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strangertheories · 2 years

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It is my biggest pet peeve when (mostly) straight people try to make queer people feel guilty for shipping two same gender characters together or say it's problematic to ship them, so I've made a little list debunking their ideas. I'll be talking a lot about Byler but this also applies to Elmax, Ronance, Steddie and queer ships in general.

"Why can't people be friends anymore?" Why can't a guy and a girl be friends either? Why aren't you saying this about Chrissy and Eddie shippers? Unless the issue is that they're gay.

"You're assuming Will is gay based on stereotypes!" Of course, the horrible stereotype that gay guys like men but not women, how problematic of me.

"You're fetishizing children!" No one says this about M*leven shippers. The fact that you view a queer relationship as inherently sexual and adult is sexualising young people much more than shipping Will and Mike does.

"Men will be scared to be affectionate to their friends in real life in case people think that they're gay!" First of all, I doubt some straight guy is going to stop hanging out with his friend because some random person on the internet drew Steddie fanart. And second of all, why are we treating straight men's fear of being perceived as gay as a perfectly valid and normal fear? (I elaborate a bit on this point in the reblogs)

"Why is it okay to say Mike Wheeler is gay but not say Robin is straight? You're erasing his sexuality!" First of all, when did Mike say he's straight? Sure he said he loves Eleven (which I doubt he does anyways) but bi people exist. Plus, there are so many straight characters and ships out there. Straight people don't look up lists of shows with canonical queer representation or watch a show because it has a straight girl in it. Lesbians like myself look up to characters like Robin and they are meaningful to them. No straight person feels seen in their heterosexuality because of Mike Wheeler. The only exception in my opinion is when people headcanon straight characters who are dating trans people as bi like Tao from Heartstopper because that comes off as transphobic.

"They're too young to know that they're gay and you're forcing a sexuality on them." I've known I'm gay since I was eleven or twelve which is the age they are in S1. And yet again, why aren't you saying this about straight people! Everyone accepted that Dustin and Lucas liked Max in S2. Yet Will is too young to know who he likes... Interesting.

"Grown adults wanting two young boys to kiss each other is pretty weird." The issue with this is again the hypocrisy. Adult M*leven shippers don't get told this. Mike kissed Eleven in S1 and it was completely cute and non-sexual because they are children so of course it isn't sexual. Hell they even made out when they were 13 and no one complained. Why would that be any different if he kissed Mike instead of Will? Yet again, people view queer people as being inherently sexual but queer people get cute little crushes or want to kiss people sometimes too. It's not a sexual thing. It's the exact same as a straight person doing it.

Anyways that's my rant done. It just annoys me when half of their arguements saying why it's wrong to ship these characters are just masked homophobia, even if the person saying it doesn't realize. Feel free to add more to this in the reblogs, this is just what I've seen.

#stranger things #byler #byeler #will byers #mike wheeler #steddie #ronance #elmax #jargyle

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byernation · 2 years

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Whenever you doubt Byler, remember that Will was planned to be in love with Mike from the start. Remember that Finn and Noah had to take a chemistry test. Remember that Mike has never had moments like that with anyone but Will. Remember the Venkman Lucas/Max Mike/Will foreshadowing. Remember every heart to heart Will and Mike have had. Remember the Variety interview. Remember Brett Gelman. Remember Eleven wasn't supposed to come back after season 1. Remember how most of the cast ships Byler. Remember how Byler has way more chemistry than Marijuana. Remember that the Duffers have taken inspiration from many shows with best friends to lovers tropes. Remember that Shawn Levi is for Byler. Remember Finn and Noah are for Byler. Remember the scripts. Remember the Eyewitness parallel. Remember the Byler docs. Remember nobody believing us about Will being gay and calling us delusional when we were right. Remember that Mike and El have nothing in common, and never have normal conversations. Remember the Duffers saying they don't believe in love at first sight. Remember Mosquito breakups being shown as comedic. Remember Byler fights being shown as a serious breakup. Remember Season 2. Remember the final placements in Season 4. Remember the show cares about detail. Remember Megamind is paralled to doomed relationships. Remember that, Byler, Jancy, Jopper, and Lumax are endgame couples, and have been all paralleled to each other at least once. Remember how the four endgames are always standing together. Remember the Duffers calling Mildew puppy love. Remember the cast's reaction to the monologue. Remember the stupid ass monologue in general. Remember Causeineedu. Remember NaturallyBrielle. Remember Millie improvising in almost all Mormon scenes. Remember the duffers mentioning one of their favorite shows growing up was a show where a man fell in love with his best friend who had a gf, and it turned out he shared those feelings. Remember that Mozzarella is paralled to Byler, but Byler is always the better version (You make me feel better for being different/You think I am a monster [] I say it/You didn't have to) and many more. Remember that Byler is absolutely going to be endgame, and they wouldn't build it up for 4 seasons for it to be unreciprocated. The duffers make mistakes, everyone does, but they know what they're doing (they made a hit show) and if you're still doubtful, it isn't just them writing it. Also, we have the music, the sets, the outfits, and camera angles on our side as well. Let MinnieMouse deny it all they want, but Byler is endgame along with Jopper, Jancy and Lumax. We have already won. It's been confirmed many times before, we just have to wait to prove it. And in those to years more proof will come, and we've gotten a lot of it already and it's only been 2 weeks. I know that sounded really stupid, but I see a few people giving up hope that the Duffers can pull this off (including myself at times) and I think despite all the proof we have we all need to hear this, especially with the Malaria shippers flooding everyone's inboxes lmfao. Anyways have and anazing day/night Byler nation. I am done with my rant.

#byler is endgame #byler #byler nation #byler tumblr #brett gelman #murray bauman #mike wheeler #mike wheeler is gay #mike wheeler is not straight #will byers is gay #stranger things #will byers #byler better be canon #byler hope #byler is requited

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chirpsythismorning · 2 years

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It would appear I am indeed one of the very few optimistic (delusional?) Bylers left.

Not saying that if you feel hopeless and need to move on, that you can't. A lot of you have been through this before with other shows. Again and again. You’re tired and fed-up and you have every right to be.

Technically, Season 5 won't be out for another 2+ years anyways, which means the best thing for everyone regardless is to get whatever we need off our chests now and then to just go on a hiatus for the foreseeable future.

When it comes to how I feel about Vol. 2, there were definitely at least a few good moments. If this season has anything going for it, it’s the emotional value. This is without a doubt the most I’ve cried ever while watching the show. One scene in particular that had me on the floor was the scene with Will and El reuniting and hugging. And of course the scene with Will and Mike in the van (DAMN YOU NOAH SCHNAPP FOR MAKING ME SOB SO HARD ALL DAY THAT I GOT A MIGRAINE!)

But yes, I am a Byler. So you could say I was a bit disappointed in that department.

And yet still, I think my take on the later part of season 4 is much different from the majority.

Because personally, I don’t think that what played out in Vol. 2 means that Byler is dead. If anything, I believe it to be more endgame than I did before (well, at least in comparison to pre-s4. There’s no denying pre-Vol. 2 confidence levels remain unmatched. Truly the best era for the Byler fandom to date).

I think my main issue is, like so many of us on here, I thought it was guaranteed we would get to see Mike become aware of Will’s feelings.

Alas, we did not.

And to be totally clear, without this revelation, Byler can’t go anywhere.

Neither forwards, nor technically backwards.

This means the baiting game is not over. Which as bad as it sounds, is why I’m still so optimistic…

Now, if they had made Will’s feelings obvious to Mike, or even the fact that Will is gay as being obvious to Mike, but STILL had Mike behave the way he did in Vol. 2, now THAT would have sucked. It would have been canon rejection on Mike’s end.

But we didn’t even get rejection from Mike.

Instead, we got Will coming off as a hardcore M*leven shipper in Mike's eyes, all while the audience was getting the exact opposite interpretation of this situation; that Will is helplessly in love with Mike.

Will is able to voice the extent of his love, albeit through advice to Mike about his own situation with El, in a way that no one else on the show has been able to. Most of the other characters need a bunch of bystanders to make them realize their feelings and push them in that direction. But Will, he doesn’t need someone holding his hand along the way, telling him what the right thing to do or say is. His love isn’t something he needs to really think about in order to understand it. It just is.

(Which is SO fucking ironic when you think about how Mike always needs help with figuring out his feelings for El and even sounds like he’s reading off a script when he’s trying to explain himself to her. Whereas with Will, s2 monologue teas, it’s the most natural thing Mike’s ever done. Unscripted, straight from the heart… And both Vol. 1-2 continued to drive home this concept, so maybe jot that down..)

It’s just that, unfortunately, in Will’s eyes, Mike will never return this love, which means his only option is to let Mike go. If supporting Mike and El’s relationship means putting himself dead last in every respect, so that his best friend and his sister can be happy, Will is going to do just that.

But as far as Mike knows, Will holds no romantic feelings for him. I mean after all, Will is guiding Mike literally every step of the way to confessing his love to El, and that doesn't sound like the behavior of someone who’s in love with you, now does it?

So why would Mike, throw everything on the line, including the survival of their family and friends in Hawkins by not simply just telling his gf he loves her? All while El is right there loving him and needing his love to fight (presumably), with Will beside him literally rooting for him to do just that? This is very obviously the only option in Mike’s eyes.

Which is ironic, because in a way, I think that Mike has truly never seen him and Will as an option, just like Will, but for an entirely different reason.

Mike views his feelings for Will as childish, something he will grow out of, or at least should have by now.

“We’re not kids anymore. What did you think, really? That we were never going to get girlfriends? That we were just going to sit in my basement and play games for the rest of our lives?”

If Mike can’t love El, then how can he possibly love any women? She’s special. She’s a superhero. He HAS to love her, right? It’s the best option he could ever possibly have. Well, at least considering…

But what happens when suddenly, he comes to the realization that him and Will ARE an option? And that the only thing ever stopping them was himself and his inability to just be honest with everyone and himself?

I think the truth is, there’s a reason that they’re holding off on this revelation for Mike.

It will be a catalyst. It will change everything.

Now, how exactly do you think Mike is going to react to this? The fact that Will was in love with him this whole time and he had no idea?

Honestly, I think he’s going to react horribly, but not for the reason everyone assumes.

Because I would argue that, if Mike was going to react badly with disgust or even just let Will down nicely to confirm it’s indeed unrequited, then the Duffer’s would have just given this revelation up by now. But they haven’t.

Once Mike finds out that Will is (probably always will be) in love with him, and that instead of telling him, Will used his love to help Mike get closer to El, even when Mike himself was having doubts over and over? That Will went as far as to lie about the painting he worked so hard on for Mike in order to rekindle their dying friendship, to instead insinuate it was commission from El, to give Mike that final push he needed to even have the courage to tell El he loved her? That all the moments like this that they shared as of late, was really just Will talking about himself? That the only reason he was able to tell El he loved her in the first place, was because he was so moved by Will’s love for him??

This is going to break Mike.

And let’s be real here, two episodes would not have done this revelation justice.

So now, just knowing the direction they went for Vol. 2, as well as coming to terms with it, I have reached the conclusion that, despite how bleak things seem now, ‘maybe all of this is happening for a reason’ (s2 Mike Wheeler, we miss u).

Which brings me to the other most important piece of the puzzle, which is that, arguably, El needs to be the one who ends things once and for all.

The general audience has been given the impression El is head over heels in love with Mike, and so of course they were rooting for Mike to get on with it and just tell her he loved her.

But that’s the interesting part. He finally did tell her, but her reaction in the aftermath was not something a lot of fans expected.

It seems that she’s distancing herself from Mike, a fact that Will acknowledges to Mike later at Hopper’s cabin, with Mike genuinely confused because he thought he did the one thing he had to do.

He told her he loved her. Which makes everything alright now, right?

But maybe it doesn’t.

Maybe the reminder we got, of that speech from Max to El, about how she didn’t need Mike or Hopper or ANY man to know her worth, was foreshadowing for what honestly needs to happen in order for El to really process and realize her own true feelings about Mike.

Because, although I do believe El genuinely thought she loved Mike, is it possible that Mike was not only having doubts about saying it because of the reasons he argued, or even because of some repressed feelings for Will, but also because El hadn’t given him what he needed to truly believe she loved him.

Mike, like a lot of people, doesn’t need to hear “I love you” to believe that someone loves him.

“I didn’t say it.”

“You didn’t have to.”

He wants something more meaningful, or more specifically, something along the lines of the speech Will gave to him in the van.

Will’s confession disguised as El’s, was what Mike needed to finally say I love you to El...

Something I think we also got caught up in, is this idea that the Duffer’s were just going to drop M*leven and throw in Byler, with everything else going on, while they still have a whole ass season to promote for another 3+ years, and to their mostly 80’s loving homophobic audience. If Byler is going to happen, it’s going to be the definition of slow-burn and endgame. That’s literally the only way.

This puzzle is complex, which sucks if you want all the answers now, because we’re just not going to get them. If they give up all their moves, then what is the point of telling the story at all?

Other pieces of the puzzle include things that arguably still need to happen before Byler can, even regardless of the constraints they have as show-runners who run the biggest show on Netflix’s dying platform.

Things like Will and El’s love for each other as brother and sister. Considering all the fans that said Will hates El because he didn’t stand up to her bullies or that he’s a home-wrecker who just wants to get with her boyfriend, is why I do think they needed to debunk these insinuations within the narrative. And boy oh boy did they deliver on that front. Will is the most selfless son of a bitch on the planet, who loves his best friend and his sister so much. They made that very clear. And you can see that despite a few homophobes here and there, the general audience's reaction to Will in Vol 2 is sympathy and to Mike it's confusion and betrayal...

Hmm, making El realize she doesn't even love Mike, after making Will's unrequited feelings for Mike more clear, after making Mike behave like an IDIOT this entire time juggling these two relationships, only for him to become aware of whats going on, and to clearly be in love with Will?

Sounds like a good way to set up Byler to an audience that might not have humored it before...

And like I said, with how important I do think it was for this to happen in order for them to go the Byler route, is why I don’t necessarily see this approach as a bad thing. We even got the Will and El hug in 4x08, which maybe it’s just because Noah and Millie are so close, but I would easily rank that on my top most well-earned moments in the whole show.

We NEEDED that. Especially in terms of what is likely to come in season 5 with Byler endgame...

Also, yes the Will angst sucked and it's just trauma porn at this point. I’m not going to deny that fully. I agree with pretty much all of the criticism in regards to how they chose to do certain things when they didn't necessarily have to, but I also simultaneously am able to understand that it again, maybe this is all happening for a reason. If they are indeed going to have Will play a big role in the final season, than them forgetting his birthday, Mike being oblivious and all this other shit he's been through combined, sets up a really arc for him next season, not even necessarily a villain one, but all of this pain has the potential to lead to a happy ending. And I'm being full serious.

Like we have Finn Wolfhard saying the ending of Stranger Things will be like the ending of Schitt’s Creek??? That it will end at it's highest point. The last episode of Schitt’s Creek is literally a happily ever after gay wedding, there's no other way to interpret that…

We also know that a lot of ideas for the last seasons were planned from the beginning, with David Harbour saying that he knew the ending way back in s2 and that it's beautiful and has been the intended plan all along. That there's easter eggs that will have us going 'WOW this is what we've been watching the whole time'? That it's wonderful?

If you’re the level of Byler truther that believes they were somewhat planned all along from the beginning, then you would also know that if they plan a happy ending for Mike and Will, then they would have no problem killing us this painfully in the beginning of the end, because they know we’ll be the ones cheering on by the actual end, and it'll be the homophobes who are pissed and stuck with this result forever as endgame.

I’m just saying, don’t be surprised when s5 gets closer and we actually see them promoting Byler… like a lot. And we actually start getting in canon hints at scenes with El herself even trying to get them together.

Groveling Mike Wheeler era?

Will finding a potential new love interest and Mike pining/jealous?

Come ONNN! You guys are way more delusional than you’re giving yourselves credit for and I urge you to join me!!!

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problematicbyler · 3 months

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i think people misunderstood me a little with the other ask lol. by saying "this stuff didn't happen in harry potter fandom" i meant no one was judging people for engaging in smut content. not that i know of anyway. i myself have read so many harry x ginny smut that holy water cannot save me lmao

on the byler tag some uers like to offer many creative variations of the word creep to refer to us, some of them being "we watched them grow up" (i can see why this can make some ppl uncomfy and i respect that as long as you don't force your personal opininon as the correct and only one) "these are teenagers you are sexualizing when you're an adult"

those things also apply to harry potter but i never came across anyone trying to cancel people the same way puritan bylers do.

I know what you meant, Nonnie!! We were just responding to the fact that another Byler somewhere in the tag did in fact argue that sexualizing teen characters didn't happen in other fandoms such as HP/PJO/etc when it very clearly did.

Not to be like *shakes fist* kids these days but I do think the anti mindset is a much more recent thing. If I'm correct in my fandom history, it really broke out with Sheith vs Klance in the Voltron days. But it's also just younger folks who don't know how to be in fandom, or folks who are mostly normies delving into Ao3 and then being surprised when the website for "freaks" has freaky shit on it. Or folks who are used to algorithms that put things on their feed instead of them having to curate their own feeds. It doesn't help that Stranger Things is a lot of people's first real fandoms.

IDK, it's a lot of factors, probably. I grew up in the Supernatural fandom where a large portion of fans were Wincest shippers and I learned very early how to filter tags, what ship-and-let-ship was, don't like don't read etc. I don't feel like many in the Byler fandom have really learned those things.

#spicy byler #byler #anonymous #ask #harry potter mention #(fuck jkr)

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oldfashionedmorphine · 10 months

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hi friends!! i’m super excited to share Will’s perspective from the scene in the basement all the way back in chapter 4 of i’m a wreck (without you here)!!!

i highly recommend reading chapter 17 first!!! 😉

(it’s 2.7k words! oh and psa for anyone who has read my story so far—especially if you haven’t read this chapter in a while: i have gone back and fixed some things i didn’t like cause as much as i loved this chapter, i published it before i was 100% satisfied with it…but it works better now! also idk why but i kinda like Will’s pov more 👀)

🎵🎶 and look!! i even picked out songs!!! :D

tagging my fans: @across-thestars @boahey @magentamee @daydreams-in-the-moonlight @greenfiend @rebellius @booksandpaperss @castelobyers @total-serene560 @wheelersboy @sparks-olivarpente @hazmatazz @suzieburself @unrepentant-byler-shipper @quarter-pasteleven

Enjoy!

Cause It’s the Only Thing I Wanna Do

June 22, 2004 11:47 pm

“—I really wanna know how you’ve actually been, you know, from you.”

“Well, uh...” Mike starts to say, but then he pauses, eyebrows lifting, eyes wide—it looked as though he were trying to figure out where to start first. And then Will watches Mike pour himself another shot, slamming it down fast, and sucking his teeth before he continues, “Well...I live in an apartment, it’s not terrible. Rent is a little expensive where I’m at, so I have a roommate—he’s a law student and I rarely ever see him—but anyway, I had a lot of financial mishaps over the years, so I never quite got out of the cycle of renting to own anything...or heck, even live alone. But it doesn’t really bother me though—I have a cat, her name’s Josephine—that was her name at the shelter and I thought it was cute so I kept it—and uh...definitely no girlfriend…”

Definitely no girlfriend?

The way he had said it raised a tiny little flag in Will’s mind. And then there was a pause between Mike’s words—Will almost found the nerve to ask him to elaborate, but then Mike shakes his head slightly and he’s back to speaking, “And the weather is pretty dreary. Both Nancy and Holly were convinced I have depression. They’re probably right. They said the weather only makes it worse. It does get lonely sometimes too—my relationships—well, nothing ever sticks. Honestly, it's mostly sucked, but I can’t bring myself to leave.”

Will pulls his knees to his chest, he wasn’t sure what he was expecting to hear, but hearing Mike talk about feeling lonely and how his sisters were convinced he had depression didn’t sit well with him. Once upon a time, back during the darker days of being so incredibly furious because Mike had left him behind, there were times when Will had hoped he was miserable, but eventually he grew out of that mindset after his heart hurt less, and over the past couple years, whenever he thought of Mike, he liked to imagine he was happy somehow, even if it was without him. And all the things he knew from afar—the things Nancy had told him—were all positive because she had never once mentioned anything about depression, she only informed him of the highlights. Simple stuff like Mike getting a new job or how he had sent gifts for the kids, and he knew about the cat, just not her name, but of course each time Nancy would also add a little something to the effect of ‘You know, I think he misses you, you should try talking to him—I have his number if you want it’, but of course, he couldn’t do it. He wanted to call, but too much time had passed…and it wasn’t like Mike ever tried to reach out either—Nancy had his number too, so she probably offered it to Mike at some point as well. Ultimately, it felt like the damage was too severe to ever recover from. And it was also very hard to believe that Nancy was really telling the truth—that Mike actually missed him—and not just meddling to make family gatherings less awkward. Maybe she had hoped that if the two of them were friends again, then her brother would be more inclined to visit. Perhaps a selfish motive, but if that was the truth, then he could understand why she would try and make the effort. In the end, Will thought it was best to leave it alone, because there would be less chance of getting hurt again that way…

And when Will realizes Mike had left him a short window to speak, he takes it—he wants Mike to know he's listening. “Why not? If it sucks, why not move somewhere else? What’s stopping you? It’s not like you haven’t done a big move before. Just go somewhere more affordable,” but Mike’s face was still sour, so Will makes a small attempt to provoke a smile with a teasing tone, “and with better weather.”

“I dunno. It’s stupid when I think about it now, but I pissed everyone off back when I first moved—and then you wouldn’t talk to me anymore—I guess I just felt like it all had to mean something.”

Will quirks an eyebrow. “What do you mean?”

Mike keeps his eyes cast down at his hands, fidgeting with an empty shot glass. “I mean, that me living there, in Seattle, couldn’t be all for nothing. And I only realize now that I was being so fucking stubborn about it. It’s just that...half the time—half the time I was embarrassed that I didn’t live up to my parents expectations. I could have been more—or something. Something more. I had really hoped being somewhere else would have helped, like when people talk about a ‘fresh start’, but I just feel like—I dunno, like I’m going through the motions.” He scoffs. “I can’t believe I’m saying this but...if twelve year old me could see me now I’m sure he’d be pretty disappointed. I let myself get knocked down because of a couple dumbass choices—any normal person would have dusted themselves off and tried again. But not me.”

“Oh…” Will murmurs. He wasn’t sure what else to say.

“Not me...or I dunno, maybe I was just punishing myself.”

Again he watches Mike pour himself another shot of vodka, filling it to the very brim this time, almost to the point it spills over, and as he brings the shot to his mouth, some of the liquor drips onto his shirt and the floor. It was clear Mike’s coordination was wavering with each additional shot. And then Mike offers to pour Will another, but he shakes his head, refusing—Will knew his limits. Three shots of vodka was more than enough, possibly too much, because he was definitely feeling it. If he drank any more he’d regret it in the morning. Not to mention he wasn’t a big fan of getting drunk to begin with. He always feared he’d end up like his deadbeat dad if he wasn’t careful about pacing himself when it came to alcohol.

Mike sets the bottle back on the coffee table. “You probably know this, but I was also holding a major…major grudge against my dad for the longest fucking time because of his—well, cause of all those things he said.” He chuckles, which Will found to be a bit unsettling considering what Mike was saying. “At one point my mom even said that he was ‘sorry for everything’ and that he wanted to try to ‘make amends’…part of me thought she was just saying it to force me to apologize first, but I still couldn’t face him even if it was the damn truth. Like, I just couldn’t trust that he really felt differently after everything—well ‘cause, all those horrible things he said—the things he implied…even about you, they might as well have been…about me. Y’know? I mean, they were…they are, he just didn’t know it. And I really didn’t think he’d still be sorry if he knew about that.”

Wait—what? Did he just—

Will was stunned, though he wasn’t sure he heard him right. Because it wasn’t like he had said the words outright, yet it sounded a hell of a lot like he was implying that—

And now Mike was looking over at him, full of panic, with the kind of expression you’d expect from someone who just revealed a truth they never meant to share. His eyes remain locked on Mike, but the longer he stares at him the more confused it makes him, so Will drops his gaze to the floor and tightens his arms around his legs. No matter how Mike’s face seemed, it wasn’t confirmation of what he thought he heard—hopes he heard.

Out of the corner of his eye, Will sees Mike reaching for the vodka again, this time drinking straight from the bottle. Part of him wanted to snatch the bottle away from Mike—I think you’ve had enough, mister, you’ll regret another drop—except he can’t seem to move a damn muscle for some reason.

And after a moment Mike sighs, setting the bottle down. “Of course, I don’t exactly know how he would’ve handled the news—I mean, obviously I never told him—or anyone from back then—”

But what else would have upset his father so much? What could it possibly have been that he never told him…or anyone else? Drugs? No, because he said it had something to do with me too, so that can’t be it, not to mention the way he emphasized—

Mike hiccups. “As I say this now, you’re the first I’ve—”

Okay, but I’m the first what? I need you to say it!

“—and of course I never let it go with him...but then...it was too late. The option to even think about—well, about finally forgiving him...and telling him the truth about me—”

The truth about—okay, yeah, that has to be it—Ted must’ve said a bunch of homophobic shit to Mike and I was roped into the mix somehow, because Mike said his dad ‘implied horrible things’ that involved me, yet all of it also applied to Mike? So then he must’ve meant that he’s gay…or maybe he’s bisexual? What else would make Ted Wheeler lose his shit? What else would he want to conceal for so long? And that still had to do with me somehow—cause it sure as shit wouldn’t have been over video games…plus…no one—not Nancy, Holly, Karen, El, or any one else—has ever once mentioned anything to me about Mike having a girlfriend since…high school…

“—cut all the bullshit, but...it didn’t. And I didn’t even go—didn’t even go to his funeral. I didn’t deserve to. It’s stupid—or I’m stupid. And now with Nancy—I didn’t—fuck—I didn’t even...consider...that I had so little time left with her. And...my options were taken away...again. I could have—I could have...seen her more. I know we weren’t always...the closest, but she—she definitely made more effort than me—if I had just...been less of a dipshit and forced myself to visit...but now—well, I can’t do that anymore. She’s gone, Will. She’s really...” Mike pauses, then he whispers, “gone.”

And then Will looks back over at Mike—he was using his sleeves to dry his eyes, but his tears were relentless, continuing to spill over, and with snot also dripping from his nose. The mere sight of Mike in this state elicits tears of his own, as well as an overwhelming urge to comfort him, to offer him a shoulder, but when Will starts to inch closer to him, he hesitates. There was a time they used to hug, but what if Mike didn’t want to be touched?

Fuck it—he can push me away if he needs to.

Will must have caught him by surprise with his sudden impulse, because now Mike’s looking at him with glossy bloodshot eyes as a shuddered gasp escapes his pale lips. And then Mike starts to tremble as though he were on the cusp of shattering into a million pieces. But for a single selfish second, as Mike was falling apart right before his eyes, Will can’t help but marvel at the sheer impossibility of the situation. At how close he was to Mike. Their knees were now pressed together and the scent of his shampoo was so prominent—citrus and mint—mixed with a hint of alcohol coming from his breath. But the moment passes and then the instinct to wrap an arm around him kicks in, to draw him even closer. Mike’s head immediately falls onto Will’s shoulder and his sobs grow louder.

And between sobs and sniffles Mike starts stuttering, “I’m n-never gonna see her again—ever. Never hear her voice—see her s-smile. Never—and I missed out—the pictures—her! Never, n-never—I’m so stupid—stupid—” Without any warning, Mike moves to throw his arms around Will, seeming desperate as he grabs onto his shirt, pulling at the fabric so intensely that threads begin to snap, threatening to rip the seams apart entirely—hey, I like this shirt—except Will couldn't find it in him to make Mike stop. All he can do is try and hold him and hope that it helps. And when Mike starts to beg softly into his ear, the words tug even more at his heartstrings, “Please, please—don’t go. Please, you can’t go. Please, please s-stay—ple-please don’t go. I don’t want—I don’t want—don’t leave me again. Please, please don’t—don’t—don’t—” then Mike tucks his face into the crook of Will’s neck, his pleading words becoming too muffled to comprehend.

Will tries to ignore the small part inside of him that feels betrayed for allowing himself to get this close to Mike and risk his heart all over again. And he briefly thinks back to when he held that number in his hand, debating with himself for hours before he pushed a single button—before he ever left that voicemail—because he knew exactly what would happen. It was a slippery slope and the stakes were high. But of course, a larger part of him wanted Mike back more than anything, so he had set aside his fear and from the very second he dialed his number, he was all in—heart unsheathed and vulnerable. And now here he was, sitting on the floor of an old familiar basement, more than a little tipsy, with Michael Wheeler drunk and trembling in his arms, begging for him to never leave him again.

But tomorrow Mike would wake up and not remember any of this. And if Will were to ask him about it, he’d reply that he didn’t mean anything he said. That it was all a mistake. That it was only extreme grief and copious amounts of vodka that made him utter such words, but Will tries to ignore every invading thought. Thoughts driven only by fear—a defense mechanism designed to shield his heart by preparing him for some hypothetical worst case scenario like last time. Because something inside him was fully aware that he had slipped over that edge and he was falling once again for the idea of spending the rest of their lives together. And that maybe he wouldn’t survive this time if it all went wrong.

But it won’t. Not this time. This time it’ll be different—no more hiding.

“Hey, hey...it’s gonna be okay. I’m here...” Will whispers to him as he brings a hand up to stroke the back of Mike’s head, his hair the slightest bit damp to the touch, and then slowly his shaking begins to subside. “I know it hurts. But it’s gonna be okay... maybe not right now, but someday.”

Mike’s sobs taper off until the only sound filling the space in the room was REO Speedwagon’s Keep On Loving You;

“…When I said that I love you, I meant that I love you forever…”

Will rocks him gently side to side, humming the song as if it were a lullaby. Eventually Mike grows heavier in his arms and Will realizes it would be better for Mike to sleep in a bed, so he tries to rouse him. “Mike?”

No answer, so he tries again, giving him a little shake. “Mike…Mike?”

“Hmm.”

“Come on, let’s get you to bed—”

He groans at the suggestion.

“You can’t sleep like this, come on…”

Mike mumbles—it sounds like he was asking him to stay.

“I’m not going anywhere, I promise.”

He finally manages to help him up, but they only get as far as the sofa bed right behind them. At first they both stay sitting at the very edge, with Mike still trying to hold onto Will, but in the end, Will gently eases him towards the pillow and he goes out like a light.

Will tilts his head as he leans over him, then reaches a hand out—at first it was to simply push back the hair from Mike’s eyes, but right after, he caresses his cheek with the back of his hand. Even with puffy eyes and tear-soaked skin with splotches of red, he was beautiful. Maybe more so now than ever before.

And Will felt guilty for wanting to capture Mike in such a dark moment. But that feeling didn’t stop him from picking up his sketchbook off the floor and opening it to an empty page…

#byler #byler fanfic #byler fanfiction #iawwyh

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wheeler-fan · 3 months

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you like to use the "Bylers cannot talk about Byler without mentionning mileven" thing again us but the reality is that Milevens ask us all the time to justify ourselves about why we believe that byler will be canon when Mike is currently dating El. Also, if Mileven was a strong relationship then there would be nobody talking about a possible mileven breakup or something. You have to explain why Mileven will eventually breakup to explain how you think the Duffers will handle El, Will and Mike's arcs. That's a must cause explaining that Byler is better than mileven without explaining why Mileven went from top to bottom feels like saying : look, I prefer byler to mileven so I simply want it to happen! the goal is to explain why we think Mike and El's arcs would be better/ why would they be happier even if they breakup? If you can give one point to bylers, it would be that they care about Mike-Will but also El's arcs. I never saw a byler saying that they don't give a fuck about El being sad if Mike dumped her or sum! they explain why they think it will be better for her and why they think that El is not that happy to stay in that relationship as she was before.

I'm not even talking about healthy arguments about some mileven scenes, i understand, bc we all know there are scenes that can be interpreted in different ways. I'm talking about bylers who are making jokes about normal and happy mileven scenes (literally, u guys can talk about mileven s3ep8 kiss or s4 kiss, but making theories that mike was unhappy and uncomfortable while kissing her at the beginning of s3 is literally wild, whatever u like it or not, they were both happy then,BOTH. No one was forcing mike to kiss her or anything like that) and it's just really mean towards mileven shippers. You guys are making screen shots at some random moments of these scenes and making wild theories, yk what it looks like? it looks ridiculous.i can show u, look:

"oh god, guys can u see how he looks at will? he's literally disgusted lmao😝😝 anyway mileven endgame 🦅‼️"

is that cool towards byler shippers? no. Would i be attacked and called a homophobic after that? definitely yes. So why? Can we just all respect each other? is it really too much for us?

#stranger things

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sennqu · 2 years

Text

Mike's Cali Storyline Retrospective

"And I feel like maybe I was worrying too much about El, and I don't know, maybe I feel like I lost you or something."

foreshadowing for Mike's arc in S4

a.k.a I think Byler Tumblr has been interpreting Mike's actions so completely wrong in Vol. 1 and that is why we were blindsided by his monologue and I'm going to explain exactly how

a.a.k.a Mike isn't suffering from "internalized homophobia". What he is suffering from is a simple case of "warm of heart, but dumb of ass"

Alright. I think!! I have enough pieces to finally explain why Mike's monologue makes sense, why it is the natural culmination of his arc, and what this exposes about how he truly thinks and feels. (spoiler alert: he's not in love with El; he just thinks he is)

This post is going to include a Lot of Links. Mostly because this analysis has been a piecemeal work in the making as I stumble into epiphanies about our favorite puzzle box Michael Wheeler. The Links are going to be Underlined like so: This link for example links to how I think Mike felt about Will before leaving for Cali. Summary: Because El wrote a lot and Will called so little, Mike thought that if he felt like he missed his best friend more than his girlfriend, it's just because they had less contact.

Second, I am going to have to link you to my separate Mike analysis post concerning his behavior in the airport and the roller rink. It's very long but worth the read imo. I worked very hard on it. but if tl;dr: Mike was worrying that Will pulled away from him but believes his worries are founded on platonic grounds. (spoiler alert: it isn't)

Now, onto the main part of what Byler Tumblr got wrong: the junkyard heart to heart.

I believe that Mike wasn't -- at least not consciously -- thinking of himself (edit: himself and Will) during this conversation as a lot of byler shippers were interpreting. He was thinking of El and came away from this heart to heart believing that she sincerely wanted to get her powers back.

You remember how his and El's fight ended? He told her she was a superhero and El told him, "not anymore." Then El gets intercepted by Owen's team and decides to go to the Nina Base alone. She then writes Mike, "I am going to become a superhero again. From El".

Mike has been worrying about El's words since their fight and came away with the wrong conclusion.

He thinks that El wants to be a superhero. To Mike, El wasn't sad he couldn't say ILY to her as a regular girl. El was sad that Mike couldn't say ILY because she thought that deep inside Mike thought she was a monster. And because Mike loves El the Superhero, this makes perfect sense to him and explains away all of El's behavior.

And you know what? Mike could have very well been right about this take before El went to Nina Base. But El came out of her journey understanding that superheros and monsters are myths. She came out of her journey knowing she wasn't a superhero (or a monster). What she was was a girl who happened to have powers and a huge amount responsibility she didn't ask for but needed to claim anyway. Because she had to.

But Mike has no way of knowing that or even begin understanding that. That is why his anxieties in the van were about just being that lame nerd who found Superman on his doorstep. That is why his monologue is so centered on El's superheroism because that is what he believes she was asking from him.

quick edit: it's also highly likely that the truth Mike didn't want to tell El was that he was afraid she wasn't going to need him anymore

He believes that the thing he couldn't explain to her was that he did love her (as a superhero) but that it made him feel unnecessary and unneeded. that if El just truly realized she was a superhero, she wouldn't need him anymore. Will's words in the van got through to Mike because he wanted to think that maybe El needed him around after all (spoiler alert: she does not, not in the way he thinks) (sidenote: after the van scene, i'm pretty sure Mike now thinks that the painting Will brought to the airport was supposed to be a surprise gift from El (and Will) that they were going to give to him at the roller rink before all the chaos. He probably thinks now that Will was just trying to keep it a secret)

Mike's monologue is the natural conclusion of what he was going through in his arc. And El's arc was learning that, essentially, what Mike and she believed about herself was wrong.

Mike ends S4 not knowing he isn't loving El the way she needs to be loved. El ends S4 realizing this too. That is why she isn't talking to him in the timeskip; that is why she is standing alone. That is why I believe she is going to break up with him in S5.

And why is this a good thing for byler? I'm glad you asked! Here is another link to a post where I posit that Mike's obliviousness to Will's feelings is a good thing and is why I think this means definite endgame Byler is on the horizon.

#ku blarghs #strangely blogging #byler #i ended up basing my Cali write up on Mike because tbh the fandom is p much on the same page with Will and El #it's just Mike who is giving us a hard time lmao #now to work on my S4 Sucks Because The Series Wants Mike and El to Break Up in S5 write up.....

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pbnjloverman · 21 days

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heyy, I saw your pinned post in which you were crying talking about byler doubt and I literally cried😭 (I'm a mileven fan) so I thought I'd write to you because you seem to be a really nice person 😭

(you don't have to read it if you don't want to dw)

when I watch st, I have no doubts about mileven, it's my favorite ship since I watched this series and what's more, it's my favorite ship in my entire life, I feel like my personality is built from a mix of mike and el's personalities + their relationship. There isn't a day when I don't think about them, come up with fake scenarios, don't look at their photos on Pinterest and think about how perfect they are, don't think about them while listening to music or watching movies, etc.

However, when I go on tumblr (most people probably know that this is a place where there is a significant preponderance of byler fans than mileven fans) and read byler theories several times, I have doubts about a ship that means the whole world to me and I literally wouldn't wish it on anyone.

apart from the arguments between Byler and Mileven fans about who is delulu, whose ship makes more sense and whose ship is toxic, etc. We all have something in common, we are people who found something deep in two fictional characters and the relationship between them, it's obvious that none of us want to find out that everything we imagined and believed in wasn't true, none of us wants to feel stupid for believing in something that didn't work out, no one wants to find themselves in a situation where it turns out that your favorite character is actually someone completely different. different than you thought.

lately I see more and more byler doubts (I don't know why 😭 did I miss something?) and it makes me sad when I see it because I know how important a seemingly stupid fictional ship can be to someone (someone like me for example 😭). I don't know if you will read this and if you will be interested in my opinion because I am a mileven soldier and it's as if I was playing on the opposite team, but I think that regardless of whether our favorite ship will be endgame or not, it was and will be something special for us, it made us spend many wonderful moments smiling, making edits, reading ff, etc. and I know that the ending of the series will be heartbreaking for all of us anyway so it's a shame to beat ourselves up twice 😭😭

well anyway thanks for ur time❤️❤️

I'm kinda scared about what will happen in ST5, byler doubt is killing And my friend who is a mileven is also in doubt. 😭😭

Btw you are the first mileven that talks me in good way, it's sad that almost every mileven that talks to me insults me, I feel so sorry that that kind of milevens are ruin the reputation of milevens shippers because there are milevens like you that are really sweet and don't deserve ppl hating on them because one brainless person decide to be mean

#mileven

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most-canon-non-canon-ship-poll · 10 months

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literally hoping they break up in the last season

Why Mileven is shit - a submission-based essay, part 2/3

Mileven - a currently canon het ship from the Stranger Things fandom between Michael (Mike) Wheeler and Jane (Eleven) Ives/Hopper/Byers/IDK

they NEED to breakup (AGAIN) in the final season let's start w their character arcs rn. el was born in a lab and was raised VERY strict to be a weapon and shit. she escapes and now her whole arc is finding herself and being who she is separate to what people tell her she is. mike comes from a lowkey conservative family with parents who are married only to fit into the normal, not because they love each other. his arc, similar to his sisters' struggle in earlier seasons, is to not fall into conformity just because you feel like you should. both of these stories line up with the main moral of the show: be who you are even if it isn't "normal" ot whatever now how does mileven go against this? mike, and a bunch of ppl around el, in the earlier seasons keeps telling el what she should do/be. even in the later seasons we see mike refering to el as a "superhero" (which she doesn't like). neither of them feel free to be themselves around the other (shown by el lying to mike and mike being WAY out of character around el, etc). mike literally can't tell el he loves her while not under pressure. mileven sometimes parallels mike's parents' and sta.cy (a failed conformity relationship) and other bad relationships ANYWAYS it also reallyyyy pains will byers (who's been canonically in love with mike for like years, and mike's best friend) to see this. also, milevens keep harassing will/mike shippers on anon even months after the last season. like they have a hate discord server just for it. anyways i love mike and el but ohhh my god there is still SO much i haven't mentioned about how bad they are together (and how bad shippers often are, sometimes being violently homophobic and calling bylers delusional and shit)

OOOH IT FUCKING SUCKS THEY ARE SOOOOOO BAD FOR EACH OTHER JESUS THEY DON'T COMMUNICATE LIKE EVER THEY ARE BOTH CLEARLY IN IT BECAUSE OF THE EXPECTATION OF A ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE THEY CAN'T CONFIDE IN EACH OTHER THEY DON'T SHARE ANY INTERESTS THEY'RE HAVING CONFLICT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THANK *GOD* I AM UTTERLY CONVINCED THEY ARE HEADING FOR A CANONICAL PERMANENT BREAKUP. NOT TO MENTION THEY ARE BOTH GAY AS HELL TO ME. YOU SEEN THAT "THIS SHIP IS SO CANON AND IT'S A LESBIAN AND A GAY MAN" TWEET? YEAH. FUCK THIS STUPID FUCKING SHIP NOT TO MENTION THE SHIPPERS ARE FREQUENTLY OPENLY HOMOPHOBIC. UGHHHHHHH KILLING BITING (this is my fave btw)

they have no chemistry or buildup unlike the other st couples. they kissed season 1 right after she asked if he would be her brother. hes very obviously compensating for something. i think i gagged when they made out in season 3. speaking of. thats all they do. make out. they dont really have meaningful conversations. this also comes from the fact that when mike met her she was fresh out the lab that abused her for like 11 years. she was not socially ready to understand the bounds of a platonic relationship let alone a romantic one. anyway mileven break up s5 will happen i believe it. if nothing else. cross ur fingers gamers

the sheer homophobia and general toxicity that the fans of this ship create is absolutely insane when their perfect (read: mischaracterized) straight (read: homosexually-coded) couple is judged for having toxic or incompatible elements is insane. the only good romantic aspect between these two characters is in a cringefail "wow this really doesn't work at all" i-want-to-put-this-dynamic-under-a-microscope-and-study-it-because-it's-an-absolute-trainwreck" kind of way. el has been abused and cut off from society her whole life and at 12 years old she immediately gets together with this guy at whose earth shattered after his best friend went missing who then has surviors guilt after she almost does which is misconstrued as romantic rather than unhealthy obsession and trauma. and so on and so forth.. there's just so much wrong they lie to each other So Fucking Much despite truthfulness being very important to them and they ignore their friends to make out (which is filmed in a way that is meant to feel uncomfortable btw lmao) and el doesn't understand mike's trauma from bullying and he doesn't understand how she doesn't want to be built up into being a superhero etc etc. and it's just so increasingly bad I want to rub my temples just thinking about them. they're just so bad for each other and their relationship has done nothing but make them worse in general but for some reason their ship is viewed as fluffy or cute or whatever the hell. anyway mike is so heavily coded to be fucking gay and in love with his best friend (and el can be interpreted to be lesbian coded) and I just need to get them out of there amen

I'm gonna make a list bc the reasons are many: 1) their first casual interaction they get together but in the same conversation she asks him if she can be like a sister to him 2) all their "cute moments" are them making out in the 3rd season with still absolutely no chemistry 3) their only actual cute scene is them dancing at the snowball yet in the same scene they portray the same way two couples that are not romantic 4) mike becomes a terrible person when he's with eleven 5) eleven literally GOT OUT OF A LAB SHE WAS RAISED IN and this is the first guy she dated 6) she can't even say he's a good kisser 7) mike can't tell her that he loves her (bc he doesn't) and the only time he does he makes this whole ugly ass speech up about how she's his "superhero" even though she doesn't want to be seen only for her superpowers 8) in said speech, while listing the things that he loves about her, he only names her superpowers + he lies multiple times 9) EVEN AFTER SAID SPEECH she is still mad at him and won't talk to him (probably bc she saw right through his bs) 10) she spent a whole 6 months lying to him about all of her life 11) mike is clearly gay and is meant to be with his childhood best friend will 12) mike idolizes her and doesn't see her as an actual person 13) eleven needs to be her own person (ffs she just got out of a lab) 14) the ship sucks and even the authors and actors say so

they have NO chemistry. they kissed after one week of knowing each other when they were 12 and eleven didn't even know what a romantic relationship was at the time, given the fact that right before mike kisses her she says "will you be like my brother?". they spent the entirety of season 2 apart with mike calling el on his walkie and el watching romantic movies on the tv for a year (then will is in trouble and mike says 'fuck it' and goes full protective boyfriend mode but this isn't about byler so i digress) and start dating soon after they meet again even though they haven't had a SINGLE conversation and are barely friends. season 3 comes along and the writers do their utmost best to show us how incompatible they are. their makeout scenes are uncomfortable, they break up at the beginning of the season and neither one of them seems particularly bothered that their first relationship is over. in fact, the happiest we see el in the entire series is during the time they're broken up, when she gets close to max (who she actually has chemistry with, by the way) and finally experiences freedom, being a teenage girl and etc since mike had been "keeping her all to himself" for like, a year. aside from that, he doesn't go after her at all after she dumps his ass (literally) but when he and will have a fight, he bikes across town in the rain just to apologize, that boy is GAY. finally, the theme of season 4 is lies and once again, mike and el spend the season apart (once again, mike spends the season with WILL) and right before they part ways, they have a big fight about mike being unable to so much as WRITE "love, mike" on his letters to el, let alone say it, and he bullshits his way through it and refuses to say the actual reason until vol. 2, when he apparently "confesses" that he's afraid he'll lose her if he says it (okay, amigo, you're gonna lose your girlfriend who was literally begging you to say 'i love you' not even a week ago, aham, totally valid excuse). conclusion: they don't know each other and they don't act like themselves when they're together. mike hides his nerdy nature, el feels like she has to be the amazing superhero he's always viewed her as or else he'll lose interest and it just feels like they're both grasping at straws because this relationship has been dragged on for too long that they don't know how to break up permanently. they are afraid of losing each other, but not romantically, as mike was el's first semblance of family after escaping the lab and mike feels like it's his duty to protect and care for el. also, mike is gay. in other words, FREE THEM.

#propaganda #why [ship name] is shit #the (s)hit list #not a poll #anti milkvan #anti mileven #again -#byler #kinda?

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maddy-ferguson · 10 months

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Tbh i am gladly open to be labelled as a mike fan anti (not anti mike but anti as in how he is treated in fanon by his fans) bc it looks like they just crap on the entire Party to prop him up atp. I didnt even care abt it that much but the lucas and max thing is really irritating me especially when we know they also want mike to be max as in filling max's s4 role as a recycled role for s5. But they also want mike to be lucas in the sense that mike should be the one to save max? So simultaneously mike is supposedly max.2 with getting vecnad kidnapped or having to be saved but also he is taking lucas and even el's role in saving max. Yeah make it make sense lol. And as i said i wouldnt care abt this i am not even a byler shipper but when you go to the lum4x tag or max and lucas's tags and see pretty much most of their posts arent even abt them but abt other characters like mike and how mike is so similar to max or how mike is taking max and lucas's roles, it is just bad.

the max and mike are the same person bit is so tired like i get that tags are organizational so if you talk about max you're allowed to tag your post max mayfield but how long are we as a society gonna subject max fans/people whose main ship is lumax to the mike comparisons...do you know about the mike was supposed to be a vecna victim and vecna had to improvise that's why patrick's story is underdeveloped theory? it's so...it's comical in a flat-earther way and as i was saying yesterday, i would love to have that much faith in the writers and to think that EVERYTHING is intentional and that that wasn't just another shortcoming in how they write/don't write their black characters but...come on...it's like creative negationism lmao. and making them not giving the one black vecna victim a backstory as developed/compelling as the others about mike is just...kind of insane. like how deep in denial can you possibly be, it's not like they even have a stellar history that you'd be able to use to fight the allegations.

anyway. i'll ask the usual question, if you like mike that much why do you feel the need to do all that (that also meaning stuff like saying he was bullied for being gay btw)...is he not interesting enough as is? like you said, they do crap on the entire party to prop him up like oh my god. what would the heart of the party think of your behavior...

#if anyone who likes that theory follows me i would say sorry but i'm not #i like how you said i am gladly open to being labelled a mike fan anti when you're literally on anon sdkjskjd #ask

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booksandpaperss · 2 years

Text

Welcome to booksandpaperss (aka chaos lol)

Hello hello fellow gay people! Apparently people actually follow me?? And since I usually end up spamming my page with reblogs this is me making an effort be somewhat organized on here so ppl can actually navigate this blog and find my posts (to a decent degree anyway 💀)

update as of 4/4/23: my apologies to feminism bc as you will see 90% of this blog is Mike Wheeler. there’s rlly nothing I can do abt it, hope you understand 🙏

Other sites where you can find me:

ao3 - booksandpaperss

instagram (art acc) - @/fizzy.noodle.doodles

Blog Index:

Writing (WIP excerpts, ficlets, snippets, etc) -

My mandatory Be Nice to Me (by TBF) byler fic- byler fic WIP sneak peak, aka my painting fight fic that completely spiraled out of control and is now also Mike hostage theory, petergate, and lettergate all wrapped into one

And I’ll look directly at the Sun (but only in the dark) - byler fic WIP sneak peak, title loosely based off of anti hero, it’s a pre s3 byler relationship study

right by your side- byler WIP sneak peak, Will-centric and Will has powers fic, among other things ;)

A Look inside Max Mayfield’s “last word” letters to the party- an index of ficlets for my version of Max’s letters to each party member, very angsty, will be updated as I post each letter <3

Info dump post of my season 1 rewrite - byler fic WIP (multichapter), it’s just a general overview of my season 1 AU where Mike goes with Will into the UD ;)

Clinging to Before - a bite sized byler rain fight study/ficlet/poem of sorts

To Swing in our Rusty Memory (like the age old pact) - a Mike gets vecna’d poem from Will’s POV, heavily inspired and influenced by Achilles Come Down and I Know the End

Will comes out to Mike- some quick dialogue only writing practice with the blorbos

Fanart-

Angsty Will animation

Stranger Things posts Masterlist-

List of current in progress analysis posts

major clue in s4 that Mike is vecna’s next target

Let’s talk a lil abt Mike Wheeler, his depression, and what it means for s5

My iconic Stranger Things HotTakesTM

The REAL fruity four

why canon byler is gonna be a huge win for the queer community (breaking down dumb comments on why byler shippers are “overdramatic” 🙄)

we’re really overlooking how much the painting lie was a huge break in Mike and Will’s understanding of their friendship (aka how it’s definitely gonna blow up in Will’s face later)

Mike’s Basement Beats: When love breaks down- analysis (a look at Mike’s s4 arc)

Mike’s train wreck of a “love confession” actually just confirmed byler is mutual

Mike’s expression right before he starts his monologue is confusion + heartbreak

My perspective on Mike’s monologue when I was watching it as a casual viewer

Mike is sooo getting targeted by vecna in season 5: an essay in screenshots

Still having doubts abt byler bc of the monologue? Don’t worry I gotchu

Using my perspective as a lesbian to prove that Mike Wheeler is gay asf (we been knew but still)

Finn Wolfhard’s acting choices in the first flirty byler scene (you know the one)

More on Finn’s acting choices and style

Another look at Will Byers in the Van Scene (will, Mike, and feeling like a mistake, ft the amazing @heheidks)

Shaggy bowl cut Byers agenda

Some Unhinged van scene byler proof

Byler’s love languages <;3

Byler vol 1 in a nutshell

Byler endgame proof: screenshot compilation

Will’s feelings for Mike have been made a crucial part of the plot and will be addressed properly in s5

a brief look at s4 El and overcoming abuse (I’m soso proud of her omg)

Mike’s gay realization arc is already almost complete and can be broken down into 3 parts (mid s2-s4)

Mike and El already broke up in s4 onscreen (Will just didn’t realize and since we got the breakup primarily through his POV we didn’t notice at first either 👀)

Mike gets a sword in s5 agenda has evidence behind it 👀

Episode 9 lighting parallels/analysis (byler and lumax ft some of my moots)

Mike, Will, and queer realization

Mike and El both associate their romantic relationship with losing their best friend

A quick look at how the show shows Will and Mike’s crushes on each other, and what that means for s5

Dustin and his well meaning but horrible no good very bad gaydar (ft byler being dumb and Lucas being tired)

100% accurate and byler tumblr approved analysis of Mike fans vs Will fans

My delusional and self indulgent but also kinda realistic byler scenario for a season 5 trailer

PSA for byler shippers/stranger things shippers in general (and even just fandom with teenage characters in general) to stop shaming teenagers for having sexual thoughts and acting like it’s abnormal

Mike’s alleged romantic love for El was never actually believable to her

Camera angles, volume 2, and Mike Wheeler (aka an analysis of the subtle transition into Mike POV for season 5)

Stranger Things 4 through the lense of a Shakespeare tragedy

the Wheeler parents: a quick debunking of fanon assumptions and misconceptions

Unhinged bowlcut metaphor (you’ll see lmao)

#hope this helps organize the mess that is this blog 💀💀#will be updating this masterpost regularly #love you guys <3

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pineapplemcclean · 2 years

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i barely use tumblr so im not sure how to use it but i hope this reaches the right audience

this is a post on why I think Mileven is unhealthy/toxic that probably no one is going to see 💀

Anyways I apologize in advance if this has any spelling or grammatical mistakes I'm not going to read all of this when I finish it I'll just post it right away

First off Mike doesn’t know/love El as a person. During his monologue he never mentioned a single personality trait. Nothing about El as a person. And not a single favorite memory- like for example his monologue to Will in s2 where he talks about how they met on the swings. In his monologue he says something along the lines of “I’ve loved you ever since I saw you” that, however, is a lie- he wanted to send her back wherever she came from until he found out she knew something about Will. And when he says “I love you” the vines tighten around her neck. I’m not sure exactly why yet but I have a theory I will delve into later on. “You can fly, you can move mountains” here Mike is appreciating El the Superhero again. Not El as a person. Mike talking about El's powers isn’t romantic. its here that I bring up Millie’s interview about her favorite scene. https://youtu.be/wAMjtRvRQIY

“Mike isn’t loving El like she wants him to” and “Does he truly love her or is she still the superwoman in his mind?” Which implies that Mike has only ever shown love towards El the Superhero. We don't really know if he loves El as a person BUT he called her a superhero during his monologue so….. Mike says he’s never been scared of El before- another lie. For example, when El threw Lucas in s1 using her powers, he was scared of her. Which is completely reasonable, but lying about it in his “love confession”… When he says he’s scared El isn't going to need him anymore he doesn't stutter and his voice is steady (unlike with the rest of his monologue) which means he isn't lying- because Mike and El truly are codependent on each other. And what happens after the monologue? We see El ignoring the topic of their relationship which most Mileven shippers think is simple- they think that now El knows that Mike truly loves her blah blah blah and that she isn't talking to him bc of Max. However, El talked to Mike about Brenner which is a heavy topic for her but she couldn't address the topic of their relationship? which should be obvious? They're going to have a big talk in s5 and its going to be very emotional- possibly a breakup and a talk about their feelings (about time)

Someone also pointed out that this scene contrasts with Max’s whole Vecna moment, because the memories that help Max escape are the memories that visually appear to us, during this scene, the only time we see a memory put to the words that Mike says is the “you were wearing a yellow t shirt in the woods” kind of thing, it gives her a push before the vines tighten more, I believe that this is because everything else that Mike is saying, she can’t put a memory to it, he’s basically just rambling ? nonsense…? her facial expressions, it’s almost as if she’s searching for any like PROOF or memories to go with his words.

To finish the first reason, we genuinely have never seen Mike appreciate El as a person, not just in his monologue but at any point.

Second I want to talk about the “Mike can't express his love bc of his parents” Yet Nancy can? Let me just talk about Stancy/Jancy a bit here and how they're paralleled to Byler Stancy was a toxic relationship because both Steve and Nancy pretended to be people they aren't. After the break up we see both of them get character development. Nancy also started acting like a jerk which is a parallel to how Mike starts treating his friends like shit in s3 while dating El. Mike pretends to be more mature around El. He stops playing d&d and all...and when the Byers move to Cali we see him joining a d&d club. Also, at the end of s3 he apologizes to El for being excited about presents. In s4 we see El lying to Mike about having friends and going to parties, so she can be seen as cool to him. They are both pretending to be someone they aren't. Nancy couldn't say "I love you" to Steve just like Mike couldn't say it to El. And back to the main point “Mike cant express his love bc of his parents” but when its Nancy its bc she loves Jonathan? And actually, Mike having parents who are in a loveless relationship is actually more proof that Mileven is loveless because loveless relationships are something Mike is familiar with so its easier for him to yk be in a loveless relationship. Same goes for El who is used to people appreciating her for her powers only because of the lab.

Something that's kind of similar to what I'm talking about, an example- if you've seen the IT movies then you know Bev and Eddie basically married their parents because bc of their trauma with them (not that Mike's parents' relationship is like traumatic but it obviously affected him)

Nancy has the same parents but why can she say ily to Jonathan without someone telling her to and why can she talk about his personality but Mike can't??

its because Mike doesn't love El and the "from, Mike" is proof enough. because he obviously wrote "from" subconsciously meaning he never thought of writing "I love you" to someone who apparently means the world to him and he loves very much. I mean, it might've not been subconsciously but El's point was good "you cant even write it" because you can easily fake something while writing it I think that's all for reason number 2 (on and also Jancy and Byler have parallels- talking while sitting on a car; Nancy/Mike and Jonathan/Will talking and Nancy/Mike glances at Jonathan's/Will's lips reason number 3 I don't think El is ready for a relationship a controversial take but let me explain "you say El isn't ready for a relationship but then go ahead and ship her with Max" I ship her w/ Max bc she'd treat El better but I don't think it should happen (or that it will) because El has unresolved trauma from the lab and Mike triggered her "what did you do?!". My point is not that you shouldn't ship Mileven, its that I think they shouldn't be canon. "Will is also traumatized" Will's trauma is different and he had more people help him cope with it. El was introduced to so many new things like friendship, love, school, etc. and reason number 5 is that Mike makes El feel like a monster, even if its not on purpose. Even if they love each other they don't make each other feel loved. I think that's all but I'd like to add a bit of a s4 Mileven analysis (with some Byler in it)

In the beginning we see Mike reading El's letter and we're shown how El is doing- we notice that she's lying to him about everyone being nice and about her grades. She ends her letter with "Love, El" when Mike finishes reading her letter he crumbles it, despite being a sentimental type of person- he has (had?) Will's art hung up in the basement.

When he arrives in Cali he looks ugly (sorry i just needed to express my opinion on his outfit) he looks very excited to meet El but when he gets to Will, his childhood best friend, he becomes very... weird. he bumps him on the shoulder instead of hugging him back. this is why the line "Will is acting weird" El wrote to Mike is so important- bc even though Will is the one who loves Mike, he's been acting normal. and everyone is saying its because Mike doesn't want to be friends with Will anymore- yet later on Mike apologized for his behavior and him and Will have been glued to the hip since. so its def not bc he doesn't want to be friends with Will...suspicious Anyways on to the rink-o-mania scene we see Mike and El being happy yk just your usual couple hanging out. However, as it zooms into Will's face we realize the scene is from his pov. And Will is actually an unreliable narrator, meaning this scene might not be as happy as it looks. (someone said that Will was confirmed to be an unreliable narrator but since no one provided a video or article I'm going to prove it in a bit) When Angela enters we see Mike and El skating from her pov but not looking as happy- in fact they look...bored? meaning that they aren't actually happy in the skate ring scene. And about Will being an unreliable narrator: in his pov Mike is ignoring him entirely. However later on Mike confronts Will about how he's been acting meaning Mike was actually paying attention to Will. Anyways you know how the rest of the skate ring scene unfolds. As I already mentioned, Mike makes El unintentionally feel like a monster (and in my opinion he was scared of her here) and he's paralleled to Brenner (which will become a bit important later on). An important thing to note here is that in season 1 El broke Troy's arm. Troy is Will and Mike's bully. He didn't show the same reaction then as he did in the skate ring scene. He was happy/pleased but in the skate ring scene he's angry/scared. ONWARDS the dinner where Mike makes El feel like shit yet again. "She didn't look fine" Jesus Michael that's your gf, why are you being annoying The next day Mike goes to apologize to El who then points out the "From, Mike" and how he was scared of her. The whole argument is about Mike only showing love towards El the Superhero (as MBB said in the interview I mentioned earlier on) and it's important to know he calls her superhero during their fight. Which just makes El feel worse. another important detail is that he blames this whole thing on the "mouth breathers" when Mike is the problem - he's pushing the blame away from himself again (same as in s3 when he asks what he did wrong when he literally lied to El. Meanwhile in both of his apologies with Will he fully takes the blame, saying how he was acting like a jerk. And Mike always knows what to say to Will, but with El he needs someone to motivate him or tell him what to say - Will's speech to him in s4 and Lucas dragging Mike to the mall in s3, meanwhile Mike dragged Lucas over to Will's). El feels like Mike doesn't love her anymore because she lost her powers/she isn't a superhero anymore. wattpad time skip to El's note:

"Dear, Mike I have gone to become a superhero again. From, El" 1. "I have gone to become a superhero again" is in a way saying she's gone to become someone he can love again. 2. "From, El" this screams breakup to me, idk about you guys. And Mike said this fight seemed more adult compared to the rest of the fights they've had (the s3 breakup included, which could possibly mean that this is a serious breakup). He also said it's "a fight you can't come back from". And imo Mike knew El was breaking up with him by the way he was staring at the note. And the word "adult" that Mike used, I think it's important because Caleb says they have a teenage relationship dynamic. teenage relationship. adult fight.

another reason why I think they had an implied breakup is this parallel: Vickie: "I am rambling about my dumb boyfriend when there are people out there suffering" talking about her breakup to Robin. Mike: "No, i..it's stupid, given everything that's going on" Talking about his fight with El to Will.

fast forward to the van scene

If you take Mike from a surface level standpoint some of his scenes flat out don't make sense. For instance, in episode 5, Mike and Will have their heart to heart. Mike says he regrets not being able to say what he wanted to El and that maybe things would be different if he had. Then Will talks about how scary it is to open up to people you care about because they might not like the truth. And Mike agrees. So let's say Mike is surface level. And he's only talking about El in this context. The truth Mike would be talking about in this scenario would be telling her that he loved her back in ep 3- But that doesn't make sense?? El was practically begging Mike to prove that he loved her back in the first few episodes. So in what universe would El not like that truth? Why would Mike think that El wouldn't want to hear that he loved her? And if Mike truly meant everything he said during the finale, why would he not tell her what she wanted to hear back in episode 3? If you love someone and you don't want to lose them, you'd want to get your feelings across and make her feel validated. Even if he can't say it, he could prove it through his actions. Hug her. Kiss her. Hold her hand. Anything to showcase that he loves her. But he doesn't do that. And then when the moment in the finale comes around, he starts contradicting himself. His actions just stop making any semblance of sense when you try looking at it that way. In fact, the script of the van scene released recently. Noah said they filmed it all day. But when he saw the scene play out, he noticed that it was edited to be more subtle in certain areas. Now, there are two important lines that are removed from the final product. One is Will talking about "El" and saying how losing Mike hurts too much. I'm supposing they were just trying to make Will's feelings more subtle here. But the second line removed is from Mike who says that the last time he looked in El's eyes, he saw that she didn't need him/love him anymore. Now, if they were trying to keep Will's feelings a secret, making it more subtle in that area might make sense. But them choosing to remove Mike's line and make him more subtle as a character doesn't make sense unless there's a deeper truth about Mike that they're intentionally keeping hidden from a lot of the audience. That Mike knows El isn't interested in him anymore and that maybe, S5 will have El break up with him again.

then the reunion

Mike and El...don't kiss. Even though they both almost died. Now, we all know El got character development concerning her lab trauma- she disobeys Brenner because she is more than just a girl with powers, she is a human being but he treated her like a monster. this is why I think the fact that Mike is paralleled to Brenner is so important- because he also appreciated her only for her powers. I think they didn't kiss then and there because El realized she won't be happy in the relationship if Mike only appreciates her for her powers.

And the reason why the vines tighten around El's neck when Mike says "I love you" is because she knows he can only say it because she got her powers back. that's my theory at least. Oh Jesus this is- a lot. I really hope I didn't miss anything. Bonus fact: Mike and El being referred to as Romeo and Juliet isn't romantic- Romeo and Juliet are star-crossed lovers doomed to fail. and Romeo actually loved Juliet's sister Rosaline.

also im going to tag this as byler so there's a smaller chance of milevens coming after me

#byler #byler endgame #byler is real #will byers #mike wheeler #will x mike #stranger things #gay as hell #gay #analysis

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fruity-phrog · 2 years

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Here’s what a lot of Milkvan shippers don’t get: Byler shippers don’t just want Milkvan to break up because that would take Mike one step closer to dating Will. We want them to break up because it’s a toxic ship in and of itself.

Mike did love El at some point, and El loved him, but they don’t anymore. They just don’t. El has realized Mike sees her as his superhero, not his hero. Not his. And while Mike doesn’t fully understand why El feels this way, there’s something he’s lost that he hasn’t had since season 3.

We all noticed this, but Mike had to brace himself to tell El he loved her. He had to take a breath and wince before he could say a seemingly adorable line. He didn’t want to say it - he didn’t want to lie to her. I’m trying to keep this post strictly Milkvan but I’ll just quickly say that Will, the person he actually loves, pushing him to say it to El wouldn’t have helped. Anyway, he only told El he loved her when he thought it would save her life. Healthy?

Mike hasn’t changed that much since season 3, when he didn’t like the idea of El going to the mall. He’s still constantly doubting her powers and trying to keep her in safe range, even though everyone - himself included - knows safe range just doesn’t exist anymore. He hasn’t developed that much, and that development would be key to Milkvan working. They can’t give him all that in s5, it’s just too late.

El was so happy when she broke up with Mike. She felt free. She felt energized. She spent the day, before and after the break up, hanging out with a girl she hated before then and had a fucking blast. And they would have stayed broken up, Will and Mike growing closer and El and Max being perfect for each other, if it wasn’t for Lucas’s interfering. I mean seriously, how is El helping them get something from a vending machine her saying she wants to get back together?

And my main thing. My piece-de-resistance. Mike and El were a couple (sort of) in episodes “The Battle For Starcourt” and “Vecna’s Curse”. And you wanna know who else was there? Murray Fucking Bauman. And you wanna know what didn’t happen? Milkvan didn’t get Murray’d. He didn’t look at them and make slightly-snide remarks about their relationship, which he does for every endgame ship he encounters. And yes, he didn’t do that for Byler, but we’re not here to talk about that, are we? Unless you wanna talk about that, in which case I will.

I want Byler to become canon. FUCK I want Byler to become canon. And while I’ll be fucking pissed if it doesn’t, Milkvan breaking up is almost as important. It would show Mike that sometimes half your energy isn’t enough, especially when it comes to relationships, and it would show El that she controls her own destiny. Milkvan staying together is incredible counterintuitive. If the Duffers make Milkvan canon, I hope for their sake they never scroll through Tumblr ever again.

#milkvan #milkvan is bones #mike wheeler #eleven jane hopper #lucas sinclair #max mayfield #murray bauman #byler #elmax #will byers

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chirpsythismorning · 1 year

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So are we gonna talk about how we have to face homophobia on a daily basis online and it has not once been addressed by Netflix or the writers like ever. And it's not like they do not see any of that stuff happening. It's happening basically HD on Twitter.

And the way they do not even bother to say something, even though they were the ones who teased Byler during the whole pride month. Literally, multiple queer fans felt like they received a slap in the face, yet no one said anything regarding the treatment of Robin and Will in this season. And all this happening during the pride month was trash. Never once addressing any of this and the treatment Will got from the show and by the fans... was a choice. Not to mention them constantly fueling homophobia on twitter or queerbaity posts are... a choice.

It's just simply disappointing and makes it harder to respect the writers.

I just want to preface this by saying that homophobia is bad. Obviously. It will always be bad and how I feel about that doesn’t change just because I’m not acknowledging it every time it occurs.

I’ve had asks like this before where I say pretty much the same thing every time, and so I considered not posting this bc I just sound like a broken record.

To be clear, the writers have posted in the past about how fans should be able to ship whoever they want to ship, at a moment in particular when people were hating on byler and non-canon queer ships in general. And so we can’t expect them to come to the rescue every time something is blowing up on Twitter. Otherwise, they would never have a day off.

Twitter is a cesspool and giving attention to it only makes it worse, that’s what it really boils down to. Once you open up that can of worms, it never ends.

It isn’t even just homophobia on there. Every form of bigotry thrives on that platform, where everyday they’re mad about something and demand everyone to confront it or else. And that’s just not healthy. Its not sustainable at all.

And to be clear, all sides on there have really, really toxic stans, including bylers. Not all of them are toxic, but it’s really hard to get by on there unless you can handle seeing that stuff on a daily basis. Some byler discourse on Twitter is a large part of the reason people want to claim all bylers hate El. And it's because of the toxic ship wars on there, where they always take it too far and create division by hating on Will or El or Mike, and then it stretches to the actors and goes on and on. All of that drama is best to ignore for your sanity. Confronting it won’t solve anything. A lot of those people, even when faced with common sense, still choose the road that revolves around hatred and disrespect without any remorse. It’s not worth getting worked up over.

Also want to make clear that the original tweet Stranger Things posted had nothing to do with byler. Shippers on Twitter will make any and every post about their ship and pressure the people running the account to post something. The comments are always filled with all sorts of tweets like that so it’s not just bylers either. This means it arguably could have been anyone that was called out for commenting something unrelated to the post. It just so happens that byler is getting a lot more popular, to the point where they do dominate on Twitter as a platform considering most of the ga doesn't even like milkvan anymore anyways, and a lot more people are open to byler. So I would imagine most of the comments did look something like that.

When it comes to queer-baiting from official Netflix accounts last summer, I do think that the only reason they did that stuff, like make posts with byler in the literal caption on tiktoks, was because it was during an official promotional circuit that focused on byler in the penultimate season. If byler is endgame though they couldn't disclose that, they arguably did exactly what they had to do. They had to refer to it by name to get more people aware of it, but also keep it subtle, and they especially had to drop it post vol 2 because s4 closed off in a way that wanted us to think milkvan was endgame based on the monologue.

The thing about queer-baiting and why it is so fucking shitty, is because it almost always leads no where. They do all of that stuff, with the creators behind the scenes knowing it will never happen. They mock and hype it up and get people psyched, only for it to lead to nowhere. That's how it's always been.

The point of how they are approaching byler, is to give the impression it's like every other queer-bait before, only to flip the switch. The beauty of it, is all of these people that have been wrong before, and were told they were be going to be wrong again, weren't wrong this time. And that's going to be even more satisfying after they pull the rug under those that were telling bylers to know their place and to accept that it's like every other queer-bait. Once and for all when s5 comes out, the roles will switch and it will be much more satisfying than them just laying it all out there at any point in advance super obviously.

Like people who are paying attention, know the message of the show goes against all of those things and those that don’t and insist that doesn’t play a role, are the ones who have to wait to find out, with them tuning until the very end only to realize they were the ones wrong.

And there is a difference between the st writers account, who is often an intern directly in very close contact with the writers, or the writers themselves potentially at any given time. Whereas the official netflix accounts are run by various interns connected to Netflix, with people above them calling the shots for official major posts. Though stuff like replies is often given at the discretion of the person running the account at that moment. Sometimes they say stuff that doesn't land or that was inconsiderate. I'm sure there has been instances of people being fired in the worst cases of stuff going down. But in this case, it really is just a case of fans being chronically online and making everything about ships when it never was in the first place.

Also, in terms of the writers, there is a strike rn so under no circumstances will the writers be tweeting at all, bc that’s the whole point of striking, not participating in writers duties. And that is literally a writers account for Netflix’s Stranger Things.

I also try to keep this rule for myself on here, but believe me when I say, you do not need to follow the crowd and give input into every drama that arises.

We have our own drama over here on tumblr too, so it's not like we're by any means perfect at all times. Sometimes one person says something and suddenly people are saying that a bunch of people are saying that even though it was only one person and now everyone has to give their two cents and you can't go in the tag without being bombarded with the same posts rehashing it from every which angle.

But you can choose to not participate every single time something occurs. You can choose to live your life without reacting to every given thing. That's just a lot better of a way to live mental health wise too. Like I personally don't want to be confronted with a bunch of homophobia in the tag bc one person said something. And that's also why we try to encourage people to just block the sloppy seconds anon, bc most of us don't want to see that in the tag. We come here for appreciation and making connections not giving homophobes a platform to spout their bs.

I will probably make a post about this again inevitably when the next big thing happens.

But just remember, the back and forth in general with these accounts messing with fans in regards to ship wars is far from over (well at least 2 years max).

Also keep in mind, we are on hiatus rn, so anything from ST accounts is going to be related to like press and merchandise outside of the show itself, which we saw with this one today that ignited all of this, was related to a ST game releasing...

When the promotional circuit finally starts, like in the months up to release, that's when you're going to see really intentional promotion that was planned ahead of time, months in advance, by experts and graphic designers working closely with people from the ST production on their vision of what they want to hint at in promotion.

The first promotional post for s5 we can look forward to, is the picture they are bound to post when announcing the first day of filming. With the strike it's hard to know when that will be, but once the strike is over hopefully with a fair deal made for the writers, that post announcing filming will be dropping soon after presumably.

In the mean time lets try to make this a space that isn't like Twitter where everything is so deep and we need to call it out. More often than not it's not that deep and the trolls don't deserve our attention in the first place. The best way to piss them off is to keep having a good time and ignore them. They hate that shit more than anything lol!

#byler #byler tumblr #twitter #st writers #queerbaiting #is bad #but if we're dealing with a straight bait situation...#giving the assumption this is queerbait for as long as they can #is going to make the rug being pulled that much more satisfying to those that have been through this and are going to finally be right #it's revolutionary tbh #and when people inevitably are like genuinely homophobic about the results of the show itself #as opposed to mindless ship wars with the sole purpose of getting a rise out of the opposing side #it will actually mean something to confront it when they are making clear where they stand on things when the show speaks for itself #s5 is going to be followed by press and interviews and cons and a bunch of opportunities for them to call out fans for the rest of eternity #my advice #stay off stan twitter #for your sanity

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