#Fate vs. Free Will
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X Files: Fate or Free Will -- I would LOVE to hear your thoughts on that, I have been thinking about that a lot lately myself. One of the most interesting things.
I believe the show as written by Chris Carter is about fate-- Mulder and Scully, the inevitability of their quest, the battle that is ever greater and greater, bigger and bigger. The mytharc established that in Paper Clip, and carried it up through Essence and Existence (which: love S8, hate how the mytharc developed/fell apart) and beyond.
And I believe the show as discussed in MOTW episodes is about freewill: Mulder and Scully choose each other (despite being fated to be together, platonically or romantically), they choose the quest, they choose between right and wrong in their day-to-day actions, cases, lives, etc.
The longer the OG mytharc ran, the more disconnect I found between these two messages. On the one hand, CC continued talking fate through either CSM or Mulder's mouth; on the other, Mulder rejects fate in Monday while CSM still spouts it whenever he shows up. Fate became a tool not to help the heroes-- the villains can't win ala Jeremiah Smith's soliloquy in Talitha Cumi-- but as a suppression of choice and hope (started in Biogenesis, retuned in Requiem, vanquished in Season 8, resurfaced to destroy everything in Season 9, etc.)
Essence particularly focuses in on Chris's vision, with Mulder spouting that the aliens fear Scully's baby "proves the existence of God." Stupidity of that statement aside, Chris then-- in a way-- tries to end the season on a note that bridges both viewpoints: William wasn't what the aliens expected but "that doesn't make him any less of a miracle, does it?" Then S9 destroys the middle ground with William's adoption to buffalo country and Mulder and Scully running from the law on their dark, tortured, fated quest.
I think the greatest example of this philosophy is the Biogenesis-The Sixth Extinction arc: really, what was the purpose of that arc? To give Mulder godlike powers, to force Scully to face a Truth greater than her beliefs, and to push them back together with knowledge about "the bigger picture", stronger than ever, on their fated mission together. However, David Duchovny salvaged it: he focused in on Mulder's choices: the ones Mulder suppresses in his vision, the one that his conscience (Scully) pushes him towards, the one he makes at the end by supporting Scully's fragile faith and by putting aside the "bigger" implications to focus on them.
I posit the show is built on a fate the characters continually break: Mulder and Scully were fated to fight the forces that be, but they choose each other over "the truth" or "the answer to everything"-- in fact, they become each other's answer to everything. Chris Carter script believes in fate and bad things happening to good people; but he eagerly gives space for his writers to give Samantha a choice to become starlight, Scully a choice to save and accept her daughter's death, a choice for Mulder to live another life in another world but choose his own, etc.
When there isn't freewill, CC's characters become lost in allegory and metaphor; and when there isn't fate, Mulder and Scully's choices lose the searing potency that draws audiences into their decisions and actions decades later.
Overall, it's a balancing game, I think.
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just because you know you're playing a game doesn't mean you don't choose your moves.
Lost 3x08 "Flashes Before Your Eyes" / Greater Boston Episode 3: "Professional Prognostication" / Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency 2x01 "Space Rabbit" / Lost 3x05 "The Cost of Living" / "Road to Hell (Reprise)", Hadestown / Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency 2x03 "Two Broken Fingers" / H of H Playbook, Anne Carson / Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. 7x04 "Out of the Past" / Lost 1x05 "White Rabbit"
#fate vs. free will#lost#dghda#greater boston#hadestown#web weaving#no one spoil dghda s2 for me i haven't finished it yet#this is so incredibly niche but idc. it's important to me
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Turtle Takedown Teamwork.
[First] Prev <–-> Next
#poorly drawn mdzs#mdzs#wei wuxian#lan wangji#tulu xuanwu#Something about changing the action sequence to something gentle is hilarious to me.#The lesson here is “Be nice to turtles. They are gentle creatures. And many are very endangered.”#don't get me wrong here; I love this scene a lot. LWJ's string technique is one of my favoyrite things.#We do get a fair amount of LWJ fighting but I always loved how the theme of strings comes into play.#There is actually a lot to unpack with LWJ being associate with 'strings'.#The musicianship: Of dedication and rigor in one's practice.#The tension between following along a path or composing your own way forwards (playing what has been written vs composing)#A string is a tightly coiled/taunt entity; The same tension that makes it sing so beautifully can be it's downfall if pushed too hard.#And as a non-musical string - something that binds. Be it to his sect and family or how he binds his fate to WWX -#LWJ cannot exist without his binds. It is not something which ties him down though. It keeps him together.#And he himself *is* a bind. He 'ties wwx down' in ways that are initially negatively viewed ('come to gusu' - feels like: come be trapped)#But later it is shown how (despite being introduced as a free spirit) WWX truly wants to be bound to something and someone.#Marriage is a bind he wants. He wants to be tied and grounded by LWJ.#It's starting to sound like innuendo. Let's call his fondness for being literally tied up smart thematic writing.#Finally. Sex scenes that are important to the plot and characters
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arthur (prince of camelot) still has to study under a tutor bc yknow uther wants him to be very intelligent before becoming king or something bc its super important idk idc anyways merlin is doing chores in his chambers while arthur is squinting at a book and merlin eventually caves and asks him what he’s reading and arthur gruffly explains that its a collection of stories from greece that make absolutely no sense so merlin asks him to read them outloud to him. arthur of course teases him and calls him an idiot and asks how he could possibly help but does as he’s asked and reads the stories to merlin as he does his chores. merlin (being crushed under the weight of destiny and tormented by the prophecies that kilgharrah spews) understands the stories almost immediately and gets all excited and starts rambling about them with arthur. arthur is glad to have someone who understands so he can give something that reflects a hint of understanding to his tutor who accepts it and moves onto the next unit of education.
the thing is, arthur finds more stories in camelot’s library and brings them up to his room to read them aloud to merlin under the guise of completing his studies but really he just wants to watch as merlin’s eyes gleam when he understands whats happening and listen to him ramble on and on about them bc he’s gay. the stories stick with merlin though and he realizes that they’re cautionary tales, that the heroes who were told too much of their future doomed themself to fulfill them - that them fighting the prophecies led to their completion. merlin takes it to heart and gives a big “fuck you” to kilgharrah before forging his own fate and helping morgana with her magic and handing out an olive branch to mordred and now everyone can live happily and peacefully in an albion teeming with magic.
#merlin and arthur are of course at each others side in the end#merlin is curled up with arthur in their bed and says a silent thank you to his king for saving him#arthur returns the sentiment wholeheartedly#bbc merlin#merlin emrys#arthur pendragon#merthur#fic idea#fanfic#fanfiction#headcanon#hc#head canon#merthur prompt#i have my own hc of fate vs destiny in bbc merlin and i like to incorporate that into everything i write#but then i realize that not everyone thinks that way lmao#i like to think that destiny is unavoidable. merlin and arthur are destined to form albion and lead it together#i think fate is like a fragile version of destiny#i think most people are tied to fate and will follow what they are fated to do unless those who arent tied down by fate change course#like i hc that seers are able to see the potential future of what is to happen should they not interfere#and the goddess leaves it up to them to choose. so like seers arent tied down by fate and can change the course of history#since merlin is literally magic incarnate i also think he isnt tied down by fate and can act to change things#kilgharrah told merlin the prophecy that would result in the dragon getting free and ending the pendragon line#and since merlin never got close w like any druids or magic users. no one told him the inner workings of fate vs destiny#so he listened to the dragons warnings dooming him to fulfill the prophecy that brought about one of the worst possible futures#bc the dragon was salty about his whole species being eradicated by uther and vowed to destroy the pendragon line#omg im ranting okay post over thank you and good night
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Love vs. Fate
ACOTAR foreshadowed the whole love triangle with this
Which I believe is the background for this part of this interview - where sure, Sarah may try to play things off:
But I find that interesting, because TOG's ending clearly said this (Kingdom of Ash, Ch.98)
And CC's ending said this (House of Flame and Shadow, Ch. 98)
So isn't it funny that all of SJM's books are all about defying Gods, Odds, and Fate through acts of True Love, aaaand people still think that Elain, Azriel, AND Lucien are just going to do what everyone and that corrupted Cauldron expects and tells them to do in the end because "Sarah's a fated mates author", and because that's what they've been doing their whole lives prior to encountering each other?
Can't people connect the dots and see the real pattern of her books? Because it's pretty frickin' obvious to me.
"What if the Cauldron was wrong?" is just the beginning of fighting for that HEA.
And I am sorry, not sorry, because as of ACOFAS, ACOSF, and the bonus chapters, there's not a single hint of Elain wanting to bridge the gap with her Cauldron-given mate... But rather a lot of her initiating the bridging of a gap between her and a certain Shadowsinger/Spymaster who confirms in his very own POV that he has feelings for her, but has been trying to stay away because he struggles with feelings of unworthiness - especially because a damned Cauldron gave her to another on top of that.
So if Elain's choosing anyone, it won't be because of any mating bond. No, Elain...
I may be primarily pro Elriel but I'm also pro-Lucien, so I want him to be happy too. I just think he deserves someone who readily wants and chooses him back, mating bond or not... So I am pretty sure he's asking the very same questions Az is asking. Sure, Elucien can still happen -there's just going to have to be a great deal of retconning, including ignoring all the build-up and crumbs Sarah has scattered throughout her books to make it feel unforced. But just like with Rhys' or Tamlin's etc. parents, not everyone accepting their mating bond is going to guarantee a HEA. And once Lucien finds out about his true parentage and the truth about the Cauldron, now that he's an exile with no High Lord to submit to... I'm pretty sure he's going to start finally fighting about what he truly thinks is right and his own freedom to choose and to love - something he didn't get to do for Jesminda. And no, it wouldn't be through a Blood Duel for a mate that was "thrown at him".
So there's no need for "I just want ______ to be happy" or "_____ doesn't deserve ______." Because none of these 3 are going to end up without a HEA in an SJM book where a character can barely stay dead for longer than 3 minutes.
#it's about LOVE not Fate#this has been hiding in my drafts for who knows how long and I dunno why I never published it#Choice vs Cauldron#choice > bonds#free will vs fate#pro elriel#elriel endgame#maasverse#pro elain archeron#foreshadowing#my messy thoughts#elain x azriel#elriel#elriel supremacy#elain archeron#sjm books#sjm universe
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Iconique
#'can't live without each other' and 'fated to swim together' the dichotomy of this bitch 😂😂#'he means everything to me' vs 'this is a sports anime and we are the protagonists so we gotta interact I GUESS'#so funny#the dichotomy of having two best friends literally be like that#one is always like. you are my whole heart. and the other is like. we are friends bc of circumstances only#free!#nanase haruka#haruka nanase#makoto tachibana#tachibana makoto#rin matsuoka#matsuoka rin#free! the final stroke#fee talks#also the difference between that and 'i want to swim by your side' sigh they really went OFF with this page#sourin#yamazaki sousuke#sousuke yamazaki
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I Know Where I'm Going
Aziraphale's Edinburgh Journey: Part 5
Episode 3 of S2 is named after a black-and-white 1945 Powell and Pressburger film, which is in turn named after an old Scottish folk song. It's a delightful film, which I'll discuss further below the cut, that strides headlong into the theme of fate vs free will, among other things.
This is the last major piece we need to tie things together, after starting this journey with The Clue in Episode 2, which lead Aziraphale to make the journey to Edinburgh in the first place.
Fate vs Free Will
I Know Where I'm Going, both the film and S2E3, is about not ending up where you expected to be, so this how Aziraphale went expecting to find the answer to one question, but found the answer to an unexpected question instead. So part of the problem we have is that while we end up getting the answers to two questions, one expected and one unexpected, I feel people really aren't recognizing the questions that raise them in the first place.
Not making sense? Let me describe the film.
Joan is a confident young (25yo) lady on her way to the (fictitious) Ilse of Kiloran to marry a rich older industrialist. This involves a journey by train then several ferries to the ultimate destination. However she gets stuck on the Isle of Mull, the penultimate stop, as the weather turns, and has to stay the night, then several days, as a bad gale blows.
She meets a fellow traveller, Torquill McNeil, a naval officer home on leave, who invites her up to one of the local mansions. Joan meets some of the delightful and slightly eccentric locals (the pack of goofy, soft wolf hounds of the Lady of the house, Catriona Potts, are a highlight of the film, imo) including a retired colonel who's into falconry who keeps going on about a lost golden eagle that he's training. (The eagle is a metaphor for Torquill, it turns out.)
We find out Torquill is actually the Laird of Kiloran, and he is renting out Kiloran to Joan's husband-to-be for money while he's off in the navy seeing the world. Torquill knows all the locals, and the locals know him, and they are all kind of bound together as one big happy family, in a way.
The next morning Torquill takes Joan to the hotel in another village to talk to her fiance via radio, as they still can't get to the other island. The fiance (who we never see) recommends visiting another house nearby. She does, and we find out they are also rich from new money, and care nothing about the locals and the local environment. And this is where we start learning there is a bit of divide between the old and the new, the rural out door life that is connected to the land, and the new wealth that cuts itself off from its surroundings and other people. And Joan is going to be a part of that - in her dream on the train, the same dream that gives us the tartan clad hills, she marries a corporation, not a person - so impersonal!
Joan is desperate to get across to Kiloran (she knows where she's going! She thinks...) After repeatedly bumping into Torquill over the next couple of days and it becoming evident there are feelings growing between them, she bribes a young local boatman to take her across to her fiance and expected marriage on Kiloran to escape this, even though the gale is still blowing strong. Torquill finds out at the last minute, and jumps into the boat with them. They get caught in a squall, and the motor cuts out. The tide drags them towards the infamous local whirlpool, and they only just escape due to Torquill's expertise.
Joan is chastened when they return to safety. That was the point of not risking the crossing in the gale in the first place, explains Torquill. They could have sent a rescue boat out if they got into trouble, but it puts more than just the rescuers at risk, it puts their families at risk, and then that extends to the whole island. Doesn't she see how the whole island is interconnected? She finally realizes how selfish she has been.
The next day dawns brightly, and the gale has finally blown out - the sea is a calm and a ferry crossing will be no trouble today. The colonel finally catches up with his golden eagle, and brings it home to roost.
Joan and Torquill say their farewells on the road, and there's a Great Big Kiss before they part and go their separate ways.
Torquill walks past the ruined castle that he is fated to be cursed if he enters as Laird of Kiloran. But he decides to risk it, and he goes in and explores the ruins, and we hear the whole story of the curse and finds that it isn't such a bad curse after all - in a metaphorical way! The next thing he hears is bagpipes - it's Joan returning up the road with the pipers that were supposed to be at her wedding. She has decided she wasn't going where she thought she was going after all and has come back to be with Torquill, her new love.
That's the basics of the story, but if you would like to watch it, I would recommend you do, as there is a lot more in it than that.
(I did watch "A Matter of Life and Death/Stairway to Heaven" before finishing this post, seeing as the book that features in it also appears in S2xE3, which is the main episode around the trip to Edinburgh, but more in relation to Gabriel's situation I think. It also deals with a character trying to escape their intended fate, but they do so by attending a formal trial and pleading their case. Other ops have reviewed the film here and here if you want to find out a bit more. I wasn't as impressed with that film, sorry to say, but I will probably watch it again to reflect on certain features and points in it relevant to GO, there is a lot. And to work out which minor character a very young Sir Richard Attenborough was playing!)
Lunatic Behaviour and Lethal Traps
Some ops have pointed out that Elspeth and Wee Morag act as parallel characters to Crowley and Aziraphale. While some would argue there are various ways to interpret this, the music indicates that Elspeth aligns with Crowley and Wee Morag with Aziraphale.
Elspeth is the one trying hard to engineer the pair's escape from the poverty trap they are in, even if it is by nefarious means. Wee Morag is the one scandalised by Elspeth's illicit actions, and concerned about doing right by Heaven. Crowley takes up Elspeth's side of the argument against Aziraphale, that its not as easy to escape poverty as one thinks (i.e. just working hard will fix things) but he also tries to warn Wee Morag that things don't work the way she thinks they do in the afterlife either.
So what's the price one pays for going down the path of body snatching as an escape from poverty? You have to get past the lethal traps of the grave guns that have been set, by not tripping the wires. And again, its the wealthy privileged ones that have the advantage.
Acting in haste was a disaster. They got split up, never to see one another again. One more body may have got them out of short term trouble, but what about the long term?
Escape is a nice dream, but a harsh reality.
Elspeth was going to use the laudanum as another form of easy escape, until Crowley prevented it, then acted as a daemonium ex machina to assist her in escaping properly good, using Aziraphale's money, as that was really the only way she was going to escape for good.*
Joan tried to escape Torquill in I Know Where I'm Going, but only cast herself and her companions into danger. If she had been more patient and less selfish, she might have had everything she wanted without suffering on the way. But that wouldn't have made as good a story then, would it? And she wouldn't have gotten to know Torquill and fallen for him, either.
If Aziraphale ran away to Alpha Centauri with Crowley, like Crowley had been urging in the present, would they be free? The inference is its unlikely, that they wouldn't be able to escape their own "poverty trap," the alarms would be raised, and the trouble they caused would be too deep to pull themselves out of. Luck hasn't been on their side so far.
The View from Above
By now we should be alert to characters trying to avoid their fate, or perhaps ending up in places they weren't intending to. Fate has a weird way of biting you on the backside, as the trope goes.
Giant Crowley did end up somewhere he wasn't intending to be, and perhaps accidentally ended up playing God and deciding Elspeth's fate. There are mentions of angels as tall as mountains, or tall as the sky in the Bible, so him ordering Aziraphale to give all his money to Elspeth while looking down at them shouldn't really be out of place for those familiar with the book. Crowley also took Elspeth's fate into his own hands when he snatched the laudanum away from her and drank it down, an action akin to absolving her of her sins.
Aziraphale also tried to change Elspeth's and Wee Morag's fate, by changing his mind about the morality of the body snatching. That didn't end up the way he hoped or expected, either.
Mr Dalrymple was of aware of two fates he could meet, he just didn't know which one it would be at the time he was s talking to Aziraphale and Crowley.
DALRYMPLE: I either end up with a knighthood or condemned as a resurrectionist and hanging from a rope.
Sadly, we find out through Aziraphale reading the pamphlet he picked up outside the pub that it was along the lines of the second one - he might not have been actually condemned for a crime, but he condemned his own conscience and then his soul.
If you would like a contrast to this, come back to S1xE2, where we approach a young Newton Pulsifer in his bedroom, about to short out the electrical works for his whole neighbourhood yet again. God is narrating at this point, and the camera view pans down from the sky...and bumps with a visible jolt and audible noise into the window frame of his bedroom. (I wasn't able to find a GIF for this.)
Newt is a Crowley-parallel, they are both on the side of free will and choosing one's destiny. This is not a place for God, the decider of Fate, to trespass. There will be no crossing of this threshold, Frances!
I would just like to take a step back here to Part 4: Judgement Day, if I may, and reconsider this view of the missing cross in the statue of Gabriel's arms:
This is the only point of view that we don't see the cross from. It's still seen from between Gabriel's and Beelzebub's shoulders, and Crowley stills see it in 1826, so it's not invisible to demons.
So I would like to ask, could the missing cross view be God's point of view?
The viewpoint is similar to the one in the Job minisode, as seen from where Aziraphale and Crowley are witnessing Job listen to the Almighty speak to him.
So, perhaps if God isn't seeing the cross, they aren't the one who has so-called Ineffable Plans for the Second Coming in mind.
Yeah, so there's the Great Plan, and the Ineffable Plan, but are they the same plan...and who is pushing so hard for the Great Plan to come to completion, then? Not Gabriel or Beelzebub, that's for sure.
66 Goat Gate
Just before we attempt to wrap things up, we should have a look at the address on the Clue, but it doesn't really tell us anything we don't already know.
We know the address of the pub in Edinburgh appears in two places, once on the record single Maggie gives to Aziraphale and once on the matchbox that held the fly. There is a difference in the way they are written, with an comma on the record, and also Goat Gate written as two words, whereas it is one word on the matchbox.
Gate was old name for a road, so one interpretation could be that it was hinting at a demon road, or an underground road (demons live in Hell, which is underground, and demons are also associated with goats) and that ties in with the resurrection and Judgement Day theme we have going on, and perhaps should alert us to the presence of at least one demon being involved with Gabriel. On the other side, a goatgate is a relatively modern term for someone who talks a load of shite, so to speak. If we use Strong's Concordance to add the 66 to it, it becomes a wild or fierce mouth. Which kind of suits the Leviathan referenced in the verse from the Book of Job. The first version then looks like a wild underground road to Hell on the way to the Second Coming (the Harrowing of Hell in the Passion, anyone?) Don't forget the number 6 is associated with Hell as well.
Piecing the Elephant Together
There is a famous parable about a group of blind men meeting an elephant for the first time. They each go up and touch a different part of the huge beast, and subsequently give a different description for each part of it, but collectively they can't describe it properly as a whole.
That's kind of how we tend to look at Good Omens - its such a huge, complicated beast of a story, with each of us picking out one strand to analyze that might be our specialty, but we don't necessarily have all the other pieces nearby to aid our understanding as to why it was placed there or what it is doing and how that aids the purpose of the story.
To sum things up:
Aziraphale's trip to Edinburgh in the Bentley is a parallel to Crowley and Muriel going to Heaven together to find out about Gabriel, but Aziraphale is actually going to Edinburgh to find out about Beelzebub (he just doesn't realize it.)
Gabriel was there in the pub, and met with a "Mason" in a regular black-coloured suit that the barman was used to seeing Masons dressed in, because he noted that Gabriel's light grey suit was different.
We are shown many clues to the looming Second Coming
We see parallel scenes to S1, which at the same time sets upparallels for S3, which are about starting Armageddon. Again.
We also gain a lot of interlinked information for other parts of S2, and parts that link up with S1 and maybe S3, such as:
Aziraphale's main parallel in S2 is Beelzebub, with Maggie a parallel blend of the two of them.
Mr Dalrymple shows us that something needs to be cut out to save the innocent, but we also need to learn what it is before we can do that.
Elspeth and Wee Morag show us that running away is not as simple an option as it seems, its more a fatal trap than anything.
The Masonic symbols appearing in S2 remind us that life and death is a cycle, but also sometimes thoughts need to be turned around.
Aziraphale thought he knew where he was going, but he didn't really; fate gave him answers that he wasn't expecting. Did he ask the right questions?
There is not just a single purpose for Aziraphale to go to Edinburgh, there were several.
I also think Aziraphale didn't have enough time to stop and think about it, or talk it through with Crowley. They both had to leap from one thing to another until it was too late.
I was going to finish this off with that quote about history repeating itself until you learn from your mistakes or something, but then I found this one:
*Slaps this beast on the backside to move it along so it can go roam free in the wilderness.*
*This is actually something that is well researched but not well known, and is called the Success Paradox. You can watch a good explanation of it by one of my favourite science vloggers Veratisium here. Women are probably most aware of it intuitively, because of inherit sexism in our patriarchal society, but it also exists in the attitude "if you work hard you can make anything happen." What most people don't realize is how much luck factors into their success. Lucky they were born into a wealthy family. Lucky they met the right person on the right day. Lucky they were chosen over another etc. Before you argue otherwise, do stop and think about it.
The other posts in this series can be found here:
Part 1: Detective Aziraphale
Part 2: Aziraphale-Beelzebub Parallels
Part 3: Stocktaking in the Basement
Part 4: Judgement Day
#good omens#good omens 2#good omens meta#i know where i'm going#fate vs free will#powell and pressburger
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(YOUTUBE LINK)
Hey guys they let me into the s5 writers room
#I PLAY WITH MY FAVORITE SHOWS LIKE DOLLS#it. okay so the audio/dialogue isn't like 100% perfect but that's not the POINT#THE POINT IS I HAD FUN#AND ALSO. FATE VS FREEWILL#anyways#worked on this for like#a week straight#Honestly I've been chipping away at 3 animatics at the same time#this is the shortest of them since the other two are to like. songs#oh wait should I explain the ''plot'' of this?#ummmm think 2x08 and 2x09#think of this as like. Callum's inner ''mindscape'' so to speak#me @ the end: NEWS FLASH. IT WAS RAYLLUM THE WHOLE TIME#felt wrong to not include rayla in some way#she's like how callum is gonna break free from mind control in the show#God this is the MOST self indulgent thing I've made in a while#tdp#the dragon prince#tdp callum#tdp rayla#tdp ezran#tdp art#tdp fanart#tdp animatic#the dragon prince art#art#my art#tw flashing#cw flashing#teehee I sit in my silly little corner and point out MK and Callum parallels.
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I have feelings about this...
Until Dawn is a game where YOUR CHOICES AFFECT THE STORY. That is the core of the game. I don't like the idea of the movie definitively saying 'these are the canon choices', but then again, maybe it's one path...
The story is also tailored to the player in a way. Like, if you say you're scared of needles in the segment with Dr Hill, the killer will chase you with a syringe instead of a tank of gas. They're probably not going to be able to adapt that, which is a damn shame...
There's something unique about Until Dawn that I don't really want lost in adaptation.
There's also the issues with the monsters in the game being of Native American origins. I cant speak for how accurate or respectfully they've been represented in the original game as im not Native American (from what I've gathered, their appearance is better than some other uses, but thats about it), but if they're going to use them, it's better done with someone from the Cree tribe (the tribe used in the game, if i remember correctly) at the helm. Also, please cast someone of Native American descent as Jack Fiddler.
So yeah, I really love the game but it is a game which needs to be adapted with respect and sensitivity.
#also for the love of all that is good#please treat Josh's character with RESPECT#he deserved a much better fate than the one he got#if anyone else wants to add anything them please feel free to do so#until dawn#supermassive games#i dunno what else to tag#rhi's rambles#i know that these issues are drastically different in importance#like#native american representation#vs choosing your story#but those were the two things i could come up with#i would also talk about josh#but i think ive rambled enough for now
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sorry im thinking about jesus christ superstar and the theme of fate vs free will. cuz like, both jesus and judas were fighting against their "role" in the "story" the whole time, like look at this from The Last Supper
(ID in Alt)
judas follows the plan because jesus gives him reason to. judas does not want to Betray jesus, and he thinks he's doing the right thing, but he also loves jesus and doesnt want to see him get hurt, like in the whole of Could We Start Again Please? he keeps asking for jesus to get up and get back to him. and jesus in Gethsemane keeps asking god for a reason to continue the Plan, like what would've happened if they had both said "no i won't do it"? the whole point is that we'll never know because this is how it had to happen. jesus christ superstar can't change the story, can't change the outcome, even though it questions the legitimacy of the supposed choices that everyone made. the underlying debate is in every character and in every song. its making me crazy
idk where im going with this i just needed to get it out of my system, god but do i love themes of fate vs free will
#jesus christ superstar#jcs#jcs musical#own post#fate vs free will#everyone needs to go watch jesus christ superstar#im so normal about this
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it's unfortunate that i already know gabriel defoe ends up dying 4 separate times because i'm really enjoying his scenes with maplewood
#just let them hang out drinking and taking about fate vs free will!#i hope he is not evil i'm pretty sure the group he's working with aren't actually terrorists#pie says stuff#pie watches bodies netflix#bodies netflix
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Having a moment rn
Also on a more general note:
#honkai impact 3rd#hi3 aponia#hi3 kalpas#hi3 vill v#hi3 flamechasers#meme#thinking about the flame chasers makes me want to bite things but these 3 in particular...#aponia is an incredibly interesting and complex character morality/ethics-wise + i love her role in the elysium everlasting arc#both in the er ch3 with the ''predetermined fate vs free will'' thing and in the story part being the ''human controller'' of the realm#(shes also my best built character and long-time main but thats not what im talking about)#kalpas. at first you think hes only ''the angry destructive one'' but then you find out more about him and his interpersonal relationships#and it just hits you how much he cares. him dying to prove his best friends innocence. his last convo w/ aponia. everything abt him + emile#oughhhh#AND VILLV!! At first i didnt pay her much attention but her arc in ch30 + getting to see her inner workings (literally and figuratively)#changed that completely. original vill-v my beloved#i could also go on and on about them and many other fcs (kosma griseo pardo etc etc) but ill stop now. enjoy the memes#from the sea of queue-anta#<- look i have a funny queue tag now
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thinking about that one scene in homestuck where terezi flips a coin on whether or not she would kill vriska. and there were only 2 possible timelines resulting from that. and the coin landed the same way both times so the real timeline split wasn’t in the way the coin landed but whether terezi chose to break her word and kill her friend for the greater good or let a murderer escape justice. what the FUCK was that!!!
#free will vs fate#the idea that fate doesn’t matter. in the end the coin will always land the same way.#you can’t leave it up to fate you still have to choose#AND THEY WERE LIKE. 14#homestuck
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I remember there being a post somewhere about Freddy and his relationship with the ocean, how it took all of his relatives from him one by one and almost took him, too. Just a thought, but do you think that there's a chance Poseidon or some other ocean God had a hand in this, knowing who Freddy would become in the future. I'm just saying, with Zeus as one of the people who grants your powers, a lot of gods are going to be upset with that person, simply because of Zeus's long list of enemies.
Just thought it'd be interesting to see how the other gods would interact with the shazamily and what they think about them, mortals having powers beyond their imagination and somehow being more worthy than them.
Would also love to write a fic one day where Freddy joins Aquaman on a mission and has problems with the ocean, inevitably learning some unexpected lore and frightening truths
Also, another thought I had was what if all of the shazamily kids were orphans because the gods wanted them punished for the future powers they were going to have bestowed upon them. What seemed like a coincidence could actually have been something more dark
I remember that post! It's so interesting and I think Freddy’s relationship with the sea and the trauma it caused him should be explored more (especially if we're including his brother Kit).
Canonically the gods are pretty hands off in modern day. But a reinterpretation of canon in which they are unseen puppeteers in daily life and reward or punish people based off of age old grudges? I can totally get behind that. It doesn't contradict canon but simply recontextualizes it in a way that centers the gods. Poseidon killing the freemans because of what Freddy will someday mean to Zeus as one of his champions is such a cool take (add in Kit and his connection to the realm of the dead and he has reason to hate both of the brothers).
The whole family being orphaned because of the gods/fate/some divine force is such an interesting concept. I've seen people explore the idea that Billy’s hardships in life were predetermined as a test to see if his heart was pure, but I don't think I've ever seen it with the whole family. It's awful to think about the gods hurting them all because of their destiny, but it's also so interesting because it implies that the whole family was destined to be heroes not just Billy. Lots to think about and unpack there.
As always I love the ideas you bring to me!
#ask me whatever you want y'all#billy batson#shazam#dc captain marvel#freddy freeman#kit freeman#the gods and their tempers#im always so invested in fate vs free will in stories#like i usually think of the Shazamily getting powers as a choice that flys in the face of fate#but the idea that they were always meant to be heroes is also so appealing
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Hello, may I bother you for a bit?
This is something regarding Lord Liu Kang. At the beginning of the story mode, he's narrating that he gave everyone free will but later in the story mode, Geras says that Liu Kang forged everyone's destinies and that Shang Tsung and Quan Chi were defying theirs.
Which means that Shang Tsung was destined to live in poverty, Quan Chi was destined to grueling work in the mines and Shao was born sickly child if it weren't for his father's program that shaped him into the warrior he is now.
Which leads me to believe he is deliberately punishing them for things they did not do, all because of the memories of his mortal life.
In one of the intros between Shang Tsung and Geras, it is implied that Shang Tsung also had a horrible childhood.
What do you think?
Hello there and you do not bother me at all!
The destiny vs free will is one of the universal questions that humanity has tried to solve for ages and the answer for sure will vary from one person to another, always colored by religion (or lack of therefor) and culture each of us is part of. However, within Liu Kang’s timeline, I strongly believe destiny and free will aren’t mutually exclusive, because both terms refer to different aspects of a mortal's life.
When Liu Kang says he crafted for each person's destiny, it does not mean there is one and only one script to how things and people’s reaction will play out while he is gonna pretend to be surprised by the turn of events and having fun in the middle of a crisis invented out of boredom eons ago.
What Liu Kang decided for each character is the setting that no one has choice over and designed role to play - Raiden is destined to be current Earthrealm Champion; Bi-Han, Kuai Liang and Tomas are destined to be Lin Kuei; Mileena is destined to rule Edenia; Shao is destined to serve loyalty to Queen Sindel; Shang Tsung is destined to not have any power whatsoever. None of them must like the circumstances they were born into nor the role bestowed upon them or faced adversity on the way, however how they will use the given time and live their life is greatly up to them.
Raiden accepted Liu Kang’s training and worked hard to earn the right to represent Earthrealm in the Tournament - if he didn’t dedicate himself to the task, Kung Lao, Johnny or Kenshi would take his place. Bi-Han was trained from childhood to protect Earthrealm but he ultimately rejected the traditional role of Lin Kuei and chose to be loyal only to his clan instead to Fire Lord and the realm. In contrast, Kuai Liang decided to honor father’s teaching and aided Liu Kang, even if that meant going against his own brother - as Geras said, the brothers weren’t destined to be enemies yet both make their own choices that from now on will define their relationship. Tomas was forced by circumstances (Keeper of Time’s choice) into Lin Kuei and raised alongside Sub-Zero and Scorpion by their father, however as his BIO states, “Smoke chose to make the Lin Kuei’s mission his own. But as he lacked his brothers' innate supernatural abilities, he set out to master practical magic. Having done so, he now joins them in Earthrealm's defense” and this implies he wasn’t forced to master smoke powers by his adoptive family and that he was not necessarily considered as a material for Lin Kuei warrior but he made a conscious choice to learn magic so he could join his brothers in their duties.
Shao and Shang Tsung jumped on occasion to rise in power for their own gain but no one physically forced them to betray the Royal Family or to inflict cruelty on others. According to Liu Kang’s design, they weren’t meant to have the opportunity to take over Edenia and still they could refuse to aid Damashi’s plot when the offer was made to them or at any given time after that. Shang Tsung managed to create a serum that does not heal Tarkatan sickness yet allows to control the unwanted symptoms, thus giving a sick person a chance for more or less normal life. He could share that with sick people or work with other imperial mages to find cure - and go into edenian history as a great hero and savior - but he chose not to, because his own plans were more important to him, than the well-being of other people.
As a first-born, Mileena inherited the throne after mother’s death yet she still has an option to abdicate if she doesn’t like the burden bestowed on her by fate.
What Liu Kang chose for each character is not set in stone and can be altered by people’s personal choices, for good or bad. Of course, that does not mean he has never interfere with mortal’s life to steer said person on the path he planed, as it is the best seen with Kung Lao and Raiden unknowingly prepared by Madam Bo for their role of Earthrealm Champions and Shang Tsung’s destiny to have as mediocre life as possible. So yes, Liu Kang is not above his personal favoritism and bias and I suspect it is the result of him being mortal turned into god, not the other way around. He definitely threw some serious obstacles on characters’ path, like sickness for child Shao (though did he plan to keep Shao unfit to be warrior and the outcome was changed by Shao’s father refusing to accept son’s sickness/disability or did Shao was born as sick child so the father could teach him discipline and raise him with an iron fist to become a loyal soldier is up to debate) or death of family for Tomas. However some of the hardship characters faced may as well come from their ancestors' choices alone, be it the dark history of Kenshi’s family that joined the Bakuto, a predecessor of the Yakuza for protection or Nitara’s people slowly starving because of their foolish choices (“The Vaeternians thrived, building a great society. But as their comfort grew, so did their shortsightedness. They overfed on Vaeternus’ creatures, disrupting the natural order. They now starve as it collapses.”, Nitara’s BIO)
In all fairness, the line between Liu Kang’s chosen destiny for characters and choices of mortals affecting the outcome may be pretty thin and in result, not so clear to us. Shang Tsung is the best example of this, because story mode alone gives the impression the man was born into poverty and neglect - he is on his own, using deception to survive in harsh outworld wilderness. Him being so miserable and angry makes sense to jump on the first occasion for anything better than what he has; to cling to the one person offering him not only power but also kindness, a praise for any progress made, be it the progress in the realization of plan or Shang Tsung’s own skills and knowledge.
Yet his official BIO
Shang Tsung grew up in Outworld’s backwaters. Too lazy for hard labor and too shifty for honest work, he eked out a living selling quack cures and fake magic. Though his wares were useless, Shang Tsung’s easy charm always closed the deal.
Shang Tsung was resigned to this hardscrabble life. But then one day a mysterious stranger came, promising to make Shang Tsung a powerful sorcerer. Though suspicious of the offer, it was one he couldn’t refuse.
and intro dialogues
Shang Tsung: We're both small-town boys at heart.
Raiden: Then why is yours so infected with evil?
or
Shang Tsung: The squalor I endured as a child-
Geras: Do not lie. I know the truth.
contradict the idea he was destined to live in poverty or even born in an abusive environment solely because of Liu Kang’s spite. The Bio alone put a blame on Shang Tsung’s own laziness and reluctance to do honest work, Geras calls his claim of bad childhood a lie and for all we know, there were plenty of opportunities for Shang Tsung to take and live his life in peace he turned down for whatever petty reason. The source material is so weirdly contradicting that I still don’t have an idea who we should trust on that one and how much it is Liu Kang’s fault and how much Shang Tsung’s own.
(I’m gonna hold my judgment for the Quan Chi’s backstory until NRS will release further official material. Working in mines was always a hard job, however it is not clear to me if he was there by force - as enslavement or penalty? - or was he just born in a rural town where everyone worked as miners and he did what his family and/or all townsfolk did for generations.)
Geras saying Shang Tsung and Quan Chi defy their destinies may simply mean they got hold of power they should not have according to Liu Kang’s original plan. At the same time, Liu Kang specifically said to Sindel that Shang Tsung, Quan Chi and General Shao were groomed to be evil again by powers outside his control, so again, the chosen destinies for those three weren’t set in stone, as Liu Kang’s design could be - and was - altered.
For now, until proven otherwise, I will trust Liu Kang’s words that all characters indeed have free will and their choices matters, as supported by intro dialogues
Sindel: Until your revelation, I felt in control of my destiny.
Liu Kang: You still are, Your Highness.
or
Ashrah: I must know, Geras. Is my future set?
Geras: There is no fate but what you make.
or
Geras: Any advice for when I control the Hourglass?
Liu Kang: Let all people be masters of their fate.
but also for the fact alone that Liu Kang did not use his Titan powers to rewind time and alter the last events for his liking, as in making sure bored Titan Shang Tsung did not corrupt his alternative self and the rest of bunch, like Kronika did countless time before.
We will see how future tie-in material will challenge my outlook at this issue, but for now I'm gonna think that Liu Kang's planed destiny and characters' free will to what do with given time co-exist.
#mortal kombat#my replies#liu kang#free will vs destiny is such an interesting topic for mk newest lore#sure they are things a mortal can't overcome by their own will alone#tarkatan sickness is out there for example#but there is still the choice how one deal with bad and good things#to accept the fate however cruel it seems to be or rebel against it
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i am a proud existentialist media enjoyer
yeah it fucks with my entire worldview but its so fun
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