#and el likes me as much as i like them and wants and sees and communicates that they want something long term and ahhhhhhhh | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

akunokomadori · 11 hours

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Elbert/Kate/Alfons

tags: nsfw; threesomes, m/m/f; dubious use of Alfons's power word count: 2.3k

Elbert rarely went on long missions, unless it was with Alfons—and now Kate—at his side. This time had been an exception, needing his status, but both Al and Kate were otherwise occupied. So he’d gone without them.

Now, he walked down the castle halls to his bedroom, his steps at an unusually hurried pace. The whole time, he’d wanted to see them, wanted to go back home to them, wanted to be with them, wanted, wanted, wanted. He was used to his greed going unfulfilled, but not when it came to them. And going from being able to have them both to not having either… it had been driving him crazy. So much so he might’ve rushed the mission, simply so he could get back to them sooner.

Finally, he placed his hand on the doorknob to his room, only to freeze. Because he heard them both inside.

Except…

“Ahhh… El. Elbie, p-please…”

“Please what? I want to hear you say it.”

“Please, El… More, nghhh, I’m so close—”

Kate was moaning his name.

Was this what it’d sounded like to Alfons, months ago, when he’d walked in and finally joined them? But even so, why was she moaning his name now and not Al’s…?

He pushed open the door, slipping inside without a word, and took in the stunning sight awaiting him. Alfons and Kate were both in his bed, beautifully nude, their clothes scattered haphazardly along the floor. Kate’s back was flush against Alfons’s chest, his lips on the crook of her neck and his arms looped loosely around her waist. One of his hands was on her thigh, spreading her legs open as she rode his hard cock, while the other worked at her clit, his gloveless fingers slick with her nectar.

“El, ahhh… ah, you’re so good, you feel so good…”

Kate’s eyes were closed, but she kept moaning his name as she bounced herself on Alfons’s cock, her thighs quivering and her skin tinted a lovely pink. Elbert took one step forward, then paused when Alfons’s ash-grey gaze captured his own. “Did you…”

“She missed you, Elbie,” Alfons purred. He spread the fingers that’d been playing with Kate’s clit, parting her glistening folds to give Elbert even more of a show. “And you were gone for so long. Do forgive me for indulging her a little."

So the reason she was moaning his name was because… right now, in her mind, it was him inside her and not Alfons. It was his cock filling her up, his mouth marking her skin, his fingers bringing her close to climax.

Kate’s dark lashes lifted, fluttering open. Her eyes were glazed over, unfocused and filled with Alfons’s illusion. She blinked, furrowing her brows as she looked at him—the real him—and then back at Alfons.

With a chuckle, Alfons swept his fingers over the nape of her neck and the confusion visibly cleared. A second later, recognition flashed across her face, only for it to be immediately replaced by a gasping pleasure when Alfons snapped his hips, driving his cock deeper inside her.

“El—ahhh, f-fuck, nghhh, A-Alfons…”

“See?” Alfons said with a smirk, dropping his hand to Kate’s breasts. He took hold of one, massaged it and pinched her perky pink nipple, eliciting another lewd moan from her lips. "It's you she wanted, my dear Elbie. Are you going to make her wait?"

Elbert crossed the room faster than ever before, kicking off his boots and throwing aside his sword, before sliding into bed and hooking his arms under her legs. His mouth went straight to her wet cunt, greedily devouring the sweet nectar flowing from her.

She gasped and grabbed his hair, fingers threading through almost painfully, but he hardly noticed. He ate her out with abandon, licking between the folds spread by Alfons’s cock, and sucked on her swollen clit. Her whole body convulsed, legs clenching around his face as she mewled and tried to push herself against his tongue, her juices gushing out of her as she came.

“El, oh god, hhgnnn…”

Her nails scratched gently at his scalp as she quivered, her soft moans alternating between both of their names. And it just made him want more.

Aflons tried to thrust up but Elbert grabbed onto his thighs, digging his nails into Alfons’s flesh. He pinned Alfons’s legs to the mattress, holding him down with Kate still impaled on his hard cock. “No. You don’t move.”

“Oh? In that kind of mood, are you? I’m thrilled.”

The tone of Alfons’s voice was teasing, testing, like it always was. But Alfons always knew exactly what he wanted and strived to give it to him. So when Elbert dropped back between Kate’s beautifully soaked thighs, his “attendant” obeyed and kept his hips still.

“Elbie, w-wait, please, I just—ahhhh!”

His gaze swept up her body, watching the heaving movement of her chest and the enraptured expression painted across her gorgeous face. Her long hair fell messily behind her shoulders; Alfons’s normally neat raven locks similarly mussed. He’d watched them indulge in one another enough times to know exactly what it would’ve looked like without him there. The sweet gasps, the wanton touches, the breathless kisses, and the beautiful blushes that colored both their cheeks when they were ready to fall apart.

He wanted that again and wanted it now, but with him in the mix. His mouth sought out the spot where they joined, where Alfons’s cock sheathed inside her, tasting them both together. Alfons twitched, his muscles straining against the temptation to move. Instead, Kate moved for them both, arching up and then bringing herself back down. She ground on him, rolling her hips to push herself onto Alfons’s shaft and Elbert’s tongue.

More.

I want.

Without pulling back, he pushed two of his fingers into her alongside Alfons, and smiled when her toes curled into the sheets. He fucked his fingers into her as his tongue lavished her clit, the rest of his hand curled around the base of Alfons’s cock, stimulating them both. She came twice more on his tongue, almost shouting—and the second time, Alfons’s cum seeped out of her as she finally pulled away.

“H-hold on, please… I need a minute.” Kate gasped as she rolled off Alfons and away from Elbert’s incessant assault, collapsing onto the bed sheets beside them. The rise and fall of her chest was rapid, muscles in her thighs still twitching as spasms continued to run through her, and her full lips remained parted to breathe out the most beautiful little exhales.

“If I may—”

Elbert didn’t give Alfons a chance to finish his sentence. He seized Alfons’s hair, grabbing a fistful at the back of his head, and slotted their bodies together.

Alfons’s smile flickered for only a second, before spreading wider. He hooked one of his long legs around Elbert’s waist, hitching him even closer. "Oh my, what a welcome surprise."

"You took advantage of her."

"Please, Elbie, you know us better than that. She wanted it. Asked for it.” Alfons’s devilish smirk was far too attractive to be anything but sinful. “Begged for it."

Elbert looked over at Kate, who nodded her head in confirmation. “I missed you…” she whispered.

He’d missed them, too. But without them there, he didn’t have the privilege of abusing Alfons’s power to make himself believe they were with him.

If Kate went away for a while, though, could Alfons do the same for him? Offer himself up as her substitution to satisfy his master’s unending need? If he asked… well, he was certain Alfons would simply laugh a little and then grant him exactly that.

“I couldn’t stop thinking about you. Both of you…” Elbert muttered in confession, his heart flipping in his chest when they both smiled at him in response. “Al, I want…”

“We’re here, Elbie.” Alfons looped his arms around Elbert’s neck and danced his fingertips along his nape. “Whatever you want.”

Maybe, sometime in the future, they could try it… But right now, he wanted to savor the real thing. Still gripping Alfons’s hair, he crashed their mouths together, greedily drinking in the groan that rewarded him. With his other hand, he took fingers still dripping with the mix of Alfons’s cum and Kate’s nectar and slid it between Alfons’s legs, down past his cock.

Beside them, Kate’s breath hitched and came followed by the sound of her fumbling with the bedside drawer. A moment later, she pushed a vial of oil into Elbert’s hand. Oh, she was absolutely perfect…

Fingers made slick with oil and with traces of them, Elbert pushed them in past the tight ring of muscle and fucked Alfons open on his hand.

It was always stunning, watching Alfons come apart. He was usually so composed, so perfectly tailored to play the part of a well-bred gentleman. So when he let that all go, when the facade fell away to expose his true self, it was beautiful.

The flush built along his fair skin, his cock filling out yet again as Elbert continued to drive his fingers in and out of him, stretching him.

“Are you going to tease me for long, Elbie?” Alfons’s voice was breathy, betraying his put-on words. He dropped his hands, hooking his fingers into Elbert’s belt. He gave it a playful tug, then made quick work of discarding it so he could draw Elbert’s straining length out into the open. “Or are you going to fuck me properly, like you want to?”

He did want to. His eyes strayed for a moment, looking at Kate lying beside them. Her breathing had calmed and when he reached out to her, she shifted closer. “I’m here.” She leaned against Alfons’s side, her hair splayed over their pillows. “He wants you, El. Let him have you.”

Driven by her gaze, Elbert spilled more of the oil onto himself and slowly guided himself into Alfons. Kate watched them, her eyes focused on where they joined. As Elbert started on a slow pace, thrusting gently, her fingers slid down her body and slipped between her own legs.

“Come on, Elbie. I won’t break. Give me more than that,” Alfons encouraged, only to visibly bite back a gasp when Elbert fucked all the way into him. “Y-yes, like that…”

Kate laughed softly beside him, touching a kiss to Alfons’s shoulder before reaching over and tipping his face toward hers. The sight of them kissing was always beautiful. More so now, after a week away from them and with Kate leading. Her delicate fingers caressed Alfons’s cheek as she moved her pretty lips against his, welcoming his tongue into her mouth. Elbert could watch them kiss forever, watch how Alfons drew her lower lip into his mouth and sucked on it, biting it gently. Except… he wanted it too.

He snapped his hips, driving himself into Alfons so hard that he separated them. And before they could come together again, he swooped down, stealing deep kisses from them both. Kate tempted Elbert’s tongue into her mouth, meeting it with her own. Then a moment later, he was moaning into Alfons’s mouth as he chased his tongue, greedy for it.

They never stopped him, never scolded him, or tried to limit him, not in bed like this. They welcomed him between them, taking turns kissing him breathless. When he finally pulled away, he saw that their hands had drifted to one another. Kate’s fingers were around Alfons’s cock, stroking him, and his were back at her slit, fucking into her at the same pace set by Elbert’s thrusts.

Gorgeous, stunning… beautiful.

He still doubted himself at times, but never when it came to them.

Kate arched her spine, biting back a moan as Alfons rubbed her clit. Her own hand faltered, but then she circled her thumb over the tip of Al’s cock and smeared the precum beading there. And Elbert felt how Alfons clenched around him in response, tight and hot and maddening.

Alfons tried to fuck into Kate’s hand, bucking up, but Elbert grabbed hold of his hips with bruising strength and held him steady. Instead, he sought out Al’s mouth again as he drove his cock deep inside him, fueled by the muted moans spilling from Alfons and the pure ecstasy of his heat constricting around him.

It didn’t take long for them all to reach the edge. Kate’s breathy pleas mixed in with Alfons’s swear as they found theirs together. Elbert gripped Alfons’s hips as he fucked the orgasm out of him, practically purring as Al came in spurts. He pulled out of Alfons’s spasming body, palming his own cock until his cum joined Al’s in painting his stomach.

And then, the bedroom was still and quiet for a moment, as they all caught their breath together.

All the wonders in the world and there was nothing—nothing—that he wanted more than this: the three of them, together.

Kate spoke first, drawing Elbert into her and pecking his lips with a smile. “Welcome home.”

Beside them, Alfons chuckled and then leaned over, starting the careful work of undressing Elbert. “Yes, Elbie. Welcome home.”

When the first sliver of his skin was unveiled, Kate’s fingers found it immediately, her touch as sweet and as gentle as ever. And right beside hers came Al’s, firmer, more demanding, guiding them back onto the tangled bed sheets.

Welcome home, indeed.

Trapped between the two of them, he had never felt more satisfied.

Dividers by @natimiles

Thanks for @judejazza for the event, been devouring fanfic and wanted to spread the sandwich agenda 💕

#ikevil #ikemen villains #ikevil fanfic #ikevil fanfiction #ikevil smut #ikevil alfons #ikevil elbert #ikevil kate #alfons sylvatica #elbert greetia #invitation2crowncc

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alisaint · 1 day

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there's a difference between crying a lot and being a "crybaby." The accusation "crybaby" is something Will antis throw at Will a lot, but the difference between you and me is that you seem to say, "Hell yeah, he is!" whereas we say, "No, that's not true. Crying doesn't make you a crybaby."

crybaby typically has a negative connotation within culture. And I definitely disagree with the idea that will is powerless (not any more powerless than anyone else, pretty much everyone other than El is powerless... Mike is often powerless too) or "delicate" (he certainly doesn't want to be treated in that way, as he's made clear).

Is he liable to break? Maybe. Sometimes. But so are most of the other characters? I don't think he's more liable to break than others, and even if he is, party of his bravery is pushing through that hell.

perseverance IS a form of bravery. You can even argue that Will's internal struggles are a sign of his bravery precisely because he doesn't want to burden others with his pain. Mike is brave too, and I fully agree that he has more traditional knight in shining armor traits, and so the question of, "Who is braver?" then comes down to what kind of bravery you value more. Mike is also going through a lot too.

I wholeheartedly agree that Will is sensitive, but I think we disagree on what that means. I don't see Will's sensitivity as a limitation, so I don't think it should be combined with other terms that actually are seen as negative in one poison pill package.

And I don't think will's sensitive traits are a weakness at all. In fact, I actually think Will being unapologetically himself is one of the things that make him brave, and it's why I voted for him. He made an Alan Turing poster! But I think distilling him down to those traits and placing him in a stereotypical gendered box is misguided, and IMO it twists Will's positive traits into a weakness by exaggerating them/Flanderizing them. And when that happens, the people who DO see them as weaknesses pounce. And for good reason.

Because it's not Will! And Will is gonna be the hero in S5!

I do believe in nuance. My position is very nuanced. But when it comes to these polls it really does seem like people take sides, and there are two very different ways of seeing these characters. And the usual suspects tend to chime in for your "side" of the debate.

So in conclusion?

Will sensitive? Yes.

Will crybaby? Well, he certainly cries, but I wouldn't use that term.

Will powerless? Sometimes, but it's not a core trait.

Will "delicate?" Not a fan of that term. Nor is Will lol.

Will cowardly? Not a fan of that term either.

Will damsel in distress? Sometimes. Situationally. But again, it's not something he's defined by, nor is it something he wants to be.

Mike brave? Absolutely. He's the paladin!

Will brave? Hell yes!

Who is braver? Well, that's up for debate.

one thing you'll notice if you live in and interact with others in the world is that people will often take a pejorative word that is being thrown at them and reclaim it in order to render it powerless. will does cry a lot. because he's a sensitive gay boy, misogynistic people will opt for the low hanging fruit that is calling him a crybaby. by saying "yes, and? what's so wrong about a boy crying? especially when his life is shit and he has a million reasons to cry?" you're doing much more for him and everyone else that's faced similar bullying than you are doing whatever this is. turn that statement back on them. make them explain to everyone in the class why that's such a bad thing.

if will isn't powerless against those that attack him, then why doesn't he fight back? if he does hold power, why doesn't he wield it? is it because he's a coward then? or...? like, lol. he is powerless. the odds are stacked against him in every single way, both in a supernatural and sociopolitical way. it's also just not who he is. if he wasn't meant to be powerless, i don't think the duffers would've written him in such a way repeatedly in multiple seasons. he can't fight back against his bullies and he can't fight back against monsters. if his loved ones hadn't worked together against unimaginable horrors to save him, he would've died.

will does not have the ability (couldn't fire the gun; doesn't fight back), resources (hasn't used any superpowers to fight), influence (he was overtaken by the shadow monster; he is lower on the totem pole among his peers and sociopolitically), power (couldn't fire the gun; no powers like el), authority (lower on the totem pole; his father has more power over him; has a gentler, more passive personality), or capacity (again, gentler, more passive personality; couldn't fire gun; not a fighter) to fight back and win against the antagonists.

he's a character in a show. he was written and shown to be powerless against all that hunted him. he literally died in season one and was close to being lost again in season two. like... huh? and i never said he was more powerless than anyone else. stop jumping to conclusions and arguing with a made up version of me that exists only in your head.

will doesn't want to be treated like a baby that can't handle himself. he wants understanding, empathy, and support. not to be smothered or wrapped in bubble wrap. the only characters that manage to do this are mike and then jonathan after will shares this with him. still, will is sensitive. characters don't treat him the way they do other characters (and this is called having tact). lucas even tells max not to talk to him about anything that happened when he disappeared, because "he is really sensitive about it". will gets ptsd flashbacks. he freezes up and experiences a bodily reaction. he gets panic (?) attacks. he is susceptible to triggers, he requires careful handling, etc. he's tough! and he doesn't want to be babied! but he's treated sensitively because he is sensitive and this is unique to him. they don't roughhouse or bro out with him the way they do with other male characters. like. even the party has to go through mike to get to will when it comes to the more sensitive stuff lol.

when you say "but not more than the other characters" you're still agreeing with me. you're wasting time saying. again, you're making assumptions. fucking quit it. lord knows i'm saying enough as is! you don't gotta make up more shit!

the question of who is more brave comes down to what you define as bravery, not your values.

you'll find that a lot of definitions of bravery and brave mention courage. a lot of these definitions suit mike more than they suit will.

we both agree that perseverance is a form of bravery, that's what i meant by strength to survive all that he's survived lol, so idk why you wanna capitalize and act like i don't. i just think mike fits more of the definitions, the most popular and standard definition. this poll asks who's bravER not who's brave point blank.

…….. why would you ever think i view his sensitivity as a limitation? especially after i just said it's his strength and spoke extremely clearly? like. what the fuck are you talking about? and people absolutely do see his sensitivity as a negative. both in canon and in real life. why do you think they use crybaby as an insult? why do you think he gets bullied both by his peers and his dad? for the love of god, think about the shit you say and these points you're making instead of just trying to fight with me for no fucking reason.

he's not being placed in any stereotypical gendered box. i'm sorry for you and the people you'll meet if you really think that just listing his traits and things that have happened in the show is placing him in some box. it doesn't make him a girl to be sensitive or a former damsel in distress. it also doesn't make him a stereotype. which btw. you do realize people like that exist right? like. you don't even realize how homophobic you're being. people like that exist. stereotypes do not arise out of thin air. people will see those things and consider it a weakness and pounce BECAUSE THEY'RE HOMOPHOBIC AND MISOGYNISTIC. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD USE YOUR BRAIN AND READ THEORY AND HISTORY AND JUST FUCKING THINK.

will is sensitive, a crybaby, a former damsel, and so on and so forth and still he's going to be the hero. these are not contradictory statements. you say you understand nuance, and yet you spew all of this black and white lonnie bullshit. will is not a perfect mary sue cardboard cutout kind of character. he has strengths, weaknesses, positive traits, neutral traits, negative traits, he's been right, he's been wrong, etc etc. he's a fully-fledged character.

the only person trying to shove him into a box is YOU. the only person being homophobic is YOU. the only person assuming shit is YOU.

the question was who's braver. i looked up the definitions, thought back to canon, made my choice, and explained why. my argument that mike is more brave does not mean that will is not brave. it does not mean that he has never been brave and never will be brave. stop. being. willfully. obtuse.

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chirpsythismorning · 9 days

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Fun fact: In the original pitch for Stranger Things, El had a little brother.

After being rejected by almost 20 studios for the Montauk pilot, the Duffers were finally green-lit by Netflix. It was at this time that they began casting and then writing the first season officially, which included reworking a lot of that first episode.

This led to the removal of the brother reference, and with it, removing any sort of arc El could have had about her apparent brother.

But the thing about this moment, is that it might not have been scrapped entirely...

Going into the final season, no one can explain why or how El recognized Will back in 1x02. And while there are plenty of things on the show that are left unexplained, with a small portion likely left that way with the intention to uncover it later, what sets this moment apart from the rest is that there are very few possibilities here.

Because for starters, the story presents El's ability to see people in the void in s1 as requiring either a picture of that person for reference, or having met that person before.

But when El see's this picture of Will, she's never met him before. Or maybe she has, but we wouldn't know because they never showed us. They could have just not done this scene at all, given that it's clearly a copy/paste/edit of something scrapped from the pitch. Or they could have even still included it, but explained it.

One explanation could be that the lab had shown El a picture of Will before, similar to what they did with the Russian agent they wanted to spy on. But then that begs to question, why would the lab show El a picture of Will? Why would they want to see what he was doing? That alone is incriminating in and of itself, implying that Will is more connected to the lab than we realize.

The only other, and frankly most likely explanation, would be that El stumbled across Will at some point on her journey between escaping the lab and Will going missing. This is actually something that happens in The Other Side comic, which explores all the things Will may have experienced during his time in the Upside Down.

Though it’s worth noting the comics aren’t technically canon, and I highly doubt they would outright spoil everything in relation to Will’s time there, years before it was intended to be revealed. But still, let's humor this for a moment given that I do think Will's time in the UD is going to be very relevant in s5, which means it's highly likely they will finally address how exactly El saw him.

Basically, in the comic, Will see’s El walking through the woods, almost apparition like, glowing as she passes by, while also sporting the Benny’s burgers shirt. This means they would have crossed passed within a short span of time, between when El escaped Benny’s when the agents arrived, but before she was found by the boys.

Though it’s worth noting that we’re seeing this all from Will’s perspective. This means from the UD, Will was capable of seeing El on the other side, despite them being on different sides. And not only that, but she also looks back at him.

What confuses me about this, is that it doesn’t make sense for El to be in the woods, only to randomly decide to pop in to the void for a moment. She was trying to escape the lab and everything that came with it. I doubt she had any desire to lurk back there for some reason, not until someone encouraged her to. Not to mention, it would make no sense for her to go there and see Will if she wasn't even looking for him in the first place. And so this would mean Will and El could see each other, with Will being in the UD, and El being on the other side.

While it does seem pretty far off, given that you would think Will and El wouldn't be able to see each other from different sides, it is true in the story that El not only recognizes Will, but knows that he is in danger. She mentions that he is hiding specifically.

Which means she has likely seen him within the last 24 hours regardless.

This, in combination with Will being able to respond to El in the void at the end of the season in Castle Byers, when no one else outside of Terry and flayed-Billy have been able to, seems to imply that there is indeed something special about Will that makes him capable of communicating with El from the UD. Not only that, but El also seems to have an ability to be in this constant knowing state of how Will is doing, without even checking again to confirm. She's just certain of it. And she seems terrified about it.

Going forward, El never uses a picture of Will to find him. She never did. And more often than not, they don’t show us what she see’s either, not until the very end. And that’s the moment they reveal that he was able to communicate with her.

Again, there was really no reason to have El recognize Will. If anything it complicates things. But the fact that they chose to introduce this concept, with a scene from the original pitch that was related to El’s younger brother, with her pointing at his name cryptically, startling Benny, only to revamp it and have El not say anything at all while pointing at the picture of Will, startling Mike… It just really makes you stop and think.

Which brings me to the other aspect of this that might have people doubting, which is that El’s brother was originally younger than her.

We know Will is not younger than El, so how could this apply to him?

Well, it might be helpful to consider that in the original script, El was actually 10 years old, while the boys were always 12. Meaning that for some reason, they decided to age her up to the age of the boys, aka the same age as Will…

Ever since @erikiara80 shared this brother discovery with me, I have been sort of reeling. It then led to other little discoveries of changes they made between Montauk and Stranger Things.

It’s important to understand that the Montauk bible and the original script precedes what we ended up with in the final product, with it finally changing and evolving months, maybe even a year since that original vision. Even casting occurred before writing started for the first season. We know this because casting announcements were made in June and August of 2015, with writing not starting until August going into early 2016, simultaneously while they were filming.

And believe it or not, what I've discovered is that a lot of the changes they made between their original plans and what we see in the final product, have to do with not only Willel, but also Byler.

If you've read the original script for Montauk, you'll know that Mike's crush on Jennifer Hayes was focused on right from the jump, along with the birthmark on his face being focused on, which was the main cause of the bullying he experienced.

This has actually been talked about recently, and some of the claims people make do fit with what I am genuinely starting to consider here, which is that the initial plan for what makes Mike an outcast shifted.

I think when they completed casting, and started actually deep diving into what they wanted this world to look like, both from a short-term and long-term standpoint, they were presented with some pretty interesting discoveries, arguably already hiding in their initial plans without realizing it.

And this is where it sort of becomes a 'chicken or the egg' situation. Because which one came first? Byler or Willel?

I can't say for certain, because obviously this is all just speculation. But in the case that Willel came first, I think Byler would come very naturally after that.

The Duffers themselves are twins. Then they hire Noah, who is a twin. Then they're thinking and planning for El's past and how her family all fits into this, and they're thinking... wait a damn minute... We could totally Star Wars this bitch!

And then when they think it couldn't get any better, they uncover another layer that they hadn't planned or really considered in their initial plans.

While Will was always going to have sexual identity issues according to the Montauk bible, meaning that the writing process for him likely involved sitting down imagining scenarios that encapsulated this arc for Will from the beginning, they were simultaneously now finding very interesting aspects of Mike's character that made it hard not to at least consider the possiblity that Mike is not exactly straight.

Just think about it. The Byers and Wheelers are basically polar opposites on the spectrum of what a family looks like. While Will's discovery and acceptance of his queerness is interesting to explore because he comes from a low-income, single-mom household, all while having been bullied for years based on his perceived queerness, he also has a mother and brother constantly reinforcing that they will accept him no matter what. They've been sort of hitting us over the head with it for years, and so it wouldn't be very satisfying for his entire arc to merely lead up to something we've known all along. It's pretty much a given at this point.

On the other side of the spectrum, Mike comes from a more upper-middle class family at the end of a cul-de-sac, more aligned with what a nuclear family looks like. Mike's family is also presented as being more conservative, and while Karen does give that very queer-coded speech to Mike in s1 (I'm convinced they only wrote this after deciding to explore queer-coding more heavily with Mike), it also comes with comments from Ted and even still Karen that hint that they are probably not as open-minded and accepting as Will's family is to him. Which means Mike's arc would be a lot more about acceptance around him from his loved ones who we have been led to believe might not be as accepting of his queerness in contrast to Will.

And so as they're putting this story together, and they're being presented with something very interesting. Two similar experiences that play out in different ways because of the characters circumstances.

Will goes missing, and his twin sister with a buzzcut pops up and has the ability to help them find Will.

This leads to several moments where El is being compared to as not only a boy, but Will as well.

Now suddenly, their initial plans to have Mike's arc be about having a girl be interested in him and to hopefully have his first kiss and feel like less of a loser, starts to look a lot like what the experience a queer kid in his position might encounter growing up in the environment that he did.

And if you don't want to take my word for it, just hear the Duffer's themselves hinting at what they initially planned for Mike and the fact that it changed.

The changes don't stop there.

Believe it or not, 'It was a seven', did not exist in the initial pitch. When the boys went outside bickering over Nancy, they leave right after that.

Another thing that changed from the first script, was Scott Clarke's introduction:

And so you might be thinking, who cares? What does that have to do with anything?

Well, it's interesting because the line we end up with on the show is arguably one of the most on the nose Twelvegate proofs to date. Mind you, this is from the first episode:

Why chuck the original version, which was arguably more interesting and fascinating in terms of it hinting at the mysteriousness surrounding this story, only to replace it with him listing off tips about their upcoming test?

Well, I think it's the irony of it all. Here Mr. Clarke is practically telling us where to look to figure stuff out for ourselves what is going on, with all the kids filing out and ignoring him...

I relate to Scott a litttle too much in this shot here, any time I try to drop Willel evidence.

And the changes go on, as they obviously would.

Things like Terry Ives not even being El's mom, but actually a man who more so aligns with the characterization of Murray.

And one very interesting one I almost overlooked was in Hopper's introduction, where instead of a kids drawing done by who we assume to be Sarah, we actually see a picture on the wall of him and his wife and daughter... Interesting that they decided to switch it something that is a lot less definitive in presenting what Hopper's past looked like...

If you've made it this far, congratulations.

If you still think I'm out of my mind, just remember that El was going to have a brother in the original script, but they scrapped the scene and gave a near identical one to introduce her connection to Will instead 😘

#byler #stranger things #willel twins #twelvegate #montauk #as you can see #i am out of my mind #and i'm okay with that #i've spent the last couple months trying to make a video going over all the willel twin evidence #and i can't decide if it's even possible to do without going over an hour #like there is just so much shit that fits too perfectly into this family being ripped apart by mind control and time shenanigans #i hope to have it done soon #trying to make it less than 20 minutes #but it's probably going to end up being closer to an hour #especially with this stuff from the montauk pitch being added to the mix now #anyways #willel and byler are the curtain behind the curtain #if you are open to one of them #you are bound to stumble across the other #and they don't want that to happen #stay tuned for the inevitable twin imagery to continue in s5 related to willel leading up to the big reveal #bc it's arguably the most consistent thing about this damn show #and tbh this all just makes the queer-coding for mike in s1 a lot more concrete to me #them exploring will's queerness through his dad's expectations for him to do more 'manly' things like play baseball #and jonathan saying he shouldn't like things just bc people telll him he's supposed to #how they connect that narratively with the boys being at a baseball field when mike's being pressured about his supposed feelings for el #with the bullies showing up and literally being homophobic seconds later #the fact that jennifer hayes did in fact exist in the original pilot and was the girl mike had a crush on #only for them to scrap that and just make it about her having a crush on will...#never once introducing this idea of mike liking her...

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werebutch · 2 months

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WSBH chara q’s: (you don’t have to answer all the numbers, just whatever you want to 𖢘)

16/35/51 for Scotch

1/6/55 for Atlas

I LOVE YOU

16. What kinds of people do they have arguments with in their head?

okay i truly think scotch argues with seraph in his head all the time. ALL the time. scotch largely ignores them, and vice versa, because he dislikes them and they know it. seraph is very conflict avoidant lol, and as long as hes not a "threat" they dont care to talk to him about their problems. he probably argues with atlas and jacob (his older brother) too, atlas about more stupid small stuff, and jacob about childhood and life stuff :p

im trying to think of more general groups he would argue with but i cant come up with anything BAHAH. hes not exactly conflict avoidant in the annoying libra way that seraph is, he more just ignores conflict for his friends’ (mostly atlas’) sake. idk if that makes sense LOL

35. What is the smallest, morally questionable choice they’ve made?

hmmm.. smallest? i mean scotch strings eloise along for most of the time pre timeskip. its not a main focus but its definitely important in order to understand scotch as a whole. she and scotch go out for a while, and mid way through that he realizes hes GAY gay. lol. and obviously lying to her about that is pretty questionable after a while. especially since he and atlas have been 👉👌 like the whole time. but she kind of knows. well

something a little bigger would be him encouraging or otherwise turning a blind eye to all the weird stuff atlas is up to. he doesn't know what it's like to be a werewolf, he can't say anything, right? lol.... murder is okay if its a talking dog doing it. scotch enabler supreme. actually when seraph is introduced, he and atlas have a 'joke' (kind of starts being real) about luring seraph somewhere to kill them. obviously doesnt happen and gets abandoned. but i think its important to know about their dynamic LOL

51. What’s a phrase they say a lot?

this guy is kind of goofy. i cant think of phrases rn but he has a specific way of speaking.. you could watch pretty much any old pop punk band interview and kind of get the idea. HAHAH

1. What’s the lie your character says most often?

atlas is a big fan of saying 'its fine' for all situations ever. family in mortal danger? its fine. completely splitting? its fine. arthritis excruciating? its fine. hes one of those people that dont like to deal with the fawning of others unless hes feeling real special. Ends up putting people in more danger a lot of the time. i think eloise is the only fan of communication in this friend group to be honest. i should have made her the main character

he tends to make promises he cant keep as well, but thats more general..

6. What’s their favorite [insert anything] that they’ve never recommended to anyone before?

i have NO idea. i feel like atlas would be a music snob, so maybe his favorite 'super underground' bands. otherwise he'd probably never recommend raw human meat to another human (no matter how much scotch asks -__-).. (he would chicken out anyway)

55. What’s something they’re expected to enjoy based on their hobbies / profession that they actually dislike / hate?

um. so atlas hates working out. he especially hates running, you know, the thing that wolves are known for doing a lot of? unfortunately the lycanthropy came with a side effect of pretty bad arthritis, so that doesnt exactly encourage him. he DOES exercise, a lot since hes pretty much required for his ermm "side job", but he hates it 😸 besides the arthritis it’s mostly because I think it’s silly that he hates it. yay

#ummm a lot of what i talk about with my ocs are the character relationships but thats why i write. i like gossip. its fun. LMFAO #im actually having trouble deciding whether i want atlas to be a killer or not. like regularly killing i mean. hes definitely killed SOMEON #im really inspired by ginger snaps and scream. i dont even like scream that much but it reminds me of how they are. lol #scotch and atlas are pretty different but theres two things i see as themes. they both hate communication (and that causes conflict; so mor #avoiding). and the fact that scotch lives vicariously through atlas. atlas is doing #what scotch thinks is interesting. for pretty much the entire time; scotch likes to beg atlas to turn him. i think scotch sees the lack of #control he has over his life and sees lycanthropy as power. arguably thats why scotch is so attracted to atlas. lol #idk. thats not canon. im just thinking out loud here.#and yk it is power but not freedom. atlas would much rather just be a regular wolf. hunting and shit. but hes got these damn people here lo #but he sees what his life is like being a lycanthrope and hes kinda like. no. im not bringing that onto you. you dont know what youre askin #YOU KNOW? its goofy. i know. but its fun. LOL #if you (a general audience you but it can be you too grins) want to talk about scotch's confusion about his attraction to eloise we'd be #here all day. i think scotch is an egg. i dont know. i truly think theres some vicarious living (again) through her femininity.#and el is trans so he doesnt see her femininity as unattainable to him. you know? i hope that makes sense lol and im kind of projecting on #to him wif dat. to be honest. but obviously in the other direction. BWAHAH #asks #eucyon #thank u for da ask jesse this is so fun ^__^ and exciting that someone remembers their names HAH #after all this talking in the tags what I meant to say is that scotch and atlas both have sick intentions. it’s just that scotch doesn’t #act on them. and atlas does. so. living vicariously. ok

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muppetbyers · 1 year

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ive said it before i’ll say it again but just because el is brought up in mike and wills conversations doesnt mean theyre actually talking about el

#like its also simply the fact that they are having the conversations at all. that they are vulnerable with their feelings to each other #in low stakes situations simply because they are best friends and trust each other and Want to confide in the other.#the same cannot be said for mlvn and thats just the objective reality #so like. i dont see why this is seen as a valid ‘gotcha!’ for bylers. it is not.#also yeah will is in every mlvn scene and thats Still gay. like the subtext is skewed gay in every way idk 🤷#take that up with the duffers man… ‘every byler scene mentions el’ yeah and Whyyyyy do they do that Think w ur brainnn #this is like. queer subtext 101 #also the el mention in one scene literally being ‘i was worring too much about her that i feel like i lost you’… do i eveb have to day it #*even *say… damn #also so funny to say this when the van scene exists. The most textually obvious example of them using ‘el’ to talk about themselves #like u expect me to take this argument seriously when there is literally a scene where will used el name but is not talking about el at all #yeah okay lmao #uhm anyways #its late im tired sorry for being cringe about byler again.#goodnight and godbless #byler #mine

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uselessnbee · 1 year

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saw my favorite bylers talk about the relationship between Mike and Joyce again and now i just can't stop thinking about it

not just if she saw the airport fiasco but what if she saw the conflict between willelmike

or after they're all finally in hawkins again maybe she saw there's something going on and asked Jonathan and he told her some things he knew he could let her know

and then she comes to Mike and he expects it. he expects her to be angry to start criticising him cause he fucked up and hurts everyone and he knew this was coming but god does it hurt. this is the woman that feels like a second mother to him the woman that sometimes feels more like a mother to him then his actual mom and he knows being criticised by her is going to be the last straw and a part of him is dreading this but a part of him also thinks he deserves this. of course he does he fucked up he's the bad guy he hurt people he hurt her children she loves more than anything of course he deserves this

so he can take it. it will hurt. it will be like a punch in the face but he can take it it's what happens after that's the real question

but Joyce just smiles at him so gently and asks if he's doing okay. if everything is alright if something is going on. she tells him she cares about him and she knows he's been through a lot but if he needs her she's here for him. if he needs to talk she will listen if he just needs someone to be there for him she will be and she's just so caring and gentle and loving to Mike and Mike just. fucking. breaks.

he doesn't even remember when was the last time someone treated him this way like his feelings matter like he matters and he just can't help it. someone finally sees more than his snarkiness. someone finally sees more than him being a jerk. someone finally sees there's something more going on. someone finally sees the pain behind it and cares enough to actually ask him of he's okay and so he just lets himself cry in front of someone for the first time in years

#byler #mike wheeler #joyce byers #mike and joyce #my favorite mother and future son in law relationship to think about #i love to think about Mike seeing Joyce as his second mother and Joyce seeing Mike as if he's her own son #like god this is the kid she saw grow up since he was like 5 this is the boy that made her son so much happier #and i bet she never invalidated his feelings or anything because Joyce would never #and Mike just feeling safe around her and Joyce being one of the few people who never see him as the bad guy because that's Mike #and she only sees him as the kind boy who is always so caring and gentle with her Will #and of course she wants to make sure he's okay and that he knows she's there for him #and how much that must mean to Mike his parents never show interest they always invalidate his feelings and never ask if he's doing okay #they never make him feel safe like he can talk to them but Joyce god she's the exact opposite #she always just shows him care and never makes him feel wrong for just being himself and i'm sobbing now #where is my own Joyce to adopt me please #Also about Jonathan telling Joyce some things no he totally wouldn't out Will or anything #he would say what he knew he could but he doesn't know much about the situation himself #and Joyce totally already knows about Will so it would probably look like #Joyce: i see there's some tension between Mike El and Will is everything alright?#Jonathan: we had to listen to Mike's shitty unhonest love confession to El and it was so bad it got Max killed :/#Joyce:😰#anyways sorry for rambling i just have many thoughts about this #blue's 'Mike's extreme defender' ramblings

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s-ccaam-era-crepe · 3 hours

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im sooooooo self-conscious about my leg scars.

#camera talks #also my arms but slightly less so bc i cant get around that one as much anymore #thats the one thing that. if people mention it i literally want to die #i work so hard to feel normal about them again and 1 comment will literally break all that and i will probably end up crying #picking scars are so hard to deal with... and some of them are literally years old #theres nothingggg i can do #keep to yourself stop asking me questionsssss #i hate summer/later spring bc that means short sleeve and shorts and people Seeing my scars #the one reason i have been suffering with my hoodie and pants at school rn. el oh el. it sucks but i cant Not so #one nice-ish thing tho. art of the characters who have gone through prentiss in tma. literally look like my scars sometimes #and it kinda makes me feel nice. idk. weird circular scars rep #anywayyys

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1ovestay · 11 months

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won’t lie, experiencing some horrors

#just cried uncontrollably for like 20 mins #cried like 3 times yesterday too #i have no energy for like anything rn.. went to buy new glasses today tried on 15 pairs hated them all and then went back to my car #and cried because i really need new glasses since i fucked up my current pair and they don’t sit right now and dig into my face #tw death . my grandma passed away while i was flying home from canada #and it sucks because everyone got to be with her and say goodbye but i didn’t #and there’s a viewing tomorrow and my dad thinks i should go since it will be my last chance to see her but i don’t want to #i get that it’s a healing way to say goodbye for some people but i don’t want to see my oma lifeless #i know i’ll never get to see her again and that fucking sucks but she’s gone and i don’t want to see her like that #plus i have work and i already called in sick 2 days i don’t want to leave them short again even if it’s understandable #anyway the funeral is on tuesday at least i have the day off already and don’t have to worry about work #everything sucks soooooo fucking bad rn i won’t lie i’m not doing too great #and i miss el so much like i would kill to be able to hug my gf right now #their mom sent me a video today of them laying on the couch with their parents cat cuz they visited for father’s day #and i’ve cried twice while watching it…#argh. anyway. going to go watch a silly little video of some sort and maybe sleep early cause i haven’t been sleeping well #it’ll be ok 🧡#p

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mrfoox · 3 months

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.... OK I really hope I can keep this dude ♥

#miranda talking shit #Like... I just want him around me... Yeah. First visit I thought it may be how I felt. Now I'm like lol yeah #8+ hour visit later... Not even that I just... Am being used for sx like we talk so much #We talked about past experiences and love and children etc. Like... I guess we just vibe. Or rather I feel like we do #We make each other laugh and he seem to want to touch me and want to tell me about things #He talked about metal (or we about music but I'm not a metal head so) and he played songs for me #He found my reactions to them funny. Some song did some guitar thing and I was like “woah!”#He laughed and after the song went into explaining what it was. How it was done and such #“i wonder what you think about this... Or... Well maybe you won't care. But I think you may find it interesting?”#Me already clawing at the phone: yes yes I'm interested show me!!!#I love having people show me things willingly. Like even if it's embarrassing or whatever like hey I am going to love it #He showed Warhammer figures he had painted and talked about that #I love hearing people info dump like omgggg hiiii tell me everything uwu #I took up the... Idea of being fwb and being like... Exclusive about it. And he was like “I mean... I haven't really been seeing anyone els #Mainly bc I don't want to and bc it's so... -makes eye contact with me-“ me: tiring?”-deep sigh-yes so tiring.... “#He shared a lot of personal things in general and one thing in detail he definitely didn't have to #I mean I casually say I got daddy issues but that's like... Yeah my dad never cared for me and my siblings that's just how it is ya know #Idk man. Been a while I... Felt so... At ease and.... Open so quick with anyone. I liked Linus quick but not in this way #I hope I get to keep him around me for more... Like he's.... I think we have things in common but we are definitely still different enough #Want to learn everything I can about him. Plus he let's me be... Overly affectionate and serviceing him like an doting mom (how I want to #Treat everyone in my life but I know majority don't accept it). I get to bring him a drink and help him get dressed to go outside #Men who just goes along with how I want to express affection and not hate it is great #I mean. I don't think he have been touched this... Affectionately before either. I'm very intense and like.... Yeah it's like I'm in love #With you. Sorry I'm stroking your face and looking into your eyes and all :/#He just smiles. Me with basically heart shaped eyes and he's like: :)#Some nerdy brunette: hi (: me: omg? Spend all your free time with me???

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carrotpiss · 3 months

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🐰🧡🐻

#in stark contrast to most of my personal posts this is about me being happy and gay #because i need to just get it out my system bc otherwise i am just going to grab a friend by the shoulders and scream (in joy) in their face #i am dating someone and its really really nice and sweet and cute and like nothing ive ever experienced before #and instead its like every tiny little dream about this kind of thing ive managed to hold onto despite every experience otherwise and ahhhh #the lack of focus on just sex or sex appeal is so nice its like there but as a side thing so its nice and i dont feel like an object #i feel like a human person with thoughts and feelings and interests outside if that and feel safe in that and feel safe that everything wont #just be discarded if i dont want to do that like i feel like boundaries and stuff are an option! without jeopardising everything #and el likes me as much as i like them and wants and sees and communicates that they want something long term and ahhhhhhhh #i just want to cry like holy shit this is everything ive ever wondered about like i have spent so long wondering what this feeling would #actually feel like and its so good and so indescribable and ahhhhhhh #waking up on monday night and seeing them in my bed and cuddling me was just so nice i felt wanted i felt... loved #this all seems so out of left field still i still feel like i just never saw it coming but its so welxome and nice and ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh #my pessimism is still there but its less loud now its more learning to accept this may not be perfect forever but letting me enjoy the now #crouch speaks #it feels so nice to not be scared and to feel secure and ahhh #also it made me laugh El remembered me hitting on then at the Dgoals release show making them blush lol #i only remember the time i hit on them later at the groles show so its funny i pretty much used the same line twice and it still worked #i cant wait to see them again i cant wait to hold hands in public again i cant wait to be idiots who keep blushing too hard and accidentally #kissing eachother on the nose instead of the mouth because we are stupid and gay and pathetic about it hahaha #just ahhhh i could gush forever how perfect the 2!!! dates weve been on were and the fact they want more and more and ahhhhh #this is so lame i know i just haven't experienced anything remotely like this before and its just... wild #like wow holy shit what on earth i have been so increasingly miserablely depressed and insecure from the shea stuff last year and then this #just absolutely removed all of that i actually feel like a human person again with value

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maddy-ferguson · 1 year

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once you see the single nancy vision you really can't unsee it

#single nancy truther 4 life #since as we all know i hate st4ncy right after volume 2 i was like. this makes me want to go back to being really into j4ncy just out of #spite but i couldn't do it because i don't...actually care about j4ncy anymore and i haven't in years #but nancy not ending up with either of them makes so much sense narratively for all three of them and it's half as plot twisty as byler #since stoncy's the more publicized love triangle and is seen as left open-ended by the ga while willelmike...isn't #which is fun. nancy ending up single being unexpected #and something that's really funny is that people who are rooting for j4ncy are like 'well they'll just have a conversation in which #jonathan tells her the truth and then well they'll figure out. emerson or lenora or long distance they'll make it work' even though that #could be said about mlvn too and that's what mlvns expect i mean it's possible...technically...el's like oh that's not my painting btw and #mike says oh that's fine and el says i don't like that you see me as your superhero and mike's like oh don't worry i don't. and then #they end up together like😭 but we don't expect that to happen because there's this elaborate plot line #+ you could lowkey also say they built them up for two seasons only to break them down because they spent season 3 fighting and then well #Fighting (and i dont like how they made up. but thats personal. maybe) and in season 4 he was lying to her and she was ogling her ex..kinda #and i mean it's not like i have a vendetta against them like i do mlvn and st4ncy i'm just saying #and like i say: brf slt

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chirpsythismorning · 7 months

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Some of the evidence supporting Mike not being in love with El is brutal. No, but seriously.

In s3, when El's leg is injured, instead of Mike putting his arm around her waist, allowing him to take some of the weight off her injured leg, he puts his arm around her shoulder, basically having the exact opposite affect of taking the weight off of her, instead just adding more weight for her to have to carry.

Now, I’m not coming at Mike here, I’m actually coming at the writers, because this choice here has everything to do with them using this gesture to signal Mike’s lack of feelings for El, even at the expense of realism.

I say this bc any person with common sense, including Finn and everyone around him and Millie filming these shots, would've known it looked unnatural for Mike to be adding more weight onto El as opposed to taking some off of her.

This means that what Mike did here, Finn was directed to do, and therefore it was for a specific reason.

And we know they could have easily made the opposite choice, because they show us Max AND Lucas doing it.

See how putting an arm around El's waist looks so much more natural? Because homegirl is injured and clearly needs help taking weight off her leg to qualm some of the pain she's experiencing there, which is why Max and Lucas are shown here doing it the correct way.

And so, why can't Mike do the same? Why are the writers making a point to show Mike being incapable of simply taking some weight off of El, instead doing the exact opposite?

I don't think it's as deep as Mike not being able to do something intimate, and that's bc, again we see Max and Lucas doing it.

I honestly think what they're trying to convey with this choice here, is that Mike thinks he's helping El, when he is in fact doing the opposite despite his best efforts. The implications of that and how that sort of aligns with their romantic relationship and what it leads to at the end of s3, going into s4, is pretty spot on.

I do think Mike thinks he's doing the right thing by being with El instead of voicing any doubts at the end of s3, because he is under the assumption that she is in love with him. I do think he believes he is indebted to her and that this is the least he can do after everything they've been through together, which has mostly been riddled with romantic pressures and so continuing that instead of disputing it seems like the only option anyways. Not to mention, he does care for her deeply, so it's not hard to imagine that he's a teenage boy confusing deep care for love (he literally tells us this is his problem when he can only say care and not love to El's face... but that's a whole other conversation).

Still, when it's all said and done, Mike's not actually doing El any favors by being with her romantically, if that is not what he truly wants.

Because that's the sad truth about all of this, which is that you would never want someone to be with you just because you want them. If you knew that they truly couldn't have those feelings for you, you'd want to know, right? You don't deserve someone just because you have deep feelings for them. And I think there's so many layers to this idea, bc many people are capable of not giving Byler a chance bc they truly believe Mike could never return Will's feelings. Will also feels this way atp, so though it hurts, he rips the band aid off, because he would never want Mike to be with him just out of pity or something. No one would want that. And so it all really comes down to who Mike truly loves romantically and wants to be with. And the right thing to do, even if it hurts someone, is to be honest, because being with them just bc you think that will make them happy is never going to be enough if you aren't truly feeling it, or worse, feel it for someone else.

We see how Mike's inability to be honest with El at the end of s3, leads to a season of Mike feeling deeply insecure and undeserving of the love El has to offer him, and even though he does try, he always comes up short. Despite Mike putting up this front that they are the perfect couple, the details are telling us something is off. And it gives him away.

Another example that I think is very similar to this loaded gesture from Mike to El in s3, is the scene in s4 when they hug in the airport.

Common sense ppl, picture this: You're reuniting with your long distance girlfriend. Then suddenly, she runs up to you, with her arms wide open, and instead of opening your arms wide to embrace her properly, you take the bouquet of flowers you brought her as a gift, and shove them against your chest just as she approaches to hug you, effectively squishing the present you got for her (a pretty delicate present at that) for no reason other than to... what exactly?

Like?? El isn't even squishing the present Mike, she's trying to hug you, dude! Your gf is trying to hug you properly and you threw the gift you got for her in between you so you could throw in a careful! x3??

Again, this has less to do with Mike's thoughts and reasoning behind this gesture in a literal sense, and more to do with the simple fact that this is a narrative choice! Mike is not a real person! There are real people sitting down and writing this and actors are having to do multiple takes to act it out. What feels natural for a situation is going to be what is often chosen 9 times out of 10, because of realism and wanting the audience to see stuff happening that is believable. That 1 time though, when it's not being done the way it would usually be, is usually because there's a specific reason for it.!

So the question really is, not why is Mike doing this, but why are the writers having Mike do this, and what message are they trying to convey about Mike's feelings based on his behavior, in these moments where he's just not capable of committing to El genuinely, one way or another?

#byler #no but most of the gay subtext is just so like... you really didn't have to do all that?#gay subtext at the expense of realism? check #mike thinks he's helping el by not breaking her heart and just being with her despite feelings for will he can't deny #very reminiscent of mike's 'maybe you thought you were helping but you weren't. you hurt me! what you did sucks!'#i do think it would be epic too see that moment come full circle but with el saying it to mike this time #bc i'm sure el would much rather have her heartbroken finding out that mike is incapable of loving her romantically #than to find out he was with her bc he didn't want to hurt her even at the expense of his own happiness #like no one wants to have someone be with them out of pity or obligation #we want someone to love us truly and deeply and genuinely!#we see how much el struggles in s4 bc of all the hints she's getting from mike that he doesn't genuinely love her #bc that's the most important part of a romantic relationship #it being equal #and it didn't feel that way #sure she's gonna be pissed #but she's gonna be more pissed he wasn't just honest #friends don't lie obvs

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