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#Marcella gruelle
thebisquelady · 3 months
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Raggedy Ann and Andy dolls are so cute and have always been apart of my life. They’re so lovable and the fact that Johnny Gruelle made a patent just for Marcella’s love to carry on is so sweet. 😭 They have a heart on their chest that says “I love you”. Even the home-made ones all have a heart. It’s so sweet if you think about it.
Plus, Andy and Ann (siblings or lovers not rlly confirmed I guess idk) nvm definitely siblings guys 👍
have always never been separated. Some dolls have their hands sewn together so they can never leave each others side.
I’ve been collecting them and other dolls for at least 5 years now. I dislike the fact people associate her with Annabelle. Annabelle was the big raggedy Ann doll that was occupied by a demon. That is in the past like not every Ann n Andy doll has a preoccupied demon ready to come home with you???
But seriously, let’s appreciate them both and Johnny gruelles work <3
Thanks to johnnys love for Marcella and to keep her memory alive, we now have the raggedies
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transgendertails · 4 months
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Sometimes I think
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Most of the time it’s about this
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tomoleary · 3 months
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Johnny Gruelle (1880-1938) “Marcella, A Raggedy Ann Story” book cover (1929) Source
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everythingisround · 6 months
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info dump about raggedy ann and andy, just recently watched the show and i am in love B))
hello!! ive been in the fandom for two and a half years (almost three lol), so i know a bit about raggedy ann and andy.
so raggedy ann and andy were created in the early 20th century, the former sibling coming first with her patent in september 1915. the most popular legend surrounding her creation is that she was based off an old rag doll that belonged to creator johnny gruelle's mother/sister (can't remember exactly), who he then drew a face on and gave to his beloved daughter, marcella, who sadly would pass away months after ann's patent. marcella's inclusion in the raggedy books has been seen by many raggedy historians as johnny working through his grief by immortalizing his daughter's likeness in his stories to remember her in a positive way. andy came around in august 1920 and is said to have been created with johnny's sons, worth and richard, in mind.
the 1977 film is probably where a lot of the younger fans first became interested in raggedy ann (well, that and tadc, and even then gooseworx is a pretty big fan of the film and even specifically based jax's voice on raggedy andy from the film), although the 1986 broadway musical has also been bringing a lot of people in through tumblr and tiktok. the film, despite ultimately flopping at the box office, had the esteemed richard williams at the helm of the animation, even animating the ever so popular "no girl's toy" sequence. of course, richard williams being richard williams, went way overbudget and way past the deadline and ended up being removed from the project just so it could get released. considering the composer of the film, joe raposo, theorized that the film flopping had something to do with the first star wars movie being released around the same time, it's interesting to think about how the raggedy film's fate could've been altered if it had released the year prior for america's bicentennial. the 1986 musical is a whole other can of worms, and im still learning a lot about it from being in the RARE server (which you should definitely check out, wink wink nudge nudge), but to summarize, a combination of a development team constantly at the brink of self-destruction, constant adherence to a family-friendly atmosphere spurred by parental concerns despite the dark themes playwright william gibson intended the story to have, and too much of the budget spent on expensive special effects that nearly killed the actors led to the musical notoriously flopping on broadway and ending its run prematurely never to be seen or heard from again. or so they thought.......
although the 1986 musical is considered a failure in the united states, over in russia, the story has a small cult following amongst childrens and community theatre productions. basically, in 1985, the musical was brought to the USSR as part of a cultural exchange between the two superpowers, and considering that russians had not been familiarized with raggedy ann or her cultural impact up until this point, this led to the rag doll and her friends not being seen as cheap americana, but rather somewhat of a childrens fable (ironic, considering raggedy ann as a character was born from johnny gruelle's stories...). because of this, russian productions of rag dolly (the 1986 musical) are plentiful, with even some very recent productions popping up every now and then. it should be noted that these productions rarely contain the original songs; sometimes the story will just be played straight with no music, while other productions will substitute the lack of musical songs with their own music. this can lead to some..... interesting results lol
i feel it is also important to bring up the various other adaptations of raggedy ann, too! there's the original books, of course, but if you're an animation nerd like me, there's the 1941 fleischer short (which takes some.... interesting creative liberties from the original source material), the two noveltoons shorts, the chuck jones holiday specials from 1978 and 79, the 1980s cartoon (watch at your own risk lol), and the two snowden specials from 1998; one is just a straightforward direct-to-vhs animated special, while the second is a full ice show with animated segments dispersed throughout. you get to see raggedy elvis! who doesnt want to see raggedy elvis?
in this last section ill just toss to you a bunch of links i recommend if you wanna learn more about raggedy ann beyond the movie!
(i should also probably mention now that some books and adaptations of raggedy ann feature racial stereotypes- i know suddenly its spring has a racial caricature in terms of adaptations specifically- likely due to the culture at the time. these depictions are obviously not right, but sadly when we're talking about a franchise that has been around for over a century, it's kind of unavoidable especially in the older books, so just be aware that those depictions will come up occasionally.)
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my pal brooklyn is also working on a more extensive video on raggedy ann history, so be on the lookout for that when it comes out :)
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eclipsewarrior101 · 8 months
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Today in History: September 7th
Today marks the Day the Beloved Raggedy Ann doll turns 109 years old. Raggedy Ann was made in 1914 by John Gruelle after his daughter Marcella found an old doll with no face. He helped her make a face and then gave her the name Raggedy Ann. Marcella unfortunately passed away at a young age. Gruelle made the doll in her honor. Years later he created Raggedy Andy, Ann’s little brother. Raggedy Ann and Andy has been a successful franchise for many years with books, a television series, tv specials, a movie and even merchandise. Even one of the worlds most haunted objects is a Raggedy Ann doll.
To honor this milestone let’s take a moment and watch or read about this. Watch the specials, tv show or movie. Maybe even post art saying happy birthday.
I know to many it’s just a doll. But it’s part of our history.
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I have two questions about the creativity behind the revival and redesigning characters!! :))))
1. Are you guys going to use any other Raggedy Ann media for Broadway? Like using the books (the original ones made by John Gruelle) as a sorta of creative inspiration? Or will you be using different media from the Raggedy Ann franchise as creative inspiration?
2. I'm curious about how do you redesign a character like Panda to Teddy, I've been trying my own redesigns on characters and I have been struggling with it, do you have any ideas to make my redesigns of characters be better then their original design/concept?
Thank you for the questions!!!
1. Yes! We all absolutely love early Raggedy Ann media, especially the books. Johnny Gruelle did create Raggedy Ann for the love of the real Marcella, after all, and we are trying to keep that intrinsic to the show, so that, even in fiction, the love between Marcella and her dad can be remembered. We are planning to have Raggedy Ann look more homemade and scrappy, like she would have in real life, and we have also snuck in a few very subtle references to the Gruelle books. Though no design concepts are official or concrete yet, we hope to take some inspiration from the original illustrations or the real life events surrounding the creation of Raggedy Ann.
2. Teddy isn't technically a "redesign" of Panda; they're a completely new character (who also happens to be a bear)! I say this because Panda's spot in the story was a bit of a blank slate; we had to keep the essential dialogue, in some regard, and the same dynamic in the group, but couldn't necessarily keep Panda as a character for obvious reasons. We tried out Babette from the 1977 film, but she didn't fit, both in terms of mood/tone and in terms of how she would move along the story. We ultimately created our own character, who became Teddy! The replacement wasn't just visual; so much thought and work was put into Teddy before their visual appearance was even considered. We had to change all of the dialogue to fit their tone and personality, while still writing with the style and intention that William Gibson had originally wanted for Panda and for the show as a whole. Teddy's personality was developed as we wrote based on the needs of the story, which actually gave us some wonderful opportunities for character development that Panda never received, and, accidentally, an opportunity to fill a long unfilled plot hole in the show. Teddy serves the story in the departments where Panda was lacking, while also supporting the story in the same way Panda did well, and that's their most important aspect in my opinion. They were created for the Raggedy Ann musical, not because of it. (If that makes sense?) Also, they're just super cute, quirky, and loveable.
Thank you so much for the asks, I always love answering these types of questions. :)
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undergroundbillions · 1 month
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What's your favorite Raggedy Ann book?
i'm sure some of the mods share this opinion lol
Marcella: A Raggedy Ann Story
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i think the art is gorgeous and the stories are lovely. the peak of the gruelle books for sure
- mod wowf🐾
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meowydoe · 4 months
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What do you think the names of the ‘nameless’ Rag Dolly characters would be?
-🪡
Because Marcella in the musical is based off of the real life Marcella Gruelle, Poppa & Mommy’s names would technically be Johnny & Myrtle, but aaaalso to not get the fictional Marcella’s family confused with the real Marcella’s family I like to think their names are Dave and Bernadette. They just LOOK like a Dave and a Bernadette to me (however I’m still callin them Poppa and Mommy so it doesn’t matter lmao)
I’m gonna include the characters whose names are just like. what they are. Idk if that’s part of what you meant but
Camel I have no idea
Panda I have no idea (Though Teddy is an actual name so let’s just say that)
Baby maybe Goldie or Minnie? Something with an -ie
The Batettes (battetes? whatever) canon names are Lily, Morticia, and Elvira!
The Raggettes I have no idea
I have beef with the rat in the Rolls Royce so he doesn’t get one
Also I know he has a name but in my head General D is a Gaylord not because of the gay part surprisingly but because it’s the name of Mr Robinson from TAWOG and yk. grumpy old men
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bluerapunzel103 · 5 months
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Not an Easy Job
My contribution to @raggedyannrevivaleffort's 2023 gift exchange! @stpaulofsuburbia, I hope you enjoy reading this as much as I enjoyed writing it!
Synopsis: General D. rides at night. Now, he rides alone. This gives him ample opportunity to ruminate on his position as General Darkness, Decay, Dissolution, Done For, Death, Doom.
Fandom: Raggedy Ann/Rag Dolly Character: General D., Bat Mention, Wolf Mention, Marcella Mention, Raggedy Ann Mention Dynamics: Past General D. and Bat and Wolf, Marcella and Raggedy Ann Rating: General/K+ Content Warnings: MASSIVE spoilers to Rag Dolly, heavy themes of death, grief, repression as present in the show Beta read?: Yes
Being Darkness is a dull job. General D. must operate mostly in the nighttime, only working in daylight in times of emergency and crisis. To be Darkness is, literally speaking, just that. He is one with the darkness, in most cases, to bring new souls into his army. Working with just the din of midnight's stillness leaves him ample time to meditate--no, ruminate--on his position in his travels. Granted, often, his right-hands killed that quiet, whenever he had right-hands, but even when he has none, or just finds peace, these thoughts occupy him instead. He supposes it comes with his rank, and he shouldn't be one to complain.
Being Decay is a gruelling job. So many people and animals die every single day. If one were to think about it, it's no wonder he needs an army. The volume of his workload is simply impossible to ever dream of fulfilling entirely on his own. Come to think of it, the General should probably think of recruiting some right-hands. He was beginning to regret letting Bat and Wolf fall victim to their own hubris. They were both very useful for covering more ground on busy nights. Then again, they were prone to taking entirely too long at their jobs. And pestering him. And, of course, thinking independently. Well, just because the General's army is large, it doesn't mean that there aren't no-good, clumsy, wimpy, flat-out useless excuses for soldiers within his legions.
Being Dissolution is a thankless job. No one ever thinks about the work it takes for him to consider when a soul is ready for recruitment. Yes, there have been countless miscalculations. In fact, not long ago, he had thought he found a good recruit to take Wolf's place, but the dog survived his ills and was back on his paws in no time. And, of course, Marcella still stings, considering that was when Wolf's soul died to begin with. But usually, he knows when it's time. Like now. He has finished recruiting a bullfrog who has met the end of its life. It was ready. It had been for a while. Each time, he takes whichever appendage is the most suited for a handshake, congratulates the new soul on their use of their life, and then presents them with their new title as Soldier of General D.'s Army. Then, he points them in the direction of the nearest boot camp for the dead to have the liveliness trained out of them. If they're lucky, they may rise to the top legion, just below right-hands to the General. Even just his workload adds up. He needs to hire right-hands.
Being Done For is an annoying job. Lately, it's been a bit quieter since Bat and Wolf have been gone, and it's allowed for some welcome peace and quiet on good days, to allow the General to meditate-ruminate. There are still times, though, that he finds himself pestered by the newest soldiers. Their relentless cries over regrets in their lives, seemingly endless questions as to whether their families and friends would be okay without them, what their title meant, and whether this surely would be forever. Even this bullfrog seems so unsure of themself in their first few minutes in this realm. The General has seen this countless times in varying orders, but it gets no easier to tolerate it every time, especially after he has just told them what they were now, for how long, and where the nearest boot camp was. He briskly takes Bullfrog's hand and tugs them along. Once he thankfully finds a veteran recruit, a human whose car he found on the road one rainy night, he shoves the clueless amphibian onto her to take to camp. Now, he could focus more on honing down the gentleman he was after next.
Being Doom is a lonely job. It is true. Despite the countless thousands of legions that he has accrued over the course of his career, despite, yes, the company of Bat and Wolf, the General has always been lonely, in a sense. It is something he does to himself. Being a harbinger of heartbreak, after all, does not necessarily grant one social capital in a world that can never seem to agree whether death is a good thing or a bad thing. He is quite positive most of his soldiers don't have a high opinion of him. Even more, though, he is trying not to get too attached to his recruits anymore. The last time he sought companionship with one, he not only lost his chance at bringing her aboard when he wanted to, but in his rage, he ended up losing his own right-hands. It truly is a shame, whenever he thinks about it. That's why he tries not to. Companionship only distracts him from his work.
Being Death is a cruel job. There are times where he does get a sick kick out of it, one should not get him wrong. The General usually is the first to admit that he has historically had quite liberal standards as for whether a soul "deserves" to be taken. Even when he killed Bat and Wolf, he is willing to admit, he felt a rush that he had not felt in so long. But even then, he has standards, and death is indiscriminate by design. Death is neutral, not on anyone's side. As such, especially since Raggedy Ann saved Marcella's life, he has begun to somewhat regret some of his recruits. He begins to feel sympathy for their loved ones. Each tear of confusion from a child who has seen her goldfish flip upside down in her tank. Each pained caress of a trunk from a pack of elephants at their matriarch's funeral. Each cry of anguish from a man freshly grieving his wife after a fast-acting illness. Again, he tries so much not to let himself get distracted by his feelings and do his job without any feelings of, "what if?" He is beginning to turn into a sorry excuse for a General, if he were to say so.
Being General D is not an easy job. It never has been, and it never will be. It is only getting harder. That is the one thing certain to him tonight as he finally finds his next recruit. An old man surrounded by his loved ones. There is no doubt to the General that it's his time. He cleanses the tattered, shattered, freshly-aching remnants of his heart, then he makes his entrance.
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sun-3-160 · 1 year
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"Anti-vaccine activity in America also produced a popular icon. In 1915, Johnny Gruelle, a cartoonist and illustrator in New York City, watched his daughter, Marcella, die following a smallpox vaccine. Even though the medical report stated that the child had died from a heart defect, Gruelle blamed the vaccine. In his daughter’s memory, he created a doll with red yarn for hair and floppy arms and legs—a symbol of children harmed by vaccines. He called it Raggedy Ann." Deadly Choices: How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens Us All by Dr. Paul A. Offit
This is not fucking true. Marcella died on 8 November 1915, and Gruelle had filed the patent on 28 May 1915. Doesn't necessarily discredit Dr. Offit as he is definitely an expert in his field but I wish people would stop spreading this rumor.
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kilopmobile · 2 years
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Raggedy andy
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He was never lonesome, however, as there was a family of mice in the corner of the trunk, and Andy would take care of the baby mice when the mama and daddy mice were away. It is unknown what happened in the time between Bessie's move and Andy's eventual reunion with Raggedy Ann, but in the chapter "The Nursery Dance", Andy states that he had been shut up in a trunk in the attic for decades. Unfortunately, Bessie's family moved away a few years after. Gruelle's mother and Bessie would play with the two rag dolls very frequently, sometimes even putting dresses over Andy's boy clothes when the girls decided he and Ann should be sisters for the day. Bessie's doll was made by her mother a day or so after Raggedy Ann, and was named Raggedy Andy so that their names would sound alike. Raggedy Andy's debut book, "Raggedy Andy Stories", as well as the accompanying dolls produced by manufacturing company Beers-Keeler-Bowman, became an instant hit, refueling Raggedy Ann's popularity and proving that a brother-and-sister team was much more marketable than a stand-alone character.Ĭharacter wise, in the first few pages of "Raggedy Andy Stories", a letter written from the perspective of Johnny Gruelle's mother tells how Raggedy Andy once belonged to Gruelle's mother's childhood friend, Bessie. Twee Deedle" comics, a pair of siblings who would often accompany Mr. The brother-and-sister bond between Ann and Andy was partially inspired by the characters Dickie and Dolly from Gruelle's "Mr. Unlike Raggedy Ann's rather detailed patent design, Andy's design was extremely simplified, perhaps to offer broader patent protection. The patent for Raggedy Andy was officially registered on August 24th, 1920. The origins of Raggedy Andy are uncertain, but a common myth is that creator Johnny Gruelle was inspired to create the rag doll after seeing his young sons, Worth and Dickie Gruelle, play with his daughter Marcella Gruelle's beloved doll Raggedy Ann, with some accounts stating that the boys wanted their own boy doll is play with.
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thebisquelady · 3 months
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MY FAVORITE DOLL SET-UP!!!
I even have a puppet raggedy Andy ☹️👍
I have many more dolls this is just my favorite raggedy set up I have more they’re in a raggedy Ann moving box/toy box! They’re so cute
I even have those big walker dolls (Patti playpal from the 50s SHES ACTUALLY IDEAL TOO OMG
I also have knock off pattis which is still as cool I love every doll old or new
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canaldelmisterio · 6 years
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El dueño de una tienda en Escocia graba cómo se mueve una muñeca poseída
El dueño de una tienda en Escocia graba cómo se mueve una muñeca poseída
El dueño de una tienda en escocia graba cómo se mueve una muñeca poseída
El inquietante vídeo fue grabado por unos trabajadores de una tienda benéfica en Escocia, quienes decidieron instalar una cámara para poder ver como se movía la muñeca supuestamente poseída. Según la descripción del vídeo, el pasado 21 de junio, el gerente de la tienda recibió la muñeca Raggedy Ann junto con una caja con…
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everythingisround · 1 year
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I think a lot of people who aren’t in the raggedy fandom or are just getting into the fandom may be a bit confused why so many of us headcanon Raggedy Andy as trans, so I decided to compile all the more heavily transcoded traits from across adaptations that fans use to justify their headcanons, plus some stuff I noticed on my own that I decided to add here.
Please note that I am in no way saying that trans/gnc headcanons NEED ‘evidence’ to be considered valid, or that Johnny Gruelle himself created Raggedy Andy with a trans man in mind. I just thought it would be helpful to have a little database of sorts for those who are first encountering this headcanon, and just in general to bounce ideas around that some may find representative of themselves and their experiences. Also, I’m trans, so I’m gonna make every male character in fiction trans too :p
I present to you… Trans Raggedy Andy™️
starting off with his design, andy has eyelashes, a trait commonly associated with female characters. note how other male dolls like clem, henny, and cleety the clown do not have this trait. (clem does have eyelashes in some illustrations, but their design is already EXTREMELY inconsistent lol)
andy’s hair in the early illustrations and dolls is very choppy and uneven, implying that he may have cut it himself. you could make the argument that ann or bessie (andy’s original owner) cut his hair for him, but let’s be honest, it probably would’ve looked a lot more neat and well layered than his current hairdo lmao
andy's arms are very large and disproportionate compared to ann's, which are very slim and feminine. perhaps andy stuffed them himself to give the illusion of muscles?
on the topic of andy's arms, in the books and some of the dolls and animated adaptations, his arm fabric is white, just like ann's. this isn't an issue at a glance; it was mostly likely an homage to ann and andy's design inspiration of scarecrows and clowns, which both typically wear gloves (moreso clowns with their signature white gloves). however, if we assume that raggedy ann stories takes place in 1918 (as that was the year it was published), and the beginning introduction states that ann is physically 59 years old, with andy being sewn a day or two afterwards according to raggedy andy stories, then both ann and andy were sewn in 1859. thing is, andy's outfit is sort of a mismash of contemporary fisherman/sailor attire, and fishermen/sailors didn't typically wear gloves back in those days, and even today. however, plenty of women, especially those of higher classes, wore gloves as a sign of neatness and status. granted, ann's attire seems to be more rural, but if, say, you were a working class woman in the mid 19th century, chances are you'd wear gloves at least some point. or maybe marcella's great-grandma/bessie's mom just used whatever scraps of fabric they had :shrug:
compared to ann's clothes, andy's clothes are a lot more modern (at least for the time period) and put together, with buttons and bowties galore. sure, bessie's mom could've just had those trinkets lying around, but considering the letter at the start of raggedy andy stories states that bessie and marcella's grandma lived next door with no fence, they were most likely lower class. personally, i like the idea of that ann made andy's current clothes herself :) maybe, with the civil war in america going on around the same time, ann might've based his clothes off of some of the sailors from that time...
in many of the adaptations, most notably the 1977 movie and the 1986 broadway musical, andy's arc usually revolves around him trying to prove himself, mostly by asserting himself to be as masculine as possible. one could argue that this is just a classic case of toxic masculinity, and while that could be a byproduct of his behavior, we do see him show sympathy and compassion for others, especially his sister. this indicates, to me at least, that andy's yearning to break away from others' expectations of him and be the strong, tough, and terrific boy he is is an internal conflict rather than an external one.
ill admit this is a bit more farfetched, but andy's voice does kinda sound like someone going through hrt, where the voice is in that awkward state of sounding more like a teenage boy as it slowly deepens with increased doses. (note that i havent gone on hrt yet; im mostly basing this off some of the things that my friend who has been through hrt has relayed onto me) if you listen to the 1977 movie, 1986 musical, and even the chuck jones specials, andy's voice definitely gives off that vibe (at least to me). then again, that may just be a result of the rag dolls being ageless, or the writers not knowing whether they wants the dolls to be minors or adults.
no girl's toy. yeah.
finally, ann and andy look basically identical, especially looking at them from the back view. heck, you can't even tell some of the dolls apart without their clothes on. this most likely indicates that bessie specifically wanted a doll that looked like marcella's grandma's, so that they could play with them as sisters and all that. it's also more common for kids with toys that share the same gender as them (though not all the time, of course), and boy dolls were almost always love interests for the girl dolls back then. even in the raggedy andy stories letter from earlier, johnny's mom (who, considering marcella was directly based off of johnny's own daughter, is most likely marcella's grandma in this context) even states that andy would sometimes be dressed in girl clothes when she and bessie wanted him to be ann's sister on that particular day. while that definitely makes me feel bad for andy if this is after his transition, marcella's grandma is also an old lady at this point, so it's very possible she could be misremembering, or perhaps she didn't want to confuse her son by saying her friend's girl doll magically turned into a boy doll one day. trans people were almost unheard of back then, after all, even though the concept of being trans has existed for thousands of years.
yup. that's the tea. this ended up being WAY longer than i originally intended, so i apologize for that... hopefully ive explained myself the best i could. tldr; raggedy andy has been trans since forever im sorry :(
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artisteflo · 2 years
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Raggedy Ann et Andy:A Toy Land Adventure Album #3
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Here is another album on Raggedy Ann and Andy A Toy Land Adventure
Raggedy Remi, Lisa, Yoni and Dragonosaurus (c) artiste flo
Raggedy Ann, Raggedy Andy and Marcella (c) Johnny Gruelle
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devlunar · 3 years
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I'm still just looking out the window thinking for hours so heres how Russet came to be:
I'm gonna pretend Clem existed offscreen in the movie and that he and Andy already had an established relationship. A few years after the events of the film, Marcella's parents bring home a baby boy named Richard (based off Gruelle's irl son). The toys would sneak around at first to see this new kid that the family was talking about but soon Marcella would have to share her plush toys with him and they'd get to see more of Richard up close. Andy's happy that theres a boy around that will play with him when he's older but he and Clem are also fascinated by the idea of creating a new family member. It seems that humans who love each other want to raise children together and they wonder if they could ever do the same thing. They're not sure how biological creatures reproduce but they know how dolls are made so they get to work finding everything they need to put a new doll together. The other playroom toys who heard of their effort express doubts that a doll can make another doll, or at least a living one. It was unknown what exactly gave them life and it was possible that only the toys made by human hand could become a person. Though unsure of what would happen, Andy and Clem finished putting their doll together and were thrilled to see it slowly come alive as if it was waking up from a deep sleep.They were so caught up in just making the doll and hoping it'd work that they didn't even pick a gender so Russet remained androgynous. 
My theory for what makes an inanimate object come alive is this:
-It must resemble a living thing to some degree but can still be abstracted.
-Someone must genuinely view it as another living being. Children tend to treat their toys like real companions, so it's their imagination that gives it life. 
EDIT: ok i forgot i also think a doll can "die" by being forgotten by the person/people that treated it like a living being.
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