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dontbotherwiththepronunciation · 8 months

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Hi!

I loved everything you already shared about the poll with us. I would be super interested if you could share some of the ideal endgame scenarios people envisioned and if they correlated with other aspects(specifically ship preference and liking house Stark)

Hi! I am extremely sorry for how long this has taken. Things have been busy and this took more time than I thought it would. In all truth there weren't that many correlations when it came to ship and preference. My biggest surprises were that both, in the Iron Islands and the North, people would prefer him to be in a non-ruling position, that the option "At the Wall" was so popular, and that the option of him becoming Bran's prophet was shown a lot more love than what I usually perceive in fandom.

To be honest I think this was the most entertaining ask I've gotten about the survey and it was nice to embark on a slightly more complex mini-project.

Other data for reference: The overall House Stark score out of the 109 people (that is counting my irls) who gave a punctuation was of ~6,22/10

Also fun enough out of the 1/10 voters six of them were my Stark-hating irls whom I dearly love for their extremist tendencies/j jdsghfjsdhf

Numbers regarding most and least liked ships (including my irls):

Also, once again, this is a mix of interpretations and ideas and please be mindful of not publicly shaming someone who can't defend themselves. If I could keep the bitterness down so can you. Bitch about it with your mutuals and friends (also me if you really need someone) but don't go around publicly mocking those who were kind enough to offer me their insight.

Shipping, pro/anti-House Stark views and other tendencies in preferred endgames:

King/Lord of the Iron Islands

Average House Stark score was of ~5,0/10 and surprisingly Thenye and Greysnow people were more present in this group (9/13 Greysnows and 10/23 Theynes) while the rest were lacking (8/46 throbbs, 3/14 thamsays, 1/10 theonsas and two other voters didn't pick any ships. Book vs Show people were distributed proportionately although when it came to themes, people who chose Nr. 4 Suffering, redemption vs irredeemability, accountability over past misdeeds were more inclined to pick this option (17/23 counting my irls).

hmphhhh…difficult things here. i know what i dont want but......was it you tereshkova who said satisfaction doesnt know its own shape, or was it đặng? nothing new you already know my ideas. more than anything id like to see him in environments that are stressful but emotionally cathartic. you told me about the fandom-cottage thing and….naaaahhhhh…i dont like it. if he has to have a life of idleness id want that to be unsatisfactory for him. i think having him as an advisor or ruler in the islands is still my favourite endgame but only if hes allowed to do things. his time with the starks and the boltons might make him reflect on ironborn culture and his own (exaggerated) views on it. politically he could try to adopt a more centrist position on old-new-way and hopefully make some reforms about the rape culture and thralldom. i want him to go on long walks at the beach late at night with jeyne, falia, wex, qarl and tris. i think he deserves real friends. oh and i want him to kill ramsay. rip you and your christian dogma but im different.

Puppet King/Lord of the Iron Islands

Average House Stark score of ~6,1/10 with no strong shipping preferences. Asha wasn't in the top 5 POV characters of many, but most of those who picked her were also inclined to this possible endgame, which I found curious and those who were particularly interested in many Theon & Greyjoy relationships were also majorly present in this group.

Non-ruling position in the Iron Islands

No tendencies at all. This answer was picked by more than half of those who responded the question and it was a complete mix when it came to ships and themes of interest. Something that was quite shocking to me though was House Stark's average score of ~8,9/10.

At the Wall

I would have expected Greysnow people to be more fond of this option yet only 6/13 picked it and it somehow still managed to be the second most popular one. The average score for House Stark was a high one too, ~8,4/10, and in all truth there weren't many remarkable things perhaps with that this group was composed mostly of people who first engaged with the books before the show (36/53), which was uncommon compared to the other answers and that half of the thramsay shippers (7/14) also picked this option.

Exiled/in Essos

There wasn't anything disproportionate when it came to ships but a tendency I found interesting was how many of the TCK's (11/15, counting my irls) were fond of this concept. This is also one of the few subsets in which Daenerys found a warmer welcome compared to Sansa (who was still loved but had less sympathisers than usual). The House Stark score had an average of ~4,9/10, which was lower than I'd have expected, and 17/26 voters (≈ 65,3%) were of the mind Theon could have adapted to the Iron Islands while only 6/26 (≈ 23%) were against that concept.

Bro I can’t fathom how you're twisting and turning with this question kkkkkkk (ノ_<。)ヾ(´ ▽ ` ) Purely wish-fulfilment and only wish-fulfilment I’d want him to go somewhere where the title of perpetual stranger won’t contradict his own perception of self. Somewhere where he can only be considered as a stranger but it won’t clash with a false sense of home. We’ve discussed Braavos and you made me curious with your talk of Lorath as places of escapism that are thematically meaningful and rehab and therapy away from war and toxic people would do him well. AND HE HAS TO TAKE JEYNE WITH HIM HE PROMISED HE PROMISED HE HAS TO KEEP ONE FUCKING PROMISE IN HIS LIFE

Advisor/Hand/Servant in Winterfell

House stark average score of ~7,2/10, responders were also fond of him staying in a non-ruling position in the North (23/26 voters picked that option too). This time there was a strong current of shippers: 14/26 voters picked throbb as their preferred ship (~30,4% of all throbb people) and 7/26 voters picked theonsa (=70% of all theonsa people). Unlike the previously mentioned option, it was Sansa who had the most sympathisers here with Daenerys being perceived as a villain by 7/26 of the voters and six being alright with her possible descent into madness. Sansa however had 15/26 voters rooting for her to become Queen in the North and only 4/26 voters being accepting of darker twists in her storyline.

Non-ruling position in the North

This is the group that gave the highest scores to House Stark and so we come to an average of ~9,2/10. Throbb were very much in the lead here (22/37) and surprisingly there was a concept that was often repeated by the throbb people who picked this option involving Theon staying in the North somewhere in a cottage in a semi-delusional state of mind and regularly hallucinating Robb as a positive presence in his life. Some mentioned Asha, Wex and/or Sansa as people who visited him but for some reason Jeyne was never included although the answers came from people who claimed to have read the books. Here's an example:

Someone had this post on tumblr where he gets to heal in a cottage in the North and lives alone but for Wex who takes care of him and Robb who is still dead but Theon hallucinates him and the two finally get to be in love and happy but he's not real and theon is lying to himself because not having robb at his side would make life unbearable how is he supposed to move on without him? how can he be happy when the only person who truly loved him is gone because of him? Sansa visits him and she is warm and kind and plays along because she understands his pain

Prophet of the Drowned God

I was mostly just surprised that it was such a popular option given how I haven't seen it explored a lot in the current fandom. Theon's religious arc is a personal point of interest for me since it mirrors Aeron's but I rarely see the fandom taking it into account. The House Stark average score reached ~6,5/10 and prefered ships were distributed properly. This whoever was the only case in which the Theon & Aeron and Theon & Euron relationships were picked more often than Theon & Alannys, still lower than Asha but significantly more popular in this group.

Sadly there weren't any answers that expanded on this more, but this possibility caught my attention.

he is the drowned God (i’m joking but am i)

Bran's Prophet

Average House Stark score of ~5,7/10 which was slightly below the total average. There weren't any strong shipping preferences although it was not surprsing but remarkable to see almost all those who had Bran as one of their favourite POV characters (9/10) pick this while only 4/10 were fond of the "Dies for the Starks/Bran" option. A majority of of those who picked this option got to interact with the books before the show (30/47).

Theon finding his place at bran's side, and bran forgiving him for his misdeeds. But i need it at the ultimate snail's pace.

Dies for the Starks/Bran

Only three out of the voters also marked the option of him becoming King/Lord of the Iron Islands, the vast majority preferred throbb as a ship (16 out of this subset.about ~34,7% of all throbb shippers) and the overall House Stark ranking was of ~7,1/10. Overall many on this subset rejected the idea that he could have fit into the Iron Islands had he returned sooner or never been taken and a surprising number explained that an endgame they'd loath would be him getting into a ruling position.

i don't want him to be given a position of honor or power. he is a fundamentally changed character who is highly traumatized and disabled both mentally and physically as well as being haunted by the ghosts of his past. there is no possible way for it to make sense that he is given power over a sheep farm let alone a kingdom

Dies by Stannis' hand

Sadly nothing really remarkable. No disproportionate shipping tendencies and an average score for House Stark of ~5,7/10. Those who chose this option weren't majorly from any specific demographies or tended to choose a specific option for themes. Slightly disappointing since I was curious. I did however find it interesting that out of those who chose this option, everyone also picked the "At the wall" possibility.

Stannis is going to kill him and I've made my peace with that.

Dies by Ramsay's hand

Not many strong tendencies. The House Stark score was on an average of 5,6/10 and out of the people who picked this alternative only 2/8 were thramsay people. The rest were two throbs, one theyne, one theonsa and the other two didn't pick any preferred ships. Opinions on House Stark differed greatly although in this case it wasn't tied to ships and the throbb and theonsa people gave it rather low ratings. Something that picked my attention is how the eight people here were also inclined to choose "Dies a traitor's death" as a possibility they'd be content with. Thematically I can imagine why but it still was surprising to me.

Dies heroically and publicly redeemed

Average House Stark score of ~5,8/10. There weren't any strong shipping tendencies. It didn't even strongly contrast with the "Dies a traitor's death with only a few people remembering him fondly" option since 10 of it's voters would have also been content with that option. There wasn't anything noticeable when it came to preferred themes either.

Dies a traitor's death with only a few people remembering him fondly

A significant number (11/14≈ 78% ) of thramsay shippers picked this option and the average score of House Stark in this subset was of ~3,1/10. Very fun for me to observe, I didn't think this option would show any clear tendencies but it did. When it came to chosen themes there was something interesting going on. Nr.3 (the most chosen one out of all voters) was only chosen three times by people who picked this possibility although there wasn't a clear preference for another specific set of themes.

It would feel deeply wrong to me if he died heroically and was lauded after his death. It feels like so much of his story is about accountability and living with your mistakes/regrets and and ending like that would completely undermine that message. I also hate the idea of him being in some sort of position serving the Starks because feeling beholden to them was the source of so much of his discontent and issues to begin with. I think the most satisfying ending would be one where Theon gets to be his own person, not who anyone else wants or expects him to be.

Here are some of the wish fulfilment answers that I am allowed to quote and either proposed less common endings or expanded on the common ones in case you are curious. The question on the survey was:

What would be your ideal Theon endgame? You can list more than one concept/scenario. It can be as unrealistic as you want. This is pure wish fulfilment.

listen i just want him to kill ramsay it'll be satisfying

Away! Free cities! Go live and be free, my beautiful damaged honeybee

Half of his ashes are buried with Robb and the rest are thrown in the sea

Asha's hand on the Iron Islands or in the wild north like Jon in the show

I'd like him to survive, but I'd like him to strike out as a common man. I'd enjoy it if he could abandon his noble origins and just be Theon.

Theon living a simple life in the North, maybe by the coast. Asha comes to visit sometimes. He can't use a bow anymore but he has a sweet old horse to keep him company.

him fighting at winterfell against the others and dying. history remembering his terrible deeds but the people who knew him remembering his acts of kindness and bravery.

i really want him to be a kind of diplomat between the iron islands and the north, moving between the two families and homes he has ever known. finally being a greyjoy and a stark

made to take the black, living out the rest of his days on the wall unrecognizable and quietly introspective, ignoring the imminent magic war. or some sort of prophet/mouthpiece of the old gods.

My ideal scenario is that Sansa is queen in the north, Asha is queen of the iron isles. Sansa/Theon is a purely political marriage alliance with Theon getting to live in Winterfell with Jeyne living there as well, and he gets to heal from trauma.

Puppet king or not even a king (but either way, Asha did use him with his consent so she could take the Seastone Chair), living in the Iron Islands. Healing, maybe with Jeyne, perhaps not. Not sure he seeks fatherhood, may be satisfied as an uncle. Possibly a prophet/diplomat to Bran's court on the Isle of Faces.

As horrible as this may sound considering he is my favorite character, I do wish that by the end of the series he's dead. Not in TWOW yet and definitely not by being executed by Stannis. I can't really say how I wished it would happen. The show version doesn't really feel exactly right for book Theon, but I still think it'd have something to do with Bran.

Get the guy to a place where he can belong. Get him to a place where he can have agency, and a purpose that he stands behind. Get him to a place where he can heal and recover as much as possible. I can also see him taking on a mentor role for children of some sort, seeing as he's haunted by the ones he killed/ordered to have killed to be placed as fBran and fRickon

I truly have no idea. Hair grows in black again 😂. Um vibing with Jon on the wall, or if Jon's not on the wall being some advisor or something for him. He could do something with Asha too. I'd like for him to talk with bran cuz it seems they've almost spoken through trees and such. I guess I'd be content if Theon was content I don't know what that looks like for him

I think it would be great if he died in a way that made him feel heroic but he was not remembered heroically. Maybe a death no one else knew about but which saved lives etc. I'd like to have someone offhandedly mention finding his body (ideally not even knowing who he is) and burying him an an unmarked grave. Nameless and landless for all eternity, not even the king of his own resting place.

My ideal Theon endgame is him returning to the Iron Islands eventually, and facing his sister/Euron again/at least once. I want his arc to entwine with Aeron's somehow, and I want more interaction with his seemingly prophetic abilities. I don't think I'd want him to stay in the Iron Islands, though. I'd like it if he eventually travelled abroad/was exiled to Essos, or another land removed from the conflict. Puppet king Theon with Asha is also great!

Idk tbh. My ideal endgame is he escapes with Robb when they are kids and go live in dorne or something lol Hmm. Actually tho. I think I would be very happy with him joining the free folk somehow. Becoming besties with mance. And then the white walkers end up being a physical manifestation of their society’s disconnection with nature and magic and suppression of different ways of life. And the free folk + bran + Daenerys, missandrei and co end up being instrumental in helping the threat end without reproducing even more violence. And Theon gets a wonderful wildling husband or wife and lives happily ever after cjvghxh

Maybe as Sansa’s king consort ? I think with all her shit marriage, this one would be her endgame, he would sometimes advise her and would aid Yara to make her peace known through the Iron Islands, maybe he would take a summer isle in Essos where he and his Queen could rest from time to time, leaving Winterfell under Jon’s command and they eventually retire there and die of old age back in the North where they belonged : Theon would die as : Theon Greyjoy Stark, King Consort of the North, Prince of Pike and the Iron Wolf. And how great it would be if Winterfell became a home to parent less children or batards, all children of Queen Sansa and King consort Theon

Alive, his hair grows in black again, he spends his life travelling across the Kingdoms for various propaganda purposes and makes meaningful connections with people of many ilks. Seer Theon who connects with the Gods of all places. Occasionally he returns to places that are significant to him as a matter of routine (the Iron Islands etc) and sees people he once knew. They're all older and scarred and only able to spend so much time in each other's company before the Pain sets in but they enjoy the spurts of connection they have. I would like to see Theon managing his chronic pain relatively successfully. The idea of him having a bastard from the before times is also appealing to me

I don't know!! I kind of hate them all. All my happy endings require no ramsay, and I don't want that. I think I'd want to know more about his post ramsay health and body to inform the answer... I'd like Asha to rule the iron Islands I think. I don't want theon to serve the starks. I don't want him to rule anything. Sometimes I think I want him to retire in a cottage but that's so sad. Consigned to a life of retirement and isolation at age 20 simply because of disability and trauma? Fuck that. I know people could visit him in the cottage but idk man. I want the narrative to leave him alone, but I want hope. He can't die. I don't need or even want him to have prestige, just security. He is 20 years old! He has his entire life ahead of him!! I really have no idea my friend.

I want him to live AND be FREE. He’s been stuck between options, he can choose one or the other or not choose at all and be punished either way - he must be given the agency he has always lacked. It could be an ending that a lot of characters need or deserve but for me: that’s Theon’s ending. After his arc it’s the one that suits him most. Like…. him realising that he struggled so much because he never knew what he really wanted, that he strived for something that would never satiate him, would never work out. And for all he’s been through and committed I can’t see him in a ruling position, or being another servant. No I want him to escape from all that. I want him to live, free to come to terms with his guilt and his suffering and that he survived his life being ruined, he survived death which means he should get to choose his new life

I would love to see him in power honestly, taking the lessons he learned and applying them. Will they be good? what has he learned about arrogance, cruelty and power? would he make a good leader? or would he just be repulsed by all those things? has he learned the right lessons? he has done a very brave and morally righteous thing but will he keep doing it in more complicated scenarios? what role hed play in saving the world from the ice zombies? would he help bran? Wouldn't it be awesome to see what he would do in the iron islands? how he would help it's people? will he keep on saving Jeyne? what will be their relationship? will probably never see any of this but something I'd really really like is that "no more fucks left to give" and "smiling through torture and broken teeth" attitude theon has on the sample chapter, seeing him interact with Asha and Jeyne would be amazing. Maybe even Dagmar and his mom...

Hmm. Some position of influence/power on the Islands (Lord Commander of the Iron Fleet, Asha’s Hand, co-ruler with Asha, something like that) and general social integration (having respect from people generally as well as managing to re-connect with old friends/acquaintances or making new ones to where he has a genuine social support network that’s not just 1 or 2 people). In my dreams, he’s also managed to recover/heal from his trauma and injuries both physically and mentally/emotionally to the furthest extent even remotely realistically possible. Which would still likely leave him with some PTSD/anxiety/etc issues but ideally at a highly manageable level and ideally his physical injuries would be compensated for as much as possible (perhaps even with some help from fantasy-magic-healing-that-mimics-modern-medicine lol) so he can still participate in normal activities from archery to dancing to fucking eating, even if with some unavoidable limitations/issues. (His hair is growing in black again after a while, you can fight me.) He’s got a close and mostly-functional relationship with Asha. I’m a little less hung up on the romantic aspect here, but if we’re talking like 100% wish fulfillment of the fuzziest sort… Married to Jeyne and still capable of procreating a child (even if they gotta get a bit creative about it), and Asha names said child her heir. (Listen. You said pure wish fulfillment was acceptable so…)

(if the last person I quoted here reads this: I am very happy you took me by my word. The more wish fulfilment people wrote for this question the better this was for my understandings!)

Also, if anyone has any other questions please feel free to send them. This took longer than usual because I was recently visited by a friend and there were some other personal impediments, but I try to get to them as fast as I can.

#speaking #Theon Greyjoy #asoiaf #theon survey #anonymous

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