this thought isn't fully formed... white women uphold white supremacy because they primarily are responsible for teaching their children racism and esp for producing white babies. They are more complicit than white men because they keep making more white men and could simply stop. They won't though because their privilege as white women is tied up with white men, thats why they work so hard to push eugenics via the abortion "rights" mvmt that they coopted from woc.

Hey nonnie!

All very valid, sadly terrifying points; you’re right, and to add: this is why (liberal) feminism, in its modern sense and all it entails to “post-colonial” society — should actually be called what it is...White FeminismTM.

White supremacist feminism works in treacherous ways, leeching off the burdened, hard-working backs of BIWOC/WOC on the ground. Some love to forget that white women were granted the right to vote first, while BIWOC/WOC fell decades behind in achieving this. Worse, we’re always going to be at a disadvantage legally, economically, and socially. Our upward mobility as womxn of colour is long and arduous — always poisoned by both the complicity and active strategies of white women who are so damn consistent in their appropriation + colonization of our spaces, cultures, and lands over many years. They side with their white men, reflecting and enabling white supremacist imperialism down to the bowels of gentrification.

Unfortunately, white women do struggle with being true BIPOC/POC allies due to all this internalized white supremacist imperial colonialism and more. I was moderating a white privilege workshop a few years ago, and white women are complicated; they tend to elevate their own emotions, centralize their experiences and cry their white tears “as women”, accidentally and/or purposely overlooking the racist microaggressions of such behaviour (hello white fragility), but because they’re white women they’re more visible in the public arena — more able to push for what they want and easily garnering sympathy, which means pushing for the continuation of white supremacy with their men and the replication of white power via reproductive rights. To them, intersectionality and intersectional perspectives don’t belong anywhere. Being a white woman means, at its core, upholding Whiteness. It means upholding gendered, privileged, binary cishet nuclear ideals — grounded in white supremacy — of what it means to be a woman, no matter how much white women are portrayed as “breaking the mould, pioneering this or that, going LGBTQIA+, swimming against the current, destroying stereotypes” etc. For centuries, womxn of colour (especially LGBTQIA+ womxn of colour) already engaged in that labour, but we never were and still aren’t properly acknowledged, prioritized, or paid reparations for the knowledge and ways of life that white women stole from us. Once again, crimes against BIWOC/WOC are grossly underreported within a white supremacist justice system. Indigenous and Black womxn lead endless waves of social activism on the frontlines, fraught by the trappings of whiteness. White women must ally with BIWOC/WOC by giving up their privilege for themselves and using it to empower. Only then can true feminism be unleashed in that feminism is inherently intersectional and antiracist.

Wow that was heavy, but I’d love to hear more of your thoughts, anon. Thanks for opening up! <3 I’ll direct you to this raw read by Rachel Cargle: https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/politics/a22717725/what-is-toxic-white-feminism/ It’s too relatable.

Would the POC members of the SPN community be amenable to tagging their posts on Tumblr/AO3 with a tag such as 'POC Creator' or 'POC SPN' in order to assist non-POC like myself and other POC fandom members in finding content created by POC fandom members?

I'd love to support more POC fandom members and to educate myself on representation via an actual POC, but I know that for safety concerns a lot of POC do not display their ethnicity on their profiles, and it seems horrifically rude to message people and ask.

I know this would potentially make it easier for assholes to find POC creators, but I'd really love to be able to support and interact more with the POC members of the fandom who've gone ignored and oppressed for so long.

Hi nonnie!

Wow, thanks for this - it’s a really interesting question!

Hm, safety concerns — and what POC perceive as unsafe — differ between individuals/groups of colour, but in general, as a POC I wouldn’t be amenable to identifying any of my fanworks as ‘POC-made’ via tags etc unless I make the conscious choice to do it on some days. Contexts and situations also matter. For example, I’m posting on a POC-run blog. The audience is BI/POC / white allies. So it’s logical for me to tag this as ‘poc’ or ‘mod: naruhearts’ (since I’ve made it clear that I’m POC). Another example is me self-identifying on twitter as a POC, which elevates my ethnic identity and allows me to carry out social activism + find other POC with whom to share solidarity and safe spaces; I’d use tags like #POCOpinions or #Filipinx4BlackLives (I use the latter more). Keep in mind that I do all this with the conscious thought that I’m opening myself up to white supremacy, but it’s still my autonomous choice to tag myself as such and form an online POC identity.

Fanfics and fancreations, however, can belong in a different realm. POC creators may or may not choose to make their POC and ethnic identit(ies) clear. I’d say that your job is to set aside assumptions. That includes assuming any person you come across within differing social platforms is white. It lies with you to advocate cultural awareness using your privilege, exercise cultural sensitivity, and dismantle any perceptions of Whiteness that may negatively impact your ability to engage with POC creators safely. On the other hand, it’s a fine line as well when it comes to the internet, since white people can absolutely disguise themselves and endanger POC.

If you want to support our communities without doing anything untoward as a white ally, a good place to start is to seek POC fanworks, businesses etc. How do they present themselves? What is important to them as creators/business owners? How do they engage with white audiences and allies? We may or may not want to draw any attention to ourselves. Then, one of the most important things you must do is ask. Ask POC what you can do to show your support/maintain our safety — what you can do to create safe POC spaces and tag systems — instead of making the suggestion first as a non-POC person. That way, you can present that your intentions are genuine, which paves the way for change.

Signal boost!!!!

Hello!

We’re a small and new discord server aimed at POC fans of Supernatural to talk about the show! We’ve got an array of channels, including ones for sharing fanwork, reaction rolemenus, PluralKit, and role-specific channels.

For security reasons, we’ve got an application system; please fill out this form and we’ll get you an invite soon.

omg late reply but thank you so much for including us 😭🙏🏾 We’re humbled and grateful that you consider our work meaningful!!

amazing blogs that made 2020 a little better

I’ve been seeing other people do this and I thought it would be a nice thing for myself to do to remember all the amazing people I’ve interacted with in 2020. Hasn’t been the best year obviously, but it’s had some pretty amazing people in it! so here’s my 2020 “follow forever” as it were

first I want to give a shout-out to the blogs I’ve been following since before 15x18 dropped, pre-spn renaissance lol: @meatman67(love you blaze) @waywardsunlight @subcas @kingofthecrxssroads @tinkdw @amwritingmeta @shirtlesssammy @celestialcastiel @naruhearts @purgatory-jar @castiels-tight-grip @fandomcolourofmyskin @wanderingcas @godshipsit @thelordsoftherings @casgirl @jellydeans @friedchickenangelwings @butchboromir @deancasendgame @heller-jensen @prayedtoyou

(I might have the timeline of when I’ve followed people mixed up lol but) and of course the blogs that I have been in the trenches with post November 5th: @katebushstandean @antifacas @dreamnovak @fluorescentbrains @depressivedemonnightmaredean @deanwinchesterapologist @autisticandroids @deanofcas @deansasslesschaps @samdyke @procrastinatingbisexual @robbieross @wlwcastiel @castielesbian @sunforgrace @roguecas @supernatural2005 @jenderoftheday @thatisahotsoup @thrashersasuke @americachavez @dykecas @castaell @retrogratorade @belajess @ruthieconnells @deanscaps

(mutuals in bold)

and of course thank you to all of the content creators who I don’t follow but whose stuff I have read, reblogged, and overall loved. and thank you to everyone who I’ve interacted with this last year, and especially the last two months. it’s been so nice to get to share something with you all!!

what does BIPOC mean? I'm sorry for my ignorance

Where Did BIPOC Come From? by Sandra E. Garcia || The New York Times, June 17 2020

In recent weeks, as protests against police brutality and racism have flooded the streets and social media, another more inclusive term has been ascribed to the population: BIPOC.

The acronym stands for “black, Indigenous and people of color.” Though it is now ubiquitous in some corners of Twitter and Instagram, the earliest reference The New York Times could find on social media was a 2013 tweet.

As a phrase, “people of color” dates back centuries — it was first cited in The Oxford English Dictionary, with the British spelling “colour,” in 1796 — and is often abbreviated as POC. The other two letters, for black and Indigenous, were included in the acronym to account for the erasure of black people with darker skin and Native American people, according to Cynthia Frisby, a professor of strategic communication at the Missouri School of Journalism.

“The black and Indigenous was added to kind of make sure that it was inclusive,” Ms. Frisby said. “I think the major purpose of that was for including voices that hadn’t originally been heard that they wanted to include in the narrative, darker skin, blacks and Indigenous groups, so that they could make sure that all the skin shades are being represented.”

Charmaine Nelson, an art history professor at McGill University, said that the history of black and Indigenous people in Canada calls for the distinction between them and other people of color. In some parts of Canada, mainly east of Ontario, Indigenous people were colonized but not enslaved, she said, unlike Africans who were subjected to chattel slavery everywhere.

“We understand that under colonialism African and Indigenous people had very different experiences,” Dr. Nelson said. “To conflate everything in one is to erase, which is the very nature of genocidal practice.”

Omggg! I just want to say thank you for your blog. This fandom especially is overwhelmingly white and interacting with it and having to call out a lot of the racism/anti-blackness often for feels like I’m shouting into the void so seeing your blog and another POC involved with spn honestly makes my heart soft. Thank you!

OMG anon!

I’m so happy you found us <3 and SAME, my heart just grew bigger!

Also, we 100% relate: our small yet humble group of colour no doubt experienced similar racist lived experiences as you in this fandom, which is why I sought to create FCS for BIPOC solidarity. 3 of us are BIPOC (4 mods in total run our blog as of now; 1 is a white ally). 

As to the neverending work we do - we try our best both online and IRL! Feel free to scroll through our About, Resources, and FAQ links in the sidebar *hugs*

FAQ - Updated (Nov 2020)

1. Can BIPOC fans ask questions and seek advice?

Yes, of course. Our ask box will always be open.

2. Can I ask questions anonymously?

Yes. We won’t reveal anyone’s personal/fandom identity unless we’re told/given permission.

3. Is this blog a safe space?

We always intend for our blog to be an inclusive and safe space, and the protection of BIPOC/WOC/intersectional perspectives are of tantamount importance to us. Hate speech will be filtered as well as reported if possible.

4. I’m a BIPOC and I don’t feel comfortable asking questions pertaining to BIPOC issues publicly. Can I send you direct messages?

Yes. Feel free to send direct messages to Monika (naruhearts), destiel-is-real-idgaf or dusky-gold – they are our sole BIPOC members as of now.

5. Will you add more BIPOC/intersectional BIPOC Supernatural fans as co-authors/admins/mods of the blog?

Yes! This is the key tenet of our blog: to empower and encourage BIPOC fans to share their perspectives on tough race-based and intersectional issues underpinning Supernatural fandom and production as well as advocate for BIPOC representation. However, in order for us to effectively achieve this, there must be willing BIPOC/intersectional BIPOC/queer BIPOC fans present as co-authors/admins/mods. Membership is 100% voluntary, and one can withdraw or take a break if needed.

6. Are white/white-identifying/light-skinned identifying Supernatural fans not allowed to engage with this blog and/or become co-authors/admins?

FCS is anti-Whiteness, and white people uphold Whiteness (white supremacy). White people are allowed to engage only if they create a SAFE SPACE for BIPOC by listening, learning, and dismantling their own white privilege and white positionalities.  

Our overarching mission is to include all marginalized non-white races in conjunction with intersectional discourses of gender, social class, religion, and sexual orientation. We want to centralize and emphasize BIPOC fan perspectives that are continuously dwarfed, sidelined and ostracized by the hegemonic white Supernatural fandom and/or production lens.

Therefore, white people who disagree with our mission and/or create unsafe spaces for BIPOC while interacting with this blog are strongly advised to head elsewhere.

7. Are you going to offer virtual panels/livestreams/podcasts?

FCS is in its very early stages, but we’re considering interactive activities for the future!

for me it’s less abt the queerbaiting or destiel or anything, it’s more about the inherent racism in spn and therefore also the inherent racism in the fandom, that’s mostly white, and how people completely gloss over it. i’ve noticed how fans of colour seem to drift away from spn after a while. i used to love spn, used to love destiel, used to love the brothers, but the racism on the daily and just the micro aggressions got to me. not saying you do that, but. that’s my pov. anyway hope ur well

hi anon, thanks for saying this (and that's not sarcasm). I do think we as a fandom used to talk more about the racism in spn than we do now, and that's obviously a problem. I want to make it very clear that while it might not look like it right now (because I'm riding a high and I love these two dorks so much), I do see and acknowledge the (many) flaws in this show. It's been awful to its characters of color (and especially women of color), and I know the fandom also has its issues too, and I completely see how that could push you and other fans away for good. There's no way I can really understand your experience but I am sorry it ruined the enjoyment of something you loved, everyone deserves to feel comfortable in fan spaces and everyone should be able to enjoy media safely.

this is a conversation we really need to be having more often so I really want to shout out/point everyone to @fandomcolourofmyskin who do a lot of good work on spn + racism and also compile a ton of resources--on racism in general, racism in fan spaces, and in spn specifically. Their infographic here is great. If anyone else knows of any resources on spn + racism specifically (off the top of their head, I’m not asking for serious emotional labor) and wants to drop them in the notes please do :) I know @nerdsagainstfandomracism is a great resource but they don’t cover spn specifically. 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you realize that this show is explicitly about the poor, Midwestern white male experience? They lack privilege on multiple levels which the show explores (sa m the janitor, Dean the grunt), and all of the queer issues stem almost directly from the poor white male's low level of self determination/ agency or the perception thereof I'm a poor whitish person from a similar area, and it feels unique to see a poor white show that isn't Roseanne.

Hi nonnie,

I have a lot of things to say in response to your message — which does display ignorance of societal organization across systemic racial lines — but without creating a huge extensive post, here are some crucial points to consider:

- The “poor Midwestern white male experience” does NOT discount the insulated bubble of white privilege that Sam and Dean Winchester occupy, and neither is Supernatural immune from racist narratives and/or racist character implementation (especially ‘cause SPN has predominantly white production crew/writers around the table. Again, any literary narrative or script they conceive can and most likely will be influenced by internalized unconscious white dominance —> white-painted narratives perceived by POC viewers. I mean, scour this blog/google ‘Supernatural and racism’ and you’ll get the picture.)

- Additionally, stating that the show is “explicitly about” the poor Midwestern white male experience is false. Yes, you’re a poor white person from a similar area, and so you believe that, as a white person, the show’s premise reflects your experience. However, your statement doesn’t represent reality. The racial blind spot here is: media consumption by (realities of) white people will not equate to media consumption by (realities of) POC.

As I said here, we cannot talk about other systemic forces like socioeconomic class without addressing race. Race is inherently interweaved into other structural dimensions. It’s why BIPOC (Black Indigenous POC) + POC are: statistically paid less than white employees, unequally treated in terms of job capability, encounter unconscious bias across the hiring market, struggle to find jobs, unable to afford three-story suburban houses, and can never seem to find favour no matter how hard we work.

Reni Eddo-Lodge reiterates what white privilege is. When we say ‘white privilege’, we aren’t referring to white people always having it easy, or living in the lap of material wealth (but economic race disparities are instrinsically linked to material wealth), or lacking suffering, or living in poverty.

White privilege: the unearned set of societal benefits, advantages, and positive attitudes/behaviours bestowed upon white people solely because they are white (because of the pale/white colour of their skin). Claiming that Sam and Dean “lack privilege on multiple levels” perpetuates the continuous erasure of the POC reality, as well as intersectional BI+POC realities (being PoC, queer, and disabled, etc). What’s our reality? We actually lack privilege on multiple levels because of the colour of our skin. Your claim could imply that white privilege isn’t a thing, but it is. Think of white privilege as the air we breathe: it’s there, and we’re surrounded by it, and we breathe it in, yet because air is mostly invisible, some people aren’t always aware of it until you tell ‘em “Hey dude, did you know you’re inhaling oxygen?” The answer would be: “Obviously. Idk why you’re pointing that out - I already know that. You saying I’m dumb?” (lol not too far off from white defensiveness, right?) White people are so used to their privilege that they feel weird, ‘uncomfortable’ and ‘unsafe’ once people of colour point out their privilege. They subconsciously (and consciously) refuse to lose their place at the top. They’ll be offended.

To address your message, specifically — Sam and Dean hold white privilege as white men despite being poor. This is an uncomfortable fact that white SPN audiences must acknowledge.

If translated into real life, Sam and Dean will walk inside a bar and not be suspected of crime at first glance. They won’t look suspicious. They won’t get physically assaulted, shot at, killed, and/or lynched, both by police and fellow white men. They can speak, eat, and behave however they please without getting kicked out. They’ll chase after people they wanna bang or make inappropriate moves without being accused of sexual harrassment; BI+POC are typically falsely accused. (*Bonus Salt incoming* Sam and Dean won’t die permanently on their own show. The BI+PoC allies they have are often killed off to forward their plot and channel white manpain, then embody racist narrative tropes. As an Asian, Kevin Tran’s Stereotypical-Asian presence upset me, and his death further hurt my sensibilities. It did not shock me at all to see yet another Asian character killed off. Again, I must mention the horrible Asian-fetishist-exotificating Busty Asian Beauties, as well. Heck, S8 episode title “What’s Up Tiger Mommy?” was blatantly racist that I can’t believe no one demanded they change the episode premise + Kevin and Linda Tran’s characterizations. JUST KIDDING, of course I know why no one emphasized the issue - there are barely any BI+PoC in the writer’s room. This is why hiring us must become important).

Unfortunately - and unlike your opinion - Supernatural is not “unique” for us BI+PoC fans. It’s a show manned by predominantly white cast/crew that centralizes two white men and their respective narrow realities. We don’t live in a bubble. We’re everywhere. Depict us properly, with cultural/racial sensitivity, in entertainment, media, art forms, and more. Acknowledge our lack of privilege on multiple levels.

We live within a society set up for people of colour to fail. Whiteness is the default, and the privilege intrinsically linked to that ensconces an entire array of political, social, cultural and economic structures advantaging white people while disadvantaging People of Colour.

You’re a poor white person. I’m not, and the likelihood of the white poor person being given an opportunity to escape poverty is statistically MUCH, MUCH higher than the likelihood of poor POC to escape poverty.

Welcome! This is the first video of my series where I talk about television shows, starting with SUPERNATURAL.

I discuss the first 3 seasons of Supernatural. My likes, dislikes, and the mention some of the issues I have with how Supernatural treats black people (specifically Gordon Walker).

I want to thank @fandomcolourofmyskin for allowing me to mention them and for the work they do to talk about these issues! ♥

Ive gotta say, after reading your post yesterday, I watched a couple of episodes last night with new eyes. I love SPN but it's also fair to explore the ways that the show (and entertainment in general) can improve. Thanks for sharing!

👍🏾 Awesome! This is why our blog exists — to highlight the important issues of racial justice that a predominantly white/historically white-helmed entertainment industry (a generally white supremacist world) often sweeps under the rug.

Don’t get us wrong - we’re all SPN fans who adore the show, but in our eyes of colour, it’s fundamental to criticize and point out racial injustice in all its forms; it causes us racial pain and trauma to see us and our realities/stories/histories be mischaracterized, misrepresented, and improperly portrayed. For centuries, we weren’t - and aren’t - valued as much as white lives.

We exist. We should matter. We should be seen. Entertainment - especially media art forms like TV shows and pop culture - reflects reality in that they serve as mediums to perpetuate certain worldviews, perspectives, and belief systems. The White cishet male perspective always dominates - it can oppress, suppress and repress through media.

All lives can’t matter until Black lives matter - until BIPOC/POC lives matter.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you realize that this show is explicitly about the poor, Midwestern white male experience? They lack privilege on multiple levels which the show explores (sa m the janitor, Dean the grunt), and all of the queer issues stem almost directly from the poor white male's low level of self determination/ agency or the perception thereof I'm a poor whitish person from a similar area, and it feels unique to see a poor white show that isn't Roseanne.

Hi nonnie,

I have a lot of things to say in response to your message — which does display ignorance of societal organization across systemic racial lines — but without creating a huge extensive post, here are some crucial points to consider:

- The “poor Midwestern white male experience” does NOT discount the insulated bubble of white privilege that Sam and Dean Winchester occupy, and neither is Supernatural immune from racist narratives and/or racist character implementation (especially ‘cause SPN has predominantly white production crew/writers around the table. Again, any literary narrative or script they conceive can and most likely will be influenced by internalized unconscious white dominance —> white-painted narratives perceived by POC viewers. I mean, scour this blog/google ‘Supernatural and racism’ and you’ll get the picture.)

- Additionally, stating that the show is “explicitly about” the poor Midwestern white male experience is false. Yes, you’re a poor white person from a similar area, and so you believe that, as a white person, the show’s premise reflects your experience. However, your statement doesn’t represent reality. The racial blind spot here is: media consumption by (realities of) white people will not equate to media consumption by (realities of) POC.

As I said here, we cannot talk about other systemic forces like socioeconomic class without addressing race. Race is inherently interweaved into other structural dimensions. It’s why BIPOC (Black Indigenous POC) + POC are: statistically paid less than white employees, unequally treated in terms of job capability, encounter unconscious bias across the hiring market, struggle to find jobs, unable to afford three-story suburban houses, and can never seem to find favour no matter how hard we work.

Reni Eddo-Lodge reiterates what white privilege is. When we say ‘white privilege’, we aren’t referring to white people always having it easy, or living in the lap of material wealth (but economic race disparities are instrinsically linked to material wealth), or lacking suffering, or living in poverty.

White privilege: the unearned set of societal benefits, advantages, and positive attitudes/behaviours bestowed upon white people solely because they are white (because of the pale/white colour of their skin). Claiming that Sam and Dean “lack privilege on multiple levels” perpetuates the continuous erasure of the POC reality, as well as intersectional BI+POC realities (being PoC, queer, and disabled, etc). What’s our reality? We actually lack privilege on multiple levels because of the colour of our skin. Your claim could imply that white privilege isn’t a thing, but it is. Think of white privilege as the air we breathe: it’s there, and we’re surrounded by it, and we breathe it in, yet because air is mostly invisible, some people aren’t always aware of it until you tell ‘em “Hey dude, did you know you’re inhaling oxygen?” The answer would be: “Obviously. Idk why you’re pointing that out - I already know that. You saying I’m dumb?” (lol not too far off from white defensiveness, right?) White people are so used to their privilege that they feel weird, ‘uncomfortable’ and ‘unsafe’ once people of colour point out their privilege. They subconsciously (and consciously) refuse to lose their place at the top. They’ll be offended.

To address your message, specifically — Sam and Dean hold white privilege as white men despite being poor. This is an uncomfortable fact that white SPN audiences must acknowledge.

If translated into real life, Sam and Dean will walk inside a bar and not be suspected of crime at first glance. They won’t look suspicious. They won’t get physically assaulted, shot at, killed, and/or lynched, both by police and fellow white men. They can speak, eat, and behave however they please without getting kicked out. They’ll chase after people they wanna bang or make inappropriate moves without being accused of sexual harrassment; BI+POC are typically falsely accused. (*Bonus Salt incoming* Sam and Dean won’t die permanently on their own show. The BI+PoC allies they have are often killed off to forward their plot and channel white manpain, then embody racist narrative tropes. As an Asian, Kevin Tran’s Stereotypical-Asian presence upset me, and his death further hurt my sensibilities. It did not shock me at all to see yet another Asian character killed off. Again, I must mention the horrible Asian-fetishist-exotificating Busty Asian Beauties, as well. Heck, S8 episode title “What’s Up Tiger Mommy?” was blatantly racist that I can’t believe no one demanded they change the episode premise + Kevin and Linda Tran’s characterizations. JUST KIDDING, of course I know why no one emphasized the issue - there are barely any BI+PoC in the writer’s room. This is why hiring us must become important).

Unfortunately - and unlike your opinion - Supernatural is not “unique” for us BI+PoC fans. It’s a show manned by predominantly white cast/crew that centralizes two white men and their respective narrow realities. We don’t live in a bubble. We’re everywhere. Depict us properly, with cultural/racial sensitivity, in entertainment, media, art forms, and more. Acknowledge our lack of privilege on multiple levels.

We live within a society set up for people of colour to fail. Whiteness is the default, and the privilege intrinsically linked to that ensconces an entire array of political, social, cultural and economic structures advantaging white people while disadvantaging People of Colour.

You’re a poor white person. I’m not, and the likelihood of the white poor person being given an opportunity to escape poverty is statistically MUCH, MUCH higher than the likelihood of poor POC to escape poverty.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you realize that this show is explicitly about the poor, Midwestern white male experience? They lack privilege on multiple levels which the show explores (sa m the janitor, Dean the grunt), and all of the queer issues stem almost directly from the poor white male's low level of self determination/ agency or the perception thereof I'm a poor whitish person from a similar area, and it feels unique to see a poor white show that isn't Roseanne.

Hi nonnie,

I have a lot of things to say in response to your message — which does display ignorance of societal organization across systemic racial lines — but without creating a huge extensive post, here are some crucial points to consider:

- The “poor Midwestern white male experience” does NOT discount the insulated bubble of white privilege that Sam and Dean Winchester occupy, and neither is Supernatural immune from racist narratives and/or racist character implementation (especially ‘cause SPN has predominantly white production crew/writers around the table. Again, any literary narrative or script they conceive can and most likely will be influenced by internalized unconscious white dominance —> white-painted narratives perceived by POC viewers. I mean, scour this blog/google ‘Supernatural and racism’ and you’ll get the picture.)

- Additionally, stating that the show is “explicitly about” the poor Midwestern white male experience is false. Yes, you’re a poor white person from a similar area, and so you believe that, as a white person, the show’s premise reflects your experience. However, your statement doesn’t represent reality. The racial blind spot here is: media consumption by (realities of) white people will not equate to media consumption by (realities of) POC.

As I said here, we cannot talk about other systemic forces like socioeconomic class without addressing race. Race is inherently interweaved into other structural dimensions. It’s why BIPOC (Black Indigenous POC) + POC are: statistically paid less than white employees, unequally treated in terms of job capability, encounter unconscious bias across the hiring market, struggle to find jobs, unable to afford three-story suburban houses, and can never seem to find favour no matter how hard we work.

Reni Eddo-Lodge reiterates what white privilege is. When we say ‘white privilege’, we aren’t referring to white people always having it easy, or living in the lap of material wealth (but economic race disparities are instrinsically linked to material wealth), or lacking suffering, or living in poverty.

White privilege: the unearned set of societal benefits, advantages, and positive attitudes/behaviours bestowed upon white people solely because they are white (because of the pale/white colour of their skin). Claiming that Sam and Dean “lack privilege on multiple levels” perpetuates the continuous erasure of the POC reality, as well as intersectional BI+POC realities (being PoC, queer, and disabled, etc). What’s our reality? We actually lack privilege on multiple levels because of the colour of our skin. Your claim could imply that white privilege isn’t a thing, but it is. Think of white privilege as the air we breathe: it’s there, and we’re surrounded by it, and we breathe it in, yet because air is mostly invisible, some people aren’t always aware of it until you tell ‘em “Hey dude, did you know you’re inhaling oxygen?” The answer would be: “Obviously. Idk why you’re pointing that out - I already know that. You saying I’m dumb?” (lol not too far off from white defensiveness, right?) White people are so used to their privilege that they feel weird, ‘uncomfortable’ and ‘unsafe’ once people of colour point out their privilege. They subconsciously (and consciously) refuse to lose their place at the top. They’ll be offended.

To address your message, specifically — Sam and Dean hold white privilege as white men despite being poor. This is an uncomfortable fact that white SPN audiences must acknowledge.

If translated into real life, Sam and Dean will walk inside a bar and not be suspected of crime at first glance. They won’t look suspicious. They won’t get physically assaulted, shot at, killed, and/or lynched, both by police and fellow white men. They can speak, eat, and behave however they please without getting kicked out. They’ll chase after people they wanna bang or make inappropriate moves without being accused of sexual harrassment; BI+POC are typically falsely accused. (*Bonus Salt incoming* Sam and Dean won’t die permanently on their own show. The BI+PoC allies they have are often killed off to forward their plot and channel white manpain, then embody racist narrative tropes. As an Asian, Kevin Tran’s Stereotypical-Asian presence upset me, and his death further hurt my sensibilities. It did not shock me at all to see yet another Asian character killed off. Again, I must mention the horrible Asian-fetishist-exotificating Busty Asian Beauties, as well. Heck, S8 episode title “What’s Up Tiger Mommy?” was blatantly racist that I can’t believe no one demanded they change the episode premise + Kevin and Linda Tran’s characterizations. JUST KIDDING, of course I know why no one emphasized the issue - there are barely any BI+PoC in the writer’s room. This is why hiring us must become important).

Unfortunately - and unlike your opinion - Supernatural is not “unique” for us BI+PoC fans. It’s a show manned by predominantly white cast/crew that centralizes two white men and their respective narrow realities. We don’t live in a bubble. We’re everywhere. Depict us properly, with cultural/racial sensitivity, in entertainment, media, art forms, and more. Acknowledge our lack of privilege on multiple levels.

We live within a society set up for people of colour to fail. Whiteness is the default, and the privilege intrinsically linked to that ensconces an entire array of political, social, cultural and economic structures advantaging white people while disadvantaging People of Colour.

You’re a poor white person. I’m not, and the likelihood of the white poor person being given an opportunity to escape poverty is statistically MUCH, MUCH higher than the likelihood of poor POC to escape poverty.

@funnywings ^^^ Exactly this.

Indeed weird that they “borrow” non-white ethnic supernatural mythology/folklore/cultural elements without recruiting BI+PoC cast who can appropriately portray these racial narratives. Supernatural’s Americana foundations are entirely devoid of proper BI+PoC influence (when America has been historically built on white supremacist colonization: the extermination of Indigenous people, the devalued and racially exploited social status of Asian immigrants, the enslavement of Black people via capitalization of Black + Indigenous/PoC human slave labour, you name it - know your history), and any attempts to incorporate BI+PoC narratives/characters have been so poor :/ It’s getting better, but they still face a WAYS to go, and the last season hasn’t done anything truly racially groundbreaking except for elevating Billie and her importance/dominance over current affairs as well as giving Kaia back (she’s finally living with Jody and the girls in happiness, but will we see her again? Unless there’s a final gathering of all characters for the series finale, we most likely won’t receive any sufficient updates, and she won’t get sufficient screentime).

We’re always excluded from white-helmed media - from history. SPN is no exception.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you realize that this show is explicitly about the poor, Midwestern white male experience? They lack privilege on multiple levels which the show explores (sa m the janitor, Dean the grunt), and all of the queer issues stem almost directly from the poor white male's low level of self determination/ agency or the perception thereof I'm a poor whitish person from a similar area, and it feels unique to see a poor white show that isn't Roseanne.

Hi nonnie,

I have a lot of things to say in response to your message — which does display ignorance of societal organization across systemic racial lines — but without creating a huge extensive post, here are some crucial points to consider:

- The “poor Midwestern white male experience” does NOT discount the insulated bubble of white privilege that Sam and Dean Winchester occupy, and neither is Supernatural immune from racist narratives and/or racist character implementation (especially ‘cause SPN has predominantly white production crew/writers around the table. Again, any literary narrative or script they conceive can and most likely will be influenced by internalized unconscious white dominance —> white-painted narratives perceived by POC viewers. I mean, scour this blog/google ‘Supernatural and racism’ and you’ll get the picture.)

- Additionally, stating that the show is “explicitly about” the poor Midwestern white male experience is false. Yes, you’re a poor white person from a similar area, and so you believe that, as a white person, the show’s premise reflects your experience. However, your statement doesn’t represent reality. The racial blind spot here is: media consumption by (realities of) white people will not equate to media consumption by (realities of) POC.

As I said here, we cannot talk about other systemic forces like socioeconomic class without addressing race. Race is inherently interweaved into other structural dimensions. It’s why BIPOC (Black Indigenous POC) + POC are: statistically paid less than white employees, unequally treated in terms of job capability, encounter unconscious bias across the hiring market, struggle to find jobs, unable to afford three-story suburban houses, and can never seem to find favour no matter how hard we work.

Reni Eddo-Lodge reiterates what white privilege is. When we say ‘white privilege’, we aren’t referring to white people always having it easy, or living in the lap of material wealth (but economic race disparities are instrinsically linked to material wealth), or lacking suffering, or living in poverty.

White privilege: the unearned set of societal benefits, advantages, and positive attitudes/behaviours bestowed upon white people solely because they are white (because of the pale/white colour of their skin). Claiming that Sam and Dean “lack privilege on multiple levels” perpetuates the continuous erasure of the POC reality, as well as intersectional BI+POC realities (being PoC, queer, and disabled, etc). What’s our reality? We actually lack privilege on multiple levels because of the colour of our skin. Your claim could imply that white privilege isn’t a thing, but it is. Think of white privilege as the air we breathe: it’s there, and we’re surrounded by it, and we breathe it in, yet because air is mostly invisible, some people aren’t always aware of it until you tell ‘em “Hey dude, did you know you’re inhaling oxygen?” The answer would be: “Obviously. Idk why you’re pointing that out - I already know that. You saying I’m dumb?” (lol not too far off from white defensiveness, right?) White people are so used to their privilege that they feel weird, ‘uncomfortable’ and ‘unsafe’ once people of colour point out their privilege. They subconsciously (and consciously) refuse to lose their place at the top. They’ll be offended.

To address your message, specifically — Sam and Dean hold white privilege as white men despite being poor. This is an uncomfortable fact that white SPN audiences must acknowledge.

If translated into real life, Sam and Dean will walk inside a bar and not be suspected of crime at first glance. They won’t look suspicious. They won’t get physically assaulted, shot at, killed, and/or lynched, both by police and fellow white men. They can speak, eat, and behave however they please without getting kicked out. They’ll chase after people they wanna bang or make inappropriate moves without being accused of sexual harrassment; BI+POC are typically falsely accused. (*Bonus Salt incoming* Sam and Dean won’t die permanently on their own show. The BI+PoC allies they have are often killed off to forward their plot and channel white manpain, then embody racist narrative tropes. As an Asian, Kevin Tran’s Stereotypical-Asian presence upset me, and his death further hurt my sensibilities. It did not shock me at all to see yet another Asian character killed off. Again, I must mention the horrible Asian-fetishist-exotificating Busty Asian Beauties, as well. Heck, S8 episode title “What’s Up Tiger Mommy?” was blatantly racist that I can’t believe no one demanded they change the episode premise + Kevin and Linda Tran’s characterizations. JUST KIDDING, of course I know why no one emphasized the issue - there are barely any BI+PoC in the writer’s room. This is why hiring us must become important).

Unfortunately - and unlike your opinion - Supernatural is not “unique” for us BI+PoC fans. It’s a show manned by predominantly white cast/crew that centralizes two white men and their respective narrow realities. We don’t live in a bubble. We’re everywhere. Depict us properly, with cultural/racial sensitivity, in entertainment, media, art forms, and more. Acknowledge our lack of privilege on multiple levels.

We live within a society set up for people of colour to fail. Whiteness is the default, and the privilege intrinsically linked to that ensconces an entire array of political, social, cultural and economic structures advantaging white people while disadvantaging People of Colour.

You’re a poor white person. I’m not, and the likelihood of the white poor person being given an opportunity to escape poverty is statistically MUCH, MUCH higher than the likelihood of poor POC to escape poverty.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you realize that this show is explicitly about the poor, Midwestern white male experience? They lack privilege on multiple levels which the show explores (sa m the janitor, Dean the grunt), and all of the queer issues stem almost directly from the poor white male's low level of self determination/ agency or the perception thereof I'm a poor whitish person from a similar area, and it feels unique to see a poor white show that isn't Roseanne.

Hi nonnie,

I have a lot of things to say in response to your message — which does display ignorance of societal organization across systemic racial lines — but without creating a huge extensive post, here are some crucial points to consider:

- The “poor Midwestern white male experience” does NOT discount the insulated bubble of white privilege that Sam and Dean Winchester occupy, and neither is Supernatural immune from racist narratives and/or racist character implementation (especially ‘cause SPN has predominantly white production crew/writers around the table. Again, any literary narrative or script they conceive can and most likely will be influenced by internalized unconscious white dominance —> white-painted narratives perceived by POC viewers. I mean, scour this blog/google ‘Supernatural and racism’ and you’ll get the picture.)

- Additionally, stating that the show is “explicitly about” the poor Midwestern white male experience is false. Yes, you’re a poor white person from a similar area, and so you believe that, as a white person, the show’s premise reflects your experience. However, your statement doesn’t represent reality. The racial blind spot here is: media consumption by (realities of) white people will not equate to media consumption by (realities of) POC.

As I said here, we cannot talk about other systemic forces like socioeconomic class without addressing race. Race is inherently interweaved into other structural dimensions. It’s why BIPOC (Black Indigenous POC) + POC are: statistically paid less than white employees, unequally treated in terms of job capability, encounter unconscious bias across the hiring market, struggle to find jobs, unable to afford three-story suburban houses, and can never seem to find favour no matter how hard we work.

Reni Eddo-Lodge reiterates what white privilege is. When we say ‘white privilege’, we aren’t referring to white people always having it easy, or living in the lap of material wealth (but economic race disparities are instrinsically linked to material wealth), or lacking suffering, or living in poverty.

White privilege: the unearned set of societal benefits, advantages, and positive attitudes/behaviours bestowed upon white people solely because they are white (because of the pale/white colour of their skin). Claiming that Sam and Dean “lack privilege on multiple levels” perpetuates the continuous erasure of the POC reality, as well as intersectional BI+POC realities (being PoC, queer, and disabled, etc). What’s our reality? We actually lack privilege on multiple levels because of the colour of our skin. Your claim could imply that white privilege isn’t a thing, but it is. Think of white privilege as the air we breathe: it’s there, and we’re surrounded by it, and we breathe it in, yet because air is mostly invisible, some people aren’t always aware of it until you tell ‘em “Hey dude, did you know you’re inhaling oxygen?” The answer would be: “Obviously. Idk why you’re pointing that out - I already know that. You saying I’m dumb?” (lol not too far off from white defensiveness, right?) White people are so used to their privilege that they feel weird, ‘uncomfortable’ and ‘unsafe’ once people of colour point out their privilege. They subconsciously (and consciously) refuse to lose their place at the top. They’ll be offended.

To address your message, specifically — Sam and Dean hold white privilege as white men despite being poor. This is an uncomfortable fact that white SPN audiences must acknowledge.

If translated into real life, Sam and Dean will walk inside a bar and not be suspected of crime at first glance. They won’t look suspicious. They won’t get physically assaulted, shot at, killed, and/or lynched, both by police and fellow white men. They can speak, eat, and behave however they please without getting kicked out. They’ll chase after people they wanna bang or make inappropriate moves without being accused of sexual harrassment; BI+POC are typically falsely accused. (*Bonus Salt incoming* Sam and Dean won’t die permanently on their own show. The BI+PoC allies they have are often killed off to forward their plot and channel white manpain, then embody racist narrative tropes. As an Asian, Kevin Tran’s Stereotypical-Asian presence upset me, and his death further hurt my sensibilities. It did not shock me at all to see yet another Asian character killed off. Again, I must mention the horrible Asian-fetishist-exotificating Busty Asian Beauties, as well. Heck, S8 episode title “What’s Up Tiger Mommy?” was blatantly racist that I can’t believe no one demanded they change the episode premise + Kevin and Linda Tran’s characterizations. JUST KIDDING, of course I know why no one emphasized the issue - there are barely any BI+PoC in the writer’s room. This is why hiring us must become important).

Unfortunately - and unlike your opinion - Supernatural is not “unique” for us BI+PoC fans. It’s a show manned by predominantly white cast/crew that centralizes two white men and their respective narrow realities. We don’t live in a bubble. We’re everywhere. Depict us properly, with cultural/racial sensitivity, in entertainment, media, art forms, and more. Acknowledge our lack of privilege on multiple levels.

We live within a society set up for people of colour to fail. Whiteness is the default, and the privilege intrinsically linked to that ensconces an entire array of political, social, cultural and economic structures advantaging white people while disadvantaging People of Colour.

You’re a poor white person. I’m not, and the likelihood of the white poor person being given an opportunity to escape poverty is statistically MUCH, MUCH higher than the likelihood of poor POC to escape poverty.