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imthepunchlord · 4 months

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If AtLA did get that season 4 the writers wanted, I kinda wonder if they would've revealed the origins of the Avatar and what they would've done; as LoK's take on the spirits and the origins of the Avatar and bending felt disconnected from what AtLA previously set up (at least for me).

As I never got the original show's answer, it led to me pondering it and I had a thought I felt makes more sense.

Based on AtLA and how spirits were, I thought that the Avatar originally started as a powerful spirit that was tied to nature, and had a fondness for humanity and how they connected to nature, strong enough that they developed bending. And similar to La and Tui, they mortalized themselves in human form to be amongst other humans, only they had the unique ability to bend all four elements.

And between being a powerful spirit that's tied to people and the four elements, and the devotion to be there for people, the Avatar Cycle just came to be upon the first death and the first birth, this spirit always becoming reborn in a new elemental nation, to grow up amongst the people it naturally cared for, having a new life to live, to have new experiences, and forming new friendships while also finding old friendships that will last lifetimes. And given the spiritual origins, can also work off the unique role the Avatar has between the spirit realm and the material realm.

I feel this thought makes more sense for the origins of Avatar and working more off AtLA's set up of spirits and the origins of bending.

And while I would vote the actual spirit be left a mystery, IF it had to be specified on what it was, I probably would've voted they were a lion turtle. Like, even in AtLA, they're set up as incredibly mystical and spiritual, and able to manipulate energy itself, and I think the creators even had the idea that people used to live on their backs before LoK confirmed it, confirming they did have a close connection to people.

Everything about them is kinda set up to be like, a precursor to the Avatar. Mindful, it's not a requirement, but that could be a potential reason why the lion turtle arose to help Aang in his time of need, how they sensed Aang was lost and in need of guidance and advise, the Avatar potentially was the soul of a lion turtle, and playing off the lion aspect, they are sociable and work as a team.

It's not a stretch to think a spirit tied to lions are open to helping another.

Either way, this is a thought I wanted to share as an alternative to LoK's answer for the Avatar origins as I just wasn't all that crazy about it.

#avatar the last airbender #atla #avatar cycle #lion turtle #I did see on the wiki that apparently they're animals #but I'm not sure about that classification #cause I remember even spirits referred to them as Ancient Ones #which suggest they're older than most spirits #and everything about them at least in terms of AtLA felt like they were a spirit #anyway thank you for coming to my ted talks

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tossawary · 2 days

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I still think that the ending of "Avatar: The Last Airbender" was poorly foreshadowed, specifically the lion turtles and the energy-bending. (Not Aang not killing Ozai! I like that part! It suits the themes, it suits the characters! That part is fine. I am glad that the last airbender found a way forward that respected his people and beliefs.)

Like, I saw ATLA when it was originally airing and I thought these things kind of "came out of nowhere" at the time. I have heard the arguments to the contrary over the years and I have never really been persuaded by them, while at the same time personally agreeing that the lion turtles and the energy-bending absolutely do fit the world and lore! They are fitting elements! They work! I like this ending at the same time that, in my personal opinion, I think it was poorly established.

I think that the story BEGINS to establish lion turtles and energy-bending well enough. We meet both many other spirit beings and bending-capable animals earlier on, including the Moon and Ocean Spirits who apparently gave the world water-bending. S2 introduces Ty Lee's chi-blocking techniques and Guru Pathik teaching Aang about chakras. There are also a handful of lion turtle easter eggs in the background of some episodes, the most prominent perhaps being on a scroll in Wan Shi Tong's library.

But the story then jumps from these various establishing elements all the way to "lion turtles are real and not extinct and telepathic and can also energy-bend and Aang has suddenly mastered this new art well enough to take someone else's bending away permanently, and these relatively new elements are going to resolve the main conflict of the show". It feels like "1+1=3" to me. I think that last jump in the story is too big. Like, we're REALLY close, but I personally needed another 1 in there somewhere to bridge that final gap and get to that 3.

(Includes some fic ideas / suggestions on how to maybe add to strengthen the foreshadowing under the cut.)

The fact that a lot of people, especially more casual viewers, were really confused by the way all of these elements suddenly came together at the end says to me that, no, the foreshadowing that WAS done (there WAS foreshadowing, I cannot rightfully say that it all came completely out of "nowhere", but it) was not good enough. Or maybe I should compare it to someone presenting me with all of the necessary ingredients for a cake and then telling me that it IS cake? Yes, all of the right ingredients are HERE, I agree, this COULD be a really great cake, but... you still have to mix it all together in a bowl and then put it in the oven to bake to get that specific cake. It's not quite cooked yet.

(Okay, wow, that sounds kind of mean. Maybe I should compare it more to a missing stair? We have MOST of the staircase, I just need one last step to get to the Deus Ex Machina at the top. To be clear: I don't think a "Deus Ex Machina" is inherently bad. I often like them a lot. I just wanted a little more foreshadowing than the stuff that is already there.)

In storytelling, there's this technique casually called "The Rule of Three". (And yes, of course, rules were made to be bent or broken depending on what story you're trying to tell, but usually, these rules exist because they are effective.) This rule is also sometimes known as "Introduction, Pattern, and Payoff". (It has other names, but that's how I remember it.)

Very loosely, this rule states that an important element of the story must appear at least three times. 1. It must be introduced / established in the world. 2. It must appear again to remind the audience that it exists / and establish a pattern such that the audience begins to expect it to appear again later. (And is hopefully excited for it.) 3. Payoff. The element returns in an important way, probably to resolve part of the plot. The previous two appearances have acted as foreshadowing for this ending.

There's also a "Rule of Two" version of this general storytelling technique. Like, "If this special crystal can zap the bad guy and save the day, we have to have shown or at least told the audience that it can do that BEFORE the big final fight scene."

In regards to ATLA, no, I don't think that a scroll in a library or a statue in the background of some scene served as adequate introduction and reminder for the existence of lion turtles, so it didn't necessarily feel like a payoff for me that they solved the main conflict. (It's the "solved the main conflict" that's most of the issue for me. If the lion turtles had just appeared in another episode as a random cool thing like those sea monsters by Kyoshi Island, I would not have cared.)

I actually think that the establishment of other spirits like the Moon Spirit and bending-capable animals like sky bison and dragons can serve as a decent enough "Step 1) Introduction". Though this does not establish that lion turtles specifically exist, we have established that powerful creatures similar to lion turtles exist. But I still needed a solid "Step 2) Pattern / Reminder" that would have established that lion turtles specifically exist and are important BEFORE one shows up at the end like that.

I think that there's at least one episode somewhere in Book 1 or Book 2 that could have been cut in favor of an episode where the Gaang meets and rescues a young lion turtle baby or something.

Maybe Guru Pathik could have learned his ways FROM a lion turtle? Aang could have gone to an isolated village somewhere (with more brown people besides just Guru Pathik?) where people are living in harmony with a lion turtle, or maybe even on the back of a lion turtle! That would be cool!

Concept: Aang encounters Guru Pathik living alone on the back of a lion turtle which doesn't talk to people anymore (Aang swims down to look at its face and it doesn't even look at him), because its kind have been hunted nearly to extinction and it's tired of violence. Guru Pathik learned his ways from his old teacher, who learned from his old teacher, all the way up the teaching lineage from a person who once learned from the lion turtle itself before it gave up on the world. Guru Pathik tends to this nearly empty temple on the back of a silent lion turtle who ignores him, because he will not forsake his teachings even when the world seems uninterested in hearing them and the old lion turtle seems like it could die any day now. The people in the fishing village on the shore think that Guru Pathik is crazy and most of them don't even believe that the floating island really is a lion turtle, it's just weird geography.

Guru Pathik could also have chi-blocking abilities! We could see him demonstrate them in self-defense! He could teach a few chi-blocking moves to Aang, who could later go on to use them occasionally in Book 3, and it would have been really cool to see Aang exploring non-bending skills. We don't need Guru Pathik to explicitly name energy-bending here, but I would like to connect him just a touch more strongly to chi-blocking. Like, he IS connected already by helping Aang clear chakras, which is kind of like a reverse of chi-blocking, but it would be nice to establish Guru Pathik as somewhat capable of the opposite but perhaps not liking to use the skill.

Aang really vibes with this dying culture of pacifists, but he still has to leave Guru Pathik before he can finish the training. Later on, he can encounter Guru Pathik and the silent lion turtle again, and he can confess to them how desperately he doesn't want to have to kill anyone, no matter what his past lives say. He just wants to STOP the violence and restore balance to the world without sacrificing himself. And THEN the lion turtle could wake up and gift him with energy-bending.

Or something like that! The foreshadowing doesn't have to be THAT heavy-handed, but SOME brief appearance by an actual lion turtle would have served as a better "Step 2) Pattern" to me.

Things like chi-blocking, chakras, water-bending healing, water-benders losing their bending when the Moon Spirit was killed, and even Zuko's spiritual turmoil serve as a good "Step 1) Introduction" to the concept of energy-bending to me. The ingredients are THERE. But again, I would have liked some clearer "Step 2) Pattern" that had actually baked the cake in regards to this being a skill Aang had specifically.

The above episode concept with Guru Pathik on the back of a lion turtle could have worked as a "Step 2) Pattern / Reminder" for energy-bending.

ANOTHER option would be to have Aang temporarily lose his bending at the beginning of Book 3, after Katara resurrects him with that special spirit water after Azula killed him at the end of Book 2.

I think Aang losing his bending for at least 3-4 episodes would have been really good for him / the show. So much of Aang's identity is tied up at this point in being the Avatar and the responsibilities of being the Avatar. Losing his bending, especially his AIR-BENDING, and his connection to the spirit world and his past lives would send him into a personal crisis. The Gaang could worry over whether or not a new Avatar has somehow been born or if the Avatar powers are gone forever. The characters could confront the fact that perhaps they've been relying too much on Aang as the Avatar and what they'll do now without the Avatar.

Also, it would be really funny if Aang woke up and picked up his glider to jump off that boat, then just fell into the ocean, and Katara needed to fish him out. (Which would then transition into the dramatic revelation that he has lost his bending!!!)

Katara could use her healing abilities to tell Aang that what's happened to him feels a lot like Ty Lee's chi-blocking. Katara would then probably try to emphasize with Aang, who gets angry with her and says she has no idea what this feels like! Katara could then have a really good intimate scene with Aang over how scary it was when the Moon Spirit was killed, what it physically felt like to lose that spiritual connection, and how scared she was even afterwards about what it would have been like to permanently lose that connection to her people and her culture. Aang then apologizes to Katara and they resolve to find his bending again.

Aang then goes on some spiritual journey with his friends to reconnect with his bending and his past lives as the Avatar. Probably some partially internal spiritual journey with Guru Pathik's teachings. Katara and Toph could both talk about what bending means to them personally as different people, and also what it feels like to them as they interact with the elements of the world around them.

Aang could have some cool fight scenes where he dodges some random thugs using all of his bending skills (martial arts) without the actual bending, air-bending techniques, water-bending techniques, and earth-bending techniques, and then finally some chi-blocking techniques that Guru Pathik showed him. There could be some scene where Aang saves a kid from these random thugs and realizes that he can still do good in the world even if he's not the Avatar! Even if he's not a bender anymore!

There could also be some REALLY funny scenes of Aang trying to get Appa and Momo to teach him how to reconnect with his air-bending. Aang mimicking their movements and so on. (Sokka: "Is that... working so far, buddy?" Aang: "NO! They're terrible teachers!!!" Cue sad Appa bleating and offended Momo chittering.)

You could even do it in a cycle of sorts, where Aang reconnects with his air-bending first using Guru Pathik's teachings and his friends' help. (He is OVERJOYED.) And then Aang slowly regains water-bending and earth-bending over the next few episodes, culminating in him having to face his fears learning fire-bending again. I think you could accomplish this storyline by squeezing it into about 3-4 episodes, or else starting off with losing then regaining air-bending plus the Avatar state in the first 2 episodes of the season and then threading relearning the other elements in the background through later episodes.

ANOTHER option where Aang temporarily loses his bending is after the eclipse, because he has a spiritual crisis over the fact that he was resolved to kill someone and he really doesn't want to do that. I don't like this option so much because it feels a little too late in the season compared to kicking off Book 3 with the drama of Aang losing his bending(!!!), but it's an option.

See, if Aang temporarily loses his bending and has to find it again somehow, then the show could establish what this kind "energy-bending" and spiritual manipulation within a person looks like. If Aang has had to get his bending BACK, then it would better establish Aang then using this ability he has now practiced on himself to take bending away from another person. It's a pleasantly surprising twist that Aang figures out how to reverse a previously established energy-bending technique and successfully uses it against Ozai.

And then the ending, though arguably still in the realm of a Deus Ex Machina (which is cool), would feel more like "Step 3) Payoff" instead of "What just happened?"

Anyway! This post became way longer than originally intended! I hope this has made it clear that I like both the lion turtles and energy-bending as concepts. I think there are many elements in the show that begin to introduce lion turtles and energy-bending as Aang uses it as things that COULD exist. I just think that the show needed some kind of additional baking step in the middle to establish a pattern and use those ingredients to foreshadow that specific "an ancient lion turtle teaches Aang energy-bending" ending.

#tossawary atla #fic ideas #long post #aang #guru pathik #lion turtles #spoilers

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endlingmusings · 11 months

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Within an antique “book of views” of the Bronx Zoo, one can see the lion house as it appeared in 1909, along with a portrait of “Sultan”, one of the zoo’s Barbary lion. [ x ]

#Barbary lion #Atlas lion #Mammal #EX #EW #Photo #Live specimen #Captive #Upload

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hood-ex · 1 year

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Never watched ATLA until recently but always heard people hyping up Zuko as an amazing character, and after watching only season 1 so far, I can confirm that he might be my fav, which is bizarre for me because I don't think I've ever liked an antagonist over the main cast of heroes before.

This man got blown up, risked drowning/hypothermia to get to Aang before the other fire benders, dragged Aang through a blizzard, got crunched by a water bender, and then tried to save the asshole who destroyed the moon despite said asshole being the one responsible for blowing him up. And then after all that, Iroh mentioned that he was surprised Zuko wasn't going after the Avatar, and Zuko was just like, "I'm tired 🙁." And that response right there sealed the deal for me. Like yeah my guy. You lie down and have a little siesta.

#when all those seal lion thingies were making noise and he was just like ''be quiet!'' and they all shut up immediately alskdja #pls he's so bossy #ATLA

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vldfix · 4 months

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she sent me her location tf is this

#voltron #voltronlegendarydefenders #keith voltron #lance voltron #allura voltron #hunk voltron #pidge voltron #coran voltron #shiro voltron #atlas voltron #castle of lions #the garrison #atlas igf #blue lion

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starlight-bread-blog · 3 months

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The Good & the Bad: On Aang (Not) Killing the Fire Lord

I recived this asks forever ago, trurly sorry anon, but I'll keep my apologises for the end. I'd love to answer that!

If you're asking me, this is way better than """killing him""". Case closed.

Getting this cleared up: The show didn't say that Aang is morally superior for this. It was solely about staying true to himself. Not a moral high ground.

So when I hear people say it's problematic because it implies that sparing imperialistic dictators has some intrinsic goodness to it, (Ahem-Lily Orchard), I just can't agree. It was never about universal ethics, it was about Aang's culture and values.

Why Is This a Good Thing?

Aang loves his culture, and takes a lot of pride in it and its values. (See: in The Southern Raiders his first go-to to convince Katara to spare Yon Rah is his culture, rather than what such act would do Katara herself). He would have been ashamed if he had broken them. But right now they clash with his Avatar duties, with god-knows how many lives at stake. He needs to let go of his pride & shame, and become humble.

Just like Zuko humbling himself to the GAang before they accept him, or Sokka humbling himself to the Kyoshi warriors and Master Piandao, Aang could only speak to the the lion turtle after he'd given up, after he was humbled.

Even beyond Aang, it enhances the show's themes at large. A theme in A:TLA is paving your own path, and that you can do what you want despite the pressure. Your true destiny will come, you might be surprised by it, but it's yours and you're free to carve it.

You just have to keep going, to continue to do the right thing, and your destiny will find you. Things have a way of working out in the end, eventually.

Sparing Ozai serves the theme, thus the show overall. Everyone told him it's his destiny to kill the Fire Lord and end the war. But he didn't agree, paving his own path, his own destiny, and all was well. The pieces fell in their place.

It is s amplified by the fact that if you read between the lines, he actually did follow all the previous Avatars' wisdom besides Yangchen's.

Aang knew what he wanted from the start. He isn't going to kill the Fire Lord. People (rightfully) tried to pressure him, but in the end, he stuck to his decision.

Justice was served. Aang took his bending away and put him to rot in prison for the rest of his life. There's more than one way to execute justice.

"... and the destiny of the world". That's exactly what Aang did. He followed his own path (staying true to himself) while saving the world (ending Ozai regime).

So that leaves us with Yangchen's advice. The one he didn't follow:

This opens another layer to this. Why doesn't Aang take the advice of a fellow Air Nomad? The one he should relate to the most? Because despite both being Avatars and Airbenders, Aang is the last. They're not the same. Yangchen is speaking from a place of privilege. She can carry the weight of the Avatar and not worry about the Air Nomads. Notice the wording: "spiritual needs". But it's deeper than that. In her time, they were there, they'll preserve their culture and values. Aang doesn't have that.

He's Avatar: The Last Airbender. He has both weights to carry. The decision to spare the Fire Lord, while protecting the rest of the world, is embedded in the show's title.

There's also something so incredibly powerful in Ozai being defeated specifically with Air Nomad values. A 100 years ago, during Sozin's Comet, the Fire Nation started the war by genociding them. When it comes back, the Avatar, the last Air Nomad, ends the war and stops the next genocide while preserving their values. The Fire Nation isn't going to push him to taint (one of) the last living aspacts of the Air Nomads, and Aang is shouting it – in the very same day the disaster occurred.

(Additionally I view this as a land mark of his character development since Siege of the North. He used spirit powers for murder, now he's using them for mercy).

(A:TLA is also a show made with kids in mind. They may not be able to make Aang kill Ozai. He got his bending stolen and sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. That's a more than serviceable punishment for a show aimed at kids).

(Ps: If Ozai had died Zuko would never have found out where his mother is).

The concept is fantastic. Nothing wrong there. But now, it's time for the critisism.

What's the problem then?

Despite looking in internet forums, it's entirely possible that I missed some things. With that being said, the Lion Turtles could have been foreshadowed better. As I stated, I don't mind it. But as far as I recall, it was foreshadowed once in The Library, and that's it. (Edit: It's also foreshadowed in Sokka's Master and The Beach, but the point still stands).

The Lion Turtle is a twist, it subverted expectations, but that doesn't mean it has to be a deus ex machina. That's what foreshadowing is for. It's the literary device to making a plot twist feel believable. The result is many fans, including me, feeling as though it came out of no where, even though it didn't.

Overall, I love that Aang spared Ozai. It ties into the themes of the show and Aang's role as the last airbender. It makes perfect sense, it's rather beautiful. However, I do wish the foreshadowing was better.

And for Anon, to apologize for the wait, I dedicate you this meme:

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