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laniemae · 6 months

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Why I believe John/Orekoto was lying about his motive in Neoplasm

Ok so double just came out and I have a lot of thoughts. When a new MV comes out I usually wait a while until I can make a proper analysis but this one is mostly going to focus on neoplasm. And in particular one thing me and my friend found particularly suspicious about John’s (Orekoto’s) testimony when it comes to the murder(s).

When Es questioned John about their murder, he responded very clearly with “Yeah it was me, I killed them off”. And after that Es questioned why he did it, only to say that he did it only because they were annoying him and it was whoever was walking by. Es goes quiet at this which might imply to me some sort of suspicion on his testimony. John goes on to say that he can’t remember how many he killed because he was just born back then and his memory is kinda fuzzy.

Instantly this set off a ton of red flags for me, it just doesn’t make any sense when you think about it. Earlier on when John fronted he started acting all violent and threatened to beat up Es, who just calmly laughed it off. Es seemed to be quickly notice something was off, as their calm demeanour enacted an also suspiciously calm demeanour from John. Es then said it was strange because they assumed him to be a monster. After hearing that John instantly went back into that violent persona that they were showing as soon as they fronted.

This scene is very telling to me. John is not violent, or evil, heartless or anything like that. He’s only acting that way to potentially come out less. And be even straight up says “if I had stayed a monster… maybe that would’ve been better.” Then instantly takes back what he said by just going “…what?”

From this it’s very clear, like I said, that John isn’t evil. But then that takes what he said about his murders into question. That he only did it because he just got annoyed and killed random passers. This clearly isn’t true when you take into account the whole interaction with Es, because otherwise he would’ve attempted to kill Es the whole time and not go docile when they weren’t acting scared.

I believe that John is trying to dip back into his monster persona he made for himself here. He probably figured out that acting evil all the time wouldn’t work, and when questioned on such a sensitive topic such as the murder he just went with the option that made him the least sympathetic, and Mikoto more sympathetic in order to lower his stress levels by not telling the full truth.

As for who committed the murder/s, I’m still pretty unsure. In double it looks like both sides are perpetrators. But this also takes into account, what about those scenes of John killing the mannequins? It seems like it matches up enough to what he said in the voice drama but I don’t think that’s the smiling gun.

Milgram is an extremely complex series, and in no way should the easiest option be assumed as the right one. Unreliable narrators are a big thing in the series, and we should look at a character’s MV with how they view themselves in mind. For example, Kazui thinks himself as a monster and this is especially prevalent in Cat, where if you’d take it at first glance you might assume that he’s evil or whatever, just as he views himself.

The same should apply to John as well. He wants to believe he’s a monster in order to protect Mikoto from more mental stress about his murder, and might end up with him fronting less. This likely subconsciously played itself into double and even MeMe, where John portrays himself as evil as that’s what he wants people to view him as.

I feel like when discussing who’s the murder and if John is evil, we should definitely take this into account otherwise our future opinions will be biased.

Ok so someone just mentioned the fact that he had a baseball bat in the first place means it was likely a premeditated murder. So him killing people just because they annoyed him would be a really weird thing to say because that would’ve been an impulsive murder, and he had a weapon at the time.

#milgram #mikoto kayano #Milgram theory #yes I am calling him john I think it’s hilarious and fitting for a little goober #This was basically a theory me and my friend came up with when we were watching neoplasm together #I could’ve gone into more depth with this but I feel like this summarises what I want to say good enough #From the start I felt like it was very clear he was lying about killing those people because they annoyed him #Im surprised so many people took that at face value #Remember prisoners can lie in their voice dramas and their view of themselves can affect the mvs #People should really take this into account otherwise it’d probably prompt even more “john/orekoto is evil” bs again #And I don’t know how to fit this in but I’m still thinking alot how #In the first trial voice trailer mikoto says “my (boku) life it wasn’t supposed to be this way…”#In the glitched out segment which is heavily implied to be when/around the prisoners committed their murders #LanieMae’s theories

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linagram · 5 months

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[ 𝚑𝚒𝚖𝚞𝚛𝚊 𝚛𝚎𝚒𝚗𝚊'𝚜 𝚝𝟸 𝚟𝚘𝚒𝚌𝚎 𝚍𝚛𝚊𝚖𝚊 ] 𝚜𝚒𝚗𝚗𝚎𝚛 𝚊𝚗𝚍 𝚑𝚎𝚛 𝚜𝚊𝚟𝚒𝚘𝚛

and with this, we're finally done with all the second trial's mvs and vds! woooo! this trial surely was. something.

after reina's vd, there's gonna be two post-t2 vds (similar to this trial having two pre-t2 vds), the first one will be jackalope explaining some stuff (and miki finally getting to meet him) and the third guard's full name reveal and the second one will be about everyone's second trial verdicts.

Warnings for Reina's VD: None

Warnings for Reina's MV: None

(sounds of footsteps)

Miki: "It's Himura-san's turn already.."

Miki: "This trial has been so stressful and we also have to judge everyone later.."

Miki: "Wait-"

(footsteps stop)

Miki: ".. Will Eiji-san even be able to judge someone this time?"

Miki: ".. I don't think he will. No, actually, it would be better for his health if he didn't participate in the trial this time."

Miki: "But if he can't vote, then-"

Miki: ...

Miki: .. Hehe..

Miki: W-wait, why am I-

Miki: Why am I.. laughing?

Miki: I should feel sorry for him. I should hope that he gets better.

Miki: .. What has this place done to me?

Miki: Wait, is that-

(sounds of other person's footsteps)

Miki: Huh?..

Miki: W-who's there?!

Miki: "Is it one of the prisoners?.."

???: Calm down, calm down!

???: Here, do you recognize me now?

Miki: .. Are you..

Miki: Hiyuu-san?

Hiyuu: Yeah, that's me.

Hiyuu: Sorry for scaring you like that, haha.

Hiyuu: Well, at least now we finally get to meet each other in person!

Hiyuu: Ah, right, I should probably take this off..

Miki: What-

(sounds of Hiyuu taking his mask off)

Hiyuu: Here we go.

Hiyuu: Wow, breathing sure feels easier now.

Miki: ...

Hiyuu: Hm? Is there something wrong with my face?

Hiyuu: Hold on, let me-

Hiyuu: .. Ahaha, I still have some ice cream left on my face..

Hiyuu: I should wipe it off..

Hiyuu: Wait, do I even have anything to wipe it off with-

(sounds of Hiyuu talking to himself in the background)

Miki: "CUTE CUTE CUTE CUTE CUTE CUTE CUTE CUTE CUTE-"

Hiyuu: Is everything okay, Miki-san?

Miki: I'M FINE!

Miki: .. Oh my god, sorry, that was so loud, I'm sorry, I'm so sorry-

Hiyuu: Don't worry, I just wanted to make sure you're alright, haha.

Hiyuu: I want to help you with interrogating the tenth prisoner, is that okay with you?

Miki: Y-yes, sure! Interrogations can be.. very tiring..

Miki: Ah, but only if you're okay with that-

Miki: H-huh?

(a sound of Hiyuu putting his hand on Miki's head)

Hiyuu: I left my room exactly because I wanted to help you. So of course I'm okay with that.

Miki: O-oh..

Miki: Wait, didn't you say that you can't leave your room?

Hiyuu: Ah, about that..

Hiyuu: That rabbit thing told me I can't leave my room, so I assumed that the door was locked, but when I tried to open it, I didn't have any trouble with it.

Hiyuu: So, uh, I guess he was just messing with me, haha..

Hiyuu: Or maybe I was supposed to interpret his words differently..

Miki: .. Rabbit thing?

Hiyuu: Y-you didn't meet him yet?..

Miki: N-no??

Hiyuu: .. Now I feel awkward.

Hiyuu: Okay, let's go interrogate the tenth prisoner now, haha!~..

Miki: "Oh no, is he going to turn out to be a weird guy too.."

Miki: "But he's still cute.."

Miki: .. You remind me of someone, to be honest.

Hiyuu: Hm? What did you say?

Miki: N-nothing!

Miki: "I'm probably just ovethinking it.. It must be a coincidence.."

Miki: "But they look and act so.. similar.."

Miki: Wait, Hiyuu-san, do you even know how to interrogate prisoners?

Hiyuu: I have watched recordings of your interrogations, so yeah, I know some stuff.

Miki: W-we were being recorded?..

Hiyuu: Of course you were.

Hiyuu: Now, are you ready for the final interrogation? We're already here.

Miki: ...

Miki: *nods*

Hiyuu: Great. Excited to work with you, partner~

(the door opens)

Reina: Ah, there you are-

Reina: Wait, what?

Miki: U-um, Himura-san, Eiji-san had to be replaced, I mean, not exactly replaced, but-

Hiyuu: Hello there. You're Reina-san, right?

Reina: .. (to Miki) I'm assuming you know what's going on here.

Miki: .. I know that better than anyone.

Reina: So, it's my turn now, huh?

Reina: Let's go then, yay..

Miki: *sits down* You don't really sound that enthusiastic, you know?

Reina: Really? Sorry. I got tired of waiting for you, haha..

Miki: .. What happened to you, Himura-san?

Reina: You have to be more specific here, Guard 002-san.

Miki: .. You used to call me "Miki-chan" before.

Reina: Well, I thought we were friends, Guard 002-san. I thought we were gonna get along.

Reina: But I was wrong.

Hiyuu: .. Did something happen between you two?

Miki: I-I don't think so?

Miki: Himura-san, did I do something wrong? If so, please tell me-

Reina: Oh, I'm gonna tell you.

Reina: Innocent verdict, baby! Woooo!

Reina: *laughs*

Reina: *takes a breath*

Reina: What the hell, Miki-chan. What, do you want me to sing a whole villain song for you or something-

Reina: Oh, wait, you have my video for that.

Reina: Then why was I still forgiven, huh?

Miki: Because..

Miki: Um..

Hiyuu: Because the guards had their own reasons for that. And who exactly are you to question their judgement?

Miki: H-huh?

Reina: Wow, you're a smart guy, aren't you?

Reina: Well, I'm going to start sounding real smart right now too.

Reina: ...

Reina: (her voice sounds more emotionless now) Guard 002-san, what did I tell you last time?

Miki: Y-you mean the serial killer part?

Reina: Exactly. The "serial killer part".

Reina: Now, what are you supposed to do with serial killers?

Miki: .. P-punish-

Reina: That's right. Punish them.

Reina: But I still wasn't punished.

Reina: Would you say that it was a good decision? A wise one? A morally correct one?

Reina: And I have a lot of questions about the guilty prisoners too.

(sounds of Reina standing up and walking around)

Reina: Shun, who is now this close to just breaking Kei and turning him into a mindless puppet.. was voted innocent.

Reina: Akio, who always said that his crime wasn't his fault, obviously trying to shift the blame, but who still mostly was just a nerdy 16 year old obsessed with attention, was voted guilty and now he looks like he can die at any second.

Miki: W-we had our-

Reina: Eiko, who feels no remorse for her crime at all and can easily tell anyone all the details if they just ask, was voted innocent.

Miki: But we-

Reina: And just a reminder, you don't know ANYTHING about Kei's murder, but you still voted him guilty-

Miki: WE HAD OUR REASONS, NOW SIT DOWN!

Reina: ...

Reina: *sits down*

Hiyuu: I don't think you understand how this whole system works, Reina-san.

Reina: Well, do you understand it then?

Hiyuu: Kind of.

Hiyuu: I was told that we are allowed to judge prisoners based on.. literally anything.

Hiyuu: So if you thought that our decisions have to be nothing but morally correct.. Sorry to disappoint you.

Reina: .. "Literally anything"?

Hiyuu: Yeah. It's possible that someone was forgiven just because one or both guards find them cute or attractive.

Reina: ...

Reina: Haha..

Reina: .. I don't have any energy left for all of this.

Reina: ...

Miki: .. A-are you okay, Himura-san-

Reina: So, I don't sound that enthusiastic anymore, Guard 002-san?

Reina: Well, as you can see, I'm not exactly satisfied with my verdict.

Reina: And I'm gonna be honest, I'm getting tired of the whole "most dangerous prisoner" act myself and I can see that it's not convincing enough.

Reina: So yeah, the show's over.

Hiyuu: Reina-san, do you want to be punished that badly?

Reina: Oh, I wanted it more than anything.

Reina: If I could, I would've just asked you to execute me even before the second trial starts.

Reina: But now..

Reina: It's a bit more complicated than that.

Reina: *laughs* But wow, I can't believe this. We're really letting someone like you judge us.

Reina: What, are you gonna vote me guilty now? Are you gonna vote me guilty because I'm not a "I'm the cutest serial killer ever!" type of girl anymore?

Reina: And I really thought you're going to still like me even after I show you my real self! You're breaking my heart, Miki-chan.

Hiyuu: When you say "It's more complicated than that"..

Hiyuu: What do you mean by that?

Reina: Oh, right. What I mean by that is..

Reina: I can't let you two..

Reina: Or three?

Reina: Anyway, I can't let you all judge me and the other prisoners.

Reina: I already know what I deserve and what my verdict should be like. Who are you to tell me what to do and who I am?

Miki: W-well, um, we're the guards-

Hiyuu: Hold on, Miki-san.

Hiyuu: Okay, but what will you even do to stop us?

Reina: You know what's really bothering me about this whole situation?

Reina: .. You all aren't even trying to figure out what's going on.

Reina: How can you accept your new reality so easily?

Reina: Or is it because you hated your old reality so much that you were okay with anything?

Miki: ...

Miki: .. A-and what if we did?

Miki: I had my worries about this place. Of course I was afraid at first.

Miki: But now.. It feels like home.

Hiyuu: I don't really hate this place either.

Reina: .. I feel sorry for both of you.

Reina: But fine, whatever, I'm not going to share anything with you then.

Miki: What do you mean by "anything"?

Reina: .. I have some theories about this place.

Reina: And, um..

Reina: How it works.

Miki: !

Reina: But I doubt that you two are interested, so-

Hiyuu: No, no, I'm curious. Come on, share with us.

Miki: But we don't have much time-

Reina: Well, let's see..

Miki: "Wait, didn't she just say she's not gonna tell us anything?"

Reina: .. So, we have.. what, three guards now?

Reina: (to Hiyuu) Hey, can you tell me where have you been all this time? Why didn't we get to meet you sooner?

Hiyuu: .. I was asleep.

Reina: And when did you wake up?

Hiyuu: I think it was shortly after the first trial's verdicts were announced? But why?

Reina: .. Three guilty prisoners.

Miki: Huh?

Reina: There was only three guilty prisoners. Guard 001-san was the one who wanted to vote everyone guilty.

Reina: (to Hiyuu) And you woke up after Guard 001-san had lost that round.

Reina: .. They're just going to keep switching you all until they get bored.

Miki: Who? Who are you talking about??

Reina: No idea.

Reina: I don't even know how many guards they actually have.

Reina: .. I don't even know how many prisoners we actually have.

Miki: .. W-what does that mean, Himura-san?

Reina: Oh, I don't know.

Reina: Maybe something like..

Reina: .. One of us isn't actually a prisoner?

Miki: Wh-

Reina: Anyway, the clock is ticking, right?

Reina: So, wanna talk about my crime?

Hiyuu: That was a sudden change of topic..

Miki: But Himura-san-

Hiyuu: Miki-san, please, let's talk about Reina-san's crime now.

Hiyuu: .. If we don't, I'm afraid I will end up wasting all my energy soon and I don't want that. I want to be useful to you.

Miki: .. Himura-san, do you have anything to say about your murder?

Reina: I guess I do.

Reina: But I wanna ask, what did you learn about it from my video?

Miki: .. I guess you really were a criminal in a way, but..

Miki: .. We never saw you actually kill anyone.

Reina: .. Haha.

Hiyuu: What's so funny, Reina-san?

Reina: So you haven't seen that part either.. Interesting.

Reina: Hey, but you saw, like, my victim or something?

Miki: .. I guess we did.

Miki: But we didn't see all the details, so we don't know what your victim actually looked like.

Reina: I see..

Reina: He was completely covered in blood, of course, you wouldn't be able to see it, haha..

Miki: .. You were laughing in your video too, Himura-san.

Reina: Really?

Miki: And crying. Both at the same time.

Reina: ...

Reina: Well, how else was I supposed to react after I saw my little brother's corpse?

Reina: H-he came there because of me too, haha.. He always was such an idiot..

Miki: !

Miki: LITTLE BROTHER?!

(bell rings, machinery sounds)

Miki: Himura-san, I'm begging you, please, tell us more!

Hiyuu: Miki-san, time's up. Let's calm down and extract the video-

Miki: BE A GOOD PARTNER, HIYUU-SAN, AND SHUT UP FOR A SECOND!

Miki: .. Your victim was your little brother, Himura-san?

Reina: Haha, what, now you're going to vote me guilty this time?

Reina: You don't want to save me anymore?

Miki: ...

Miki: *starts crying*

Hiyuu: Miki-san, please, can you take a deep breath for me? Here, again, let's calm down..

Hiyuu: You're shaking.. Let's talk about it later, when we're done with this.

Hiyuu: I already have all the information we need. It was me who interrogated everyone yesterday, remember?

Hiyuu: Also, we're going to watch the video together, so we'll see everything that we have to know-

Miki: .. Himura-san, what are you doing?

Miki: HIMURA-SAN?!

(sounds of Reina throwing something and that thing falling on the floor)

Reina: Ugh, didn't work..

Reina: Should've seen this coming.

Hiyuu: .. Reina-san, did you just try to break the video extracting machine?

Reina: Yeah, kinda. More like wanted to see if that thing can even be broken.

Miki: .. You tried to break it with your shoe.

Reina: Yeah. I'm an idiot, just like my brother, haha.

Miki: ...

(sounds of Miki's slow footsteps)

Hiyuu: Miki-san, are you sure you can do this? If you need any help-

Miki: I can. Thank you.

Reina: Well, what's it gonna be this time, everyone's savior?

Miki: .. Prisoner 010, Reina, please, sing your sins.

42% ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓░░░░░░░░░░░░ 100%

[MV Description]

The video starts with little Reina (most likely ten years old), sitting in her room and talking to her toys. Everything is black and white and it looks like an old silent movie. We can't hear Reina's voice, we can only hear the music and how it's slowly becoming more and more repetitive. Reina looks happy at first, but then she starts getting tired and when the music becomes almost unbearable to listen to, she throws all the toys off her bed.

It turns out that it really was a scene from a movie and now someone is interviewing little Reina and she's still smiling and overall looks like a very happy child.

"Look at me, the little star of the show

Aren't you proud of me? Look at me! I'm such a good girl!

Except I don't feel anything at all

I'm not even proud of myself"

The scene changes and now she's older, she's still being interviewed, but now she looks and acts more like a "problem child": she doesn't want to be there and she makes sure everyone knows it and her parents find her embarrassing.

"Oh no, it looks like your little star has gone wild

She's rude, she's violent, she's going crazy

Except she doesn't feel anything at all

She's not even proud of herself"

Now we can see Reina and her parents going to see her new movie together and when it starts, it has even darker colors than the first one.

"I keep achieving goals, I keep making accomplishments

But this story isn't going anywhere

Will my character ever change for the better?

No motivation, no backstory, no reason for me to grow"

Reina just sits there with her parents and watches her character kill so many people on screen without showing any signs of regret, but even though Reina looks bored at first, when you look closer, you can see that she's actually.. uncomfortable with that kind of role.

"Is this who I am? Is this who I'm supposed to be?

The villain of this story was me all along

At least that's what I thought

But it looks like you see me in a different way"

Her parents eventually leave without even watching the full movie, meanwhile Reina stays and sees her character finding a dead body that we can't see clearly, but this is the first time when her character actually looks scared. Reina stands up from her chair, looks like she doesn't remember making that face in that scene. Actually, she's not sure if this movie even had a scene like that, she doesn't remember filming it.

Reina continues watching the movie and she can see how her character keeps getting more and more emotional and how she yells at one of her "partners in crime" and throws her weapon on the ground. Reina turns around to see all people in the cinema enjoying the movie a lot more now. It looks like they really like the development this character is getting.

"Ah, so that's how it is

Am I a hero in your eyes now?

Have you forgiven me already?

You don't even know anything about me, how can you say those words so easily?"

Reina decides to leave, but before she does that, her character looks right at her and nods. Reina nods back with anger and hatred in her eyes and right when she leaves and closes the door behind her, everything starts to burn.

The whole cinema is on fire now. Her character sees everyone running and screaming and smiles while trying to hide the dead body from earlier, meanwhile Reina sits on a nearby bench and watches the cinema burn to the ground.

"So, who will tell this story: me or you?

Will you rewrite everything, will you decide how it ends?

I'm not against that, I just want you to know

You won't be able to forgive me until I forgive myself"

She looks relieved and she sighs while looking at the night sky.

#a note about the honorifics: since reina isn't putting on an act anymore she just calls everyone by their first names without -kun or -chan #minus miki and eiji (and hiyuu in the future) but she uses them in kind of.. mocking way maybe?#listen i didn't even try to make this vd so miki x reina (mikirei?? reimiki??) but here we are #no but they have potential. i can see it i can see it #something something both of us don't know how to cope with our guilt and we blame ourselves for what happened to our little brothers #and both of us have different coping mechanisms and one of us is trying to take all the blame and portray herself as the villain #while the other one is trying to save everyone but uses questionable methods and tries to distract herself from her own feelings of guilt #and also one of us is very >:3 (at least on the outside) while the other one is very >///< (again at least on the outside)#yeah reina's mv is kinda short but i also think it fits? i imagine her video actually being the shortest one (like double)#and after all she DID try to break the machine :)#🎤 voice dramas! 🎤#🌼guard 002: andou miki 🌼#🎭prisoner 010: himura reina🎭#milgram #milgram oc #ocgram #milgram project #(also a note: one of the reasons why there's also a fire in reina's mv is because i had this idea in my head that if all mvs were watched-#in order akio's mv also starts with a fire so it's like. you get it. it'd be like a loop. it'd be fun)

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