#and i want them to share screentime no matter who their romantic endgame is
Note
Don't get we wrong, I feel hopeful too, specially with the whole network change because it means the series has an actual shot of going back to the way it used to be. I feel like lately the emergencies don't have that spark anymore, so I'm looking forward to see what ABC does with them. Also, let's cross our fingers and think that they'll actually give a damn about promo and they'll use (at least in social media) what attracts more attention... I mean, if the answer is a couple of firefighters that are raising a child together, I wouldn't mind.
However, what makes me mad is that by the time they were working on the finale they weren't sure if they were going to come back or not. From what it looks like, all the characters will get a sort of happiesh?) ending just in case, because again, the ABC move back then was not a sure thing.
They did that with The Resident. Sure, at first it was supposed to be a season finale, but they still did an ending that could be interpreted as both options: season finale or series finale. Well, it was cancelled so at the end they at least got a chance to leave the characters in a good place.
That's what will happen with 911 this season, I believe, because after almost six years the show at least deserved a decent ending if for one reason or the other they were not coming back.
My point is, we know that it's not going to be an open ending, and that all the characters will be left in a good place. I know there are a lot of possibilities, but we are talking about miss Kristen Reidel, it wouldn't surprise me if Buck and Eddie end this season with Natalia and Marisol, representing a "traditional" conclusion for both characters.
It wasn't hard to leave them single, if she truly didn't want Buddie to happen, but she just had to bring two random characters for the last four episodes of the season, right? If I follow her previous patterns, what will happen is that for the general audience, Buck and Eddie will end in "heathy" relationships with Natalia and Marisol, but they will share a significant moment together that's up to interpretation for the internet. Classic queerbaiting behavior me thinks.
I'm aware that now we are far from losing the war, especially if we consider that ABC has a different target audience and that they actually tend to listen to them. So, Buddie truly has a chance of happening now.
At the end, what I'm trying to say is, I feel optimistic for the ABC move, but I'm also frustrated because if that had been the series ending, that woman would have given a poor conclusion to Buck and Eddie just because yolo?) There was no reason to have those two random characters with them.
Buddie has a second chance, but I hope and pray to the universe that ABC will realize what they have in their hands and even if *she stays, they will overule her bad takes, not only on Buddie, but for the show in general, that move was not a cheap one. If they really want for the series to last, changes need to be made.
It's also sad to think that if they had stayed at FOX or if they had cancelled the series, we never really had a chance to win, huh. Homophobia will always prevail, no matter what.
The thing with this, anon, is that mostly I think it's a really fair reading of what's been going on. I just read the information we have really differently.
I definitely agree with you that the emergencies have been meh for a while now, but to me that's just a symptom of being 6 seasons deep into a procedural; a new network might breathe a little more life into it, and I hope it does, but I've never watched a show through a network switch so I'm pretty 🤷🏻♀️ on how much it's gonna affect the actual content. Def hoping for more promo though.
I get what you're saying about all the character's getting a "happy-ish" ending because they didn't know about season renewal but....isn't that always how it is? Like, I don't personally see much of a difference between where it seems they're gonna leave off 6x18 than any of the other finales we've had.
And I get why a finale where one or both of the boys are in a relationship with a woman would be disappointing if we're reading it from a "they thought this might be the last episode they were ever making" angle (but I am BEGGING someone to show me what KR has said or done that makes y'all believe she hates buddie. Because I was watching casually through most of s5, I missed all that. And from the show itself, I don't get that impression at all. I am genuinely asking PLEASE i need context). But, while I've always been a buddie girlie, 6b is literally the first time I've ever thought they might actually do it. And I've been really confident since 6x13 and the interview about the couch being in play until the very last scene of the season (and still am) that the closing shot of this season is gonna be the three boys on the Diaz couch. It's just the only thing I see as a possible resolution. Not to say you can't read that as a "open for interpretation" fan service moment, but until I know exactly why people think KR is fundamentally opposed the idea of buddie together, I'm gonna be reading it the way the text tells me to.
Because while I've become a bit of a buddie truther in 6b, they're not in a place where getting together by the end of the season would make....any sense. A lot of people disagreed with me on that, but that's been my stance since like, early s6. Just cuz there was no development for them in the first half of the season at ALL, and we knew how jam packed 6b was gonna be with other plotlines with other characters. They've got a lot of growing to do before buddie canon would even be satisfying imo. I just really believe we might be on that track now.
And with that in mind, here's my perspective on the ending IF they were writing it thinking they might never write another episode again: Buck can and should end up alone at the end of the season. He should really concretely know what he's looking for, in the way he didn't when he dumped Taylor. Having Buck explore the opportunity to date someone who is fascinated by his experiences but not actually interested in him is a great way to do that, imo. Him walking away from that and realizing he needs to find someone who will, in Oliver's words, meet him where he's at. I really cannot see Natalia being relevant beyond the finale at all, and if I'm wrong, I'm gonna start seriously questioning the writers, because they've told us she's not it for him (like, even my friends who watch the show very casually were screaming "NOOOOO!!!" at the screen every time she was mentioned in 6x15).
Eddie's more complicated though. Let's say, hypothetically, they realized midway through shooting 6b that renewal wasn't likely with Fox, and they didn't know whether or not they'd be picked up by another network. Eddie's been on this little journey of self discovery about wanting a partner, and has accepted the fact that he's lonely. Ending the show with Eddie in his single status quo would be sad as hell for the GA! We have to remember, we are not the only ones watching this show, and the vast majority are not seeing buddie as romantic options for each other. That can change, I really hope it does change, I am optimistic that it WILL change; but it hasn't yet. If they were trying to wrap things up nicely, with everyone in a pretty good spot, I can see why shoving relatively-underutilized Eddie with a nice girl would be a good way to do that. Easy to undo if they got a s7, but also a lot easier to convince the GA of a love interest for Eddie being good for him, just because he's not as big of a deal to the show (which I hate. I love Eddie I want him to have the world. But Buck is the main character on this show, let's be real)
That's not to mention that this is all speculation; we don't have any idea what's gonna happen with these two women. I'm standing pretty firm in my belief that they won't end the season in relationships, but I could be wrong. And if I'm wrong about Eddie, I can see why they'd make that choice and I'm not even a little mad at it. If I'm wrong about Buck, and he ends up in a clearly doomed relationship with Natalia, I'm less cool with that, but I can see the opportunities for s7 and assume that they were working under the assumption that they'd get a renewal somewhere. If Buck ends up in a seemingly perfect and happy relationship with Natalia, my faith in the writers is gonna plummet, not because queerbaiting, but because they told us it was doomed in 6x15, and it would make it clear to me that the writers don't even know what kind of stories they want to tell on a micro, episode to episode level. But I really can't imagine that happening.
#anon drop by with your thoughts anytime id love to hear what you think after next ep and the finale too#i don't really wanna touch the word queerbaiting with a 10 ft pole#because i do get the concern#and i get the reaction#but i don’t think its queerbaiting at all#because these two guys are best friends#and theyre each others partner in the main cast of the show#even if theyre both married off to other people we're gonna get the canon couples and also buddie when they divide episodes like that#and thats a really good thing to me? because i love them#and i want them to share screentime no matter who their romantic endgame is#and do i feel like the show is dangling a carrot on a stick in front of me sometimes? yeah#but thats because they're besties and im watching with them with romance goggles on#my real concern is the couch. i am so hyperfixated on the couch that if that resolves poorly i might lose my mind a little#and not even in a 'if its not buddie im gonna be disappointed' way. just in a 'use the metaphor well or so help me god' way#moral of the story is im having more fun with the show now than i have since joining the fandom#and im really confident in the season finale#and i REALLY want someone to drop the KR receipts so i can form an actual opinion on her stance#911 spec#911 spoilers#911 fox#buddie#long post#ask a bean#bean brain
7 notes
·
View notes
Note
Which one sounds more delusional:
In the last shot you can see the characters placed in a obviously staged composition where there's 3 couples. Coincidentally, two of them (jancy and jopper) are of romantic nature, and the other one (Byler), placed between the other two, has shared a storyline of romantic connotations for the whole of this season, so it makes sense to assume that this is foreshadowing endgame couples
Or
Here we can see El placing herself forwards because she's the only important character on this show. The other 6 people just randomly put themselves in whatever position behind her because they are not important so it doesn't matter where they stand. Coincidentally, two of them are a couple (jancy and jopper) but it doesn't matter duh. El's boyfriend is also behind her because his role is just to be her supportive boyfriend, of course. She isn't standing by his side like jancy and jopper, but it doesn't mean she wants to break up with him even though she wasn't speaking a word to him in the literal previous scene (that was just a coincidence and it doesn't mean anything because he said I love you!). The bowlcut kid who's also not important and was kidnapped and possessed by Vecna just because it was a coincidence (because there obviously can't be a reason since he'd take screentime from El in season 5) just didn't have a place to stand, so he placed himself next to El's boyfriend because that was the only other free spot. So there's 3 pairings in the shot, 2 of them romantic but the one in the middle is obviously platonic and the Duffers didn't intend to place them together at all (they are not that smart!!). So this shot may...uh...it may be foreshadowing...umm... Oh yeah! It's coincidental, but at the same time it's intentional because it foreshadows that there will be 3 groups in season 5: the adults, the teens and the kids!
OBVIOUSLY they played eeny meeny miny moe to determine where the characters would be in the last shot and it means nothing bc the only possible way you can tell stories is through dialogue and the dialogue is always 10000% literal and authentic to what the character believes!!
blocking, framing, set design, costume design, lighting, colors, music. those all mean nothing!!!!! 🙄
43 notes
·
View notes
Note
Hey, i love your blog and reading your thoughts on all things Buddie and there’s something i would love to have your input on. I don’t know if you saw posts like this, too, but there is an ongoing trend of people stating that there are two ways the show can go on with this, and that’s 1) keep on developing Buck and Eddie’s relationship (essentially leading to them becoming canon) or 2) untangle and distance them from each other and build up other love interests as the most important person in their life, leaving their friendship to be only referred to and rarely shown. And while i absolutely get where they are coming from and have seen mainstream tv taking that second path many times (don’t expect it from 911 though, i have faith in those writers)i think it’s simply not true that these are the only ways to write Buck and Eddie’s relationship going forward.
It absolutely is possible to keep their relationship as it is and still write different love interests for them. There will be less scenes with them together and I sure won’t fucking like it, but there is no need to have them become less important to each other. I hate that so many people seem to be not only of the impression that the most important person in someone’s life always HAS to be the romantic partner, but also that this place can’t be shared with someone else, like a best friend or some other platonically beloved person. I hate that people seem to be convinced that this is some kind of popularity contest that the love interest wins by default and that getting in a relationship with someone automatically makes your bond with others less important, automatically makes you invest less in those relationships. Not saying that that can’t happen, it sadly does quite often, but in 98% of those cases it’s because of a severe lack of trying from one party. It’s truly not in the nature of friendships that they deteriorate when not the sole focus of a person, you just have to be willing to put a little work in.
Anyway, rant over, would love to hear your thoughts on that matter.
hi, nonnie! first off, i'm so glad you like my blog and want my input on this! i do have a lot of thoughts on this, so here we go!
i have seen these takes going around, and while i don't necessarily disagree with them, i do agree with what you're saying. i don't know if buddie will go canon, but even if they don't, i highly doubt the show will shove their relationship to the side to prop up their new love interests. because look. the show has had every—and i mean every opportunity to take a step back from them since s2. they could've kept them at the place they were in the s2 finale, cute and shippable but not necessarily something fans would get invested in. they did not have to go as hard as they did with the tsunami and lawsuit arc. they didn't have to take every opportunity possible to cement them in each others' lives. these were all conscious choices, and this relationship is clearly too important to the writers to throw away just because both of them have new love interests. putting the rest under a cut:
onto your main point, while i don't really care for buddie staying platonic since they don't behave like other platonic relationships on the show and we have enough of that in media already, if they were to stay completely platonic, i don't see their relationship being diminished or undervalued by the writers and idk why people think that. it's like you said, just because you enter into a romantic relationship with someone else, doesn't mean your friends become less important. platonic love is only a different sort of love, not a lesser form. the writers have put way too much work into developing the buckley-diaz family unit, at the expense of buck and eddie's respective love interests, for them to suddenly sideline them completely in s5, regardless of whether they stay platonic or not. eddie was dating ana for about half a season and his relationship with buck never wavered, it only got stronger even. a bunch of the big buckxtaylor moments were overshadowed by buddie completely. whether you want to read buddie as platonic or not, their relationship with each other isn't gonna become any less important just because they have different love interests (who are side characters to boot, and won't even get as much screentime as either of them do. and this is assuming ana even shows up next season.)
It’s truly not in the nature of friendships that they deteriorate when not the sole focus of a person, you just have to be willing to put a little work in. this is so true, and in buck and eddie's case, both of them have always put a lot of hard work into their relationship and fought for it, in one way or the other. it hasn't been all sunshine and roses (contrast that to eddie's it's easy being with her in reference to ana). they're definitely not gonna forget about each other just because they're dating other people, especially in light of the finale.
i think a lot of this thinking ultimately boils down to heteronormativity. people are quick to assume that the m/f ship will automatically 'win' and receive better treatment than the bond between these two men, whether these people are buddie shippers or antis. people were (and still are) so hesitant to refer to buck, eddie and chris as a familial unit, but instantly jumped on the bandwagon after a couple of cute scenes with eddie, ana and chris. and i'm not trying to dunk on anybody—everybody is entitled to their own opinion and i respect that—it's just that its very telling that two men can go through so much together, form an unbreakable bond over three whole seasons, be completely devoted to each other, form a sort of a family unit along with one of their's son, have the other one who's not a parent yet even so fill in a parental sort of role, and people will still insist that seeing anything more is delusional, while automatically accepting that two women who have been on the show for about 6 episodes are gonna be there indefinitely and that the m/f ships are definitely endgame, and the bond between these two men will be sidelined in favor of that. it's all a very black and white sort of thinking, people need to understand that the story is deeper than that.
thank you for sharing your thoughts, nonnie!
30 notes
·
View notes
Note
D, H, I, N, & T because I am curious and greedy 😘
i love it 💜
D - A pairing you wish you liked but just can’t (again: be nice)
hmmm this is a good question. I can’t really ever get 100% behind a ship that’s like half of one of my OTP’s with somebody else. It’s not that I can’t like it, but it’s never endgame. So I’ve read and loved some great BuckyNat and I love this one fic where Steve and Nat sleep together as friends but I can’t like SHIP SHIP them because Stucky is embedded into my soul. I live for Stiles having a slutty phase and sleeping with the entire fucking world, so I’m cool with reading him with other people, but Sterek is always gonna be endgame for me. So yeah. I’m a sap, I guess. SamBucky is probably a good example of this. They’re cute and funny and people are gonna ship the shit out of them bc Mackie and Sebastian are hilarious together and they will actually interact on screen for more than three minutes (gasp!). And I get it! But... I can’t. Not really. I’m going down with that Stucky ship, man.
H - What is your favorite source text for fandom stuff (e.g., tv shows, movies, books, anime, Western animation, etc.)
oooooh another good one. TV Shows! So I’ve never been intense about a fandom except the MCU and then Teen Wolf. So I’m working with like 42 total minutes of screentime and approximately 19 words of dialog from Bucky in all of that. For my favorite character and half of my OTP. Which is fucked. We get some great scenes...but not very many of them. So it’s been fun to get into Teen Wolf which I’m still not even done watching. My OTP over there ALSO only has like 5 seconds of shared screentime, but there’s more little shit and more character development and more quirks and more randomness I can pick up on because there’s just more there to work with.
I - Has tumblr caused you to stop liking any fandoms, if so, which and why
whole fandoms, no. but I’ve gotten good at blocking and unfollowing people because there’s a whole lot of drama and bullshit out there. I only really interact with a handful of people who are chill and lovely and I prefer it like that. Fandom is my happy place and my escape, so if people are ridiculous I’m pretty quick to tap out. I’m just here to reblog pretty gifs, keep up with my fave writers, chat about silly fandom things, and stare at hoechlin’s delicious thighs. bucky’s too. gotta love a man with nice thighs. what were we talking about?
N - Name three things you wish you saw more or in your main fandom (or a fandom of choice)
So in general, I ALWAYS want more accurate/authentic mental health representation, more bi/pan representation, and more characters that are just fuckin’ crazed by their horniness...I need be on your dick right now or I’m gonna DIE dramatics just peak thirst I love it.
Teen Wolf deals with mental health horribly (I’ll give that I appreciate that Stiles talks openly about having anxiety and panic attacks which is HUGE especially for a male character his age BUT) - ADHD is a joke, horror movie mental institution, a pretty girl kisses a boy to stop his panic attack (what), a character with HORRIFIC trauma treated as a joke and multiple other characters use that trauma or ignore it and trigger him, where to begin with Derek/Kate etc. etc. etc. so I’d really love to see more fic that addresses...any of that....well. And there is some great stuff out there! But I’d like to see more. Same with Stucky. Steve and Bucky have infinite trauma. Please let them deal with that.
I feel like every character on teen wolf is bi? Almost? So...gimme all of that. Always here for that.
OH MY GOD one more - ALWAYS give me more good kink. It is so fucking hard to find good well written kink and BDSM fic and I love it so much.
T - Do you have any hard and fast headcanons that you will die defending, about anything at all (gender identity, sexual or romantic orientation, extended family, sexual preferences like top/bottom/switch, relationship with poetry, seriously anything)
There isn’t much that I’m so intense about I can read/think about/accept anything else. If a fic sets it up well enough I’ll happily go on the journey of Steve being a unicorn. You just gotta lay that fuckin’ groundwork, man. Make it make sense and I’m in.
I’m not intense about sexual preferences ever (I just want everyone to bone how doesn’t really matter), but the closest I’ve come to having a strong preference is just my absolute LOVE of bottom derek. Almost everyone writes bottom stiles but OH MY GOD I am just a complete and total whore for bottom derek. or sub derek. or both. i can’t. I just want Stiles to take care of him and make him babble and whine and beg and I’m gonna get inappropriate I’ll shut up now.
OH WAIT I HAVE ONE. Papa Stilinski is a good fucking dad. He doesn’t do everything right (he’s a fucking cop) but he’s a good dad who loves his kid and is trying. He’s also not an alcoholic. I have alcoholics in my family. One scene where he drinks whisky in front of his teenage kid doesn’t make him an alcoholic. Stiles’ wolfsbane nightmare/vision thing is exactly that - a nightmare. Scott saw Allison fucking Jackson. Allison saw her killing...herself. It’s a nightmare...a projection of fears. Stiles worries about his dad and about everything being his fault, so that’s the vision he gets. Don’t shit on Papa Stilinski he’s lovely.
fandom asks | ask me
8 notes
·
View notes
Text
ZEP SPOILER PREDICTION?
POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD, SO BEWARE...
BASED ON EPISODE 1x01 - 1x10 + MY PREDICTIONS FOR 1x11 - 1x12
LONG & RANTY POST. NOT SO “POSITIVE” THOUGHTS, SO BEWARE:
So... I’ve had this “feeling” since the Pilot & I kinda got confirmation for my theory in this weeks episode. And if I combine it with the s1 finale (1x12) episode summary, then it could fit, because “Zoey tries to stop something bad from happening” according to the description.
Everyone thinks that that’s related to her dad, but... ever since that spoiler came out, I’ve suspected it’s related to someone & something else (even though it is pretty certain her dad will be gone at the end of ep 1x11 or early 1x12). I think that’s a reference to something Simon related instead.
Zoey’s first “real” interaction with Simon was in the Pilot episode, when she heard him sing “Mad World”. In the latest episode, 1x10 he sang the same song again. And I am predicting that the song MIGHT even be heard the third time during the season...in the finale. (or maybe she’ll just come to realize why she heard him sing that again.. in 1x10)
We’ve seen how Simon has been unable to deal with his grief, to move on, to let go. We’ve seen how it has destroyed him, his relationships... everything. And if we listen to the lyrics (original song by “Tears for Fears”, the extra sad newer version by Gary Jules), and think of Simon’s behaviour (he really is the great pretender”!...as demonstated well in many little scenes in 1x02 & 1x03...for example), I think it’s possible he’s gonna try to go down the same path his dad did. And that’s the “bad thing” Zoey is trying to stop in the s1 finale.
On this note: I can’t believe that Zoey still hasn’t figured out why Simon was put in her path..at this time. She’s not just supposed to help him, he’s supposed to help her. She’s supposed to learn from him and not make the same mistakes (since she’s not figured that out yet, she’s going down the same path as he is). Simon has been avoiding his grief, and it has made him a mess. He’s not talked with anyone about it..really, he’s not talked about it with his loved ones, and it lead to destroying himself, and his relationships.
And guess what Zoey has been doing...ever since we met her? She’s avoiding dealing with “her daddy issues”, and it has made her a mess, and ruined many of her relationships (best friends, relatives...). Until she realizes that she’s not supposed to make the same mistakes, and she’s supposed to learn from him, it’s not good. She’s ignored or forgotten (by the next day) all good advice from her friends and family...on this.. and she can’t take it all on her own..she needs to share the grief with people who care about her... to be able to deal...with it all...
Yet...
*************************************************
This weeks episode (1x10) did what I expected, and I know that the show is trying to claim everything Zoey is doing is affected by her grief...and that’s why she’s a mess, and that’s why... all... but I still can’t believe that (even if it’s the “anger” phase of her grief) she still hasn’t figured out that the lyrics of the songs that people sing tell her how she must help them. And she still, to this day, has not helped Simon with his grief. And according to the rules Mo wrote down...that’s “no good” - she must help the person singing...with the “problem” they have. She might’ve not wanted the power & it might not be fair to have to help people...especially at a time when she’s losing her dad... but they established that she must... in order to make all good.
She can “hear” (thanks to her power) how Simon feels, and yet she hasn’t actively helped him with his grief. And I know the writers are trying to say that it’s because of her own grief (and going through the stages herself), but it has just surprised me how she focuses all her energy on pursuing the engaged (until recently) man...romantically... (obsessively, so), instead of helping him (and instead of focusing on the #1 man in her life..her dad... and I still can’t believe she’s avoided that til now... cause she’s wasted so much precious time... til the very last minute... and she now has so little time left with him...cause she’s been focusing all her energy on trying to repeat her past relationship mistakes... -- and go for the complicated, exhausting for everyone... option,-- ). She’s spent so much energy on obsessing over the engaged (til 4 days ago) man, while claiming she has no time for any romance... (her words & actions don’t match!).
Her heart song to him in 1x08 also said “didn’t I see you crying?”, so she is (deep down) aware that that’s the emotional state she was him in, and yet they have not had a real, proper, discussion on how to deal with the grief! And hearing him sing the same song again in 1x10 should’ve told her that the man is still “stuck”...still... and that means she didn’t really help him...yet. Which means she must try to help him...again...til it works. (and in helping him she’ll help herself... and learn from his mistakes..and not repeat them..)
Also looking forward to the day when Zoey realizes that the thing that bothers her about Simon is what bothers Max about her: She doesn’t like that Max is pursuing her & yet she is pursuing Simon the same way....at a time when she claims she needs to focus on her dad. She doesn’t like that Simon has no clarity (doesn’t return her feelings... doesn’t want to start anything), but she doesn’t understand that she’s doing the same thing herself...to Max - she has no clarity herself. And if she’s allowed to not like how Simon doesn’t give her an answer & be upset that he doesn’t like her back...then it should be OK for Max to not like how she doesn’t give him/her BFF an answer & be upset that she doesn’t seem to like him back.
The moment when she realizes tha parallels..is what I'm looking forward to. For her (and some of the viewers) to realize how the things that bother her about Max’s behaviour are parallel how she herself has behaved. (fans claim “Max is pushing Zoey to love him back & going after her...strong”, but what has she done all season? “Zoey has been pushing Simon to love her back & going after him...strong”) The two storylines are exactly the same. And that’s done on purpose on the show.
She claims she has no time to focus on romance, cause she’s so caught up with her dad & grief, so it’s not the right time to pursue romance, yet she spends much of her screentime actively wishing for & pursuing a romace with Simon. She has the time to go to dinner with him (at a time when I expected her to practically move in with her parents...for the last few weeks), yet she doesn’t take time to actually get her BFF a “congrats on the promotion” gift...when in contrast she gets the “just-broke-up-his-engagement” man a housewarming gift... (she had 4 days to buy that pen/mouse... but she didn’t, but she got the plant for the same night. Same with telling Mo how she’s upset about the Simon news...while not even a mention of Max’s news - move to 6th floor. It’s like they really never were friends...cause she voices no concerns about losing a good programmer & friend...only “worrying” about her office crush...). #WhyAreTheyWritingHerLikeThat #SheCanGoThroghTheAngerPhaseWithoutBeingExtraRude
To me..that shows just how much she really “cares”. And she might be grieving & a mess..but right now...she does not “deserve” Max...as her BFF (even though she needs her BFF...at this time) Until she’s done processing her grief & done some therapy, and focused on herself... she should do as she says, and focus on her dad, her family, herself. Make her words match her actions. (and yes, this latest ep provided that “turn” ..for her...and all the characters... as the sun will shine again...after the storm... but not before another “storm cloud” passes)
Or...in other news: I LOVED!!! how everyone told their truths to Zoey in this episode. She might be grieving & going through the stages of grief (but so are a lot of people around her....and they don’t create conflicts over this), but that doesn’t make it OK how she sometimes behaves. (Just like Simon grieving does not excuse any of his behaviour...where he was emotionally cheating on his fiancee, and kissing other women while still enaged... etc) So... the scenes where everyone told her the harsh truth...were some of my faves in this episode: Mo, her mom, (even Joan...through looks), Simon, and especially Max!) IMO she really needed to hear all of it! (and more)
And this makes me sad that I am saying this, but... I wish Max/Zoey wasn’t the endgame...after all this. But it’s a fact that they are. But Max is a much better person than I am. And unlike me (I see the world in black & white only...and while I know it’s very human & all.. I am not a fan of “messy human feelings” - it’s all just too irrational for my taste), he sees all the colours. And mostly...he loves her..unconditionally, so he’ll “forgive her”. But for me her indecisivness, “1 step forward, 2 steps back” w. Simon (”we’re done, this is over, no more” claims... which she takes back/forgets the very next moment/episode... because... -- she won’t be doing this no more.. but then she finds out his engagement ended...so she’s back obsessing over pursuing him...even though she just made a promise to herself to not do just that --) behaviour, and all that.. cannot be “excused” or “explained” with grief. It hasn’t worked...on screen...for me. But it has allowed some TOP acting from Jane, and Skylar, and John, and Alex...and everyone else. This cast just keeps being amazing!
But no matter how much I’ll “fangirl” over the S1 finale M/Z moments and possible future M/Z endgame... for me it’s not the payoff... anymore (due to how S1 was written) ..it’s gonna be the unfortunate end result. Some people love TV drama, I just aren’t a fan of such messy drama... I’m simply too rational to get irrational behaviour (what writers & people call “very human” & “this is what grief & hurt does to a person”). I get the intent & get the reasons behind it, but it’s too irrational for me to like it. (cheating is cheating, you can’t take back what you’ve said/done...especially if you make the same mistake again...) #hurtpeoplehurtpeople
I’ve expressed some of these every thoughts in my previous tags and online comments... and now I just have confirmation from the ep that they did really take the exact route I did not ever want the show to take (once is a mistake, twice/three times is a pattern...). But nonetheless... M&Z is endgame. So...my only hope & wish is that there will be a S2, so we would see REALLY work on earning back her BFF (Max’s) trust and friendship. She has to work for it IMO. And she must be compleely honest with him...as she promised...and this now includes telling himall about her grief, “the triangle”, her moments with the engaged/just broken up man... That is the one thing that is a must.
(And no, Max isn’t that much hurt because she didn’t ask him to stay or petty cause she doesn’t return the feelings, he’s upset cause no-one even came to say “good luck”, and his best friend didn’t even bother to get him the “good luck gift” - to him it’s like confirmation that they don’t care or appreciate him as a co-worker. It’s like his peer reviews... He’s said why he’s upset. And he’s not upset cause she doesn’t return his feelings, cause through her heart song he knows for a fact that she has romantic feelings for him + he noticed how she checked his body out (Mo’s makeover)...and that “she’s his”. He’s upset that even though she has feelings for him, she avoids them & him. And that she’s pursuing the engaged man, making him her second choice & no one wants to be the “other/second (wo)man””. She claims she can’t do more than friendship right now...cause of everything related to her dad & yet... she is pursuing more than friendship with the other guy... so once again she wasn’t honest with him... and that’s gotta hurt cause they’ve been BFFs forever...)
This latest episode, once again, used parallels...lots of them.
Z: “You should know...what you did yesterday was really rough.”
M: “I was just..taking care of me. It wasnt personal.”
Z: “When I told you aboout my powers, I also told you I was gonna be 100% honest with you, do you remember that? OK, so here’s the truth: I think it is personal. I think youre mad at me. Youre mad at me for not saying what you wanted to hear. And now youre trying to teach me some kind of a lesson.”
M: “Oh, is that what you’re think?”
Z: “That’s what I think. Why else would you take the 6th floor side? You’ve been there wor whoppin 2 days.”
M: “I dont know. Maybe because people actually like me on the 6th Floor. Do you know that Ava has said to me mor ein those 2 days than Joan has in the last 5 years? Oh and it’s also a huge opportunity for me and my career. have you ever thought about that?”
Z: “So you’re just gonna leave behind everybody that helped you get there? Is that the idea?”
M: “See it how you wanna see it.”
Z: “Nobody down here understands why Ava wanted you in the first place. Just FYI.” #ThisWasLowAndTotallyCruelThingsToSay
M: “Maybe it’s becase I’m a good person.”
Z: “...or a very selfish one.”
M: “YOU are calling ME selfish? Look... I have spent far too much time worrying about other peoples happiness more than my own. Especially yours. And I think that its finally time I focus on my own happiness for a change.”
Once again the use dialogue about one relationship to parallel another relationship. If we change the words a bit & apply it in reverse, we get:
M: “You should know...what you did yesterday was really rough.” [their 1x07/1x08 conforntation - her revealing she has feelings for him...but then taking back the words & running to another man... while claiming your focus has to be only on your dad]
Z: “I was just..taking care of me. It wasn’t personal.”
M: “When you told me about your powers, you also told me you were gonna be 100% honest with me do you remember that (Think back... have you really been that?)? OK, so here’s the truth: I think it is personal. I think you’re mad at Simon. You’re mad at Simon for not saying what you wanted to hear. And now youre trying to teach me/him some kind of a lesson.”
Z: “Oh, is that what you’re think?”
M: “That’s what I think. Why else would you avoid your best friend & obsess over an engaged man...while claiming you can’t deal with romance at this time when you should focus all your energy on your dad? You’ve known the new guy for a whopping 2+ months...compared to your best friend of 5 years.”
Z: “I dont know...:”
M: “So you’re just gonna leave behind everybody that helped you get here (ditch your best friend, end your traditional movie nights together, dive into yet another overly complicated-exhausting for everyone-not good relationship with an engaged & grieving man...? You’re avoiding the most important man in our life = your dad, & dealing with your grief, you’re pushing away your best friend, whose always been there for you. And you’re opening up to a stranger instead of your best friend...and saying that’s a positive behaviour. Is that the idea?”
Z: “See it how you wanna see it.”
And Max’s decision in 1x09 & 1x10 was explained by Zoey's speech in 1x09..once again the two storylines are parallels as I already mentioned after last ep:
Z: “I will never be “the other woman”. Nonetheless..I care about you. A lot. We have a chemistry & a bond that’s undeniable. And I guess I was hoping that after the kiss you’d have some clarity... about all of it. Clarity ... you still don’t have. And maybe never will. So... I have to make a change.... instead of just sitting around, and waiting...and hoping for something to happen...So..this is me...saying to you...officially... I can’t, and I won’t do this anymore.
If we change the words a bit & apply that to M/Z, we get why Max made his decision & what he’s really saying to her:
M: “I will never be “the second choice (when youre my first...but clearly I am only 2nd choice for you)”. Nonetheless..I care about you. A lot. We have a chemistry & a bond that’s undeniable. And I guess I was hoping that after the heart song you’d have some clarity... about all of it. Clarity ... you still don’t have. And maybe never will. So... I have to make a change [move to 6th floor, putting distance between us].... instead of just sitting around, and waiting...and hoping for something to happen...that might never happen. So..this is me...saying to you...officially... I can’t, and I won’t do this anymore.”
She is a complete mess & she still doesn’t realize the parallels. How what bothers her about Max’s behaviour (towards her) is exactly what bothers Max about her behaviour. If she feels she “has the right” to be upset with Simon over these things (no clarity, not telling her he likes her back), then she has to realize that her BFF also “has the right” to be upset with her...over the same things. And she keep projecting...her own fears and denial..into others. And I get what the writers wanted to say, but for me personally... it’s made me dislike the character, and the writing, and all, because I don’t really “understand” why she/writers would “excuse” it all with her grief making her “act crazy”. She keeps avoiding her best friend & her dad’s situation.
We know that it’s because with Max she’s got a lot to lose (the connection is deeper, there’s more to lose), while with Simon it feels “easy” and theres nothing to lose, cause they don’t have that deep connection. Just grief bond....which she keeps mixing with something other. And she doesn’t listen to reason from her friends: Mo, Max... and they can’t help her get through this all if she won’t let them in...
And in the next eps...when THE DAY she’s been most scared of..arrives (her dad), shes gonna need her best friend, Max. And he’ll need her, cause he was close to Mitch, too. So they’re both gonna acively grieve. But before that they needed/need to “have hard conversations” and be completely honest with each other. The 1x10 “fight” was the turning point, now they just need time to figure things out...separately (as individuals, not as a duo) and realize...things.
#ZEP#SPOILER#ZEPspoilers#ZOEY'S EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST#ZOEYS EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST#ITS NEVER A GOOD SIGN WHEN THE WRITING MAKES ME DISLIKE THE MAIN CHARACTER ON A TV SHOW#BUT THIS SHOWRUNNER HAS DONE THAT...IN JUST 10 EPISODES.
59 notes
·
View notes
Note
How come it seems like lm and jds can talk more candidly about their intentions regarding other ships like allurance and even k/l but not sheith? I don't understand why they can clarify things like allurance and how it was there from the beginning or flat out state that they never intended for k/l to be a thing, but when it comes to the topic of shiro and keith they won't just clarify what they did or did not intend/want their relationship to be? I'm confused by it. :(
Ooof this is an excellent question and I suspect a complicated one.
First off, they can be candid about Allurance because 1) it’s a hetero couple (and therefore “acceptable” to executives and conservative parents) and 2) it was strongly implied and built up for almost the entirety of the series before they officially, canonically, became a couple. There’s no ambiguity there. They can be candid about kl because Allurance technically “kills” the ship by virtue of existing, but more importantly kl is the fanship that they have been directly asked about on more than one occasion and probably straight up badgered about it more times than we’re aware of. When your production studio gets blackmailed in the hopes of making k/l canon, that ship is being brought to your attention.
Also, Afterbuzz is run by kl fans who have anti-like tendencies. They angle kl questions in nearly every interview, and I was pretty miffed by the way in this interview they heavily, heavily implied that only Sheith fans hated s8 “because their ship didn’t become canon” and yet in the same breath talked about how Allurance wasn’t good and came out of nowhere (something JDS delightfully shut down). In the live chat for the recent interview, people from all ship alignments kept begging the hosts to ask about why SK’s friendship wasn’t included in the final season. In the saltiest tone you can imagine, one of the more vocal kl hosts decided to answer the question (”they helped each other grow and evolve and since they’ve done that, we don’t need to see their friendship anymore, it got lots of screentime in other seasons”) and never let the showrunners actually speak on it, instead moving swiftly to another topic that aligned more with the hosts’ own interests. It was almost like she was afraid of what the answer would be. Was she afraid they’d say “well actually, on the matter of that, Sheith was our intended endgame” or was she trying to save them from having to talk about something NDAs prevented them from talking about?
So why CAN’T they talk Sheith? I have a few theories. This gets long and a little rambly, so I’ve thrown it under a cut.
1) Don’t ask, don’t tell. Except for post-s7, the showrunners themselves have never been asked about Sheith’s relationship in an interview. I think most Sheiths were afraid of rocking the boat and potentially upending a SK endgame by drawing too much attention to it. We were/are definitely the quieter side of the primary vld ships and honestly most of us were not expecting our ship to be canon.
But vld ships and the ship wars are notorious across geekdom for vitriol and death threats, and the creators didn’t want to add any fodder to either side. In the middle of production it would have benefited no one for the EPs to say, “yeah sheith is meant to be viewed romantically” or “no, we can’t go back and change the story to make that true”. Either one would have resulted in an uptick of harassment from antis towards them, towards other fans. And nevermind the production side where DW/WEP weren’t ready for even a hint of m/m until right before s7 dropped. It was only AFTER they got the greenlight on gay Shiro that showrunners could finally be vague and say “some people will interpret [sk] as brothers, others will say it’s 100% confirmed they’re in a relationship”. Which is, in my opinion, a pretty interesting way to respond to that question. But again, if that interviewer hadn’t been brave enough to ask it, I highly doubt it’s something that the showrunners themselves would have ever brought up.
2) Sheith was actually intended to be romantic, but was blocked. We know now that Adam being greenlit as Shiro’s boyfriend happened right before (like a week or less) before s7 dropped. This was a show that had been in production for almost 4 years by this point, and the showrunners stated they picked Shiro to be their rep early on in the process. When they planted that idea in executive’s heads is anyone’s guess, as is when the proper fight for it began. I suspect their immediate team of directors, writers, and in-house producers were well aware and supportive, but kicking that up the chain was another story. I also have a suspicion that it wasn’t until season 6 was complete that the matter was brought up because greenlighting everything we got in s6 knowing Shiro was gay the whole time puts a lot of eyes on Keith.
And really, it was Keith who was the problem all along.
In every version of Voltron, Keith is the main protagonist. He’s the leader of the team, the primary “image” of Voltron, and thus, certain things about him need to be maintained. I’m not sure if this is sheer coincidence or not, but he is the only person on the team who stayed visually the same to his OG counterpart. All of the other paladins have gone from white dudes (and a white lady) to POC, or have had a genderswap. There is much debate about Keith’s race with people creating their own headcanons but ultimately Keith can pass as white. While the handbook states Lance is Cuban, Hunk is half black-half Samoan, Shiro is Japanese and even Pidge gets “Italian”, Keith is just listed as... human. Which is a surefire way to not upset fans who have HC’d him as POC while also not-NOT saying he’s white. Everybody “wins”.
In addition I’m confident a major stipulation of the OG Voltron owners (the “gatekeepers”, as a few of the VAs and the showrunners themselves have darkly alluded to) was that Keith could not be LGBT. We know now he was meant to end up with Acxa, a fact that was already obvious to many of us from their Weblum meetcute. But that relationship was never scripted.
Setting aside the fact that the OG Voltron owners (WEP) didn’t want Keith to be LGBT, I’m sure executives at Dreamworks would have struggled with the idea as well. Shiro stans can come at me all they like about this but Keith was always meant to be the primary protagonist of the show, of every version of Voltron, and making the main, masculine hero of a well-trodden, oft-rebooted franchise gay/bi would have been an ENORMOUS move for animation. Making him end up with the other main, masculine hero would have honestly broken the internet and the minds of countless conservative executives, and been a major benchmark not just for cartoons, but ALL media. Animation often trails behind TV and movies in terms of social progress because something something “protect the chillllldrennn”. And right now I’m struggling to think of a popular live action TV show, or movie, with an older audience, where the main masculine hero is lgbt, and in a relationship with the other main masculine hero. Feel free to offer me examples in replies but the fact that I’m struggling to think of anything is pretty telling. In short, if this revolutionary move still isn’t happening for the live action 13+ audience, asking for it to happen on a cartoon with a 7-11yo boy demographic is like asking for the moon. Keith couldn’t be gay, because immediately it would have been obvious to anyone that he was already very much in love with the other LGBT character on the show. Hell, it’s already pretty obvious in canon that this is the case, and dodging the question about his sexuality is dodging the confirmation that he’s in love with Shiro.
I’d like to believe that one of the solutions to the Adam Problem that was proposed was that KEITH ends up with Shiro, but they were laughed out of the office. The pair’s incredibly close bond aside, it would have been the absolute easiest fix production-wise. They already have their shared history doing most of the legwork, all that’d have to be changed is:
-adding Shiro to the L/K scene in 8x01, just sitting there as Keith encouraged Lance.-Re-recording a couple of Shiro’s lines in 8x05 to make him seem at least somewhat upset that Keith was kidnapped-Showing Keith and Shiro hanging out in the video episode. You could just use the shot of Keith and Pidge but replace Pidge with Shiro.
And the best part is, you could change just one or two of these and then do the wedding epilogue you always intended (but write something that doesn’t insist Shiro retired) but with Keith instead of Rando. Not to mention, there is a slight, slight possibility there was a S/K scene (or two) cut along the way. I strongly disagree with the theories that have floated around about the “massive edits” done to s8, but I think there could be truth to the idea that a Sheith scene was cut to make room for Crew Member, or an effort made to downplay the Sheith friendship that comes off way more intimate than any interaction Shiro has with [man]. It’s more likely that SK scenes never existed at all in this season as the showrunners had to cave to pressures to “have more action”, had no idea what to do with Shiro besides relegate him to a stiff cardboard general, and perhaps had to follow strict instructions about the kind of friendliness an out & proud gay man could show to the men he’d enjoyed good interactions with before.
All this to say, the Sheith battle is messy. It’s fine for the showrunners to say “getting the greenlight for Shiro was a battle” because it’s a battle they won that makes everyone look pretty good. It makes Dreamworks look like they Learned Something and are going to be more open to LGBT content in future properties. It makes WEP look not-terrible because they can add “allowed a character who wasn’t really an OG Voltron character to be gay” to their list of “generous” things they allowed for this re-envisioning of their property. It’s self-congrats all around.
Blocking Sheith has the opposite effect. It reveals that WEP is homophobic because they could allow Pidge to be a girl and Allura to be black but making the hero a non-straight man? That’s TOO FAR. It reveals that Dreamworks higherups are homophobic because they weren’t ready for two LGBT protagonists, just one plus a background character with 3 lines who is literally never named. No one wins, and to be asked about Shiro and Keith and be honest about it could potentially be the showrunners saying, “god, we wanted to, but we were blocked at every single turn”. And thus DW and WEP are the outed villains of the story.
3) Shiro and Keith were never meant to be read as romantic. The showrunners don’t say anything because there’s simply nothing to say. Sometimes the most incredible ships are happy accidents. Sometimes people genuinely don’t realize what they’re doing. I felt a little disheartened watching the AB interview because the way they talked about wanting to include more [man], or how they “hoped viewers would read between the lines” re:Shiro/Curtains, was so casual and flippant it was like they genuinely thought most people would be fine with Shirando if only there had been more scenes between them, as though completely severing Shiro’s relationship with Keith and instead only showing scenes of Shiro bonding with a new character would come off as a good move rather than a baffling (and somewhat hurtful) one.
I do believe that certain directors were absolutely fans of the pair and angled in what they could. Chris Palmer is behind the famous “shiro loves you baby” art and responsible for the eps that include Shiro’s gay panic, the Sheith hug, “As many times as it takes”, Shiro falling into Keith’s arms, and “We have to stop, Shiro’s out there!!” among others. Steve Ahn was the director behind 2x01, 3x01 with heavily grieving Keith, Blade of Marmora, and the episode where Keith screams Shiro’s name so loud he astral projects and then Shiro holds his hands over the controls. He also got really soft when he talked about the pair in an episode of Form Podcast (before JDS kinda hastily shut him down). And even Eugene Lee, he directed The Black Paladins which is an episode so Sheith I still can’t believe it’s real, and 7x01, the other episode so Sheith I can’t believe it’s real. All three of these guys were the original series directors, which is pretty inchresting.
But that doesn’t mean the showrunners were necessarily onboard. Maybe it was really important to them to show a positive male friendship since that never happens in media, just as they felt having Allura sacrifice herself was a powerful feminist move. However the thing I keep circling back to is JDS’ early interview about The Winter Soldier and how if he ever got the chance to do that, he hoped it would be in the future when things could be more progressive, hinting that he wanted to throw more overt romantic undertones if he himself ever got a fight like that to write or direct. It’s pretty interesting that he wrote the Black Paladins, which mirrors the Stucky fight in Winter Soldier so much that it actually rotoscopes one of Bucky’s moves. I’d also point out that JDS’ favorite characters are Shiro and Keith, and I find it impossible to be a fan of both and not also be a fan of how much they love each other, and how much that love straddles the line between romantic love and friendship.
This got long, but I hope it was helpful. The likely final-ever showrunner interview will be on Let’s Voltron sometime this month, and I do hope that now that the series is over someone is brave enough to ask them, “so... what was going on between Shiro and Keith? In a perfect world, what would have happened there?”. In a way it doesn’t matter though. There is always the risk of them saying “nothing was going on there” and us agonizing over whether that was a lie to protect their careers or bald-faced honesty in the face of an NDA or fucks-given that might have expired with their contracts.
But I think the best we can hope for is the same situation that happened with the Avatar creators and that live action movie: 3 years from now when the NDAs are well and truly expired, JDS & LM may come out and say, “SO, on the matter of Shiro and Keith, it’s time to come clean.”
#sheith#vld meta#voltron#askspifty#it's still wild to me that people say they're brothers#like really i have questions about your siblings if that's the case#Anonymous
188 notes
·
View notes
Note
(for the char thing) stanley uris, mike hanlon, and patty blum
migz!!!! i’m sorry i abandoned this in favour of video games and capitalism i hope i can make it up to u uwu
this is mostly going off the movies but there’s occasional book and miniseries input- i’ve only read the first few chapters, a few wikia pages, and some character meta from the book and i’ve only seen the miniseries once vs the however many times ive watched the movies in the last 2 months so don’t expect consistency between canons
(also i’m gonna put these under a cut because this post got really long)
stanley uris
How I feel about this character:
there is a reason i use the tag baby boy for stan (and also for miniseries eddie)!!!! he’s my favourite loser other than eddie and i want to like. hold him and make sure he’s happy and healthy and i think stephen king should treat his characters better.
All the people I ship romantically with this character:
patty!!!!! their relationship in the book makes me so happy and anyone who’s ever spoken to me about stanpat knows that i am at all times thinking about how she calls his car sedanley.
that being said, i respect stenbrough, stanlon, and streddie but overall this is a stanpat household
My non-romantic OTP for this character:
stan with all the losers but especially richie! which isn’t very original since they are literally best friends but their dynamic!!! good!!!! i’ve not been able to stop thinking about that one scene from the miniseries where richie introduces stan as “this is stan the man uris, he’s a jew,” partially because it’s fucking funny because who says that richie what the fuck, but also because stan just instantly follows up by saying that richie has a high metabolism which makes him hyperactive, and maybe it’s because the miniseries is campy and a little bit shit but the delivery of those lines makes it seem like they do this a lot! they have these introductions ready to go! and i love the idea of them as a platonic package deal even if we don’t get to see much of that in the movies
My unpopular opinion about this character:
i don’t think i really have any? i tend to follow people who hold the same opinions as me tho so i have no idea what’s popular outside of that dshfk
i mean i do think fics that save eddie but not stan aren’t really fix-its and going off the amount of fics where stan’s still dead i guess that’s somehow an unpopular opinion? i know everyone’s focused on reddie rn but god like. stan is right there can we stop ignoring him pls
One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon:
i mean the most blatantly obvious answer here is that i wish he didn’t die! he should’ve gotten to go on his holiday and rail/get railed by his wife and live to meet his friends as adults, catch up on the 27 years they didn’t get to be with each other. he should’ve gotten to have kids, once everything was over, and they should’ve been able to grow up with 5 extra uncles and an aunt bc u can’t tell me the rest of the losers wouldn’t be deeply embedded in their lives. i just wish stan had a chance to be completely, 100% happy without the underlying terror of his childhood.
on a smaller note i also wish we’d gotten to see more of his interest in birds in the movies bc like. he’s babie. and who knows! maybe would’ve helped stop the perception that his entire personality is just being a bitch that hates richie jshfd
mike hanlon
How I feel about this character:
part of the reason i wanted to read the book was for more mike content because i adore this lil farm boy and the movies. well. y’know. :). characters who just openly and whole-heartedly love their friends and go straight ride or die like 10 minutes after meeting them have my whole heart! he’s so smart and so kind and just wanted to protect his friends as best he could even though he dragged them into this whole mess bc he doesn’t want to lose them again!!!! mike deserves the whole world and if his way of getting that is by getting out of derry and getting to know that his friends remember and love him and each other then that’s all i want for him.
All the people I ship romantically with this character:
i wasn’t overly set on any particular mike ship until i watched the miniseries and saw the homoerotic bike montage and now i’m fully on the hanbrough train. choo choo.
just like with stan i support stanlon but endgame hanbrough is just. it’s right there in the text. bill didn’t divorce audra for nothing in ch2.
My non-romantic OTP for this character:
this also kinda ties in with the last point, but jane @billdenbrough opened my eyes, in the middle of a very in-depth conversation about audra’s minion strap, to the world of best friends mike and audra who are both with bill which is both galaxy brained and an incredibly good concept which i think about a lot
also i think mike and ben could’ve had something Incredibly soft if mike wasn’t treated like a background character in the first film and a quest-giving npc in the second one :) :)
My unpopular opinion about this character:
i headcanon mike as gay, i have no textual evidence for this, i just think he’s neat. i think it’s a pretty popular opinion that the movies treated him poorly? and i also think that in ch2 he was just trying to protect his friends in a scenario that did not lend itself at all to protection. drugging bill and not telling the others about the full ritual might not have been the best thing to do, but he was in a goddamn bitch of an unsatisfactory situation, and he was trying his best to save his friends no matter how impossible it may have been.
One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon:
i uh :) i don’t know if anyone’s figured out yet :) that i wish many things had happened with mike in canon :) :) the first film doesn’t give him much but the second film just infuriates me completely tbqh! he’s basically entirely there to push the narrative (his dialogue doesn’t even sound like dialogue! it sounds like prose explaining the plot and the next steps the characters have to take!), or to drug and lie to his friends. i wish they’d kept his backstory the same, that we’d actually gotten to see him find his token, that he’d gotten a token relevant to him as an individual rather than the group, that we’d gotten a flashback for him, that he was given more screentime and development across both films, like... i wish he’d been treated like the other losers and not a plot point.
i also wish we’d gotten to see him on his travels post-canon, seeing the other losers, and just generally actually getting to be happy- we see the start of it but god i just want to see him having a good time outside of derry.
patty blum
How I feel about this character:
if she were not stan’s wife she would be my wife. we don’t get to see much of her in the movie or miniseries and that is a fucking crime!!!! i’ve already mentioned sedanley but like. sedanley. i’ve read patty’s bit in the book and that’s all i need the other 1100 pages can get fucked, she’s just here to watch family feud and love stan which i can confidently say is a huge fucking mood
All the people I ship romantically with this character:
STAN. i guess i already talked about this before but i’ll keep going!!! my love for stanpat overwhelms my usual distaste towards straight relationships bc they’re so good!!!!! the fact that they’re really the only happy relationship to come out of the 27 year gap and they love each other so much and so like... wholesomely? but they still blow each other’s backs out on the reg and it’s what they deserve.
also i sometimes think about patty/audra as like. kind of a crack ship kind of a “i’m a lesbian and i’m desperate to see lesbians” ship. i haven’t thought about it in depth i just want to plant the seed
My non-romantic OTP for this character:
stan introducing patty to the losers and patty becoming an honorary loser is my weakness!!!! patty being comfortable enough to rib richie (and richieandeddie) with stan, but also vice versa going along with richie’s bits. patty and bev getting close because as much as st*phen k*ng and co push bev as One Of The Boys(tm) there’s just something in having another woman around that can be refreshing especially when they’re both bicons. patty and mike enthusiastically sharing holiday pictures and tales of their trips. patty noticing when eddie’s having a bad day, whether it’s anxiety or lingering trauma, and supporting him through it, regaling him with stories about stan and what essentially amount to dad jokes (sedanley!!!) and making sure he knows he’s loved and supported by all the losers. patty, the teacher, and ben, lunchtimes-in-the-library ben who never outgrew his love of reading, nerding out over shit that the others don’t really know about. bill telling patty all about what stan was like as a kid in that way only bill can, richie chiming in with crude comments sometimes but noticeably keeping quieter than usual, and patty returning the favour, telling them about the last 27 years, and not even richie makes a single joke when everyone tears up (because he’s tearing up the most). stan sitting there the whole time not even bothering to point out that he’s right there because it’s enough for him to see the romantic love of his life and the platonic loves of his life bonding, and yeah, maybe it was worth sticking around for.
My unpopular opinion about this character:
i don’t know if this is unpopular but patty pegs. that’s all.
One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon:
more patty. let me see my wife.
#eddiekissbrak#migz this has literally taken me hours i hope ur happy#i can't remember if the book specifies what patty teaches so i'm taking some liberties because i don't care what stephen king has to say#kinda went off the shits with patty there rip#i'm also like. not good with thoughts or with words so im sorry if this is underwhelming dgfhjsk
6 notes
·
View notes
Text
so i normally don’t share my in depth thoughts on movies (idk why, i just prefer to be like, “i saw it, i liked it!”) but since the avengers have been a pretty big part of my life the past seven years i thought i would write out my feelings and views of endgame, this being the end of the era and all. especially since this movie hugely affected the three characters i cared about the most: tony, steve, and my beloved natasha.
it should go without saying but spoilers under the cut, i’ll be going pretty extensively into the ending.
the good
everything about rhodey. don cheadle has amazing comedic timing
carol’s new hair
“who here hasn’t been to space?”
hey a gay/bi man! that’s pretty cool
natasha appears to be the quasi leader, i love that
sob she and steve are so soft. soul mates
ant man is?? so funny??
everyone finally reunited and appear to have made up. it’s great to see them all on screen together.
it’s always nice to see pepper
the scenes where they’re trying to figure out time travel and then trying to remember where all the stones are. (tony and natasha laying next to each other, legs almost touching, is my most blessed moment of 2019.)
nat saying “see you in a minute” then laughing at her own joke. remember when everyone assumed she was a joyless robot?
look i hATE time travel but all those call backs and visits to previous movies, i can’t hate that.
always good to see peggy
the part where the guardian’s opening scene music is playing, and then it cuts to rhodey judging peter.
mjolnir!!
steve is worthy !!
that climax is amazing, absolutely amazing. i was cheering, people around me were cheering, my younger sister was wailing.
girl team up !!
i think i liked carol here more than in her movie?? i came out of captain marvel liking her fine, but there was something about bri larson’s acting (or maybe it was the directing) that was kind of lacking. maybe it was cause i was already familiar with her, but i felt a little more character for her here. which is really odd cause she did this before captain marvel apparently.
queen valkyrie
sam is cap my LAD SAM SAM SAM
bucky was barely in it
hulkwidow appears to be entirely platonic, the evil has been defeated.
plenty of other things that i’m just not remembering right now
the bad
did five years really need to pass???? it didn’t really do much for the story. you could’ve gotten away with just one. now far from home is gonna be weird. (pretty sure they only did this time skip to give tony a child who wasn’t a baby and could actually speak but like... i wouldn’t have been upset if she was a baby?)
a lot of jokes went on too long. this movie was 3 hours long because ant man and thor sometimes talked too much. pretty much anytime thor was on screen i was saying “ok go away, get him out of here.” i wasn’t really upset at what they’d done with his character, they just needed to really reel in some of his rambling. you know something's gone wrong when thor isn’t being extremely charming. editing guys, just a touch more editing. snappy dialogue is always better than overly long.
so bruce’s struggle with hulk, a major plot line from the beginning, something that came to a head in just your last movie, is solved.... off screen. ok.
are bruce and valkyire not friends? :c i loved them, they were so cute in thor 3
carol and okoye were not in it enough. i actually forgot about carol until she showed up for the fight.
as i said, i am not a fan of time travel. it ultimately just makes everything confusing and convoluted. i get that like... ok, so it’s not really time travel, it’s more universe hopping, but the idea of 2014 thanos, gamora, and nebula coming through to the future.... it’s dumb. it’s just.... i was not on board. it just opened up too many questions and also was just too bombastic. the big grand finale should've been something else.
also.... what happened to 2014 gamora? did she disappear? is she just... out there??? what a cop out, that’s not our gamora. that gamora never said “i don’t know what cheers is!”
i’m not mad at tony’s death. i get it. i think it was extremely well done. he made the big sacrifice play, and we all knew tony or steve would be the ones most likely to die. i get it. but i’m putting it under bad because i didn’t want anyone to die. sPEAKING-
the how dare you
natasha deserved better. this is the character who has kept me invested in these movies and now she’s just gone. the first true superheroine of this franchise, who’s been in more movies than anyone else, and they just throw her off a cliff... for clint? who’s barely been here?? look i get it, they’re best friends (i’ve never been a clintasha, actively dislike it actually, but i do enjoy their scenes when they get them.) but what a slap in the face. she deserved to be in that girl team up. i couldn’t even fully enjoy it.
and worst to me personally, they killed her off just because he has a family. i’m sorry?? that makes his life more valuable then her’s??? i get that losing him would be extremely rough on his family, but i do NOT like the message that that makes her more expendable than him. what about natasha’s found family, the lives she touched? the good she could’ve continued to do? that doesn’t matter? and i really can’t stress how much more screentime she’s had them him; from an out of universe character standpoint, she is absolutely more valuable than him.
i do not think it was out of character for her to give her life (and god at least it was her choice, unlike poor gamora,) i see the idea of the beauty in this character “redeeming” herself by giving her life to get one of the stones in the only way possible. they couldn’t have saved the world without her. but why was death her only way to wipe out her red? why couldn’t she have lived to continue on being a hero? maybe be the new fury, connect her to agents of shield.
i’m particularly mad at how little steve seemed to mourn. they shared more movies together than anyone else, making them her best relationship; they’re inseparable in iw. all that on screen, multiple movie long build up, and all we get is some tears. and these are the same people who wrote the majority of that relationship, there’s no excuse.
she doesn’t even get a funeral!! just one last mention from clint. what about fury and maria? did they care? at least give her more respect than that. tony died with his team, wife, and a whole battleground beside him, kind words easing him off. nat died painfully and suddenly, cold and nearly alone. she deserved a better goodbye than that. let the whole world know that two avengers give themselves for the them.
my one solace is that at least she’s with tony in whatever the marvel heaven is and they aren’t alone. brotp to the very end.
(it should’ve been clint. sorry, but i’m mad and that’s how i feel. it would’ve been sad but.... he was always my least favorite anyway. or maybe they could’ve found a way so neither of them had to, i dunno. i’m sure the writers could’ve thought of something. also i don’t buy that hulk’s snap couldn’t’ve have brought her back. would that really have upset anyone? no. it should’ve happened.)
but after thinking about it for a few days now, i think what makes me even more upset, more insulting than natsha’s death, is steve’s ending. i have way more attachment to my beloved widow, but at least, at least i can say that as much as i hated it, her last scene was beautiful in it’s own way, true to her character, brave, extremely well acted, and meaningful. she chose to die thinking about her best friend, his family who was also her own, her team, and the world. while i don’t think it was the culmination of her character arc, it was at least an end that i can believe to some degree. steve? they ruined steve.
steve’s arc from day one was about moving on, looking forward, and making the most in what he had. that he had to let go of the past and accept his new life. this is clearly set up in this very movie when he tells a group of people to move on, but then to natasha claims the two of them don’t. they decided that the climax of this arc was to make it so....he never actually moves on? he just gave up and never tried? look i’m not a film writer, but i’m pretty sure when you set up a conflict like that, you have them subvert it. like first act “we don’t move on” last act “we learned to finally move on.” that’s what character growth is. by making steve run all the way to the 40′s, you undo all the progress he’s been making since 2012.
and not only that but this requires me to believe that the over 10 years he was out of the ice never changed him. he never ever grew to accept his new life? sorry, i don’t buy that. he had sam, nat, the other avengers, even bucky came back to him. he says it himself in aou, a different person came out of the ice than the one who went in, one that didn’t really need the family and dream house and all that. where did that guy go? (plus is this dude really gonna go back to the past knowing all the shit that’s going to go down, both supervillain wise but also real history? does he just ignore everything?? what happens in that universe.)
look i like peggy. she’s amazing. she deserved more seasons for her show. but i just do not believe she was the love of his life. ya’ll are giving marvel wayyy to much credit with that. they knew each other for like two-ish years and had one kiss. never even went on a date. out of universe, we have not seen them romantically since 2011. it’s just not realistic to me that he would still be holding a candle for her, ten years later. a few years? sure, but over ten? nah man. he claims he wants someone with “shared life experience” and i guess we’re supposed to believe that’s peggy. but that’s not true anymore because he’s now had WAY more shared experiences with natasha, sam, and of course bucky, his lifelong friend. you really want me to believe he’s still madly in love with a woman he barely knew (in the long run) and not natasha?? who was by his side for like six years straight, some of the worse years of their lives?? yeah i don’t believe that, no matter how much i like peg. but way to send the message “if you get a first crush, that’s it! that’s all you get! you’ll never move on.”
(”but guys and girls can just be friends!” i hear you say. “romantic capwidow would undermine that.” to which i point to nat’s friendships with: clint, rhodey, tony, thor, bruce post aou, and literally everyone else. her dating one guy she’s known for over ten years would not invalidate all the rest of her platonic m/f friendships. this idea that dating someone you’ve known for a relatively short time is ok, but if you’ve known them for years than it should stay platonic is extremely weird. especially since some of the people i’ve seen say that about capwidow ship winterwidow. who have traded one single line. ya’ll know what’s what made hulkwidow bad right???)
he met with peggy when she was older. she moved on, had a life. he buried her. civil war gave him peggy closure. by just making so they get together anyway, you rob these scenes of their power.
tony and nat both wanted families and normalcy (ugh, i loathe to acknowledge that awful scene in aou, but it is heavily implied in an unfortunately canon movie that nat would be interested in a domestic life were it possible for her. but she also counted all her teammates as her family, and that’s what she wanted most.) they both died after only getting a small taste of that, dying to save the world at the cost of never seeing their families again. steve running off to have an idealistic ol fashioned 50′s life with his wife, and i assume children, kind of spits in the face of their sacrifice imo.
also way to get your dumb bucky (you know, the dude you almost got arrested for and split your superhero family apart for?) back for like a day and then IMMEDIATELY growing old without him. cool move. not like you could’ve navigated the unknown future together.
“but arctic,” i hear you say, “steve deserved to have a normal life!” he sure did. they all did! but that didn’t need to be by going back to be with peggy, ruining his character. you know what actually would’ve made more sense? if they had found a way to bring natasha back (look all steve had to do with give the soul stone back and either 1) “a soul for a soul” counts both ways or 2) bring doctor strange with him, wait until past clint leaves with his soul stone, and then use to time stone to reserve just natasha and bring her back. we know it can revive people because it happened in strange’s movie. easy fucking peasy.) he brings nat back, hugs all around, he gives sam the shield, and then he walks off into the sunset with nat, both of them retiring, but not far away just like thor, clint, and bruce. (it doesn’t have to be romance, but nat IS his closest companion by this point, that is undeniable.) he finally puts his past to rest, and so does nat. maybe the final scene is still him dancing with peggy, but he left that universe right after, giving them both that closure. they got their dance, they can look to the future. that is a much better send off for the end of the phase.
at least i’m glad my ot3 left the franchise together.
overall, i really did like about 80% of this movie. i got so mad at the end there because i care so much about these characters. because i was having a lot of fun and then was left unsatisfied (i would not have believed this was the same team behind winter solider and civil war if i didn’t look it up myself. i know they can do better.) i could forgive the time travel, the weird as FUCK 2014/2023 crossover, if they hadn’t done nat and steve so dirty like that. was this a good movie? yes. but i probably won’t see it again until it’s out on netflix and i can stop watching it right before nat dies.
i’m always going to be a marvel person, i’ll keep watching them. i’ll see far from home. but a light has definitely dimmed. at least there’s always black panther.
#arctic says#endgame#endgame spoilers#romanogers#ugh still not a fan of that shipname but it seems to be the one used the most so fine#ok to reblog
12 notes
·
View notes
Note
Hi ya! I was wondering if you still think Caryl is endgame ? Seems like more and more of us are getting hopeless. Absolutely love your blog btw
Hi nonny !
(some spoilers in the answer)
Sorry for the late answer but I wanted to take my time to answer this one because it’s kind of tricky you know… thinking that Caryl is or isn’t endgame is not going to influence the writers’ plan and I also don’t want to give anyone too much hope or on the contrary completely crush anyone’s optimistic point of view. And Caryl is such a touchy subject… I don’t want to get anon hate and all that crap lol.
It has become harder to predict what the writers will do. They killed Carl for instance, no one saw that coming, he was supposed to be the last man standing, whether one loved Carl or not we all agreed that he was the one who was safe. So really who knows what their plan is now…
(I’ll start with some negative stuff and thangs but I’ll finish with positivity - I promise)
This season we’ve been told that Caryl won’t get romantic by Skybound (not sure if we should pay them any attention though tbh). They barely shared any screentime and today Norman said in a WSC panel in Germany that if he could give Daryl any storyline, he would give him a romance. So does that mean there is no romance for Daryl this season and therefore no Caryl becoming canon in s8 ? I’m afraid so, even though I try not to read too much in what the actors say because it’s tricky for them, they usually get the same questions when it comes to romance and they’re not allowed to give too much away (plus they don’t write the show). They are aware that ‘shipping’ is a BIG deal in the fandom so it must be complicated for them to answer, because they know how much we care. I think Melissa and Norman are very much aware of this fact. We also don’t know if they will have another scene this season (I really hope the rumour regarding another line-up where they are both involved is true). And this season, the writers are really mostly focused on the AOW and the consequences of Carl’s death. (whether they are handling this well or not is another debate)
BUT I don’t think AMC/the writers are THAT stupid you know. They base a LOT of the show’s promotion on Caryl, they know that the audience wants Caryl (see all the polls). And let’s keep in mind all the things we were given so far : the evolution of their bond since s1, MMB and NR acknowledging that Carol and Daryl are each other’s most important person, they care about each other more than anything, she’s the one he’s the closest too and vice versa… Last season’s reunion with the very intimate hugs (remember how she nuzzled him ? “Ain’t no brotherly hug”), Daryl’s speech to Richard, Daryl praising Carol… The easter eggs… the “I couldn’t lose you,” Daryl’s lie just to protect her even if it meant that she woud stay away (and that’s not what he wants - Nicotero or Gimple said that I cant’ remember which one)
It’s hard to keep hope alive, I’m aware that many of us only keep on watching the show because of Carol and Daryl and the possibility of canon. I personally watch the show for Carol (though I love Daryl to death) and I’ll keep on watching until the day she leaves. I’ve always known that the show - for me - will end with Carol, no matter if we get like 5 seasons after her departure. I’m here for her. But I do think Caryl should be together, this is what makes sense. I want nothing more really. But to find out if canon will ever happen we just have to wait. Maybe in s9, with the time jump and the flashbacks. But really there is no way to know if and when it’ll happen. We just have to be patient (as always) and maybe we’ll get what we want or maybe not and in that case we’ll still have the amazing fan fics and all the beautiful moments they have shared throughout the seasons. Never forget that they’re everything to each other and THAT is canon.
Caryl on love! And thanks for the question :)
25 notes
·
View notes
Note
with one ep left - do you have any hope for a bamon endgame?
My gut says no, but honestly I’m still sort of refusing to speculate one way or another because they will do whatever they want to do. And making BD romantic at the last second may absolve JP of all the “Why was the black character’s source material ship the only one that wasn’t explored” questions without her having to actually expend any serious amount of screentime towards them, in an explicitly romantic sense. So who knows.
But for me, I finally hit a realization after 8x15 that @darwinquark has been trying to hammer into my head for weeks (months?)... Endgame was a lie all along. The cake is a lie, y’all.
I’m going to feel really old if none of you get that reference.
But basically, they’ve been holding this “reward” over our heads for the past 8 years, and now even if they were to for whatever reason deign to give it to us, it’s a lie. We won’t be able to hold it, or smell it, or taste it, or lick the frosting. Because the show is over. We won’t see Bonnie and Damon go from new lovers to an old married couple. We won’t see their sex scenes, or their kiss scenes, or what their banter would be like after they’ve sealed the deal.
That’s what I wanted from this ship. To see the slow and painstaking transformation in Bonnie as she realizes what it really means to be loved by someone who would destroy the world for her... someone who fights for her to value herself. To see that selfishness really start to stick. Instead we get Bonnie back almost to square one, leaping into harm’s way at the drop of a hat, steadfastly refusing to even consider saving herself if it means endangering others.
I wanted this ship so that we could see the change in Damon when he finally, consciously understands what it’s like to be loved by someone who understands him and his darknesses with the gracious hope that he’ll change for his own sake, not for hers. Someone who consistently calls his flaws what they are, and empowers him to do better just by being who she is, with no ulterior motive. Someone who he’s never had to share with Stefan, that root of some of his deepest insecurity.
And they refused to show us any of that. They gave Bonnie a halfhearted self-worth arc in s6 which they promptly dropped as they intentionally yanked her out of Damon’s orbit... they pocketed all of Damon’s progression, every step forward marred by 12 steps back; and moreover, they planned to continue doing so as long as the network kept renewing them and giving them more money, right up until this final moment of redemption that they’ve had planned since season 1.
That’s not the story I was hoping all this time to see. That’s something stagnant, and broken, and hopeless. And no matter what they do in this week’s episode, that was our viewing experience. Being able to say “Bamon’s endgame!!!” doesn’t mean anything to me if so much of what preceded it was miserable. If I wanted them to give me some parting gift and let me build the rest of the ship in my head... well, I don’t need them for that? We’ve been doing that all along.
I’m sure you didn’t intend for this kind of a response to your simple question, and I’m so sorry for unloading on you, lol. I hope that whatever happens, whether that’s endgame or not, it’ll be something that makes you happy in the long run. Because we really deserve some happiness after all we put up with for this show.
Tbh, I think we should just be happy anyway, like we used to do before canon was even a glimmer of a hope. Just take whatever happens and twist it into something amazing either way. like lol, why not? :)
49 notes
·
View notes
Last Seen Blogs
nearlyryden
the sun's gone down in my eyes
bakshiarman
bakshiarman
indigopunk69
題名未設定
hunterwolf867
fuckismyhobby
nycityfeet
KawaiiKookaburraKorner