Me, literally in the actual post: In a way, and this is not to diminish some of the writing problems the author has, Ino is a nice representation of how Kishimoto is actually capable of writing a girl with a simple crush on a boy, who still prioritizes friends and comrades above the man she likes. Sakura's behavior, therefore, can't be attributed to Kishimoto not "knowing how to write women", but to him giving Sakura specific characteristics that just happen to be disliked by the fandom. In retaliation, her stans decide to blame such personality traits on his "incapability" to write female characters before giving them the actual relevance they have over Sakura's character.

Them:

This fandom so toxic and cruel and what annoying ? That is come from people that never wirting manga in their life . I can't anymore why people think that they can decided if the present canon not should Happened?? This person he is worked much hard about this his job he is did what he is Want. I think that people in this fandom don't respect him and his job. They are simply ungrateful . No fans and not editors and not studio said to him what to do in his manga . so please leave naruhina fans alone! People angry like we did something wrong. In what we are fault ? We are not did nothing to anyone stop this please we are love Kishimoto and we are will never force on him things that he is not want to do 😢

Blaze

0 notes

I want to write this post about how Sakura is not actually useless and debunk her haters. But then I realize that this is a lot more complicated to unpack. 

I realize that I barely remember the war arc, but I do know she was useful for the entirety of that arc. And also healers are not given much credit. Half of the anti-fandom have the same recycled point they’ve probably heard from Naruto youtube anyway. 

Most of it is from fans who only watched the anime, which makes weird decisions around adapting Sakura’s character. I’ve also seen posts with incorrect translations floating around, and just a slew of people getting all up in arms about Sakura.

Like this one. I can’t find the post now. I snatched it off the post to show folks on discord. 

Fan Translation

VIZ translation

A lot of people reading naruto in this era didn’t read it from official sources anyway. They just read it online on some website. It’s sooo complicated to get into this.

She also doesn’t hit Naruto as much in the manga. She doesn’t have the weird dialogue where she has to pick between Naruto and Sasuke. A lot of these fans really really never ever gave her a chance, it seems. 

Kishimoto’s writing is weird and inconsistent at times. I’d love to pick at his brain to figure out how it all works out. Because there are stretches where he attempts to convey an emotion or a point of some sort, and it’s confusing at best, because he’s not faithful to the essence of the characters conveying it.

His best writing is early shippuden/Early Naruto, and not essentially when he just feels so sick of it. 

Oh, and if people are still hating on her for what she said she was 12, they conveniently forget that Naruto also made fun of Sasuke’s dead clan. Everyone was sooo edgy during genin era. Go give it a read again. It’s a wild era. 

i understand fic writers who look at naruto canon and think ugh i can do better than that, bc ngl i feel the same way sometimes. but unless you actually engage with the characters, the setting, and the author's intentions, youre not gonna succeed.

for instance, most fics, including sasuke-centric fics, frankly dont understand his canon character or why exactly kishimoto failed to communicate his story coherently. bc they almost invariably transform sasuke into an unrecognizable caricature of himself: someone who hates his teammates, hates his family, and (oddly enough) hates fangirls. if your sasuke isnt conflicted between his quest for justice and his loyalty to/longing for his (ex-)teammates, then that's not sasuke. if your sasuke hates his clan and his dad, and doesnt unhealthily idealize his deceased loved ones (e.g. itachi), then that's not sasuke either. and if your sasuke spends his time sneering at his female classmates and bashing fangirls for whatever reason, then that's also not sasuke, that's your misogyny living vicariously through him.

this applies to the sasuke haters too. this should go without saying, but they distort his character far worse than the pro sasuke fandom does. they fail to understand the tragic spiral of his character arc or why it was inevitable. idk if it's due to a simple lack of reading comprehension or childish resentment that sasuke kept on succeeding as an antagonist where the others failed, thus hurting their fragile egos as MC self-inserters.

either way, the sasuke antis consistently strip him of some of his most compelling traits (his initial pacificism and refusal to kill, his self-sacrificing tendencies, his strong sense of justice, his rejection of others' attempts to manipulate him) and assign him flaws that are wildly out of line with his canon character (seeking power for power's sake, excessive cruelty and disregard for life, and of course incompetence bc they refuse to admit he's capable of protecting himself or being correct about things).

whether sasuke is being written by fans or haters, the end result is almost always an OC who just happens to have the same name and appearance as canon sasuke. like if that's what you were aiming for, congrats i guess? but if you want to "fix" canon, then that requires actually caring enough about the original text to understand it

Not very hard to understand sns. At the base they are sakura haters, and want to be with sasuke. Sakura is obviously not an option because she is less powerful than sasuke, so they aren't equal or whatever, hence, she isn't the one they can use. That leaves Naruto since karin can be eliminated by the same logic. Naruto is very, very bad for sasuke. But according to sns, he stands up to him, fights him, and even turns out to be stronger. Hence, perfect for self-insert shipping since they're dynamic fits there easy. Easy to make tropes, situations, etc about sasuke and Naruto, but all these ppl don't understand sasuke one bit, but just like Naruto , they want to own him. I do ship ss, but I have read a lot of top sns during my early Naruto days and comparing it to sns fiction now, it hasn't changed one bit. Most of them are about how sasuke's redemption journey is not at all important, how sasuke's feelings aren't important, he's just a toy for Naruto to get in the end. No travelling for them obviously, since Naruto is a complete nationalist and no one even dares to try and make him hate konoha or realise sasuke's desire for revenge. Little to no hate for hinata, she's used to make sasuke jealous, sakura bashing almost always, sometimes even bashing Sai for no reason at all, hating on team taka/team 7 depending on their interpretation. I've also observed that the threat to their ship is mostly sakura, but never hinata. Hinata is never the problem because they are all self inserting as Naruto, he can have as many people in love with him as they want, but god forbid sasuke may have ambiguous feelings for sakura or they may even have dated in the past. Although hinata is also not treated very kindly as well, she is just used to make sasuke jealous, or for Naruto to reject, and then simply fade into the background. Sometimes she is also bashed, but it's mostly sakura in sns fics. It's funny and sad that no one really understands sasuke, majority of sns, ss , and God the sk and sasuhina shippers , who are the weirdest bunch of them all XD

All of them in general want sasuke to repent for his revenge , for leaving so and so behind, but it's never about them understanding why and how hard it was for him to do so. Sasuke has just become this object to achieve, as if his perspective isn't important at all. Kishimoto has done a lot of things wrong in Naruto , but making sasuke this complex and unreachable for 90% of the series has mostly started these fan wars. Sns love to call sakura obsessed with sasuke for no reason or shallow reasons , but they can't see that Naruto was just as obsessed, and if they can, they can't see just how obsessed they are with sasuke, for no good reason other than the fact that he would look good with their self insert.

This is the problem with maximum pro sasuke ppl on Tumblr as well as outside, they all turn out to be sns , which just makes their entire page a lie, if you are pro sasuke , hate konoha, but turn around and ship sasuke with the number 1 nationalist Naruto, you really do have some issues lol.

I've been in the fandom for a while now, and despite all the losses sns have had to face, they still are trying to find material in boruto to support their self insert ships, and go hysterical when they are beaten by canon ships, most ss because nh has been dry for content lately, it's very fun to watch them try to cancel entire companies like viz, whose translations they often use to discredit sakura at every turn. It's sakura they are the most scared of, both the people in their otp loved her in their lives, hence she must be eliminated at all times. People are this defensive only when they start thinking that they are one half of their otp.

They're so many examples of this on Tumblr where a pro sasuke who is anti ss turns out to be sns, when the sasuke they all adore, the one in shippuden, had no interest in anyone but his desire to avenge the uchiha.

Same problem with sakura x others, to try and diminish sasuke's value in her life is the dumbest shit I have ever seen and makes me instantly abandon a story. Even if she falls out of love, don't make it seem like it was just a crush or sasuke abhors her. There are stories in which sasuke is downright cruel to her even after his redemption, just to villainize him. It's awful to see how little people understand sasuke, and just use him however for the sake of their self insert. It's making me hate fanfiction again, I definitely agree with you, sasuke is mostly character assassinated in these stories, and it's hard to find stuff where his perspective is properly considered, especially in the sns side of the fandom.

This was a lot to take in, but I can see your point.

Tag Game (look at me Ma' first participation in a tag game! 🎉 )

@wlwsakura I had to do a triple take seeing my name 😵‍💫, I am flattered at the tag pass.

Three Ships:

-Edeleth (female Byleth Eisner and Edelgard Von Hresvelg, Fire Emblem: Three Houses) they stole my heart back in when the game dropped with everything about them when shipped together. (Being vague on purpose to avoid spoilers for the Crimson Rose/Black Eagles route for any who may want to experience it blind) In specific female Byleth getting some exclusive scenes with Edelgard, and how their story shifts with the added element of a female Byleth in connection to certain story points that are kind of not as poignant in other routes or ships really makes me ship it more compared to male Byleth and Edelgard.

-Supercorp (Kara Zor El/Kara Danvers/ Supergirl and Lena Luthor from 2015's Supergirl) I have spilled my guts about them a fair amount already. The wlw ship that helped me realize I was not as straight as I thought because of how fond I was of certain same sex friends. They were so couple coded, and it really stinks (older) supercorp shippers went through what they went through by the network, show runners, comic book anti woke mob, other Supergirl TV show fans, other lgbtqi+ aligned people, and homophobes for calling Lena and Kara what they were.

-I wanted to try showing variety for my ships into bl/mlm or hetero ships, but I got to end with InoSaku (Ino Yamanak and Sakura Haruno from Naruto).

I got so much going on with this ship on some different layers.

Way back when I was introduced to Naruto via the anime, I was not at all a fan of Sakura. Looking back I might have been best described as a "Sakura Hater", but having done some growing and having been reminded of Sakura as a female character in a shonen all this time later, I now have realized how unfair I was being to this fictional character for things well out of her control (Kishimoto's bad writing, how women characters are usually treated in shonen animes, served with a side helping of internalized misogyny on my part).

The realization at all the unnecessary hate at a fictional character who couldn't fight the tropes she was writen with made me re evaluate Sakura, and I realized she isn't so bad. No worse than any other Rookie 9.

Along side that re analysize I realized how gay-rivals-to-lovers coded Sakura and Ino are, and how much of a missed opportunity they were. So now they haunt me.

First Ship Ever: hard to remember but either Sanae Ozora and Tsubasa (Captain Tsubasa) or Ranma and Akane (Ranma 1/2)

Lats Song:

Last Movie: Tales of Vesperia: The First Strike

Currently Reading: No books, but I have been meaning to read an auto biography book on the join Korean team composed of South and North Korean players from the 2018 Winter Olympics, I am currently reading the fanfictions: "The Pieces of me (cling to you)" (supercorp) by @wolfie-bee, re-reading "Thief-Nin Sakura" (Inosaku) by Hemerodromus while waiting on the next chapter of "A Dose of Venom" in the Mithridatism series by Androgyninja, and finally "Wednesday and the Nightshade Girls" by Onehitwonder13.

Due to tech limitations I can't link the other fics, sorry.

Currently Playing: FFXIV and Pokemon Scarlet

Currently Watching: One Piece Live Action

Currently Consuming: How-to Fix Tech guides

Currently Craving: some sense of normalcy or less anxiety

People I want to know better but don't have to participate: @casualkoalatea @weissaddams @daneicole @senshi-9 @coffeeshib @nakamatoo

The Sakura fandom bring on all the hate the fandom gets themselves. On twitter there was a fan who's still watching through all of Naruto and was a fan of Sakura. Now she prefers Hinata and changed her pfp to Hinata instead of Sakura. Sakura fandom starts attacking her, both personal attacks and attacks on Hinata, mind you she's 15 and had 30y sending her hate. So now in retaliation she's posting anti-sakura memes. Now they're mad she's 'one of those Hinata stans' -_-' you reap what you sow.

It's always been like this like in the fandom as a whole Sakura was never well liked, but Sakura fans started attacking Hinata and her fans early on just cause of their ship. Then that extended to all the other female characters cause lets face it they are all better then Sakura personality wise. Or though Sakura was disliked people didn't start properly hating her till her fans started harassing others.

It grew especially bad after part 2 started and then worsened more during Hinata's confession for both the manga and anime was released. Sakura fans went completely haywire after that hence why more anti Sakura memes appeared after the anime Pain arc.

Like I know many Sakura fans who stopped being Sakura fans due to how other fans act. There are even a few who were fans of both Sakura and Hinata who just couldn't like Sakura anymore cause she just got hate for also liking Hinata.

Then there was Lady GT she was a NaruSaku artiest but Sakura fans kept harassing her to replace Kishimoto and change the ending that she was driven out of the fandom.

Sakura fans do more damage to their fandom then her haters ever do.

who are your other naruto faves besides madara ?

Mmmh...I like a lot itachi as long as he is considered as a villain or anti-villain at best. Sasuke really good character, it's Madara without testosterone (no offense but he is just 16).

But outside of the Uchiha I like Gaara the part when he tried to talk to Sasuke and cried for him because he understands what he is going through just gives me chills. Neji was so promising and we have been catfish... Tsunade I just love her, Kakashi& Gai classic who hate them? Lee was incredible in part one, also scammed in Shippuden. Ino's character could have made her a main character instead of Sakura. She got team spirit, she really cares about friendship, even if she is obsessed with boys (like most of 12 yo girls let's be honest) she accepted rejections and move on. too bad her skills are so weak. She can literally break her neck if people doesn't catch her if she falls. Hinata as well her storyline touch me (trying to thrive in a shinobi world will you are miscast for the role)

There is also some characters that I love to hate. Their characters and motives are so accurate it's as if Kishimoto is talking about real life people like Danzo is sooo good. We all knows a Danzo in our life. A coward guy motivated by jealousy and envy. He is ready to do anything, walking over corpses, coming inside every drama for power. And when he got the power he lost it almost immediately because even if he is strong physically he is so weak mentally, he doesn't have this leadership sparkle. Also Tobirama, he is the definition of how xenophobia starts. The main reason I think he is so clinically scared of Madara is because first he knows he killed his brother so hard to sleep well at night with this guilt. And secondly Tobirama doesn't like display of emotion, from others or his. They both share the same analytical and stern personality so Tobirama sees in Madara what he could be if he doesn't control himself. Madara is a mirror of himself. I don't know if you ever had haters in your life but often it's always for a emotional and irrational reason that they project on you what they hates about themselves, and Tobirama is the perfect example.

SOMEONE COME GET THEIR WRITER

Bruh the person who wrote this never read Naruto and just watched filler and the movie. SCREENRANT COME GET YOUR HOME BOY. Get your facts straight and do some research

Gender as excuse of good writing in female character(s)

1.All men are suck to write perfect female character(s)

2.Only women can write perfect female character(s)

I always see this excuse and reason of the quality of female characters in fiction. Most of viewer thinks that men are suck to write female character because of the characters are “too feminine, too emotional and has love interest”,and only women that can write perfect female character.

I will said, using gender of the writer or creator its a weak excuse about bad writing in female character. It was the writers/creators fault because they fail to balance the character to be likable for both males and females viewer. If they feel they are so lousy to write a female character, they should make some research to the other media about how to make a good female character or asking for someone who able to balance the character for both genders. You can do some research to popular media which is have good female character, that can become your main idea how to write them.

Those excuse was born due to Kishimoto statement that he uses to as excuse why he can’t make perfect female character in NARUTO because of he is a man. Which leading the viewer think that all male or shonen media creators unable to make a perfect female character due to the main target of the story is “only for boys/males”. I not deny that men can be lousy writer and act like sexism, but once again. . . being a men it’s not the reason why he was so lousy. He not only bad in writing on female character, but also most of the character suffer the same things due to he has no good idea how to make some development of the character or story, resulting Kishimoto always pull so many Ass-pull for plot demand. 

I will bring Stephenie Meyer, the writer of Twilight. If you think “Only women that can create good female characters”, go on and read this. Twilight is no-sense not only because of the story, but also the characters also bad. Bella Swan Cullen, she is main character, but she is lousy character because she so boring, pathetic and unlikable, She supposed to be our audience surrogate and SMeyer claim she is weak because she is human and relatable character. It’s not only Bella, but also most of the character suffer same things and we have Renesmee, a poster child of the ultimate terrible character that create by Smeyer and the ultimate mary sue. SMeyer also shown to be sexism even though she is freaking a female.

Ironically, there are lot of good female character that is write by men. They can make it because they want the female character is likable for both male and female. Strong and good female character is not about “Throw you feminine side and be a savage man-with-boobs + man haters”, but it’s about they can become their own character but still has feminine side that can make them likable. Not all of them must be a fighter, there are some non-action girl female character that can be strong and good female character in their own sides. Make them having love interest not always make them weak and stupid, you can make it as their motivation to grow and develop their character.

Forgive me if my English is so bad ^^

Kishimoto:

*draws Naruto and Hinata going out on dates*

*draws them raising 2 kids*

*draws them living together*

Antis: wtF Is ThIs fAn ArT????????

Kishimoto:

Sasuke he is sweet ?? 😂 Wtf Shut up I said that NaruHina and Sasusaku they are not the same things!!! Naruto he is not refer to Hinata like trash and this what Sasuke did to Sakura

you sorry that those dumb label executives convinsted Kishimoto to make the both of you the exact opposite of what you two where? just for the sake of two girls how know net to nohting about you as people ? sory bitch NaruHina she is good ship and she wirth perfect😠

Shut up Naruhina, unlike Sasusaku, is not a forced ship and it is clear that no one interfered with Kishi's work and certainly not the content managers

What this meaning how know nex to nothing about you as people?? NaruHina is cute ship and I happy that she is canon!!

And for the sake of another generation where everything will supposedly "get fixed" towards the end?? What is this bullshit please get a life we are fucking in 2023 so hard get the fact that Kishimoto wanted NaruHina??🥹❤️

All of which comes at the cost of both of you're ideals dreams and most importantly you're personalities / character development??? Omg bitch you should to makes manga from yours before you even talk. to Hinata's character have much personalities and development

If Sasusaku is worst is not the problems of NaruHina!!😡😡

Imagine having so much internalized misogyny that you belittle Hinata’s character to being nothing but tits and having such a one dimensional view of her character to see her nothing more than that. Imagine deeming her as a irrelevant, forgettable side character yet having the energy to write paragraphs of how much you hate her and her boobs. I can’t make this up. I’m starting to think is it Kishimoto that was the sexist one or is it this disgusting toxic ass fandom?

Whatever you say to help yourself feel better won’t change that fact that Hinata is the least sexualized character in canon. Most of the time every inch of her skin was covered up. Even in The Last the most skin she shows is on her arms. But toxic Hinata antis will always blame her for having big boobs without fail. And a girl character can’t have big boobs cause that means she’s made for sex and nothing else. Hinata haters absolutely disgust me for having this mindset I pray they get some help.

This girl was disowned by her family, her father treated her like shit to the point she developed anxiety and inferiority issues. Her own cousin hated her and tried to kill her all in her childhood. Despite that she still managed to overcome her obstacles become stronger, and become inspired to be the best she can be while still staying humble and kind. But no, let’s talk about her boobs and her boob fanservice that never existed.

Sakura haters: Sakura should have had less screentime! She interferes every important character's development! If you round up her presence, more than 90% of the times we see her in the entire series, she's basically completely useless, both to anyone and to the plot.

Me:

Lol, Half of these idiots are just butt-hurt that their own FAV character wasn't significant enough to Kishimoto to give them enough Screentime.

And and the other half are the people who ONLY WATCH A SERIES FOR ACTION SCENES, not for the ACTUAL STORY or the CHARACTERS.

Just because she didn't have a huge load of fight scenes (Though,She was BADASS in the fight scenes that she got), doesn't mean that she was not significant to the story.

How can she be insignificant to the story, when she was one of the most important people in the life of both male protagonists. And her absence definitely would have made a significant difference, because all these characters -

(AND THERE ARE MORE)

- would be dead without her.

So, basically, without Haruno Sakura -

Two of the main characters - Naruto and Sasuke will be dead, after their final battle.

Everyone will still be stuck in Infinite Tsukoyomi.

Naruto Series wouldn't have a happy ending.

The Last movie won't have it's hero and heroine. Since, they are both dead.

The Gaiden Manga won't exist.

All those post-manga Novels won't exist cuz all the characters are still stuck in infinite Tsukoyomi.

None of those Anti-Ships will sail, since all characters will be turned into white Zetsus eventually.

Boruto's mom and dad and Sarada's dad would all be dead. So, even The Boruto series won't exist.

So, Now, Who is insignificant and Useless to the people and as well as the plot?

After seeing all the posts abt how sasuke leaves sakura and salad-chan by anti ss and sakura haters , even after almost a decade of them being canon is just fucking depressing really. Do ppl not understand sasuke at all?? Man's lost his whole clan in one night, by the hands of his brother , who he practically worshipped and not expect him to have a few screws loose ? IRL , even losing one family member ruins your life forever and he was what ? 7? Have some empathy goddammit. His going above and beyond to make sure his family is safe from any threats and he doesn't have to go through the pain of losing everything kept him away , despite of the fact that he had to miss his only daughter's childhood. Sakura is a victim of the misogynistic mindset of most Naruto fans so ofc they don't care to understand her but Sasuke has always been a complex character, but even after reading 700 chaps ,ppl still can't understand his motivations is srsly f'ed up . Sometimes I feel sorry for kishimoto .

Thank you for always being unbiased abt the ridiculous questions you are asked and restoring faith that the Naruto fandom is not hopeless. You're amazing ❤️❤️✨✨

Do ppl not understand Sasuke at all??

Short answer - No they don't, but thanks for the kind words ^_^

That anti-sasuhina is down criminal for hating on creative works but ... there are some sasuhina fans that bullied a friend of mine (we're both on sasuhina fandom) some members are just absurd in their headcanons that we can't have another.

I’m not saying that there aren’t any SasuHina fans that aren’t downright vile and wretched. I know because I myself have encountered them too, but I hate this idea that the Naruto fandom - particularly the SasuSaku fandom - perpetuates when it comes to SasuHina:

that we’re all comprised of Sakura Haruno and/or Naruto Uzumaki haters (when some SH shippers love and treat them with more care than Kishimoto could ever dream of); that we’re all art thieves or that we don’t condemn art thieves (when there are art thieves in every single fandom ever made and that, contrary to stupidly popular belief, we actually do condemn plagiarism); that we all ship SasuHina out of spite towards canon (when most SH shippers are multishippers, never mind that some of us just like what we like without thinking about what is and isn’t canon, and even if we did ship SH out of spite, why does it matter when it doesn’t directly affect or harm anyone); that we just loves us some adultery/infidelity plotlines, or whatever other inane nonsense they seem to pull out of thin air, when that couldn’t be any further from the truth if they ever bothered to actually search for a decent SasuHina fic.

There are all sorts of shipping fandoms within the Naruto fandom that do this, but somehow, it’s only exclusive to SasuHina and we’re all labeled and painted with one brushstroke as the worst of the worst, by every stretch of the imagination, when the ship and fandom are literal blips on the radar in comparison to other fandoms.

It’s a shame that your friend was bullied, even worse that it was over something as harmless as shipping, but this sort of behavior is not exclusive to the SasuHina fandom, and I’m tired of us being generalized like we all are. The same thing can be said for SasuSaku or literally any shipping fandom within the Naruto fandom; in fact, the bullying from anti-SasuHina folks is so awful that we can’t even upload our fics onto AO3 or fanfiction.net without some douchebag leaving an unwarranted, disgusting comment under our stories before proceeding to tell us to kill ourselves because we deigned to write about a ship they dislike. Twitter is crawling with these kinds of people to the point where they tried to ruin SasuHina month - an event that’s been going on for more than a decade, mind you - for no other reason than to be assholes, because Hinata is “a big titty monster with an ugly husband” and Sasuke is “Sakura-sexual that doesn’t have eyes for a weakling like Hinata.” It’s all sick stuff.

As for headcanons: we can all believe whatever we want to believe, and the only way our headcanons can affect someone else is if we want it to. Hell, my headcanon is that Sasuke and Hinata would’ve understood one another on a level that far exceeds the relationship he has with Sakura had Kishimoto ever allowed them to interact with each other, platonically or romantically. I staunchly believe in it, no matter how stupid or absurd anyone thinks it is, no matter how much anyone disagrees with it, and no one can convince me otherwise, and it shouldn’t bother anyone that I do believe it to the point where they feel like it’s okay to insult me about it, because it doesn’t impact anyone’s life in any way, shape or form. And that goes for you anon: you can have whatever headcanon you desire.

I said it before and I’ll say it again: we cultivate our own experiences on the internet. Some of us like to torture ourselves by intentionally looking up stuff we know will piss us off, but at the end of the day, we are in control of what we do and do not want to see; and if something as small and insignificant and harmless as a headcanon over a mf crack ship can rile a person up so bad that they feel the need to bully and bash real life human beings, then they need to gtf off the internet and go touch some grass, because it’s never that serious.