I think there is something inherently problematic about spending a dedicated amount of time ripping apart not only two characters, but their fans and the actors that play them. While continuing to promote and compare them to your favorites.

I mean, you can do whatever you want, honestly. That's the beauty of tumblr. But unless you are gaining something from surrounding yourself in constant negativity, I honestly don't get it.

"Work, skills and traits that have traditionally been seen as characteristics of and appropriate for women shouldn't be derided or minimised in favour of skills and traits associated with men, and should be respected"

is a valid point, but so is;

"women shouldn't be forced to stick to work, skills and traits that are traditionally seen as womanly, even if they are valuable and important to society, and they have every right to resent and dislike a societal role and code of behaviour that has been inflicted on them regardless of ability, interest or inclination, because of something as arbitrary as gender".

Period heroines complaining about needlework and housekeeping, and fantasy heroines dreaming of sword fighting and adventures, are not a problem, and actually do give voice to the many women in the world who didn't and still don't fit into what society has decided women should be.

My contribution to the Wank-A-Thon!

The scene is 2x04 - Colin gets back from visiting the Cranes and thinks about Marina's words about Penelope.

I think the lines that people draw in terms of which character’s actions they accept and which they find irredeemable is actually objectively really interesting…

https://www.tumblr.com/olderthannetfic/740123102285086720/all-the-griping-about-ownvoices-claiming-to?source=share

Re: your response:

It's interesting because in the DS9 slash shipping fandom and particularly with Garashir, a lot of people DO write Julian Bashir, a character of color as their perfect woobie they projected on to - he probably gets that more than any other character in that fandom. And then there ended up being a backlash that people were "writing him as white," including in an actual academic paper I saw from someone who is on Tumblr, while they were willing to explore writing him as fully queer and neurodivergent headcanons in fic.

Which is interesting to me because most of the stuff that writes him as queer is stuff that just ships him with Garak or another dude, but doesn't spend a ton of time on his queer *identity*. And I'm personally fine with that; I've read enough coming-out stories and didactic identity explanations in both fic and professionally published/released original work to last me a lifetime. But if writing a COC without drawing attention to their racial/ethnic/cultural identity is "writing them as white," shouldn't writing a non-heterosexual character without drawing attention to their queer identity similarly count as "writing them as straight"?

Anyway, I go back and forth on this because I also understand how Islamophobia and general racism against MENA works, how the "good Muslim" or "good Arab" is one who is as assimilated as possible, and how it can feel with fic that has a COC but doesn't go into their background like that person is only ok with POC *up to a point*. As well as the issues with how in canon, Star Trek's diversity shows a lot of POC but has only started to recognize actual non-Western "cultural" touchstones very recently. (E.g. When they referenced literature, it was always Shakespeare or the ancient Greeks or Poe, never the Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Rumi.) I get that. At the same time, I've definitely read stuff especially by non-MENA people which wrote about "his culture" in a very exotifying way that seemed to suggest that that kind of cultural identity is only "real" if it happens in a very stereotypical way. And I also think especially with a character who is so heavily framed as British, with a British accent, played by an actor who is half-English and grew up there.... I've also seen the brainworms in fandoms from Star Wars to Bridgerton with how people can't accept European characters/actors of color as European, and I do wish people would consider how they're suggesting that English identity can only be "white" by acting like it's wrong to ever portray Bashir as English. Something I've heard plenty of British POC complain about as like an attitude in their country that actually harms them.

I think these questions are complicated, because you have racist phenomena on both ends. There definitely are racists who only accept POC if they are as un-POC as possible, if they are assimilated, and see them wearing or saying or doing things that mark them as culturally different as "threatening." But there are other racists who think the only right way to write "diverse stories" is to have them be heavily cultural and represent stereotypes - the poor, urban black American, the Arab who lives in the desert and wears a thawb and is a devout Muslim - and that POC who are not like that talking about their own lives are somehow not "authentic enough." The thing that the movie American Fiction is about.

--

Yeah. Fandom isn't nearly as bad about characters of color overall as some wank would say. Fandom fucking loves Asian characters who are the unmarked leads of Asian media (and no, I don't think it's just because they're pale or because some idiots in the 90s thought anime characters were white).

Bashir was treated in canon in a way that fandom likes. Naturally, fandom took note.

My own woobie blorbo is Rico from Miami Vice. He's much less the single perfect tear woobie than Sonny (his buddy cop partner who is white), but he still comes in for lots of whump and screen time and narrative focus. Ye Olde zine fandom was unkind to him, at least in the m/m parts (though a lot of that is because all of the old slash zines were edited by the same couple who were... like... kinning the ship that he's a rival to).

But a lot of fans who watch that show see a very pretty, very cultured man with epic buddy cop tension with his partner, nice suits, and tons of whump plots, and they're like "God damn, where is the fic???" If canon provides, the fannish interest will be there to at least some degree. (Getting enough good writers in the same fandom at the same time to launch it as a place readers will stick around is another story, unfortunately.)

My personal view, admittedly as a white girl, is that Sturgeon's Law means what we really need is a bunch of canons that dangle tasty blorbos at us and much less policing of fic. And then a solid reccing culture to sort through the bad stuff.

I've seen a lot of complaints about writing characters as "white", and they often strike me as clueless or disingenuous. I'd rather have a bunch of "Oopsie, Garak caught Bashir using the holodeck for kinky roleplay about himself" fics than people with no clue trying to inject MENA stuff that wasn't in the show and that they aren't personally competent to handle. And half the time, this complaint seems to be some sort of unintentionally racist bilge where the speaker thinks the fic is making someone too cultured or too upper class or too kinky or some other shit that has nothing to do with anything.

Honestly, I sometimes think that the real complaint is "How dare fandom sound like the upper-middle class suburbanite bookworms that so many of us are?!?!"

Benedict is sure he will choke here scrawled across the table as he is. Oh how his ribs and throat ache so great is his laughter. It is an affront to his brother's dwindled dignity to be sure but he has lost control of himself. His virgin brother bragging about his cock, as if he has used it for more than wanking. That idiot boasting about the amount of seed he produces, what is he comparing it to? What could have possessed him to say such things? Sweet heavens, his little brother wants Miss Featherington to think him pretty and admire his bottom. He will never, ever let him live this down. Twenty years from now he will be telling his sons and nephews this story, he swears. He had not thought it possible for Colin to embarrass and shame himself further, he was wrong so very wrong. When he finally gathers himself he notices the offense on Colin blushing face. Oh dear someone does not like having the object of his affections accusing him of having a mental illness. Oh no, he is going to start laughing again. Eloise wonders if Colin is a foundling, for surely she cannot be related to someone so profoundly simple minded. While she knows that Pen's latest letter was more subtle mockery and warning than anything else, perhaps she is right. Could excessive drinking have left her brothers with diminished mental capacities? It would explain so much about their antics. After all Anthony spent all season bickering with Kate who is such a sensible woman, he was clearly in the wrong. Then a bee lands on her and he pounced on her to suckle at her chest in an effort to save her? What a ridiculous excuse. Benedict is her favorite brother but she is not blind to his issues. She is sure he is some sort of nudist for he is always sneaking home barely dressed. Now Colin, after years of trying to steal Penelope from her grasp, this is how he is going to treat her. In comparison all the sisters are intelligent as is little Greggory. She will ensure he doesn't drink when he grows, it would be grand to have a smart brother. Really this theory would explain so much about gentlemen and their lack of rational. Mother stands looking over to Anthony she tiredly asked, "Can you handle this? Please, I am too ashamed of his conduct to look at him just yet." Yes, she decides there is nothing like maternal guilt to shame a naughty son, and really she can see Anthony winding up for a long lecture. Serves him right. "Come Eloise, we shall take tea in the garden. We must speak on a discrete matter."

The problem with some fandom people is that they believe that female characters can either be Georgiana Pearson (only in it for power and personal satisfaction) or Justine Greene (only want to help others, even if it is in their own detriment). There is no in between.

But as amazing as the Georgianas and Justines of the world are, they are sadly few and far in between. Most female darlings of the fandom fit the mold of Evie Jenner, Jessica Mcgale or Hyacinth Bridgerton. And there is nothing wrong with that*, but there is something very wrong with trying to see a character as something she isn't just so you can love/hate her easier.

*Well, there is something wrong for me, because I love my Georgianas and Justines far more than I love the Evies, Jessicas or Hyacinths that populate most books, shows and movies.

This post was brought to you by Artemis' Historical Romance brainrot meets ASOIAF fandom wank.

Based on your tweets fandom policing is bad. Except that you are absolutely alright with it when its your friends is that so?

A few brushes with some online drama have made me incredibly reticent. I don’t want to engage with any discourse (or, as a friend puts it, fandom wank, because “discourse” implies that people are actually conversing and trying to comprehend one another, rather than just everything wanking off and yelling in their own little spheres).

I’m trying to refocus my online presence to simply enjoying time with my buddies and chatting about our fav lil fictional characters, writing, and more. I know there’s things occurring in the Bridgerton fandom on what feels like a daily basis. I don’t need to comment on any or all of them. I honestly don’t have time to comment on any or all of them. The people close to me know how I feel and if you yourself are curious, you’re welcome to send me a DM and we can talk.

In an effort to extend you some grace and operate in good faith, I’m going to assume that this message wasn’t mean spirited. I think that social media and the way it’s evolved in the past decade has made it seem like it’s very important that everyone has something to say at all times. It’s not! We’re humans and we’re not meant to be commenting on five thousand new pieces of information a second. It’s a lot.

Anyways, I hope this makes sense and I do honestly, genuinely mean it; if you’d like to have a proper convo, my DMs are open.

Her sex life with Joe must’ve been really really shit specially near the end for her to masturbate let alone masturbate with Matty inside her head.

”her sex life must’ve been shit for her to masturbate” … WHAT!??? Guys besties masturbating is very demonstrably healthy. There have been a LOT of studies done on that. Wanking is literally good for you. Even if you have a partner, wanking is good for you. And if you do have a partner, try wanking with them and watching what they do because sometimes you get really good ideas that way and honestly it’s hot af. Also, you’re allowed to and should be comfortable indulging fantasy. Wanking to porn or idk Bridgerton or pics of your favorite celeb or whatever isn’t weird or wrong or indicative of a bad sex life.

wanking to pics of your ex is… a choice one could certainly make 😬😬😬

I cannot believe I have to say this, but to the people who have alternative reasons to spread discord in the fandom- it is completely possible for fans of a certain character or ship to also be aware that these are characters whose reasons for their actions and words touch on the entire range of human emotion. All of which has a basis not only in the character's insecurities, but the constraints of the time period the show is set in.

Literally every character has distinct flaws. Your favorite has them, you've just decided they are palatable to you personally.

s2 Bridgerton not mentioning Siena at all while Anthony is constantly chasing after romance he cannot actually have makes it really seem like he just likes what he can't have rather than is so in love with Kate over her sister he decided was perfect and is engaged to :/:/

Complaining about female characters who don’t fit into feminine stereotypes or claiming that they’re basically men is not the feminist take that you think it is.

i love historical costuming and historical dress as much as the next annoying internet nerd, but i feel like when a piece of media is creating an “alternate history” or some other slanted version of the world, no one can do an “accuracy” assessment of the fashion. 

“but it takes place in this year in this location!!!” yeah in an alternate reality where all the rules are different. the world they created literally doesn’t exist. you can’t say if it’s accurate or not.

if you think it’s ugly, that’s fair. you’re allowed to have whatever aesthetic opinions you want, but whining in the name of accuracy? please stop. 

This is another fic for Wank Fest!

The scene is from 1x08 - Colin is singing and he and Penelope exchange glances.

the people who were saying edwina can’t be gay because that would disrespect her storyline with bagwell and the people who are now excited for bagwell’s (supposed, not confirmed) replacement by another straight white dude are the same people

ding ding ding!

I’ve seen a few people hating sweet bean Edwina because of this love triangle set up.

I love Anthony Bridgerton, that boy is my son:

but he was the horn dog in this situation.

He had no business courting Edwina when he was wanking over Kate every night.