iroh azula antagonism is sooo important to me guys i cant ever read azula redemption fics cus none of them include their insane beef. its such a lonely world out here. can u even imagine how nuts it wouldve been if she found out abt the white lotus. i need to talk ab them dude

i like to imagine the trip back to the fn after ba sing se zuko didnt talk to iroh at all while he was in the brig because he was so in shock and still reeling that iroh outright betrayed him and his family and nation for the avatar. those three years iroh spent with zuko on the ship encouraging him meant what now? "why would he banish you if he didnt care" meant what now that you helped what would undo the banishment evade me?

and azula has never been above gloating, even over the most pathetic scum. so she makes sure to head to the brig the night they depart, her exhausted brother conked out in his quarters none the wiser, mai and ty lee flanking her. and even though the mission had been to capture the avatar dead or alive, theres something about looking down at her restrained uncle whod been working the whole time to get zuko (who has an unending list of faults but is loyal above all else and had been trying his hardest to fulfill the terms of his banishment even while being a wanted criminal to their nation- something she will not overlook) to betray their nation is somehow more satisfying by tenfold than looking down at a restrained avatar.

she knows just how hard iroh takes losing. he lost ba sing se and a son years ago, and here he has lost ba sing se and a son once more. or a boy his senile, trauma-riddled mind has convinced him is his son. her uncle bet against her father by trying to turn his son against him for whatever traitorous and foolish reasons he has and frankly shes just overjoyed to have him out of the way once and for all, because azula is a dragon just as much as iroh and she will always strive to protect her blood, because irohs the one who let zuko into that war room in the first place, because what right does he have to allow her foolish brother that couldnt keep his trap shut to save his life in a situation like that and then have the audacity to try and turn him against them when zuko even being in ba sing se (instead of working under azula along with mai and ty lee like he shouldve been) was all his fault in the first place? she hopes freeing zuko of him stings unlike anything else. she hopes if that sting manifested in reality it would take the shape of an ugly stamp right across his face and haunt him for the rest of his days in his self made prison.

and then iroh can say that zuko had no choice BUT to be loyal above all else because if he wasnt thats a death sentence from ozai. and then azula can say that thats wise of her father then because if that wasnt how it was then their whole family would be an infested nest of lying cowards like iroh. mustve been something her dad learned from his dear old brother. and what can iroh even say to that

oh boy...

now Lu Ten could go two possible ways: actually recognizing that he was so, so wrong and feels genuine remorse, or he goes on with life feeling that he was completely justified in what he did.

in both, Zuko would not forgive him, I believe. how do you think these two circumstances would go down?

I actually think Zuko WOULD forgive him, in both scenarios, even though he shouldn't.

In scenario A, Lu Ten starts to recover from the PTSD of captivity, he gets some perspective, he learns more about what Ozai put Zuko through, he realizes that Zuko risked a lot to save him when he could have left him to rot without anyone ever knowing... He's horrified with himself. He feels sick.

He tries to apologize, but Zuko just... isn't mad. He's still so self-loathing, and Lu Ten is the Crown Prince, so technically he's allowed to do whatever he wants to Zuko. So Zuko's just: "You don't need to apologize, Your Highness. Thank you," and then bows deeply.

Still, Zuko avoids him. Iroh helps. The peace talks in Ba Sing Se need a representative from the royal family. Lu Ten is never going back there. Iroh sends Zuko, who's actually really good at it. Zuko spends time with his friends, helps come up with a pretty decent treaty, has a great time and does a great job.

But when Zuko comes back, nothing has improved. Lu Ten tries to compliment him, and he Freaks. Out. "I wasn't trying to overstep! I'm just trying to serve the family! I'm not like him! I'm not trying to steal your place!"

So, that didn't work. Nothing Lu Ten tries really works. He goes to his father in tears, who is sympathetic. Still, he doesn't tell Lu Ten what he wants to hear. He tells Lu Ten to give Zuko space, to give him a chance to feel safe.

Zuko goes on diplomatic trips all over the world. He helps ease (some of) the international tensions that are still a very big problem. Lu Ten stays home and is lavished with the adoration of his people, their returned prince, their second chance. He hates it.

So Lu Ten writes Zuko a letter. He says that Zuko can take all the time he needs, the rest of their lives if he wants. He says that he was wrong. He says that what he did was cruel, and that he'll never forgive himself. He says he's going to use the experience to be a better leader, to remind himself that there's NEVER a reason to treat people the way he did Zuko. He says that he loves him.

Zuko writes back. It's easier to talk through letters. Letters can't burn you. For a long time, that's their whole relationship, letters. Zuko gets more comfortable, and eventually they rebuild something of a relationship. Lu Ten knows it will never be what it could have been, and he mourns that loss everyday, but it's something.

They almost never spend time alone, just with Iroh, who adopted Zuko as his second son. When Lu Ten eventually has kids, they LOVE Uncle Zuko. Things get better, but Lu Ten never EVER forgets what he did. He refuses to allow himself that. If he forgets, it could happen again. He won't let that happen.

In scenario B, Lu Ten refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoing. I have a headcannon that in Fire Nation culture children are somewhat viewed as an extension of their parents. This is why finding the Avatar was still such a big deal even after he'd been missing a century. It was Sozin's unfinished business, which made it Azulon's responsibility, which made it Iroh's and Ozai's, ect...

Anyway. So as far as Lu Ten is concerned, Zuko IS responsible for what Ozai did. Full stop. He's your dad, so it's your problem.

Zuko internalizes this. Obviously, when Iroh + the GAang find out, they try to help Zuko realize he's innocent, but Zuko doesn't really buy that at first. Even when he does eventually accept that he's not responsible for Ozai, he still doesn't blame Lu Ten. He avoids him, sure, but he doesn't blame him.

Iroh forbids Lu Ten from mistreating Zuko, and Lu Ten obeys, because that's his father. Still, he refuses to acknowledge that he did anything wrong. He finds subtle ways of letting Zuko know Lu Ten doesn't love him or want him around.

Zuko stays as far away from the FN as possible. He tries to serve the best interests of his people and Firelord Iroh, but from a distance. Iroh is stuck between a rock and a hard place. One day, Lu Ten will be Firelord, and Zuko will never really be safe in the Fire Nation as long as that remains true.

He has to make a decision, and he knows that all possibilities lead to grief and suffering. If he disinherits Lu Ten, Zuko will be safe, but the country will probably fall apart. If he keeps Lu Ten's position as Crown Prince, Zuko will be effectually banished from the Fire Nation forever.

You once said Zuko could have sent Iroh as a messenger to the asylum Azula was in so she wouldn't be lonely or something like that. Please. Iroh genuinely believed Azula had everything she's been through coming. Which is the reason I don't really like Iroh much. Do you think he was a sexist?

While it would have been nice if the intention behind sending Iroh, or literally anybody, to check on Azula and make sure she was recuperating well, that was not what I said. I said Zuko should have found some way to keep an eye on her, both because he was now her legal guardian and because she is still a royal and used to support their father, meaning she could be used by Ozai loyalists as a threat to Zuko's reign.

And while Iroh's double standards when it came to her where pretty obvious and he could be absolutely ruthless sometimes, we need to remember that there were lines he was NOT willing to cross, and Iroh going "I don't care that an institution that was supposed to help mentally ill people is abusing their patients - some of which cannot even understand what is happening to them or what they did wrong" is just straight up out of character bullshit, even when one of said patients is Azula (who was defeated AND not attacking anyone)

"Was he sexist?" the best word to describe uncle Iroh is UNCLE. He's an old fucker, mostly loving, and pretty wise, but every now and again he'll say or do some really dumb/insensitive shit. Iroh assuming that Azula would like dolls because "all little girls like dolls" is a form of sexism, but that still doesn't mean he was like, say, Pakku, who refused to accept that women could be anything other healers. 90% of his problems with Azula weren't motivated by her not being what he expected women to be like or whatever, but because:

1 - She was too much like his younger self and like Ozai, so he projected his self-loathing and resentment towards his brother onto her

2 - She was quite literally the perfect Fire Nation soldier, and that made him see her as a symbol/object of war, not a person - not a child.

3 - She wasn't like Zuko (favoritism really is that family's curse)