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cefonteyn · 1 year

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The Kind of Man Eyk Is

Much has been made (rightly) about Maura defending Eyk to Daniel, but look how she talks about him to Franz.

This massive dude, with blood still on his face, has just fomented a successful mutiny - a crime so serious that he'll be executed for it when they reach land. His people physically drag Maura to him, where he dismisses her. She insists she needs to speak to Eyk, and he tells her, "Eyk is not the man you think he is."

Without considering his words for even a second, she mocks him: "No. You're not the man you think you are." She emasculates this strong, grown man: "You're just a little boy toying with power." She's not interested in tact or trying to appease this guy, even though she knows he controls the entire ship and is not beyond physically harming her. She's interested only in protecting Eyk's honor and reputation, even when she knows her words will make no difference to Franz or any of the other mutineers. She's saying it out of principle, because she really believes it.

And Franz's words don't give her any pause at all. Eyk's behavior up to this point has been strange: he's been drinking when she first meets him; he insists on returning to Europe, against the wishes of everyone on the ship; he runs around the ship listening to music only he can hear and claims to have seen his dead daughter; he goes back to the Prometheus and finds something there that makes him act suddenly cold and distant to Maura. Based on everything she knows about Eyk, she should agree with Franz that something is not right with him.

But she doesn't think that, not even for a moment. She rejects Franz's idea out of hand. She doesn't even bother defending or explaining Eyk, like she does to Daniel. She just says to Franz, essentially, "You'll never be the man that Eyk is." That suggests to me that, at some subconscious level, Maura knows Eyk extremely well and trusts him deeply -- deeply enough that she dismisses his strange behavior.

Maura also shows Eyk grace repeatedly. First, when he slams Elliot against the wall, then when he's angry with her for apparently no reason, again when he allows (orders?) that Elliot be locked in a cabinet, and finally when he slams her against the wall and demands to know how she disappeared. She's furious with him over Elliot both times -- they physically grapple -- but she forgives him without him having to ask. This grace would be superhuman if she showed it to just an acquaintance, even if they had strong chemistry.

I don't know if Maura built this attachment to Eyk over the dozens of simulations they've traversed together, or if its basis is a relationship they have in the real world. I don't even know if it's reciprocated by him (although I suspect it is). But either way, Maura feels a very real, deep connection to Eyk.

#maura x eyk #eyk x maura #eyk larsen #maura franklin #1899 #1899 netflix #1899 spoilers #1899 meta #in my mind she meant “you'll never be the man that my husband is”

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eggsaladstain · 1 year

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Have you ever took notice of the odd mural in the dining saloon. When Eyk goes to announce the change of course to the 1st class passengers, the first shot is of him with his back towards the camera and the crowd looking at him, and over their heads is this grey mural depicting what seem to be two giants (they appear to be giants to me, at least), the Earth symbol, and the vortex of water that Ling Yi witnessed. Have you any thoughts about that? It's too peculiar to not mean anything!

hi anon and thanks for the ask! here's the mural in question, on the kerberos:

and on the prometheus:

broadly speaking, this is such a great example of the level of attention to detail on this show and how everything, from the writing to the costume and set design to the creepy music and sound effects, was so meticulously crafted to breathe life into this world and give us clues for how this story would unfold.

as far as the mural itself, it’s chock full of foreshadowing and references to greek mythology, but before we dive into that, it’s worth mentioning that the mural is a relief sculpture, that is, a piece of art where the figures project outward from a flat background. this sculpted marble look of the mural ties in nicely with the opening credits which shows the characters as statues:

and statues, of course, are a physical, three-dimensional representation of a moment suspended in time, which turns out to be the twist with all the countless repeating simulations. it’s such a small detail that, combined with all these other small, subtle details, really sets the mood and tone for the rest of the show. immaculate vibes, truly.

but back to the mural, here’s a clearer image that emily beecham posted on twitter (with a bit of color correction and added sharpness):

you have the two ships, prometheus and kerberos, flanking the the triangle/earth symbol (with what looks to be parents and a child in the center) in the middle of a swirling vortex, which all foreshadow the ending where the failed simulations/ships are swept up in the vortex into the graveyard.

in each of the corners, you have a significant figure from greek mythology:

starting from the top left, there is zeus with his lightning bolt, who curses prometheus to his punishment in the top right, who is ultimately saved by hercules in the bottom left, who is depicted wrestling cerberus in the last of his 12 labors. in the bottom right is nyx, the goddess of night who is mother to hypnos (sleep), oneiros (dreams), and the moirai (the three fates), to name a few, and she is feared by zeus because she is older and more powerful than him.

and finally, you have the smaller figures scattered throughout of other people being swept into the vortex, referencing both the dead passengers from the mass suicide as well as the river styx, which dead souls must cross in order to reach the underworld. the figures in the river actually reminds me specifically of the scene in disney’s hercules and the visual is incredibly effective and striking in both cases:

i’ve mentioned a lot of doom and gloom so far but rest assured there are some glimmers of hope as well.

prometheus is ultimately freed from his eternal punishment by hercules. after completing his final task of subduing cerberus, hercules is able to atone for his crime of murdering his wife and children. nyx also gave birth to aether (brightness) and hemera (day). and i have nothing nice to say about zeus.

i really love all these references to greek mythology that were woven into the show, and in fact, the story itself plays out as a greek tragedy on multiple levels as well.

if you take the ship story at face value, you have these tragic, flawed characters who are all trying to escape their own traumas who end up dying at sea while trying to help a sister ship.

if you look at it from the simulation level, the tragedy only deepens as you have these characters who are doomed to repeat the same simulation over and over again, failing every time, unable to escape their fates. it’s only at the end that it seems like maura may have broken the cycle, but there are also plenty of clues to suggest that she has only traded one simulation for another.

and of course, if you look at it from a meta level, you have this big-budget, ambitious show that was created by an acclaimed director and screenwriter duo that was well received by critics and viewers alike and was canceled with little explanation less than two months after its release.

i will never get over this so thank you anon for giving me another excuse to talk about this show.

#1899 meta #1899 #greek mythology #meta #answer

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bringmefoxgloves · 1 year

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Okay I’m jumping off my tags on this post but everyone freaking out about triangles with 1899? you’re correct! but it goes beyond the romantic triangles (eyk & maura & daniel, jérôme & clémence & lucien, ramiro & angél & krester) and extends much further.

there’s triangles within family structures: the very apparent one of maura & daniel & their son elliot. there’s the hidden triangle family structure of muara & her brother & their father. then there’s also the trio of danish siblings: krester, tove & ada that parallel the dead daughters of eyk.

in addition there’s trios within the class/social groups: the three main crew members of the first mate (sebastian), the telegraph operator (wilhem), & the right hand man (franz). then the three stokers of olek & landon & darrel. the religious figures of the fake priest (ramiro), the woman who hears god (iben), & her husband preacher who by the end doesn’t believe (anker). the women involved with sex work who were yang li & her mother (yuk je) & the woman running them (virginia wilson).

you could probably find more triangles throughout of different relationships, but these are the ones that jump out to me.

then as the story progresses, one leg of a triangle is removed (via death) and what happens? the triangle collapses.

#1899 #1899 spoilers #1899 meta

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lauranthalasah · 1 year

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One thing that was running around my mind was the way Maura and Eyk seemed to trust each other, which I could feel was there, but I wasn't sure where it came from because Eyk is shown multiple times actually not trusting Maura. Just now I realized that it's because they trust each other immediately, with different parts of themselves.

Eyk instinct trust of Maura is emotional trust. He has no problem being vulnerable around her, he sees her as someone that knows more than him in that department, and the mental one, and he reaches for her opinion and respects it. In a time in which women couldn't even practice their given profession, this man, a seasoned captain, goes to Maura for guidance in those aspects he is lacking and actually follows her lead.

Maura instinct trust of Eyk is physical trust, which seems weird as he shoves her into a wall, but she never feels threatened by Eyk being physical, she has a hard time telling him everything, or anyone, because she feels she'll be judged as insane. But she has been restrained, she has been physically overpowered and controlled, and even when Eyk shows he is stronger than her, that he could take that agency away from her, she never fears his strength, or his touch, she actually is the one initiating most of them if not all. The ones that are skin to skin? She initiates them, she holds his forearm on multiple occasions, he lends her a piece of paper... she manages to caress his thumb, he lends her a hand, but lets her decide if she takes it or not, there's only one instance of Eyk openly touching her skin and it is to offer comfort, and she grasped him first anyways. There's also only one instance in which they seem to be on the same wavelength over holding each other and that is the hug at the beginning of The Key. There's a desperation and... can I say a feeling of coming home in that hug? Anyway, the point is, they trust each other, and they do it from the beginning. So I do believe they know each other, but I am not sure if it is because they know each other in the material world, or it is because they have been living this nightmare time after time and they remember the feeling of things instead of whole memories. They don't remember each other, but they remember, deep down, that they are safe with each other. I'm inclined myself over the second option as we are witnesses of how the trust they already have for each other evolves in the current simulation, by the end of it, Eyk trusts Maura physically as well (the hug, the touching of her hand, the sligh deep that seemed a prequel for a kiss), and Maura immediately tells Eyk what Daniel has told her and how she feels about it.

This show is eating my mind whole, I've written over 3000 words of thoughts about it and this is the first I share because I'll be in the middle of written a theory and a little fact or dialog would come to my mind that'll make me go "That makes no sense with that one there" and I have to stop several hours till I can process something else again.

#1899 spoilers #1899 netflix #1899 #eyk larsen #maura franklin #1899 meta

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the-body-remembers · 1 year

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Rewatched some scenes of 1899 and stumbled across the flashlight Eyk and Maura find in Daniel's memory. Obviously, flashlights weren't a thing back in 1899 and it was really unnerving for me to not know why Daniel used them earlier in the season and why they found one in his memory. Spoiler alert: I still don't know why.

But: If you look closely you can see the manufacturer on the flashlight, it's VIDOR.

I did some google research and found out that this a retro flashlight from the 1970s. It is probably an angle beam flashlight, at least that's the one that looks most like it.

This tumblr post already points out great similarities between the 1970s and the simulation. I want to use the flashlight as another example to further the point that 2099 is not reality and instead another (maybe lighter) level in the simulation and that reality is instead set somewhere in the 1970s.

#1899 #1899 netflix #1899 theories #1899 meta

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awwsd · 1 year

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Me, watching literally any Krester/Ángel interactions: haha yesssss this is a great idea do not even worry about the consequences of your actions oughhoohoo he will not ruin your life literally I see no red flags here this is absolutely fine yessiree

#I love for the drama #mwah #mwahahhahaha #awwsd thoughts #1899 meme #1899 krester #ángel 1899 #1899 meta #1899

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anxiouspotatorants · 1 year

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So while I’ve noticed that there are a lot of parallels between characters in 1899 (Maura and her mother’s memory losses, Eyk and Daniel losing their families, all the people who killed someone prior to getting on board), I’m also starting to notice some interesting contrasts.

The one I currently can’t get out of my mind is Daniel and Lucien. Both of them are in somewhat dead or dying marriages, but the situation and their responses are complete opposites. Daniel has lost Maura to a simulation because she would rather lose her memories of him and live in a nightmare loop built to make her question her sanity and kill her every 8 days than live with the knowledge of her son’s (impending?) death. But Daniel refuses to give up on her and does everything in his power to make her remember or at least get her out of the simulation. And when he finally manages to do that, he is willing to let go of his desire to have her remember him as long as she is free.

Meanwhile Lucien himself (at least simulation Lucien) is the one in need of salvation. He’s living another man’s life in his clothes and wealth but is physically at death’s door. And instead of clinging to Clémence, who he admits to loving, he pushes her away because it’s easier to think she’s disgusted by him and die with that perception than die with the hope that she might love him back.

The people on the Kerberos are really so screwed up what the fuck.

#why would they cancel my emotional support passengers on a horror steam ship?#it's just not fair #daniel solace #lucien 1899 #daniel x maura #maura x daniel #lucien x clémence #btw I multiship clémence #as in both with jérôme and tove #and kind of lucien #just so it's known #1899 spoilers #1899 meta #1899 #1899 netflix

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oatmilklover69 · 1 year

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I need to rewatch the season to make sure I’m not talking out of my ass, but I’m pretty sure there’s a connection between Krester/Ángel’s scars and their personalities beyond the queer parallel that Ángel pointed out.

Spoilers ahead!

For most of the first half of the season, Ángel presents this boisterous personality with the illusion of strength through hyper masculinity and general nonchalance. He wears this personality as a mask, but it occasionally cracks. We see the cracks when the ship turns around and he says “I can’t.” We see the cracks when he nervously smokes on the deck right before meeting Krester for the first time. When he reaches out for Krester as he tries to leave his cabin during the mutiny. And most notably, when he breaks down during the Calling. Beneath the façade Ángel is wounded and scared. He wears his mask over it like he wears his expensive suit over the scars on his back.

In contrast, Krester does not contain his vulnerable side hardly at all. When he tries, he tends not to be very successful. He lashes out at Ada and Tove. When his family calls him stupid, his face shows hurt. He spends much of his time crying or on the verge of tears. Even with Ángel, who I would argue he is most restrained around, his emotions betray him repeatedly. During their first meeting, all of his inner chaos and confusion is out in the open as Ángel touches him. When Ángel finds him in the washroom, he brushes his hair over his scar like a self-conscious teenager and gazes at Ángel in curiosity when he presents the cigarette case. And during The Gate Scene, he leans into Ángel’s touch and gives in to his sexual desires. This scene is particularly interesting because he continues to express himself in all of his emotional complexity. When Ángel reaches out to touch his face during the interaction, he dodges the contact. During the mutiny, he continues to show himself in all his messiness, reacting to his mother's incredibly harsh words in front of Ángel. Like the scar on his face, his emotional state is visible at all times in spite of his attempts to hide it. He may brush his hair over the scar or wear a hat, but the shame and embarrassment that comes with it is inescapable. His open expression of his internal state works in a similar way.

I appreciate writing like this, where things like appearance fit with the character. I see it all the time in things like graphic novels and animated movies and shows, but it seems a bit more rare in live-action stuff. It's such a little thing, but knowing how the Bo and Jantje tend to work I doubt this was an accident. Love picking at little details like this!! It's too bad there may not ever be more to analyze... but we have plenty to chew on for now. :')

#1899 #tv: 1899 #1899 netflix #1899 meta #1899 krester #krester #krester 1899 #1899 angel #angel 1899 #ángel 1899 #1899 ángel #my first meta 👁🫦👁#1899 spoilers #character analysis

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exoticlittlebird · 1 year

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I know there are lots of theories about Ángel and Ramiro’s simulation backstories, and I don’t know if this one has already been discussed, but Ramiro’s dialogue at the end of episode 3 got me thinking...

He says all of this is Ángel’s fault, assuming that “all of this” means the fact they have to run away and that Ramiro killed someone, basically their entire situation. (And before I continue let me be clear!!! I love Ángel. I love his character arc and I love him and Ramiro together. But he is not the greatest dude and the basis of his and Ramiro’s relationship is clearly a little toxic and fucked up, so just hear me out.)

These are the bits of Ramiro’s dialogue in ep 3 that really stick out to me --

-“You made me do all of this.”

-“None of this would have ever happened. You and I would have never happened.”

-“And all because of you. Because you can’t control yourself!”

-“You promised you’d change.”

Based on all of that, it’s pretty clear to me that they aren’t running away because a violent priest found out about Ángel and Ramiro being together -- a violent priest found out about Ángel because he got caught with a man (not Ramiro).

Ángel is clearly made out to be a playboy in the beginning of the series, establishing that ~that’s just the kind of guy he is~ (how much of that is just a facade is up for debate). Based on Ramiro’s dialogue here, Ángel has almost certainly cheated on people in the past, quite possibly including Ramiro. And I’m using the term “cheating” lightly because the Ángel we meet does not seem like the kind of person who commits to exclusive relationships in the first place. He and Ramiro most likely just fooled around while Ramiro worked for his family but were never exclusive (Ramiro is clearly in love with Ángel and probably wanted them to be). Ramiro knows he’s done this before. “You promised you’d change.” When they ran away together, Angel promised Ramiro he wouldn’t do it again.

I’m guessing Ángel was with some other man and got caught, either directly by this priest who knows him or by someone else who then informed the priest. When he went to punish Ángel, Ramiro found out and also went to try to stop him or to protect Ángel from getting beaten again (because he loves him so much, my sweet baby). Ramiro intervened, things got physical and it escalated, resulting in Ramiro accidentally killing the priest. He killed the priest because of Ángel. Because he was trying to protect him. If the priest had caught Ángel and Ramiro together, Ramiro killing him would have been self defense. If they had been caught together Ramiro would never say that this was all Ángel’s fault. It would have been a consequence of both of their actions. And in this ep 3 scene, Ramiro finds Ángel’s drawing of Krester and knows he’s been with him. He knows Ángel cheated again and Ramiro finally releases all his pent up frustrations about how their entire situation is a direct result of Ángel’s choice to be unfaithful.

Add in Ángel stating at the end of the scene “I am who I am,” plus his dialogue from episode 2 where he told Ramiro he’s never pretended to be someone he’s not (a cheater a non-commitment type of person). Ángel was careless, got caught with a man, and Ramiro protected him. Ángel came up with their escape plan and convinced Ramiro to go along with it. “You and I would have never happened,” they wouldn’t be stuck together fleeing to America, literally depending on each other for survival, if Ángel hadn’t given in to his wandering eye and gotten caught.

I know it’s nicer to imagine a rose-colored backstory of them as passionate lovers who got caught together and vowed to never leave each other, but to me it just doesn’t match up with the conversations we’re given in the show. They’ve got a fucked up past and a twisted relationship, but that doesn’t make me love them any less!! The whole second half of the series shows us how much they truly love each other, and at the end of the day their real relationship outside the simulation probably isn’t as fucked up as this one, so yeah. End of thoughts!!

#1899 #angel x ramiro #angel 1899 #1899 angel #ramiro 1899 #1899 ramiro #ramiro x angel #1899 netflix #backstory #ángel #ramiro #ángel x ramiro #1899 meta

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wildwren · 1 year

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!!! Spoilers for 1899 !!!

Whoops, I’ve got some more rambling, unhinged 1899 meta to share, this time about character arcs and fatal flaws. Sorry in advance.

So, thinking about Singleton’s speech in Episode 7:

“Every time, they make the same mistakes. And every time, they die. Because they can’t get rid of their emotions. But that’s what makes them weak. It’s human nature’s ultimate flaw. One shouldn’t base a choice on love, anger, hate. They’re just silly feelings that cloud the mind.”

So, there’s a lot of different ways to interpret what’s going on in the simulation, and how involved Singleton, Maura, Daniel, Elliot, Ciaran, etc. are in its execution. For the purposes of this meta, and given the implications of the quote above, I am going to be working off the idea that the simulation is a test of sorts — one that can, hypothetically, be passed, if the characters make the right choices. In this case, the “right” choices are presumably logical decisions unaffected by their own emotions. However, they are continuously failing to overcome their traumas, their desires, their clouded minds: “Every time, they make the same mistakes. And every time, they die.”

If the simulation is a test of sorts, then it’s one the characters are being set up to fail. They have all been given some sort of motivating instruction that pushes them into the drama — a letter or document that gives them the need to get on that ship, but which also embeds them with painful memories and strong emotional impulses — my brother lives in Brooklyn, the doctor who could save my life is in New York, the person I killed is in Hong Kong or Spain, the man who betrayed me is in that cabin, etc. etc. Additionally, we know at least some of them are being actively triggered, forced to re-live these traumas. Their fatal mistakes aren’t really failures, just human responses to emotional pain.

So: what are their mistakes? How is the simulation testing them and how are they failing? And what does this reveal about the characters and their relationships?

A couple other notes: for the purpose of this, I’m going to be focusing more on the secondary characters. The primaries: Daniel, Maura, Elliot, (and to a lesser extent, Eyk) have more mobility within the simulation — they are crawling around in tunnels in its understructure while everyone else is mostly just acting it out. For this reason, they are a little more complicated to grapple with, so I’m going to just set them to the side for now.

It’s also unclear to me which beats in the disaster we see unfold are designed into the simulation and which are hacks executed by Daniel. How different is this loop from the ones before it? (“We’ve never gotten this far before”). Is Daniel a worm in the apple or just part of it? I don't think I can answer that question, so for the purpose of this meta, I’m going to assume that things are supposed to go wrong in the simulation, and that Daniel is sometimes altering the simulation’s design and sometimes just triggering its beats so he can move through the story more efficiently. I’m not going to spend a lot of energy trying to determine which is which.

OKAY WOOF, damn you showrunners for making me word vomit about sci-fi babble when all I want to do is talk about CHARACTERS.

So, I think the first big test point of the simulation comes when the coordinates are received from the Prometheus. Eyk is immediately drawn in by this message and changes course to hunt it down, thereby triggering the rest of the events that lead to the failed loop. Of course, Maura is also hunting the Prometheus, and it perhaps its their mutual (and mutually supporting) motivation that triggers the disaster. Still, Eyk has more power in the ship’s structure, and he lets his own trauma, his desire to hunt down his own ghosts, and perhaps his allegiance to Maura motivate his decision — at the expense of the interests of everyone else on that ship.

Eyk’s obsession with the Prometheus, in combination with the death of Ada, the mystery of the Boy, and the spreading “plague” on the ship, eventually leads to the mutiny. The mutiny is another big moment where we can see character motivations and triggers play out, on both sides of the conflict, and for this reason can be viewed as a test point that the characters are “failing”. Franz is an interesting character, because he isn’t really presented as one of our mains, and he doesn’t appear to be in one of the pods in the final scene, nor do we have evidence that he’s receiving trauma triggers like most of the others. Despite this, he survives long into into the disaster and makes many pivotal choices which drive forward the narrative. Namely, showing Ada’s body to Tove, arming the steerage passengers (thereby enabling the mutiny) and eventually, dying to save Tove. I’m interested in that dynamic, but don’t really have more to say than that he seems to be emotionally motivated by Tove and eventually fails the simulation in part because of some allegiance he has to her.

It’s easy to frame the characters who side with Eyk as being more “good” or “just,” but their actions also contribute towards escalating the conflict to deadly levels. Here too, the characters are being motivated by their own personal dramas. Throughout the entire mutiny, Jérôme is being triggered by his traumatic memories with Lucien — another time when someone claimed power and status by force and tossed him aside as collateral — and he’s not willing to let that happen again. It’s less about Eyk or the Boy then about getting to re-do this painful moment and achieve a just end this time. Ramiro warns Eyk, but one gets this sense this is at least partly motivated by his desire to punish Ángel for Ángel’s mistreatment of him. Olek — oh, Olek — seems to me to simply have a self-sacrificial nature. We don’t really have the context on this, as we never see the full scope of his trauma memory, but whatever happened seems to be motivating him to invest his care in others at the expense of his own interests. This will also be his ultimate “failure.”

The character who most pivotally escalates the violence on the side of the mutineers is Krester. His choice to tell Iben about the boy and to support her search for him seems to come from a self-hatred he cannot unlearn — the idea that he’s being punished for his own nature and must try to negate it. This self-destruction is consummated when he is one of the first to throw himself overboard during the calling,which is, I think, another test of the simulation — which characters are motivated enough to resist it and which are not? Who “fails” the call?

(Again, I mean “failing” in the logic of the simulation — their failures are that they are humans who are not allowed to move on from their pain. This is a rigged test.)

Our notable characters who fall victim to the calling are Krester, Yuk Je, Iben (she needs to be tied up but is clearly in zombie-mode) and Virginia, who only escapes in the knick of time because of Daniel’s override. Krester, as discussed above, is perhaps susceptible because of his own self-resentment. We know that Yuk Je never wanted to be on the ship in the first place, that she was dragged unwillingly by her daughter and regretted it vocally ever since. Iben is clearly susceptible to all sorts of callings, benevolent or not, and Virginia is fascinating, because her failure here seems to be her own isolation. Aside from her oppressive dynamic with Ling Yi and Yuk Je, she is quite solitary in the narrative. She prefers to control and manipulate those around her rather than getting close to them or relying on them for support. She clearly resisted the call for a while but ultimately fell prey simply because she had no one to tie her up. She was alone! This fatal flaw continues after she touches the virus and conceals the way it’s corrupting her presence in the simulation.

By the time the storm comes around, the characters are left scrambling to save whatever individuals they can, even at the expense of the so-called “greater good.” Olek is the poster boy of this: he abandons the ship’s wheel to protect Ling Yi, and he succeeds, but at the cost of his own life and perhaps others. Anker falls prey to his own fatal flaw — his inability to walk away from Iben — and they die together. Lucien has spent the narrative pushing everyone away from him, driven by paranoia over his illness and his own deceits. But even so, Jérôme and Clémence futilely work try to save him, leaving the furnaces to do so. Ángel and Ramiro are able to set aside their conflict and trade honest affection, but not in time to save Ángel or turn the course on any other part of the disaster.

Of course, we know it’s all useless: the simulation has already been deemed a failure, there’s nothing they can do either way, and therein lies the tragedy. They’ve actually overcome so much. They’ve set aside some of their own pain to better help each other. But this emotional catharsis was never the point! The simulation isn’t requiring them to heal their trauma, it’s requiring them to be inhuman!

The biggest question that remains for me is what distinguishes the final survivors of the simulation: Jérôme, Clémence, Virginia, Ramiro, Ling Yi, and Tove. (And Maura, of course). By episode 8, the simulation is so corrupted that it’s hard to say how similar this is to previous runs re: final survivors. Did the same group make it to the end in the previous loop? What wiped them out in that simulation? How did Daniel’s hacks give them an advantage this time around? *massive shrugging gesture* Hey I never promised to have coherent theories here, I just wanted to ramble about characters!

Anyway, there are obviously a lot more “test points” to pull out from the story, nor did I touch on every character, but this already took me fucking days to write as is,,,, so. I hope it was interesting! I’d loveeee to hear peoples’ thoughts, piggy-backs, counter ideas, etc.

#1899 #1899 spoilers #1899 meta #my meta #putting on my clown costume for this one #this is a genuinely obnoxious thing to write im sorry #but perhaps i can know some peace now

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spectraling · 1 year

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The absolutely insane meta of the production of 1899 being about creating an environment that immerses the actors and looks as close to reality as possible while being run through a computer program. They created what is essentially the first step towards a fully immersive simulation to create the show Netflix I am going to murder you

#1899 netflix #netflix 1899 #making 1899 #1899 #1899 meta #fuck netflix

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cefonteyn · 1 year

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European History and Sensibilities in 1899 season 1

Please forgive the length of this post -- I know I'm rambling, but I am so taken by the depth and brilliance of this show. For context, I'm an Indian immigrant to the United States, who studied American and European history and literature in the U.S. As you might imagine, I have many, many thoughts about 19th century European history and ideologies evident in 1899.

One of the really fascinating things to me about 1899 is how European it is -- obviously in terms of the nationalities of the actors and the characters, but also in terms of one of the show's leitmotifs: you cannot run from your station in life.

There were populist revolutions across Europe in 1848. They broadly failed, and the monarchs won. So in 1899, Europe was still a land of kaisers and czars (both words that come from Caesar, immediately locating 19th century Europe within a two-thousand year history of inherited status).

This is in direct opposition to the American myth, right? The idea that you can come from nothing and become the king of the world. That's a story Americans love to tell and hear, and when we Americans talk about European immigration in the 19th century, that's the way we tell the story. "All men are created equal," we say. This is where you're supposed to come if you're the "poor huddled masses yearning to breathe free." New York, specifically, is where Lady Liberty holds her lamp beside the golden door. (Lady Liberty is European, of course -- but she is French. France had a successful republican revolution in 1791, relapsed with a series of emperors, but by 1899 was a republic again.)

That's why the Kerberos is bound for New York, and not Buenos Aires or Sydney or Bombay. The American myth calls to all our friends on the Kerberos. The show begins with an American poet's words. Olek repeatedly looks at an image of the Statue of Liberty. Virginia explicitly says, "Everyone is running from something." They all hope to escape their pasts and begin anew in America, specifically, because of America's foundational mythos. Maura hopes to become a woman doctor. Tove hopes to lead a normal life with her baby and siblings. Iben hopes to establish a church rather than toiling in the fields.

But they never make it to New York. They've tried "dozens of times," Daniel tells Maura, but the ship never reaches its destination. Because New York isn't real. These European have no hope, ever, of successfully becoming the masks they wear. Angel says exactly this to Ramiro: "You cannot change the nature of things." Later on, it seems that he has had a change of heart, but his realization comes too late, and he's never able to act on his epiphany and become a better person.

Consider the stories of Ling Yi, Lucien, and Franz.

In the British colony of Hong Kong, Ling Yi tries to steal her way into a better life. The results are disastrous: she loses her best friend. Later, she loses her mother. Even though she acknowledges to her mother that she's not entitled to have dreams, she begins a dreamy relationship with Olek -- and then loses the boy she loves. By the end, she's lost everyone she cares about. There is nothing left of the better life she tried to steal from Mei Mei. The ship isn't real. The ocean isn't real. Even her beautiful stolen kimono is gone. The only familiar presence left in her life, the only person with whom she can communicate, is her pimp.

Like Ling Yi, Lucien tried to steal an identity. He returned to Paris from French Algeria trying to live out a dead man's life, and learned that the universe would not allow it. He accepts his death as soon as Eyk announces that he's heading for the Prometheus, and later tells Clemence, "I didn't get what I wanted. I got what I deserved." He understands his fate as almost a karmic balance. He stole a dead man's life, and now he has to die, too.

And then there's Franz. He's the "American" on board, in the sense that he does what a prototypical American would appreciate. He's clearly of a lower-class background and builds solidarity with the working class. He attempts to democratize the ship by empowering the underclass -- giving them arms. And when he feels that the ship's leader is not doing a good job, he seizes power to redirect the ship to its original course. It could almost be in the U.S. Declaration of Independence, which starts by justifying the American Revolution. His actions are so very American that he could almost be heroic.

Of course, the name Franz is related to France. France gave critical support to America in its revolution. Then, as I said above, it had its own bloody revolution and deposed its king. By 1899, France was a republic. So maybe it's more accurate to say that Franz is the French revolutionary, not the American.

But either way, in 1899, he's not a hero. His coup fails. Nobody shows him any respect at all, from haughty first mate Sebastian, to dignified first-class passenger Maura, right down to humble stoker Olek. The crew that was initially on his side turns against him (before he's deactivated, Wilhelm admits that Eyk had been right all along). Even the third-class passengers Franz empowered lose respect for him by the end, when he can't explain the mysterious Calling.

So, in the second half of the show, Franz returns to his proper place: under Eyk's command. (Just like France returned to imperial rule under Napoleon, even after its revolution.) Eyk is above deck, seeking philosophical enlightenment, exploring the nature of the mystery with Maura. And Franz is lower than ever, in the lowest part of the ship, performing manual labor: shoveling coal. When the storm hits, he doesn't even know until someone comes down to tell him.

In contrast, consider Olek. He never, ever subverts his station in life. Even when he's frustrated by Eyk, he does everything the captain requests. He treats everyone with deference, not even meeting their eyes, because he understands that he's lowest ranked. Even the relationships he forges -- the friendship with stowaway Jerome and relationship with prostitute Ling Yi -- are with people in his own class/rank.

Notably, Olek is Polish. In 1899, Poland hadn't existed for over 100 years; it had been divided between the Russian Empire, the Austro-Hungarians, and Prussia (later the German Empire). Olek is literally nobody, from no land.

And for knowing his place in life, he is rewarded by the universe: he ends up acting in stead of the captain, steering the ship. (Brilliantly, Olek's name comes from Alexander, as in Alexander the Great. It may not be immediately apparent to people who dismiss him as a "Polack," but Olek has rich history and leadership in his name.)

And finally, there's Eyk himself. His old-fashioned name also means "ruler," from the word for oak trees under which village heads issued their rulings. And he is the definite ruler of the ship. He is imperious and stern to start, and Maura immediately recognizes from the way that he carries himself that he is the ship's captain. He knows Morse code, and how to read naval maps, and the depth of the sea. He also knows how to read his crew and order them around.

Eyk exhibits a magnetic charisma, which works on everyone. Jerome and Ramiro, who would rather have kept their heads down and stayed out of the spotlight, end up risking their lives for him. Sebastian apologizes to him before deactivating him. Even Daniel -- for whom Eyk is a romantic rival -- helps Eyk, agrees with him publicly, and eventually just moves him elsewhere rather than deactivating him.

But as events get stranger, Eyk's behavior becomes erratic. He drinks heavily on the job. He treats officers, crew, and passengers poorly. He makes an imperious decision against the wishes of every single person on board. George III lost America for the same thing. Julius Caesar died for that, and so did Louis XVI.

But the mutiny against Eyk fails. Tove, who points a rifle at Eyk and informs him that they're turning the ship around, is also the first person to defect from the mutineers. She says to him, "Du bist der Kapitan." After the Calling, everyone again acknowledges Eyk as the captain. When the crisis of the storm begins, it's Eyk they seek first, before turning to Sebastian and Franz.

The show presents this as the correct order of things. Eyk is sympathetic, intelligent, and noble, in every sense of the word. We, the audience, love him for it. Even when we sympathize with Franz, we never agree with him and turn against Eyk.

So, the first season reifies the 1899 European idea that one ought to act in accordance with one's class status. Escaping one's station in life is impossible, and attempting to do so always leads to disaster.

(Here I would be remiss not to mention the relationship to Hinduism and Buddhism. The idea that everyone's life circumstances are a reflection of their actions in their past lives, and therefore should not be avoided or changed? That's Hinduism. The idea that the universe is an illusion? It's called maya, and it's in Hinduism and Buddhism. The idea that attachment to the illusory things of maya necessarily brings suffering, that suffering distracts you from your true self as part of atman and your goal of achieving moksha -- of being blown out of existence like a candle (nirvana) -- of achieving liberation from the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth: all of this is in Hinduism and Buddhism. It's exactly what Daniel tries to tell Maura.

Europeans in the 19th century were familiar with these concepts. Knowledge of Hinduism and Buddhism was quite fashionable not only in Britain, but across the continent, and it remained so into the 20th century. See, e.g., Hermann Hesse's 1927 German novel Siddhartha about the Buddha, or this Polish translation of the Sanskrit Ramayana from 1937.)

Of course, European history didn't end in 1899. Major shifts were on the horizon; a century of war was about to begin, reshaping Europe's map several times. European nations bit into one another, sometimes spitting each other out, sometimes swallowing each other whole.

The British empire continued to lose its global power. World War I ended Eyk's German Empire and established the Weimar Republic, setting the stage for the Third Reich. The 1917 Revolution ended Imperial Russia and established the Soviet Union. The Treaty of Paris reestablished Olek's Poland. Civil war raged in Angel's Spain. World War II began in 1937 on the Sino-Japanese front, and Ling Yi's Hong Kong was occupied by Japan. Olek's Poland was occupied by Germany, as was Clemence, Lucien, and Jerome's France.

And then the Cold War raged. Europe was split in two. America became a superpower and spread its sensibilities across war-ravaged Western Europe, while the Soviet Union did the same in the East. Eyk's Germany was itself split.

Until, finally, came the mostly peaceful Revolutions of 1989 (the same numerals as 1899!), fulfilling the populist promise of the 1848 revolutions. Round Table Talks -- beginning in Olek's Poland -- spread capitalist democracy across Eastern Europe. The Berlin Wall came down later the same year in Eyk's Germany.

(Jantje and Bo are German, too, of course. Their age and vantage point in Central Europe means they have a wonderful perspective on late 20th century European history.)

The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, leaving America as the sole world power. Obviously, Europe is not America. To this day, America is a very libertarian country, ruled by a worship of individualism and the belief that riches and success are only a reinvention away. European countries are not ruled by this same fundamental ideology.

But in the 20th century, we Americans exported (read: forced) some of ourselves across the world, including in Europe, very often in evil ways. A lot of it was horrible and self-interested. We ruined lives. We ruined generations. We ruined entire nations.

But not all of it was bad. (Black Americans invented jazz and rock and roll, after all, and it's the latter genre that plays at the end of every episode.) And one of the things we exported was our foundational myth -- our belief -- now widely accepted in many parts of the world, including modern Europe: that it is inherently right and correct that people should chart their own destinies rather than being forced into roles determined at birth.

(Not to suggest that self-determination is uniquely American. Other cultures have this belief indigenously, of course! I only mean that we exported our own version.)

At the end of the first season, we see the same people that we've gotten to know, but in a new historical context. They no longer believe that they are in 1899; now it seems they're in 2099. They're not exactly in America, but they are in the territory that America claimed to have won spiritually in 1969, in its space race with the Soviet Union. (Of course, we now acknowledge space as a place for all humans, not for any race or nationality. That kind of unity is reflected in post-WWII organizations like the United Nations...and the European Union.)

And so I wonder if the same leitmotif will play in the next step of these characters' journey, or if the next season will reflect Europe's 20th century: changing social roles. Democratization. Mass murder and genocide. Waning empires and anti-immigration sentiments. Homophobia, transphobia, sexism, and gender equality and increased LGBTQ+ rights. Socialism and austerity.

I really hope the next season embraces the next chapter in Europe's history. If so, it promises to be a very interesting season, marked with sharp internal and external conflicts and contradictions. Because, to borrow a phrase from the American poet Walt Whitman, Europe is large, it contains multitudes.

#1899 meta #1899 theories #1899 spoilers #1899 analysis #1899 netflix #1899 #sorry again about the absurd length of this post

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eggsaladstain · 1 year

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i know i literally just wrote about olek/ling yi but these two have me in a chokehold, so here i am again with more thoughts on olek specifically this time.

out of all the passengers on the ship, his backstory is the biggest mystery to us - we know he has a brother in america and there is violence in his past as evidenced by his bloody and ominous memory, but that’s really all we know about his motivations and his life before the ship.

considering how many of the other passengers’ backstories involve lies and murder, it seems reasonable to assume that, like them, olek also killed someone and took their place aboard the ship. there’s also an interesting reddit theory suggesting that the postcard was actually addressed to olek’s brother and that olek killed him and stole his identity, which would further cement his connection with ling yi, who accidentally kills mei mei (whose name can be read as “little sister” in chinese) and takes her place on the ship. and then of course there are the parallels to the myth of prometheus, who stole fire from the gods to give to mankind and was punished as a result. olek’s name means “protector of men,” he tends to the fire that keeps the ship running, and he suffers greatly while trying to help others, first with his imprisonment while trying to warn eyk of the mutiny and then with his death while trying to save ling yi from the storm. to complete the parallel, olek presumably also stole something (apart from ling yi’s heart, badum tish) though exactly what that is still remains to be seen.

so, the signs clearly point to olek having some dark secret, and yet, the way he’s been presented so far on the show seem to suggest the opposite. olek doesn’t carry himself with that cloak of guilt or shame like ramiro, lucien, and ling yi all do, and despite the mystery surrounding his background, he’s one of the most genuine characters on the show. he’s a hard worker who follows the rules and hierarchies onboard, never demonstrating any ulterior motives. he’s literally just trying to do his job, have a snack and a break every once in a while, and get through this increasingly fucked up journey. more than any of the other characters, olek is guileless, not in the sense that he’s naive but in the sense that he’s open and without deception. his kindness is not an act, he genuinely tries to do the right thing and help others no matter the personal cost.

but then what about the postcard? olek tells ling yi it’s from his brother and that it’s a long story, seeming to suggest that it’s an invitation from his brother to join him in america. but the way he handles it tells a different story. he doesn’t look at the postcard with anticipation or excitement, but with a longing for something he can never have. he treats the postcard not as a goal he’s trying to achieve but rather a memento of something lost. perhaps he did steal it from his brother and feels guilty about taking his place. perhaps his brother died in america and he is now visiting him too late. perhaps his brother is alive but olek had to pay too high a price to be able to join him. i should note that when olek tells ling yi about the postcard, he uses the present tense when talking about his brother (at least that’s what the subtitles said), so if we take that at face value, his brother is indeed still alive. but it seems equally likely given the themes of loss and longing on this show that his brother is dead and olek is unable to move past it, speaking of him in the present tense and holding onto the postcard as a way to keep his brother’s memory alive.

and then you have that bloody, snow-covered memory. it’s clear that someone was murdered and dumped in the tank, and the postcard is nearby on the ground, already well-worn at that point. there are obvious parallels to ling yi’s backstory with the locked box and tank and someone drowning in either water or tar, and after olek dies, he re-emerges from the tank in a direct reversal of his first meeting with ling yi. and this is where it gets really interesting to me. olek, angel, and lucien all died on the ship after the mass suicide and they all reappear before their loved ones in the end, following them to whichever memory they end up in. ramiro is in his own memory so angel appears in the well, jerome and clemence end up in ling yi’s memory so lucien appears in the box, and olek ends up in the vat in his own memory because ling yi is there. unlike angel and lucien who can only be heard as voices, olek appears in person before ling yi, and also unlike angel and lucien, who both retain their memories and call out to their lovers, olek seems to be a different version of himself entirely. he is completely blank, devoid of the kindness we have come to know him for, and with his entire body covered in black tar, he looks like a living manifestation of the black crystals from the virus. he certainly behaves as if he’s been programmed with one purpose and one purpose only - to show ling yi the way out, to open the door.

what does it mean?? what does it all mean?? i have no answers here, only more questions, but despite his tragic ending, i really love how olek’s character develops throughout this season. he goes from being a cog in a machine whose sole purpose is to keep the ship running to a brave survivor who loves and is loved by a girl, whose purpose is to keep her safe, who continues to do so even in death.

truly an excellent character and the best boy and i’m gonna need a very happy ending for him and ling yi please and thank you!!

#1899 meta #1899 #olek #olek x ling yi #ling yi #ling yi x olek #meta

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cinnamoncountess · 1 year

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Spilling semi-structured thoughts on a triangle dynamic (Ramiro/Àngel/Krester)

I've decided to compile my subjectively-tinted sentiments on this intriguing triangle dynamic (Ramiro/Ángel/Krester) in a mazy juxtaposition of notions. I should also add that I do welcome anyone who'd like to add or correct something or discuss the points I've listed.

This meta is incomplete as of now and will be extended eventually, can certainly be used as reference or idea provider.

Connections due to the meanings of their names

Their names could hint at their respective roles and consumed paths in the "1899" sim:

Krester = follower of Christ

Ángel = attendant, agent, or messenger of God

Ramiro = Supreme Judge, famous advice

Krester ("follower of Christ") -> Krester follows religious believes and acts on behalf of someone, who even more strongly believes in a higher entity, a messiah [his mother Iben]; "follower" indicates no motivation of his own, but mere desire to be taken along by someone [passively]

widely reflected upon "Krester" in context of this simulation: his name might allude to Krester following the 'original' plan constructed in this sim, his role is to follow the "the chosen one" [which would basically be the creator's son = maybe Elliot? Or Maura? Unsure about this yet], namely taking the journey to NY and not back

Ángel ("attendant ... of God") -> Ángel acts as a caregiver [basically another meaning for "attendant"] to Krester, maybe even a "messenger of God" because Krester prays tightly holding onto his cross pendant and Ángel unexpectedly appears [even so much it startles him, like it's a divine appearance]

Ángel ("...agent, or messenger of God") -> Ángel acts as a "messenger" for Ramiro, because his [singing] voice guides him through the ship, back to their shared memory / trauma event and also guides everyone to the bridge before the ship runs into archive; him singing about a mad woman in a green dress who hurts her finger (probably hinted to be Virginia) could also be interpreted as him being a "messenger" to warn the passengers about potential hazards [Virginia = a virus?] (see also on this subject: discussion about whether or not Ángel might inherit "seer" abilities)

widely reflected upon "Ángel" in context of this simulation: his name indicates he should have [more likely unconsciously] a greater understanding of what is happening, his role is to act as a messenger / mediator for the creator [basically the creator itself = maybe Maura? Ciaran?]

Ramiro ("Supreme Judge, Famous Advice") -> Ramiro "executed" judgement upon a priest by allegedly killing him; he also pretty much detaches from Ángel by better judgement and "advices" and helps Eyk + team; he also guides and somewhat protects [applies to not only Ángel but also Ling Yi] the "survivors" in the end

widely reflected upon "Ramiro" in context of this simulation: his purpose would be to decide and act as a devoted helper for the greater cause and he might also be a clue giver, in a greater sense the meaning of his name as "Supreme Judge" could also be derived from Last Judgement, therefore him being the one who acts out "the final judgement of God" namely the creator [basically an aid to the creator itself = Maura? Ciaran?]

there's profound religious symbolism connecting Ramiro / Ángel / Krester

To be continued; to be added soon ->

Cigarette case

Obscure power dynamics

Individual aims

Connections through their backstories

#1899 #1899 meta #ramiro #angel #krester #1899 spoilers

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bringmefoxgloves · 1 year

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i’m not able to get screenshots but i’m just throwing this together a bit to get my thoughts down: the color and visual looks of the costumes of 1899 are so brilliantly interconnected and draw cues and inform character’s similarities.

the three brightest costumes (muara’s red dress, miss wilson’s green dress, and ling yi’s kimono) all relate them together as women trying to forge their own paths.

muara’s red dress however sets her apart, as it’s a deep and dark enough color that, should she be in the right light, she can easily blend into the men’s darker and more somber clothing. she is a chameleon.

ling yi’s and olek trade costumes in essence. olek starts with a (nominally) white costume, dressed head to foot plain linen or cotton. by the time he is swept off the deck, it has been darkened until it is nearly black, and when ling yi reappears, she wears only the under layers of her kimono, shedding the bright outer layer to reveal the white.

jérôme, when he appears, has a costume that is nearly identical to ramiro’s at the end, but after he steals the sailor’s uniform, you can see the visual similarities of his and tove’s costumes. both dark, somber, plain, with hardly any layering. they are both direct, confrontal and action focused characters.

clémence’s transfer into pants, while a moment of seizing power and agency for herself, also aligns her appearance closely with ramiro. especially in the final scene of eyk and maura’s reunion: her hair has come undone, and with the long strands hanging in front of her shoulders, they look like the suspenders ramiro wears. even her gathered sleeves are dirtied to a skin tone, rather than a white or cream as they started out, which only to draws more visual similarities with ramiro, who has rolled up his sleeves.

these two sets of costumes similarities is extremely noticeable in the moment they walk away from maura in an attempt to find a lifeboat before the corruption overtakes the simulation. they are paired off, dark costume with light (miss wilson with ling yi, jérôme and clémence, tove and ramiro).

eyk and daniel’s costumes, when they are both introduced, are so similar to each other, with the dark overcoats hiding their forms. even when these coats are shed, they still have similarly dark and understated clothing, utilitarian almost.

interestingly, i think yung je’s and daniel’s costumes could also be related to each other, especially once daniel loses his coat in the 1011 room in the hospital. tightly buttoned up, form fitting. both act as guides for their other half, yung je with her daughter, ling yi, and daniel with his wife, maura.

#1899 #1899 meta #1899 spoilers #i am quickly losing my mind to this damn tv show

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