rings hollow considering this is the only route where the church is more or less completely dismantled, vs reforming on other routes. She overall comes off as remaining static, with her character not changing much, if at all. Not to mention that the story seemingly goes out of its way to ensure her misinformed view of Fodlan history is never challenged. (Which feels more sue-ish to me.)
It’s also kinda funny that you claim Claude’s flaws never screw him over when, in fact, they DO screw him over in any route outside his own! And it’s heavily implied he only really succeeds in his route because he has Byleth on his side. Also… pretty sure his cheerful attitude is a cover for his pain.
Although, I suppose without knowing if you’ve played Azure Moon, or your thoughts on it if you have, I can’t form a full opinion on your thoughts. So I’ll just wait and see.
(BTW, the TRUE Mary Sue in the overall Three Houses canon is Three Hopes!Dimitri)
Okay, before I go anywhere with this, i want to say that I appreciate that you took your time to come and explain yourself to me. Very rarely do I get something like this and instead get preaching to the choir or really bad arguments that don't do shit. So thanks for putting in so much time and effort.
1- I can't deny or affirm this since I didn't GET Cyril in my run. And from what I remember- Claude acts a little more trusting and his facade is more truthful by the end. That doesn't help that Claude is still the guy who gets the most hopeful route when he presents less vulnerability.
2- While I do understand this and I am not going to argue for her on any kind of objective basis here- I do have to say that the Church being dismantled doesn't make her relaxing her views come across as less hollow to me. This kind of stuff would go beyond just the Church since the real problem is the tramua she suffered rather than the Church's issues. Also I can't really think of a way to change it so the Church stays since you need Rhea and Seteth/Flaynn around still. And no fucking way can Edelgard pull off the shit she does and they stick around.
2.5- Going to the history bit- I can understand that. She isn't being challenged here properly and I get that. But my issues with Claude weren't fully detailed in my post so sorry about that.
Another of my big issues is just what was revealed in Verdant Wind: The history of Foldlan, the relics and Rhea's past. This is all stuff that should have been at least shared with the other routes, ESPECIALLY Silver Snow since...you know...that's RHEA'S route and the final boss is NEMESIS, her mother's murderer? Of all the places to have the Agarthans and Nemesis show up, Claude, the guy least affected by them, gets to fight them.
As far as I know, you don't get to get revenge on them for killing Edelgard's family and torturing her, shattering Dimitri's mind and ruining Rhea's life. No, CLAUDE gets the fight.
Again, I could be wrong. My personal experience lacks Azure Moon and Silver Snow. And I know this is emotional and stupid as all hell. But...fucking hell, it REALLY feels like the developers realized Claude was the weakest Lord in terms of character and then shoved the backstory into his route to give you a reason to fight with him.
3- Yeah, the problem there is that from what I've seen, other characters drop their masks but Claude never really does. Just once, can he not have a smile on his face.
And- You'll have to explain how Claude keeping up a facade fucks him over in Crimson Flower. Best I could get there is that without Byleth, Claude's fakeness means no one will rally behind him. Which...doesn't get that much focus compared to Dimitri.
4- I haven't and my memories of Verdant Wind and Crimson Flower are a bit distant since I took about a year to revisit this game. This is kind of why I would like for you to explain the bits about Claude like you did against Edelgard.
Just as well- my thoughts here are just that. My thoughts, not an actual analysis of Three Houses and the routes. In that sense, Claude's route is perfectly functional and works well as a contrast to the more dour routes along with fitting his rouge-like aesthetic and the Golden Deer's more cheerful tone. (That...might just be because of Rapheal though). Claude's development isn't obvious and upfront but it doesn't need it. In fact, Claude's upbeat demeanor is something that can't really be filled by anyone else in the route and is necessary for the tone and unique identity of Verdant Wind. So he works perfectly fine here on an objective level.
You really shouldn't take what I said before as any actual judgement on his character. That was me summing up my year old thoughts on a route I personally didn't like.
Oof, kinda ranted a bit in my earlier ask.
If it makes you feel better, Three Hopes has some… opportunities to vent your frustrations with Claude.
No problem, man. I clearly touched a frayed nerve there and I know all too well the feeling. I should have explained myself better if I didn't want to get a rant after all.
And...if that's a reference to killing Claude, I don't really want that. I want Claude to be vulnerable or for me to snark at him for making jokes about poisoning others. Like dude, I know it's a joke but the fucking diplomats won't care. Probably a good thing I paired him with Ingrid- She can act as the resident Claude translator.
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LA SAGA DE BAGUETTE PART TROIS: JE SUIS UNE PETITE FILLE TRES TRISTE
...Sigh...
...when we last left our little ingenue, he stumbled across a bizarre bracelet that was spit out of a nebulous void called the "Dee-Ell-Cee," and apparently it had three entire Emblems inside of it. These three Emblems are quite infamous in the sense that one of them doesn't really qualify as what FEE defines as an "Emblem."
The definition in this case is a "Hero of Yore."
─.─||
Emblème, engager...whoo...Dieu aide moi...
We get off the wrong foot immediately, because even when the Fodlan games and spinoffs asserted that these three would be great together, they show the exact opposite...sort of. The two guys are distant at worst and get along well enough at best, while the five-head elephant in the room looks down on both of them and ignores them. So in that sense, Edelgard is correct in her statement involving appearances.
Case in point: "Claude, you have the intelligence of a cockroach." Seriously, other than their bogus alliance in Hopes, when has she ever spoken politely to him?
And what's more, while 3H's graphics are pretty bad, the models for these Emblems, even compared to the others, are downright ugly.
Koei: "We would've done another soft reboot for Fodlan to make you like Edelgard more, but IntSys didn't want us in the developer's room this time ლಠ益ಠ)ლ"
The Engaged color palettes for all of the DLC units bar Tiki are much darker compared to the canon Emblems, and no matter which of the House Lords is up front, the Engaged unit will be wearing an Officer's Academy uniform. While this Emblem bracelet is probably better in terms of utility compared to a few of the ring Emblems, I've found the 3H bracelet to be pretty poor in the mid-to late game - for one, the swap gimmick doesn't even pan out since you need to fully upgrade the Bond ranking in order to even access Areadbhar and Failnaught (even if Dimitri or Claude are leading, you're stuck with Aymr as the Emblem's main weapon until you reach said ranks, and this version of Aymr operates like a Great weapon, which are very piddling weapons overall unless an Armored unit is using it), and you can just freely pick one of their Gambits no matter who's leading anyway. Their combined attack is okay, but it's otherwise a basic super attack that doesn't even move you elsewhere (Sigurd, Celica) and it can't be done at a distance (Lyn).
As far as their actual inheritable skills...other than Lineage (it's extremely cheap to inherit - 200 SP - and accelerated EXP growth is always welcome in a game that encourages early promotion/reclassing), they suck.
Man ;_;
In one of several instances of Fodlan's canon being wibbly, Alear-Baguette calls Claude by a title he doesn't obtain until Part II.
Everything about Fodlan is very malleable...except, ironically, with Byleth, who has a very meshed out personality not only like they do in Heroes, but it's consistent!
Le sigh...
With some Skirmishes, grinding, and smithing out of the way, we make our way across the border and into Brodia, the austere, autumnal kingdom that sure does love its strength. The economy boons in the face of strength! Not in a darwinistic kinda way, but more in a Spartan kinda way. They're ambishus and want to expand dong territory...
and yet they're somehow remarkably less shitty about it than Almyra.
...I either am going to like you enough, or not like you at all.
This is Alcryst, the second prince of Brodia. After threatening Al and Baggy with self-defense-mediated murder for broaching the border, Baggy flashes his divine creds, leading to the events of the image above this statement. I am honestly shocked that Alcryst doesn't have a crop to self-flagellate himself with at all times.
Alcryst giving off A-1 off model vibes in this image.
The two ladies are his retainers (Citrinne and Lapis). They're among the game's better characters, but also wind up as victims of its very weird balancing system.
The weird "system" in question is that in Engage, the majority of units you recruit in succession will almost always be objectively better than the ones you began with, with very few exceptions. Even factoring in the low growths across the board, multiple units that come after Chapter 10 or so not only maintain higher bases with good EXP scaling, but the Personal Skills they come with are, again, objectively better than those who came before you.
For example, Clanne and Framme's synchronicity of their personal skills works well in the early game (they get specific buffs if they're adjacent to Alear), but they ultimately pale in comparison to the likes of the free range debuffing abilities that the retainers of the Elusian princesses carry with them. Clanne and Framme also have very odd growths that require reclassing in order to tinker with (Clanne makes for a poor mage despite starting off as one, but also has a poor Strength growth).
As we cross the bridge to meet with the king, we discover that the vaguely "Satanic" winter kingdom of Elusia is mounting an invasion - excuse me, a counter-invasion, as Brodia had attempted to invade Elusia in the past due to their "barbarism" of...worshipping the Fell Dragon.
I have some issues with this little nugget besides the fact that it goes about thirty feet before stopping, but that's for another post.
This little cotton candy clown with all the model clipping is Hortensia, the second princess of Elusia, and the childish and bratty one amongst the nobles in this game. She scores some points for A.) Actually acknowledging how odd Alear's looks are, and 2.) Having a little spat with Alcryst that actually bothers to go steps beyond the tepid "ideals" spiel that 3H forces at us (Dimitri's actual logic on CF 17 notwithstanding).
Yes, the spat is "Brodia invaded us and is hurting civvies" vs. "You're barbarians who worship a giant snake that destroys everything and little more," but it goes a step beyond if we consider that the Jesus figure in this world is an actual, living person walking among them! Alear is the child of God slated to become God, you know!
After a fairly okay map of gunning down fliers galore, we see Hortensia call a retreat to...her retainers, and no one else. I will give 3H credit in that the addition of battalions and larger armies does add meat in terms of battle scaling.
Veyle-Waif is here again, seemingly unable to remember how she got here. How Very Mysterious(tm). In any case, here's her casually dropping a plot twist.
Alear is her brother, in case you haven't played an FE game ever.
And now's the moment we've all been waiting for!
DIAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT I LOVE HIM
If Alear weren't our main character, I'd love for Diamant to have been our Lord! He fits the classic archetype with a few fun twists wedged in. He's handsome, he's an adult, he's perfectly simple and complex, both language voices fit him beautifully, and his design is fantastic (all of the Brodians have decent designs, actually, although Alcryst's random barrette is dumb). His combat utility is decent enough - it has some issues, but further into the game he doesn't drop off like a boulder the way the Firene units (bar Alfred) do. Speaking of Alfred, these two are fun to see together too.
Diamant, being Brodia's responsible Crown Prince, isn't 100% on board with razing Elusia and their not-Satanists, but Elusia's invading and since their king wants the Fell Snek back in action and the Fell Snek eats babies, they're kind of in a corner. What's more, our very own Jesus-Bagel is explicitly on a holy mission to collect all the nations' Emblem Rings because they're the key to stopping Snekky, and that unfortunately includes Elusia's. As Brodia is allied, albeit distantly, with Firene, they opt into helping Baguetty-Spaghetti on his quest.
Despite being responsible for causing a lot of trouble for Elusia, King Morion is actually a good father to his two sons, which is why Alcryst's self-esteem problems can come off as...uh...well. As we will see later on, he is unfortunately not the sharpest tool in the shed, and this lovely little interaction combined with that fact points to all signs that he's a goner.
Brodia seems to only have one Emblem Ring, and it's Roy's. He throws it to his son like a dog playing fetch.
"I bet you don't wanna watch Cocomelon with me later, huh?"
With our objective at hand, Elusia rears its head once again. While the next map's primary objective is to defeat a boss, it's also a defense map, which is a nice change of pace. It is also here that we are introduced to...
...the sensual woobie of the cast (and Crown Princess of Elusia), Ivy. She's a stone cold, magic-casting wyvern flier who's dutiful and driven to server her father, King Hyacinth. It's nothing personnell, kid, she just wants the Emblem Rings.
She also somehow hasn't stabbed herself in the neck with the kind of jewelry she wears, is somehow able to see past the giant fascinator on her head, has no thigh chafing despite her concept art clearly emphasizing that she's going commando underneath that dress, and is able to ride sidesaddle on a wyvern without falling off. The suspension of disbelief set by Claude being able to pull a Parthian shot/stand upright on the saddle/do backflips on his white wyvern has some serious competition.
(I actually do like Ivy as a character...but her design is silly even by this game's standards. Same for Hortensia. I'm also just tired of the specific trope Ivy falls under in FE as a whole).
One of Diamant's retainers, Amber, talking like a toddler for some reason (his other retainer, Jade, will be introduced in the following Chapter). One of the funny things about Amber is that his English voice sounds like...
uh
V*c Mog*ana
But in a slightly lower pitch.
ANYWAY -
-Ow, now that's the edge!
With the castle successfully protected and rings/bracelets in hand, we prepare to march on Elusia. Despite the foreshadowing striking us with the force of someone being flung out of the windshield after a car crash, this moment is surprisingly touching. It's something more FE parents ought to think about, ya know.
Unfortunately, King Morion hears none of it, and is anticipating Alear going all manakete once they succeed in wiping out the Snekkists.
...man. And I'm actually enjoying this guy's vibe. Shame it's gonna end soon ;_;
(This moment is also another underrated one, because Alear has a mini-crisis where he asks himself, "wait, can I turn into a dragon??? Help???")
Next time on ManaketeBall Grand Tour, we march on Elusia, where bad things will definitely, absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, happen. But first, some odds and ends!
Alfred is the first character I got a gold wax seal on. These share hobbies, talents and backgrounds, and comes with a very soft picture of the unit in elegant costume.
This is also the first hint about his health.
ಥ﹏ಥ
Brodia's favored edible fare include meats and starch. The princes both like haggis, which is a dish originating in Scotland whose real life equivalent closely matches the description shown above.
This is more me being salty towards my IRL coworkers in regards to cuisine.
Out of all the inexplicable traits that doesn't seem to really show through, Citrinne having Resting Bitch Face is in the Top 5 for this game.
Damn, Diamant doesn't like horse manure either.
'Till next time.
#fire emblem engage#fe disengage#alear fire emblem#moomoorn plays viddie games#moomoo's dumb opinions#long post#diamant fire emblem
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Remembering my claude characterization headcanons for my personal fandom records.
Not to say i dislike reading fics about claude working past his emotional walls, but i still headcanon claude as already mostly emotionally actualized by the time he came to Fodlan. I still think of him as already mentally developed and stable, like Date Masamune 2009. That's why he didn't need byleth to emotionally hold him together, compared to the other lords.
Not that he was 100% fully psychologically Grown at the beginning of FE3H. But i think he had the Strength to be aware of his remaining Weaknesses and to proactively work on them. That's why he kept reaching out to his Golden Deer until they became true friends. I imagine some part of Claude was still scared of emotional connection, closeness, and trust, but he wasn't mired in his Weaknesses. I've always headcanoned that claude inherited Tiana's defiant personality. And i think Claude is defiant against being ruled or stagnated by his Weaknesses, just as much as he is defiant against all the ugliness and hopelesses that the world tried to break him with. He shows his Strength/Growth in how he handles being confronted with his own Weaknesses. So many of his Supports have him confront a mistake or assumption he has made or a blind spot he didn't know he had, but instead of being frustrated or defensive at the reveal of an emotional/cognitive dissonance, he maturely, immediately tries to improve. Claude is emotionally mature, even when evaluating his own flaws, and he doesn't run away from it.
Maybe that's why he's able to not take himself too seriously.
Another thing to note for my personal fandom records:
I know I've written before about Claude having so many serious themes or something, but please dont mistake me for those Claude fans who are upset when he's taken as anything less than SUPER SERIOUS. I was surprised to run into a corner of Claude Twitter who hates "meme lord" Claude, and playful Claude, and they hated Joe Zieja for having fun playing Claude. I'm not with them. I love playful, funny, memey Claude! I just think that Claude can be multi layered enough to contain serious themes, but also have the Stength to not be bogged down by them.
A video essayist once said that FE3H explored the theme of being mired down and psychologically stuck in one's own past trauma, unable to truly move on from it. ["Edelgard Will Always Lose (Fire Emblem Three Houses)" by BOOFIRE191. See link below.] Edelgard overcompensates her defenses vs her past pain by taking the extreme offensive position, war. Dimitri, we watch fall into the depths of his past trauma, stagnating and decaying him. Then we watch him crawl his way out of his trauma based stagnation. Claude already did all of that in his backstory. He tells byleth how he fought and yelled against his bullies, how he felt alone except for the stars and the hope they gave him for his dream. Claude dreamed not of taking the offensive against his oppressors, to emotionally avenge his past self. His resolve turned instead towards creating a world where even such people came to understand and accept each other. Claude decided his response to trauma would be externally extended compassion and positively constructive proaction. That's why he was already mature, actualized, and Strong by the beginning of FE3H. Claude's story in Fodlan wasn't so much about his internal demons, but the external work he had to do to make his decided dream come true (including the last remaining unexpected ways he still had to Grow).
The more i realize Claude's function in the story was to contrast the other lords, especially Edelgard, the funnier it is to remember all the let's players who thought the Golden Deer had nothing to do with the meat of the story. The reason Claude and Edelgard have so many goals in common was to contrast them. Thru Claude, the story demonstrated the more benign way to accomplish those goals, while Edelgard demonstrated the tragic antagonist method.
#random thoughts#personal fandom records#claudeVRkhalid#fe3hfuukasetsugetsu#characterization#headcanons#fanboying fangirling#elredeaglescrit#superseriousclaude is not all he is#mypovclaudecharacterization
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In the Three Hopes trailer, Dimitri and Claude have their relic weapons, and Edelgard doesn't, it's intriguing
For sure. This probably means the story takes place at a point before Aymr is created, which would suggest the relic was built sometime late in the war.
I think it's a really cool detail they included, because there's a lot of lore/information related to Aymr that is never explicitly told in the game, but rather heavily implied and pointed towards. I'll put my whole explanation about Aymr under the cut.
For those unaware about the whole Aymr thing, give me a hot sec to divulge the info about it. Since the relics are all made of the bones of dead Nabatians, there can only be usable relics for those with crests of the dead dragons. Aymr uses the crest of Seiros, but we all know Seiros is alive as she is Rhea. This leaves Edelgard with no relic to give her an advantage in battle, putting her at a distinct disadvantage against descendants of the 10 heroes.
However, Edelgard also has the crest of flames. When the assault on the tomb happened, it was likely intended to obtain the sword of the creator for Edelgard to use. But since Byleth took it and was able to resonate with it (due to the crest stone in their heart), she was unable to take it for her own use as originally planned.
Without a relic and with her knowing how powerful her enemy is (in Crimson Flower she outright states that even with numbers at their advantage, the best of Adrestia are no match for the best of the Kingdom), she would need anything to push her advantage. Hence why she would work with TWSITD, as not only do they have a lot of puppets in the Empire, but they also are necessary for her to match up to her enemies.
This is why she would make use of demonic beasts and any advantage TWSITD would provide her in any non-Crimson Flower route. Without anyone to ground her and being at a disadvantage--as while the Empire had greater numbers than many, they were up against three different enemies--she needed anything she could get.
This brings about Aymr, as while she can stand her ground against any relic holder thanks to her two crests, she would need something more to stand against 10 relic holders (and Byleth if she were to cross such a path). Aymr is made for a user with the crest of Seiros, however, no crest stones of hers are readily available as Rhea keeps a close guard on them, only giving fractions of her crest to cardinals whose identities are kept secret.
Since Rhea's crest and blood are kept hidden and the only reliable supply of such blood would be from Edelgard, whose crest is weak and blood tainted with a second crest, the Agarthans would have to do some interesting work to create a relic for Edelgard.
If you look closely at official artwork, you might notice that the stone in Aymr has the crest of the beast. The Agarthans no doubt took what bones and crests they had from the dead Nabatians and worked hard to create a weapon specifically for Edelgard. I don't know what they did, but they managed to make Aymr specifically for Edelgard, no doubt thinking in would make her a more powerful puppet (yet a puppet nonetheless, who they would have to put in line at times).
Because this is a relic made specifically for Edelgard, I have no doubts it took the Agarthans a long time to make it, so it could have taken them a decent chunk of the 5 year timeskip.
It also makes this interesting parallel between Edelgard and the other lords. While technically, the Adrestian emperor should probably learn swordmanship to use the sword of Seiros or the like, Edelgard chose to learn using an axe and had a relic made for her. She's all about breaking traditions and making her own path.
Dimitri, on the other hand, would be set to inherit his relic and was likely made to learn the lance out of tradition, for all Kings to be able to wield the relic and know how to use it, as per the way of the Kingdom.
Claude is also kinda interesting. He has a bow relic that he's set to inherit, only learning of it recently in his life. He has to learn the bow, though he's lucky that bowmanship is a staple of his culture. However, he breaks traditions in a way, showing his desire to move slowly towards a future that Edelgard envisions bringing quickly. He breaks tradition by using a bow on a flying mount, making use of the very thing weak to his weapon. It's like a mixing of cultures: mixing his relic from the Alliance with the wyverns of Almyra.
Anyways, that's all on my tangent. I'm sorry if you read this all. I just had to infodump because this game is my brain rot and the combination of me streaming Three Houses with the Three Hopes announcement has made my brain rot flare.
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its been what? two years? and ppl still have the most bad faith cynicism towards Claude and Byleth's S-support/paired ending🤦♀️
like my only actual criticism towards Claude's S-support is the same one i have for Rhea's which is that there's some critical information that should've been presented to Byleth/the Player regardless of S-support. in Rhea's case she expresses regret over revising history and deceiving her followers, as well as trying to revive her mother. imo this part of the conversation should've happened in game no matter what. the writing already puts Rhea in a bad light by making her suspicious and then not dedicating the same amount of time in dispelling all that like they do with Claude(and unlike Claude, she doesn't have other Supports and is benched until the very end of SS/VW/doesn't even show up again in AM). and considering how easy it is to just. miss her Support convos entirely as well as her S-support being completely optional, she isn't really being endeared to the players like she deserved. in Claude's case, there are three conversations happening in one for the player:
Byleth is going to be made the Ruler of Fodlan (note that Byleth already seems to know that she's gonna be Queen)
Claude is leaving Fodlan he must go his people need him-
Claude wants to spend his life with Byleth and asks her to wait for him with a promise to return💍
so. its a lot to process in one conversation...to be fair, the game does drop hints about the former two before the end: with an NPC being like "either you[Byleth] or Claude will become king" during the explore portion about who's gonna Rule. and in Claude's A-support with Lorenz about Claude leaving in the end. buut therein lies the problem which is that those two former points should've been presented in a direct in-game convo before the final boss. instead the most prep a player has about this information are those hints and Jeralt narrating "Afterward, Claude left Fódlan, leaving Byleth to ascend the throne as the first leader of the United Kingdom of Fódlan" after Nemesis which uh. yeah lol
but even so, Claude isn't cruelly chaining Byleth to the throne against their will. I mean call me crazy, but maybe juuust maybe Byleth might have a vested interest in seeing peace restored in Fodlan? bc maybe Byleth might actually give a shit??🤷♀️ as for the S-support convo itself I thought it was perfectly fine (aside from aforementioned criticism) and in-character for Claude as well as a nice way to top-off the ending of VW.
maybe this is just me but I always took Byleth's reaction to Claude's leaving as her being insecure in her capabilities, which is something Byleth has been shown to express before. so her "I can't be a ruler" dialogue meaning "I can't be a ruler without you", which is why Claude tries to reassure her that, yes, she can do it without him. and in spite of fandom acting like Byleth's too stoopid to breathe, Byleth doesn't run Fodlan to the ground. quite the opposite actually lol
also the bad faith takes that Claude only marries Byleth for political gain, or that because the "i love you" is only in the eng version he no love Byleth🙄 as if Claude himself doesn't have the most rosy-eyed view of his parents' love story and might want that for himself (he's either gonna marry for love or not at all I will die on this hill). never mind that nobody accuses Claude of trying to leverage any political gain in his marriages with Hilda or Marianne or Petra... or that not every romantic S-support has an "i love you" line, english or not🙄 Or that because Claude doesn't throw it all away to reside in some liddol cottage in Bumfuck Nowhere with Byleth he must not truly love her, as if A) that isn't a shitty ultimatum (note how the other two lords don't have this standard applied to them🤔) or B) that it wouldn't be a complete betrayal of his character(no offense but I'm looking at you Lysithea/Shamir ending) also it'd be really cool if ppl would stop acting like them being in a temporary LDR is somehow a strike against their relationship like rip to y'all but I'm built different I guess.
BASED ANON BASED ANON BASED ANON
also it'd be really cool if ppl would stop acting like them being in a temporary LDR is somehow a strike against their relationship like rip to y'all but I'm built different I guess.
You did it! You broke shippers down to their bare essentials!
I mean, look, I snark and all, but for real, everyone has their preferences. If you don't like Claudeleth or their S-support, if you like Dimileth or Edeleth better, that's your taste, and as long as you stay in your lane and I stay in mine, we're good. But the criticism leveled at Claudeleth from those two camps is—for all the reasons you stated—overdone and tiresome. Claudeleth obviously isn't unpopular, so it's not like we're. idk oppressed or something dfkjghlskdfjg but it's the least popular lord/avatar ship and often gets overlooked by comparison. So yeah, its shippers are tired of hearing about how much it sucks because the ending isn't a beautiful rosy sparkly fairy tale, especially from supporters of two ships that are, in my opinion, absolutely choked with annoying dating sim player pandering.
plus their S-support still is the best in the game, argue with the wall
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I am so glad you pointed out the imperialist vibes Edelgard has sometimes. As someone who lives in a country who was basically occupied ahem conquered because they said "we have better ideas that will improve your lives" and had our culture absolutely shattered, one of the main reasons why I disagree with Edelgard so much is because of that. She thinks her point of view is superior and the most morally right and I really don't like it whenever she sounds so confused about people defending their homeland. Especially that one line she has with Dimitri in Chapter 17 ffffff—
Like, girl, they have the fucking right to disagree with you please stop sounding so confused as to why they can't see eye to eye with you gahhhhh
I would be more tolerant with the war if she had say, did diplomacy before it? But she tried to had Dimitri and Claude killed in Part I (the prologue). I would also understand her better if the war was a last resort and the other leaders were corrupt and all that. But they're not. Many of the students (who have power because many are noble heirs) outside her house are heavily affected by the nobility and Crests (Sylvain, Ingrid, Mercedes, Lysithea, etc.) or at least understanding of the problems caused by them (Dimitri). It's so frustrating how so much of this can be prevented if she just talked about it.
Also, to those who said she wants the change to be quick, even with war it won't be. The fucking war basically caused continent-wide damage. It's going to be so hard to actually fix this. Hell, there's definitely going to be an eventual rebellion by former Kingdom / Alliance people or sympathisers. It's not going to be as clean cut as the game or some pro-Edelgard people make it to be. Not everyone is going to agree with her, whether she takes over or not. She just destroyed the stability of the continent and while yes, she can rebuild it again, it will still take time and who's to say future leaders won't be corrupt? Also, a hierarchy will always exist, whether she likes it or not. Especially if she plans to set up a meritocracy. Meritocracy is going to usually end up giving power and privilege to those with already pre-existing privilege as they the opportunity to show off their merits or develop those skills. Poor and disabled people are going to have difficulty as they don't have equal opportunity to develop skills and accomplish stuff. I'm generalising, but it just ends up as a hierarchy, again. Not only that, it also has ways to enforce discrimination.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is, she needs to long term plan out her systems. I apologise since I have bad memory but as far as I remember, the game doesn't give us too many details on how she wants to establish her system. All I remember is she does the war > Church / Rhea out of power > Establish her government > ???. Someone please clear this up for me because I'm confused.
...and again really, diplomatic reforms are an option. Yes, they're much more tedious. Yes, they take so much more longer. Yes, sometimes it feels impossible to accomplish. But did she not even consider it as an option?
All in all, I do like Edelgard. But I really wish the game let us go against her while we're with her? I wish it wasn't just general "agree with Edelgard" for CF. I remember someone pointing it out to me before that it would've been really great if she had someone in her house who does the same role Felix does in AM... which is basically disagree and call out the lord's shit. And they pointed out Ferdinand could've probably been that character for CF. And I kinda agree? I really think CF would immensely improve if Edelgard had a challenger / foil to her beliefs similar to how Felix does that for Dimitri.
Anyway, sorry for the very long ask lol. I like Edelgard and I agree with some of her morals and ideals such as the crest system being bad but....she's done so dirty asdfghjkl. I do think she's written well enough to incite these emotions in me, and she makes for a good antagonist. As a protagonist lord however.... yeah.
First off, sorry it took so long to respond, but I wanted to give an equally throughout response.
While I haven’t gotten to chapter 17 yet, I can attest to the notion that Edelgard’s rhetoric is eerily similar to Imperialist propaganda. I do understand this is fiction, and that it’s okay to hand-wave/enjoy things in fiction that you shouldn’t or wouldn’t in real life. Crimson Flower has its charms and parts I enjoy. Edelgard is an interesting character more hampered by things that plague Three Houses as a whole than anything else, but it’s still worth examining how dangerous her rhetoric is. Because, unlike you, my country sits at the opposite end - the Imperialist nation selling that rhetoric to its citizens, and, unfortunately, at the time I bought it - which makes me really sensitive to this.
I’m from the US and I’m specifically speaking about the US’s invasion of the Middle East. I was in middle or high school, just barely a teenager, and naive and ignorant enough to believe what my leaders said. Because guess what? I bought into it out of misplaced and ignorant (and racist) compassion. I was horrified at the idea these people were suffering unfairly just because of where they were born whereas I got all these promised privileges just because of where I was born. I really thought the US would go in there and give them democracy and everything would be great. Looking back, I realize they were lying, that we’ve only made things worse, that it’s horribly racist to assume the US was just inherently better, and I’ve sense then gained access to fast-speed internet, traveled, matured, etc . . . and thankfully this all happened before I had any actual power to do anything like vote. But to this day I’m beyond pissed off they used my own compassion against me to line their own pockets. It was ignorant and racist, but it was all based in concern that others didn’t have the same quality of life I had and a growing realization of my own privilege. And that’s what I hate so much. It didn’t sound evil. It sounded good. It used people’s good will and compassion against them and twisted it into evil for their own causes.
I don’t think Edelgard is after Faerghus and the Alliance because she wants oil. I think she honestly thinks she’s doing good. And, if this were real life, I think that makes her rhetoric even more dangerous than a corrupt politicians’. Because everything else is still the same. She’s being ignorant, nationalist instead of racist in this case, and honestly thinks her moral superiority will improve everyone’s lives even if it means ravaging the entire content in war. She is dangerously naive and ignorant.
Maybe I’d support her more morally if I believed for an instant the general populace welcomed the changes she wants to bring, if the leaders she fought against weren’t open and wanting change themselves, ect . . . But the dialogue indicated her presence inspires people running and screaming in terror, not welcoming her presence (see the chapter where you kill Claude). The Kingdom is still fighting tooth and nail against her. She’s not supported. Her changes aren’t wanted. And she hasn’t bothered to learn a single thing about the cultures she’s determined to squash under her heal nor the leaders heading them.
I also think I’d support her better if we had a clearer idea of what her plans were. But CF has shifted from Edelgard speaking about interesting ideas and classism to evil dragon overlords and chastising Byleth for making her blush. The decision to side with her or Rhea is not choosing between two ideals, but an emotional, spur of the moment thing. Edelgard’s early supports with Byleth attempt to convince the player to side with her not based on political ideals, but on feeling sorry for her.
CF gives you no choice but to agree with everything Edelgard says (as you said, there’s no “Felix” or a “Lorenz”). It wants you to support her war without question, and therefore you don’t get any answers to questions like - if this is really just about Rhea, why are we invading the Alliance? Because they won’t hand power over to you? Why didn’t you just stick to the Empire to enact your changes? In the end, you’re left with what sounds more and more like an entitled Imperialistic princess with absolutely no idea how ignorant she is hell bent on conquering what she thinks belongs to her based on a conspiracy theory.
All that said, I do think Edelgard has interesting ideas and isn’t wholly wrong, just how she goes about it is horribly wrong. And I fully believe the core issue is how CF has dropped the ball big time writing wise, because diving deeper into her ideas and not her crush on you would go a long way. So would shifting the narrative away from evil boogey dragon lady must die and everyone else is wrong and I am superior and right and more towards a clashing of ideals, this route could’ve been a lot more and seemed a lot less ignorant, naive, entitled, and Imperialistic.
#fire emblem#Fire Emblem Three Houses#fire emblem 3 houses#fe16#fe3h#edelgard discourse#just incase any of her fans don't want to see this#and have that tag blocked#because this doesn't paint a pretty picture of her
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I definitely agree that the sway of Byleth as a lot of weight for SS! But I don't think it's the only important factor? Because to me if it was the case, Claude and Dimitri would have their own SS: the fact that it's specific to Edelgard do seems means something about the Eagles loyalty toward her.
Edelgard don't feel betrayed in Silver Snow nor did she trusted the other Eagles? Can you give specific dialog? To me Silver Snow, at least regarding Byleth and other student is kinda just what she expected to happen?
I do think the Hubert point has to be nuanced: Hubert is only one person in Edelgard huge lack of positive relationship, and more widely Edelgard truly awful situation. Edelgard is constantly watched by her abuser, she has to constantly worry that people she met could very much be TWSITD agent, ... Yes, she has someone to rely on but comparatively she has countless ennemies on her track ( unlike Claude who has mostly potential enemy, or indirect ennemies that have in no way the same weight as TWSITD or Aegir for example ). So yeah, while Claude and Edelgard trust issue are different in certain ways, I don't think Claude trust issue can be a point as to why found family is a fundamental trope of VW and not of CF?
For the inherent respect as a leader I'm sorry to have missed what you meant! But while you're right that Claude as the thoughest situation, the other lord don't take the respect as granted? The role of Emperor is now a puppet leader and the Prime Minister is supposed to hold the true power, Edelgard certainly does have to work for the respect and the amount of power she has in CF: she has to rely on TWSITD and make alliance with Caspar and Linhardt father for example. Even Dimitri who clearly has the best position of the three when it comes to natural respect has the whole Rufus affair!
For Ferdinand a the reason behind him being rival who don't litteraly seek to take her power, it's because he already has power over her so I don't think it's necessarily a strong point? Because of the insurrection, she's the puppet leader, he's the one with the actual power. And Edelgard noble connection are small and actually very unimpactful. Especially compared to Dimitri who has his actual group of childhood friend and adoptive fathers
How is Edelgard not inherently untrusting compared to Claude and Hubert? I mean, they made a choice to give one lord the line about being so untrusful they can't even trust themselves, they made SB about the hardship of trusting unlike GW where Claude surprisingly trust Shez to some extent quickly? I genuinely don't see how she has less trust issue, or at least less deep, and to me it kinda wouldn't make sense with her backstory ( especially on the Hubert comparison )?
I'm sorry for all the misunderstanding too, I hope I'm not too rude- And really if my ask bother you or take too much time to respond I really won't mind if you don't respond ^^" Thanks you for taking your time in any case
First of all anon, let's clear something up! I ADORE your asks! You're not rude at all, I really, genuinely enjoy disagreeing with you, if that makes sense? You're clearly super passionate about Three Houses and talking about this game with someone who is super passionate is really fun for me! And don't worry about how long it takes me to respond to you lol--which is very ironic considering this response took nearly twenty days when I normally reply within eight hours (finals hit hard D:) --because I love doing it! You're genuinely a bright spot in my day!
Now, to the rest of your ask!
So for me, the reason why Claude and Dimitri don't have a "Silver Snow", as you put it, is because thematically they don't really "need" one. The type of conflict dealt with by Claude and Dimitri both personally and politically doesn't require an additional route to explore, and also, Silver Snow is much more the Church route then it is the oppositional-Edelgard route. I think Silver Snow branches from Edelgard's route because that's the most interesting place to put it. As personally as Dimitri's route gets with Edelgard, he isn't her true opposition; Rhea is.
And thus for me, the Silver Snow route says much more about Rhea, Edelgard, Seteth, and Byleth, then it does the Eagles. I definitely think it says something about the Eagles-- that they don't appreciate Edelgard's methodology and could be convinced to opposed her (and have mixed feelings about them) puts them in a very similar boat to Claude, who is most frequently compared with Edelgard. However, when removed from the context of SS/CF (and thus, recruitment ignored, away from Byleth's influence), all of them do show up at Edelgard's side, and are willing to die for her. I think, similarly to the other routes, their relationships are different and more strained, but ultimately without the influence of Byleth they are loyal to Edelgard (and the Empire) in a way that can't be ignored.
"Edelgard don't feel betrayed in Silver Snow nor did she trusted the other Eagles? Can you give specific dialog? To me Silver Snow, at least regarding Byleth and other student is kinda just what she expected to happen?"
No, you're absolutely correct here, I definitely misspoke. If I were to try and correct what I said...I don't think Edelgard felt betrayed by the other Eagles, but perhaps, disappointed? It's a conclusion I come to from seeing her in CF more than anything else, frankly, because (and I'll elaborate on this a few paragraphs down), I see Edelgard as a very desperate person. She is desperate to trust even as she views everyone with suspicion, two traits that seem more diametrically opposed then they really are.
Go back into trust issues (and the leadership points), I think there is no "better" or "worse" when comparing Edelgard and Claude's trust issues, just "different." Edelgard's trust issues cause her to put on a front of suspicion, but it's not a strong one. This is the result of two things: her trauma, and Hubert. Edelgard has a peer she can trust anything and everything with (and this is a good thing for her), and that includes vetting people. Even with the Professor, Edelgard grows fond of her quickly, and begins to trust her (implied by game mechanics to really, really start at C+ but also scene in other routes the fondness really does carry), but Hubert holds off on Byleth until she makes that critical choice to go against the church. This to me symbolizes a sort of "safety" net that Edelgard has with Hubert? Further on her relationship with Byleth, Edelgard's trauma does result in her putting on a front of suspicion (which makes it no less apart of her, but rather something she deliberately does to protect herself), but I think Edelgard is just desperate for someone to reach out to her.
I haven't talked about this before, but I think one of the things that highlights the differences between Edelgard and Claude and also their trust level, is the concept of "adults." This affects Dimitri as well, but as a "rule" in three houses if something majorly affects two house leaders it affects the third in less dramatic/major ways. That is to say, that while Edelgard has never had an adult/authority figure she could rely on, Claude has. And while Claude has never had the ability to rely on a peer, she has. Edelgard removes the old guard almost completely when she rises to power, only compromising, as you said, with Lindhardt and Caspar's parents. She replaces everyone she can't rely one with people she can rely on, because she's learned the hard way through what happened to her and her family. Claude, on the other hand, had his parents. They raised him to be self sufficient and to survive in a world that hated him. Later, Claude had his grandfather, and now has Judith and Nader (who trained him in childhood). He had no peers and no friends until he arrives at the Academy. As a result, Claude simply...lives with the discomfort. He deals with the reverse of what Edelgard went through; instead of living with people who have harmed you, he experienced harm from other people and now is forced to be around people who think the same way and thus could harm him in the future. Whereas Edelgard clears out the rot and only compromises where she has to, Claude is a being of compromise. It's not just that he distrusts others, it's that others fundamentally distrust him.
Edelgard's place as the next Emperor is never in doubt. It just isn't. What really shows this off to me, is the silver snow cutscene in which the flame emperor is blatantly backtalking to the Agarthans! Talking about how she doesn't approve of what they've doing and how they're going to pay--to me it was really effective at showing off how well they were at manipulating her because there is a reason Edelgard goes after the Church first and not the people responsible for her own personal tragedy. It's never in doubt in the Crimson Flower route that Edelgard will be Emperor. She never doubts it. To better compare her and Dimitri to Claude--he's basically a bastard to the Alliance. Sure, Edelgard is at risk of being undermined and turned into a puppet leader, but the fact that she will be that leader is objectively not up for debate. Edelgard is not afraid of the people in the Empire (non-Agarthan) who caused the coup, and she's relatively easily able to steamroll over them. Edelgard has stability in her place in the world--her place has been custom made, after all, as the only survivor of her siblings. In a way, it's also what makes her such a tragic figure--she has a lot less agency in her route then it feels because she's trying to make the best out of a bad situation.
Claude, on the other hand, is implied to be in a very precarious position. He can't pull off the stuff Edelgard does because Edelgard is an absolute monarch in a similar way to Dimitri. She is the Emperor and Dimitri is the King. Claude is the head of the von Reigan house, but the constant pressure and presence of Lorenz combined with Holtz's looming (if pleasant) figure in the background shows to the player that Claude is objectively replaceable. It's why his ultimate strategy during the time skip is to stall, to take advantage of the lack of unification in the Alliance (the lack of unification under him), in order to keep the Empire's eyes off of his people for the longest period possible.
So I think their trust issues are fundamentally different despite how similar Claude and Edelgard are!
Before I go to that, though, I'd like to address Ferdinand. That man has absolutely no power over Edelgard lol. Their support chain honestly makes me feel a little bad for him? The other two rivals--Lorenz and Felix--get deeper, more meaningful resolutions with their Lords but to me, personally, it feels like Ferdinand just accepts that Edelgard is better than him and becomes humble in a way that feels almost self-depreciating (esp. in their line progression if you have them pull weeds together the whole run, like me and my friend lol). Ferdinand has no idea about the coup, and he's a rather oblivious character--he believes it's his job to keep Edelgard in check, and he is only allowed to be Prime Minister because when she ousted his father, she chose to keep him there. Edelgard has so much power over Ferdinand it's crazy--both personal and political--and I don't necessarily think they have a "bad" relationship or anything I just think that Ferdinand has self esteem issues, lol, and weighs his own worth against hers which she isn't responsible for. I think you're underestimating Edelgard here--while Dimitri does have a lot of personal and political connections, so does she! There's a reason she's able to almost instantly obliterate the old guard, and that's because she has replacements like Ladislava and Randolph waiting in the wings. She's also able to keep on nobles like Lindhardt and Caspar's father's. Edelgard is a very powerful character, I think it just feels otherwise sometimes because she's so deeply affected by what happened to her as a child (as she should be) and unlike Dimitri it doesn't make her large and imposing if that makes sense.
Edelgard is jaded in a way Claude is not. I did not mean to make it seem like she was trusting because she absolutely tries not to be. Her trust issues are bone deep, and comparing her and Claude as "more" or "less" was not something I intended to do, it's just that they manifest differently. What they each want from people they could potentially trust is different: Edelgard is desperate to have someone reach out their hand to her, and Claude is desperate for someone not to slap his away when he does. Edelgard is drowning in the same way Dimitri is, emotionally. The Hubert thing was less of a comparison and more of an example of why Edelgard wants to trust someone so bad and appears to "slip" more than Claude does with her mask even though hers is a lot more obvious partially because she has Hubert. She does not have to do all her vetting herself, and I think that's very good for her.
I think the reason for me, why found family seems to be a much bigger theme in Verdant Wind then Crimson Flower, is again, partially because of the power structure less inherent in the Golden Deer house. Lorenz is visibly worn down over time through conversation with Leonie (our queen!) about commoners, and despite everything about Claude being inherently political, the Golden Deer manage to be peers in a way no one else is, because let's be real, Claude is an equal to the other nobles the way Edelgard and Dimitri can't be. It doesn't make him closer to the others--Hubert calls Edelgard only ever by respectful titles and I think if they were any closer they'd merge into a single soul lmao--but it puts him on a more level playing field. Mr. Leader Man is treated with a lot more humor than grandiosity, and characters like Leonie and Raphael really do result in the Golden Deer all feeling like they're equals even if you're conscious that they aren't. This, for me, makes it feel a lot more explicit when you get your found family forming, because in a big big way, it's forming completely from scratch. There's almost no real positive relationship between any of the Deer when the game starts! And I'm including Raph and Ignatz in it because of Ignatz's massive guilt! It makes that development very tangible, because it almost doesn't feel like a natural progression. For me, the theme is so prominent because it's about the formation of found family, although I think you could definitely argue that other routes have other aspects of found family more prominent.
I'm so sorry this took me so long anon!! Know I've been slowly working on this and thinking of you, lol!
#twila talks#twila answers#fire emblem three houses#fe3h#claude von riegan#edelgard von hresvelg#fe3h meta#never fear anon i adore you and your asks!!!
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A Time!travel au with Claude this time. The BE route goes VERY wrong, Eldegard becomes too violent and doesn't listen Byleth anymore. When she takes the Alliance Capitale, she kills all the golden deer one by one in front of Claude, before killing him. And he wakes up just in his younger body, just after his meeting with Byleth. This time, the genius tacticien will do anything for ruin Edelgard's plan and protect his friends, Byleth and Dimitri (Also this two need to be together) A BL/GD fusion?
Claude going back in time, armed with knowledge of the future, would be such a deadly weapon that it would take hours for me to detail just how much things would change.
Claude, for all that he’s a walking meme, is still a brilliant tactician and has a talent for manipulation. In game he was able to find out things about the other lords down to Dimitri’s gifting Edelgard a dagger in their backstory, and Edelgard’s fear of mice. He did that on his own, before he even knew there was a war coming.
If he was sent back in time, armed with what was going to happen, he would most certainly use that knowledge to his advantage and go out of his way to ensure that the future he lived will never happen. Ever.
Not only that, but he would be armed with even more knowledge of the other two lords than he had before, from Edelgard’s plans and connections, to Dimitri’s hidden mental state and nightmares.
And he’s going to start with his original plan of befriending Byleth and cultivating a deep, long lasting, bond so they’re more inclined to join his house over the Black Eagles. After all, without Byleth, Edelgard wouldn’t have won that war, he’s convinced.
He has to swallow his own resentment to do this, because Byleth was a key player in losing all of his friends, but he’s good at smiling through bullshit.
So he goes out of his way to start appealing to Byleth, giving them helpful information about Garreg Mach, setting up tents with them, stealing a seat next to them during meals, just about anything he can think of to make himself seem like a better option than Edelgard. Dimitri is often there too, thinking that it’s a wonderful idea to make sure the person who saved them from the bandits is familiar with them (he did that last time too, always helping out and being informative, they all were to some extent, but Claude’s really going above and beyond here and now so is Dimitri). Claude isn’t complaining, though, because getting close to Dimitri isn’t something that’s going to hurt him at all. Maybe he can even help stop the madness that grew in him over the war. Or, at least, get him to a point where he’ll trust and listen to Claude so that they have a solid alliance against the Empire should the war somehow break out.
Either way, it ends up with the three of them accidentally bonding very deeply over the course of the trip.
It’s...jarring.
Claude isn’t used to seeing Byleth so emotionally blank, and he’d almost forgotten how genuinely nice Dimitri was. It almost even makes his heart hurt when Dimitri tries to include Edelgard in their bonding, only to be shot down (and, ouch, the guy got shot down bonding time by his own “sister”). It’s...weird...to see them both like this when they were so different during the war. Dimitri is smiling, and Byleth isn’t, and it’s just...just...
Becoming genuinely fond of them was an accident.
He didn’t mean for Dimitri to suddenly become a good friend, he just wanted to earn the guy’s trust, be his confidant. He didn’t expect Dimitri to be so genuine, and agreeable. He starts opening up about his goals for his kingdom, and how he wants to make Faerghus proud of having Duscan blood, and it hits so close to home that Claude’s chest itches with the sympathy building in his heart. He’s surprised when, not long into their trip back to Garreg Mach, he’s already feeling surges of protectiveness for the blonde.
Damn it all, Dimitri, why are you so fucking likable? Claude shouldn’t be working on plans to poison Edelgard this early, but now he’s thinking of a new plan every time Dimitri tries to even talk to the woman.
Byleth is...harder. Claude never really got the feeling that they meant for the war to go the way it did, but it’s hard not to be a little resentful when all his friends died because of the side they picked. Still, this Byleth isn’t that Byleth, and he tries to remember that.
This Byleth is barely anyone, actually.
Maybe he can work with that.
He has it all planned out in his head, he’s so sure that he’s stolen Byleth away from the Black Eagle house, and he’s pretty firmly cemented a friendship with Dimitri, all he has to do is go from there and make backup plans for if things go wrong. But, overall, he thinks he’s go this.
So, of course, his plan immediately crashes and burns first day because of one thing he overlooked.
Byleth chooses the Blue Lion house.
“Well, shit.” Claude breaths with a smile, “Didn’t see that coming.”
#fe3h#fe16#Dimileth#Claude's Second Chance AU#claude von reigen#dimitri alexandre blaiddyd#byleth eisner#edelgard von fresberg#Black Eagles#Golden Deer#Blue Lions#Blue Lion Route#asks
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