Do you think Aemond is overrated? Both in the book and the show

How impressive he is, as in the accomplishments he has that accrue and mesh together into an imposing dressing?

Or his moral character (as in practices good morals)?

Yeah, overall. For different reasons when we go book vs TV show.

Because book!him didn't conquer anything (Criston is the one who arrived at Harrenhal after Daemon abandoned it, and then Aemond came around to claim it since Criston was also fighting for/with him). He thought he won there and that Daemon ran away, but Daemon was actually drawing him and Criston out to fly to KL and meet with Rhaenyra so they could take the city. He doesn't really get to command an army during battle, since Criston advised him to go to Oldtown and wait for Aegon but he instead wanted to just go to KL and fight Rhaenyra....but then after a mysterious argument -- that may or may not have been over Alys Rivers -- Criston and the entire army leave him to go south and Aemond is left alone. Instead of going to KL to do as he previously said he would, he burns down multiple riverlands castles, villages, and towns to draw out any of Rhaenyra's riders. He leaves behind Alys when Sabitha Frey comes for Harrenhal, and when he comes back and fires on her people he takes back Alys and disappears until Daemon draws him out. And then he eventually dies after taking the bait (Yeah he probably knew that this was a final battle of sorts. Doesn't negate that he underestimated Daemon even though the older man fooled him twice). With a sword thrust into his other remaining eye so hard that it stays in his corpse at the bottom of a lake and out through the back of his neck.

But even though we are only in the first season of HotD, the book's suggestion of his character outstrips the show's. The show's Aemond is both whitewashed AND a more pathetic version of him because the writers refused to give him half as much violence, anger, and amoral volatility as his book self has. Aemond is a lot more confident, tongue-whipping, vocal, etc and had been so since he was a small child:

Two years later, she produced a daughter for the king, Helaena; in 110 AC, she bore him a second son, Aemond, who was said to be half the size of his elder brother, but twice as fierce.

AND

Prince Aemond, despite the loss of his eye, had become a proficient and dangerous swordsman under the tutelage of Ser Criston Cole, but remained a wild and willful child, hot-tempered and unforgiving.

(Fire and Blood; “A Question of Succession”)

The word “remained” lets me know that Aemond was “willful”, “hot-tempered” and “fierce” from young childhood. And there are no suggestive contradictions to this characterization. If anything, how he speaks about Rhaenyra, how he beat his nephews "savagely" in the Vhagar claim and eye incident, and his behavior during the war all support the fact that he was a raging, misogynist bitch with too much power, a desperate need to prove himself, and an unwarranted axe to grind. Plus there are no accounts of him being a benevolent or even just a mild force to be reckoned with.

In HotD, he's presented first to audiences as a nonprovoking victim of bullying...when he would have been the bully in canon.

Was it cool to see a dragon claiming happen? Of course. And if you didn't know about F&B or hadn't ead it, you'd be all for Aemond in that scene due to the bullying. (And after the fight scene you should at least feel conflicted -- that's what the writers seem to be going for. I say you should still dislike him even if you hadn't read the book -- if you see what the original purpose of this scene is.) But from the beginning, book!him and his brothers hated the V boys (quote above).

Aemond purposefully kills Lucerys in canon. And for a guy (in the show) supposedly into the "philosophies" and learned...he couldn't muster the calm to not pursue his nephew in a rage? He couldn't not challenge him in front of Borros?!

This change (because it doesn't exist in canon) makes Aemond look even worse and more pathetic because he had the supposed material to develop a more rational mindset (as the show implies)...but throws it all out the window at Storm's End.

And Lucerys didn't even provoke him at Storm's End. Aemond was the one who approached him to demand his eye for his lost one!

Then there is the fact that medieval "philosophies" in the real world were written by religious supporters, monks, friars, nuns, and generally religious people. Would there be more moderately religious or atheist texts, yes, but the bulk came from religious persons either interpreting the Bible and its events or reusing ancient Greek and Roman writers and philosophers' thoughts and Christian-izing them, and citing word of mouth and other Christian principles or thinkers.

An example of the latter is how Tertullianus, Saint Augustine of Hippo, Aquinas, and Saint Ambrose all developed the idea that no human could truly shapeshift because they do not have God's shape-creating power to modify and the "nature", i.e., the soul, and that any subsequent change reported is actually delirium, hallucination, or the work of witches' and demons' illusions. Because they do not have God's power, they are rather creating illusions rather than real transformation and shapeshifting. And the "evidence" or reasoning came from people's word of mouth and eye witness accounts that were not disproven because those were the accounts and the mode by which they had the materials.

So if Westeros is modelled after medieval Europe and England, we can assume that these "philosophies" are these kind of texts, what always seek to prove the Faith's and the Seven gods' primacy and legitimacy, even if they were written by maesters. Highly biased. All it likely did for Aemond was reinforce his patriarchal obligations and privileges as well as his prejudices against his nephews.

*EDIT* The person who did read philosophies and prepared themselves mentally as well as physically would be Jacaerys Velaryon, not Aemond. He's the one giving military commands and such (the Red Sowing, Battle of the Trident, etc.) and he is the one who would have had to work hard to show that he was a capable ruler and commander because enough of the court suspected his parentage. *END OF EDIT*

Then there is the set up for Alys Rivers in the 9th episode, where he goes to get Aegon back with Criston. They talk to an older female sex worker whom Aegon took Aemond to have sex with when the guy was 13, and it seems Aemond is very uncomfortable or dismissive when she addressed him. People who have read the book know that this is setting us up for Alys, but instead of a situation where Aemond claims Alys as his sex slave/war prize just because he wanted to (from attraction) and could, the show is leading us into a narrative where Alys might be the one to victimize Aemond through psychological manipulation. All because she is at least 20 years older than him. Meanwhile, again , canon Aemond is fierce, volatile, and violent; he is a prince; he was trained by Cole to be a very good swordsman and fighter; at Harrenhal, he had a whole host of soldiers; he has a dragon. In what world could Alys Rivers be Aemond's abuser?! She could be any age, and she would always be at a heavy disadvantage.

If she ever were to emotionally manipulate him, it would be due to survival and take back power that was taken from her, not out of evil or selfishness or sexual perversion. Especially if she did have visions of the future, and told Aemond that Daemon would be at Gods Eye, she would have seen Daemon kill or injure Aemond....which means that if she did have visions, then she purposefully sent Aemond to die. She would have used his preexisting arrogance and desperate need to have a legacy of his own against him.

Even if she were to be a conniver, should I really feel bad for him, with all that he is?

Not only do these changes in writing and characterization all make Aemond a lot less confrontational, bold, etc, it also reduces his accountability. Because everything can be traced back to how "helpless" and "wronged he was". Meanwhile, this is a terrible way to look at what his loss of eye and subsequent evil acts means for a story that tries to show what patriarchy and entitled upperclassed men/boys can do when given a lot of leeway or allowed to develop a sense that they can and should demand more (for power respect, and glory).

Reducing or removing accountability is what Condal and the writers are pretty much going for, unfortunately. Since apparently they wish to make Aemond more reactive than proactive. As in he reacts to things as they happen. But that's not how writing stories works, characters drive the story forward in ASoIaF not plot, and reducing accountability and action only dulls the character. Where is the passion of ambition that drives him and his mother? Gone, because apparently wanting power at the cost of even your own integrity and/or others' lives with no just provocation makes you "boring".

So, in all and again, yes Aemond is criminally overrated. In both versions. He's also better and more entertaining in the book by being so comically evil while still making more sense as a character due to that unbridled entitlement fostered in him.

Soooo I posted a thing :)

Fishskin Robes of the Ethnic Tungusic People of China and Russia

Oroch woman’s festive robe made of fish skin, leather, and decorative fur trimmings [image source].

Nivkh woman’s fish-skin festival coats (hukht), late 19th century. Cloth: fish skin, sinew (reindeer), cotton thread; appliqué and embroidery. Promised gift of Thomas Murray L2019.66.2, Minneapolis Institute of Art, Minnesota, United States [image source].

Back view of a Nivkh woman’s robe [image source].

Front view of a Nivkh woman’s robe [image source].

Women’s clothing, collected from a Nivkh community in 1871, now in the National Museum of Denmark. Photo by Roberto Fortuna, courtesy Wikimedia Commons [image source].

The Hezhe people 赫哲族 (also known as Nanai 那乃) are one of the smallest recognized minority groups in China composed of around five thousand members. Most live in the Amur Basin, more specifically, around the Heilong 黑龙, Songhua 松花, and Wusuli 乌苏里 rivers. Their wet environment and diet, composed of almost exclusively fish, led them to develop impermeable clothing made out of fish skin. Since they are part of the Tungusic family, their clothing bears resemblance to that of other Tungusic people, including the Jurchen and Manchu.

They were nearly wiped out during the Imperial Japanese invasion of China but, slowly, their numbers have begun to recover. Due to mixing with other ethnic groups who introduced the Hezhen to cloth, the tradition of fish skin clothing is endangered but there are attempts of preserving this heritage.

Hezhen woman stitching together fish skins [image source].

Top to bottom left: You Wenfeng, 68, an ethnic Hezhen woman, poses with her fishskin clothes at her studio in Tongjiang, Heilongjiang province, China December 31, 2019. Picture taken December 31, 2019 by Aly Song for Reuters [image source].

Hezhen Fish skin craft workshop with Mrs. You Wen Fen in Tongjian, China. © Elisa Palomino and Joseph Boon [image source].

Hezhen woman showcasing her fishskin outfit [image source].

Hezhen fish skin jacket and pants, Hielongiang, China, mid 20th century. In the latter part of the 20th century only one or two families could still produce clothing like this made of joined pieces of fish skin, which makes even the later pieces extremely rare [image source].

Detail view of the stitching and material of a Hezhen fishskin jacket in the shape of a 大襟衣 dajinyi or dajin, contemporary. Ethnic Costume Museum of Beijing, China [image source].

Hezhen fishskin boots, contemporary. Ethnic Costume Museum of Beijing, China [image source].

Although Hezhen clothing is characterized by its practicality and ease of movement, it does not mean it’s devoid of complexity. Below are two examples of ornate female Hezhen fishskin robes. Although they may look like leather or cloth at first sight, they’re fully made of different fish skins stitched together. It shows an impressive technical command of the medium.

赫哲族鱼皮长袍 [Hezhen fishskin robe]. Taken July 13, 2017. © Huanokinhejo / Wikimedia Commons, CC BY 4.0 [image source].

Image containing a set of Hezhen clothes including a woman’s fishskin robe [image source].

The Nivkh people of China and Russia also make clothing out of fish skin. Like the Hezhen, they also live in the Amur Basin but they are more concentrated on and nearby to Sakhalin Island in East Siberia.

Top to bottom left: Woman’s fish-skin festival coat (hukht) with detail views. Unknown Nivkh makers, late 19th century. Cloth: fish skin, sinew (reindeer), cotton thread; appliqué and embroidery. The John R. Van Derlip Fund and the Mary Griggs Burke Endowment Fund; purchase from the Thomas Murray Collection 2019.20.31 [image source].

Top to bottom right: detail view of the lower hem of the robe to the left after cleaning [image source].

Nivkh or Nanai fish skin boots from the collection of Musée du quai Branly -Jacques Chirac. © Marie-Lan Nguyen / Wikimedia Commons, CC BY 4.0 [image source].

Detail view of the patterns at the back of a Hezhen robe [image source].

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One of the characterization complaints I've had of the WoT TV show is "everyone is more of an asshole, except for Nynaeve". Just, everyone has had their edges hardened in ways that make for Storytelling Drama, but do damage to some of the things that made the characters great.

This is perhaps biggest in the case of Moiraine.

In the books (especially EOTW), Moiraine is almost always cool and composed, but she's also just...kind? She's nice to everyone (in a "I'm a noble and better than you" way, to be sure). She's welcome everywhere she goes as Mistress Alys. She tips exceptionally well. She's inspiring to the Two Rivers folks after they started being afraid of her, and before then everyone was super excited to see a nice lady. She goes out of her way to reassure people that she's there to help, and then just does (thinking about how she rid Basel Gill's inn of rats).

When she does get angry, she's quick to water-under-the-bridge it. There are a couple times she gets legitimately mad at the kids: with Mat and the Dagger (at Rand, who she forgives for ignorance, and for Mat) and then promptly goes out of her way to help Mat; and when the boys tell her about dreams they'd been having. And in both cases, she just lets it pass while making it clear the same doesn't have to happen again.

--

In the show, Moiraine shows her Aes Sedai ring immediately in the TR, and gets them to do what she wants out of intimidation. She blackmails Liandrin. She bullies her sister in Caihrean and is a dick to her nephew. She's an asshole in Fal Dara (although the show made sure to turn the awesome Amalisa and Algalmar into assholes as well). She spends S2 being a dick to Lan.

I think Rafe misremembered her "cool and aloof and uncommunicative" as "is an asshole". But also, in a lot of modern film, "is an out-of-character asshole" seems to be the type of Drama that film critics prefer.

Book Moiraine is beloved throughout the Westlands (see also the number of world leaders who come up to say hello at Merrilor!). I just cannot imagine RP's Moiraine being adored like that, by anyone.

It is possible to have a character who is kind, while also possessing deep complexity as well as major character flaws, but it's somewhat seldom pulled off.

“Issa Laesi Naejot Drāmagon Tolvȳn Bona Tolvȳn Issa Prūmia Daor”(‘Open My Eyes to Everything that Closes My Heart’)

(Limited use of Y/N)

PLOT :

You were a Belaerys, with the Blood of Old Valyria in your veins, future Queen of Sothoryos. Up until eight years before the Dance of Dragons, everyone thought the Belaerys family was gone after the Doom. You were well-respected by everyone except most of the Greens. Despite that, you were officially given a seat on the new High Council. The Hand, Otto Hightower, was trying to bring more countries to their aid, but his excuse was to bring peace between countries. Planning to wed you to Daeron, the Small Council of the Greens are shocked when Aemond refuses to offer you Daeron in order to take you for himself.

TAKES PLACE BETWEEN 129-133 AC

THIS IS YOU

This is for an Aemond fic I’m writing. It will not have the AFAB reader (she/her) referred to as “Y/N” often. If you want me to make her look like you, lmk what you look like through asks or replies. I can do very fair to very dark skin tone. I can maybe make her 30lbs more than the generic version I chose. ☹️ I just chose her look as a generic base.

Excerpts:

“You had been wearing a hood and mask to protect your face while flying, but you had removed it. You were getting off of your dragon when he finally approached.”

“Your dragon was named Molcajete. She was black with dark purple markings. She was at least 20% bigger than Vhagar.”

“Your eyes were lined with an enchanted coal (to keep your eyes clear of debris) and they were an exquisite shade of purple with flecks of gold. They sparkled in the afternoon sunlight like so many stars in the night sky. He thought he was in love with you already.”

Notes & Trigger Warnings under the cut.

NOTES

I am 90% sure I am neurodivergent because I miss a lot of social cues (among 9/10 other things that can diagnose someone as ND), if my writing seems stiff, please lmk.

Guys, this is very Alys-coded, but I didn’t even know about Alys Rivers (because I have not yet read the book, I just did a lot of show watching and reading of Westeros Wiki) until I practically finished writing. Also, any time you see a picture of a dragon I made, please note the software doesn’t actually have dragons, so I had to make velociraptors with bird wings. 😢 Sorry, but it’s very sad for me.

Also, this is very AU, but still in whatever fake medieval time period this is based on. However, things are very slow and don’t only take place within two years for certain plot things to work. It starts shortly before Lucerys’ death, which will take place at some point during the story.

I try to make as many visuals as possible, as I’m that type of person. For my ridiculously expansive “country/continent” of Sothoryos, I got really bored and for some reason painted major bodies of water in the islands. I know Sothoryos is inspired by Africa, but I am Hispanic (Aztec) and wanted to give it a hispanic flair. Some of the Islands and cities are made up names, but others are named Nahuatl things.

I do not speak Nahuatl or High Valyrian (well), but I did look up words for things from multiple sources. I know words might be out of order because verbs are supposed to go last in High Valyrian.

Very Canon-Divergent, mostly because I don’t want the dragons to die. I’m changing Aemond’s characterization a little bit, but with a reason - LOVE. I also am not good at writing the proper way they speak on the show. I have re-read 50 times, so I’m sorry if I messed up somewhere, but I tried. BTW, if you’d be interested in being a beta reader, lmk.

I’m going to try my hardest not to specify reader’s color, but I kind of imagine myself (obviously) and I might accidentally write something referring to light skin. If I do something like that, please lmk. I don’t want to exclude anyone. I would like to write gender neutral, but that’s really hard for me because I’m AFAB and cis and I don’t want to upset anyone by not understanding that struggle.

BACK TO STORY MASTERLIST

TRIGGER WARNINGS

TW FULL STORY :

Talk of Abortion, Emotionally Abusive Relationships (Aegon x Everyone), Alcohol, Blood, Branding, Bullying, Childbirth, Death, Drugs, Fire, Hallucinations, Incest, Marriage, Miscarriage/Stillbirth, Misogyny, Murder, Pregnancy, Profanity, Sexism, Slut Shaming, Smut, Violence, War, P in V, Sex, Fingering, F in A, Assplay, Prostate Massage, No Cheating, MDNI, 18+ , enm, ethical non-monogamy, Breeding Kink

Reader is only Sunshine! for Aemond. To everyone else, she is usually kind and even-tempered, unless she is disrespected. Aemond is only soft and gentle toward reader.

LOOk I’m not saying that the dragon show is perfect, but I’m tired of reading these takes about how the show doesn’t understand the source material. That it has a pro-Targ stance. How people can say that even after a finale where two Targs lose control of their fire-breathing nukes and end up jump-starting the bloodiest civil war in Westerosi history?? I don’t know.

People seem to think that the show has portrayed Rhaenyra as perfect (questionable) and the good guy, and wouldn’t it be better if they’d stayed more faithful to the source material where Rhaenyra was kinda awful and a terrible leader?

Here’s the thing about the source material okay (and I’ve seen surprisingly little discussion of this): F&B is written from the perspective of a Maester living in a world steeped in violent misogyny. Maester Gyldayn’s prejudice against women colors his interpretations of events. I think Martin expects the reader to engage with this aspect of the text. That not only are we dealing with three unreliable sources, but the narrator himself has his own prejudices. Women who birth trueborn male children are spoken of much more charitably than women who refuse to marry or exhibit any sort of sexual agency. In fact, any woman exercising sexual agency has been characterized as fickle, manipulative, or vindictive (e.g. Saera Targaryen, Rhaenyra, Alys Rivers, etc.). So we can’t take any of the Maester’s impressions about women at face value. This shit is subtextual and it is frustratingly ignored by A LOT of book readers. 

HotD is directly engaging with this latent theme in F&B. Which is GREAT and unexpected after the way GoT treated women. A lot of people seem to think that the show is pro-team black, but I think the show’s just pro-Rhaenyra (it’s also pro-Alicent, I’m sorry if you can’t accept this but Rhaenyra 👏and👏 Alicent👏 are👏 the 👏protagonists). Or at least it’s trying to portray her with more empathy and nuance. Book!Rhaenyra doesn’t have much agency. Daemon is the driving force behind everything she does. He teaches her how to have sex, he fights all the battles she wins; after Luke’s death she’s barely involved in the war. From the perspective of a misogynistic Maester this must be the truth. The show could’ve portrayed a more morally gray Rhaenyra but ultimately the writers decided to make this show about Rhaenyra and Alicent and their tragic, doomed love affair the disintegration of their relationship, as a commentary on how violent patriarchal systems ruin people even when they have generally good intentions. And show!Rhaenyra’s far from perfect, she’s arrogant, she (like her groomer uncle) has issues with consent, she absolutely takes advantage of her dumb dad’s callous treatment of everyone apart from her.

So the fucking white stag is the thing people bring up as an example of the the show picking Rhaenyra as the rightful ruler/ chosen one. But this ignores the context of the what happened before we see the white stag. Viserys’s hunting party has caught a normal stag, and we see him unwilling to kill it but caving under the pressure because that’s who he is as a person and as a king. Viserys hates violence but when it is expected of him he will enact it (cutting open his first wife to get an heir, committing marital rape on his second wife). Rhaenyra sees the white stag but she shows restraint. Her claim to the throne is already threatened by Aegon’s birth, killing the stag would have been as symbolic gesture to show the lords present at the hunt that her father had made the right choice when naming her as heir. But unlike her father (and her uncle) Rhaenyra does not believe in using violence as a show of strength (something that becomes relevant again in the finale).

The stag can’t be a sign that Rhaenyra is the divinely appointed ruler of Westeros because we (and the writers) know how this all ends. 

AND THEN there’s prophecy and the business with the dagger. Now we’ll have to see where they go with this (I think they have some coherent plan with this). But does the prophecy as the reason for Aegon’s conquest now cast Targaryen imperialism in a positive light? Well again, we know how the story ends. It was a dumb af ending but this is the prequel to GoT the show, so writers know how this ends. The Targs don’t do shit with this dagger. Their precious prophecy will be lost to time. The most they did was act as glorified couriers who brought the dagger from Valyria. All their ideas of grand destiny will amount to nothing. What do you call that? Dramatic irony? 

Not sure if this has been asked, but if so then you're free to ignore this message. I was wondering if you could articulate why you like Aemond Targaryen as opposed to Daemon Targaryen. The latter seems to have more prominence in the story than the other.

I'm gonna go off the show, since that's what I'm currently more invested in when it comes to Dance stuff (I read all of F&B but the parts I reread the most are always about the Conquerors, as I love them).

So, part of it is that, quite simply, Daemon's a misogynistic ass and Aemond, as far as has been portrayed, isn't. I don't care for Daemon trying to groom his fourteen year old niece, I don't care for Daemon calling his wife misogynistic slurs when she didn't do anything except be married to him, I certainly don't care for him bashing her head in with a rock and getting away with it, I don't care for him trying to ruin Rhaenyra's reputation, I don't care for him then literally leaving her half naked in a brothel in a city notorious for being dangerous (she could have been raped, she could have been killed, the fact that she got back to the Red Keep without a scratch is a miracle), I don't care for him calling Alicent a whore because his half-rotting brother finally croaked, I don't care for his neglect of his children by Laena and even Laena herself (and I don't care for it in metaverse either, I really liked Daemon and Laena's book relationship and I hate how they screwed that AND how it's yet another example of how poorly the Velaryons, the only prominent characters of color, are being handled by the writers), and I definitely won't care for when he orchestrates Blood and Cheese to go after women who had fuck all to do with what happened to Lucerys's boring ass. He's a dick, which already isn't gonna endear me to him, and he's a sexist dick at that, and I don't like it.

Getting a bit deeper into it, my dislike of Daemon also comes from the fact that there's just nothing there. I've complained about this before, but everything that's actually interesting about Daemon seems to come primarily from stuff admitted about him after the fact or from Matt Smith's own acting choices beyond the script. In the actual writing of his character, he's an asshole and he wants to be king and he has a sexual obsession with his niece who he's known since she was a baby; that's it. It's left to the audience to then lean into Matt Smith's choices for the character, extrapolate what we can from creator interviews and some pretty heavy subtext, and then try to craft something ourselves. And even canon events about Daemon that I could get invested in, like his relationship with Nettles (problematic? yes, but it still tickles my fancy because there's a Lot there), just hasn't happened yet and isn't enough to get me pre-invested.

That's not the case with Aemond. The stuff about Aemond I enjoy and that endear me to him as a character, like his struggles with bullying, his bond with Vhagar, his contentious but ultimately loyal relationship with Aegon, his love for his mother, his internal issues surrounding justice denied and the need for retribution, even just his basic characterization in the four episodes we've seen him in, those are in the script. Those are integral parts of his character, that are present and visible and impactful to other characters and the story at large in the broader narrative. There is actual substance to Aemond as a character in a way there just isn't as Daemon. And even Daemon is going to be more "prominent" due to his connection to Rhaenyra, the storyline at the ready for Aemond is FAR more interesting than Daemon's. Daemon in season two is going to orchestrate the worst thing that happens in the Dance and then bounce around Westeros doing God knows what, the only thing I'm looking forward to from him are any interactions with Alys Rivers, but because I'm excited for her, not him. Aemond, on the other hand, has a lot of good set up. Because of his actions, he created an accident that he tried to avoid that has had profound repercussions on his family, and is tied to a horrible act that is going to affect the people closest to him. How is he going to deal with his emotions regarding his own culpability? How much hate and blame is he going to place on Daemon? On Rhaenyra? How will this impact his relationships with the people affected, his mother and his sister and his brother? How is this going to duel with his feelings of superiority, especially once he becomes Aegon's regent? What's gonna motivate him to take the regency but also never allow himself to be called king and remain steadfast for his brother? Is he going to enjoy it or not? We seem to be getting more stuff with him and Criston, how's that gonna be affected by Blood and Cheese and their subsequent military campaign together?

Like, see? There's so much more richness available for Aemond's character, because there's so much more to Aemond's character than Daemon's. Daemon may be more prominent, yes, but he's incredibly shallow on a writing level, and combined with the fact that he's mostly a shitty person, he becomes something I dislike (and I love characters who are shitty people, my favorite character in The Magnus Archives is Peter Lukas and I constantly blab about how I want his cruel sadism to be given more attention by the fandom). So prominence doesn't really factor into it for me, because there's just too much working against Daemon beyond that, and conversely, too much in Aemond's favor.

hello there! just wanted to send an encouraging ask as I very rarely look at any hotd-related content on here (due to the lack of critical thinking that can be found and the pure vitriol spewed through anonymous messages - many lovely mutuals have also received horrendous anons telling them they should be physically harmed since they do not enjoy an incestuous crackship and that’s absolutely unhinged!) and you’ve handled these absurdly obnoxious, transparent anons in your inbox with grace and eloquence. it’s been a year and many moots on twitter have learned to keep to themselves regarding opinions related to alys/aemond and how it could possibly be interpreted as a gothic tale/romance (as they keep tabs over there too) but it’s truly pathetic and unsettling to see how a certain part of this fanbase CONTINUES to spew their hate and try to incite a reaction. rooting for a female character to be sexually assaulted simply because one is bitter over an incestuous crackship not happening is the definition of childish and frankly very odd. there’s already more than enough of that in this whole franchise and aemond taking a woman by force is simply not in-keeping with how they’ve characterized him in the show (as you’ve aptly acknowledged) and is very unlikely to happen (much to their displeasure). their relationship is not a fairytale but that doesn’t mean it has to include that at all.

anyhow this ended up being way too long but wanted to commend you for dealing with this pure nonsense from Those shippers! I’ve turned my anon option off to avoid this sort of behavior and moots who think alys has alot to offer as a character have received tons of hate while minding their own business. it’s been a year and they are STILL insufferable. seems they cannot cope with the fact that she will be in the show and that their ship is not happening. very sad. in any case, gayle seems like a very dedicated actress and she and ewan are surely to have an interesting screen presence together. can’t wait to see what they bring as a duo chemistry-wise and their performances! 🥰

Ahhh Cecilia!! I'm so sorry for getting around to your message so late, but I am all the more grateful to you for reaching out at the time. Aside from those two anons (to whom I so eloquently requested to throat my cock), I think I did a pretty good job at handling this ongoing dissent. Thank you so much once again!

I am so sorry that you guys had to deal with this kind of nonsense before, BUT I seriously hope that these anons have not deterred your enthusiasm for any Alysmond content. We barely make for a moderately-sized Kpop girl group -- and I hope the few remaining girlies are still active to keep this small hive humming and buzzing. Alysmond is a ship that will sustain irrespective of what the show follows - i mean, we have other crackships that are still going strong after all. We should grant ourselves a bit of freedom to express our creative interpretations of the narrative.

Coming to what you said about Aemond's depiction in the show, I 100% stand by that take. He's not shown to be an unreasonable brute who will take someone by force. Moreover from whatever leaks we've got till now (though I would take them with a grain of salt), Gayle's Alys is also made to come off as a very kooky character. Regardless of what they show on-screen, I am already drowning ten-feet deep into these headcanons -- IMAGINE the first interaction between Alys 'a barn owl cursed to live in human form' Rivers and Aemond 'tis I who studies philosophy' Targaryen. I don't care what anyone says because that's a recipe for deliciously dark and romantically gothic meet-cute. That's our quirky cursed witch and menacingly tortured kinslayer! If Condal messes it up, then we have enough material to draft multiple fucking AUs for ourselves. LOL I've even suggested earlier how we only need Gayle in Alys' costume -- because rest assured, we'll do the rest with moodboards and countless video edits.

I am extremely tight on schedule since I am doing my Masters while working a full-time job -- and because of that, I am short on producing the kind of content I'd like BUT hopefully, I can get something out by the end of this month. To be very honest, I actually don't really mind crackships (I read them all the time and have shared links to some of my favorites) but what really annoys me is this constant need to put down other ships to justify your own little delulu headcanons.

Anyway thanks for reaching out once again, and you are welcome to take a nice cushy spot in our coven.

Love, Kalki. 🤗

The Shie*a Seastar stanning from targ nation is so funny to me because it's just so on brand for them. A character with little to no characterization outside of being described as hot and having two important men running after her. It's almost as if targs are literally only in it for the self insert power fantasy and aesthetic of stanning light eyed blondes lmao.

Few things about historical ASOIAF is liable to make me angrier than Sh1era Starfish. I’m a fan of a house with not a lot of explicit characterization (House Blackfyre), so I don’t have much of a leg to stand on when criticizing people who stan minor characters; however, Sh1era is one of my least favorites because her SSM says that men killed themselves after falling from her favor, which, considering my experiences with mental health and suicidal ideation, is so pointlessly awful on a personal level you rarely get with ASOIAF campy cartoon villains (like Aemond or Alys Rivers). But then some of her fans mocked me a few times for pointing out she suicide-baited, hypocritically saying it’s just an SSM so we don’t know what happened (when they don’t give House Blackfyre or Daena Targaryen that courtesy), or even that the men deserved it (which is such noxious victim-blaming I hope they never have a family member going through mental health issues). I don’t think Aegor “ran after Shiera” since there’s little hard evidence to indicate such, and considering he’s a favorite, I resent her fans reducing the traumatized revolutionary to a scorned lover (of course tagging and refusing to take down posts when called out on it), when he had much bigger, more meaningful motivations for his actions (but that would require the Tàrg fans to consider their faves treated others like trash and we can’t have that). But then they have to Woobify her, calling her “morally gray” when she has literally no redeeming qualities; while comparing Daena to a torturing murderer (Rhanyra, when it’s their fave Elaena who has more similarities), saying Bethany Bracken should’ve known better than to anger A4, expressing the desire to kill Rohanne in her tag…but that’s okay because those women are on the “bad side” while Sh1era is “good” just like her paramour. When you call yourself a fan of Sh1era, don’t claim the moral high ground over those who like House Blackfyre. Most of the time I act like she doesn’t exist and considering how she’s a not-very-good red herring and satellite love interest for Bl00draven, it’s laughably easy to do.

                                                                   𝑨𝑬𝑴𝑶𝑵𝑫  &&  𝑨𝑺𝑬𝑿𝑼𝑨𝑳𝑰𝑻𝒀

tl ; dr  : he’s asexual but not sex repulsed , does find aesthetic attraction in other people , and only consents to sexual relationships with those he has a strong romantic attachment to ( good personality and strong intellect generally required ! )

i’m not usually one to make super long-winded meta posts about things , but being that this is something pretty important to me ( and also something i’ve noticed i’ve gotten a lot of questions about ) , i thought i’d give a go at discussing  aemond  &&  asexuality  . 

please note that some of the info i am about to dump on this topic is based solely off of  my  own  experience  , and the research i have done to discover my own identity. it is  NOT  meant to generalize the experiences of those on the ace spectrum ; it is simply meant to explain how this identity pertains to aemond , and how he experiences the world. :) 

first and foremost :  yes  ,  aemond  does  have  libido  . he can and does become aroused , and does experience and enjoy physical pleasure. that is to say , he  is  not  sex repulsed – meaning that he is not adverse to engaging in sexual activity , and as many of you know , can be rather enthusiastic about hitting the bedroom with his romantic partners. sometimes asexuality can be conflated with never having or wanting sex ( which  CAN  BE  true in some a-spec identifying folks ! ) , but in aemond’s experience , this is not the case. it can be said , however , that his sex drive is  low  compared to others around his age. 

with that in mind , let’s dive a little deeper :  does  aemond  find  others  attractive  ? the short answer : yes. the long answer : yes , but only to an extent. there are a series of traits that can be found in both men and women that aemond finds aesthetically pleasing , in the way that someone might find a certain painting style appealing , or might feel certain flowers are more beautiful than others.  there  is  no  sexual  desire  attached  to  this  kind  of  attraction  . so , for instance , aemond may look at alys rivers and think the dress she’s wearing is gorgeous on her , or that her eyes are the most beautiful he’s ever seen ; however , the fact that he’s found physical attributes about her which he is drawn to  does  not  indicate any desire to have sex with her. let’s go back to the flower analogy : you might think a rose that you stumbled upon in a botanical garden is the most awe-inspiring thing you’ve ever seen , but you don’t want to fuck it. aemond is like that , but with people , too.  

it is here that i will briefly note :  personality  and  intellect  are  far  more  attractive  to  aemond  than  any  physical  attribute  will  ever  be  , especially when considering a potential partner !

so  under  what  circumstances  does  aemond  get  it  on  ?  a great question ! if you are familiar with the term  ‘  demisexual  ’  , that would be a pretty good way to think of it ( though i would characterize aemond as being so far on the extreme end of disinterested in sex , asexual is the more apt identifier in my opinion ) ! in plain terms :  aemond  will  enthusiastically  consent  to  sexual  relations  with  those  he  has  formed  a deep  (  romantic  )  connection  to  . for the one-eyed prince ,  LOVE  AND  SEX  are deeply and inherently connected ; all that to say , he could have  love  without  sex  , but he could not have  sex  without  love  . i would attribute some of this to the values and belief systems he was raised with , but i will also say that , considering the world which he lives in , aemond has an overall pretty progressive view on sex. if a man can have women outside of marriage without repercussion , why then should it be any different for a woman ? while he might have no interest in any of this himself , he does not externalize his views and experiences on others by any means.

and finally , i want to address this :  in  your  headcanon  ,  did  aemond  lose  his  virginity  at  the  age  of  13  as  is  implied  by  the  show  ? i think you can guess my answer , and it is  NO  .  yes  , aegon  did  take aemond to the brothel on his thirteenth name day , and  yes  , aemond  did  go to a room with one of the working girls that night. he won’t lie to you , he was curious at first , and the girl which was selected for him by his brother was indeed very pretty , but when she dropped her robe , straddled his lap , and asked the  sweet  little  prince  what he wanted , aemond promptly responded , ❛  𝐈  𝐖𝐎𝐔𝐋𝐃  𝐋𝐈𝐊𝐄  𝐓𝐎  𝐑𝐄𝐓𝐔𝐑𝐍  𝐓𝐎  𝐌𝐘  𝐒𝐓𝐔𝐃𝐈𝐄𝐒  ,  𝐀𝐍𝐃  𝐈  𝐖𝐎𝐔𝐋𝐃  𝐋𝐈𝐊𝐄  𝐌𝐘  𝐏𝐄𝐑𝐒𝐎𝐍𝐀𝐋  𝐒𝐏𝐀𝐂𝐄  𝐄𝐕𝐄𝐍  𝐌𝐎𝐑𝐄  .  ❜  the girl was duly compensated for her time ( which she mostly spent bored out of her mind as aemond recounted his current studies to her ) , and to this day aegon still doesn’t know the truth about that night.

so yeah , that’s it , that’s the post. if you’ve made it this far , thank you for reading ! as i said before , this is very personal to me ; asexual characters are not easy to find in general , but especially in a series rife ( and often gratuitous ) with sex. i think this is part of what attached me to aemond so quickly , and i’m so glad that all of the lovely people that i’ve spoken to so far have embraced this aspect of him and have been so willing to learn and work with me to develop some amazing plots && dynamics ! so thanks again , and outside of an ic response , i swear you’ll never hear me talk about  anything  this much ever again !

So I’ve had this idea for a while but I’m not sure how to execute it. I’m hoping by sharing it with you all, I might get some inspiration/motivation for actually writing it: What if the Dance of the Dragons was Viserys’ dragon dream. So after Aemma dies (and in this AU Daemon doesn’t make the “heir for a day” comment or this happens before he gets the chance to say it) Viserys decided ‘fuck it, I’m the king, if I don’t want to take on a new wife I don’t have to.’ Plus, having seen his fate he doesn’t want to subject a woman to his condition. So he decides he’s going to change the game completely.

He betroths Rhaenyra and Daemon and names BOTH of them his heirs, to rule as equals. (Obviously this causes an uproar but he knows they can handle it if they all stay together as a family.) As a result, Aegon, Helaena, Aemond and Daeron are Rhaenyra and Daemon’s children.

Helaena is more assertive and more like a young Rhaenyra. They catch early on that she’s a dreamer and pay much more attention to the ‘nonsense’ she expresses while caring for her insects.

Aemond is more confident and is definitely not bullied for not having a dragon. He has all of the good qualities of Daemon and just like his dad is a skilled warrior. (Aegon plans for him to be his hand when he becomes king) And it is no surprise this time when the son of 2 of the fiercest Targaryens claims Vhagar, the largest dragon still remaining in the world.

Daeron takes more after his grandfather, Viserys. He is good natured and jovial, and just a treasure for everyone around him (since he didn’t appear in the show I don’t really know how to combine my ideal characterization for him with how he’s portrayed)

And finally, Aegon. I feel like he would be the perfect combination of Rhaenyra and Daemon. And because he would grow up in a more loving environment, without any pressure of stealing the crown from Rhaenyra, I feel like he wouldn’t feel the need to drown himself in booze and whores. He would be given the chance to enjoy his childhood while also properly preparing him for his eventual reign after his parents. He would still be a snarky little shit from time to time (hello Daemon’s son) but he would also have a firmer grasp on authority (have you meet his new mama?)

As for Alicent, I feel like Viserys would still have had a soft spot for her and wouldn’t want her to suffer a similar fate to his dream. So he arranges for a marriage between her and one of Lord Stark’s sons. This way a) he can get her away from Otto and his manipulation and b) Aegon the Conqueror’s dream said something was building in the North, what better way to strengthen the stronghold up there than to have the Queen’s best friend marry the overlord of that region?

In addition, Alicent ends up giving birth to a girl around Aegon’s age, leading to a betrothal between her and Aegon. I feel like said daughter would be a combination of regal noblewoman (see Sansa Stark) and fierce warrior (see Arya Stark). If Aegon is anything like his parents he’d meet this girl and his immediate reaction would just be:

Aemond would be betrothed to a soft, gentle noble lady from the Riverlands. Who brings along her best friend, caregiver/ (and secret love interest) Alys Rivers.  The three eventually begin a cute polyamorous relationship where Alys and Aemond are certified sunshine protectors and their darling is the sunshine. Aemond would later follow the Targaryen tradition of marrying Alys so the three can live their happy poly life.

Helaena becomes engaged to a Lord from the Iron Islands (I love me some Viking/pirate action). I feel like he would find her interest in bugs to be very enduring, and frequently encourages it, especially once he finds out it helps her do her divination. This would also secure a strong naval fleet for King’s Landing.

Finally, Daeron would be betrothed to a Dornish Princess. This way it would secure an alliance with Dorne that would eventually lead to bringing Dorne into the Seven Kingdoms. I feel like she would be very open-minded and gentle hearted. But this doesn’t make her defenseless. She rather enjoys gardening, and some say half of her garden is full of cooking herbs, the other half is poisons and sometimes, she cooks with both.

Now, what about Laena and Laenor? Laena I could see Viserys arranging a marriage for her with a house that has a strong army to help assist with the Stepstones (perhaps the Blackwoods?) She would probably end up suffering from the same fate however, dying during childbirth. However, since Rhaena and Baela’s relationship with Aemond would be vastly different in this universe, I feel like not only would they be ok with him claiming Vhagar, but maybe even encourage it if he asked for their blessing first.

As for Laenor, if I recall correctly there was a noble lady in the Vale around his time that had a “uniquely” close relationship with her best (female) friend (if you catch my drift). And boy do we love to see gay/lesbian alliances. And if she never bares a child, well some women are barren, right?

So what do you think? Too out there? 

Why do you think they made Aemond a victim of sexual assault as a young 13 years old boy and by an older woman no less? I'm talking about the brothel scene in 1x09 in which he recalls Aegon taking him there when he was 13. Is this some sick way for the writers to establish his future interest in Alys who is also much older than him? Maybe this is another reason why certain parts of the fandom find it hard to believe that he would ever be capable to take a woman as his war prize and it is because he was a victim himself, although being a victim and a perpetrator are not mutually exclusive things.

HotD Episode 9 Scene referred to:

Aemond: Aegon brought me to the Street of Silk on my 13th name day. It was his duty as my brother, he said, to ensure I was as educated as he was. At least that's what I understood him to mean.

Criston: I don't follow.

Aemond: He said, "Time to get it wet."

Criston: Every woman is an image of the Mother, to be spoken of with reverence. (to the Woman) Sometime last night, we misplaced our drinking companion. Knowing that he has been, in the past, a patron of your fine establishment, we thought to inquire here as to his whereabouts. And describe him. That is a delicate matter. You see, the man we seek is the young Prince Aegon. I may trust, I hope, in the discretion of your trade.

Woman: The Prince is not here. Has he been here? Earlier, perhaps? Quite a bit earlier. Years ago, in fact.

Criston: But more recently?

Woman: He does not frequent the Street of Silk. His tastes are known to be... less discriminating.

Criston: Meaning what?

Woman: I wish you luck, good Ser. And my best to your friend. (to Aemond) How you've grown.

Aemond: Hmm.

I would put the major fault of Aemond getting close to a sex worker on his brother Aegon than the sex worker.

As for the specific woman in the scene you're talking about, I think because of this very fact of Aegon's male privilege and status as prince, that that woman was supposed to tease or mock Aemond, seeing how Show!Aemond was so....reluctant to acknowledge her? Is that the right word for this?

But to actually answer the question, yes this is absolutely a way for the writers to set up his relationship with Alys Rivers...

Even though it is very clear that even though Alys is around a little like 20 years older than Aemond in the book, she would have been violently raped or murdered (and a person in her position would have felt this was a strong possibility) if she had seriously resisted Aemond -- the boy-man with fighting skills trained into him since he was at least 10, a foul temper (book version), too up in his own privilege, and a whole ass army behind him. Alys was his war prize, his "reward" and "claim" of power.

For the writers to then show this encounter to emphasize Aemond's vulnerability and show none of, or reduce his evil (in several other ways that I wrote about) is to rewrite and victimize him into an accountable-lessness state. They should not be mutually exclusive, but the show, by god, will make it seem that way.

You will hear green stans telling everyone that we should feel sorry for Aemond getting preyed on by his own war prize, uwu, and how this is still somehow such a morally positive romantic relationship at the same time.

So "we" (they) hated Daemon for supposedly grooming Rhaenyra, but not Aemond for raping a woman because we think that her being older than him changes everything. That his being a prince, a warrior, having a dragon, having killed every single male Strong (adults and children) himself publicly in front of all the survivors, and an army does not matter at all.

This is similar to what happened to the Criston-Rhaenyra thing where people totally discounted how Rhaenyra, being a woman, has less advantages even as heir, Viserys actually being Criston's authority, AND Criston actually had more room to say no than a woman in his position. Because no woman of any class or religion ever was and is not a Kingsguard (since women can't even be knights).

By the way, love that Criston says that all women should be respected and are "images of the Mother" and talks to the woman in the scene as if he does respect her (except the "fine establishment" part) yet in episode 6, he calls Rhaenyra a "cunt" in front of Alicent, freely.

So there is a loose condition on his "respect" for women. some women are more "sacred" than others. Rhaenyra chose to have extramarital sex and had children out of it, who are all great people, yet he thinks she is a "cunt" and a slut. This woman that he speaks to in episode 9 is clearly a sex worker, and while there's nothing morally wrong with being a sex worker, this is not the modern era where we're loosening judgment and this is not a man who has any sort of compassion for people who his society marginalizes or vilifies.

Hypocrites stay hypocrites.

What are your theories about season two? I know we have source material from the books and a lot of people want blood and cheese in the first episode, but honestly I think the showrunners can change or add new scenes, make the characters have more layers, especially Aegon and Helaena. Her dynamic with the children makes the scene more impactful. And I wanted Daeron to have an interaction with his family before the deaths happened.

I'm not sure that they'll do Blood & Cheese right away.

My theory - which doesn't have any backing, just my thoughts - is that Daemon and Rhaenyra will go after Daeron first in Oldtown. I think either they'll send an assassin and or Daemon will go himself to try and kill Daeron. But what they find is a seasoned knight blooded and forged in the Stepstone Wars and Daemon bites off more than he can chew when the master swordsman gives him or their proxy a fight that they can't win.

I suspect that Daemon or their assassin will hurt or kill someone close to Daeron a friend or a girl he loves. And Daeron pursues, returning to King's Landing on his own accord to get revenge on Daemon or Rhaenyra.

Which will be a great irony in the war that had they left Daeron alone than Alicent and Criston would never have sent for him, even at their most dire - cause, I think that Alicent wants one of her children to have a normal and stable life. But now that they upended Daeron's life in Oldtown they awoke the sleeping dragon that will destroy any hope they have of sitting the Iron Throne.

I think Blood & Cheese will be born from their failure to kill Daeron and their understanding that none of Alicent sons are soft targets, so they go after Helaena and the babies instead. I'd say that 2x05 is probably when we'll get "Blood & Cheese" it's be acquit time for Daeron to get to King's Landing and have several interactions with his family and establish his relationship with everyone.

Also, I continuously hear - as does everyone else - that they're gonna be playing up the Aegon/Helaena/Aemond triangle. And five episodes should give it enough time to breath and give characterization to each of them to build up the rivalry between brothers over their sister.

I think 2x01 - 2x05 will be build up and then 2x06 - 2x10 will be the RIverlands Campaign and Rooks Rest. With 2x10 introducing the Dragonseed riders and Alys Rivers.

And I think they'll give Daeron an expanded role and send him into the Riverlands as a Berric Dondarrion type of Outlaw freedom fighter that gives Daemon and the Blackwoods headaches. Because, in the source material, Daeron really doesn't do anything till toward the end of the war. He is Alicent's sworn shield and in charge of King's Landings Defenses. Unless they want to go back to the original version of "Fire & Blood" and give him a storyline based on his canon mutual hatred of Larys Strong and dig deep into that rivalry.

I think 2x01 - 2x05 we'll get Aemond/Helaena/Aegon conflict, a definitive answer to the true nature of Alicent and Criston's relationship, Winterfell, probably the Wall, Sara Snow, and an extended introduction to Daeron and his life in Oldtown.

Omg I saw the new HotD trailer and immediately thought of you! I love your writing so much. What do you think of the trailer? Is the new season going to change your ideas for Graves in any way?

hello and I'm so tickled pink that you love my stuff!!!

I LOVED the new trailer. reduced me to a gibbering mess. loved seeing that B-52 flying fortress of a dragon buzz the army when Aemond and Vhagar did a low pass over. rev up the Bugatti wuheeeee

loved Rhaenyra staring out over Shipbreaker Bay all soot-stained and emotionally fucking drained. pretty sure she did exercise a little bit of Aegon I/Balerion on Harrenhal with Syrax on Storm's End (or at least the Baratheon fleet). let my girl burn it all down

had a major pacing the house moment when they showed a shot of Helaena's face upturned and looking through the black of her veil, then again when she was at knifepoint. i really can't handle it lmfao, i want to leap through the screen and protect muh queen and all of her children. they deserve the world

Aegon being peak brooding menace. Aemond pacing for the throne and looking like he's got his eye on the prize. Alicent staring out over the water (god please let it be a dream sequence or she's at Harrenhal by some plot device and she's staring out over an inlet of the Gods Eye, that would just be TOP LEVEL irony)

ALYS. FUCKING. RIVERS. I can't wait to see the Witch Queen. I can't wait to watch her dynamic with Aemond. I'm so excited for that and Gayle Rankin's overall portrayal. Ewan and her are going to kill it, I just know it (many will die...of fun :) )

regarding Season 2 impacting the story or informing changes on Graves - no, I don't expect it to. not when the goal line is to finish draft and hopefully get everything out in the world prior to or when Season 2 is airing.

the fic will stand canon divergent as all my characterizations of Daeron, Jeyne Arryn (unless she manifests with a hoard of dogs in the show, in which case I will lose my shit lmfao), Cregan Stark, and the twins are likely to differ from how the show will portray them (hell I already did that with fleshing out the twins a lot more than what we saw in season 1 ) - additionally, Cregan is married to his first wife Arra Norrey in my fic, when in canon Arra died in childbirth in the same year Graves is roughly set. already pretty divergent from book and show here, I'm off in the woods, I am deep in the weeds - canon? never heard of her

the epilogue for graves is already pretty set - this is a fic that was written backwards, essentially, with a final line and ending there before there was even a middle of the story!

also, I wonder if we might even see Daeron in season 2 with the casting yet to be finalized for him at the time of writing this reply. in which case, that makes Graves verrrry canon divergent if they eliminate him as a character in the show (I hope they don't).

thanks for the ask, anon!

one thing i keep seeing about how alysmond is inherently problematic because aemond is a rapist and anyone who ships them in the show or is excited to see them in the show condones this

and here’s the little goof people keep ignoring

alys hasn’t been established in the show! we have 0 context foe how this relationship will play out. and i think people wanting to interpret them differently in a non-problematic way (as per the course of the show taking creative adaptive liberties with everything else) is not a bad thing, nor is it being “willfully ignorant” of the text (which is rife with second-hand retelling bias and void of interpersonal detail anyway)

but you what HAS been established by the show? the fact that aemond is very likely a victim of CSA. so all i’m hearing from people when you say things about how he rapes alys, is that you want a victim to become an abuser as Gotcha to reinforce whatever other ship YOU want for him??? and somehow no one seems to think THAT is fucking weird???

there’s also the willful ignorance about how grooming works and alys— REGARDLESS of how their relationship forms— is in a position of power over aemond to be able to do this. and again, throwing these words around about alys being a groomer, assaulting aemond, etc (despite none of that even existing in the text) just as some Gotchas to make people who like alys rivers seem like pervy freaks.

and i cannot emphasize enough how disgusting it is to use aemond’s likely SA as “evidence” that alys WILL assault him too??? because you dont actually care about aemond being a victim, you just don’t like a ship, that’s it.

and to be clear, none of this doing a thing to serve any larger conversation. because you all saw people wanting to interpret this dynamic in a healthier way for Both characters based off the show’s context for aemond and how alys COULD be characterized in the show and yall said NO ACTUALLY, ONE OF THEM NEEDS TO BE A RAPIST AND ABUSER AND BECAUSE I SAID SO NOW YOU CONDONE ABUSE :)

which to be honest, this says a lot more about you all than it does about anyone who enjoys alys rivers as a character or alysmond as a ship, especially because you all just want more incest and that’s it

Lord save us, there's already a Alys Rivers groomed aemond discourse on twitter 😭😭 team Black will do anything but take a look at themselves

LOL why am I not surprised that the discourse that pushed me Green in the first place is already happening. Like you know what, maybe Alys Rivers did groom Aemond! Maybe she bewitched him! Or maybe he was a total creep and took advantage of the fact that he was a literal prince and she was a bastard woman so he could use her for some reason! The thing is I DON'T FUCKING KNOWWWWWWW what happened between them because there are like four sentences total in Fire & Blood that explains their relationship and YOU CAN'T EXTRAPOLATE AN ENTIRE CHARACTERIZATION AND STORY FROM THAT. Not that I'm still overreactive about it but goddamn, the amount of people who are furious that the Greens didn't match up to their completely invented headcanons that were based on almost nothing is baffling to me, and if they don't want to be mad as hell in the future maybe they shouldn't commit to some super specific and insane ideas before the story is actually told.