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imperiuswrecked · 9 months

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Can you please talk about why you think Namor has BPD? (At least I think you said that you believed Namor had BPD, it may have been another condition.)

I've spoken about Namor + Mental Health Issues many times in the past, but I can put it all in this post to make it an easier read rather than going through my older posts. I do state that I believe Namor has BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) but I will also go over other stuff that have come up in the comics.

General Disclaimer: I'm not a mental health professional, and comics are not good at accurate representation of mental health disorders, and this meta is just my thoughts on the matter of Namor's personality, and mental health issues (MHI). Also content warnings for mentions of mental health issues, suicide, genocide, and rape.

I think the Mental Health Issue that gets discussed the most is Bryne's 90s Namor run where he claims that Namor has Bipolar Disorder. Forgive my long winded response but let me explain the situation behind it and why I personally believe this is a terrible way to use MHI in comics, but of course if people feel represented by a superhero/anti-hero who has the same issues as them then that's good for them and I'm personally not out here to argue with anyone about MHI representation in comics.

Bipolar Disorder

It's the 90s, Namor has been bouncing around books all throughout the 80s after having his 60-70s series canceled, the character has been married twice and widowed twice (Dorma - 1st Wife, Marrina - 2nd wife) he's had one 4 issue mini series and a limited 12 issue series, Saga of the Sub-Mariner, before having his own solo title again; Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) and a new look was needed for the Prince of the Seas, so Terry Kavanagh & John Bryne decide to play up the 90s Business Man angle, and Namor is turned into a Corporate Eco Warrior, this time deciding to fight those who harm the oceans and its creatures in the board room rather than the seas. Saga of the Sub-Mariner (1988) sets up Namor for the 90s, with a recap of all the character's history but anyone reading Namor knows that Namor isn't a superhero like Captain America or Superman, who lean towards a lawful good character, instead he's had time spent as a villain and hero, as Marvel puts it "Namor was the first hero-villain" and is the Archetype Anti-Hero and this is very important and I stress this very hard that because of Namor's Anti-Hero characterization it would be impossible to make him a lawful good hero like Captain America without losing important parts of the character. Namor isn't an american or surface world hero, so how does he now work in the surface world? How does a writer take a morally gray character like Namor and make him the hero of his own title?

You would think perhaps they might lean into WHY Namor is angry all the time, WHY Namor hates Americans and other surface dwellers, WHY would he constantly be fighting against them. You would think a good writer would love to play around with plots of morality, human greed and the willful destruction of the earth's oceans with a character whose upbringing/morals don't match the general typical hero type, and the tropes of a vengeful entity seeking justice.

But that would be asking too much of writers.

Instead Bryne blames all of Namor's past misdeeds on "he's crazy" and thus begins my most hated, over used, writing trope for Namor which I've dubbed "The Mad (as in crazy) Sea King Trope" you see this pop up many times in Namor's comics. So now whenever Namor is evil or doesn't fall in line with the surface heroes thinking/wanting to do things, its not because Namor has some actual grievance with the surface world, no he's just got a chemical imbalance in his brain and he needs to take a dip in the ocean or a walk on land.

Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #1

"And my studies have led me to the conclusion that your occasional periods of almost homicidal rage are directly the results of your mingled bloodlines. --- Too long underwater and you begin to suffer from oxygen starvation. Too long on the surface and the reverse occurs. In both cases the result is a kind of Intoxication. You become irrational... insane!"

And with this comic Bryne has irrevocably hurt Namor's character forever. The damage this comic has done will never be undone nor will Namor's character ever have a chance to really dive into Why he's so Angry at the world without Marvel coming back around to this comic. Namor was the original "Angry Young Man" of comics, because Everett said he put some of himself, his own youth, his anger, into Namor's character. If I come across that statement/interview again I will definitely post about it, I just feel that this post is already too long and don't want to sidetrack getting deeper into Namor's design/character.

Namor's extreme hostility and anger is not a character flaw, its by design that he harbors such great resentment towards the world his father came from.

"The Original "Angry Young Man" - The Sub-Mariner" art by Bill Everett

Namor isn't angry because he's crazy, he's angry because severe injustice has been done to his people and home and he wants to avenge that. Everything about Namor is about him trying to navigate two worlds and the anger he feels at the harm one side has done to the other. Namor means "Avenging Son" for a reason.

However with this Bipolar explanation Bryne has neatly swept up all of Namor's complicated emotions and issues with his human half and the human world into a tidy pile and then tossed it out.

I would rather Namor be held accountable for his actions than for them to be forgiven (and why should he CARE about human forgiveness anyways???). I would rather Namor hold a mirror up to the human world and call out their sins which is why he does what he did in the past rather than this half assed "oh, its not really his fault, so its all ok now" writing. This is why I think Bryne's Bipolar Namor hurts the character because it takes away any agency or consequences for the main theme of the character and his world. And it's boring. It's so utterly boring that I want to cry. Perhaps because I love complicated plots, any explanation that absolves a character without putting the work in makes me dislike that writing. Bryne was trying to redeem Namor and in my strongest and unhumble opinion, Namor does not need redemption. Nor should Namor care about human laws or seek to be absolved by subjecting himself to their rulings.

He's not the hero for surface dwellers, he's the hero for atlanteans, and if people actually took the time to see things from Namor's point of view instead of trying to shove the character into the traditional hero mold then they could understand why Namor attacked the surface world.

Trial of the Sub-Mariner - Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #13

"But the fact remains, Namor has never been brought fully to account for many of early crimes against humanity-- including declarations of war and the actual invasion of New York!" "Reed! You sound as though you think Namor should be found guilty of the charges! Yet we know now many of his rages against the world were caused by a blood imbalance due to his mixed racial heritage."

Bryne resolves Namor's past actions by writing that he is guilty of his crimes but by way of insanity in a throwaway speech bubble that if people were less of an intense reader might miss and forget instantly but I'm too much of an obsessive reader, lol. So Namor has to serve a 100 years of probation (again this isn't brought up ever again in any future issues, he literally never does his probation) monitored by Captain America who is his parole officer, Steve plays the part of Jiminy Cricket to keep him on the path of good and Namor is free to be the Good Guy who doesn't hate America/Surface Dwellers. This also leads into another grievance I have with Marvel writers who use Steve as the Moral Right to Namor's Immoral Wrong, but again that's a post for another day.

Imo Byrne is a terrible writer. I won't say I hate the 90s run because there are parts of it I greatly enjoy, but I do criticize how badly this effects Namor's character to this day. It makes no sense logically nor is this how Bipolar disorder works.

Next is Zdarsky's writing.

Where do I begin. I first want to point out that I don't know how Zdarsky would have written Namor if he hadn't been told "No" to a Namor solo series which prompted him to change his story to include Steve and the Invaders but going by the plot of Invaders (2019) I am very glad that this wasn't a solo Namor series. If you haven't read that series the main summary is Namor gets his mind messed with a lot, by Professor Xavier, by the Serpent Crown, by a mental entity taking the distorted form of his old friend, Machan. Which prompts Namor to decide to make all surface dwellers into water dwellers and the Invaders try to stop him. So basically Zdarsky tries to stay true to the previous writing of Bryne's Bipolar disorder but also throws in way too much interference. In the comics it's almost a joke just how many times Namor is possessed or driven mad or insane or has amnesia and it happens once again this series. While it was interesting to see someone attempt to fill in the blank Amnesiac years (the time period between Namor disappearing from Atlantis after the War until the time Johnny Storm finds Namor keeps getting longer as the years go by, what used to be maybe 6 years of an Amnesiac period has now become decades), I just feel that adding more brain trauma and possession for a plot that is ultimately forgotten by now didn't help Namor's character or actually explore his psyche more.

That's not to say I hated it completely, I'm just a very critical reader, and there are very good moments that do explore Namor's psyche like when Professor X is in Namor's mind, and Namor says "I cannot be fixed. There is murder in my heart Charles." Invaders (2019) #4

Or Namor showing Steve how he feels as a super human among humans in issue 1. "Do you have any idea what this is like for me? Look how weak you all are! I could crush this man's head like you would crack open an egg! I run around on your battlefields trying to -- to protect bags of water from being punctured by other bags of water!"

In the end this series employs the same tropes from older comics: - The Mad Sea King (Namor is insane) - Steve is the Moral Right to Namor's Immoral Wrong - Nothing is in character for Namor and Namor's ooc-ness is directly tied to mental interference but Namor is blamed for it as though this is all in character. < this trope also applies to the Phoenix King Namor of the Phoenix Five.

However this series does try somewhat to showcase Namor's PTSD, but more on that later in this post.

So to wrap this up, Namor's bipolar disorder was written as a way to excuse Namor for his shady past and bouts of madness and/or to have a chance to write Namor as Evil or an Antagonist without having to deal with the issues that make up Namor's character or have to blame the surface world for their compliancy in those issues. So you can see why I highly dislike and often ignore the "Namor is bipolar" writing.

Suicidal Thoughts

After the death of Marrina, his second wife, Namor contemplates throwing himself into a swirling whirlpool of perhaps certain death in Marvel Comics Presents (1988) #57

PTSD

While Zdarsky tried to include PTSD as a plot point in Invaders (2019) in my opinion he didn't go far enough into that aspect of Namor's MHI, and instead pivots back to Serpent Crown/Machan possession/Xavier's mind manipulation. Invaders (2019) was so close but ultimately I have to give the real recognition of Namor's PTSD coding/writing to these other comics, especially Marvels Snapshot.

Namor's first real interaction with the surface world comes at the beginning of WWll, at this point Namor is 18 years old, so he's very young for a human and even younger for an Atlantean. As a teenager going off to fight a war in another land he came back with PTSD however in older comics it's more coded than stated.

Marvel Team Up (1997) #8 - Namor finds he cannot breath underwater and manages to make it to safety on a bridge in New York where a frightened human runs away from Namor and into a cop who begins to beat the man. Namor witnessing this has a mental break and believes himself to be back in WWll.

Doctor Strange stops Namor and bring him back for treatment relating to why Namor came to him in the first place and why he can't swim in water but I found this interaction to be very interesting, because this could easily be seen as Namor having a ptsd moment and dealing with the aftermath and not just about Namor's inability to swim underwater and mental burdens.

"It happened again. The Son of Atlantis does not embarrass easily, Doctor. But I foolishly thought you had cured me." "It's not your fault, Namor. I've completed my diagnosis and I've concluded that you are a very sick individual."

Another moment that I also believe is coded PTSD is in Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) Annual 1 - Never Again. This comic deals heavily with Namor's past in WWll, the holocaust, genocide and has many flashbacks.

However it wasn't until Marvels Snapshot: Sub-Mariner (2020) that we finally and truly get our first story that actually dives into the fact that Namor has PTSD and is very much affected by it, they do not call it PTSD instead the terms were "Shell Shock" or "Combat Fatigue" are used because this is set during an era where PTSD was not named/recognized. This story is told from the POV of a character who's loved ones have PTSD. Betty Dean witnesses her brother Lloyd's hands shake, his short temper and his drinking as a way to deal with his ptsd. She talks with her other brother about Llyod.

I really love this story because I feel it's so accurate as to how someone would react towards the situation; Betty doesn't understand why Llyod isn't happy the war is over, and Frank tells her "The war's not over for everyone, Betts." I really cannot recommend this comic enough for how it deals with Namor and Betty dealing with the aftermath of the war and how a partner/loved ones struggle with MHI hurts those around them because they are unable to help them. If I could I would post this whole comic here but again, post long, time to move on.

You see Namor react to triggers such as bullet shot sounds. His hands trembling like her brother's.

It's well known that Namor loathes Nazis, and this was another trigger for him to remember his time in the war.

In the end Betty consoles Namor but cannot get him to accept that he isn't well, and he needs help. So yes, it's canon Namor has PTSD and the Rage he had before the war is only exacerbated further because of his war trauma.

Coping Mechanisms/Addiction

As seen in Snapshot, Namor refuses to seek any therapy which was a headcanon I had a long time ago and was pretty pleased to see how spot on another writer understood Namor's inability to ask for help.

"And I don't ask for help. I'm a King dammit." - Dark Reign: The List - X-Men

So as Llyod turned to drinking/alcohol to cope with his ptsd, throughout the comics Namor is seen drinking after he loses a battle/is unable to deal with loss - Fear Itself: The Deep (and avengers but I hate Aaron's avengers so I'm not posting the Namor going in a drinking binge page here but it's there) and Namor also drinks with T'Challa in Avengers when he believes all hope is lost. (Also not to sidetrack again, but someday I really really want to talk about how Namor seems to really only open up to people like Stephen, and has less trouble asking Stephen for help than others. The Defenders team dynamic is one of my favorite things.)

But another coping mechanism is that Namor has used drugs in the past - Bucky Barnes: Winter Soldier (2014) #1 and I've run out of the allowed images on a single post so I linked my older post where I mention this.

Amnesia/Mental Possession

When Marvel began it's Silver Age, the world exploded into creation with the arrival of the Fantastic Four in 1961. At this point in the real world Namor had been out of print since 1955. Now Kirby & Lee could have just kept going without bringing in any of the older characters from the Golden Age but Stan Lee loved Namor's character very much and wanted to bring him back and what started out as a plot point in Fantastic Four (1961) #4 to explain where Namor had been for a in universe few years turns into a and overused cliché in Namor comics. I have no issues with Fantastic Four (1961) #4 using this plot, in fact its a very good and simple plot, the Pauper that was actually a lost Prince of a fantastical realm.

Namor is the first character to bridge the divide between the old golden age heroes and the new silver age heroes. The way amnesia is used as a tool to help explain and bring in the character is very contained however many times after this writers seem to love to use Amnesiac Namor as a plot device and it's happened many times in his comics. In fact Namor seems to get amnesia from literally anything, wheter it's Master Khan stripping Namor of his memories in Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #25 or Namor becoming an train bound amnesiac hobo over the grief of losing his father in The Sub-Mariner (1968) #47

Meanwhile the other often used trope of Mental Possession comes up many times too, from the Puppet Master controlling Namor in Fantastic Four (1961) #14 and again in Tales to Astonish #78 to explosions leaving Namor an amnesiac and under the control of the hooded man of the secret empire in Tales to Astonish #83, etc. This is of course an incomplete list of times Namor has either lost his memories or is under another's mental control. Note: The Serpent Crown is also another recurring plot where Namor or others are controlled by the crown.

Of course I can't leave out the Phoenix King. Phoenix Five Namor is the one most people know but again most do not acknowledge that he was possessed and under the control of a cosmic entity. Even though there are two comics that talk about how much Namor hated his agency and control being taken away from him by the Phoenix.

AvX: Consequences #4 & Jean Grey (2017) #3

I bring up the instances of Namor's amnesia/mental possession and how it relates to his MHI issues because these sort of plots are present in many comics but most writers really don't take the time to go into how badly these constant bouts of loss of self affect Namor's character, which is understandable in comic book writing world because every writer wants to move onto the next plot and next action scene. However these does bring me to the next topic.

(Also if you want a good amnesia Namor comic then read Tales of the Marvels: Inner Demons, it's told from a side characters pov but it's one of my favorite comics)

Mental Resilience

Now if a writer wants a thing to happen in a comic then it will happen and explanations or consistency be damned. However I do find it very amusing how Namor is constantly shown to have an extremely strong personality and remarked to have very strong mental fortitude that not even Emma Frost can break, is shown to be strong enough to stand against The Purple Man's powers and Namor has had literally everything from tanks to bombs thrown at him and brushed it off, yet sometimes he can't resist whatever flavor of the week villain's mental powers or stop waking up with amnesia every 5 seconds.

So Namor is the most hard headed recurring amnesiac to ever live in comics. I sincerely worry he's got massive amounts of brain damage with how many times this has happened to him.

Mental Instability

I'm sure there are times when Namor just cracks under the massive amounts of constant trauma and pressure but comics don't really show that however there is a moment right after Llyra rapes Namor, he finds out, and then she lies to him, telling him she is pregnant with his child (at this point in the comics Namor was canonically sterile), and Namor just cracks, with Johnny and Ben saying Namor has "lost it". Namor, the Sub-Mariner (1990) #50

Borderline Personality Disorder

Now everything I've spoken of up until this point is supported by comic examples. However my theory of Namor having Borderline Personality Disorder came about from me rejecting the Bipolar Disorder explanation and then trying to figure out what type of MHI Namor would really have if writers cared at all to understand the character. Most of this comes from me seeing the commonly shared traits between Namor's character and the signs of BPD. I wrote this out before but here's the list again:

An intense fear of abandonment, even going to extreme measures to avoid real or imagined separation or rejection

A pattern of unstable intense relationships, such as idealizing someone one moment and then suddenly believing the person doesn’t care enough or is cruel (see: namor hounding susan storm for years, idolizing her, but it wasn’t actually a relationship)

Rapid changes in self-identity and self-image that include shifting goals and values, and seeing yourself as bad or as if you don’t exist at all

Periods of stress-related paranoia and loss of contact with reality, lasting from a few minutes to a few hours

Impulsive and risky behavior

Wide mood swings lasting from a few hours to a few days, which can include intense happiness, irritability, shame or anxiety

Ongoing feelings of emptiness

Inappropriate, intense anger, such as frequently losing your temper, being sarcastic or bitter, or having physical fights

Most of these traits are things you see throughout the comics, but nothing that's ever stated as BPD. You see Namor struggle with his self-identity, be paranoid that Lady Dorma has abandoned/betrayed him, his wanderings throughout the oceans during his periods of grief or loneliness etc. it's really just a lot of little things that I feel contribute to this headcanon.

The Sub-Mariner (1968) #4

To me Namor having Borderline Personality Disorder clearly explains Namor's rapid shifts of mood better than "oh he's bipolar and its because he's half human/atlantean and needs oxygen or he goes insane", and IF Marvel was to give Namor some kind of mental diagnosis then imo he would not be Bipolar.

Namor has so much external pressure, from the way the Atlanteans have ostracized him, and the politics of the surface world vs the atlanteans, the way he's constantly pushed to war with the humans while at other times trying to prevent war between his two people. The pressures of being a king, and the internal pressures of his inner self, his conflicts of being half human/atlantean, personal life, and losses. It's enough to make anyone crack. Let alone a character who has endured this for decades.

Atlantis Attacks (2020) #1

In conclusion, get this sea king some therapy and let him nap. He really needs it.

#namor #namor mckenzie #namor the sub mariner #mental health issues #comic meta #long post #fantastic four #imp answers

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your-brilliant-lady-m · 3 years

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Part 1 - Basic Concepts of Miraculous Ladybug: Miraculous Jewels

Alright! I promised you meta and now I deliver!

I feel like people mostly watch Miraculous for the romance these days. Shipping is all everyone cares about. I wonder why? Probably because writers themselves don't take their worldbuilding very seriously and because they don't put much effort into making the audience care about something other than Love Square, like the mythology behind the Miraculous, or motivations of the main villain, or some pretty heavy topics for a kid's show that they bring up and then refuse to touch again. You know, all the good things. And this is coming from someone who is a passionate multishipper. I have lived through several shipping wars in different fandoms and came out victorious after all.

I am probably the only person out there who cares about the big picture, the overall storyline and the worldbuilding of Miraculous in addition to all details and implications that could develop into fascinating plotlines relevant to the main story. It is a rather lonely fandom experience, I must confess. But, hey? Who cares? I am here to have fun and bring to the table discussions no one wants to have.

So, let's talk about the basics.

If you, as the writing team, are capable of keeping only 1 thing consistent, then please, I beg you, let it be the basic concepts of your universe. Because in this case, one has to actively put effort into writing characters and conflict resolutions badly. And also because nothing can save bad worldbuilding.

I don't have high worldbuilding standards for Miraculous. They certainly aren't as high as the ones I had for Legend of Korra (which was a badly written trainwreck, that ATLA doesn't deserve as a sequel) or the ones I currently have for Dragon Prince. Therefore I won't be too harsh in my criticisms. Granted, I think that Miraculous has better worldbuilding and lore consistency than Winx Club for example (I haven't seen the reboot yet, so writers might have fixed their worldbuilding at least a little bit). Even though I enjoyed Winx when I was younger and some elements of this story still attract me.

Both serialised and episodic shows as well as movies to the lesser extent must have some flexibility in worldbuilding and plot because you can never be 100% sure where your story is going. Maybe, you'll get money for more seasons, maybe not. However, you must never lose sight of your basic concepts. They have to stay the same no matter what, because rewriting lore and retconning major developments every new season is not and never will be called good writing.

Forgive me for using architectural metaphors, but you need a solid foundation to build any kind of structure. Otherwise, everything falls apart.

I like to apply this logic to writing as well. When designing a world where your story takes place, you must lay a few ground rules. It's especially important if you have a magic system. What kind of ideas absolutely must exist? What kind of conclusion do you want your story to have? Does your magic system has limitations? Where is the grey area? Could you introduce new elements later on?

And I feel like the writing team of Miraculous Ladybug did not ask these questions. This may feel like I am nit-picking canon material and looking for problems that simply aren't there, but I promise that I am not. You see, things that I am about to point out only seem small at first glance. But these details are actually the source of the largest plotholes in the series. And their presence negatively affects character development, conflicts and resolutions of said conflicts.

That doesn't mean that I have nothing good to say about the magic system of the show and its elements. There are a lot of great ideas and concepts. And some of them have the potential to contribute to the delightful story.

Let's dive right into it, shall we?

Camouflage

I have to give credit where it's due because the idea of camouflage and shapeshifting for Miraculouses is brilliant. It seems like Miraculous can't fundamentally change its type of jewellery or accessory. The ring will always be the ring but with a different ornament, colour or shape. This is true most of the time (Monkey Miraculous is an exception since it transformed into earplugs/headphones/headband/circlet) It makes sense and avoids plotholes. Grimoire doesn't have the pictures of each Miraculous in disguise for identity protection. That was very neat too. I have no comments. This concept was very good.

Also, since Marinette wore a nose ring of the Ox in "Kwamibuster" without any problem and Adrien wore Ladybug's earrings in "Reflekdoll", we can assume that you don't need to have piercings to wear a Miraculous. Miraculous just magically passes through your skin.

I'm interested to know the following. Can Kwamis recognise a camouflaged Miraculous on a person? Can the holder order them to confess the identity of this person? This shouldn't be possible for identity protection just like with Kwamis sensing each other. But more on that in later posts.

Power Levels

For a long time, we assume that there are only 7 Miraculouses. Turtle belongs to Master Fu, Gabriel has Butterfly and Peacock, Marinette and Adrien have Ladybug and Black Cat. Everything is pretty straightforward. Then it's revealed that there are more jewels and more boxes. It makes the worldbuilding interesting, but it also majorly complicates things, making them inconsistent.

Their position in the Miracle Box implies their power levels. Creation and destruction are the most powerful forces in existence, therefore they are at the top. Moreover, it makes this Box the most important, the most powerful out of all others. Su Han in "Furious Fu" calls it "Mother Miracle Box". Fox, Turtle, Bee, Butterfly and Peacock have less power than the main pair, but more than the Miraculous of the lower Zodiac tier (since they correspond with animals of the Chinese Zodiac).

1. Ladybug can create anything out of nothing (Lucky Charm, which gives what you need the most at the moment). This Miraculous can resurrect the dead, reverse the effects of the Cataclysm. The power of Miraculous Cure or Miraculous Ladybug can work in several ways:

it simply repairs the damage (puts stuff back together, heals injuries and so on)

it reverses time for the matter, restoring things back to the state they were before the destruction occurred (however, the Cure doesn't erase people's memories of everything that happened unless they were mind-controlled, frozen in place or transformed by Akuma into something else - this is an important point that I'll discuss some other time)

How does Miraculous Cure work when there are no supervillians? In NY Special Marinette just says this.

Excuse me, what? What was that? You can't do anything when the villain is gone? What the hell?

*insert here every scene where Ladybug fixed Paris after destroying akumatized/amokized object (this action causes the Akuma victim to detransform/sentimonster to disappear - villain is gone) and purifying butterfly and feather*

It was such cheap angst. I couldn't even be upset when Adrien gave up his Miraculous, because that whole situation is just stupid. But, never mind. We aren't talking about that today.

Apparently, Lucky Charm and Miraculous Cure only work when summoned to battle a specific villain. What is the point then? Huh? You can't tell me that Ladybug has the power of unlimited creation and then say that she can't repair the damage without a special Lucky Charm that was magically synchronised with specific big bad of the week.

Ladybug also can purify Akumas. It makes sense for Ladybug to have the ability to reverse the magic of less powerful Miraculous. But this power can't be applied universally. How does this power of reversal apply to different situations where there is no evil Butterfly holder? Can Ladybug reverse the magic of any Miraculous?

The unlimited power of creation introduced in season 4 ("Mr. Pidgeon 72") is another fascinating thing. On one hand, it's logical and proves the status of this Miraculous as the most powerful. On the other hand, by introducing this power, you have created a plothole. Look, Marinette can create the charm which repels Akumas. If Ladybug can create anything then what stops her from creating a tool for finding Hawkmoth (like special glasses for discovering identities or a compass)? I mean, the show says that the power of creation is unlimited, it means that the creation of such tool is possible.

2. Black Cat can destroy anything with Cataclysm, even other Miraculous. He can kill living things and turn them into ash, but not himself. This Miraculous is supposed to have other special abilities that we don't see. And they should be equal to powers of Ladybug, both in number and in potency. Unfortunately, after 3 seasons writers didn't give us anything. It makes laughable the idea of balance between Ladybug and Black Cat.

Now, to the second tier. These Miraculouses have a singular ability, but they need a second one to keep the power balanced between Zodiac and the main pair.

3. Butterfly creates champions with different superpowers. But how does the time limit of children work for Butterfly? In theory, the countdown should start right after the creation of the Akuma since for Ladybug and Chat Noir countdown starts after activation of their powers even if they don't use them. However, if the countdown of the Butterfly begins after Akuma creation then there's no point because the holder has to stay transformed to guide their champion. The charged butterfly won't have time to even grant powers before the transformation of the child-holder drops. This issue is never explored because Gabriel doesn't have a time limit. However, I feel like it should be addressed in flashbacks of past Butterfly holders for example.

This Miraculous should be less powerful than Ladybug and Black Cat. It's often not. Some Akumas are too overpowered. Stormy Weather can move the Earth away from the Sun, Timetagger can send people through time and jump through time as well, Chat Blanc destroyed the world with a single energy blast, Miraculer could steal powers of those more powerful than her by default. These are the most notable examples. One could argue that Chat Blanc was a different case. Hawkmoth simply gave the most powerful Miraculous a boost. However, we know that even without a holder (the wildest and the most powerful form of uncontrolled Miraculous magic) Plagg's Cataclysm can't destroy the universe just like that (he presumably wiped out dinosaurs and sunk Atlantis on his own without a holder). I think that the less powerful Miraculous (Butterfly) shouldn't be able to increase the power of destruction to such a degree and give Black Cat the power to destroy celestial bodies and galaxies.

Writers want us to see Hawkmoth as the formidable villain. But it's not easy because he is less powerful than your main heroes by default of your worldbuilding. Sometimes writers make the Butterfly more powerful than creation and destruction to raise the stakes, breaking the laws of their magic system. So, how do you solve this? Let Ladybug and Black Cat keep their status as the most powerful and instead of giving Hawkmoth more magical power, make him smarter, more cunning, inventive. Gabriel is a fashion designer, whose creativity makes him a very good Butterfly holder. He has a life full of experience, he knows much more about things than the main teenage characters. Catalyst was very interesting for this very reason. Gabriel sort of discovered a cheat code to boost his powers. Show us how he experiments with his powers, how he analyses his past Akumas and tries to find the most effective ones. Maybe Gabriel tries to design Akumas that can specifically neutralise Ladybug and Chat Noir. This exploration could also give writers an opportunity to explain how the powers of Butterfly work. Can he control the type of powers he grants? Can he control the appearance of Akumas? There are many things to be explored.

4. Peacock creates sentimonsters. I remember that fans were very disappointed when the power of the Peacock was revealed at the end of season 2. I was one of them. The concept of Amoks is far too similar to akumatized butterflies. Other Miraculouses have unique abilities and keywords for their powers, while Peacock just looks like Butterfly 2.0. That glowing mask effect just adds insult to injury.

You have to start by figuring out the powers of the Peacock in a normal situation. If a holder is a good person, then how does their power work? For example, make them related to sight (because of the "eye" pattern on feathers). Maybe, Peacock grants the ability to see the several possibilities of the future, but only a few minutes ahead. Maybe, this Miraculous gives you the ability to see through someone's eyes for a few minutes (and the victim is completely unaware of the intrusion). Perhaps, Peacock allows the holder to use feathers (or tiny peacocks) as cameras one at a time and be all-seeing. These feather-spies can be destroyed by the holder or disappear on their own after some time. Such power could be devastating when used against heroes in canon.

5. Bee can paralyze. This power is pretty straightforward. Once I read a fanfiction focused on very vell done Chloe Redemption, where she fights alongside Ladybug and Chat Noir. Eventually, she grows and becomes a better person. This fic ends with an Akuma battle, where LB and CN are trapped and Akuma is ready to kill them. But Chloe uses a second power of the Bee on the villain - Miraculous Stinger. It's deadly both for the holder and for the victim (because bees die when they sting someone). Chloe kills the Akuma with a Stinger before it can get LB and CN, but she too dies making the ultimate irreversible sacrifice. I will add a link if I find it again.

6. Turtle can create a shield. I don't have much to say on this either. It feels underpowered compared to others in the second tier. Maybe Turtle can also slow down opponents (because turtles aren't the fasters animals out there).

7. Fox creates illusions and acts as their puppeteer. In order to create a balance between other powers, these illusions must hold for as long as the holder needs them to. I propose this mostly because we see that Venom of the Bee lasts very long, the shield of the Turtle lasts either until it's destroyed or the holder wants to remove it, same goes for Akumas and sentimonsters who disappear only when the holder wants them to or their affected object is destroyed.

Let's talk about Zodiac tier. Miraculous of the third tier shouldn't have the second ability like more powerful ones. These powers are the most inconsistent. Even if we haven't seen all of them yet.

8. Mouse can create many small clones of the holder. It is unclear how these clones communicate with each other and how many of them this Miraculous can create. The holder can control the number of clones. This power was very convenient in "Kwamibuster" and it makes sense symbolically for the mouse. What activates the time-limit for children? Marinette didn't have any problems with it when she became Multimouse.

9. Snake can create a 5-minute time loop and has the ability to come back in time. This Miraculous feels a bit overpowered for the Miraculous of the Zodiac Tier. The holder can reset the time as many times as he/she needs to. It's was a good source of drama and trauma in "Desperada". I was honestly surprised that Adrien was capable of fighting after spending months in a loop. But this doesn't change the fact that Snake is overpowered. You can give this Miraculous the power to hypnotise or keep the time ability but place a limit on the number of resets. How does the lyre work as a weapon? Who knows? No one!

10. Dragon can shapeshift into elements: water, wind and lightning. It has the coolest transformation words hands down (Bring the Storm and Open Sky). Apparently this Miraculous doesn't have the time limit.

11. Rabbit can time travel or jump through alternative realities, even writers aren't sure. Time-travel in this show is so badly written it gives me a headache. This Miraculous shouldn't exist just like its powers. Snake belongs to the same tier, but 5 minutes and whole centuries of time jumps aren't comparable in power levels. They are not and this is the hill I will die on. Give the Rabbit powers related to its symbolism in China like an ability to de-age people, heal them or give them a speed boost in contrast with Turtle who might have the ability to slow down.

This Miraculous is so special that its Kwami - Fluff can live separately from his Miraculous in a Miracle Box for millennia (Fluff lives in the Box in "Sandboy", but his Miraculous, pocket watch, was passed down for generations in Alix's family). This is a discussion for a separate post, however. There's a lot to unpack. We'll do that some other time. You will suffer with me but at a later date.

12. Horse can create portals. They could lead anywhere, which is pretty cool. On the other hand, this power is not very useful in direct combat, especially when it's used by a child since we can have only one portal per transformation.

13. Monkey can cause a malfunction in powers of other people. What is the point of this? This power was specifically created by writers to defeat Akuma in "Party Crasher". That's it. What if your target is not magical? How does this Miraculous work in different circumstances?

14. Pig shows people their greatest desire. Both the holder and the recipient of this power can see this desire. Chat Noir wasn't impressed in "Guiltrip" and neither was I. It's underpowered compared to other Miraculous in this tier. Also, why does the tambourine can shoot energy beams? Why?

That's all I have to say on the matter. I'll update the power analysis as needed.

#miraculous ladybug #ml #miraculous analysis #miraculous meta #ml meta #ml analysis #miraculous transformations #miraculous critical #miraculous ladybug critical #miraculoustalesofladybugandcatnoir #mt of lb and cn #miraculous jewels

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verobatto · 5 years

Text

Hold my hand

14x13 spoiler. Destiel meta.

Hello my dear Fandom! How are you???

I wrote the first part of this meta here and now... Here comes the good thing...

I will talk about HANDS and HONESTY. And how this is subtly another Destiel topic this season. THE MOVES (HANDS), THE TALK (HONESTY), and by the end of this meta... I will conclude with one of the most big impediments we have for Dean, and how he could get over it and heal.

Let's do this...

The moves? Half way

Do you remember my meta from 14x06 (Optimism) in which Jack were asking Dean about "the moves" and "the talk"? Ok... If you didn't read it... Is right here.

With that in your head... Let's see this...

We had seen in two opportunities how the SPN producers released promo pics with this rubbing hands coming from Dean...

Woah, big pic, ok, this was the second one, I can't find the first one but was scandalous too.

And as I mentioned in my Destiel meta "Can I touch you?" Is always Dean who's reaching for Castiel's touch, rubbing his hands in this way, trying to figure out if the Angel is ok with that, approaching him carefully, testing his best friend reaction to his soft caressing. (This is related to "sell the bar, in which Dean was seriously thinking about it).

And now that Dean is thinking about locked himself in that Ma'lak box, is time for Castiel to show him that is more than ok to touch him, is time for Castiel to respond to Dean... Look...

Gif credit @agusvedder

I know is hard, but not so much to see... Look at Castiel's wrist... How he approaches his hand to do the "rubbing" thing, but you can see it, isn't? "Dean, don't do stupid things... Are you going to leave me? Look, I'm ok with this hand things..." And you can see CAS is looking at him to see his reaction (in the middle of Donnie questions) those expressions isn't even related to what Donnie is saying (the following action do) but this gazes... Look at them I don't need to add any words here, Dean can't even keep his eyes on Castiel's gaze. Ok, ok... I could be seeing things... But I guess I'm not. Evidence, my friends... First look is bc the rubbing and then bc of Donnie questions.

OMC!!! They do this in the most random moment as we would do with our crush!

Ok ok....subtext... I'm dead.

In which point did I lose my swing?? O yeah... Sorry... Let move one to the next point.

The Talk? Half way.

Very well... I have to mention my friend @agusvedder and her spec, you can check it here.

My friend described in her spec THE TALK THEY HAD as the turning point from now on.

They had A HALF TALK bc Castiel was shooting with HONESTY AND TRUE FACTS, looking for Dean's answers, looking for Dean's honest words. But they couldn't finish it, and they look upset with the interruption, so here, I'm so agreed with Agus, this TALK is going to continue.

Huge scene, I can't get over it...

So please, let's move on...

I choose my family...

And now... Let's come back to Lebanon... And this scene...

Gif ser credit @agusvedder

I need you to look at Dean's face. His affirmation I HAVE A FAMILY. Maybe isn't the family his dad was waiting for, but IS DEAN WINCHESTER FAMILY. He is confronting his dad here. He knows that as a hunter, his father feels very proud, bc he said so... But now... Now is Dean Winchester choosing his present family. He loves his father, with all his heart, but he needs to let him go, and forgive him. And this limit I HAVE A FAMILY is saying too, I'M NOT A LADIES MAN, bc he KNOWS, HE EMBRACES HOS ROMANTIC LOVE. THAT'S PART OF WHO HE IS.

Dean WINCHESTER, the hunter with a family that doesn't end in blood, and that fell in love with a male angel.

...and I choose you.

Gif set credit @agusvedder

As I said in the first part of this meta, this was what make Dean be sure about his decision. He could lose Castiel again. A Castiel that didn't know him, that never rescued him from hell. This was too much for him, he won't lose his Angel again.

HE CAN'T SAY GOODBYE TO HIS ANGEL.

When the BIG DECISION OF LEAVE JOHN BEHIND was made, we had this two scenes...

Gif set credit @agusvedder

Two couples mirrors of Cas and Dean.

The first one, MARY AND JOHN saying goodbye with pain, and the second one just in their beginning.

Goodbye John, and hello Cas.

Closing a door to open a new one.

"I choose you."

To conclude:

Dean and Cas are slowly trying to connect physically to show each other their true feelings, in the middle of this storm that is Michael.

Dean have to grow and heal a little more, he needs to learn to love himself, but the introduction of John was huge to heal a lot of issues and unresolved business he had as a FIRST BORN, bc the toxic heritage.

Dean was able to choose his present life as a hunter, his family and CAS over his wish of having John Winchester back. He healed and he said I LOVE YOU to his dad.

This is a big step for our hunter to break free from his emotional prison.

And I will throw some spec here, and bc I had this "hands" evidence all over this season, and bc we know the writers put the ands gestures as FORSHADOW, I will say... Be prepared, idk when it will happen... But Castiel and Dean will hold hands.

And if this never happen, I will write the fic! 🤣🤣🤣💕😏

Thanks for reading so far, c-u my friends!

Tagging @metafest Moderators: @gneisscastiel @emblue-sparks @magnificent-winged-beast @mrsaquaman187

Tagging METAFEST friends @legendary-destiel @misha-moose-dean-burger-lover @sassysousa @thatwitchydestielfan @koshisekisen @a-bit-of-influence

Tagging my friends that always supports my metas!! I love you guys! Are you tired of me? 🤣🤣🤣💕💕💕 @evvvissticante @lykanyouko @cheerstofandomfamily

Thanks to @agusvedder who gave me all this beautiful gifs she made x me!!! Love you! 💕💕

Buenos Aires, February 8th 2019 9:34 PM

#destiel meta #14x13 meta #14x13 spoiler #lebanon #metafest

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