#Laios is autistic
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Average Laios info dump session (I bet every dollar I have that these go on for a minimum of 2 hours)
I love these guys
#delicious in dungeon#dungeon meshi#dun meshi#doodle#laios dungeon meshi#senshi dungeon meshi#chilchuck dungeon meshi#marcille dungeon meshi#I love these guys so much#I just want to twirl them all around#Laios is autistic#actually all of them are#because I say so#this isn’t size accurate#because it’s a 10 minute doodle#tee hee
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local ladies man’s signature move totally useless against autistic monster enthusiast. more on Kabru’s fumble era at 6
#i’ve seen so many interpretations of that 1 hr freeze frame of Kabru’s smile in ep 16#he’s meeting his long time crush of course he’s trying to charm him#Kabru so obviously has a big fat giant crush on Laios#like atp in the story he’s tried to talk to him and get his attention so many times agjdjajdj#Laios is the human rubix cube he’s been searching for his entire life#everyone else is almost too easy for Kabru to pin down#Laios on the other hand … a treasure trove of autistic mystery#Kabru is so locked in#Kabru used signature move: charming smile#Laios: no effect!#there’s something so beautiful about the popular pretty boy entering his fumble era when his one true love turns out to be autistic#labru#laios touden#kabru of utaya#dungeon meshi#delicious in dungeon#wasabi rambles#seen so many clock that smile as nefarious and machiavellian#baby no Kabru is just dialing the charm up to 100 and what we’re all feeling is second hand embarrassment LMAO
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finally started watching dungeon meshi and this is my understanding of it so far
#aquila talks#dungeon meshi#dunmeshi#delicious in dungeon#laios dungeon meshi#marcille dungeon meshi#chilchuck#senshi dungeon meshi#its got food lesbians dnd dungeons and an autistic mc which means its perfect media
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Dungeon meshi, ah, dungeon meshi 🥧
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i'll strangle you or i'll kiss you on the mouth
#laius thorden#laios touden#kabru#dungeon meshi#delicious in dungeon#my art#Linktoo art#labru#narrative foil yaoi my weakness.... anyway#the way he grabs that guy and begs him to stay and begs like please LISTEN to me#its so funny how kabru‚ someone who prides himself with understanding people and their motivations#just can't handle having some random guy like laius with a big prophecy on his head remain a mystery to him#the way laius just entirely evades him it drives him crazy. kabru puts motivations and assumptions in his mouth in any attempt to Know him#hes so scared of this man yet simultaneously drawn by being unable to discern his thought process#meanwhile#laius is just autistic
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Represention of Autistic Frustration in Laios Dungeon Meshi
Like many other autistic people, I related strongly to Laios Touden while reading Dungeon Meshi. This post isn't going to spend time disputing whether he displays autistic traits or not—while I could do that, I want to focus on why specifically his portrayal struck a chord with me in a way the writing of most other autistic-coded characters has not.
Disclaimer: as the above suggests, this post is strongly informed by my own experiences as an autistic person, as well as the experiences of my neurodivergent friends with whom I have spoken about this subject. I want to clarify that in no way am I asserting my personal experience to be some Universal Autistic Experience. This post is about why Laios' character feels distinct and significant to me in regard to autistic representation, and while I'm at it, I do feel that I have interesting things to say about autistic representation in media generally. This also got a bit long, so I'm sticking it under a read more. Spoilers for up to the end of chapter 88 below.
The thing that stands out most to me in regard to Laios' characterisation is the open anger he displays when someone points out his inability to read other people. This comes up prominently in his interactions with "Shuro" (Toshiro Nakamoto):
The frustration pictured above (Laios continuing to physically tussle with Toshiro, using crude language toward him) becomes even more notable when you remember that this is Laios, who, outside of these interactions, is not easily fazed and often exists as a lighthearted contrast to the rest of the cast. Then we get to Laios' nightmare.
In Falin's words: "Nightmares love emotional wounds. Wounds you hold in your heart. Things that give you stress, or things that were traumatic for you. They aggravate memories like that and cause the dreamer to have terrible dreams." (chapter 42, page 10.) (damn. i'm properly citing for this post and everything.)
Thus, Laios' nightmare establishes an important fact: even if he is unable to recognise social blunders while he's making them, he's at least subconsciously aware that other people operate on a different wavelength to him, and that he's an outsider in many of his social circles (both past and present). His dream-father's disparaging words stress the impact this has had upon his ability to live up to the expectations set out for him, and we also get a panel of kids who smirk at him (presumably former bullies to some degree). Toshiro's appearance only hammers home how much Laios is still both humiliated and angered by his misunderstanding of their relationship.
I've thought a lot about anger as concomitant to the autistic experience. When autistic representation portrays ostracization, it's generally from an angle of the autistic character being upset at how conforming to neurotypical norms doesn't come easily to them; as a result, they express a desire to 'get better' at meeting neurotypical standards, a desire to become more 'normal' (whether the writing implies this is a good thing or not). In contrast, not once does Laios go, "I need to perform better in my social interactions, and try to care less about monsters, because that's what other people find weird." His frustration is directed outward rather than inward, and as a result, it's the people around him who are framed as nonsensical.
The Winged Lion starts delineating Laios' anger, and Laios' reaction is to think to himself, "It can sense all my thoughts, huh?" (chapter 88, page 16.) This is the scene that really resonated with me. I'm not saying I have never felt the desire to conform to neurotypical norms that is borne from insecurity, but primarily, I know that I don't want to work toward becoming 'normal'—I don't want to change myself for people who follow rules I find nonsensical. It's the difference between, "Oh god, why can't I get it," and, "WHY CAN'T YOU GET IT?" (phrasing here courtesy of my friend Miles @dogwoodbite). And for me personally, Dungeon Meshi is the first time I've seen this frustration and the resultant voluntary isolation from other people portrayed in media so candidly. Laios' anger is not downplayed or written to be easily palatable, either.
The culmination of Laios' frustrations in this scene wherein we learn that Laios has fantasised about "a pack of monsters attacking a village" drives home just how alienated he really feels. I need not go into his wish to become a monster himself, redolent of how many autistic people identify/have identified with non-humans to some degree as a result of a percieved disconnect from society (when I was younger, I wanted to be a robot. I still kind of do.)
Obviously, wishing death upon other people is a weighty thing, but the unfiltered nature of this page is what deeply resonated with me. The Winged Lion is laying Laios' deepest and most transgressive desires bare, and they are desires that are a product of lifelong ostracization by others (whether intentional or unintentional). This is the brand of anger I'm familiar with, and that my neurodivergent friends express being familiar with, but that I haven't seen portrayed in writing so explicitly before—in fact, it surprised me because most well-meaning autistic representation I've experienced veers toward infantilisation in trying make the autistic character's struggles easy for neurotypicals to sympathise with.
Let's also not neglect the symbolism inherent to Laios' daydream. "A pack of monsters attacking a village". Functionally, monsters are Laios' special interest—he percieves everything first and foremost through his passion for monsters. His daydream of monsters attacking—killing—humans, is fundamentally a daydream of the world he understands (monsters) overthrowing the world that is so illogical to him, that has repeatedly shunned him (other people). I joked to my friends that it's an autistic power fantasy, and it actually sort of is. And in it, his identity is aligned with that of the monsters, while his anger manifests in a palpable dissociation from the rest of humanity. This is one manga page. It's brief. It's also very, very raw to me. I think about it often.
To conclude, I love Laios Dungeon Meshi. This portrayal of open frustration in an autistic character meant a lot to me, and I hope I've sufficiently outlined why. Also, feel free to recommend media with autistic representation in the notes if you've read this far—I would really like to see if there is more of this nature. Thank you for reading. I'm very tired and should probably sleep now.
#dungeon meshi#dunmeshi#laios touden#shuro#toshiro nakamoto#the winged lion#autistic#autism#clay writes#i GUESS#this was so spur of the moment. im so busy right now i dont have time to be analysing laios touden#i wuont angry autistic rep..
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Honestly I don't think I'm qualified to make this post, I just don't know if I can make coherent enough words man. But the thoughts are in there and I will try to articulate them. This is probably going to be mostly images though.
anyway yeah KABRU POST.
A couple nights ago (at approximately 2:30am, lasting a little over half an hour) I had a bit of a moment about Kabru. That, too, was mostly images- most of what you see in this more concise post were presented then as well. I think my main points of the "moment" were about Kabru's trauma + self hatred, his autism and/or general otherness, and also a little labru if you'd like..
I think something easy to start with is I wanna point out Kabru's constant back and forth and conflicting opinions of demihumans and how, I believe, thats a reflection of how he goes back and forth on what he believes his purpose of living is- and the general worth of his own life. I've said it before and i've just kinda shown it in images; Kabru is "i think im a monster and it disgusts me" where Laios is "I know im a human and it disgusts me" (i could go more into the latter on another post)
the above are both from the world bible, with the left being from the section on kobolds and the right being from the section on Kuro specifically.
Utaya was very near to the desert where most of the kobold population is, this is likely why Kabru is able to speak Kuro's language- he grew up around demihumans. (chapter 48 cover, kobold chapter in the world bible) I won't try to speak for how his mother or the rest of utaya felt about the kobolds but I can say that Kabru was very much othered as a child, as was his mother, purely for the way her son's (kabru) eyes looked.
I feel like its fair enough to say that both kabru and the kobolds were othered, and possibly for similar reasons (villager's seeing them as nonhuman, as monsters) and the fact that Kabru learned their language probably didn't help his case. I think his perception of kobolds (and all demihumans, subsequently himself, as he probably still views himself as nonhuman or not human enough.. deep down) was damaged by the Utaya incident.
at 2:30am when I first started this ramble my main comment was that "had the utaya incident not happened kabru would have little reason to feel ashamed for his connection to monsters. and may have ended up similar to laios in that he couldve had otherkin swag" which is just a sort of silly way of saying Kabru could've learned to love the thought that he is possibly nonhuman or at least not hated himself so much for it.
in the original ramble I said, and quote, "he has been STALKING laios. laios is his hyperfixation to learn how he can ever be loved. he keeps going back and forth so harshly on wether or not he wants to kill Laios and he clearly sees his survival from utaya not as an unfortunate trauma [*] but as a necessary, deserved fate. a punishment for his mother's witchy sins, and for his sin of being non-human. to atone for it all, to apologize for being alive, he tries to better the lives of all humanity. He was set on his way to dethrone the governor of the island . do you understand? im going insane"
*i also said somethings about the way he processes other people's traumas and not his own. He's able to understand and even help some people, but he struggles to process his own issues and see himself as worthy of love and life.
^some examples of Kabru being understanding of or helping others who have suffered greatly.
I think its also worth mentioning that with Rin (called "Lynn" in that translation) he says "I wish there was a way to get her out of this" though he's insisted and pushed for himself to go into a dungeon;
In chapter 94, Mithrun says "The desire I had left wasn't revenge. All I wanted.. was for it to finish devouring me." and I don't feel like it's a stretch to say Kabru was in a similar situation. Mithrun sought out the demon with no plan on how to kill something like that because deep down he wanted it to end his (Mithrun's) own life, to finish the trauma it caused and kill him. I think Kabru went into the dungeon in part with the hopes that it'd kill him. That the same thing that destroyed Utaya and caused him so much trauma would just.. finish him.
I just think Kabru is a beautifully complex character, I have a lotta thoughts on him and I don't see nearly as many analysis posts for him than I do Laios (despite labru being such a popular ship)
there is no tldr for this post idk how to summarize it. do what you will with this collection of images. have fun. go crazy
fun fact the woman in the bottom left corner is his mother, she is labeled here as "witch"
#dungeon meshi#delicious in dungeon#dunmeshi#kabru#kabru dungeon meshi#kabios#labru#yeah its a long post i dont care. read it#also i only mentioned it briefly but i do think kabru is autistic .#yk that post thats like 'no im not autistic i know all the social cues etc etc etc. hey wait a minute' yeah. that#ok whatever. starts making another laios post
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Laios' stats.
Ohmygod it really is that meme. Laios would be too powerful. Social skills nerfed by autism.
(from the dungeon meshi world guide)
#dungeon meshi spoilers#laios touden#laios dungeon meshi#dungeon meshi#autism#actually autistic#autism meme
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"Marcille hates all of Laios' freak traits but loves them in Falin" is honestly a really good joke but... you guys do know it's a joke right?
It's such a funny one I honestly find it impossible to get mad at even when people mistake it for an actual truth about the characters but JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR
THIS is how marcille reacts when Falin is predictably just as enthusiastic about eating monsters as her brother was.
That is not the face of a woman who thinks this trait is lovely and endearing as long as it's exhibited by the girl she loves. That is the face of a woman who is taking 7d8 psychic damage and yet knows deep in her heart she won't like Falin any less for it.
The way young Marcille reacts to Falin eating berries Marcille can't recognize but Falin knows are safe is pretty similar to how she reacts to eating monsters years later, albeit with more fear than disgust. The difference in her relationships with Laios and Falin isn't just that she's attracted to Falin, it's because the Touden siblings, while similar, are in fact different people. Not just genderswaps of each other.
Also, I think you all already know this, but just to say it: she doesn't actually hate Laios for any of his freak tendencies either. He's one of her best friends. She's just a lot quicker to be outwardly exasperated with him while she's quieter about it with Falin.
#dungeon meshi#falin touden#laios touden#marcille donato#dungeon meshi meta#again I cannot be mad at fanon jokes when they're actually funny#and also marcille absolutely DOES have different standards for the touden siblings#i'd argue the way she more easily argue with laios than falin is a) because falin is better at EXPLAINING her autistic swag#so after the initial freakout marcille can calm down. laios does NOT know how to do this#and b) because she DOES idealize falin. And so she takes this stuff in a 'well not even my beautiful angel darling can be perfect' way#though in the end their autistic swag is also a big part of what she appreciates in both of them#in different ways as i said but the oddities are part of why she's close with both of them!! that doesn't change the exasperation though!
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Come watch dungeon meshi we have a (seemingly) typical white autistic man who doesn't understand social norms, an autistic man of colour who overcompensates for social deficits by being too good at social norms (while still struggling socially), and we even have the "grew up autistic but also Asian so I have a very good understanding of cultural and social norms but I still struggle socially" variety of autistic man.
#this post lacks a great deal of nuance obviously#but seriously i love how toshiro/shuro kabru and laios are all so clearly autistic just in very different ways#you dont get to see that often in media#and Ryoko Kui's writing is really good so she's able to explore the dynamic in pretty interesting ways#dungeon meshi#laios touden#shuro dungeon meshi#toshiro nakamoto#shuro dunmeshi#dunmeshi#kabru of utaya#kabru dungeon meshi#delicious in dungeon#kabru
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laios: I'm gonna survive through my trek down the dungeon to save my sister by indulging in my violently intense interest of eating monsters I'm sure that will garner me no enemies whatsoever
laios 10 minutes later after failing 13 social quick time events in quick succession:
#dungeon meshi#it's so funny how laios is ON SIGHT for so many people#they hated my boy for his autistic swag and his absolute shamelessness when it comes to voring monsters
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Oh god, this chapter is hurting me.... the adhd/autism feeling of not realizing that you're upsetting and annoying the people around you until they treat you like you're a bad guy for doing it.... aaaaaaa
#dungeon meshi#delicious in dungeon#dungeon meshi spoilers#delicious in dungeon spoilers#Laius thorden#Laius is so autistic coded and this just.... aaaaaa#shuro#dungeon meshi shuro#laios touden#laios dungeon meshi#laios thorden#Rowan reads dungeon meshi
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this line hits a lot harder especially when you view laios as having autism...
#aquila talks#dungeon meshi#delicious in dungeon#laios touden#laios dungeon meshi#dungeon meshi spoilers#never have i come across another character with this much ''omg hes literally me'' energies oof#and chilchuck was making a fair point!! but an autistic person hearing that is automatically gonna go ''... oh''
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*GRABBING YOU* HEY. HEY LOOK AT ME. SHURO DOESN'T HATE LAIOS FOR THE SAME THINGS HE LOVES FALIN FOR OKAY? OKAY? IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME YOU KNOW THAT ALRIGHT. IT'S IMPORTANT YOU KNOW LAIOS AND FALIN AREN'T THE SAME JUST GENDER SWAPPED ALRIGHT? Shuro hates (hates a strong word for it honestly but it's the simplest to use) Laios because he himself was raised to know and rely on subtle social cues and etiquettes that Laios doesn't pick up on while doing the opposite: being very outspoken and unknowingly making things awkward in some situations. THATS WHAT SHURO HATES. We see that Falin while still very weird in her own right is much more conscious of peoples feelings and social cues which Shuro appreciates.
SHURO DOESN'T HATE LAIOS FOR LIKING MONSTERS AND WEIRD THINGS AND LOVE FALIN FOR THE SAME HE HATES LAIOS BECAUSE HE DOESN'T RECOGNIZE THE ONLY WAY SHURO KNOWS HOW TO COMMUNICATE BOUNDARIES AND SHURO IS BAFFLED BY IT CONSTANTLY.
#listen Shuro is NOT my favorite but I will not stand for this slander#or the fact I see some people (maybe unknowingly) treat laios and falin as virtually the same just different gender in these conversions#They are still both very autistic just like in different fonts#dungeon meshi#dungeon meshi shuro#dungeon meshi laios#dungeon meshi falin
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How long do yall think its gonna take the anime only dungeon meshi fans to realize that not only is marcille not the fanservice character, but that several different characters think shes outright ugly/unsettling and that senshi is canonically so hot to half-foots that chilchuck refuses to introduce him to his daughters?
#dungeon meshi#dungeon meshi spoilers#i guess we have to tag this now??#marcille donato#senshi dungeon meshi#i still think laios is very attractive but im aroace and an autistic bio major so…#aroace but would risk it for an earnest biology man
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