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reileinaxiu · 2 years

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How I became Anti Jiang Cheng/Wanyin and Anti Jiang in General

Fair warning/s:

Dramatic story sharing. MDZS meta that blur with some fanon pet peeves. Jiang family bashing (yup includes YZY, JWY, JFM, and even JYL). Lengthy story/experience sharing. Some cursing/foul language, okay a lot of cursing that I censored might have missed just in case. Some ranting I guess. And maybe some leaps in logic. Chaotic writing.

So long story short:

I've read a fic with the JC bashing tag, enjoyed it and browsed and read more content about it and I was thoroughly anti JC by the end of it all.

An example is

"All will be well when the day is done" by abCEE. If you haven't read it I recommend it if the Lan clan still hasn't been ruined in your eyes.

Long story not so short:

Okay as you all might know or not know, I was introduced to the MXTX fandom through a fanfic crossover and entered through the donghua.

When I watched the donghua I was sort of indifferent to the Jiang family as a whole. I thought YZY was just this super stern drill sergeant type of woman. Maybe unfair to WWX because of her own bias towards his heritage. JFM was this timid person in front of his wife who doesn't want to get into conflicts. JWY was this broken grieving person after the Lotus Pier Massacre. And JYL was this mother/sister role model that had an unfortunate end.

I did not like them(probably never will at this point), I did not hate them (I should have hated them more), thought they were developmental to WWX as a character (still true but for a completely different reasons). But that was it, they were characters that had fulfilled a role.

Oh what a foolish uninformed lamb 🐑 I was back then.🥲 The donghua did not even begin to skim the surface of it all. Or maybe it did in an artistic license type of view and it was the kind people on the internet who analyzed the story and the original work that just pointed out to me what was obvious now. 🤔

Thank yous especially to: @flautistsandpeonies ,

@jiaoji2 , @withthewindinherfootsteps , @ladypfenix, @ninjakk and many more that I might have missed or yet to discover. Your mxtx content are entertaining and enlightening.

And thank yous to your works on AO3: Hauntcats, Karmiya, FlautistsandPeonies, Vrischika, miixz, glitteringmoonlight, justdoityoufucker and many many more great writers out there.

I definitely 😁 recommend their works.

Their works and posts have opened my eyes. 👀 And many others who I might have missed.

This was how knowing more both ruined and saved my love for MDZS.

It started when I began delving for fanfic on ao3, after finishing the donghua. Naturally, I began with the fics with the most Kudos, so I set my filters with the most words or the most Kudos along with the WangXian tags (Lan Wangji/Wei Wuxian).

Lo and behold one of the top fics at that time was a Jiang Wanyin centric time travel fic that I shall not name but bury deep within my reading history/bookmarks. I do not want to horrify you guys too much who are anti JC like me but the short synopsis was JWY travels back in time and fully supported WWX 🤢 throughout the Sunshot Campaign doing all the the things JGY pointed out in the Guanyin Temple incident getting a happy ever after of everyone lives(even JGY 😰) and noone dies(except mostly the Wen Sect not the Dafans) and JWY marries WQ 🤮.

Yes. I can't believe myself to have thought that was actually good. I got ulcers just thinking about it 🤢. What's worse 😱 is that I've read through several similar fics with JWY as a good brother, anger misunderstood trope and thought nothing of it at the time.

One of the worse of the worst were my ignorance when reading fics with side JWY/LXC tag.☣️🤮 If I knew I would have never touched any of these fics. But I absorbed the MDZS content through various media sources so my understanding was obscured at best and completely reconceptualized at worst. I hope my realization wasn't too late that I ended up reading about a homophobe in a same-sex relationship.

My poor ignorant self,😔 I forgive you for ever thinking any of those were acceptable homage to the masterpiece that is MDZS. Alas those fics in my read history will be part of a dark past that I might visit some day again only to treat it as the radioactive ☢️ toxic waste it truly should be handled as.

Don't get me wrong. It doesn't make any of those God awful plot devices better but at least those fics were still very entertaining and I appreciate all the work and effort the author had put in to writing them despite their uh...😦 misconstrued outlook on the actual canon personalities of the characters. Some of those fics were really long and well-written at least. So I find it a shame their great writing skills have gone in this direction.

Maybe 🤔 if I read those as extremely, extremely OOC then I guess they could be slightly acceptable. But till today there are plenty similar fic being written out there, and published everyday. I must sometimes cope by completely erasing JWY or any OOC Jiang from my mind whilst reading these types of mistagged fics. OOC JC tag should really be common so I can filter them out of my searches. I will always be grateful for ao3's sort and filter system.

Another, when exploring the fandom at first was that I was intrigued, amused and even confused 🤔 by all the controversy. On youtube, there were content creators fawning over JWY. So hey, I thought he seemed like a decently popular character.

Then someone pointed some things out to me and I was like " OMG 😱 What sort of deranged sick scum is this person and why the f*** out of all the villains that got their karma he still lives with a position of power".

Then I realized again after reading more mdzs meta, "Almost everyone in the Cultivation World except WangXian, the juniors(of every sect), WN, WQ, LQY and maybe NHS at some point are all corrupt assholes that deserve some sort of karma still lives with positions of power" 😱😱😱

So yeah. One of my problems when identifying good not OOC fanfics was because tags like the good sibling jc, yunmengbros reconciliation, etc.😖 was normalized by a lot of writers that other writers started referencing OOC fanfics as the true personality of those characters. That's why a newbie like me entering the fandom just binge read anything that was popular at the time and thought that it actually somehow corresponds to the original work. I am sometimes tempted to unsubscribe from certain MXTX content creators because they are JC stans. But I am conflicted cause they make really good WangXian content as well 😰.

For example:

Like when writers completely disregarding WWX's most important character traits to fit him into an OOC template @withthewindinherfootsteps discusses this very soundly and points out WWX's core philosophy. Writers have gone to create completely new characters and stamped them with the same name. They have lots of reblogs and discussion with this particular post

Maybe it's because I haven't read the entirety of the original work yet (I've only watched the donghua, the cql, followed the manhua, and skipping to favorite scene in thenovel translations) but further evidence pointed out by readers of the original work had thoroughly converted me. I do not commend any of the Jiang Family's treatment of WWX.

Feel free to skip to the rabbits if you prefer not to read some of these heavy criticisms about the Jiang Family and some cursing. Oh and maybe a bit of conspiracy theory meta.

Let's begin with this literal raging b*tch, YZY.

YZY was a child abuser, a hypocrite, and liar.

"What do you mean what do we do?! Can't you see yet? They came here prepared. Today's fight couldn't have been avoided. Soon afterward there'll be herds of those Wen-dog arriving. Leave first!"

"Shut your mouth! It's all because of you little...!"

-Exiled Rebel Scans Chapter Poisons (3)

These lines had been itching at me from the very beginning so... This was the Lotus Pier Massacre. A lot of others (particularly those who stan her) might think it was a sad heroic sacrificing moment as a mother that made a lot of people misconstrue YZY's true nature. She was neither self-sacrificing nor a mother.

She knew. She logically knew that the Wens were prepared and the fight couldn't have been avoided yet she still had the absolute gall to blame WWX of all the people present just because she can and just because she saw him beneath her. After punishing WWX herself as an act of 🤬 subservience to the Wen Clan she couldn't admit it that she herself was the one that escalated the entire situation to the Wen's advantage when WLJ taunted her about the supervisory office. She made everyone including the children to fight in that bloodbath just so her pride as a lady of a great sect remain unquestioned only saving her child and asking the disciple she abused mentally, emotionally and physically to give his life for JWY's sake. And look where it got her. If you ask me now, I'd say she totally deserved that humiliating death and WN should have left her and JFM's body to rot compared to my tragic first impressions.

JFM is as much as an abuser as YZY was. He was an abuser through neglect, and some form of exploitation. A lot of context clues lead to YZY regularly punishing WWX excessively. It's never really mentioned that JFM stopped any of these especially since it is most likely those punishments were handed indiscriminately without just cause other than YZY's hate for WWX.

Shown in the Lotus Pod Extra where it's only WWX who gets punished despite every other disciple doing the same thing. Punished with a whip a that!😨 And that was just an Everyday probably casual occurence in the summer.

The exploitation I have less evidence on that but from what I can understand (or don't) is that a disciple of a sect is more or less an employee and that they at least have some sort of regular stipend besides the facilities, housing and education given to them, otherwise why bother to become a cultivator of a sect when your financially challenged. I'm sure there's at least a few disciples who would send money back to their families because a cultivator's job has some monetary benefits that attracted them to Cultivation sects.

(Ps. Someone argue the flaws in my logic or support it with further evidence that you can find, I'd be grateful)

This isn't the case for WWX though. From the novel it was said that WWX explored the markets in Yunmeng and took whatever he pleased because the locals knew to send the bill to Lotus Pier and maybe he got an allowance that only equates to pocket money. It could be seen that he was well taken care of at least financially.

But from my point view its an indirect form of exploitation. This could be seen as WWX not having his own money to spend for himself making him monetarily dependant on the Jiangs generosity (which was barely existent). It made WWX all the more differentiated from the other disciples who were compensated for their rendered services. Especially since he was made the head disciple at such a young age he should have gotten a comparatively larger paycheck(ancient china payrolls) maybe even equal to the senior disciples because he takes on a teaching job.

When WWX was in the Burial Mounds with the Wens I don't think he had his own assets to claim and fall back on when JWY removed him from the sect. He was one of the key figures to victory in the Sunshot Campaign don't tell me he wasn't properly compensated for his contributions? If someone out there thinks that he gave his spoils of war to the Sect, then f*** the Jiang Clan, I call fraud and exploitation.

That's right folks! Lotus Pier was equivalent to a Japanese Black Company! Modern laws, on child labor and treatment addendums aside, at least in regards to WWX that is. Not only was WWX put to work in abhor conditions (abused; verbally and physically) he was also barely compensated, if not at all, for his services. YZY didn't make it any better siting unreasonable excuses of immeasurable debt that WWX took to heart. JWY also follows her mother's footsteps even when she died he also imposed this debt on WWX even when WWX already went above and beyond what stipulates on what a head disciple or even regular disciples owe to their sect. I could really care less how JFM didn't want to upset his wife or some other excuse, he is Sect Leader! He couldn't have not known what was going on. This has got to be some form of exploitation. 😡

I should write a separate post for all the things messed up about JWY. But to sum it up he expected WWX to abandon his moral code to pander to his sect leader position and Sect's reputation and leave to the Cultivation World's bloodlusts what was essentially a village full of civilians, children or weakened cultivators. He blamed WWX for JYL's death when he clearly witnessed what actually happened, it wasn't WWX who landed the killing blow(WWX even killed that stupid attacker the moment that happened, JWY saw that as well). He went on torturing to death anyone who slightly resembled WWX or was suspected of practicing unorthodox cultivation (keywords on slightly resembled and suspected never proven or justified) for years! Also hellbent on torturing and killing WWX in his second life by using his fears and guilt and that d*mn whip he inherited from his b**** of a mother. And he is an overall bitter and unpleasant character to be in the presence of. I could keep going on and on because there's a whole lot more and there is not enough words to describe how much of a terrible person he was by the end of the book.

Lastly, there is JYL. 🤨She wasn't very significant as the person WWX made her out to be. She wasn't a bad person but she also didn't make any strides to be better or do good. She always tried to make compromises but it was usually for the sake of others especially JWY and at the cost of WWX because she viewed him as being capable of carrying any burdens with a smile and not as a person that struggles or gets hurt by superficial or personal remarks. A peacemaker, timid like her father, avoiding conflicts instead of actually solving them. She claimed WWX a brother during the Phoenix Mountain Hunt and demanded an apology in the name of her sect but that all crumbled like a sandcastle on the beach and forgotten as dust in the wind when JZX confessed publicly and she secluded herself in her happy little married domestic life.😤 Either she was just an oblivious fool just like her husband and would have caused WWX's death by asking him to stand down when he was clearly being attacked or she really believed everything would go well if everyone calmed down or something. Or she was just incredibly gullible to the point of trusting her marital sect that repeatedly put down WWX. She is like LXC in this regard, and I have a lot of negatives and barely-there positives about him as well.

What frustrates me in fanfics with her in it is that she acts like both her marital sect or natal sect could never be in the wrong and that it should be WWX who should adjust is behavior when they were literally trying to kill him.

Is it appropriate to rant about other fics that pissed me off on tumblr? I won't cause it feels rude on some level.

Also I hate the line she said about WWX being born with a smiling face. That's like putting unrealistic expectations on WWX's head. Just because he can bare a lot of things with a smile doesn't mean he cannot get hurt? Newsflash putting up a smiling front is just one way WWX protected himself emotionally from all the rumors and vitriol from YZY. I know I'm being overly harsh but I can't help but feel infuriated. WWX is a strong person for putting up with the Jiang's bull****, horse****, dog**** whatever **** I can think of under the sun and still manages to be an inherently good person but that doesn't really justify everything that was done to him.

🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇

@righteousinadversity sums it up pretty well WWX's sufferings in life and a good chunk of that list is because of the Jiangs or could be traced back to the Jiangs.

If these realizations weren't enough to get me to go anti Jiang Family, I'd be wondering where my common sense went. I became extra wary of those fics tags with something like Good parent YZY & JFM🤬, Good sibling JC 🤮, Yunmengbros feels🙄, and a surprisingly eye watering amount of word vomit. 🤢

This doesn't mean I condemn all the fics out there that don't adhere to canon personalities even the ones I've already read. If the ficwriter was reasonable enough in writing a life altering event or tagging that the characters are going to act OOC. Then sure I might read a modern AU where JC is a reasonably less asshole of an adopted brother. Or an AU where the JWY and JYL try to makeup for their parents wrongs etc. I could probably stomach it with minimum nausea. Still doesn't mean I have to like it, I am just a poor deprived soul that seeks to consume as much mdzs media in my free time.😔

Although Post-canon fics where WWX or LWJ get along with JWY, 😑 yeah I'm drawing the lines where lines need to be drawn. I might make the time to delete a lot of bookmarks from my archives.

The only thing that saved my love for MDZS was WangXian and that speaks for itself because there's a lots of scummy characters (scummy as irl people, they were perfectly fine characters that drove the plot) and WangXian happens to overturn all those flaws because they are the exact opposite to such toxic relationships and toxic people. Plus just because I bash the Jiang Family so much doesn't mean I should stan WWX for the novelty of getting behind the hero or protecting a victim.

It's because WWX is genuinely a good person that I will stan him with all my squishy beating heart🫀!

He sees injustice and seeks to correct it. He had literal life costing wrongs done to him and he does not seek further resentment . He knows not to forgive and not to forget but also knows when to let go. And LWJ learned a lot from WWX and he became his moral compass. God 🤩 they are just so good together, good for each other, and good for everyone.🥲

May they forever ♾️❤️ be a happy couple.🥰

The rest of the trashy cultivators of the Cultivation World can get eaten by the Xuanwu for all I care. 🙄#turtlefood

I might get started about how I came to dislike the Lans in general or wished fiery deaths for most of Cultivation World. But that's for another time.

Is it hypocritic of me to continue reading these awful OOC Jiang fics? Maybe a little. 😐

Does it take me away from potentially great reads?

On my sane days I'd avoid them like WWX avoids dogs. If I'm feeling curious or just really hoping to find something fresh to read, I'd suck it up and pretend the poorly characterized Jiangs are florid mouthpieces used by the author that I can probably forget and ignore.😖

I think I have the same problem with Postcanon fics where WWX gets along with his in-laws. I read them ignorant of how the original work actually ended. Now I despair at how awful my reading history looks and I became very critical of the type of fanfics I presently enjoy.

Taking a page out of @FlautistandPeonies

Jiang family stans don't shit my post. I have literally tagged this anti-everything I can think of the first few lines were literally in big font titled "How I became anti JC"

Fellow mdzs meta readers come at me with gentle criticisms or discussions or comments (emphasis on gentle please 🥺, I'm a sensitive soul that easily loses confidence)

I got the courage to post this after reading a fic with YZY being her petty bitchy self. It was gloriously infuriating that I console myself with the WangXian ending. I might recommend that fic after it's gotten more chapters out (I don't want anyone getting conniptions from the cliffhanger) along with other anti Jiang Family fics.

#How I became anti jc #How I became anti jiang family #How I became anti cultivation world #mdzs #modaozushi #anti jc #anti yzy #anti jfm #anti jyl #anti jiang family #some lan sect bashing #How I floundered through the mdzs fandom at first #wei wuxian #lan wangji #Wei Wuxian's struggles #WangXian #I love wangxian so much 😭#Dramatic story sharing #Long rant #mdzs meta #Mdzs fanon pet peeves #Some author and Tumblr user recommendations #am I hypocritic? Sometimes #Was some of the content hypocritic? probably #Point out my flaws in the conspiracy theories or add evidence #I'd be grateful either way #Fellow mdzs meta readers come at me with gentle criticisms or discussions or comments #Emojis are great and people should use them more often to highlight their words 🐱#I got the courage to post this after reading a fic with YZY being her petty bitchy self #lots of cursing

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lu-bun · 2 years

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I really don't like jc. Like, stans are always saying how horrible he grew up, and yeah guys parents sucked but he was still a rich young master and then they use it as an excuse for how he treats WWX?? Who went through the same but worse things to?? And then they bitch about WWX breaking his promise but so what? He did it to save innocent lives that you know... jc knows about and kills.

Yea, gotta disagree with jc stans if you like him that's fine but still. He's not just an angry grape.

#jc stans dont interact #anti jiang cheng #anti jiang family #jiang cheng bashing #wei wuxian #mdzs #the untamed #sorry about this i just keep seeing jc stan posts that i wont interact with but its still so annoying to me-

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sonik-kun · 6 months

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JC anti: "If Jiang Cheng knew he'd lose his core whilst saving Wei Wuxian, he wouldn't have sacrificed himself for him!!" "Jiang Cheng is so selfish!! He only thinks about himself!!!!!"

Meanwhile, this scene also exists:

Bro jumped in the way of the core melter hand.. THE CORE MELTER HAND! He knew what he was putting on the line here, both in this scene and in the scene where he saves WWX. And yet he didn't think twice about doing it.. Why? BECAUSE HE FUCKING LOVES HIS FAMILY!!!!

Honestly, if you read between the lines and look beyond WWX's pov, you'll see that JC is actually one of the most selfless characters in the book.

He puts himself between others numerous times throughout the story without a second thought, be it to save WWX, save JL etc..

Granted, it's only for family and those he cares for. But that's okay?? How many of you will willingly take a bullet for your family? Or run out to fight enemies head-on just to keep your family safe?? How many of you will do all this for complete strangers?? Be honest.

#mo dao zu shi #canon jiang cheng #mxtx mdzs #mdzs #mdzs manhua #the untamed #jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #yu ziyuan #jiang cheng puts his family first #he is selfless for that #putting others first is literally what being selfless means #*stares at that jc anti that mocked my previous “jc is selfless post”*

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bnnywngs · 4 months

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The rumors and gossip throughout the cultivation world was wrong from the beginning. The one who created the rumors herself, was beyond wrong in her delusions.

Wei Changze didn't elope with Cangse Sanren.

The Jiang sect leader at that time thought his son, Fengmian, was too enchanted with the rogue cultivator and immortal disciple, and that it interfered with the marriage negotiations between the Jiang and Yu sects. Reasoning, he gave an ultimatum to the couple: leave or die.

"And do not contact my son ever again."

So they had no choice but to leave immediately, in the middle of the night like two outlaws running from fate. It was shameful, but there was nothing they could do. Poor Fengmian, beyond feeling left behind by his two closest friends, will have to marry the one he despises the most at his father's word.

What a leader that Jiang zongzhu is! To resort to blackmailing a couple to get what he wants! Ha! May fate have fun with him!

Wei Changze and Cangse Sanren both curse his name and his person, as well as his passive wife. And even Jiang Fengmian himself. But they moved on, walking the world together hand in hand, and not too soon, they had company - A-Ying and his precious smiles.

Life wasn't so bad, after all. Maybe the decision to leave Yunmeng was for the best in the end.

#mdzs #mdzs headcanons #mdzs imagine #wei changze #cangse sanren #wei changze x cangse sanren #wei wuxian #wei ying #yunmeng jiang #jiang fengmian #jiang family #maybe they lived maybe they didn't #thats for you to decide #free to use with credit #anti yu ziyuan #i hate her #disfunctional family #my writing #bnnywngs writing

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wishthefish · 8 months

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Just as Wei Wuxian lost his golden core for Jiang Cheng, Jiang Cheng also lost his golden core for Wei Wuxian

#Fandom loves to dismiss how JC also sacrifices himself for his brother #When he decided to reveal himself to the Wen #(Who he had JUST seen burn doen his home and murder family)#he did it to ensure WWX's safety #He is no fool: The Wen had just committed a massacre #Although he hadn't intended to directly lose his golden core #it was clear that he had only his life left to be stolen #And the Wen very clearly wanted him and his family dead #For WWX he was willing to commit the biggest sacrifice #to deny that is to deny the book in it's entirety #without his sacrifice #whose to say the story wouldn't have changed irrevocably #and perhaps #for the worst?#wish the fish #mdzs #jiang cheng #Wei Wuxian #JC antis are going to have a field day trying to deny this

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ayingdidi · 11 months

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Why is it so hard to find Jiang Siblings/Family fics that are not pro Madam Yu 😩😩 The Jiang can only be a happy family if she died in a ditch somewhere. Free my man Jiang Fengmian from this abusive woman clutches!!

#anti madam yu #anti yu ziyuan #mdzs #mdzs fanfiction #jiang family #jiang siblings #the jiang can only be happy if she's out of the picture #u can't be both a JC stans and a Madam Yu apologist #that purple bitch RUINED him

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yinyangbuns · 1 year

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The jiang sect destruction episodes always reawaken the need in me to scour the “jiang family bashing” tag on ao3

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mxtxfanatic · 8 months

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Was thinking about how often I see reactionary pro-Jiang Cheng content, and I just realized something: jc stans, just like their fav, believe that every good thing Wei Wuxian has—whether loved ones or good memories or admirable characteristics or character growth, whether canon or fanon—is actually the rightful property of Jiang Cheng that Wei Wuxian “stole” from him through the sin of existing, and it is their sworn duty to correct this “oversight” of canon.

Wei Wuxian gets his happily ever after with the love of his life, so jc stans give Jiang Cheng Lan Xichen and call Lan Wangji “second place.” Or they make Lan Wangji a cheater because “he actually likes Jiang Cheng more (who doesn’t, amiright?)” or Wei Wuxian a cheater because “he can never appreciate a good thing like Jiang Cheng can.” People point out how Wei Wuxian and Nie Huaisang seem to have had a closer relationship than Nie Huaisang and Jiang Cheng, so jc stans make the latter two a ship or make them the bestest friends ever that bond over being annoyed with Wei Wuxian. Wei Wuxian has a close relationship with the Wen siblings, so jc stans make Wen Qing spend all their time together saying that Jiang Cheng “was right” about him while Wen Ning is being “bullied” into being “anti-jc.”

Wei Wuxian is canonically smart and driven, so jc stans say that he is lazy while Jiang Cheng is hardworking. Wei Wuxian is canonically charismatic, so jc stans say that it was actually Jiang Cheng who was loved by all the disciples and is the sole reason the Jiang Clan of the present was able to pull in new disciples post-fall. Wei Wuxian loves to learn, so jc stans say that Jiang Cheng was actually a model student being sabotaged by the slovenly Wei Wuxian.

People imagine the Lan as accepting Wei Wuxian post-canon or imagine aus where the Lan adopt him as a child, so jc stans make Jiang Cheng the adopted Lan child, who Lan Qiren now likes better than his own nephews. People write Nie!wwx, so jc stans write about how “actually” Nie Mingjue sees Jiang Cheng as the brother he never had and views Wei Wuxian as an unwanted nuisance and competition. People make the most batshit ooc au where the QishanWen are actually good and adopt Wei Wuxian, and jc stans turn that into actually, the Jiang siblings are adopted while Wei Wuxian stays with the “totally horrible, abusive” father in Yunmeng. Fucking Baoshan Sanren descends from her mountain to look for her martial grandson, and jc stans will shove Jiang Cheng into the narrative as a disciple because “he’s just so lovable!” In all of these cases, some will still imagine that Wei Wuxian still gets left on the streets as a petty afterthought.

Shit, even some of the BAD things that happen to Wei Wuxian canonically are misappropriated by jc stans to give Jiang Cheng unearned sympathy. Wei Wuxian was whipped as a child? Now Jiang Cheng was too, but also his dad hates him. Wei Wuxian is an orphan who creates his own family in adulthood? Jiang Cheng is now disowned/an unloved runaway who later finds his people because who wouldn’t want him (amiright?). Wei Wuxian was at risk of losing his golden core completely in the transfer if it failed? Well Jiang Cheng was going to DIE! “See? Look how much harder Jiang Cheng’s life was than that pathetic attention whore Wei Wuxian! Doesn’t he deserve all the things Wei Wuxian has? Aren’t they rightfully his???”

And it’s like, you can’t even escape into fan content with this type of mentality, because look out how much I mentioned is popular fanon. Notice how ubiquitous these ideas are surrounding anything to do with Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng, even if only one of them is mentioned. No matter what anyone reads in the novel, no matter what individuals come up with in their own heads, no matter what tag or platform is used or not used to keep it out of their hands, jc stans will be there to create a reactionary counterpart to prove that nothing, nothing can ever just be Wei Wuxian’s. Because at the end of the day, the “oversight” that jc stans want to correct isn’t Jiang Cheng’s supposed depreciation by the author. The “oversight” was the author daring to say that Wei Wuxian deserves to be treated as his own person and not Jiang Cheng’s personal property. And every fandom interaction has been retaliation towards that fact.

The main character of the novel is relegated to mere a lightning rod that exists to attract all of Jiang Cheng’s bad qualities while injecting him with all of Wei Wuxian’s good, but jc stans wonder why people are upset.

#mdzs #human gripes at fandom

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ultfreakme · 3 months

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Any time JC antis start coming for him and his reaction to what WWX did, I always want to ask them to do the "Lan Clan Test". Basically, replace the Jiang family deaths with Lan family deaths. Instead of Jin Zixuan dying by Wen Ning's hand, say it's Lan Qiren. At Nightless City, imagine it's Lan Xichen who's mourning his uncle that's searching for Lan Wangji, and WWX accidentally kills LXC.

Like really picture Lan Xichen dying in Lan Wangji's arms, telling him heartfelt words assured of his death and Lan Wangji's like "Hey please fix this, please stop this" to Wei Wuxian and WWX is like "wait wait I can fix this I swear I swear!".

Okay how would you expect Lan Wangji to react to that? Ngl if he still somehow thinks of Wei Wuxian as entirely blameless and holds zero resentment towards WWX after that, I would lose my respect for LWJ and I don't think LWJ would react like that anyways. The person you love whom you warned against taking this path has chosen to disregard anything you say(pr even his closest people like Jiang Cheng say) and has now lost all control and has killed all that's left of your family. Who WOULDN'T lose it at least a little? Who wouldn't hold resentment or anger or frustration?

Jiang Cheng made mistakes but he's not uniquely evil. He was right to have felt anger towards Wei Wuxian because bro in his eyes, Wei Wuxian COULD control that. Only we as audience know the extent of loss of control. And even if JC realized WWX can't control it, he begged WWX time and time again to stop Demonic Cultivation. Trying to flatten this situation into a "he's wrong, he's right, case closed" is the worst thing you can do in MDZS.

#canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng #mdzs #mo dao zu shi

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reileinaxiu · 2 years

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Yiling Siblings vs Yunmeng Siblings

The winner? Obviously...

Warnings: Some curse words. I have tagged this anti Jc, and Anti Jyl, and anti jiang in general If you like this then feel free to read and if not I will question your priorities and why are you looking for these types of metas when you stan the jiangs. Also I was lazy to look for factual references in the translations and I was busy with studying so not a lot of complete arguments or thought. So yeah comment if I've got some facts wrong or if you can link to me proper evidence. I wrote this for pleasure so please keep unconstructive or mean comments to yourself. I've been wanting to get this of my chest and out there.

Now!

Let's talk about WWX two sets of siblings again!

About how Yiling Siblings are superior in every way and how Yunmeng Siblings are overrated and not as fluffy as all those screenshotted moments people like to claim as "proof" of their "pure" sibling bonds.

One, WQ compared to JYL

This is not a competition, but if it was WQ would take first place in the big sister of the year award and JYL would take 5th.

It's a little difficult to write this without sounding downright mean and dismissive to JYL, but compared to WQ her acts as a big sister pale in comparison. Don't get me wrong both of them grew up in toxic environments WQ lived under fear and filial duty to a power hungry tyrant and his baby bro more or less a hostage along with the rest of her branch(depends on the adaptation). While JYL lived under a (verbally abusive) mother, who physically abuses the one you consider a brother, and a passive father. And they endured to raise their brothers mostly with absent parental figures.

In terms of parenting their blood brother, WN and JWY couldn't be more opposite than China and Argentina.

“You’re born with a smiling face. Always smiling, never mind too much about sorrowful things, no matter how worse the situation you’re in, you can always be happy.“ CQL Yanli.

This can describe WWX's surface traits but there is more to him than being able to carry burden with a smile. It's admirable to face the world with optimism but that doesn't mean you should suppress the things hurt you or that you should endure it or that it is okay to experience such things

(btw this is one of the top lines in cql that I hate with a passion and not just because it was said by a Jiang)(also where else did this line come from again? If this was only found in the cql if so nevermind but I can def see JYL saying this type of things too)

WQ can see as clear as day when WY is hurting and scolds and pesters him to take better care of himself and lets him know that she will be there to help.

Towards WWX, their isn't much to say about JYL, we can't fault her for her limitations in the mess of dynamics that is her family. She tries to be kind and treats WY like she would her brother. The only reasons she's pretty high up in WWX's heart is because he was young and impressionable when he joined Yunmeng Jiang. A small act of kindness in a toxic environment will seem so much more in terms of significance to him. Interactions with JYL are more playful than anything substantial. They are playing the act of the clingy little brother and the doting older sister.

WQ brings realistic thorough thoughts for WY's well-being. She scolds him to take care of his health and doesn't praise him but at the end of the day even if WY hides his hurts with poor bandages WQ will rip off those bandages and rewrap them more expertly and make him drink potent remedies.

What is soup compared to effective medicines when you are hurting(physically and emotionally that is)?

PS. Don't hate on me for my horrible metaphors.

Two, WN compared to JWY

To start off let's begin with the POV of side characters or extra or whatever gossip mongering people there are in the MDZS universe.

WN was the Ghost General, the right-hand man to Yiling Laozu WWX.

While to JWY, WWX was supposed to be his right-hand man and subordinate.

Already there's a glaring difference.

WN would accept LWJ as a good partner for WY. And as long as WY is happy and cares for that is all he asks.

JWY didn't last one minute before sneering in disgust at LWJ and WWX's relationship after stalking them through Lotus Pier. Why do people need to ask why he is a homophobe?

Also I find myself insulted to even compare WN to JWY.

Between a backstabber and the most loyal friend even beyond death how could that compare.

Too many times has JWY turned his back and averted his eyes and directly harmed WWX .

While WN has stayed through thick and thin with WWX.

Three, WN compared to JYL

Okay! The quiet supportive sibling comparison.

Yeah there is no comparing. Hands down WN is the winner. The man committed treason for WY. While JYL couldn't even drag an apology out of JZXun's fat mouth.

Four, WQ compared to JWY

Are people comparing WQ strictness to JWY's so-called tsundere personality? Newsflash tsunderes don't actively gut their loved ones and declare them the enemy of the world.

Five, the DafanWen Family.

Let's be real the Wen Remnants were the probably the nicest most normal family there is in MDZS who just got roped in to suffering under the Cultivation World's politicking, and wars and aftermath of wars, just the entire Cultivation World bullsh** shebang. In fact, they were probably the most resilient and family oriented which was actually the foundation of their ancestor Wen Mao's teachings. Compared to the tally of all the broken complicated family relationships we have by the end of the book.

Six, the Jiang Family and all their general sh**

Its mostly in my How I became Anti JC and Anti Jiang in General.

Check it out for more reasons to say that this family is the byproduct of a trainwreck and a plane crash on a stormy day.

Seven, WWX's true family in the end.

I count 3 main family members of WWX's and a lot of adopted ducklings. Those would be: his husband, LWJ(obviously), his little radish son, and his best friend/brother in all but blood who stood by him through some of his most harrowing moments, and that is

Just kidding 😂 it's Wen Ning who else deserves that honored spot?

Let's not forget our favorite Baby Lan, Jingyi, and our romantic Ouyang Zizhen, and our real tsundere Jin Ling (ok he might have stabbed WWX too but at least he looked to regret it and didn't mean to hurt him. I headcanon a post-canon apology and heart-to-heart between JL and WWX).

Eight WWX's matching personalities with WQ and WN.

Righteous, Protective, Talented, Mold breakers.

Righteous, while we know WY is the moral compass of the story, to see wrong and seek to do what's right despite society's disapproval, WQ and WN are surprisingly the same. WN saved WWX and JWY because WWX was kind and supportive to him and for nothing else in return and that it was the right thing to do and he knows that WC and the rest of the rotten side of his family is doing wrong. WQ may have helped hide them to protect WN from the consequences of his actions but she didn't have to heal them diligently, and shelter them. She could have sent them off immediately with supplies especially after JWY 🤬 hurt her precious brother and spat vitriol everywhere he went.

All three of them are super protective, and super loyal to their family. (WY considered the Wens his family and absolutely despaired when they left to be executed (aftermath of this is the Bloodbath of Nightless City), WN and WQ sacrificing themselves to the Jins for the rest of their family and WY)

All three of them were geniuses in their own right. WY as a genius inventor(he invented his own path in 3 measly months!), prodigious cultivator (late start became ahead of everyone). WQ, genius doctor recognized by WRH. And WN, recognized by WY as a prodigy in archery.

They were the mold breakers of their current society but mostly WY and WQ. WY for mastering and understanding resentful energy and adapting his knowledge to Cultivation. And WQ, for conceiving the idea of a Golden Core Transfer. They were the definition of heretics to everyone but that's what made them amazing and unfortunately feared.

I don't see any mentions of JWY being righteous(definitely not), nor talented, JYL too she was always average and never done anything notable that is to be mentioned besides the praise that comes from WWX and JWY.

Lastly this is just an aesthetic preference but Wen Qing, Wei Ying, and Wen Ning rhyme in pinyin, even if their Chinese definitions are different. You know how we like to shortcut MDZS characters to their name initials like WWX or LWJ.

Guess what! Their intials are still similar you could write the Wen adopting WWX or adopting his name and there initials would remain the same! So I could comment WQ and WN somewhere but in my heart they are Wei instead of Wen. The three were meant to be siblings! MXTX probably planned this too.

Although fate has WWX grieving both older sisters in his first life.

Guess which little brother is still more than welcome in WWX's second life?

I'll give you a hint: It's not JC.

References(mostly):

https://modao-zushi.fandom.com/wiki/Grandmaster_of_Demonic_Cultivation_Wiki

Exhiled Rebels Translations

The Untamed

#mdzs #modaozushi #mdzs meta #wei wuxian #wei ying #wen qing #wen ning #yiling siblings #dafan wen family #yunmeng siblings bashing #anti jiang cheng #anti jiang yanli #anti jiang family #anti jc

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least-carpet · 9 months

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I am curious: how do you think would work realistically a jc and wwx's reconciliation? Have you any meta on them and their relationship?

I'm sorry this took a minute, anon! Work has been frankly chaotic. But I saw an anti-reconciliation post¹ and I have been roused from my post-work stupor.

Unfortunately, you asked me for something I'm incompetent at, which is plotting. (Otherwise I would have already unleashed my ningcheng fic upon the world.) What I can talk about is what I find compelling about potential reconciliation and potential scenarios.

Why do I love a post-canon reconciliation?

Apart from really liking their relationship and finding it compelling—IMO it's the heart of the narrative of the first life—what I actually enjoy about it is what it offers in terms of development for Wei Wuxian.

I read Wei Wuxian as having displaced and projected a lot of his unresolved trauma onto Jiang Cheng. I've talked a little before about my reading of Jiang Cheng as the "bad feelings" sin eater of the Yunmeng Trio—neither Jiang Yanli nor Wei Wuxian feel like they can express deep unhappiness, but Jiang Cheng is bad at hiding his, so in some way it's his job to embody the collective unhappiness of the children of that family system.

But although this makes Wei Wuxian merry and likeable, it's not actually good for anyone, or even sustainable—when he loses control, he really loses control. And his coping skills are extremely self-destructive, as we can see from the post-war downward spiral of drinking and avoidance. I also think his experiences in his childhood (losing his parents and being homeless) plus his wartime experiences gave him some kind of trauma disorder that contributes to his terrible memory, which he's turned into his primary coping mechanism (apart from alcohol). If I Simply Close My Eyes And Run Away, My Bad Feelings Can't Get Me!

But, like, repressing your feelings doesn't work forever. He's compartmentalized his whole first life to function in the second one, but that means giving up on everything and everyone he loved, including the Jiang siblings and Lotus Pier. That's incredibly tragic to me.

Sometimes I think antis are so happy to demonize Jiang Cheng in order to minimize the depth of the loss Wei Wuxian has suffered. If he never loved Jiang Cheng, if they were never close and devoted to one another, if their childhood was an unending misery, then wouldn't Wei Wuxian be much freer in the present?

But what I think has happened is that the loss is so huge that it's completely terrifying and threatening. So are the feelings around killing Jin Zixuan, Jiang Yanli's death, and the death of Wen Qing and the Wen remnants. It's too much, so he blocks it out or, in some cases, projects it onto Jiang Cheng.

Of course, Jiang Cheng will never forgive him, because he irreparably ruined Jiang Yanli's life and then she died trying to save him and Jin Ling became an orphan. It's all his fault; it can't be forgiven; he might as well give up on it...

Jiang Cheng is obviously very angry and upset with him, it's true. But you can see how projecting his guilt and shame over his actions onto Jiang Cheng and then running away from Jiang Cheng is also a way for him to escape his guilt and shame over what happened to Jiang Yanli. (And to escape all the repressed resentment he has for Jiang Cheng because of the core transfer.²)

But there are two tragic elements of this approach. One, that by doing this he yields up any possible relationship with Jiang Cheng, and with the Jiang Sect, because by all means Wei Wuxian must escape him in order to outrun his terrible feelings. Two, that it's another coping mechanism that distorts the reality of the situation, which is that they were all swept up in power games beyond their capacity to manage, and they did their best—the Jiang siblings, the Wen siblings, Jin Zixuan, and Wei Wuxian—and it still went badly for everyone except the Jin Sect.

I don't think he can confront that yet. But I do think that Wei Wuxian feels very safe with Lan Wangji, and sometimes a safe and supportive relationship can provide the resources to do things you didn't think you could do before.

Can you imagine a different conversation, that begins with the bald acknowledgement of failure and wrongdoing³? "I never meant for all of that to happen. I did what I thought was right, but I never thought Jiang Yanli would be harmed, and I didn't intend to kill Jin Zixuan. I am so sorry. I miss her."

GIVE THE CATHARSIS TO ME. GIVE IT HERE.

A Wei Wuxian who has reached a point where he's capable of that accountability and vulnerability is delicious to me. A Wei Wuxian who can get there can return to Lotus Pier and rebuild a relationship with the living sect and his living sect brother.

How could it happen?

The trick is how to get there, 'cause it's like trying to herd cats where one cat is mortally afraid of facing the second and the other one has betrayal trauma and abandonment issues. But the cats love each other! They do!

I don't see Jiang Cheng initiating. I see him as being more open to a reconciliation, now that he knows why Wei Wuxian did what he did, but I see him as being profoundly afraid of trapping people in relationship with him or inflicting himself on people who don't want him around. (Not, like, for politics. In that arena I assume he's unpleasant when necessary to great effect.)

Fortunately, Wei Wuxian can be led if you're cunning enough to do it and you bait the trap with something good (see the plot of MDZS for Nie Huaisang's very successful demonstration of this principle). He also will increase pursuit if you dangle and withdraw the bait.

The question, of course, is what makes good bait for catching Wei Wuxian. Some options:

Option 1: murder mystery. Someone dies in an exciting way that involves Jiang Cheng. (Wei Wuxian will involve himself, dude loves a murder mystery.) It could be in the Jiang Sect or the Jin Sect; if it involves Jin Ling, Jiang Cheng will jump in with a swiftness.

Option 2: Jiang Cheng marriage rumours. Doesn't even have to involve unsavoury rumous about the potential wife; Jiang Cheng getting married without him (like Jiang Yanli) would dredge up some feelings, I think.

Option 3: Jiang Cheng tragic illness or curse rumours. You better be sure it was in a past life, cause it looks like this one might be over soon!

Option 4: Forced together time (due to a night hunt or a kidnapping, etc.). It's time for the getting along shirt!

To borrow from SVSSS, you might need a scenario-pusher for it to happen. But the world of MDZS is rife with these opportunities, and cultivators can live a very long time. So there's hope yet!

Footnotes:

1. This is a perfectly reasonable viewpoint to come to by the end of the novel. It's simply one I don't share.

2. See this passage from the confrontation in the Guanyin Temple:

"It wasn’t something he liked to reminisce about. He didn’t want to be reminded again and again of what it felt like when his core was cut out or what price he had to pay. If this were exposed in the past, he’d most likely laugh and comfort Jiang Cheng … But now, he indeed didn’t have the strength left to put up such a confident, nonchalant pretense.

From the bottom of his heart, he knew he wasn’t so indifferent about it after all.

Was it really that easy to move on from such a thing?

Of course not." (Chapter 103, "Hatred," ExR translation)

3. I saw a different post complaining about Wei Wuxian apologizing to Jiang Cheng in reconciliation scenarios, and I just, like, he kicked off a political firestorm that ended in the death of Jiang Yanli and her husband. This is completely separate from the non-consensual surgery and all the lying he was doing about that. He owes him multiple different apologies! And Jiang Cheng should also apologize to him! That's why they apologize to each other in the Temple, because they know they hurt each other! The point of an apology in an intimate relationship is to connect with the person you are apologizing to in order to repair the relationship, and the Temple was not the time, which is why they need a private do-over! It's not humiliation, it's intimacy, connection, and repair. How do y'all live your lives.

3.5 Also, imagine it to be more in-character than that.

#anon asks #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #yunmeng shuangjie #chengxian #yunmeng shuangjie reconciliation #mdzs +#meta #least-carpet thoughts

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wenningfanclub · 8 months

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Antis will be like “Jiang Cheng never viewed Wei Wuxian as family, he was treated like a servant!!! 😠😠😠” but like… if I showed up day-drunk to work, stopped performing my basic duties, kept skipping out when the most support was needed rebuilding, escalated fights during diplomatic events, and refused to tell anyone why I’d started behaving like this, I would definitely get fired. But instead Wei Wuxian has to quiet quit and then actually quit when even that doesn’t work, because as far as we can tell Jiang Cheng would've let him stay as first disciple forever no matter what. So like, if Jiang Cheng thinks of himself as just Wei Wuxian's boss, he does a pretty bad job of treating Wei Wuxian as just an employee.

Are there complicated class dynamics and internal senses of responsibility and debt and duty and obligation fucking both of them up? Absolutely. But Wei Wuxian is definitely not just a servant or a debtor, it’s much, much messier and more complicated than that--which is kind of the problem.

#tbh I think this also comes down to projecting modern (and often western) power dynamics on a very different system #but it's also just flat untrue lol #like you don't let yourself get captured and tortured for Just Some Guy who works for you #not to mention the whole making sure wwx could see jyl before the wedding and get to name the baby #normal things that bosses do for their employees after they quit #once again: there are many things to critique about Jiang Cheng #but antis always fully choose takes that are just blatantly untrue #like the amount of posts that claim he killed wwx when he just flat didn’t is wild #like wwx beat him to that! my man just can’t win!#mdzs #cql #the untamed #jiang cheng #wei wuxian

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poorlittleyaoyao · 4 months

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Most of wangxian fics are a retelling of the chengxian canon relationship with lan wangji in jiang cheng' place, with anti jiang family content (sometimes jiang yanli is spared)

BOOOOOORING, and also ?????????? because... the whole point of Novel Wangxian, from what I understand, is that they didn't have a close relationship prior to WWX's resurrection. The combination of societal obligations, misconceptions about each other, fear of open communication, and traumatic events outside their control (ex: THE DEVASTATING CIVIL WAR) prevents them from connecting in their youths as they might have otherwise, so the story is about how they make different choices when they're granted a second chance as more-adult adults. Like. That's the novel. If you's prefer a version of events where they're kindred spirits and mutually close starting in their teen years, that is literally CQL.

But mostly, I say again, BOOOOOORING! In the tags that inspired this Ask, I forgot about post-canon fic, and there's a lot of potential there! How successful are they about staying out of politics, given WWX's proven inability to stay in his lane and the nonzero chance that LWJ gets pulled into additional sect responsibilities if LXC's seclusion persists? With WWX's image redeemed somewhat now that JGY's everyone's new villain, will that mean a demonic cultivation renaissance among rogue cultivators? What role will they have in helping LZS reconnect with his heritage?

So there is plenty of stuff you can do aside from Sexy and/or Bland Times with Wangxian, but the Jiang bashing is just... beyond basic. It cheapens WWX's actions so much. Like, are you saying your boy voluntarily ripped out his golden core for some guy he didn't even like and then didn't say anything about it because he was just that beholden to obligation? Are you saying that protecting the Wen remnants was a super easy task for him, entailing zero emotional hardship on his part because he'd long since discharged his debt to his oh-so-rotten adoptive family? Like, damn, CQL downplays or removes WWX's responsibility in a lot of what he experiences, but at least he's still actively choosing sacrifice and being really messed up about it. Why make him less interesting!

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in-danmei-hell-send-help · 1 year

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I think what kills me about Jiang Cheng antis is that a lot of their talking points reek of anti survivor rhetoric. As someone who is a survivor and has done a lot of advocacy for victims and survivors of power based personal violence, I want to be the first to inform you that the narrative of the “pretty survivor” (which is steeped in cishet normative, white supremacist, and ableist ideas) is an extremely rare case. Trauma survivors are rarely pretty. The Wei Wuxian’s of the world are incredibly uncommon.

Trauma--especially intense, horrific trauma like what Jiang Cheng went through--often leads to intense issues of anger and hatred. It makes you deeply emotional and can often lead to you becoming unstable. Jiang Cheng lost his entire family and community in the span of a few years. He didn’t have access to therapy (something that literally anyone would need to heal from that), he had to rebuild his entire sect, likely had to fight an uphill battle in order to be a significant part of Jin Ling’s life, all while cleaning up the mess that Wei Wuxian left behind.

This is not to hate on Wei Wuxian, he’s my third favorite character (after Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji) and I love him deeply, but he left behind a legacy that Jiang Cheng had to clean up. Whether or not he realized this would happen, Wei Wuxian created a cultivation path (gui dao/ghost cultivation) that is extremely dangerous and horrific. While I still don’t know if I believe that Jiang Cheng killed every demonic cultivator he came across, I don’t know that it was necessarily a bad thing that he did kill them. We’ve talked a lot in the cxc server about gui dao and demonic cultivation and just how much it harms the mind and body. Wei Wuxian is the exception to the rule in having such control over it and even he eventually succumbed to it. If demonic cultivators are causing great harm, then a cultivators job is to stop that harm and the source of it. That may mean killing the demonic cultivator. I think people get mixed up when (I think it was Jingyi) said that Jiang Cheng kills the wrong person. I believe it was @twilightarc-gm who said that “wrong” doesn’t imply innocent but rather the fact that the person isn’t Wei Wuxian. We know that Jiang Cheng spent thirteen years trying to find Wei Wuxian and when he does find him, he doesn’t kill him despite having literally every reason to.

Like idk y’all, if the guy that got my entire clan wiped out, my sect burned down, and caused the deaths of my sister and her husband died and came back from dead, I wouldn’t just threaten him with a dog and yell at him. I would kill him. But he doesn’t he has every opportunity to in multiple instances after confirming that it’s Wei Wuxian, but he never does. He seems more interested in dragging Wei Wuxian home (literally stating that he’s going to bring Wei Wuxian home to Lotus Pier to kneel before his parents’ graves). Like that doesn’t imply that he’s going to kill Wei Wuxian, but rather make him repent.

I think it’s telling that despite a lot of Jiang Cheng’s hurt and pain, he still chooses to not severely hurt or kill Wei Wuxian, it would be within his right to do so, but in the end after it’s all over, he let’s Wei Wuxian go. He doesn’t tell Wei Wuxian that he sacrificed himself for him, because he knew that Wei Wuxian would feel guilty and obligated to him, just like Wei Wuxian knew Jiang Cheng would feel guilty and obligated. That to me shows a survivor choosing to break the cycle of hurt and pain and I have to question why Jiang Cheng antis so often choose to ignore the side of him that does love Wei Wuxian (it’s up to the viewer whether they see that love as romantic or platonic), enough so to let him go and not burden him with pain.

Jiang Cheng’s story and character arc is at it’s core about trauma, survival, and rising above dire circumstances despite the odds. He attempts the impossible and manages to succeed in it. And to ignore that is a disservice to his character, survivors of trauma, and the effort MXTX put into creating such a complex and interesting character.

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theresattrpgforthat · 7 days

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Hi! This request was easier to search for, so I see you’ve recommended Hearts of Wulin and Ten Thousand Days for the Sword. Do you have any other wuxia or xianxia game recs?

Have a good day!

THEME: Wuxia Games.

Hello friend, I'm certainly not an expert, but after reaching out to some more knowledgeable folks, I think I have a few!

Jiangshi: Blood in the Banquet Hall, by Wet Ink Games.

This is a collaborative, storytelling RPG about a Chinese family making their living by running a restaurant in one of America’s Chinatowns, circa 1920. Despite societal backlash and anti-Chinese laws, they have turned a profit and their quality of life has recently improved.

Night, however, brings a new terror.

Players take on the roles of members of the Chinese family (mostly from Guangdong province), spanning three generations, who face threats of jiangshi (hopping vampires) at night and racism by day. It has players balancing the responsibility of maintaining their family business with protecting themselves and their community from the dreaded Jiangshi. This is primarily a game about storytelling. Combat is limited, but horror, drama and sometimes comedy are the primary vehicles for driving the game forward.

This game draws quite a bit from boardgaming elements, so I think this one is best played around a physical table, especially since it requires a custom deck of cards. You’ll use these cards to represent the demands of running a restaurant in the day, as well as fighting of a vampire at night. This game is probably on the borders of what I think is considered wuxia, but if you have a horror lover in your group, this might be worth checking out.

Exalted, by Onyx Path Games.

This is the tale of a forgotten age before the seas were bent, when the world was flat and floated atop a sea of chaos. This is the tale of a decadent empire raised up on the bones of the fallen Golden Age, whose splendor it faintly echoed but could not match. This is a tale of primal frontiers, of the restless dead, of jeweled cities ruled openly by spirits in defiance of Heaven’s law. This is a tale of glorious heroes blessed by the gods, and of their passions and the wars they waged in the final era of legends.

Exalted has a number of different sources, only one of which feels close to wuxia, but the stories are certainly expected to give you long, sweeping epics and larger-than-life characters. There are many different kinds of Exalted, including Solars, Lunars, and Dragon-Blooded. Since I’m not a wuxia connoisseur myself, I’m not entirely sure how close Exalted comes to hitting the mark - I’m mostly recommending it because it came up connected to some other wuxia fantasy games when I was doing some searching.

Jiang Hu, by wum1ng.

Jiang Hu is a role-playing game for the wuxia genre. Drawing inspiration from wuxia novels written by luminaries such as Jin Yong and Gu Long, the Feng Yun comics from Ma Rong Chen and the multitude of wuxia movies and television series, this game brings the world of dashing swordsmen, warrior monks, brawling beggars and high-flying stunts to your tabletop.

Players take on the role of Martial Artists fighting against various threats to the lands of Jiang Hu, ranging from evil sect leaders who have mastered forbidden secret martial arts techniques to megalomaniacs seeking to take over the Imperial Throne by force and the blood of countless innocents.

The Worlds Without Number series by Kevin Crawford has its praises sung by many people, especially folks in the OSR scene, and that is the bones that this game is built on. Your character is built from quite a list of skills, which are differentiated between Combat and Non-Combat. You also have a number of secondary attributes, for things such as Armour Class, Evasion, and Luck, as well as a dedicated space on your character sheet for weapons and martial arts. Expect combat to to take up a bulk of your time!

When you roll for your character background, you also get a significant life event that is expected to shape your character’s past, such as having a loved one murdered, or falling into serious debt. Out of all of the games listed here, I think this game is the closest to D&D, what with the “packages” of skills, items and abilities attached to each background.

The Oath, by brushmen.

"We seek not to be born on the same day, but hope to die on the same day." And with such an oath, Yong, Li, and Ming swore loyalty to each other.

When earthly desires tempt them, and devotions threaten to tear them apart, with or without a hand from uncaring fate…

will their oath endure?

The Oath is a collaborative storytelling game for one Game Moderator and three players.

This is meant to be a one-shot, which borrows the Entanglements system from Hearts of Wulin and the character Keys and Tags from Lady Blackbird. Since this game comes with characters already pre-written, it would probably be very good for groups who have very little time, or who want an easy on-ramp to games or the wuxia genre. I like the fact that the Keys give you prompts and directions for your character’s behaviour; it’s strong statement on how the author interprets the genre, but it still gives you, the player, a choice on what elements of your character will be emphasized, and what elements will take up the background.

brushmen also has another wuxia Lady Blackbird hack called The Escort, about recovering from a violent robbery, this one for four players and one GM.

Four Swords, by ehronlime.

This is a tabletop roleplaying game about being young heroes in a wuxia story, made for the #AsianMartialArtsJam.

You start with your First Sword, which you use to challenge other heroes and villains and strive for mastery.

You will then gain three more Swords: the Second a sword of great pride and regret, the Third a sword of mastery and expression, and the Fourth a sword which is no sword.

You will also struggle between the obligations put upon your by others and what you truly desire from the life of a wandering hero.

Four Swords really zeroes in on the combat mastery part of wuxia fantasy. Your characters will grow into mastery, and battle with rigid codes and rules that structure the world you live in. The game is very descriptive, leaving you with only 4 abilities that are meant to broadly encompass what you are able to do. The game encourages characters to interfere with each-other using a mechanic called Vows, and levelling up gives you access to different techniques, which reinforce the competence of your characters as well as the rigid guidelines by which they might improve.

This game was made for the Asian Martial Arts by Asian Creators Game Jam, so you might find some more wuxi-themed games there!

Blades of the Immortals, by Jagganoth.

Blades of the Immortals is a tabletop roleplaying game inspired by xiānxiá. It uses the Forged in the Dark rules engine developed by John Harper, as seen in games like Blades in the Dark and Beam Saber.

In Blades of the Immortals, you will take on the roles of cultivators, striving for your own ambitions, for the glory of your sect, and for the ultimate prize — immortality. You'll viciously struggle for scarce resources, compete for the patronage of powerful and influential teachers, gather allies to your banner, and scheme against your enemies. Your cultivators will wield mystical treasures and supernatural spell-arts, mastering the very laws of the cosmos as their weapons, as they become entangled in centuries-long vendettas between deathless wizard-kings.

This game is solidly focused on supernatural abilities and grand increases in strength. You choose from one of 9 different playbooks, and collaboratively create a faction that binds you all together. The sources listed as inspirations for this game include (but are not limited to) Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, Forge of Destiny, Aspiring to the Immortal Path, and Journey to the West.

Compared to other Blades hacks, this game reduces the standard number of action ratings, ties character growth to a change in your character’s beliefs, and separates your gear from your playbook. Characters can also level up through Realms, which increases your effectiveness and upgrades your inventory.

Mist-Robed Gate, by Shreyas & Elizabeth Sampat.

There are some things that we value more than life.

There are things we're willing to scheme and cry and fight and die for.

That's what wuxia cinema is about— fighting and dying for the things we care about. That's what Mist-Robed Gate is about.

Mist-Robed Gate comes with a full list of movie recommendations, but includes Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and House of Flying Daggers as key influences. I really like the fact that a key mechanic of this game includes stabbing your character sheet with a knife.

Players create factions first, and then take turns creating characters that represent those factions, with elements that represent the hero’s distinctive personality and style. Players also create the different locations that will serve as the stage for your scenes. Play happens over a series of scenes, as their characters push and pull against each-other, sometimes even making terrible demands (which is where the Knife comes in). If you want a game that has a lot of politics in the terms of actions having large ramifications over big groups of people, and if you want a game that is extremely dramatic, you might want to check out Mist-Robed Gate.

#tabletop games #indie ttrpgs #game recommendations #dnd #asks #wuxia #xianxia

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