#and i'm unable to get emotionally invested in these characters at all in the live action series | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

ineffectualdemon · 2 years

Text

The reason I find Shang Qinghua so fascinating is because his life is terrible and familiar

What little facts we learn about his pre transmigration life is:

1. He was estranged from both his parents as they were much more invested in their new families

2. Because of that it's implied he was neglected. We only know for sure that while his dad paid his tution and living expenses he often "forgot"

3. He ended up writing proclivity based on what the comments liked or disliked because he was pandoring as it was his main source of income and because of that

4. He deliberately farmed hate comments because that was still engagement

But what we can infer about his life from the other characters is so much more

Luo Binghe: Luo Binghe is constantly hurt as a child by adults and people in authority who should be taking care of him. So he has attachment issues, trust issues, and in the original novel ends up in a lot of meaningless heterosexual sexual encounters that are devoid of emotional depth but let him play caretaker and accept affection as shallow as it can be. He also spends a good portion of his existence in dreams

Luo Binghe is obviously a self insert power fantasy. Through him Shang Qinghua was able to get revenge on those who hurt him and be powerful. But because Shang Qinghua (who may or may not have known he was gay) was filling his novel, that he has once dreamed of being art, with sex to please a bunch of straight men...no wonder the sex was devoid of emotion and left Luo Binghe as fundamentally hollow inside unable to fill the void in his soul. Because while PIDW paid the bills it was emotionally unsatisfying to Shang Qinghua

Luo Binghe is also written to be manipulative and I think that's a dark version of Shang Qinghua's need to fill a role and be what people need of him

Which brings us to:

Yue Qingyuan: Yue Qingyuan always has a smile on his face and strives to be pleasant and to fix problems between other people even when he's rejected for it and he constantly is failing to reach those he really needs to. Too afraid to speak his truth even as he has a sword of Damocles hanging over his head

This is the the other side of Shang Qinghua's people pleasing. This is a child who feels he has to fix his parents divorce and feeling like it's his fault. This is Shang Qinghua never feeling good enough

Original Shen Qingqiu: Shen Qingqiu is able to be the petty spiteful bitch Shang Qinghua always wanted to be. Shang Qinghua in canon often mutters spiteful hate filled comments towards those who treat him bad but he doesn't often say it to anyone directly until the ascension. Because Shang Qinghua doesn't feel he can get away with it

Shen Qingqiu is also a conduit for the rage I'm sure Shang Qinghua has towards his half siblings. Those are ugly feelings that he can't express to the people in question. If you've been hurt and deprived and you see someone getting what you needed but never had, well it fills you with anger at the innocent party.

It's possible to swallow that rage down and recognise it's not the fault of the person recieving what you needed. But it's an ugly emotion that has to go somewhere. And I think all of Shang Qinghua's ugly feelings like that pre transmigration went to Shen Qingqiu

Shen Qingqiu can be spiteful and two faced and elegant and nasty in a way Shang Qinghua couldn't be. Which is why he had a complicated backstory

Mobei Jun: we know he's Shang Qinghua's ideal man. Both in what he's attracted to (whether he realises it or not when he wrote him) and what he wants to be

So what does that tell us?

It tells us Shang Qinghua wants to be strong and he wants to not feel

He wants to take the trauma of his childhood and close off from the pain he feels

He wants to be ice. He wants to be stoic and unbothered and strong enough that pain doesn't reach him

Now we know that Mobei Jun in SVSSS does have feelings he's just very bad at expressing them. But to Shang Qinghua he's endlessly cool and untouched and untroubled

We learn so little of Shang Qinghua directly but because he's author of the world and from ways he reacts to characters and situations we can infer so much

And he's so hurt and lonely and lacking in self worth

And yet the narrative doesn't get any kinder to him. Post transmigration he is bullied by the system and by his peers and by Mobei Jun and he's always fighting for survival

Because both lives have been about "smile, do what you're told, survive"

But his extras end with his ideal character protecting him, treating him kindly, and agreeing to make him noodles. And Shang Qinghua feels safe enough in that moment to be demanding and ask for what he wants!

And anyone who has been neglected and emotionally abused can tell you that asking for what you want is a big fucking deal

I will have been married 18 years this November and I still cannot tell my husband (who is great) what I would like for dinner half the time because in my head I am not allowed to ask for stuff (I'm working on it)

Shang Qinghua goes through so much shit (and we don't even learn his name from his first life)

But his happy ending is him finally asking for something for himself and getting what he asked for without complaint

And what he's asking for is what killed him

He's so interesting and I can't get over how much is there but hidden in the other characters

#svsss meta #svsss #shang qinghua #character study #moshang #long post

1K notes · View notes

stellarred · 1 year

Text

I remember the TNG episode Cause and Effect, and how every time they repeated the loop, they became a bit more aware of what had happened until the problem was fixed.

I am unfortunately struggling a bit today with that post-ending scene between Q and Jack. Why would Q only appear to Jack? What is Jack's role in Q's cosmic scheme? Why couldn't Q have reappeared to Picard?

Given the fact that Patrick Stewart, Terry Matalas, and Co may not do a fourth season of PIC, and that Jack has taken over JLP's place in Trekdom, I am upset and depressed to think Q won't come back to Picard onscreen again.

But, knowing the Qcard force is strong, and that Q will see JLP "out there", there's no convincing me that Picard and Q will never end up together in eternity. Q loves him too much to just let Picard go and die. They end up together no matter what happens, or who Picard marries along the way.

I hate myself for investing emotionally in character ships, because I hate what writers do to them. That's why I don't watch lots of television shows, or movie franchises because of that one special pair of characters.

But, Qcard is very, very special to me. It provided me with a valuable source of relief and served as a good distraction late at night for almost three years after I had gone through a very difficult time in my life. My heart had been horribly betrayed so badly by people that I moved to the other side of the world to get away and heal. I got a good job abroad and stayed active, but there were times when my heartache caught up with me. I struggled with frequent ruminations of what had happened, and this was especially true late at night. Then I found out that Qcard was being taken seriously by STP writers. It made me happy and excited enough that it gave my mind something to think about and enjoy when I began to feel stressed again. I'd shipped Qcard for many years before then, but now, my favorite couple was back with a vengeance!

According to canon in my house, Q "died" in S2, but not before sending himself into the future to S3 to work with Jack, so that he could eventually serve as a conduit to his father's heart. Perhaps if Jack could ascend eventually to be with he and Picard, they could be a family!

I have always believed that Q had created a time loop in case Picard was unable to ascend. For example, in S2's Fly Me to the Moon, Q told Soong about "In 17 seconds, you are going to take a seat. Right on the tick!"

My take is that Qcard goes through TNG, STP S1 and S2, and after Q dies, Picard's relationship with Laris crumbles, and alone in his chateau, he eventually feels haunted by Q's absence (dreams, hearing whispers in the dark...). Picard goes on to rescue Q from wherever he's been. They have a committed relationship, get married, and live years of adventures in the universe together.

But, through a series of circumstances, Q is devastated to learn that the Continuum won't allow Picard to ascend. His capitaine's not ready. Meanwhile, Picard is aging and going to die.

Q uses a time loop to take them back to Encounter at Farpoint, and like Cause and Effect, Q has to re-teach Picard his lessons, and Q has to woo Picard all over again. Q has only a vague memory of his previous journey to marriage with Picard, while Picard doesn't remember at all.

This is also why a few Tumblrs suggested that Q and Picard are like "exes", which I don't like because that implies they didn't get along.

But, with each loop from TNG to STP S2, and the years after during their marriage, Picard learns more and proves himself worthy to join Q in eternity at last at some point.

I know people have excitement about this Legacy series that Terry Matalas is so gung-ho for. But, as far as Qcard goes, we don't know where that is going. Patrick Stewart said that they'd left "a few doors open" after S3, but I am tired of speculation.

Therefore, until a Tumblr mutual tries to excite me with real Qcard upcoming news-- because I'm not scouring any more ST news sources to get my hopes up anymore, my multiseries time loop is my canon.

I was grateful that Terry Matalas didn't ignore Q altogether, but I refuse to pay attention to any new Q character arcs. I mean, knowing our luck, Q will then be romantically involved with Deanna Troi!

So, I'm done.

My onscreen Qcard story ends at S2's Farewell, but my personal story with Q has, I believe, a FAR richer continuation.

I will say though, that Q looks damn sexy in that red cape.

#qcard #star trek q #john de lancie #patrick stewart #q #star trek tng #star trek #stp season two #q x picard

30 notes · View notes

smoothgeometry · 1 year

Text

FAQ: Who is The Colonel?

If you've been on the main blog page and not just mobile, I'm sure you've seen the banner up top as well as the blog description, which leads to the obvious question:

Who is The Colonel, exactly?

Well, he's the architect, to a great degree, behind the polycule I RP, and the only character that I write that isn't actually my own.

TLDR: I RP as Jade Curtiss from Tales of the Abyss (a once-popular JRPG from the Tales Of series). There's a lot of odd magic things in his setting that ultimately mess with the fabric of reality, so I don't think that it's a stretch to say it's possible for him to be dropoped somewhere on another plane if someone fucks with magic in just the right way.

With that said, his personal plot is deeply involved with his desire to go "back home" and survive in the universe he's landed himself in long enough to do so. He's done a good job of the latter, but so far, nothing he's researched has worked... well, not yet at least.

While Jade does have a playful side, it's usually to keep others at bay. Underneath the facade of social versatility lies a man whose trust is hard-won. Although he has painstakingly learned the value of others inhabiting the world alongside him, that doesn't mean he has to lie to himself about how competent they typically are. He is the sort of person whom many consider to be their friend, but does not consider many others to be his friend in turn.

Thus, the Garden.

As much as he would like to be an isolationist, that's no way to live. it's not conducive to good mental health, and if he grows to be unable to trust his own mind while he's working towards his goals, all would be lost (so far as he's concerned, anyway).

This blog is called "Smooth Geometry" because the members of the polycule jokingly refer to their group as "The Circle", a play on the phrase "circle of friends". But Jade prefers to think of them as either a petri dish (a "successful" experiment of his own design), or a garden.

The fact is that he vetted and put each of them through the ringer to ...mold them, in a sense. To direct their growth.

Jade would rather not make new friends unintentionally, and having this group satisfy his social (or other) needs severely limits the amount of bullshit or unexpected drama he has to handle. My personal headcanon is that he most certainly is a person with anti-social personality disorder; he's made his mistakes regarding socializing in the past, and gotten to the point where he's figured things out. His coping mechanisms are set, and they aren't the most destructive they could be. Having a specific group of people that he's emotionally involved in both reduces the outside drama he has to invest in (becaues he can't completely avoid it, lol), and gives him a controlled environment within which to indulge in his emotions so far as his personal interest.

Jade was able to make friends even in his source canon, after all. He has a clear grasp for interactions with others and what they entail/what others expect. Trial and error pay off, sometimes!

Anyways, he's gone through quite a bit, and suffered quite a bit more once arriving in this universe during The Great Reveal. He's a soldier and a survivor though, and has plenty of tools in his arsenal, and thus was able to build himself into a cushier life than most. Jade has in fact made a comfortable space for himself here, but that doesn't mean he's given up on potentially getting back home.

The Circle, his polycule, is full of people he loves (or would like to grow to love) in one way or another, but his priorities are still set neatly in order. They are quite carefully picked and cultivated flowers, so far as he's concerned, and he's managed to arrange (or is in the process of arranging) his garden into a peaceful place for himself, bloom by bloom. Jade would never argue that he's a good man, ever, but he can be a consistent partner if nothing else; that's better than most others by a wide margin, he thinks. Does he deserve it? Likely not. But he worked/is working hard to get these people and relationships in juuuuust the right places, and he's going to enjoy the convenience of that as he pleases.

#jade curtiss #the gardener #meta info #canon thoughts #when he's feeling particularly mean or haughty he refers to the other Circle members as his toys lol #but when he's feeing lovey he absolutely calls them flower #when more than two of them are on dates with him he sometimes calls them a bouquet #dont let jade fool you tho #he's dangerous and falling for him is a bad idea and even he knows it #faqs

2 notes · View notes

4lph4kidz · 2 years

Note

it's just interesting and funny how with one hand homestuck goes out of its way to say dirk cannot take the blame for bro's actions and in fact spends a metric ton of time on how people are shaped by their upbringings and how drastically people change based on that....... and then says "oh dirk? villain. yep. ultimate self is villain. mmhm."

idk so much of early act 6 goes fuckdeep into the people who can tell dirk and the ar apart, how they are treated differently, how they are different, and what all that means...... only to like forget its own lessons.

ugh i knowwww!! literally thinking about this exact thing is what singlehandedly led to me getting back into homestuck again!!!!

(apologies in advance because you caught me at a time where i'm not capable of phrasing things particularly intelligently, especially not when its shit i've been thinking about and obsessing over for almost a calendar year at this point)

i find dirk and the question of how different he is from his splinters and the crisis he endures towards the end of the comic absolutely fucking fascinating. and, well, he IS different. he has the chance to learn and grow when the other versions of him don’t! his arc is all about self reflection and self awareness and responsibility. he takes the idea of trying to be better so seriously, but he’s unable to even tell what he is and isn't personally responsible for and has no idea how to deal with that remorse in any way healthily. so he comes to view himself as an innately bad person who can’t be truly ‘good’ no matter his intention. he’s so damn hard on himself! he doesn’t even believe it’s possible for him to be happy, like he might be innately bad or broken somehow. and even though homestuck does offer a vaguely optimistic ending after that point, i think it’s still a heartbreaking conclusion for a damn teenager to come to about himself.

if it wasn’t obvious, i really like dirk, because for all his many fucking faults, he’s still a brave, funny, and deeply caring person who wants to do the right thing and look out for other people. in my view, he’s not heartless, he’s selfless.

...though it’s true that those noble motivations can absolutely be expressed and acted upon in harmful ways, which is pretty interesting. hussie was doing a whole thing with the striders and deconstructing the ideals of heroism that bro strider imposed on dave. to paraphrase the author commentary - dave’s arc is all about rejecting the stoic, self-sacrificing ‘unbroken sword’ version of ‘heroism’ that his bro embodied, in favour of what makes him an emotionally better person (represented with the broken sword). this is an ideology dirk obviously also contends with (not just bc he’s another version of bro - he grew up idolizing martyr figures, remember?) and ultimately, i think, also comes to deconstruct, if the Unbreakable Katana being shattered during their final fight is any sort of symbolic indication. god was that even relevant to this discussion? i have no idea i just think its interesting and have no filter right now

tl;dr he does make mistakes, but a lot of the worst things dirk is responsible for were either unintentional or perpetrated by a splinter self he had no direct control over. even though his splinters do reflect his worse personality traits and capabilities, dirk himself takes his responsibilities seriously, and does want to be better. no one is more critical of dirk than dirk himself is, that's the fucking CORE of his character, and i’m personally very fucking invested in the idea of him working on his flaws, reaching a better place emotionally and learning to live with himself.

it’s getting late and this is already too long so... i think i will talk about the ep*logues and the way they interpret the ‘ultimate self’ concept another time...

#ask #cypher.txt #i have a lot of feelings about dirk strider okay #this isn't even a particularly good response to the points you bring up tbh #anyway apologies if this is incoherent its like 3am and not even the siren song of hyperfixation is enough to make me lucid

21 notes · View notes

xiyao-feels · 3 years

Text

Nie//yao (MDZS)

So NMJ/JGY is actually getting two versions, because my read on them is wildly different for MDZS vs CQL.

In MDZS I...don't ship it? I mean, there just doesn't seem to be to be anything there at all of a romantic or sexual nature. It's not that they don't care about each other, they clearly do, but it's in a way that is...NMJ as substitute father, JGY as substitute brother, and heavily, heavily inflected by their (current and then former) relationship as superior and subordinate.

Putting this behind a cut because a) it's me explaining at breath length with quotes why I don't think they have a romantic or sexual relationship and I don't want people to have to see that unless they want and b) accordingly it is REALLY LONG and I also don't want to clutter people's dashes, so.

Actually backing up a step, I don't see MDZS NMJ as being attracted to anyone, that's not really specific to JGY. I tend to read him as aspec, tbh. So theoretically he could have romantic feelings about JGY without being attracted to him—I think he may have some quasi-romantic feelings for LXC, though I don't think he conceptualizes it that way—but... honestly, it's not really clear to me that he even likes JGY as a person.

I'm not saying he doesn't like JGY! He clearly does, at least before MY tricks him and flees. But it doesn't seem to have anything to do with MY's personality, as opposed to like—MY being really competent and conducting himself well.

Some quotes about what exactly NMJ values about JGY:

'Nie MingJue interrupted him, “I promoted you not because I wanted you to give back anything out of gratitude. I simply thought that you should stay in this position, since you are capable enough and your conduct is to my liking. If you really want to pay me back, just kill a few more of those Wen-dogs on the battlefield!”'

'After [Meng Yao] left [for Langya], Nie MingJue switched to another deputy. Wei WuXian, however, felt that the new one was always a few beats slower. Meng Yao was an unusually clever talent. He could understand what wasn’t said, and perform to the best with the simplest orders. He was efficient and never slacked. Anyone used to him wouldn’t be able to refrain from comparing him with others.'

'Nie MingJue was never close to people. He rarely opened up to anyone. Though he finally managed to obtain a competent, trustworthy subordinate, whose character and capabilities he approved, he found that the subordinate’s true colors were nothing like what he had thought they were. It was only natural that his reaction was so extreme.'

'Wei WuXian had once found it strange as well. Ever since Meng Yao betrayed the QingheNie Sect, the relationship between Nie MingJue and him hadn’t been the same as before. Then why did they later become sworn brothers? From his observations, aside from how Lan XiChen brought it up, having always hoped that the two would reconcile, the most important factor was probably the gratitude of saving his life and writing the letters. To be precise, in his past battles, he had more-or-less depended on the information that Meng Yao sent over through Lan XiChen. He still thought that Jin GuangYao was a talented person whom one would rarely come upon, and intended on leading him back onto the right path. However, Jin GuangYao wasn’t his subordinate anymore. Only after they became sworn brothers would he have the status and the position to urge Jin GuangYao, like how he disciplined his younger brother, Nie HuaiSang.'

Jin GuangYao spoke with dejection, “But, Brother, didn’t you hear what he said in the oath? Every sentence meant something more. ‘Face a thousand accusing fingers, be torn from limb to limb’—this was clearly a warning for me. I… I’ve never heard of such an oath before.”

Lan XiChen replied in a gentle voice, “He said ‘if one were to think otherwise’. Do you think otherwise? If not, then why should you worry over it so much?"

Jin GuangYao, “I don’t, but Brother has already decided that I do, so what can I do?”

Lan XiChen, “He has always cherished your talent, hoping that you would choose the right path.”

You might notice a recurring theme here: there's a lot of focus JGY's competence and conduct. But anything about who JGY is as a person? Not so much.

They clearly had a good superior/subordinate relationship going on, albeit one in which NMJ was missing a lot of context (see just behave well and show people up, plus the you're missing a solid foundation thing). But it does seem to be basically professional. WWX describes them as conversing "peaceably, even impressively" in contrast to "his future self, always being scolded by Nie MingJue" and "those jokes of how 'LianFang-Zun fled whenever he heard that ChiFeng-Zun arrived,'" and.... that's kind of it. The closest we get to them as friends is them talking together with LXC after NMJ tells MY he will give him a letter of recommendation and send him to his father; as WWX describes it, "The three chatted back and forth, at times serious, yet at times light. The conversation was much more relaxed than when they had been in the living room. Listening to their chatter, Wei WuXian often wanted to get a word in as well, yet he was unable to do so."

That's definitely not nothing! But it's also the most we ever get, only shows up the once, and is explicitly contrasted with their conversation from earlier. Moreover, I'm pretty sure LXC's presence is a necessary part of things; NMJ tends to respond differently to LXC than to other people (even just earlier in this chapter, we're told that while "Nie MingJue had never been one for humour," "in front of Lan XiChen his expression eased"), and WWX explicitly notes LXC's conversation skills in the context of this conversation: "At this point in time, their relationship really isn't bad. Zewu-Jun is actually quite good at holding conversations, so why is Lan Zhan so bad at it?"

In addition, I'd say that looking at the early part of that conversation is quite telling; while LXC and MY are sitting together as equals, MY stand up at once the moment NMJ interrupts, and doesn't sit even after NMJ tells him to do so (I think he probably does take a seat at some point, but the narrative doesn't actually tell us when). Moreover, MY seems to be worried that NMJ will be offended by a possible lack of gratitude on MY's part ("Sect Leader Nie, if you heard everything, then you should've also heard me say that..."), and the only objection he expresses to leaving is precisely that he owes NMJ a debt of gratitude, not anything to do with, like, missing him. To me all the evidence suggests that while they had a close relationship, it was not a /personal/ relationship, but fundamentally one of superior and subordinate.

(For a close read of the scene where NMJ, LXC and MY are talking together, I highly recommend @confusion-and-more's post here)

Moving on, let's look at after JGY becomes JGY. They don't seem to particularly spend time together with each other, certainly not for the sake of it. There's a brief moment at the Flower Banquet where NMJ asks JGY why he's wasting his time with XY (who has not at this point in time committed his crime, he just has a reputation), but after JGY makes his excuse and scurries away, NMJ turns away and doesn't seem to seek him out or even pay him any particular attention for the rest of the scene; he only shows up once more, and that's following WWX. (And although JGY-as-replacement-NHS would be a post all on its own, I do think it's interesting to note that the exchange about XY is immediately followed by LXC and LWJ coming over, described in a way that highlights both their impressiveness and their status at brothers—their Twin Jade-ness, one might say.) During the guqin scene, NMJ only speaks once, and it's to address LXC—to protest the inappropriateness of LXC leaking exclusive Lan techniques. When JGY shows up to play the guqin for him the first time, NMJ asks JGY "what did you come here for," which suggests that NMJ is not generally expecting JGY to come by without a specific, concrete reason. The closest they ever seem to get after JGY becomes JGY is during these guqin-playing sessions, and as WWX describes it, "when playing the guqin, the way that the two conversed and got along even had a hint of the peace they had before they fell out"—which is certainly better than there being no peace at all, but which I think suggests there's still at least some tension, given that it's only a "hint."

Now, NMJ certainly cares about JGY, both in the sense of desiring his well-being, at first, and absolutely in the sense of being emotionally invested in him—even after his death, as a fierce corpse his only desire is to kill Jin Guangyao. But while they had a close superior-subordinate relationship—certainly NMJ seems to have felt close to MY—at no point was it a close personal relationship, and I don't think that NMJ even liked JGY (or MY, I'm using the name expansively) as a person, let alone was in love with him.

But mostly so far I've been focusing in NMJ's feelings. What about JGY? Is /he/ in love with NMJ?

Once again, I just don't read him that way. This isn't to say he didn't care for NMJ—he absolutely did! He goes to quite significant lengths to save his life from WRH in the Sun Palace, including quite a lot of risk to MY himself—I analyze that in a lot more depth in the first part of my post here, if you're interested, though I will also note now that he specifically sent for LXC to help NMJ. (You'll have to scroll down some; I'm responding to someone else's post.) Afterwards, he kneels to NMJ and apologizes, I think sincerely, for hurting him and for invoking his pain about his father's death. He certainly conceives of himself as owing a debt of gratitude to NMJ for recognizing him, and he's so overcome when NMJ offers to send him to his father with a letter of recommendation, saying that he didn't promote MY so that MY would owe him, that he quite remarkably can't even find words. NMJ meant a lot to him, and so did NMJ's not defining him in terms of his birth—until he did, of course, at the stairs kick incident. But as far as I can tell, there's nothing to suggest he has /romantic feelings/ for NMJ, and frankly—how can I put this—it does not at all surprise me that JGY isn't in love with someone with a violent temper who is noted at least twice to react to people explaining themselves when he is angry with even more anger, and that's even without the thing where he nearly killed JGY on multiple occasions and called him the son of a prostitute.

No, I think JGY's emotional journey with NMJ goes through three stages: first, he's deeply grateful to him and respects him a great deal, although he's also aware of NMJ's lack of awareness of certain social realities (see: the teacup scene, NMJ yelling at the other Nie cultivators about their treatment of MY and telling MY not to worry as long as his conduct is upright); second, after Sun Palace, still gratitude and respect but also a mounting frustration with his lack of awareness of the implications of JGY's social position and his hypocrisy re: acceptable violence; finally, after the stairs kick when NMJ kicks him down the stairs, almost kills him, and tells him what else can be expected from the son of a prostitute, he is completely done with NMJ, but is still very much scared of him. The gratitude, I've discussed; the frustration, I think is fairly obvious in the speech he gives back to NMJ at the stairs. But I think the fear is often undervalued, so I'm going to pull a bunch of quotes again:

Meng Yao shrunk immediately after his previous outburst. Watching Baxia slash toward him, he sprinted off at once, scared lifeless. Of the two, one striked with madness and the other fled with madness. Both staggered, still soaked in blood. In such amusing circumstances, as Wei WuXian chopped at the future Chief Cultivator, in his heart he split his sides laughing. He thought that if not for how Nie MingJue was under heavy injuries and lacked spiritual power, Meng Yao would probably have been dead already.

Baxia’s strikes were so menacing that Shuoyue had to unsheath. Lan XiChen stopped him, half to support his figure and half to block his attacks, “MingJue-xiong, calm down! Why bother?”

Nie MingJue, “Why don’t you ask what he did?!”

Lan XiChen turned around to look at Meng Yao, his face was full of terror. He stammered as if he didn’t dare speak.

Nie MingJue remained silent, while Baxia and Shuoyue continued. Meng Yao took a glimpse at the glares from the clashes of the saber and the sword, his gaze full of fear. After a while, however, he still took a step forward. He kneeled to Nie MingJue.

A moment later, Nie MingJue still raised his saber. Lan XiChen, “MingJue-xiong!”

Meng Yao shut his eyes. Lan XiChen also tightened his grip on Shuoyue, “Please excuse…”

Before he could finish his sentence, the silver light of the blade slashed down violently, onto a boulder on the side.

Meng Yao flinched from the thunder of the boulder splitting apart. Looking over, he saw that it had been sliced into two halves, from the top to the bottom.

Jin GuangYao nodded. Xue Yang had been infamous ever since he was young. Wei WuXian clearly felt Nie MingJue’s brows knit even tighter. He spoke, “Why are you wasting your time with such a person?”

Jin GuangYao, “The LanlingJin Sect recruited him.”

He didn’t dare to protest any further. Excuse being that he needed to care for the guests, he scurried to the other side.

[part of his speech to NMJ at the stairs] You think that I should be afraid of nothing? Well I'm afraid of everything, even other people!

Within the temple, three people called Nie MingJue’s corpse ‘Brother’ but the three tones were drastically different. Jin GuangYao’s face was full of a drowning fear. His entire body began to shiver. No matter dead or alive, the person Jin GuangYao was most scared of was none but this sworn brother of his whose temper tolerated no evil. As his body shivered, his hands shivered as well, and the bloody guqin string he clutched tightly in his hand also began to shiver.

Clenching his teeth, Jin GuangYao struck a few acupoints of his arm. Amidst the dizziness that came from a loss of blood, he suddenly saw Nie MingJue walk a step towards him, his eyes locked on him. He was immediately half-dead with fear.

Collapsed beside Lan XiChen, Jin GuangYao saw this scene as well. Whether because the bleeding and the pain intensified at his arm and stomach or from some other reason, the glisten of tears could be seen in his eyes. But before he had a chance to catch his breath or lick his wounds, Nie MingJue turned around after he pulled his fist back and stared hungrily in his direction.

The harsh, stern expression on his rigid face held a sense of judgement that was no different from before he died. Even his tears had been scared away as Jin GuangYao turned to Lan XiChen for help, his voice trembling, “Brother…”

I think the stuff with, you know, handling NMJ's fierce corpse and hanging onto his head is often viewed as evidence of JGY's continued emotional investment in NMJ, but... I don't really think so? First of all, NMJ's fierce corpse is completely obsessed with killing JGY. I'll spare you another round of quotes on that because this is already ridiculously long and because it's not at all subtle—it's all over the temple chapters, take a look! And second of all—well, there's ways of getting information from a corpse. In this case, NMJ's resentful energy is so strong that without the protection of his body, papernan WWX is actually sucked into NMJ's memories against his will! Sure, maybe no one would risk it, and maybe no one who risked it would survive, but especially given that NMJ's fierce corpse is completely obsessed with killing JGY, that's a heck of a risk to take. And look at the description of the protections around NMJ's head:

Suddenly, Wei WuXian noticed that one of the shelves were blocked by a curtain. The curtain was covered in sinister, blood-red runes. It was a talisman of forbiddance, one of extreme power.

Jin GuangYao walked over and lifted the curtain.

For a split second, Wei WuXian thought that he had been exposed. After the faint firelight made its way through the curtain, he found that he was enveloped in a shadow. A circular object just happened to be in front of him.

Jin GuangYao stood still, as though he was staring into the eyes of whatever was inside this shelf.

After a moment, he spoke, “Were you the one looking at me?"

Of course, there couldn’t be any response. He was silent for a while, then let down the curtain.

Wei WuXian quietly attached himself to the object. Cold and hard, it seemed to be a helmet. He then turned to the front. As he had expected, he saw a pallid face. The one who sealed the head wanted it to see nothing, hear nothing, speak nothing, and so incantations had been crowded onto the waxen skin. The eyes, the ears, and the mouth were all sealed tightly shut.

There's containment, it's suppressed to all hell and back, and JGY quite justifiably expects it to be murderously obsessed with him, but to me it doesn't suggest a reciprocal obsession—just more fear.

I'll also note that as a strategy for containing the information about his own involvement it's a very successful operation! It failed in the end /eventually/, but the failure needed:

someone who could successfully break into his private treasure room and escape without being caught

who could also perform Empathy or a similar tecnnique on NMJ's head and survive it

who could successfully recreate from memory the altered Empathy song

whom LXC would be willing to listen to

That's a heck of a tall order!

As to being done with NMJ after the stairs, well, listen to what he says to LXC:

[...]

Jin GuangYao, “It’s not that I don’t know what’s right and what’s wrong, but that sometimes I really can’t help. Nowadays, I have it bad no matter which side I’m on. I have to ensure that I’m on everyone’s good sides. I wouldn’t care if it were someone else, but have I mistreated our eldest brother in any way? Brother, you heard as well. What did he call me?”

[...]

Jin GuangYao was almost sobbing, “If he could say such a thing when he was angry, then just how does he think of me on a daily basis? Is it that because I couldn’t choose my background, because my mother couldn’t choose her fate, I’ll have to be humiliated by others throughout my whole life? If so, then how is Brother different from the people who look down on me? No matter what I do, in the end, just a sentence and I’m ‘the son of a prostitute’.”

And then of course there's what he says to LXC, in his speech to him at the end: "You, on the other hand, ZeWu-Jun, Sect Leader Lan, are as intolerant of me as Nie MingJue—you refuse to spare me even a single breath of life!"

So—wow, this got very long—I don't ship them, and although I think they have very much mattered emotionally to each other, I don't really see them as ever having been in love with or attracted to each other.

A couple of end notes:

In MDZS, NMJ isn't the first (non-MS) person who recognizes MY's worth, although he is the first person to promote him; by the time NMJ promotes MY MY has already met, rescued, and exchanged intimate confidences with LXC, who respects him greatly and thinks he is highly talented (see again the conversation in Hejian which NMJ overhears/eavedrops on).

I've seen people talk about them not understanding each other, but while NMJ certainly doesn't understand JGY, it's not at all obvious that the reverse is true; he generally seems to understand him pretty well. I think he has two surprises overall: first, that he wasn't expecting NMJ to say he didn't promote MY so MY would owe him, and volunteer to send him to his father with a letter of recommendation—and second, he wasn't expecting NMJ, who for all his flaws did seem to ignore JGY's background in good ways as well as bad, to call him the son of a prostitute.

I definitely don't read the coffin at the end as romantic. Or I mean, uh, there's the romance of an obsessive stalker-murderer finally getting his victim, and that's not nothing (unironically; look, I'm a Hannibal fan), but I don't think it's usually what people mean. This is a shitty end for JGY, part of how thoroughly he loses and is destroyed. I think to some extent it might be that he doesn't want LXC to be the one who killed him, and to some extent it's an act of defiance—now that he has nothing to lose, not even his life, he's going to go out fighting. I would expand on this but this post is ridiculously long and I have way too many quotes, maybe I'll do it in a separate post later on—but if you look at the description of it in the text, plus the subsequent description of it in the coffin...yeah. JGY didn't want to die, he didn't want to be engaged in a mutually destructive thing with NMJ; he wanted to leave NMJ behind in the past, and move on. It's not, for him any kind of fulfillment, is my read.

All quotes are taken from the Exiled Rebels translation: ch 48-50 for everything about NMJ and JGY's past relationship, ch. 47 for the description of JGY's containment measures for NMJ's head, and ch. 106-108 for the quotes about JGY's fear of NMJ's fierce corpse. The description of JGY going into the coffin is at the end of 108 if you want to have a look, and there's more in 109 and 110 about the difficulty of sealing NMJ's fierce corpse/its power and violence.

#ship meme #ship negativity #this is so goddamn long #how many quotes can I fit in one post? dear god #also there's no way the coffin is actually staying shut for 100 years see ch. 113 #also I didn't want to rely on material that isn't in the final text but if you do look at the scene of JGY cutting NMJ's head off #the same theme of NMJ's fierce corpse's murderous obsession + JGY's fear are very much there #also I'm not sure I'd call it a notp exactly? like obviously I don't see it but there are versions of it I can kind of enjoy #but I figured I was being well by all accounts it doesn't make sense enough that I wanted to circle it as like. a warning XP #we can't change places #anger burned in his heart #more than one tag could contain #long meta

28 notes · View notes

toflyandfall · 4 years

Note

YAY :D! OK, I wanted to please ask what your thoughts were on Dick and Shawn's relationship. Did you feel it was in character? Did you feel it made sense? Did you want them to last or did you feel it came out of left field and didn't make any sense? How did you feel about the pregnancy scare and how they broke up ("I know what I said/did was shitty but we can fix this. We can make this work!") - does it sound like Dick? I'm also happy ur still here. I'm so used to asking you & Shelly so thank u!

I'll be honest with you, anon--DC burnt me hard with the Spyral travesty and then putting Tom King on Batman and keeping Seeley on Nightwing, so I don't keep up with current DC comics. I don’t enjoy them and nearly without exception I don’t find them to be written well or in character. However, you're very sweet and I want to help fill the meta void in your life, so I read through Dick and Shawn's arc together and here's my analysis.

I’m dividing this into two parts. The first half will be as objective as possible and analyze your questions on whether Dick seems in character, what he says during the break up, etc. It’s roughly chronological, starting when we first meet Shawn and continuing through to the break up itself.

The second half I’ll put under a readmore, as it’ll answer your questions about my more subjective opinions about the arc.

Let’s start by looking at Dick’s previous and most happy relationships to see what good indicators for an in-character relationship would be.

Getting physically involved with someone -before- having a secure emotional connection with them is not in character for him. All of Dick's major relationships have been preceded by extended periods of mutual flirtation and bonding before physical overtures. His most significant and longest lasting romantic connections began by building emotional and romantic attachment before sexual intimacy, frequently paired with a shared history together that precedes even the flirtation.

There’s significant canon evidence that he’s demi sexual: a comprehensive, though hardly exhaustive, collection of it can be found here and here (the latter half of the second link relates to the Grayson series specifically, but overall it offers a nice long view on his relationship history since character creation and also addresses beyond-canon factors at DC that impacted some relevant canon writings.) Whether you use the label demi for him or not, it’s canon that he’s not comfortable jumping into bed without a secure emotional connection.

So let’s look at Shawn’s relationship with Dick through the lens of relationships in which he was the happiest and most comfortable. Those relationships have these things in common:

He has a stable, safe emotional connection to the individual.

He is willing and comfortable engaging in banter and flirtation.

Relationship is based on mutual respect and affection, often paired with shared history together.

Now, let’s look at Shawn’s relationship.

Their ‘history’ together (as Defacer and Robin) is antagonistic, and their interaction in the past leave Dick feeling uneasy. Sure, he seems to think about her situation, but as this panel reads, the kindest that can be said of any emotional connection there seems to be here is one-sided pity.

Nightwing #10 (Nightwing: Back to Bludhaven)

Once they meet again, she’s his boss. Even or perhaps especially in the world of #MeToo, it’s important to address workplace relationships, particularly boss/employee scenarios, with care and sensitivity. Seeley sidesteps this by just…having her later quit the non-profit she founded and giving Dick her position for a while. However, even if she’d just worked in HR at an equal level with him when they met instead of being his boss, let’s look at the amount of participation he shows in their first meeting:

Nightwing #10 (Nightwing: Back to Bludhaven)

There is a lot of her talking and almost none of him. He’s not engaged in their interaction here. Where he tries later as Nightwing to engage more personally, he’s immediately shut down. The most dialogue we hear from him is in his own head—in their first meeting, the ratio of her dialogue to his is literally 22 sentences to 9. Of those 9 sentences, one is a lie he gives to avoid establishing an emotional connection with her, another she interrupts, and three of which were less than five words long: “Sorry.” “You can call me Dick” and “Thanks, Ms Chang”. Even taking the workplace environment into account as best we can, this is not meeting any of the three criteria for Dick to be feeling emotionally attachment or attraction. No one would look at those 9 almost-sentences and that flashback and say, “Ah yes, this man is deeply infatuated with her.”

This is made even more jarring by the fact that the internal narration frequently doesn’t match the actual scenes we’ve witnessed.

Nightwing #11 (Nightwing: Back to Bludhaven)

Nothing about the few sentences Dick has managed to finish around Shawn when this narration comes up has said ‘attraction’, physical or otherwise, but the dialogue here reads like Dick was laying the flirtations on thick every time he saw her. Same with when they talk about the flashback scene later. There’s a lot of cognitive disconnect between what Seeley wants to tell us happened and what we actually see and hear and have evidence of between the characters.

If you’re wondering why I’m examining these initial interactions with particular depth, it is because frankly, these are the most interactions the two have together for roughly the first five issues of their ‘getting to know each other’ phase...and when they reunite at the end of those issues, we are supposed to believe they are already heavily, life-changingly in love. So, for all intents and purposes, this scattered handful of conversations is all we have to analyze to examine whether this fits the qualifications for whether Dick would feel comfortable and emotionally attached enough to approach a physical relationship.

We have three chances in their various guises for Dick and Shawn to meet and start developing that all-important rapport. This is our first initiation to their relationship and it certainly doesn’t read as a positive one. The next one, she yells at him and kicks him out—again, a whole page of her dialogue to a fragmented sentence of his. The third one, the flashback panel posted above, they don’t even speak to each other. Two of them are actively red-flags of being unable to establish a closer connection with that person; the third is a neutral connection. This is not the kind of two-way interaction we see where he’s comfortable and interested in someone, and this is not an emotionally secure connection.

Shawn disappears for three issues or so, during which they have, obviously, no interactions.

The very next after that, by the end of it, she lunges into him to kiss him.

The next issue after that, they’re evidently in honeymoon heaven and already shacking up.

Trust me, we’ll be going over that under the readmore later.

Back in the area of the objective, if you ever need to know the number of days Tim Seeley thinks is needed for two people with self-admitted enormous trust issues to form the ideal Hollywood manic pixie dream girl relationship, we were given a careful timeline.

68 days—first date

Nightwing #15 (Nightwing: Back to Bludhaven)

62 days—first intercourse.

Nightwing #15 (Nightwing: Back to Bludhaven)

Six days. Not even a week.

They’ve met each other, then met each other’s parents and are living together and are one baby scare away from the suburbs in less time than it takes for someone to finish a semester at college. It took literally longer for the issues of Nightwing where Shawn was an absent character in her own arc to get published in our real lives than it did for their on-panel romance to go from not even knowing each other to Nightwing (not Dick, but Nightwing) kissing Shawn (not Defacer, but Shawn) upside down in the middle of the city.

Trust issues, amirite?

Nightwing #15 (Nightwing: Back to Bludhaven)

Meanwhile during that mostly off-panel ‘dating’ period we have these wildly out of character moments. In particular, there are two noteworthy things.

Shawn says she never would have pinned Dick for being a traditionalist.

That directly contradicts…well…most of the statements people close to him have made of his dating views, and also his own self-stated views of them, whose top tracks include things like “…this might sound unhip, but I feel strange about living with someone I’m not married to”, “I gotta be honest, Roy—I couldn’t make love to someone I didn’t really love”, and “Love should be between two people”.

We have a direct parallel of an in-character Dick moment walking someone home after an early date to use for comparison.

Nightwing #31

Things Dick does in this panel: reassures his date there is no pressure for sex and the night will not be ending that way, plan out just about the most traditional date experience, and engage in light-hearted mutual bantering.

Additional relevant context around this panel: Dick and Clancy have known each other for months and have a friendly, mutually respectful connection. Dick’s turned down a sizable number of invitations from her because despite living in the same building, the vigilante life made it difficult for him to make and keep plans. This is their second date because Dick had to bail in the middle of their first. It took months both in comics-time and in real-time of developing a mutual interest to lead up to that first real date. And by then, the reader is invested in the status of that relationship, too.

To contrast the then vs now, we also have in that same moment with Shawn Dick, of all people, ignores a phone call without a second thought in favor of trying for a booty call. On the first date. Let’s take a look at Dick and Clancy’s first date, 9 issues earlier than the one we just saw.

Nightwing #22

Dick is a chronic workaholic, with all the associated inability to disconnect from his work while in relationships even during date night or intimate moments. It’s perfectly reasonable, considering that with his lifestyle choice, that phone call could be life or death for someone he loves, a stranger, or many, many someones, and it’s put significant strain on his past relationships when dating those not actively in the superhero lifestyle. Clancy is, again, a great example of this--despite genuine interest on both sides, he blew her off at least half a dozen times because of vigilante emergencies before they even got to their first date. And then despite their great rapport and a genuine interest in being there, he still ditched her in the middle of it when his phone rang.

What we see in Seeley’s Nightwing #15 not only runs directly contrary to significant chunks of his history and personality, it also tells a deeply upsetting story of a world where exists a horndog Dick Grayson who would risk other people’s lives to get laid with a chick he’s known less than a week.

They handle vigilante interruptions more in character in later issues once the relationship is established, but...yikes.

Not in character.

We’re going to take a little jump here to move from discussing whether their relationship is in character for Dick to whether their breakup was in character.

In general, it actually is pretty in character for Dick to panic himself into commitment in a romantic relationship even if he’s not really sure about it. Dick is very interesting that way: he runs away from platonic relationships under tension, either by throwing himself into casework or by literally setting up in a new location. If his romantic relationship is undergoing trauma, however, he's very capable of reacting the opposite, like in this example with Kory.

Team Titans #2

There’s even an awkward Devin Grayson incident where he thinks a woman is serial-murdering her husbands, fake-marries her to solve the case, uncovers the real killer who wasn’t her, and feels bad enough afterward that he offers to date her for real. (An interesting side-note: this makes Devin Grayson responsible for not one but two of Dick’s emotionally compromised almost-marriages. This one, at least, came before she jumped the shark with the dreaded Catalina Flores arc.)

Nightwing Annual #1

So let’s take a look at where Shawn’s exact circumstance falls in against those.

To me, the lines that sound the most like Dick are actually the lines he says that cause their break-up.

Nightwing #23 (Nightwing: Back to Bludhaven)

Dick has a lot of darkness and anger in him. He’s a lot like Bruce and he’s a lot scared of how much he’s like Bruce. We’ve seen several timelines where Dick’s had biological children and we’ve also seen how he tempered Damian’s darkness when Bruce was lost in the timestream. Though this arc and timeline does not show it well (and that’s a whole different meta), we have the advantage of having known how Dick behaves as a father in a way this particular Dick has never had to experience. And we know that when kids are in the picture he does work hard at repressing or concealing his anger and darkness to be a good role model, often in a way he isn’t sure he has the capacity to do when there are no children involved. Despite some of the specific phrasings being iffy, the general sentiments here do feel like legitimate concerns Dick would have.

With this knowledge, that moment felt significantly more honest to Dick Grayson’s character than most of the rest of their relationship.

Nightwing #25 (Nightwing: Back to Bludhaven)

The actual break-up dialogue itself is…well, it’s not out of character, exactly, because as shown, Dick has been known to clutch onto potential romances hardest when he feels they’re about to slip away. But the delivery of it isn’t in character. Yes, in general, Dick has a temper and he lashes out. However, he’s clearly aggressive and angry in this panel, where previous experience has showed us he should be at his most emotionally vulnerable and pleading. Dick, who is a generally emotionally closed-off person despite his extroverted demeanor, reacts to these kind of romance scares by showing emotional vulnerability in ways he frequently is unable to do during the relationship itself. And the panel that he’s apologizing for as being a crappy thing to have said, is…as mentioned, the panel that comes closest to a consistent Dick Grayson.

And the thing they’re fighting about is that Dick missed a job interview because he was doing Nightwing things. Shawn fell in love with Dick knowing he was Nightwing (somehow), he’s been Nightwing the whole time they dated, constant interruptions and all, but she breaks up with him because somehow 'the thing I always loved most…you.’ apparently wasn’t one that included the Nightwing schedule. She also seems to be both blaming him for wanting the baby and also accusing him of not wanting it. At the risk of getting off-topic and subjective, I’ll be honest and say Shawn’s dialogue here makes no sense to me at all.

Dick’s tried not being Nightwing, in both pre-52 and new-52. Dick spends a fair amount of pre-52 time either bouncing from job to job or lacking a day job entirely. In both pre-52 and new-52, the Dick she’s claiming is the one she’s always loved the most…doesn’t exist anywhere I can think of. Certainly not anywhere during their on-panel relationship.

Now that we’ve looked at what we see of Dick and Shawn on-panel, it’s time to talk about the impact this has off-panel.

I happen to have been re-reading a lot of Chuck Dixon’s original Nightwing’s run lately. And here’s the thing. Clancy’s been showing up consistently in that run as someone Dick could be attracted to for for oh, about...two full graphic novels now (that’s 17 single-issues) and they haven’t so much as gone on a date, let alone shared a smooch. It takes 20 issues before they make it to the first date we saw from Nightwing #22. I don’t remember if she’s in every single issue of that period, so I’m going to round down by probably a lot and say that’s a minimum of a year when this was getting published for us as readers to get to know her and how she interacts with Dick, to get interested and invested in a potential relationship. In comics-time, it’s weeks before Dick actually sees her face, not just hears her voice. Even if you’re reading post-publication like me, that’s hours and hours where we watch she and Dick bond and banter and develop a mutual interest.

That’s build up. That’s emotional investment developed over time.

I’m not saying every single relationship has to take more than a year’s worth of issues on-panel to develop. However, she does summarize one of the single biggest struggles for DC’s cadre of writers over the last few years. Basically, the problem I have with this beyond just the characterizations is the same that made me stop reading from New 52 onward: DC constantly trying to skip out on the process of creating meaningful emotional build-up or connections but still expecting to cash in on an emotional payoff.

You can’t go from ‘kissed once’ to ‘been together for years like an old married couple couple vibes’ off-pages like Nightwing #15 tries to do. Even if you expect the readers to believe the protagonist now feels that connection (which, frankly, I don’t), we don’t have that connection to the relationship. It’s a cheap paper cutout with no actual emotional content behind it--why should we care if it tears under pressure? We have no stake in it; we don’t know why the protagonist has a stake in it. It’s meaningless.

As a reader, my experience with Shawn and Dick’s relationship is as follows: a) they meet in a scenario where she is his boss (strong do not date vibes) b) they meet as vigilante and paroled ex-villain and she doesn’t even let him finish a sentence (would not date) c) they show a flashback where they don’t even speak to each other (Robin pities her; no ‘date/no date’ vibe data gathered), d) they share a confusingly out of nowhere ‘emotional’ moment that didn’t match up with my prior understanding of either what I extrapolated from the flashback or what I saw in their on-panel interactions (vibe check, please??) then she disappears for several issues into police custody (no ‘date/no date’ vibe data gathered) The very next time she sees him, she betrays him (STRONG do not/would not date). Then all of a sudden at the end of that issue she kisses him.

My context for their relationship is based on two ‘emotional’ conversations of dubious quality and consistency, one ‘look’ where their dialogue contradicts my own understanding of the on-panel events, a shouting match or two, and a very major betrayal that just happened to work out alright for everybody but is never actually addressed. Most of her introductory arc where we’d be piecing out how she fits in with Dick and how they interact together, she isn’t even there for. They’ve known each other for less than a week. I the reader have known them for, in my case, maybe an hour of read-time.

And the very next time I see them, I’m supposed to believe, and more importantly, feel emotionally attached to the fact that They Are The Most In Love Couple To Ever Be In Love.

Trying to put a timeline on intimacy as a gimmick instead of establishing genuine emotional connection never works. Yes, maybe we knew that one person in high school or know someone in college who falls hard and often and met and married someone within two months, but Dick Grayson has never been that person. Maybe this style of flashback manic pixie romance would be more believable if they’d tried it on a different character with a different history and personality, but it especially never works on a character like Dick Grayson with a strong history of being slow to decide his feelings and even slower to jump into bed.

In order to work, the entire arc that follows with the kidnapping by Pyg is predicated on the fact that I, the reader, am supposed to already care about Shawn’s relationship with Dick, and that I, the reader, believe in the validity of Shawn’s relationship with Dick and in Dick’s commitment to it. But I haven’t been given time or reason to do either of those things by the time that arc starts.

You cannot shortcut relationships and expect them to be meaningful to the reader.

So they threw in a baby. Because even if you don’t care about a relationship, everyone cares about babies.

Throwing in a baby to up the emotional stakes is just a further step up that same problematic cheap-shortcuts ladder I was talking about: like in a stereotyped failing marriage, if you feel like you have to add a kid just to put meaning into your relationship again, maybe what you actually need to do is take time and consider what that relationship is built on.

#dick grayson #dc #nightwing #meta #tim seeley #panels #o.c.#relationships #asks #anonymous #analysis #shawn tsang #character analysis #relationship analysis #long post #love and relationships #I realized toward the end I hadn't addressed the pregnancy itself very much but I covered the jyst of my thoughts on it in the readmore #Dick's reaction to it felt like it was separate from his relationship to Shawn so I stuck to what it seemed like you were more interested in

20 notes · View notes

death-of-the-self · 6 years

Note

Are you the one who does Hide theories? If so why not make a last theory about Hide's and Kaneki's eye, just for fun? If you dont know what I mean, let me explain. In the sewers with Hide, that eye we see covered in shadows up in shown in this current chapter along with the text saying 'I always looked to you'. Hmm... I'm not explaining this well...

You got the right person if you were thinking of the one who drew Hide’s probable damage assessment.

These are the tg/re: theory / analysis page I have :

❂ Character Theories

Hide and Kaneki analysis for the end of times.

This is very likely my last ever tg/ tg re: analysis seeing as it’s coming to an end, and hopefully most things will be resolved /explained with the last chap or some type of afterword of Ishida’s.

As per usual this has a lot of Hide mentions.

At first I was confused by this, anon. Then I realized I hadn’t read the newest (Second to last chap) and now I get what you want me to talk about.It spiraled into a bigger analysis that I hope is engaging to anyone who happens to read it.

Topics :

Kaneki’s eyepatch being present during the Arima fight

When was the ghoul mask Hide gifts to Ken salvaged?

Hide’s inability to speak to Ken right before the Arima battle

Who is the voice behind “I’ve always looked to you..” Ken hears in 178 re:

Kaneki’s selfishness

Butterflies and Hide’s expression

What will likely happen in the last chap

Hide as a teruterubouzu

Hide’s likelihood of surviving mentally or physically

Sourcing chaps 134/136/ 138/139 of tg and 144/164/176/178 of tg re +

So, I went back and read into it.And checked to see if there was anything that could be analyzed.

Then I remembered, that there used to be a theory going around that Hide was speaking to Ken through some type of transmitter after the attack.

That he might have placed that eyepatch Ken suddenly shows up wearing to the Arima fight.

I’ll break that down based on what I see, but long story short, Hide didn’t put that on him.

The Eyepatch:

pre Amon fight : on

Post Amon fight : still on under the organic matter

During the sewer scene : On and off (to show anguish but not actually removed)

Right before Hide shows up: He takes it off himself during the

“i’m the one being consumed scene”

When he notices Hide : Organic mask back on but it can be assumed he dropped the actual mask in the sewage.

Which would make sense, Hide likely recovered that same mask he later on gifts him in re:

That mask though, also has the eyepatch it comes with attached.

And the one we see with Arima is different from what I can discern.

The moment Hide touches him : No sign of that ghoul mask or an eyepatch under.

The Hide pep talk:

We know what happened in the sewers between Ken and Hide in regards to damage, it messed with Hide’s face and vocal fold.

We also know for a fact, that Hide was not following Ken to his final destination.

The question now is?

The voice Ken heard.

Hide was unable to communicate with Ken, transmitter, or not, so this :

This is in Kaneki’s mind associating his own thoughts with those that Hide would likely say (see: Fantasy ‘you’re ripped’ Hide)

Hide managed to sneak a few lines in like those above, before the ‘kiss’.

Always looked to you…

When it comes to Ken’s human eye and seeking association with the eyepatch that appears out of the blue on Kens eye before the Arima fight.

While Kaneki is engulfed by the massive current of dead cells and likely silently drowning as the current pushes him down the path he climbed–

He hears a voice.

And right after we do, we see Touka looking out of the window, anticipating his return.

Now, my first thought was that it was somehow something off screen, Touka might have said to Ken.Which doesn’t add up knowing her behavior and dialogue pre sex.

But, then you might ask, who the heck would be saying that.

‘Always’ implies someone has been there prior to Kens ghoulification surgery.

It could be a part of himself speaking out to him, which, to me, would be underwhelming and a bit unecessary at this moment.

It would also imply Kaneki’s bastardized version of D.I.D was present as Kuroneki, which trauma noted would not be weird, but would not add up with what we know of Kaneki.

Ishida after-all fills the manga with foreshadowing.

chap. 144 re : Before he turns and kills many innocents and plays right into Furuta’s plan.

Losing the chance to imply that was a thing early on would be unlike what we see of his writing.

With only one chapter left, Hide being back and a big question-mark looming over who ‘kissed’ who in the sewers….

The idea that Hide was on his mind just like in the sewers would not be far fetched.

Possibilities :

A conversation off screen post reunion

A talk they had when they met in the sewers, a wonderful build up to the last chapter including said scene before it all gets resolved.

something that his rendition of Hide in his mind would do is not far fetched.

Kaneki will likely die and Hide is aware.

Chapter 178 shows us a butterfly twice.It looks like the sky has cleared and as though everything will go well when Saiko and Touka hold hands and hope to see Ken together.

However, this is a tragedy and we know things aren’t that simple.

The butterfly isn’t a simple of peace.In Japanese culture, amongst other meanings,

“Butterflies are closely linked with recently departed spirits”

and though that could be about Rize and or Furuta…

it could just be a death flag for the protagonist.

Tg re: has been rumored to be planned with a happy ending but what if the “happy” ending is for humanity and ghoulmanity and not for Kaneki himself?

What if Kaneki gets to die after securing offspring?

chapter 176 re:

The whole pregnancy / child shenanigan screams that to the reader, life will go on, history has and will likely repeat itself in small arcs that envelop bigger ones.

Human / Ghoul Peace has been momentarily achieved (thanks Hide and Furuta sorta) but other issues surely will arise.

Much like the non canon ending of the Root A anime, in which everyone in battle seized the fight as a ghoul held a human friend in his arms.

It’s a tragedy, it is very likely that Kaneki will die after having at least become aware of the damage he has done upon the country and his best friend.

chap. 164 re:

After finding a reason to live.

Having Hide facing away from the monitors, sweating and concerned instead of celebrating, towards what looks like the butterfly outside the building, is a bit telling.

As well as other scenes throughout the manga…

Additionally, Kimi seems concerned with what she has been monitoring, it might have to do with Kaneki’s rc cells and the toxin engulfing him and skyrocketing them.

chap 176 re:

Hide’s likelihood of surviving this mentally or physically?

Link source to sellable teruterubozou’s

A final note in regards to him, we saw his scarecrow outfit.

link to my gif post

The symbol of anonymity on the face (henohenomohenji) and the resemblance to teruterubouzu’s.

link to full art

Who:

“Traditionally, if the weather does turn out well, a libation of holy sake is poured over them, and they are washed away in the river”

According to a Japanese reading friend of mine, they might even get candy.

And what happens when the sun doesn’t come?

She said they cut the head off.

link

And well my research tells me she is right :

“Teru-teru-bozu, teru bozu/ Do make tomorrow a sunny day/ But if the clouds are crying/ Then I shall snip your head off”

There is also one origin theory that is quite harrowing :

“However, after promising good weather to a feudal lord, the sunshine did not appear as promised and the monk’s head was chopped off as punishment. It’s said the monk’s head was then wrapped in cloth and hung outside to stop the rain and bring out the sun.” (From the same link source I added above)

So what does this mean for Hide? He fixed so much in Kaneki’s absence.

In a way he brought the sunshine, but Hide’s purpose is not world peace, everything he does, he does for him.

So what is his payoff? Letting him be swept by a stream of water?

or maybe he will be decapitated somehow trying to help Kaneki one last time?

I say if you kill one off, have them be together in the end.Living without Kaneki would be terrible considering how emotionally invested Hide is.

#hideyoshi nagachika #hidekane #tokyo ghoul re manga #tokyo ghoul re #tokyo ghoul re analysis #tgre analysis #tg re theory #Anonymous

164 notes · View notes

helloandwelcometomariasblog · 3 years

Text

Review #91: Sister

Written by Xiaoying You, Directed by Ruoxin Yin

Sister immediately caught my attention for two reasons: It's an Asian film, and it's about family. After watching the trailer, I knew I had to go see it at the cinemas. There seemed to be aspects of it that I really liked - family members unable to love each other with nobody specific to blame. I really wanted to know how the characters would resolve that. And so I went to see it.

I was disappointed and not invested maybe a third of the film. I was slowly won over during two-thirds of the film, then by the end, I was bawling. Really. And the film remained with me for a while after that too.

The reason I wasn't invested at first was, I think, pretty simple. The main character was such a biatch. Yes, I understood her - she had enough reasons to be that biatch, but nobody actually wants to see the main character really be one. We could all see why she hated her brother and why she felt she wasn't responsible. We could all see that she wasn't loved as much as her brother was while her parents were alive. We could all see that her family members were also inconsiderate, pushing her to take care of her little brother despite the abuse she herself had gone through. We could also see that her brother was being a pain from time to time, and that she had her own life and her own plans - she was smart and wanted to be a doctor and also get married to her long-term boyfriend.

BUT. But despite all that, the second most important character is a little boy. A child. Moreover, he's a child who has just lost both parents. He doesn't even know what death means, what grief means, and here he is thrown around like a soccer ball, from heartless person to heartless person. And nobody wants to keep him. I just couldn't empathize with the main character when here was a child who was being forced to live through grief and constant abandonment by himself. Like what the fuck? Maybe I was even more angry because I have a little brother with around the same age difference. I don't think I could ever give my brother up to adoption regardless of whatever happened between me and my parents. Hating parents is one thing, abandoning a child is another.

Also, that child just went through something incredibly traumatic that even adults struggle with. Of course he needs more care and attention during this time. But he doesn't get it (in fact he gets the exact opposite, right in front of his face) and you're surprised and angry that he's acting out? That's his way of crying out for help. And what does the sister do? Become a biatch, that's what.

I just honestly could not empathize with her. And this lack of empathy and relatability made it initially very hard to become immersed in the film. I constantly found myself empathizing with the little brother instead and feeling really sorry for him. It really didn't help that he was a child. Children already have the image of being helpless and weak, and the film put that child in an even more vulnerable situation with a sister who literally wants to abandon him and overtly hates him. Like, come on.

This sister slowly starts changing as the film progresses. It's true that the beginning of the film may have been more realistic than others. The sister had issues she had to resolve within herself and the film may have just shown that in the most dirtiest and realest way possible, with no sugar coating. If that's what the film intended, I gotta say it succeeded. I'm just glad I stuck with it because it was incredibly cathartic seeing the sister heal herself as the film goes on. It surely doesn't happen immediately though, which I loved. It took quite a long time (which is probably why the film is over two hours long), but it was time well-spent, and more realistic too.

The sister goes back and forth many times, but that makes it even more real. There are moments when she advocates for her brother and takes care of him, and then the next moment she's back to wanting her own life and giving him up to adoption. The back-and-forth movements become more and more dramatic as time goes on, and the sister finds it harder and harder to emotionally detach herself from her brother. The film does all of this gradually, which is one of its strongest points. It reflects real life better.

A standout scene for me is when the sister goes to visit her brother after sitting her exams, and she finds her brother playing mahjong with a damn cigarette tucked behind his ear. I honestly gasped at that scene, and would have reacted exactly the same way the sister did - yell and scream at the uncle and drag little brother out of there. We're then led to a really heartwarming scene where the sister bathes her brother at the apartment during golden hour, sunlight pouring through the glass. I'm trying to remember the dialogue during that scene. I'm sure it was something really warm.

What I also loved was how, even after this heartwarming scene, the sister still decides to leave to Beijing. It felt way more realistic than some other family movies where it doesn't take much for the person to give up their desires for the younger being. It's shown during another standout scene where the siblings lie in bed, having a talk before going to sleep. The little brother asks her if she still wants to go to Beijing and why. The sister answers honestly and we can all tell that she really dreams of this life that she's planned out. The sad thing is that the brother is included in that 'we'. I didn't know during that scene, but in the following scenes, I realised that he understood exactly what his sister wanted.

It was really crazy how the little brother left his sister on his own accord and gave himself up to adoption just so his sister could pursue her dreams. As much as I loved that beat, I found myself seriously wondering: is that realistic? That a six year old boy would be that deeply sacrificial? He's probably the most sacrificial and loving character in the film, even more than his sister. It was a great beat though, one of the best in the movie. It was heartbreaking seeing him cry, unable to tell his sister why he chose to leave her. It was like a drama scene where one of the leads forces themselves to leave their partner and be all noble and sacrificial. Still not sure if it's realistic for a six year old to do that though. It's kind of sad even thinking of it. A child doing something even most adults wouldn't do. The brother really had to grow up and mature at a super young age. It's sad. I wonder what kind of teenager and adult he will be in the future. I hope he gets to resolve the hurts inside of him too as he grows up.

And so the sister actually buys the ticket for Beijing and prepares to leave. Again, I loved this. I loved how the film took us till the very end of the end before resolving things. The film really made us believe the sister would leave. And to be honest, I understood her and didn't blame her for deciding to pursue her dreams. I sat there wondering how they would actually resolve things. The ending scene is definitely one of my favourites, maybe even the favourite. I loved how the sister was given an ultimatum: you can leave, but if you leave, you've gotta sign the paper to say you'll never come to see your brother ever again. It was a great choice. There was so much at risk on both sides. It was a moment where I genuinely wasn't sure what she would do - I knew she loved both her brother and her dream and held both of them dearly. Both of them were precious.

I held my breath when she hesitated, pen hovering over the paper. Then she throws the pen down and runs out to her brother, and when her little brother turns to her, his eyes are full of tears. My heart. My heart. My damn heart! I bawled there, the tears just flowed. The brother had been pretending to be okay and holding all tears back, thinking that his sister would feel bad if she saw him cry and she'd give up her dreams. That's just too much for a six year old, I swear. He finally lets it out when he knows she still wants and loves him. That was both incredibly painful and cathartic to watch. What an amazing climax and resolution.

I also liked how the sister resolved her own deep issues before finally going back to her brother. I believe it's shown in the scene where she visits her parents' grave on the rainy day and cries to them. There was a hint of the start of her healing when she cries and lets out her honest feelings during night in front of her parents' pictures. The rainy day she rips the paper and is again honest to her parents' grave, is a great scene. I also loved the part where she comes down the stairs, and it's a long shot with rainwater flooding down the steps like a beautiful waterfall. It made me want to film something like that in the future. Felt like things were being washed away.

So yes, I started off not liking the film because of how unlikable the main character was (they're allowed to have negative qualities, but I honestly believe there needs to be something that makes the audience identify with them or empathize with them, just something that makes the audience root for them) and her treatment of her brother. I know it was done that way to show her gradual change, but I still do think it could have been done a little differently. Because, even with her treatment of her brother aside, I didn't really like her as a person and had trouble understanding her. She seemed really tantrum-ey at points. But as the film went on, I warmed up to her and the gradual change took place. She was still herself with her own desires even while growing to love her brother, which I loved. She learned to balance things out, and I hope she continued to pursue her dreams even without going to Beijing, with her brother by her side.

I find that this film presented a different image of 'sacrifice', and that it was saying that different image was okay too. You don't have to fully give yourself up for someone. You can still have your own life and that's okay. By the end, none of her family members guilt-trip her about looking after her brother, which I really liked. It's pretty rare for Asian families to not do that guilt-tripping thing. But her aunt did it. Her aunt, who seemed to be the most guilt-tripping person, let her go in the end and told her that it was okay, that not everyone fits that image of sacrifice perfectly, like the Russian dolls. I think that actually enabled the sister to go back to her brother later on. Sometimes you have to let people go to get them back.

#review

0 notes

jimlingss · 6 years

Note

I'm literally crying-- I HAVE A C IN CALCULUS!! I got a 90% on my last test and i have a C now!!!!! I had a D before cuz i got 53% on my first test and i am so so happy i am /passing/ i usually get straight A's and some B's and this is the first time i've been this stressed about just trying to pass a class and i am just, so so happy i burst into tears wow. And you came off hiatus-- this is like, a sign! Your presence blessed my grade :')

*applause* you go girl! It may not be the perfect mark but as long as you’re satisfied and you know it’s the best you can do then that’s great! I know the pain of math all too well ._. but honestly it’s so satisfying to get good marks. sometimes when I see a row of 90′s or 100′s…man that does things to me. (and there’s my nerdy side)

honestly as a kid I really loved receiving report cards loooool

myjeansareonfire said:I’M CRYING AND YOU’VE JUST POSTED CH3 OF BEYOND REACH AGSHXFDJSKX OHMYGOD I FEEL REWARDED I’M SO HAPPY 😭😭💖 (why am i like this lol)

YES! IT’S A REWARD. (*shifting eyes) I totally planned it this way with my psychic abilities…ha…haha….

myjeansareonfire said:Ohmygod i’m a sobbing disgusting MESS 😭😭 i was finally able to lay down and read this in piece and that was probably the second or 3rd most painful think i’ve ever read. First of all, i’m personally someone who really craves physical affection. I honestly start feeling kind of depressed if i go too long without seeing my friends or my significant other because they’re the only people who i feel comfortable receiving physical affection from. It relaxes me, makes me feel safe and happy (1/5)

every time i you mention the way hoseok wants to be able to reach out and touch y/n, comfort her, ruffle her hair, help taehyung off of the ledge of the bridge, it honestly really makes my chest ache. And then.. The way jimin wanted to get taehyung off of the roof ledge, ohmygod, that hurt so much. Just imagining how hard he was trying, how hard he was crying, the tears streaming down his face, his voice going horse from yelling at him to get down.. It was honestly so freaking painful (2/5)

I’m curious as to what’s the most painful thing you’ve read. but yeah honestly I didn’t mean to make the chapter that painful…it just ended up turning out that way. It’s honestly up there with my top angst written pieces.

And I’m really glad you understand the severity of the ghosts unable to touch. Sometimes I wonder if I did enough but it seems like you understand so that relieves me.

Personally, I’m not a touchy person at all. Last time I received a kiss was probably a decade ago by some relative on the cheek and it’s been about a decade too since I’ve actually hugged someone hahaha I’m one of those ppl who cringe away, do that weird half hug thing and say they don’t like hugs but honestly…..it’s hard to admit but sometimes I crave some sort of physical affection too - I’d feel weird to ask for it though. Like it’s awkward with family members and me and my friends don’t ever touch each other hahaha maybe someday when I date or something. plus, pshh…I can give myself a hug. (this just got real deep and personal but if you’re talking about your own experiences, I will too haha.)

i think my tears freely started flowing when i realized tae was going to try to kill himself. And just imagining how painful it was for tae to deal with the fact that jimin killed himself after he told him too… Ahh this was just such a difficult thing to read 😭 also i 100% agree with hoseok on that wall between him and y/n… The way you describe it, it’s almost palpable. Y/n is just so closed off and distanced, i personally feel closed off from her 😂 (3/5)

i feel like she just has this ‘don’t fuck with me’ aura but not for the reason people would think. She already has to deal with dead people, i can’t imagine the hell her life would be if she had to deal with annoying /living/ people too. I really hope that y/n will slowly open up.. Or at least to hoseok. (also i just feel like i really cannot express how damn sad it made me to picture jimin being that torn, lol.. :’( i don’t think i’ve read a fic that devastating for jimin before this) (4/5)

I’m sorry it’s difficult to read, I know it’s very emotionally draining. That’s why I’m not very surprised at the low amount of notes and feedback. I’d rather people not read if they’re uncomfortable. At the end of the day, I write for myself so I’m not dwelling on the “results” much.

But yes! No spoilers but we’ll definitely find out more about Y/N’s character. There’s 3 chapters left!! Originally actually, Y/N was a very happy person and ready to help everyone and everything but after I edited the second chapter I didn’t like her character at all and thought it was extremely unrealistic so I did a complete 180 which I became more satisfied with. The OC is a very interesting character.

As always, a beautifully crafted chapter 💖 i adored it all, and i’m sorry i didn’t send the asks while i was actually reading it this time.. I just didn’t want to interrupt the flow of the story at all. I just felt so drawn in to what what was happening. I’m dying to know more about hoseok tho!! *sends moral support to hobi* you can do this!! Remember!! I believe in youuu! 💖 (can’t wait for ch 4! :3) (5/5)

No! It’s really fine if you send a message after or during. You don’t know how much I appreciate receiving these, any of them, regardless of length or time and I read each word carefully with a huge grin. I’m truly honoured to have you as a reader, don’t worry about messages, thank you! I’m even happier to hear that you were so invested, you couldn’t pull yourself away.

Overall, my thoughts on the chapter….I’m a person who values family HIGHLY above friends. I don’t have that many friends, really only have one true close friend while the rest I’m not so close to. But while I was writing this, I truly began to assess the relationships I have in real life, with my own friends and man….I cried really hard editing the chapter. I did two edits in total and cried in each one. These people that I often take for granted, I’m now actively trying to value them and…*sigh, I’m getting too deep into this.

Secondly, usually in fics, it’s all about romantic relationships. There are friendships but typically not the main focus. I’m also responsible for writing weak friendships, throwing them in for the sake of just throwing them in. But I realized writing this how powerful friendships can be. With romantic relationships and family relationships, there’s almost an obligation there, either strong feelings binding you to the person or through blood relations, all the history. But with friendships, there are no obligations…you’re there because you simply want to be. AM I MAKING ANY SENSE? I dunno, just trying to say friendships are really powerful, this chapter hit me hard too….glad you enjoyed :’))))

#im sorry for writing so much #this is like a novel on its own #my rambling #myjeansareonfire #Jimlings

2 notes · View notes

kardemomme-kisses-archive · 7 years

Note

Hi :) I think I sent a message to the wrong person :/ lol Anyway, I just wanted to talk about Even and his decision to break it off with Isak without any explanation. Imo he really should have told him. Isak thought that maybe he had done something wrong and he deserved to know at least why Even ended it. I adore Even but it wasn't right imo. I'm just defending Isak I guess :)

Hey there ! Yeah don’t worry I saw the ask answered on the other blog but since you asked and I have a lot of feelings on the matter I thought I’d offer my twenty cents anyway :)

Here’s what I think about this scene:In my opinion it is a clear case where the way skam operates, presenting events via the pov of the main character, influences the way we view things. Which is why it’s also very succesful in making us identify with the main (maybe even over-identify if some of the posts i see flying around tumblr are any indication heh).

And we really do feel for Isak in this scene.Because well, for Even to use the ��moving too fast” excuse, especially after being the one to take the first step in solidifying this relationship the day before was a rather transparent lie , wasn’t it?And it certainly doesn’t help that as we know Isak suffers from crippling insecurities and self - doubt, (how surprised and relieved he acts whenever someone shows that they care and they accept him exactly the way he is ! still a punch in the gut for me). So it was only natural that he would start blaming himself for driving Even away, pondering over their conversation again and again confused,worrying about it to the point where he couldn’t sleep. Because they had it so good before, surely surely it must be something he did to ruin things and oh god he always ends up ruining things…But as agonising as it was for us to watch him being so sad and dejected … well partly it was his fault wasn’t it?

Because of that hurtful comment on mentally ill people which he had no idea would hit so close to home for Even. And it’s not that I don’t understand where he’s coming from -living with someone he couldn’t take care of and was consequently unable to provide emotionally for him most definitely caused some trauma. No child should bear such heavy responsibility alone especially when they have no idea what they are supposed to do. Still, it was a pretty terrible thing to say and ableism aside, generalisations and ignorance often cause more damage than being malicious on purpose.

Now, if we consider Even’s pov here… I don’t think he was in an emotional place where he would find the strength to come clean to Isak after that statement. It must have taken a lot of courage for him to leave Sonja, his whole support system he had been dependent on for four years, his aluminium leg and the only way of coping he knew. And he was willing to do it, willing to jump into the unknown with Isak because he had been building up his hopes and dreams for months now, he was finally finally in a place where he allowed himself to felt truly happy, truly hopeful that this boy felt the same way. That maybe they could take it one step further, maybe Isak felt that connection too and it was enough for him to stay through thick and thin because for a moment he did make him forget how alone he had always felt. So he went all in only to have those hopes crushed in the cruelest way. Because when Isak said my life would be better without mentally ill people in it Even heard my life would be better without you in it and that was as clear a rejection as it could get. After that I don’t think that he was in a place where he could put himself emotionally out there again when he was sure Isak would want nothing to do with him.

Of course you can argue he was selfish in a way because he raised all his walls back up to protect himself, because he couldn’t face Isak outright cutting him off . but in my opinion he saw how hurt Isak was by the way his mother’s condition had impacted his life and he wanted to protect him from further heartbreak when he would have inevitably found out about his mental illness . Given how little he thinks of himself when he’s experiencing the lows (”i will hurt you and you will hate me”) I think this is exactly what happened - he saw their relationship was doomed to fail and he tried to rip off the band-aid as soon and as painlessly as he could. Honestly, Even probably underestimated Isak’s feelings and level of investment in this relationship, thinking that it would be easier for him that maybe he would feel spurned for some time but he would eventually get over it( which is why despite everything that was going on in this scene he threw caution to the wind and came back to Isak after he saw how much of a toll this separation had taken on him).

All in all (where did my point go? did I even have a point?), the way I see it, it’s not really a situation where we can say one of them is clearly in the right or wrong you know? After all it takes two to communicate and here they both made mistakes; Isak put his foot in his mouth first and then Even wasn’t honest with him either and it snowballed from there.But that’ s okay, they’re humans, they’re flawed, they make dumb mistakes sometimes! And frankly I don’t believe it would have been any easier if Even was honest right then and there because isak was completely unprepared to be there for him - even though it hurt a lot they both had to go through his experience to grow more mature and learn from their past mistakes so they could truly become the best for each other.

#anyway honesty is the best policy and if they just talked then things would have been easier for all of us #but nooo they had to be emotionally stunted idiots :ppp #anyway i have no idea if this is what you wanted it's 4 am and i'm rambling #oops #asks #3x05 #themerlinarthurlovestory

2 notes · View notes