What do you think stops Rogier from being emotionally vulnerable? Do you think it’s something tied to his pride?
Hi anon!
Oooo, this is a fun question >:3
Really, it could be any number of things. This game is incredibly vague, so it’s very much up to reader interpretation/preference. Here’s my own personal read:
It’s a defense mechanism of sorts. A way to deal with the fact that no one really seems to in his corner. Fia’s using him to get to the cursemark, and D’s had a nasty falling out with him. (If his dialogue about Rogier is anything to go by.) I don’t think anyone else in the Hold even mentions him.
Which is all to say: he’s on his own out there. He doesn’t have anyone to turn to, despite how much he may or may not need it. (And the way I write him; he needs it.)
Maybe this is a personal opinion, but the one thing that feels worse than opening up is doing so and getting something that completely misses the mark in response. God, that’ll kill ya. It’s a gut punch. As alienated as Rogier is implied to be, that kind of “misattunement” or whatever might feel even worse.
So, opening up invites the risk of an interaction turning sour.
Given both D and Fia’s vast schisms in worldviews/values with Rogier, it might feel like a gamble to be vulnerable with of them nowadays. So, by never opening up at all, there’s no guessing game. No dice roll, no Russian Roulette. Utter Detachment = Utter Invulnerability. You can’t lose the game if you never play, right?
To quote one of my chapter endnotes:
Rogier keeps a lot of emotion under the surface. He refuses to express it, and behaves with utter detachment in doing so.
So, any interaction that could caused heightened emotion... it puts that aloof facade he clings to at risk. In a past post, I've summarized Rogier's mental state as this:
There's a fear, when you keep everything bottled up so tight. When you've never had that "safety" to be upset. That when you finally do crack, the whole dam will break, and everything will come out, and it'll be a goddamn mess. There's a fear you'll lose yourself in the flood. It'll be too much for you or anyone else to handle. Visions of avalanche. So on, so forth.
[Ch 17 Endnotes Essay]
So yeah. I think it started out as a way to protect himself in his (presumed) life of nobility before. Something to keep interpersonal interactions predicable and tame; thus easy to navigate. But as time progressed, it’s something he’s become more and more dependent on. Without it, there’s a fear of losing himself in the deluge, so to speak.
I’d like to point to Alberich here. If we want to, we might see Alberich as a sort of corrupted, twisted version of Rogier. A malicious externalization of everything he’s ever let fester inside him. Or at least, what Rogier fears he’d become should he express the depths of his “anger, grief, regret, [and] fears.” A jungian shadow, to go with Crunchy’s style of analysis. (Not that I’ve finished that video yet…)
And if you want my batshit thoughts on Alberich as Rogier’s foil… more here. Cursed art included.
So, uh…. Yeah. I think it’s a defense mechanism, one that’s become the source of many of his problems. A vicious cycle. He can’t trust others because he’s alone; and he’s alone because he can’t trust others.
I know I kept you waiting a while on this answer, anon. Thank you for your patience! Ngl: Baldur’s gate came out on console recently, and… uh… huh? Who am I again? What day is it? I think I finally snapped myself out of it, though. (Lie)
Jokes aside, thank you for the ask anon! :D
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have been toying with the idea of an au wherein shen jiu, after burning down the qiu household and running away, comes across xie lian rather than wu yanzi poaching him immediately afterwards:
i'd imagine in this verse he runs away to town rather than immediately being found in the aftermath of what he's done. at this point, shen jiu would be too paranoid to consider reaching out for directions to cang qiong mountain even if he wanted to make it there: what if they knew what he did? or figured it out if he did know? (if he even had the mind to think of these things through his panic)
he doesn't want to end up begging on the streets again, though—too alike his childhood and last time he was in that position, shen jiu ended up with the qius in the first place
so he takes refuge in temples that he comes across, stealing food when he can before moving to a different part of the rather large town he's ended up in so there's no clear pattern of when he shows up at whichever food stall
despite not holding that same respect and unwavering belief in gods (how could he, after everything he's gone through? shouldn't they have stepped in, sometime? what god would let him suffer as he did, separating him from the only person he loved?) he knows better than to try them, and begrudgingly thanks them for the shelter (because this he did appreciate, at the very least, if nothing else)
winter hits hard when it does, and shen jiu, after spending so many years in the qiu household, forgot how the cold seeps into your skin and bones without solid walls to keep out the frigid breeze.
he quickly falls ill with nothing to protect him from the elements but his threadbare clothing, and when he grows ill, he becomes slow. shen jiu nearly gets caught stealing, running away before he can be dragged to a town guard for his offence, but earning himself a nasty wound to his leg as he retreated
sickness + the cold + the wound leave him weak and wanting: missing qi-ge, reminiscing on nights where they'd curl up together for warmth, still cold but not alone, the two of them steady against the storm that raged on ahead of them
fever-ridden and teetering close to death, shen jiu wanders into a temple late at night and sinks to his knees, falling to his side, heart-rate slowing. in his delirium, he misses the figure taking shelter from the storm in the corner, watching him
shen jiu wakes up (he doesn't expect to), warm while he hears the wind whistle. he's still in that temple from earlier, but it's considerably... cozier. a small fire warms the inside and his clothes aren't as damp against his cold skin. his fever's broken, too—he doesn't know how long it's been, but he's glad he didn't die: never realized that he wanted to live until he was close to forfeiting his right to
here is where he meets his accidental saviour: xie lian stood over a slowly bubbling pot of stew that smells heavenly to shen jiu—he'd eat just about anything at this point, starved
his immediate distrust of xie lian stops him from being truly excited about his appearance
their relationship is veryyy shaky at the very beginning: shen jiu refuses to trust him and xie lian refuses to abandon this strange child he found on the verge of death
(there's a strange sort of bond built up when you nurse someone back to life, dragging them away from the brink of death and xie lian isn't interested, but he's curious about this kid who stumbled into his temple at the dead of night on a midnight in winter)
shen jiu's torn between distrust and this desire for company he didn't know he possessed; after being alone with no one but the qiu household [before he went on his massacre] he didn't realized how much he wanted to share space with someone who wasn't actively hurting him until he was afforded the opportunity to experience non-violent company with xie lian
his distrust slowly declines when he finds out that xie lian is a cultivator. despite being arguably too old to learn cultivation to the fullest extent he could have if he started a few years earlier, he still desperately wants to learn
xie lian, perceptive as ever, slowly starts teaching him bits and pieces of the basics, teaches him to meditate, takes care to keep his distance when it looks like shen jiu's getting overwhelmed
shen jiu can't help but get attached. he hates it
shen jiu decides to test xie lian before resigning himself to this
he was snappy, impatient, and argued with xie lian, when he came over, one day, waiting for some form of punishment to come, bristling like a spooked cat.
nothing came of his experiment but a slight frown from xie lian, which made shen jiu feel almost bad—xie lian almost reminded him of qi-ge, which made him feel doubly bad because he desperately wants to find him
shen jiu came to xie lian the next day with a pastry [that he stole] as an apology. and a request:
"teach me how to cultivate so i can be a disciple at the cang qiong sect"
xie lian agrees easily enough: he's been around shen jiu to see that despite the late start, he has potential to be great [especially untouched by wu yanzi and his twisted form of cultivation]
shen jiu throws himself into his studies, working himself to the bone
xie lian is concerned by this and after trying to soften the load of his work doesn't make shen jiu slow down, he becomes stern: warns him against trying to chase too much frivolously
this leads to a breakdown of sorts—where shen jiu gets angry, dismissive, before becoming upset. the average emotional depth of a teenager but, like, 4 times worse because of the circumstances
xie lian coaxes the story out of shen jiu here; qi-ge [the first time he's mentioned aloud by name], the qiu household [only the barest of details. shen jiu refuses to dwell], and the night shen jiu made qi-ge leave, as well as qi-ge's promise to come back
shen jiu finishes by telling xie lian he needs to make it back to qi-ge, needs to see if he's still alive, he's been selfish for sticking around as long
shen jiu tells xie lian that he needs to figure out as much as he can, as fast as he can, so he can leave and make his way to cang qiong mountain with some sort of base knowledge to make it in. and that he's not sorry for pushing himself because he doesn't have time
xie lian is quiet for a while
puts a comforting hand on shen jiu's shoulder and tells him he understands; he knows someone who would do anything to make it back to the one they loved, understands the pain that comes when time and distance separates the two
however, xie lian tells him, he can't let shen jiu push himself. he'll only stunt his progress by hurting himself rather than speed things up
shen jiu is ready to argue again before xie lian offers to make the trip with him
shen jiu doesn't believe it at first—who would bother with helping him for this long if they weren't getting anything out of it? he already found this hard to believe, let alone the fact that xie lian would drop everything to travel with him for weeks on end
xie lian doesn't shake in his resolve, though. shen jiu figures out he's being serious and wants to argue, but he's just—relieved
so many people have stood as roadblocks on his path back to qi-ge; xie lian might be the first person actively trying to help them
it almost reignites hope in him; someone other than him believes in them. someone other than shen jiu thinks they'll make it back to each other and succeed in reuniting. xie lian's faith in him is like a gust of wind beneath his wings
he agrees to their road trip
[xie lian makes sure to tell his beloved he'll be away for a while]
[shen jiu doesn't notice that xie lian buys steamed buns off the same stranger in nearly every town they stop by for a night of rest in the following few weeks]
[xie lian notices, years later, when shen qingqiu doesn't recognize him upon their first meeting in decades. shen yuan doesn't know xie lian, but xie lian knows this isn't shen jiu, anymore]
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Canaan House Lab Notes
Second House Lab
Trial
Transference/Winnowing
Key
Claimed by the Ninth through completion of the trial.
Lab
Includes a laboratory , a training floor, guns, and a comfy sitting area with two beds, "separated only by a nightstand". Even so Gideon calls it "more lab than living space".
Theorem
"Transference" according to Harrow is "the utilisation of a living soul". Not quite reading someone's mind, but "borrowing perceptions". I believe it's necessary for step two of the Eightfold Word: "analyse [the soul]- understand its structure, its shape".
Third House Lab
Trial
Unclear
Key
Claimed by the Sixth
Lab
Presumably similar to Ianthe's room on the Mithraeum
Theorem
All things considered, probably "step six: consume the flesh".
Fourth House Lab
Trial
Unclear
Key
claimed by the Sixth
Lab
Wish we knew enough about Ulysses and Titania to jump to conclusions on what was inside.
Theorem
?
Fifth House Lab
Trial
Unclear
Key
claimed by the Sixth
Lab
WHAT kind of room did Alfred and Augustine have? Is it similar to his room on the Mithraeum, i.e. classy, elegant, and full of books and 'ancient' artefacts?
Theorem
?
Sixth House Lab
Trial
Psychometric; the molar leading to one of the skeleton servitors.
Key
Completed by Cytherea, some time before the Avulsion trial. Key later given to Silas Octakiseron; copy made by Palamedes Sextus and Harrowhark Nonagesimus.
Lab
Looks like "an open-plan bomb wreck... as though somebody had left the place in a hurry or simply been an unbelievable slob". (I'll leave it to you whether you think that's likely for Cassie and Nigella.) Tools, papers, a chin-up bar, and sleeping bags; no beds.
Theorem
Theorem appears to be related to Teacher and the skeletons, and the necessity of maintaining an energy source to do necromancy. I believe it's step one of the Eightfold Word: "preserve the soul, with intellect and memory intact" - since that's exactly what makes a "hideous corpses" so special.
Seventh House Lab
Trial
Unclear.
Key
Claimed by trial by the Fifth, and killed over it. Key hidden in Abigail, where Cytherea presumably had access to it; later retrieved by the third House.
Lab
Sparsely furnished, but lovingly decorated and painted. Rolled-up mattresses and embroidered quilts.
Theorem
According to Ianthe, the theorem corresponds to step four of the lyctoral process: "fix [the soul] in place so it can't deteriorate".
I would like to note here that I have no idea when the message was left on the wall. I don't think Cytherea would have had time for it before the Fifth were found... did she take the key out and put it back in at some point?
Eighth House Lab
Trial
Avulsion
Key
Completed by the Ninth, key passed on as per the agreement to Cytherea. Key passed on later to Silas Octakiseron, "for safekeeping".
Lab
Lab remains undescribed. But it's not like I'm salty or anything.
Theorem
Relatively safe to assume that it's "Step Three, remove and absorb [the soul]: take it into yourself without consuming it in the process."
Almost confirmed by Ianthe to be the final step, "hook up the cables and get the power flowing." (thanks, @fire-swift!)
Ninth House Lab
Trial
Unclear - but we can probably assume it's related to bones, so it's utterly fascinating to me that Silas even decided to attempt it.
Key
Claimed by the Eighth.
Lab
Never once seen by anyone, because Silas is an intellectual cretin and a dog in a manger.
Theorem
Could it be related to Harrow's conception or the tomb somehow?
--
For the record: I'm relatively certain of the theorems and how they correspond to the Eighthfold Word, but we only know the one Ianthe mentions for sure.
The parts I haven's assigned:
"Step five, incorporate it: find a way to make the soul part of yourself without being overwhelmed."
"Step seven is reconstruction - making spirit and flesh work together the way they used to, in the new body."
"Step Three, remove and absorb [the soul]: take it into yourself without consuming it in the process."
Which would have to go to the Fourth, the Fifth, or the Ninth respectively. Is Incorporation how Abigail manages to deal with the "savage" dead? Is Reconstruction how the Reverend Parents managed to modify an ovum on the chromosomal level? Does "absorption" refer to Isaac's blue-green sodium explosion?
Did John have his own lab, somewhere in there?
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