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omnipotent-scient · 1 month

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Personally, I've always perceived Rhaenyra as an entitled brat. That was sort of how she was portrayed in the book. Daemon was pretty nasty as well, as he groomed Rhaenyra. He was teaching her "how best to touch a man to bring him pleasure," if Mushroom is to be believed.

I am inclined to believe Mushroom.

I think most of Rhaenyra's behaviors at Daemon's fault, but I do think that Rhaenyra is mad as she wanted to torture her little brother for calling her bastard children 'bastards'. That isn't sane behavior, and nothing really excuses it. Aemond really was defending himself.

Alicent should have asked for Rhaenyra's boys to be swatted on the hands wooden spoon a good few times, not an eye. (Lucerys should not have had a dagger. Why would a child need a dagger?)

I don't think anyone thought Rhaenyra was still heir after Aegon was born. Viserys literally broke the laws of the entire realm for her.

War was inevitable, and there was nothing Rhaenyra could have done aside from marrying her infant brother.

I don't know if you've been asked something like this before. I also have no idea if the background to my question makes sense, but do you think there was any way Rhaenyra could have become Queen without breaking laws, murdering kin, and or bloodshed?

Who started breaking laws? —The Greens

Who started murdering kin?—The Greens

Who started bloodshed?— The Greens

In a monarchy, which Westeros is and has been for THOUSANDS of years the king's words is the law. Not that of his predecessors, but of the present ruling monarch.

Viserys named his 8 year old daughter as his heir, he varied from custom yes, but never broke law. HE IS THE LAW.

Viserys also broke custom by marrying Alicent, a daughter of a second son and not a ruling lord. A woman that could not give him anything of importance, not money, not a fleet, not any great allegiance. He married her simply because loved her. Being the second time he broke CUSTOM for a woman he loved. Rhaenyra and Alicent.

Even if Viserys allowed his 16 year old daughter to be wed to her 6 year old brother, you think that would prevent war? You people are simply stupid if you think so. Aegon (Otto & Alicent) could easily imprison Rhaenyra and simply put it out as she died, or simply even just end her life. And obviously with their children being young(if they had any, very unlikely) Aegon could crown himself as king rather than prince consort. And do you really think Alicent would let her precious son be king consort to a wanton woman? We see this with Jaehaerys' children Daenerys and Aemon.

I don't think anyone thought Rhaenyra was still heir after Aegon was born. Viserys literally broke the laws of the entire realm for her.

The Blacks? Literally many at court more than even the Greens supported Rhaenyra as heir. Even afterwards, during the war Rhaenyra had much more supporters than Aegon, even after her death.

Rhaenyra is mad as she wanted to torture her little brother for calling her bastard children 'bastards'. That isn't sane behavior, and nothing really excuses it. Aemond really was defending himself. Alicent should have asked for Rhaenyra's boys to be swatted on the hands wooden spoon a good few times, not an eye.

Right, Rhaenyra insisting for Aemond to be questioned sharply is mad but Alicent asking for a five year old's eye to be cut out is perfectly sane behaviour, yes? Be serious right now. Do you really think Viserys out of all people would let his son be tortured? Rhaenyra knew of that, she wanted Aemond to admit that his mother, Alicent has been spreading rumours abt easy as that.

It wasn't just for the insults either, Luke's nose was broken, Jace was hit in the head. And Joff was thrown into dragon droppings.

Afraid that the boy would raise the alarm, Prince Aemond shouted at him to be quiet, then shoved him backward into a pile of dragon droppings.

Aemond fought back, breaking Luke’s nose with a punch, then wrenching the sword from Joff’s hands and cracking it across the back of Jace’s head, driving him to his knees. As the younger boys scrambled back away from him, bloody and bruised, the prince began to mock them, laughing and calling them “the Strongs.”

Jace at least was old enough to grasp the insult. He flew at Aemond once again, but the older boy began pummeling him savagely…until Luke, coming to the rescue of his brother, drew his dagger and slashed Aemond across the face, taking out his right eye.

Aemond was TEN. Jace was SIX, Luke FIVE, Joff only THREE.

A 10 year old Pummeling (= boxing, repeatedly puching) and 6 year old is a perfectly good thing to do.

Lucerys should not have had a dagger. Why would a child need a dagger?

Because this child, is a prince? Almost everyone had daggers at that time, Kings, Queens, Princes, Princesses, Ladies, Lords, Commonborn, every one had daggers. They carried it for personal protection, even Lucerys.

Не was teaching her "how best to touch a man to bring him pleasure," if Mushroom is to be believed. I am inclined to believe Mushroom.

Even then, if Rhaenyra is such an 'entitled brat' why would she want to please the son of a steward of a Lord. And that too, not even a major Lord. Why would she want to please a no-one that became a someone because of HER.

Personally, I've always perceived Rhaenyra as an entitled brat. That was sort of how she was portrayed in the book.

She was portrayed as spoiled, yes. How could she not be? She came after many miscarriages and stillbirth, many other losses in the family. To her parents she was their first daughter, both of them motherless on their own. To Baelon, she was his first granddaughter after the loss of this wife, son, aemon and the rest of his siblings. To Jaehaerys and Alysanne, she was probably the first great-grandchild they met, she came after they lost most of their children (+Jocelyn who was as good as daughter, Rhaenys and probably never met her children till the feast and tourney of 98). She was a light in a time where her family was sinking from the inside.

I don't know how fighting for something that is yours, and have been for over TWENTY YEARS is seen as entitlement rather advocating and defending her own right?

There is someone who is portrayed as entitled, however. Alicent Hightower. Who thought simply because she popped out the King's son, means he should become a king. And this son who thought simply because he was a man with a cock, he was more fit to rule than a daughter without a cock.

Why should I explain the basic of things to strangers as if they're 5 and lack comprehension? Lol😭

#canon rhaenyra targaryen #canon asoiaf #canon alicent hightower #a song of ice and fire #aegon iii targaryen #house targaryen #queen rhaenyra #rhaenyra targaryen #alicent hightower #Aegon iii #the dance of the dragons #Blacks vs Greens #rhaenyra vs aegon

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walled-flwr · 2 years

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Our sweet prince, Lucerys Velaryon

Be calm. Obey. Serve.

Even through his fear, he was brave & gentle with his young dragon.

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mejcinta · 3 months

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Hating ambition in characters is a funny thing when you're a self proclaimed awoiaf fan.

I mean, hate them or love them, it is the personal ambitions of characters that really spices up a story, builds conflict between them and enriches their dynamics with complexity.

#house of the dragon #fire and blood #blacks vs greens #alicent vs rhaenyra #aegon vs rhaenyra #otto hightower

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muadweeb · 1 year

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WHEN WOMEN RULED: LADIES OF THE AFTERMATH BY ARCHMAESTER ABELON

JOHANNA LANNISTER capably led the remnants of the shattered Lannister forces in the ongoing conflict with the Greyjoys raiding the coasts, which continued as essentially a localized war even though the Dance had formally ended.

SAMANTHA TARLY was so politically influential that she was considered the functional co-ruler of Oldtown.

SHARIS FOOTLY ruled and rebuilt the devastated town as regent for her son, who was born after the death of her husband.

ALYS RIVERS was the former lover of Prince Aemond Targaryen and was seen to be pregnant in his presence. She later presented a young boy she claimed to be his posthumous son. As Harrenhal was at the heart of the devastated riverlands, Alys gathered to her a growing following of broken men until she established a small bandit-kingdom around the burnt-out castle.

SABITHA FREY went on to organize Widow Fairs for the hundreds of commoner women left widowed by the war, hoping to match them with the over a thousand men from the Stark army who had stayed in the south rather than overburden the North during the harsh winter. Her rule was stable enough by 134 AC that she was able to contribute six hundred soldiers to the royal host sent to end the succession war in the Vale of Arryn.

LADY JEYNE ARRYN, who ruled the Vale of Arryn in her own right since before the war began, and served as as member of the council of seven regents appointed for King Aegon III, from its inception in 131 AC until she died from an illness in 134 AC.

ELENDA BARATHEON served as regent for her son Royce Baratheon, who was born one week after his father died.

PRINCESS ALIANDRA MARTELL, who succeeded her father Qoren at the age of seventeen as the ruler of Dorne in the years following the war.

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houseofpendragons · 1 year

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I'm sure you've seen this a thousand time before but I hate that they made Aegon a rapist!!!

I love what they did with the show, I loved every thing, and I mean everything...except how they handled Aegon's character. They had so much potential with his character like if this is a show about 2 opposing sides, the Fandom should be split and conflicted about who they want on the throne (I have to support Rhaenyra simply due to the fact that Aegon is a rapist; even though I was team black from the books anyways but you understand what I mean)

Theu could have made it so that he was back from a night of drinking & whoring at a brothel, or maybe some serving girl he got pregnant (as it was rumored that he had two bastard children in the same year the twins were born) is asking for money to support the baby and he says no, or my personal favorite make it so that Dyana didn't say no bc she felt like she HAD TO SAY YES bc he's a prince. Like make it a parallel to Rhaenyra/Ser Criston Cole situation (bc that's how I interpreted it. I saw him looking at that door like he was thinking bout bolting but it would have been her word against his and she was his Princess so he felt like he really had no choice)

I feel like we should have seen a lot of parallels between Rhaenyra and Aegon. She wants the throne but it is take away from her bc she is a woman, Aegon doesn't want the throne but it is forced upon him bc he's a male. All Rhaenyra wanted was for Viserys to see her when she was little, Aegon wants the same thing now or at least he used to. Just make it so that they find different ways to cope; hers are healthy and his are self destructive.

And don't get me started on that child fighting pit, like what was the point. I would have much rather it been just seeing the children around Kings Landing instead of that bs. Or if they did decide to do that make it so Daemon went to bc as much as I love him he wasn't all that good just as he wasn't all that bad either. Idk I even saw a spoiler at one point for episode 9 that turned out to be false and it said that Aegon was found hiding with one of his bastards and that would have been cool if earlier like I said he had sent said mother away when she asked for money but then found comfort with his bastard child.

I also like how Rhaenyra very much embraces the Targaryen customs and all that (same for Aemond) and Aegon seems genuinely disgusted with it like he cut his hair short in open rebellion and even seemed repulsed at the thought of marrying his sister and I think it's bc that's what he genuinely see her as, his sister.

I think they should have kept him pervy like how we saw with Ty Tennents Aegon, and then as the series goes on and he slowly starts to go insane he gradually gets worse and worse and could then become a rapist, again parallel Rhaenyra who also gets worse and worse with insanity due to all of her grief and is even compared to Maegor (maegor with teats). It says that no serving girl was safe bc he would pinch and fondle, not rape. Again should have waited until later in the series. Instead they went with mushrooms story, mushroom who was a) known to make stuff up and overly sexualize everything, and b) wasn't even in Kings Landing.

Okay that's all, it just really irks me. He and Rhaenyra should have been parallels (and maybe have had at least a conversation😭) so that you are conflicted over who you want to win and are equally devastated as we see them sink into insanity and bad morals and actions.

(Also I saw something that showed Aegon was staring at Daemon and rhaenyra during the dinner scene and when I saw that I thought it's bc that's what he longs for and something he will never have 😭)

#aegon ii #aegon ii targaryen #aegon targaryen #aegon the elder #princess rhaenyra #princess rhaenyra targaryen #rhaneyra targaryen #queen rhaenyra #team black #Team green #blacks vs greens #the blacks vs the greens #Hotd #house of the dragon #House of the dragon thoughts #hotd thoughts

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alicentes · 2 years

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House of the dragon, a summary:

#the king of denial #viserys targaryen #blacks vs greens #house of the dragon #hotd

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destroyerofnations92 · 4 months

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Teaser 'up unto the overturned keel'

Here is a short snippet of chapter two of 'up unto the overturned keel', the first of hopefully many stories that will be posted on my new Patreon, starting December 31, 2024.

───※ ·♛· ※───

“Prince Daemon, this is treason! How dare–

The Hand was cut off by a strong left backhand to the face, sending the Hightower knight sprawling.

“Daemon!”

“I will not be interrupted nor spoken to like that by this little man,” Daemon told his brother, “Harrold!”

At once, the door opened and the impressive knight stepped into the chambers, “My Prince?”

“Take the Hand to the empty chambers across from my brother’s. He is not to leave, nor to receive any visitors.”

Ser Harrold nodded, “Yes, my prince,” and for the second time that day the Westerman’s hand was slapped away by an irate and humiliated Hand, who refused his aid and instead clambered up from the floor by himself, blood trickling down his chin from where his lip had been split.

As the door closed, Daemon merely poured himself a drink – only one – and sat in his armchair, overlooking the grand model of Valyria his brother and king had been building for the past few years.

“I never cared about your peacocking, brother. I knew my place. Your choices were yours. If you wanted to throw feasts and tourneys and strut around with your ugly crown, that was your prerogative,” Daemon began, looking at his brother for the first time since stepping foot in his chambers, “You chose to keep your deceitful and ambitious Hand, rather than appoint me, the man who won you that crown, and I said nothing. You dismissed me from two council offices within six moons at that snake’s urging, and I said nothing.”

“Daemon–

“Let me finish, brother,” Daemon asked.

Upon Viserys inclining his head, the prince continued, “You may believe the lords voted for you because of your pretty eyes or the tiny cock between your legs, but it was me that made you king. It was their fear of my butchering those who stood in your way, their fear of me burning their lands and their keeps, of me killing our cousin and taking the throne by force if need be, that won you that crown.”

Viserys had always felt deeply angered and inferior when those around him mentioned how important his brother had been to his ascension – Aemma, Rhaenys and even Lord Beesbury – but now that it was just the two of them, he could not find the strength to deny any of it, “I know, Daemon.”

“Then why do you renounce me? I have done nought but love you. I have fought for you and I have bled for you, yet you cast me aside every time.”

Viserys lowered his eyes, uncomfortable at hearing how emotional his brother was.

“Your son is dead,” Daemon whispered.

Viserys’ breath hitched and his heartbeat stuttered, “How?”

“He was too small, and seemed sickly and blue upon brought forth from the womb. He was unable breathe on his own. There was little the midwives or Orwyle could do. He died only minutes after he was born,” Daemon chose to give his brother honesty, “Aemma survived. Only barely though. If not for the midwives I had summoned she would have followed him into the grave,” Daemon uttered coldly, “You were about to sacrifice your wife for a son.”

At that Daemon turned to him and Viserys was taken aback by the coldness in his eyes, “It was not like that, Daemon. I had no choice. I had a dream.”

“A dream?” Daemon mocked him, “Please do tell what you saw in this dream, Your Grace.”

A light shone brightly in the king’s eyes, as if entranced, ignoring his brother’s sarcasm, “A son being born wearing the Conqueror’s Valyrian steel crown. A son born amidst the clashing of swords, charging of cavalry, and roaring of dragons.”

“Dreams are warnings, Viserys. Portents from the Gods,” Daemon sneered at him, “To warn us of calamity that is to come.”

“A son is needed. You don’t understand, brother,” Viserys paced in front of the fireplace, nearly pulling all his hair out, “I must have a son,” the king turned to his brother and stared him straight in the eye, in the hopes he understood the direness of his words, “From my blood come the prince that was promised and his will be the song of ice and fire.”

“Heir.”

“What?” Viserys was confounded by Daemon’s single-worded reply.

“From my blood cometh the Heir that was promised and theirs shall be the song of ice and fire,” Daemon whispered, “You are confusing your High Valyrian with the Common Tongue. Our ancestors did not differentiate between man and woman, and as such had near to no gendered words.”

Viserys was baffled, “How…?”

“The old man may have believed that you were the right choice for king, but even he was not foolish enough to think that you would ever be the one fighting these wars,” Daemon elaborated, “He told me mere weeks after the Council. He summoned me to these same chambers, showed me the dagger and demanded I vow to protect you and the House of the Dragon.”

Viserys was dumbstruck. His brother knew of the prophecy and had pulled the rug out from underneath him.

“His arrogance was astounding,” Daemon sneered, “His choices are what weakened our house, yet it was my vow he needed? Nonetheless, despite my disgust at this old and weak-willed man begging and pleading, I made an oath to protect my future king and his kingdoms.”

Silence descended over the king’s chambers, a pin drop could have been heard.

#daemyra #team black #daemon x rhaenyra #fuck the greens #queen rhaenyra targaryen #fix it fanfiction #anti team green #daemon defense squad #prince daemon targaryen #patreon #house of the dragon #world of westeros #blacks vs greens

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buthigor · 2 years

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(HBO)

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alba-targaryen · 1 year

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Blacks vs Greens conflict is not about feminism vs patriarchy (though women would fare better under Rhaenyra's rule simply because everyone would), not about "the king's word is law" vs "tradition is law" (though it's close) and not even about good vs bad (though it's very close).

It's about "oath keeping" vs "oath breaking", " honor" vs "opportunism". Oaths are a big thing in ASOIAF, and F&B is setting some background for the main series. In the main books, we are given POVs and nuances: the oaths are rigid, life is complicated, and people sometimes have to make complicated choices, gallant knights could be monsters, and the lofty moral standards could be better upheld by the most unlikely knights (like Brienne or Duncan).

F&B, though, in its Dance chapters is showing us much simpler, "default" picture of Westeros: "you keep to your word - you are good guy", "you break you word when it suits you - you can't be trusted at all". (And trust is hell of important thing if families somehow manage to live for thousands years with the same surnames in the same location.)

"True knights" topic is kinda still there though. The Reach is supposed to be the cradle of knighthood and Faith (note how quiet High Septon is during the whole Dance, btw), but somehow the Reach Greens are the worst. Myles Hightower steals from the treasury, Jon Roxton rapes Lady Sharis Footly and kills her husband, Unwin Peake stabs his own ally Lord Bourney in the eye right in the middle of the council meeting and (very likely) kills Jaehaera later. Tumbleton and Bitterbridge don't really need commenting.

#fire and blood #dance of the dragons #asoiaf meta #blacks vs greens #team black #targaryens #book!greens #it's all in the books #sorry not sorry

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hotcupofdragons · 2 years

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Milly Alcock and Emily Carey performed their roles as young Rhaenyra and Alicent WONDERFULLY! I think they definitely deserve a round of applause for their performance. I’m excited to see what Emma D’Arcy and Olivia Cooke bring to the table. The episode 6 preview already looks badass and I cannot wait to see how they perform compared to their younger counterparts!

#house of the dragon #asoiaf #episode 6 #emma darcy #olivia cooke #game of thrones #appreciation #fire and blood #blacks vs greens #team blacks #team rhaenyra #the princess and the queen #rhaenyra targaryen #alicent hightower #the dance of dragons

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mesillusionssousecstasy · 2 years

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House of the Dragon 1x08: Again.

#hotd #house of the dragon #hotd 1x08 #hotd thoughts #blacks vs greens #battle

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alex-iltempo · 1 year

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I just want to remind everybody, that it was Otto Hightower who recommended to Viserys to name Rhaenyra his heir( only to be able to say later that people will never accept a woman as the ruler; and did his moves previously to compromise Daemon to do that) ...and then he sends his own daughter to seduce the king, arranges their marriage, so she could produce a male successor (so he can tell his daughter that Rhaenyra will kill her children, so Alicent have no other option only to prepare for a fight)

So it was his plan all along and all that bullsh*t that he truly cares about the kingdom and wants what is the best....

Well, duh! for himself!

But, it doesn't change the fact that Alicent choose to bring him back when she could be free of him

Or that she's not the best mother, especially to her firstborn whom she raised in hate and pressure

She so hard tries to hold on to the illusion that Viserys names Aegon before his death and totally ignores even her own knowledge of her son's character and ways. Is she really convinced that her oldest is better choice for poor unfortunate people of Seven Kingdoms?

And you can say that she surrounded by a lot of awful people, but it is She who choose to leave them by her side:

Larys, lover of burning houses to the ground with people inside with help of his tongueless team, and she's involved in his fetish stuff after all of her righteousness hypocrite bullsh*t

and Criston Cole who seems getting last stage of Tourette's syndrome every time there's a talk about Rhaenyra for the last 20 years (get tf over it, dude!) and pours out his hate on children (really knightly). And he's now focusing his affection on Alicent, but if you analyze his behaviour from the start he has a psychology of a stalker really with his fixations

And also, isn't anybody bothered by the fact that it's his second (as far as we've seen) public murder of high lord commited with no excusable reason that remains unpunished but rather rewarded

Props to her for not wanting to kill Rhaenyra on the council, but other than that she did a lot of sh*t... So I still see her as a Cersei but more stupid and self-righteous with a little more conscience (yet)...maybe she's not quite there yet, but she goes that derection

They try to make her likable, but if you see what crimes she's allowed to happen by someone else's hands when it benefits her and be over judgy towards Rhaenyra out of jealousy and envy for so long. Which is what leads to the tragical domino falls. And her tries to make some peace with Rhaenyra at the last moment is also a form of self-deception. She f***ed up her relationship with Rhaenyra, she f***ed up her own children, she f***ed up herself by surrounding herself with murders, freaks and scums. She's pity, but I have no mercy for her, she's already gone too far and after finale she clearly will have to go further

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walled-flwr · 2 years

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I know I've made my peace with Criston Cole's hatred for Rhaenyra but if I see him be anything less than civil to Jace, Luke or Joff, I am going to curse him for a coward!!!

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hamliet · 1 year

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Do you think there is a right side (or a side which grrm favored) in Dance of The Dragons? Writers pushing that nobody is flawless so we should not choose one.

Not a "right" side morally speaking. Both sides do terrible things.

Admittedly, the Blacks have descendants while the Greens die out. (Besides maybe Aemond.) But, is this really a sign of being "right?" Or is that, itself, dependent on other factors, like history being written by the victors? That's a worthy conversation to have.

The tl;dr is that I think "who is right" misses the point of the story and isn't the most thematically rich conversation to have. It's like reading Hamlet or Othello through the lens of morality, when it's really more about individual tragedy in broken worlds. Instead, I think it's more a conversation about how love isn't always victory, but it's all we have.

I will say that I do think the text is pretty clear that Rhaenyra is the tragic protagonist, while Alicent is her tragic antagonist. An antagonist, however, is not the same as a villain, and Alicent isn't one. There's only one real villainous character, and that's Criston Cole, who is every bit the incel in the book that he is in the show.

The reason I say this is because, well, the Greens start the war by ignoring Viserys' will--and it isn't just a misunderstanding in the book. Of course, Viserys wasn't a great king and there were plenty of other factors involved in setting up the war. Still, the Greens ultimately make the move to disinherit Rhaenyra, which makes them the antagonists; there would have been no war without this. Rhaenyra is an antagonist to the Greens, but the book is framed as a history of Targaryens, and all Targaryen ruling descendants are from Rhaenyra and Daemon. Plus... the Greens made the first move. So, they are undoubtedly the antagonists.

However, that doesn't mean it's simplified to "Greens wrong Blacks right." It's a tragedy. There were factors leading up to that "first move" of course, so... did they really make the first move? Just because they're the ones who made the war inevitable--wasn't it arguably inevitable before? Was that truly the first move, just because the book writes the tragedy hinging on that decision?

I'd actually argue the book invites us to question and wrestle with the framings and bias of the writer (it's written as a history, after all.) It also invites conversation about sexism and precedent and the greater good vs. the individual, and of course, ye olde duty vs love. As I've said in my rereadings of ASOIAF, Martin argues they aren't inherently opposites. Is the real villain the individuals, or the institutions that they are a product of? To what degree can we even fight those institutions?

All of these, I think, are far more interesting questions than who is right and who is wrong.

#ask hamliet #fire & blood #fire & blood meta #hotd #house of the dragon #blacks vs greens #asoiaf

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muadweeb · 2 years

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yeah this is killing me

#rhaenyra targaryen #arya stark #house targaryen #house stark #jeyne poole #hotd #got #asoiaf #fire and blood #valyrianscrolls #dance of the dragons #blacks vs greens

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rinislove-rinislife · 1 year

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I think my Pinterest feed is trying to tell me something

#house of the dragon #aemond targaryen #hotd #aemond one eye #house targaryen #house hightower #team green #i think my thirst for aemond is showing #game of thrones #got #blacks vs greens

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