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fantasy-the-final-frontier · 9 months

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I’m on my (third?) watch of Agents of Shield, currently on 2x08, The Things We Bury. And it just occurred to me how good the parallel stories are in this episode in particular, all centering around the title.

(This breakdown got a lot more in-depth than I was expecting, so I’m putting the rest under a cut)

Storyline 1: the backstory of Daniel Whitehall. Shortly after finding a person (Jiaying) who can survive contact with the Obelisk, Whitehall and his men are captured by the Allied forces (as seen in 2x01). After being interrogated by Peggy Carter, Whitehall is consigned to a Shield prison for life. But that is not his end - HYDRA members release him from prison decades later, where he can continue his research on the Obelisk, experiment on Jiaying, and work his way to the position he holds in HYDRA in the modern day.

Whitehall: We could learn so much together.

Peggy: Instead we’ll forget. Forget you, forget your work. When I leave no one else will come. No one to hear your stories, study your deadly artifacts. You’ll be buried.

Whitehall: I seriously doubt that. Nothing stays buried forever.

Storyline 2: Grant Ward kidnaps his older brother Christian to have an emotional confrontation about their abusive past. They go to the site of the well (from episode 1x08), where Grant forces Christian to unearth it. The entire time, the brothers accuse each other of gaslighting and manipulation, blaming the other for the events of that day. Once the well is revealed, Grant threatens Christian until his brother confesses to forcing Grant during the incident at the well. The storyline ends with a news story reporting the deaths of Christian and his parents.

Christian: The well. You still blame me for the well. We both know that it was you who nearly killed Thomas down there.

Grant: Do you sleep better telling yourself that?

Christian: You know, I don’t know what crazy lies that you have built up all these years, but the well doesn’t even exist anymore. It’s gone. Mom and Dad buried it.

Grant: (pause) Oh, no. They just covered it up.

Storyline 3: the search for the alien city. Taking inspiration from Fury, Coulson decides to one-up HYDRA by putting in place a series of dominoes that will gain him access to a satellite. This allows the team to locate the alien city,

Coulson: We may actually have a shot at finding the city.

Skye: Are you sure it’s something you wanna dig up?

Coulson: If we don’t, HYDRA will. We need to get there first.

I just love the juxtaposition between the three storylines! From figurative digging into Bakshi and archived Shield files in storyline 1, to literal digging in storyline 2, to the city in storyline 3 being underground, all are about the things that get buried (hence the title) but not destroyed. Usually “bury” implies a final ending, as in burying a body, but this episode shows that buried is not the same as forgotten.

Daniel Whitehall is able to gain a new life and new identity. The well is unearthed and the Ward brothers’ past is laid bare. The alien city, which was lost for thousands of years, is discovered. And to dig more into storyline 1, Whitehall’s background in 2x08 teases parts of Skye’s background - more past which was buried (redacted by Shield) that is now being revealed. Jiaying’s barely-living body is dumped in a ditch in lieu of a burial, and in 2B we learn she was nursed back to health. The buried live once more.

Season 2A is all about the past coming back in full force to influence the present, and this episode is chock-full of that theme. More specifically, parts of the past that were supposed to be hidden or forgotten, parts which are demanding themselves to be known again.

This right here is the Good Shit™️, aka my favorite part of this show, and I’m so fucking pumped!

#agents of shield #aos meta #agents of shield season 2 #the things we bury #god I love season 2 so much #there are several different ongoing storylines that are developed and paced wonderfully #and episodes like this highlight the themes between them #there’s so much surprising depth to this show!!!

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moonlayl · 1 year

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I’ll say it:

despite all its flaws, “once upon a time” did a really good job showing us Emma’s childhood and how it impacted her decisions even as an adult, and her relationships with others.

The show also did a good job having her reunite with her parents and how all characters involved dealt with their complex and confusing emotions.

it’s the kind of writing I wish Daisy had been given on agents of shield.

I wish we’d gotten flashback of her childhood. I wish she’d gotten to spend more time with Jiaying and Cal. I wish the show itself had included them in future seasons.

Either by not killing Jiaying, and having her be there in afterlife (Daisy having a safe space she could go to, a wise person she can trust or an ally she can rely on, especially with the events of upcoming seasons).

Or by having Daisy go to Cal, despite his erased memories, every now and then.

So much more could’ve been done with Daisy’s story relating to her life as an orphan and her eventually finding her parents, and while I understand the whole point of it was for Daisy to become Daisy Johnson, Quake, and Agent of Shield, I still feel as though there was a lot of wasted potential.

#aos #aos meta #daisy johnson #ouat #emma swan #jiaying #cal johnson #aos s2 #agents of shield #afterlife #layl.text

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gingerpeachtea · 10 months

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been thinking about aos season seven a lot today and. i don’t know if i think that may’s weird empathy powers storyline in s7 is inherently misogynistic or not but i Do know that they never wouldve done that shit with a male character

#aos meta #melinda may #if this causes a devil-complex-scale fandom-wide discourse war then um. no it doesnt. everyone be really niceys or else #agents of shield #c speaks

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ryder616 · 2 years

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You know, when Rosalind says "for every Daisy Johnson there's a Lash" I feel very offended on Daisy's behalf (shocking, I know 🤭).

First, there's only one Daisy Johnson, thank you very much. Nobody's quite like her, Roz. Ask Coulson, he agrees with me 😉

There's also only one Lash, whose power was designed to counteract Hive, another unique individual (well, we can probably argue about the "individual" part but nvm), who had been exiled by Inhumans and humans together and only became relevant again because Hydra - humans! - are evil mofos and a stupid death cult.

Most Inhumans just wanted to be left alone, hidden from people who are eager to cut them to pieces for their powers or stuff them in a box for however long until they can erase their identity. Or people who just want them dead. Or rogue spy agencies with an indexing fetish and a fundamental disregard for civil liberties (😒).

But nooo. For Rosalind, and even too often for SHIELD, the problem starts with Inhumans, not the humans who are constantly at their heels for personal gain, hate, fear or a questionable interpretation of the greater good.

So, in the middle of a paranoid campaign against Inhumans, stirred by the true monsters of the story - Gideon Malick is pulling all the ATCU strings to collect Inhumans for Hive's future army - Daisy, who's already been a victim of those monsters and general prejudice more than once (and will be so again several more times) has to be lectured by the woman duped by Hydra to do its bidding, while chaperoning her around as the token good Inhuman.

The unfairness of it all.

And look. Nobody ever said "for every Melinda May there's a Grant Ward", did they, cause that would be stupid, wouldn't it?

Well.

#agents of shield #daisy johnson #rosalind price #who i like a lot btw #but also shut up roz #duality!#aos 3x07 #aos season 3 #random aos #my meta #aos meta

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astrid-goes-for-a-spin · 12 days

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do you know something I think about all the time. What exactly does LMD Coulson remember? They say he has all of Coulson's memories but the last time Coulson had a brain scan would have been late s4. Meaning LMD Coulson wouldn't remember anything that happened in season 5, right? Except he clearly does know what happened; how does this work? I assume they fed him facts about it but. What does he think about this? What does he feel about not remembering his deal and his death? Considering all the other ruminating he does in s7 I wish they'd put some of this in, but I suspect the writers just forgot

#phil coulson #aos #aos meta #lmd coulson #aos s7 #aos season 7

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tremorsmackenzie · 10 months

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one of the best things about agents of shield is that it does all of the tropes, way over the top trauma, character revivals, alternate reality plots, evil versions of characters, betrayals, mind control, time travel plots, etc., things which are usually done either way too seriously or as a cheap joke/low effort filler content that sometimes doesnt fit the tone or show it happens in at all.

but it does them properly the way theyre supposed to be, integrating them into its world, and it shows why they are actually popular and that they work if you spend any real effort on them and try to do them justice instead of always playing them as a cliché trope.

yeah, its an interesting storyline to see the goodhearted main character be turned evil against their will and then deal with the fallout. whod have thunk.

and at the same time it manages to not lose the kind of campy feel associated with them, in a really charming way. i dont know if im making sense, i just waited for a really long time for someone to actually do these things right cause they have so much potential, and they usually dont get to explore it beyond very superficial levels.

agents of shield is awesome. fin.

#like its seriously my favourite show #it hits every niche i have #except for queerness #there are just so many storybeats and opportunitys for character development that are completely thrown by the wayside in so many shows #and aos just does them right and is one of the best shows ever as a result #agents of shield #aos meta #tropes are only cheap if you make them

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samanthaswishes · 2 years

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I just saw a post that said Daisy is a terrible character because she has no remorse for her actions... did we watch the same show?

The same post went on to say how all of the female characters in the show (Daisy, May, Bobbi, Elena, and Jemma) are all terrible characters and should not be looked up to while also saying at least W*rd never made himself out to be the good guy. Again, did we watch the same show? Cause all he did was try to justify his actions and put the blame on someone else.

I just don't understand some people. It's like they purposely ignore the important things.

#certain things just hit a nerve sometimes #but saying daisy had no remorse????#carrying so much remorse and guilt while feeling empathy for everyone around her is literally her character #also defending w*rd?#please #daisy johnson #daisy johnson deserves better #i think the specific example they used for daisy was when she shot donnie gil #she did in fact have remorse for it #in the moment she was trained to keep her emotions bottled up and her heartrate down #but after the fact #she hid herself away in the bus because she did in fact feel guilty after her first kill #im sure she had wanted to save donnie but in the moment it wasn't possible and they had to keep jemma's cover #anti grant ward #agents of shield #aos #aos meta

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49thpersona · 3 months

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Hi sorry to bother you but you reblogging my alchemy of souls post immediately made me want to talk about them/watch the series again so thank you!! I had such a great time last year (especially with s1, I agree wholeheartedly that it is stronger also because it shows so many friendships and relationships that are later eclipsed by the more ‘standard’ romance of s2)

Hi!! No, don't worry! If anything, I can be a bother while going around liking/reblogging all of the posts I missed out on :'D I've gotta say I find your posts to be some of the best thought out. It's a joy to read your opinions. So I will definitely still loom around in your notifications haha but I am glad that it actually makes you want to rewatch/talk about them again! I completed the show about a week ago and I still can't let go. I am trying to pin down everything that made me feel let down when watching s2 after all. Especially as s1 absolutely drew me in, and few kdramas have so, involved me in the story, their characters and their relationships. I think it was especially because of the lack of those friendly relationships in s2 and, as you so accurately called it, the 'standard' romance.

Thank you so much for your message!!

#I am going through it. OST on repeat. Tears in my eyes. There are so many thoughts regarding everything that happened during those 2 seasons #just..running around my head #khaotunng #personal #reply #not sure if i should tag is as general aos tag but maybe someone has it blocked as i am spamming the dash lately sooo #aos #aos meta

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blogquantumreality · 8 months

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are you starting agents of shield???

I DID LIKE AGES AGO

But I never got past Season 5-ish and I've just had no desire to go back to it even though OH MY GOD THE WHOLE FRAMEWORK ALTERNATE WORLD THING in season 4 like holy shit that was pretty much THE reason I even started AOS at all, was so I could find out what that shit was all about.

#agents of shield #aos #ask box #aos meta #meta #meta response #this has been in my inbox since 2017 #i stg i am so lazy about some of this stuff

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thatscarletflycatcher · 8 months

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There's something that has been gnawing at me since I saw some comments on the look-how-they-massacred-them poll for Daniel Sousa -with which I didn't want to engage then and there because I really didn't want to pick up a fight with another Daniel fan, there's few enough of us, but also because the argument was very difficult to articulate.

It is difficult to explain how Daniel Sousa is screwed over by Endgame without making it look like either "he deserved Peggy as a prize" or "he was the perfect prize for Peggy", because it all begins by understanding the experience of WWII and the building of the morale of WWII. Something that Markus and McFeely seemed to perfectly understand in Agent Carter, which inclines me to believe it was specific insistence of the Russos, whose concept of narrative and storytelling is at the level of a belligerent and not very bright 4 year old, that gave us that mindblowingly stupid "happy ending" for Cap and Peggy. Or maybe Markus and McFeely are just arcane creatures, at times intelligent and at times really dumb. Anyways.

Point is that both CATFA and Agent Carter understand that for these characters, fighting WWII is a matter of "each doing their bit", of, as Steve put it in The Avengers, to lay on the barbed wire so the one that comes after you can pass on. And in the process of doing that, you have great loses and suffer great grief. The price of war is immense, and for these people the price of war is the price of freedom (yes, that celebrated Steve speech from CATWS is also sharing in that same spirit. It's kind of impressive how until that awful mess of Endgame, the perspective of Steve as a character from movie to movie is one that addresses how some 1940s things are outdated, but how many others are still relevant and inspiring. It is a surprisingly nuanced take on History, that of course the Russo "Cap is an outdated relic that belongs in the past and should stay there" brothers don't seem to have what's needed to grasp).

In that context, the most coherent tone for Steggy is tragedy. Because that is what happened to many, many, many people during the war. You meet, you fall in love fast, because there is no time. And then suddenly the other is gone, never to come back. And all the promises of youth and life and future the other person represented, are gone with them. People who lived through 2020-2022 have some idea of what it is like for projects, opportunities, and years of your life to just vanish. Now you make that five years, eight months, and to mention "just" the British, 1 out every 100 people live in 1939, dead, and over 350.000 permanently disabled. If you were 20 in 1939, your life would be practically on hold till you were 26. It's a whole lot of grief, and an intense grief, that you don't solve the way you solve a random missing connection in a romcom like Serendipity or The Lake House. Doing so is cheapening and bastardizing the grief and trauma of a whole generation of people in different countries.

So, Agent Carter. Here we have a story focused on a group of people, spies, who, in different fronts and with different outcomes, made it through the war and are now facing this new world they are living in, and all the grief of their respective losses. The focus of the story is Peggy, a woman who, like many others, was allowed a wide range of action during the war, and is now subconsiously perceived as a threat by many of her male coworkers. It's a desperate bid to "go back to the way things were before", and her presence is a constant reminder that they can't.

Sousa occupies a very similar position to Peggy's: he's also a reminder that the war happened and that there is no way back, no magic solution, no pretending. And that's why both are ignored, and displaced, and why both struggle to prove themselves in a subconscious way while living by the continued principle that they are doing their bit. That is their lifeline that keeps them sane and working all throughout s1 of Agent Carter.

That's what we mean when we say Peggy and Sousa are equals, and that Sousa is contented with letting her have the spot; not because he's her inferior or her dependant, but because he's her equal -in intelligence, in ideals, in resourcefulness, in loyalty, but also in their relative positions in the power ladder- and does not feel threatened by her because of it.

(It is in this context, btw, that Peggy's rebuke of Daniel's "rescue" of her in the first episode must be understood. Because she was once treated like any other officer/agent of her same rank, she has knee jerk reactions to both being demeaned and being protected. It's also an important theme of that beginning of the series that Peggy needs to learn to let her friends in, and that she needs their help, and that that doesn't make her too weak to protect and defend them.)

But also, in another way, when we talk about Sousa becoming Peggy's husband, it has to do with the sentiment Krezminsky expresses in the series:

The ship of Steggy had sailed and was gone forever since the moment Steve became the legend in the ice and Peggy "Cap's Girl", this embodiment of the ridiculous damsel in distress we hear in the radio drama that plays on one of the episodes: Peggy fell in love with Steve when he was a scrawny, sickly lad, because she loved the man he was inside, but now forever for the world she is just another superficial, weak girl lusting after the handsome godlike rescuer, the picture of the eugenic dream of the übermensch. In Daniel Peggy loves and finds all the same things she found and loved in Steve, but in a different light, because Sousa is a different person, with a different life story, plus something else: they have both gone through war and its loss and grief, and come to the other side in need of rebuilding and finding new meaning in life and hope for the future.

In a world where the Dark, Tall and Handsome Hero of the Six Pack, Alpha Dominance and Endless Stamina reigns supreme, Sousa as a love interest is a remarkable and -sadly- bold statement about the things that truly matter in finding one's life partner.

So I think here is a reasonable point to start talking about Sousa in Agents of SHIELD. Because here's where someone would rationally say "well, but you see, there he's also chosen as a love interest!", and the reasons why context in AoS changes everything are multiple, so let's go there.

But before that, let me make clear that I do wholeheartedly believe the writers of AoS meant to honor Sousa, and sincerely tried to do their best with what they were given. That doesn't change what the end product ended up doing and saying about him.

Like Peggy is the main character of Agent Carter, so Daisy is the main character of Agents of SHIELD. As much as you can say all the team characters are important and get the focus, Daisy is the one which the narrative insists on making the focal point, as the arcs of several seasons hinge on her, and we are expected to sympathize with her first and foremost in any situation in which she is personally involved. But unlike Peggy, Daisy is a superpowered individual. She's more like Steve than Peggy; she's practically a demigod. She is capable of ripping Earth apart with just her hands. Where Peggy and Sousa were equals in the power ladder in-universe, in AoS the distance between Daisy and Sousa is abysmal. That imbalance is the first thing that leads to Sousa being put in the position of Daisy's Boy. The fact that he ends up in space with Daisy's last minute sister who is ALSO an inhuman does not help things.

As a side note, there's something to be said about futuristic prosthetics in AoS and how they interesect with disability. But I'd rather not get into it because it is a thorny subject and I don't feel qualified to speak of it.

In a different way, Daniel being Peggy's love interest in Agent Carter is balanced out by his having a life of his own and many interactions with other characters throughout the series. He pursues his own lines of investigation, he conducts interrogations of his own, he comes up with plans, he teams up with Krezminsky and with Thompson and in s2 he has downright made a life for himself as chief in California with a fiancé and all. There is a clear sense that he exists as a character outside of pining for Peggy.

In AoS, the opposite happens. Part of it is owed to the writers writing themselves into a corner: to take Sousa out of his timeline, they have to do it in such a way that his disappearance is inconspicuous, which means killing him. They do it the best way they can think of, honoring his alertness and intelligence, by making him realize HYDRA is infiltrated in SHIELD decades before anyone else does. But as a consequence, Sousa becomes the man out of time: there's no future for him, because he has died, and unlike Steve, he's not being brought back because he himself is required. They just save him because they take pity on him and the tragedy of his life. So he has no mission and no significant previous connection with anyone on the team. One of the concrete things in which this is evidenced the most is with the switch from being addressed as chief Sousa to Agent Sousa. He was chief, but between that SHIELD and this SHIELD there's not such a connection by which he can claim that title. There's no subordinates to manage. So he's sort of default-called agent without really being a proper agent.

So the writers choose the fish-out-of-water concept for him. Which is far fetched. This guy lived through wwii in a high spy setting where intelligence has knowledge of powerful interstellar aliens. He's most definitely not bewildered by phone cameras, guys. He would quickly adapt... if, again, you know, he was brought back for a mission. But the reality is that from a Doylist POV, he was brought in to be Daisy's love interest, and the only thing he can offer to her, in this huge power imbalance I have pointed out, is chivalrous manners and quaint WWII style references like when he tells her "Agent Johnson, we are going home"; both can be very charming to a modern woman, but they are things that highlight the cultural and psychological distances that separate them, and make it glaringly obvious that they have barely anything in common.

The series tries desperately to give them common ground in the time-loop episode, with this idea that Daisy is like Peggy because she sacrifices herself for others and to protect others all the time. Which is laughable because, again, in Daisy's condition of beloved main character that embodies the tortured, quasi byronic heroine that we understand to be the hallmark of about one half of the contemporary superhero type, the narrative and the characters in it bend all sorts of ways to accommodate her, not the other way around. Peggy's type is different because it is rooted in that WWII morale/frame I was talking about at the beginning of the post.

As a consequence of all of this, Sousa barely interacts with anyone that isn't Daisy (he has of personal scenes, what? one or two with Coulson, the scene where Jemma gives him a new prosthetic, and then he's given an idea to give to Mac in the finale. I don't remember any other non-Daisy ones), has no unique role to fulfill in the mission (specially because so much of the plan is entwined in Fitz and Jemma's rescue plan that was NOT counting with Sousa) and no personal goal to achieve, which weakens his standing as a character outside the romance plot, and when it comes to the romance plot, he has nothing in common with Daisy, and he brings nothing to the partnership other than... narratively forced love, and chivalrousness.

In the end, Daniel, who was a character and a person of relevance in Agent Carter, is nerfed and turned into a prop for the rushed happily ever after of the main character of AoS. And that, in my books, is being screwed over. That's what makes his becoming Peggy's husband and building a life and a future with her a much better and more preferable outcome for Daniel; he gets to build a life of meaning by his own significant work and significant connections, in his own time and place, with a wife who is his equal and with other people that have lived through the same collective experiences of trauma and grief he did.

#Daniel Sousa #Agent Carter #AoS #meta #peggysous

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anewstartrekfan · 4 months

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Reading an old Star Trek book and to my surprise Jim Kirk has always had Daddy issues

So the only Star Trek book I’ve read was the one explaining how the tribbles episode was made and the aftermath, so trying to read Enterprise (1986) with some basic knowledge of trek post 2009 is fascinating. Cuz you see where the breadcrumbs of some of the characterization and even backstory come from.

In chapter 2, Sam Kirk and Kirk’s mom show up to Kirk’s ceremony where he takes command of the enterprise. They talk about George Kirk Sr. being in Starfleet, (he’s dead here too) something that I don’t think was in any of the episodes or movies. And how he was always distant and away. And they’re clearly going for some parallels/dramatic irony with the Wrath of Khan when it comes to Kirk not believing he could’ve developed a relationship with his father as an adult. And it plays into the tragic aspect I love about Kirk.

Upon reflection he’s happy that Carol rejected him (he proposed to her in chapter 1) because he doesn’t want to leave anyone behind while on the job, only returning for sparse visits the way his father did. But at the same time, Jim craves companionship. And he can’t get it in his current job because as captain, it is not ethical for him to date anyone else on the Enterprise.

Anyway the long and short is if we take this book into account, Kirk has always had daddy issues. It’s just in TOS EU it was abandonment issues whereas in 2009 it was dad sacrificed himself so high expectations issues.

The little details like the mom’s name getting carried over into the aos movies are a good touch, but then seeing George Kirk being a Starfleet officer actually get incorporated into the 2009 movie as an important plot point, and then also using his absence in Kirk’s life but just in a different way as part of Kirk’s backstory is so cool to me.

A difference though is unlike fanfic tropes, Winona is actually a good mom and wants Jim to succeed in his career where his father failed in his Starfleet career. Unfortunately though Jim appears to be falling into the same pitfalls. As in lack of communication and unwillingness to play workplace politics.

That last burn from Winona tho… like damn girl I felt that.

Another thing I want to backtrack to, Sam Kirk. Sam being the alleged chosen child, the one that was supposed to follow in George Kirk’s footsteps but didn’t, and then Jim strolled in and did even more than what Sam was supposed to do, and Sam and George never reconciled. Like dudes this book is almost 40 years old and this stuff was in strange new worlds last year. Tho xenobiology appears to have morphed into xenoanthropology (tho according to the fan wiki he’s still a biologist so idk what the deal is)

For the record Sam’s characterization isn’t remotely the same here. Likely the choice to keep him out of Starfleet all together removed any sort of resentment of Jim potential like he has in SNW. There’s still tension though, as Sam tries to force Jim to confront why he’s reacting like this to his first mission for the enterprise being an escort job for a flying horse.

Shifting gears back to Jim needing to learn how to play workplace politics. The assumed reason for Pike leaving the enterprise. While SNW is doing the whole, Pike knows he won’t fly the enterprise forever and about the disfigurement and is cool with it, I find if fascinating that he’s more, sad about it here and that he got promoted out of the way for pushing too many buttons. It would be a sad ending but I wonder if SNW would incorporate that into its eventual ending. Hell I wonder if that’s what happened to Kirk between TOS and TMP.

Anyway big picture is this book is a fascinating time capsule and it’s fun seeing just how much has stuck around over the years both in fandom and in the franchise itself. Whether or not that’s the book’s doing is questionable but still. Fun to think about.

#star trek #star trek tos #james t kirk #spock #star trek enterprise #Star Trek enterprise 1986 #it’s a fun read #sam kirk #Star Trek meta #Star Trek analysis #star trek strange new worlds #strange new worlds #snw #star trek the original series #Star Trek enterprise the first adventure #Star Trek AOS #star trek alternate original series #Jim Kirk meta

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