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dragongutsixofficial · 2 years

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On the topic of Rhea, Byleth, Crimson Flower and abuse

I see a lot of people saying Crimson Flower is a bad route for Byleth, and I'm always a little confused about it, so I thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter. This post isn't at all to invalidate their opinions or how they view the game- this is just offering my perspective on things. Please forgive any possible mistakes, as English isn't my first language. Also, I will be criticizing Rhea's treatment of Byleth, so I'll tag this appropriately of course, but I'm still warning any of her fans beforehand in case you just wanna skip. ^^

For a little bit of context, when i first played the game, Rhea creeped me out THE MOMENT she looked at Byleth from the balcony in the cutscene when they arrive at Garreg Mach monastery. So, I was already wary of her-I dunno, I just had a feeling she wasn't as honest as she was pretending to be.

And I mean, this isn't completely wrong. She desperately wants to be able to relax and be truthful, sure, but she also has a great deal of responsibility in putting in place and maintaining a really unfair theocracy based entirely on lies, because she wants to protect her family, the last of her kind. While her behavior is, of course, understandable given the horrible trauma she went through, it still doesn't sit right with me, but that's not really my point here. The thing is, she has problems with not being in control at all times because of her story. Her despair even pushes her to try and bring back her dead mother by crafting her a vessel- something she fails at several times, including Sitri.

And, then, there's Byleth. Byleth, who disappears for twenty long years, along with all her hopes, and when they reappear Rhea immediately sees the possibility for her to achieve her goal is not totally lost. She was desperate and now that she's found them, she wants to keep them.

That's why she places so much trust in Byleth from the start, but also why she grows cold every time they step out of line- like when they refuse to give her Miklan's spear. She allows them to live their life, but only so long as they do not disappoint her in any way or deviate from her ideas- because for the longest time, she struggles to see them as their own person and puts unreasonable expectations on them.

And that, sadly, is when that becomes psychological abuse on her part. This is really obvious to me when Byleth's hair and eyes turn green after fusing with Sothis, and she sings to them and puts their head in their lap while they're asleep- it just makes me want to run far away in the opposite direction every time, and her giving them the prophet outfit after that makes me so sorry for Byleth because what she's essentially doing here (albeit maybe unvoluntarily) is chipping away at their developing self and bodily autonomy by turning them into literally what she physically wants to see-and that isn't them. She wants them to become what she wants of them.

And then, in the Sacred Mausoleum, Byleth chooses Edelgard. All hell breaks loose because Rhea's hopes are shattered- and she also realizes her affection for Byleth is (partly) unrequited which, to me at least, makes sense- I don't really see how they could care as much for her as they do for their students when they spent every day with them for a year, and their actions seem to be made more out of love for their close ones than anything else. Byleth breaks out of the mold and confronts her directly. They make the clear cut decision to deviate from the path she had laid out for them. From that moment on, Rhea considers that all forms of violence against them is allowed (which, fair, they just declared war on her lol) including taking their heart out by force, which is physical abuse obviously (then again, violence is to be expected in a war but you get the idea). She now hates what she's created and sees it as her duty to destroy it.

Now. Byleth choosing to walk down Edelgard's path does not equate cutting themselves from their divine part, and I think that is a very important point. I see a lot of people make that criticism, especially since Byleth loses Sothis' powers at the end of CF. But to me, it's a totally different phenomena that occurs.

In every route, post-timeskip Byleth embraces their divine side. They use the Creator's sword and they go back in time as they wish to protect and further their and their lords' vision for the future of Fodlan. Heck, their main class is literally "Prophet". But something strange and, I think, beautiful happens in Crimson Flower that always made me feel disappointed in the other routes' plots: Byleth has a chance to stand up to their abuser and cut ties with them explicitely and directly. To fight back against them with all they've got.

Now, don't get me wrong. Rhea apologizing for her wrongdoings and bad treatment of Byleth is good, sure, but it just… doesn't seem like enough to me. Sure, that's a nice thought… but it's not like anything can be done about it now: they're stuck with body modifications and a position as an Archbishop reforming the system she helped put in place that they never really asked for in the first place. But what makes it ok is that they embrace those fully and voluntarily, and that's beautiful on its own- however, that resolution leaves me a bit disappointed and honestly feeling like they let Rhea walk all over them.

The thing is, when you get out of an abusive and toxic relationship, you are left changed from the experience. You lose a lot of things, but you also get some things. It's like you're left with a random object your abuser gave to you once. You can either keep it and give it a new story of its own, or discard it if keeping it just doesn't feel right. But in the end, it is your responsibility, your thing, and you're not a bad person for not using it. The metaphor is broken, I know, but I hope you get my idea. You're not a bad person for moving on for that thing- You don't resent the thing, you can thank it and appreciate it for what it brought you while you used it, you don't hate it, hell you might have even learnt from it.

In the other routes, Byleth chooses to keep everything and use it equally. In Crimson Flower, Byleth "regaining their humanity" doesn't in any way, shape or form mean they reject all that Sothis brought to them or their enlightenement. It's just them choosing that they'd rather not use that from now on, or not engage with it to the same degree. They might go back to it later, might help rebuild the church, I don't know-just not in the same way. On new terms that make them more at ease with who they became following that route.

They're still the same loving and caring person who would do anything for their students. They still go to the ends of the Earth to give someone a random thing they lost. They still spend hundreds of coins on their loved ones' favorite teas. But… they do not have to forgive Rhea. They do not have to accept everything that happened to them because of her actions, even if some of it was good. They've made their peace with it and they've let it go of their own volition.

They do not become a lesser version of themselves because they chose to deal with the abuse they went through in a different way than in the other routes.

And I think a lot of people underestimate how powerful CF!Byleth's narrative can be.

#fe3h #byleth eisner #byleth discourse #lady rhea #seiros #rhea discourse #rhea critical #tw abuse #tw mentions of abuse #tw physical abuse #tw psychological abuse #crimson flower #this is no hate towards rhea's character you love who you want #byleth #fe16 #archbishop rhea #fe3h spoilers #edelgard von hresvelg

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burr-ell · 1 year

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"the tendency of this fandom to only engage with what THEY want these characters to be#as opposed to what their creators are trying to do and the stories they want to tell" slap this on a bumper sticker, you just summed all cr discourse (about PCs at least) in 2 sentences

It truly is maddening (and it's not by any means exclusive to the CR fandom). The reason why the discourse always goes the way it does is that at the end of the day, the loud fanwanky people only see what they would do, if they were self-inserted into the story, as a valid choice; and they are, more broadly, fundamentally disinterested in what others think or feel. There are several examples of this, and the variety of spaces within the fandom that produce these ideas is an indicator that this isn't endemic to one specific group of people.

-Keyleth is an important character whose feelings and choices are validated by the other PCs and cast even if they still disagree with them, in spite of how she and her preachiness get in the way of the Murderhobo Jubilee? It's not because the cast are all friends and they genuinely believe Keyleth is valid and are interested in how these discussions and choices can guide the story. It's because Marisha is the DM's girlfriend, and also here's my totally unbiased theory that my pet favorite players Sam and Travis secretly hate Marisha and Keyleth.

-Vax's presence is still felt and nodded to in the post-canon VM oneshots? It's not because he was an important character who mattered. It's because Liam wants to make everyone talk about his tragedy because he has Main Character Syndrome. Scanlan Wishes for Vax to appear at the wedding? It's not because he cares about Vex or because Sam and Liam wanted a sweet tribute to Vex and Vax's relationship and by extension Liam and Laura's friendship. It's because Liam thinks Vex's life should always revolve around Vax, and Sam wants to enable him and jerk himself off as the one who facilitated it.

-Beauyasha and Fjorester become canon? It's not because the players wanted it and it happened naturally. It's because there was a secret behind-the-scenes push to "force" those ships to become canon instead, and like, Dani Carr is some sort of shipping puppetmaster who made the players do it, and "they" (whomever "they" is) decided to sink Beaujester or Widojest because it was "obviously" going to become canon before the pandemic hiatus gave them time to "make the corporate-approved ships happen".

-Beau and Caleb try to reform the Empire and dismantle the Cerberus Assembly from within? It's not because it makes sense for their stories or that people who would take this position regarding a corrupt government might have a valid perspective that differs from your own. It's because the people at Critical Role Productions LLC are all spineless neoliberal cowards who won't commit to real activism. The best activism, after all, is violent, and violent revolutions have always resulted in stable aftermaths, and the real world has never demonstrated that this mindset is foolish.

-Relatedly: Caleb doesn't kill Trent personally? It's not because the most poetic justice would be to deny Trent the thing he wants most from Caleb. It's because "Limo Brain" is too obsessed with tragedy to have the stones to do "what needs to be done".

-Asmodeus, DnD Satan, turns out to also be CR Satan? It's not because it fits with the cosmology and the lore; it's because Matt Mercer is too attached to the "establishment", and the Prime Deities should have actually turned out to be the bad guys because of my personal baggage about Western religion and Christianity they're a little mean to my blorbo sometimes.

There's a pattern here: fans had expectations that they'd built up for themselves after projecting and building up fanon and deciding what players meant before they explained themselves fully, and when the players strayed from that, they were derided for all manner of reasons. I think we're seeing that same pattern play out in C3 as the story progresses in a way that fans dislike, and in fact we have seen fanwank spread whenever someone does anything that interferes with personally catering to a) the favored ship and/or b) the favored philosophy. (Orym, Ashton, FCG, Percy, Pelor...all valid when they affirm the Fandom Opinions and all disdained when they don't.)

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a place for comfort stories that deliver a personal catharsis. And I'm not going to dismissively say "well if you want it so bad make your own" because, as an artist, I am very familiar with the fact that creating is hard and draining and sometimes you just need to consume instead. But when you become so wrapped up in yourself and your feelings to the point where your perspective is the only valid one, someone else's feels like a betrayal when it isn't. It's always "They aren't doing what we wanted and here's why they're terrible people because of it" and never "Hmm, why is this what the cast wants? Let's examine that."

This isn't a new phenomenon, but I think it ultimately stems from not assuming that other people can differ from you in major ways in good faith. There are a lot of reasons for that (some more understandable than others), but I think you rob yourself of the potential to enjoy something new when all you do is demand what you already want. No matter what you're doing or where you are in life, you tend to become a better and wiser person when you open your mind to what other people have to say, no matter how mundane the subject matter. Sometimes the stories people have to tell are challenging—and the only healthy way to deal with that is to engage with them on their own terms.

#critical role #cr discourse #asks #long post #for the record i think VLD fandom became such a shitshow partially for this reason #but also. and admittedly i'm biased. VLD was basically a show for no one #this by the way is part of why a faction of fe3h fandom capes so hard for crimson flower (which is basically a glorified bonus route)#and absolutely abhors the idea of byleth being religious and enjoying her job as a teacher #and why some cr fans are so vehemently opposed to the prime deities being good and characters being connected to them #religious trauma that leads a character to reject religion and that being framed as a valid choice is okay to want to see #but it is also just as valid for a character to find religion to be a healing and positive experience #seriously 'gods bad' stories are not that difficult to come by. they're just not doing that in THIS story and you're mad about it #instead of doing the work of finding a story that WILL do that meaningfully

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raxistaicho · 9 months

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Like a teacher would

There are those who might wonder, "why doesn't Byleth criticize Edelgard for her indirect involvement in the destruction of Remire and the death of Jeralt," and that's a fair question. Let's ask Byleth!

Wow, it's almost like Byleth is consistently portrayed as a patient, understanding, and forgiving person! Like a teacher!

#fire emblem three houses #edelgard discourse #edelgard von hresvelg #edelgard positive #fire emblem engage #byleth eisner #emblem byleth #hortensia

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erindromeda · 2 months

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I've been doing a Black Eagles run

#Fire Emblem #Fire Emblem fanart #fire emblem three houses #fire emblem three houses fanart #Edelgard #edelgard von hresvelg #female byleth #edelgard discourse #tag added upon ask request #but ultimately this is in good fun #I actually really like edelgard!

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bowbowis · 6 months

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In a World for Humanity... There's No Need for Gods...

People trying to make out that CF is the bad ending because Byleth loses their godhood really need to learn about context. As Edelgard says in the very same scene, "when humanity stands strong, and people reach out for each other, there's no need for gods." Byleth's loss of divinity isn't a tragedy because because their godhood is, and always has been, redundant.

Byleth the god didn't show Edelgard she could be loved, or help Dimitri find redemption, or teach Claude to trust others; Byleth the person did. Only one person in the game reduces Byleth to their status a vessel for Sothis's power, and that's Rhea, something even she admits she was wrong for doing in her S-Support. Edelgard doesn't weep in the end of CF because she's mourning that Byleth lost the Godess's power, she weeps because she's overjoyed that the person she loves, the part of Byleth that truly matters, survived.

#fire emblem three houses #byleth eisner #edelgard von hresvelg #fe3h rhea #edelgard discourse #edelgard positive #crimson flower #fe3h

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mayhem-ensues · 1 year

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I don't want to like, reblog anyone and directly put them on blast or anything, but like, the fact that people are suggesting that IS hates Male Avatars and will always prefer Female Avatars is so comical to me cause it's like literally the exact opposite.

Seriously go back and watch the trailers for Fates, not a single sign of F!Corrin, it's M!Corrin all the way through. And it's the exact same story with the trailers for Three Houses. In the major game trailers for 3H the only sign of F!Byleth is when they showed off the Avatar select screen in a Nintendo Direct and then used M!Byleth for the rest of the trailer anyway.

Also, worth noting stuff like M!Byleth being used for all of the tutorial screens in 3H, and the fact that all of the avatars are presented as Male by default in Smash Bros.

When it comes to pre-release stuff, IS always favor the M!Avatars, often, as we've seen in the trailers above, to the exclusion of the F!Avatars. The fact that F!Corrin and F!Byleth have ended up getting more attention from IS then their male counterparts in recent years is not because of favoritism from IS, it's because they ended up being the more popular version of the character and so IS pivoted from their initial decision to focus on the male versions of those characters.

Like, no hate to anyone who prefers the Male versions of these characters or is upset by M!Alear not making it into the first Engage banner, but to suggest that IS hates M!Avatars and prefers the women is just ludicrous when historically speaking, they've always initially chosen to highlight the men, and only reluctantly switched focus when the female version ends up being more popular.

Seriously, F!Alear getting into Heroes without an accompanying M!Alear is an unprecedented situation that flies in the face of how IS usually roll, not evidence of an ongoing trend.

Also, just a quick addendum because this topic annoys the hell out of me so I'm feeling a little petty. I do think it's worth noting two things when it comes to Byleth in particular.

When F!Byleth was finally treated as the "default" option in marketing, it was for Three Hopes, a game where Byleth is a relatively minor character and the real main character/new Avatar was advertised using, you guessed it, the male version of the character.

Despite being the more popular version of the character, F!Byleth still got left out of Engage in favor of her male counterpart. Likely because the game has been in development since before IS has a solid grasp on the relative popularity of 3H characters and as such they defaulted to using the man, like they always do.

#fire emblem #fire emblem heroes #byleth eisner #corrin #alear #fire emblem discourse

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butwhatifidothis · 11 months

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It's funny how people once pointed out how Edelgard would say to Byleth that she didn't think that they belonged on the path that put them on her side - that Byleth wasn't meant to be here - to show off why CF was like. Not good. Because even the lord of the route is trying to tell the player that uhhh Byleth doesn't belong here, they're supposed to be on the other routes. Which checks with how the devs said that SS is the route the world-building is based on, and how within the game itself CF directly goes against SS' world-building.

It's like. It's like a pretty clear wink wink nudge nudge that the player Dun Goofed and was on the Bad Route with the Red Emperor who mows down any in her way. And which is further backed up by all the the bad implications in CF endings... and its mural... and throughout the story... and the explore dialogues... and Byleth's (and other characters') visible character regression...

But Edelstans have looked at that clear-as-day red flag through some damn fine rose-tinted glasses, and have completely turned that intent around. Nooo, we've got it all wrong, that wasn't any sort of nudge to the player that they're on the wrong path - that's Byleth defying their fate! That's them challenging what was meant for them to go down, and them forging their own path forward through the choices they made!

...Ignore how, if CF is an available route to go down, that would intrinsically make SS a choice as well. Because it is no longer the default in that scenario; one has to make the active choice to still side with the Church over Edelgard. Meaning, like. There is no fate to defy here.

...And ignore how this makes it sound as though this is the only choice Byleth makes about something in the game at that point. There's, well, AM and VW to consider, but even being a saint and ignoring the biggest flaw in this argument, there's still like. The Sealed Forest. You know, that moment when Byleth, not the player, chose to do something, of their own volition, and even against the wants of Rhea (the stand-in for fate, according to Edelstans)? Real funny how that never seems to ever be a factor in Edelstans' arguments about why Byleth needs Edelgard to learn how to make choices - they can do it just fine.

Just like they, Byleth, and not the player, chooses to side with Rhea and not Edelgard as the "default."

Like they NEVER seem to see that as a possibility! That Byleth CHOSE to side with Rhea! They say that's Byleth *~submitting to the whims of fate~* instead of giving Byleth any agency, because that would mean that Byleth would by default choose to defy Edelgard.

But you know what character does attribute Byleth's choosing Rhea as a result of their willful choices and agency?

I refer to an old screenshot:

The game is the one that is saying that Byleth actively and deliberately chose to go onto SS. Not only does nothing in the game support the idea that choosing Rhea/SS is something outside of Byleth's control/a result of strictly fate and nothing else, it literally says the complete opposite. But Edelstans are so hard-set on believing that Byleth can't be anything without Edelgard that they, ironically enough, force them to be by her side and deny any agency Byleth may have that takes them away from her. It's just... a sight to behold really lmao

#anti edelgard #anti-edelgard #edelgard critical #edelgard discourse #just to be safe #funnily enough they force Byleth to have exactly one path available for them to gain individuality on #which already by itself is hilarious. but the path they choose for that to happen is... the route where Byleth goes back #to being the detached expressionless swordhand they were at the start of the game #and not any of the routes where that uh. doesn't happen to them lmao #and this really does seem to stem primarily from Edelgard saying that CF isn't the path Byleth was meant to be on near the end of CF #like that's less of a red flag and more Edelgard directly turning to the audience and saying ''CF is not a good route''#but it gets turned into her being a poor lil' darling who doesn't feel she deserves Byweph uwu #meanwhile the supposed stand-in for fate straight up says that it... wasn't fate that ''made'' Byleth go on SS; it was their active choices #so that's um. awkward lmao

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deathbirby · 9 months

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I wonder what this could mean...

#fe3h #edelgard discourse #poor byleth #we know they have a low sense of self #inb4 people say the manga isnt canon #it would still have to be approved

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emblemxeno · 11 months

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At least in Fates, no one will try to defend Garon because he is a cute empress

The closest comparison that people make will be Conquest!Corrin, but even then, that game spares no efforts at making Corrin take responsibility and feel bad for what they do. They aren't victim blaming like Edelgard is wont to do, they get called out by named enemies frequently, and they actually feel for the people they've hurt, even the generics.

Like, I've seen people make fun of Corrin for crying over not just their loved ones but also civilians and complete strangers, because damn, god forbid a character not sympathize or be emotional over terrible things happening. Compare to Edelgard where she doesn't give one fuck about Randolph or Ladislava kicking the bucket, and really only cares if Byleth is in trouble, and the game then expects me to sympathize with how hard it must be for her lol.

#queue #fire emblem discourse #honestly you could do a play-by=play of Conquest and CF and you'd be able to see #how CF constantly likes to tell over show and doesn't let Byleth nor Edelgard suffer anything for what they do #meanwhile Conquest has material consequences as soon as chapter 11 (or even 10 with how Corrin's choice caused Takumi to get possessed)#then again CF is like an actual villain route and Conquest is supposed to be the “light within the darkness” path of Fates #so maybe im overthinking it lol

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wenja45 · 1 year

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Dimileth is way more popular than Edeleth

To the suprise of no one (except for Edelcultists) Dimileth is way more popular than Edeleth with tons more fanfics which ao3 is a big example of, more fanart, more fans and more discussions than Edeleth.

Fun fact both Dimitri and Claude have more fanfics than Edelgard separately with Dimitri being the most romanceble character in fanfics.

#edelgard critical #edelgard positive #edelgard discourse #edelgard von hresvelg #crimson flower #fire emblem #fire emblem three houses #dimitri alexandre blaiddyd #claude von riegan #edeleth #byleth #dimileth #dimilix

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dragongutsixofficial · 2 years

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Byleth is not defined by their OP powers and I will die on this hill

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cartoonnonsensegirl · 8 months

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My Fire Emblem: Three Houses Ending Ideas for Byleth

Some may have ships, others not.

Male Byleth

Verdant Wind: Becomes Claude's leading general and advisor. Could also serve as an ambassador to Almyra.

Azure Moon: Same as above, but for Dimitri. I think M!Byleth would go well with Mercedes.

Silver Snow: Becomes Archbishop. Either Mercedes or Flayn is his wife.

Crimson Flower: Can either be a general or an advisor. I'll let you know that I ship Edelgard with Hubert, so a marriage between her and M!Byleth is not on the table for me (and I do really like her character; I just personally can't separate her from Hubert in any way, shape, or form).

Female Byleth

Verdant Wind: May either marry Claude or remain one of his advisors (should Claude make Hilda his queen). Maybe even an ambassador to Almyra. (this one is hard, since Claude x Hilda makes more sense to me, yet I did marry Claude on my first playthrough)

Azure Moon: Becomes Dimitri's Queen.

Silver Snow: Becomes Archbishop. Possibly marries Seteth.

Crimson Flower: I'm still firmly in the Edelgard x Hubert camp, which brings me to my favorite idea: F!Byleth becomes her personal handmaiden/lady-in-waiting who tends to her, styles her hair, designs/makes her clothes, and will eventually become her midwife/nanny.

#fire emblem #fire emblem three houses #fe3h #byleth #byleth eisner #claude von riegan #dimitri alexandre blaiddyd #edelgard von hresvelg #headcanons #i'll admit i like some of the friendship endings #it depends on their phrasing #like the idea of bernadetta becoming edelgard's imperial counselor #i'll just assume edel's married to hubert #hilda and marianne keeping in touch is a great idea too #maybe hilda's still married to claude and marianne married lorenz...doesn't erase their friendship #plz no shipping discourse over mercie because i prefer her with male characters #just my personal beliefs is all #sit back and enjoy the queue

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raxistaicho · 8 months

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Something I feel is key to any discussion about why Jeralt might have acted so severely when it comes to Rhea is his personal experience with the woman, what he thinks of her, what he feels he owes her, and what she did for him that she didn't do for others, including Sitri.

In the first support with Rhea we learn from her personally that Jeralt would likely describe her as "frightening" and that she sincerely doubts Jeralt would ever call her "incredible." She's also hurt by the truth that he never mentioned her. Jeralt himself wrote that he thought the world of Rhea, but there is also significant evidence to suggest that Rhea is not close with anyone but Byleth. Catherine's jealousy of Byleth, Rhea's admission of lonliness, and Archbishop Rhea's event in Fire Emblem Heroes all speak to intentional personal isolation. Jeralt was probably about as close to Rhea as Catherine was. They don't actually know her, just her authority, strength, and how she saved them. (Faerghus born. You do as your leader tells you and dedicate yourself to them fully.)

300+ years by Rhea's side. Garreg Mach has existed for nearly 1000 years. Sitri is attempt 11 at creating a vessel for the Goddess. (12 is a significant number in this game, as it also relates to the Nemesis having 11 Elites, 10 known and 1 secret, Edelgard having 11 siblings, 10 known and 1 step sibling, and putting Byleth at 13th for the vessels, which breaks the trend, but still maintains associations with the Olympians, bad luck, betrayal, and the Death tarot card indicating a need for change just like with Sylvain.) Thematic trivia aside, even at 1 vessel every 100 years, Jeralt was witness to 3 attempts, possibly 4 (Sitri) at using Sothis' Crest Stone to create a vessel.

We don't know too much about the others, whether their lives were akin to Sitri's or if they died at birth, or even if they lived full lives. Two of those options, and assuming Rhea got better at making vessels over time, means Jeralt likely met some of them. This was, as stated by Rhea, her mission after all. That and keeping Fodlan at peace so she could bring Sothis back to it.

Jeralt doesn't seem the kind to really give a shit about the arcane or experimentation in general. I doubt he knows what the hell has been happening the whole time he's been alongside Rhea. He just knows that she is something very powerful. He warns Byleth not to trust her, and granted this is right after returning to Garreg Mach after running away because he doesn't trust her, it's equally important to recognise why Jeralt went back after all this time. He knows he doesn't have a choice. Alois found him and clocked that he has a child. That guy has a big mouth and Rhea would absolutely find out. Refusing her isn't something within his power to do or he wouldn't have stolen away into the night in the first place.

He doesn't really object to what the Church is doing, he did it for long enough, but he knows that he's outclassed by Rhea and doesn't have the power to refuse her. That's why he faked Byleth's death and informed Rhea before leaving instead of just taking the kid and running. (We know Jeralt doesn't leave until after the fire has been quelled because he is the one to tell her the news of Byleth's death.) She would have stopped them.

So what DOES Jeralt know about Rhea and her experimentation?

Well, a big thing is that Jeralt is very aware that he should be dead. That he died in a battle as a young man saving Rhea from death.

Rhea says that Jeralt was mortally wounded, and we don't know enough about what (pure) Nabatean blood can actually do to a person to say either way if a person needs to be alive for the resurrection to work, but the Elites and Nemesis were definitely dead if that helps confuse matters. (I mention pure Nabatean blood to disqualify Seteth, Flayn, and Seteth's brothers. We know for a fact that Rhea is directly related to Sothis, but neither Seteth, his brothers, or Flayn state a definite relationship to Rhea like they do with each other, or state a direct relationship to Sothis as Rhea does.)

Jeralt feels like he owes his life to Rhea right up until the events with Sitri and Byleth. She did save him after all and Faerghus goes a long way to instill ideas of eternal loyalty to a ruler/leader.

He knows, personally and for a fact that Rhea can bring people back from near death. Mortally wounded. Something seen as beyond exceptional in a world where 1hp is fixed up with healing magic no problem and Miracle exists. It also gave him a Major Crest. Something Jeralt doesn't seem as very keen on mentioning and definitely didn't make him start acting like one of the Goddess' chosen. He likely knew something was up even then, but not what it was.

Coupled with 300 years of working alongside a woman who also doesn't age, perpetuates a history of Crests being granted by the Goddess, which contradicts his lived experience, and the knowledge that Rhea is essentially an arbiter on who lives and who dies even from wounds so fatal that Faith magic was a lacking intervention. He's probably asking himself...

Why is Sitri dead?

What the hell could have happened in there that the Archbishop of over 300 years, the Goddess' most dedicated servant couldn't use Faith magic to prevent? What happened in there that was so severe the method Rhea used to save him all those years ago wasn't viable? Why didn't Rhea save his wife? He's been her Captain for several centuries! Sitri was akin to a daughter to Rhea! (Something very uncommon.) What profane thing could have stopped *her* from getting her way?

Then there's the matter of Byleth's heartbeat, how they don't cry, how they don't emote or fuss, or anything at all. Not to mention the fact that Byleth might possibly have a scar over their chest.

What does "traded her life for" *actually* mean? He doesn't know about the Crest Stone, but he knows Rhea can do *something* to save a life. But why would that be necessary? The line sounds like the death in childbirth was the exchange, but that shouldn't have killed someone in Rhea's care. Not according to all the information he has.

She has to have done something. He doesn't know what it is, but Rhea made the choice to exchange Sitri's life for Byleth's and now she's covetous of the child, telling Jeralt not to worry and having them watched.

Jeralt mentioning how Rhea reacted to Byleth's death is also telling.

"Lady Rhea was in a state over the news."

Lady Rhea wasn't in a state over Aelfric's death, or Jeralt's. I expect she wasn't in a state over Sitri's not because she doesn't care about her as much as she does Byleth, but due to the circumstances of Sitri's death, it was a request out of love.

So if Rhea is known to be hard to crack, and Jeralt believes her to be terrifying, and Rhea believes Jeralt should think she's terrifying, what other "states" does Rhea have? It must have been significant for Jeralt to be shaken and Rhea to understand that reaction even from someone who thought the world of her. It's probably nothing as severe as turning into the Immaculate One. But Rhea just lost access to her mother's Crest Stone. *The* thing she needs to bring Sothis back. The reason she's doing all of this! Echoes of "give it back" ring in my mind. She definitely did well to not degenerate right then. Possibly because Byleth's body would still be in Garreg Mach, and then later when she realised the deception, out there in the world guarded by the man who kept her safe for 300 years and loved his child enough to fake their death. The same man who cared for Sitri. Rhea would have needed to wait for Byleth to grow up anyway, and she, Jeralt and Byleth have nothing but time.

Back to Jeralt specifically. The veritable necromancer in his life didn't save his wife during a childbirth, seems to want to keep Byleth close, which can't be because they're Sitri's child otherwise, why not just save Sitri, y'know? So Sitri needed to die and Byleth is even stranger than their mother was.

Sitri also didn't emote to anyone but Jeralt (Crest of Seiros), but Byleth isn't emoting even for him. (*Heavy bias* but the trigger for Byleth was probably the proximity of another Crest of Flames.) So his child is even stranger than their mother, maybe even in the same way as the other vessels he incidentally met over the years.

Really the only conclusion Jeralt can draw is that Rhea did something to Byleth and Sitri. Traded their lives. Something beyond healing magic or whatever thing Rhea did to him. Something immense, beyond even the baseline be already has for her capable of granting an extended life and Crest. Something that might have been the reason Sitri could never leave the monastery. She was unwell, but Jeralt is a very capable man. Byleth seemed healthy, but the Church didn't seem willing to let them go.

It's not at all a stretch, even with the little Jeralt actually knows, to assume Rhea did something profound.

Not divine. At least not in any way she advertises.

Did she swap their souls? Something like that?

Did he find it strange later in life that Byleth didn't manifest his Crest of Seiros? Even if he didn't buy into the Goddess blessing, he must know through sheer exposure that Crests are inherited and that the further the bloodlines get from those originally "blessed" the likelihood goes down. As someone personally "blessed" with a Major Crest, Byleth not having one is an oddity itself.

Maybe that's what kept him away.

Jeralt didn't just leave. He stayed away. He stayed away for two decades, making the choice not to return every time he thought about it.

This wasn't just about whatever Rhea did, it was also about what Rhea might have done to Byleth, trapping them in Garreg Mach like she did to their mother, his wife.

And he was right. He saw the writing on the wall perfectly. Rhea actually giving such a shit about Byleth's "death" confirmed it in his mind. Rhea did something forbidden (confirmed by Seteth in FEH) and his child was the subject. He's even still fearful and that's why he lies to Rhea at first. "This is not Sitri's child. I know you care about them being Sitri's child. This isn't about me." Is basically what he's saying.

Make whatever excuses you will, but Rhea wasn't not going to try and have Sothis brought out in Byleth just because they stayed at the Monastery.

Imagine if Rhea had been the one to hear Byleth was dreaming of the war with Nemesis?

That kid is never ever leaving those halls. Jeralt be damned.

I think Rhea is a fantastic character, she's amazing, third only to Byleth and Edelgard in my mind. But don't for one second think her intention isn't Sothis first, Byleth second. That's why we went to the Holy Tomb.

Jeralt wasn't irrational. Rhea isn't suddenly "right" because the ritual with the throne didn't work. We actually don't even know if that's the case or if Sothis just beat Rhea to the punch and gave herself up to Byleth before the reverse was made to happen.

Her intention to have Sothis overtake Byleth was the thing Jeralt was detecting. The feasibility of that act is secondary to Rhea's sudden possible human sacrifice of the woman he loved. If someone looks like they're going to murder you, you don't say "let's see how this plays out." You take precautions, and his theory was validated enough by Rhea's reaction to Byleth's faked death and was enough to keep him away every day afterwards.

If the ritual at the Holy Tomb had worked, killing Jeralt might have been the Slither's most colossal fuck up, because he might have been the only person besides Edelgard to have enough knowledge to even think about intervening.

Bonus Jeralt theory. Jeralt doesn't align with any nation anymore. He doesn't wear any of their colours. However, the closest match is the Alliance. Why? Well, Jeralt was born over 300 years ago and served the Faerghus military, however, his homeland very well might have been one of the ones that broke off into the Alliance after he had already joined Rhea.

Since he then goes on to live in Remire, Jeralt could be one of the only characters to have relevant ties to all three nations.

The separation of his homeland from the Kingdom might also has served to make him disinterested in the idea of sovereignty or the idea that Fodlan even has nations worth mentioning since they can just *change* whenever. Again, something we see happen in the game itself as Fodlan reunifies in what would have been his lifespan had Kronya not cut it... long? Either way, it explains why he does not care where he was from or bother to explain anything to Byleth, it's all immaterial if you live long enough. (Which also reflects Rhea's view of Fodlan.)

(Apologies for writing you another novel. I hope you don't mind, I'm incapable of brevity. I just think the idea Jeralt overreacted with the amount of context he had about Rhea's abilities, especially since he was 100% correct, is silly. Also the Crest of Seiros is The High Priestess and that's all about trusting your intuition, which is what he did, and he dies soon after he second-guesses his decision. Theming!)

Nah, don't worry, that was all very interesting! :) Thanks for sharing your thoughts and analysis!

#fire emblem three houses #edelgard discourse #edelgard positive #jeralt reus eisner #rhea #byleth eisner #sitri

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theia-eos · 1 year

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Reasons Why I want to nominate Claude's parents as the worst parents of the Fódlan characters

I know, I know, it's a pretty high bar (low bar?), considering the other contenders, especially since only one has a name and neither are seen in either Three Houses or Three Hopes.

However, I would not jump into this discussion without evidence.

Spoilers beyond the cut.

In Three Houses, during his B Support with Hilda, he talks about his parents, particularly how they would raise/punish him.

In case you missed it, he discusses being dragged along behind a horse by his father.

His mother would laugh as it happened.

I know he rationalizes it as having been a brat as a kid, but there is absolutely nothing he could have done that would have justified BEING DRAWN, which was part of one of the most inhumane execution methods of the medieval ages and is only associated with torture historically.

Edit to add: Claude states that there is a trick to make the horse punishment less severe than it sounds. He doesn't state if he learned the trick himself after being drawn a few times, if he was taught the trick by an older sibling who went through the same thing, or another person. We also are given no context for how the punishment was carried out, whether it was on a soft grassy surface with no rocks, or a hard, rocky surface, or the duration of the dragging. Claude's first statement does imply that it happened multiple times ("He used to" instead of "one time he"). We do not know if Claude sustained serious injuries, but any combination of scrapes/bruises/rope burn are pretty much guaranteed simply by the nature of the action, and that alone is worse physical injury intentionally inflicted on a child in the game by any parent on more than one occasion, that I am aware of.

And as if that were not bad enough, we get this little gem in Three Hopes:

Where Nader says that Khalid (aka Claude) was the favorite son of the king.

The favorite.

Let that sink in.

Favorites are generally given preferential treatment by the parents. Look at how Claude was treated again, and now look to his other siblings, like Shahid, who fights and dies trying to earn recognition from his father and to be acknowledged as a good heir to the throne. And Claude has more siblings.

I rest my case.

I will grant Count Varley and Margrave Gautier second and third place in the #1 Worst Father category, but King of Almyra tops the scale in a way that is almost impossible to imagine.

Patricia (Edelgard's mother and Dimitri's Step-Mother) may or may not beat Tiana (Claude's mother) for #1 Worst Mother, and Patricia may take overall #1 Worst Parent from King Almyra, depending on her ambiguous and not yet completely disclosed involvement with TWSiTD, the Tragedy, and what happened to Edelgard/Edelgard's siblings, but otherwise, I feel pretty safe with my nomination.

Edit for clarification: I would have loved to have actually met Tiana or the King of Almyra in either game. Most of the parents in the game are presented as good, but flawed, people. They just also happen to be terrible parents. Claude's parents could be great people, beloved rulers, and well-respected in Almyra. Despite my feelings on the matter, Claude seems to like his parents. That doesn’t mean they were good parents. In fact, I still believe they are the worst parents outside of actual villainous parents. Also, because this entry is a game with more fan engagement than what I usually discuss, I feel the need note that I'm not commenting on their parenting in relation to Almyra or Almyra's culture. I'm just commenting on how objectively terrible it is to drag a child along the ground behind a horse, and to laugh at that child in the process. I'll stand by that opinion.

#claude von riegan #fe three hopes #fe three houses #Fe meta #fe claude #Taking fantasy settings too seriously #He says that line so jovially too #His smile really never does reach his eyes #He is masking his pain so hard #The impact having a year under Byleth and having a mentor to rely on for support and personal growth #Vs having Shez who is a peer/employee and having to war against his own brother on Claude's beliefs and motivations and persona #I could go on for years about Claude von Riegan #But I'm not yet ready to hyperfixate on the lore of Fodlan #One day #Mark my words #I WILL switch from Tellis brainrot to Fodlan brainrot one day #And then the Claude discourse will never end #But today is not that day

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bowbowis · 1 year

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Why Edelgard's "Cute" Moments are Important

Something I see brought up repeatedly as a criticism of Edelgard/Crimson Flower is that Edelgard doesn't have an arc and/or is undermined by the writers adding scenes of her being cute to make her marketable as a "waifu". Both of these criticisms seem to stem from an inability to recognize Edelgard's arc for what it is and how those "cute" moments factor into it. Now, I'm not suggesting that Edelgard isn't intended to appeal to people who are attracted to women, of course she is, all the lords are intended to appeal to people of compatible orientations, but simply dismissing Edelgard "gap-moe waifu bait" is reductive and does as much of a disservice to her character and the themes of her route as dismissing Dimitri and Claude as "'troubled-but-I-can-fix-him'/Lovable Rogue husbando bait" would to theirs.

An essential component of Edelgard's character is that she has nobody to provide her with emotional support (Hubert is, by his own admission, not equipped for such a role) so she coped with her trauma and her need to make sacrifices for a better future by suppressing her feelings and adopting the persona of a haughty princess/ruthless emperor as a defense mechanism. She admits as much to Byleth in their A-Support:

Edelgard: I can't deny [I'm 'rather detached' too]. Ever since I underwent those... procedures, I've certainly distanced myself from the ordinary world.

The whole conceit of "The Edge of Dawn" is that Edelgard cherishes her academy days because they make her feel normal again and wishes they could last forever, but she still has to put up a false front because she is not innocent to the horrors of the world and feels compelled to correct them even at the cost of her own happiness.

If Byleth and the Black Eagles choose to side with her at the Holy Tomb she finally able to close the distance she had to maintain during the school year and start processing her emotions instead of simply shoving them aside. She tells Byleth in their B-Support how their influence has enabled her overcome her loneliness, step out from behind the mask, and be her true self again:

Edelgard: I want to thank you. Because of you, I feel I can walk my fated path without losing myself. If I were alone, I might have lost perspective and become a harsh leader with a heart of ice. But I'm not alone. With you by my side, I'm somehow free to be not only a leader but... simply Edelgard. Until now, no one has been able to surpass me— much less command me. I have always been seen as an untouchable princess or emperor. No one spoke to me as an equal or met my gaze without flinching.

That is what her "cute" moments represent. Unlike other routes, Crimson Flower features an Edelgard who didn't allow herself to be consumed by her mask and her mission. Instead of burying her true self she is able to open up again and start reconnecting with the normal girl she used to be. It's no coincidence that despite her insistence that "the Edelgard who shed tears died many years ago", the final scene of her route (closing narration and S-Support notwithstanding) ends with her openly weeping. Thanks to Byleth "the Edelgard who shed tears" came back to life.

#fire emblem #three houses #fire emblem three houses #edelgard von hresvelg #crimson flower #edelgard discourse #edelgard positive #There's actually quit a bit to be said about how her arc mirrors byleth's across parts #maybe that will be another post

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