#vaggies whole “i want to be your armor” thing | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

aspoonofsugar · 2 months

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do you think the song out for love says something about Camilla and veggie and to veggies character arc

Hi!

Yes, it does. I want to talk about Vaggie in other metas too, so in this analysis I will focus on her relationship with Carmilla, since this is what you are mainly asking about.

Before I start, though, I am gonna link to you this meta by @hamliet, where she talks about the main message of the song:

You're gonna fight without gloves And when that push comes to shove Yeah, you just might rise above Long as you're out for love

If you love, you might rise above. So Vaggie, a fallen angel, regrows her wings by choosing love and protection over hate and revenge. The meaning is crystal clear. Love makes you worthy of Heaven. Just like in the finale Pentious ascends thanks to his selfless sacrifice.

This is the meaning of the song when it comes to theme and to the series as a whole.

At the same time it is not by chance this theme comes out so strongly in relation to Carmilla and Vaggie, as they are both tied to "love".

FAMILIAL LOVE AND ROMANTIC LOVE

Carmilla Carmine: So I, I'll be your keeper Do whatever it takes, I'll make the mistakes I'll keep you safe and keep this secret

Vaggie: So I, I'll be your armor Do whatever it takes, I'll make the mistakes I'll spend my life being your partner

Carmilla and Vaggie are set up as foils in episode 3, when they share the song Whatever It Takes. This ballad is a love song, but Carmilla and Vaggie express two different kinds of love:

Carmilla is singing to her daughters (familial)

Vaggie is singing to Charlie (romantic)

This is a pattern throughout the show:

There are two versions of More Than Anything - the first one is about a familial bond, whereas the second explores a romantic relationship

Sir Pentious gets redeemed after expressing his feelings for Cherri (romantic) and sacrificing himself for the Hotel Crew (familial)

So, Hazbin Hotel goes out of its way to celebrate all kinds of positive bonds: platonic, romantic, familial. All of these relationships are enriching and help people grow. Vaggie and Carmilla are two characters linked to this very concept, as they are ready to fight and suffer for their loved ones:

Both: Whatever we go through I know I~ (Carmilla: I'll be your keeper) (Vaggie: I'll be your armor) Whatever it takes (Carmilla: I'll make the mistakes) (Vaggie: I'll make the mistakes) Whatever it takes

They are both warriors, but fight for love. They are out for love. However, Whatever It Takes also highlights a major difference between them.

TRUST AND SELF-EXPRESSION

Scrambled Eggs is an episode about trust. This is true especially for Carmilla and Vaggie, who have opposite secrets:

Carmilla killed an angel

Vaggie is an angel

Throughout the song the conflict between Heaven and Hell is mentioned by Carmilla and is present in subtext in Vaggie's stanza, as she looks at her old home.

Both are struggling under the pressure of these truths and are confronted by a loved one:

Zestial: Carmilla, what troubles thou? Losing thy composure is unlike thee. Carmilla Carmine: It's nothing, Zestial, really.

Charlie: Vaggie, don't say that! You do so much! It's- Vaggie: I'm sorry. I'd… I'd like to be alone for a minute.

Carmilla chooses to open up to Zestial and tells her daughters how much she loves them. Vaggie instead closes herself off and refuses Charlie's attempt to talk. She is singing to Charlie, but Charlie herself isn't present to hear her out. Even when it comes to their respective secrets...

Carmilla says hers in the song:

Carmilla Carmine: I always thought that I would keep blood off my face But when that thing attacked, I had to act To cross that line and keep them safe But if anyone knew, then all of Hell would rise to war And who's to say who'd survive the fray? I might lose the ones that I was killing for

Vaggie only alludes to hers in the lyrics:

Vaggie: When I saw your face You made me feel like a stranger in a brand new place And it felt so good to be understood But there's so much I wished that I could say

Vaggie meets Charlie and feels like a stranger in a brand new place because at the time she is in fact a stranger in a brand new place:

So, Carmilla is able to express herself, while Vaggie can't. This isn't surprising, as Vaggie is basically a child-soldier:

Adam: Do you really think I wouldn't recognize one of my top girls just cuz you're out of uniform? You were on the front lines, I wouldn't forget a bad bitch like you. It's why I named you after the best thing ever. Vaggie.

She is brought up in Adam's army and is taught that love is conditional. She is one of Adam's best fighters, but the moment she makes a "mistake", she is discarded:

Lute: Sinful filth like you has no place in heaven.

This is why she feels Charlie will love her only if she is useful and never messes up:

Vaggie: I'm supposed to make your dreams a reality. I'm supposed to protect you. I'm supposed to never fail you. (...) If I can't help you, what's the point of me?

This fear of abandonement and rejection is also at the root of Vaggie's inability to tell Charlie about her past:

Adam: I guess I'll just tell little miss butterflies and rainbows that she's been fucking someone who's killed-- thousands of her people. I'm sure your relationship will be fine.

Still, despite her communication issues, Vaggie's heart is in the right place:

Rosie: If there's anything I've learned, it's that words are cheap, but actions, they speak the truth. So, what have her actions said?

Vaggie is a person of few words. This may be why she has less songs than other characters. Still, she lets her actions speak, so she is given a ballet lesson by a very talented ballerina:

DANCING THROUGH LIFE

Carmilla has a ballet motif, as her outfit resembles that of a ballerina and her two daughters are called after protagonists of famous ballets. So, it is only natural that she teaches Vaggie a new way to fight through dancing.

Vaggie was taught to fight with hate and anger. So, her fighting style is aggressive and focused on attack:

Carmilla: You leave yourself open with every swing. You fight like someone unafraid of harm, and this is what you'll take advantage of. Angels wield no shields, little armor and fight with reckless abandon.

Carmilla tells her she should instead dedicate herself to love, protection and defense:

Fuel yourself with the fear of losin' That somebody who's your reason to live Harnеss your heart and you can't help choosin' To fight with all you can give

Vaggie shouldn't just fight. She should dance:

She shouldn't hate:

I see you're driven by your detestation Your every step is stoked with animus You need a different type of motivation Or there's no way that you can handle this

She should love:

Out for love~ Love~ Think of who you care about Protect them and be out For love~ Love~

Vaggie listens to these teachings and applies them in the finale, in two ways.

She sings her love for Charlie in More Than Anything Reprise:

Vaggie: You've already done so much So many lives you've changed So many souls you've touched And in the end, if it's only me you've saved Charlie and Vaggie: There's something that I've been dying to say More than anything, more than anything Need you to know I love you more than anything More than anything

As stated above, Vaggie doesn't sing much in season 1, but in the final episode she gets a short moment to express how she feels to Charlie. This is in contrast to Whatever It Takes, where she sends her girlfriend away before she starts singing. More Than Anything Reprise shows Vaggie's progress when it comes to self-expression.

She follows Carmilla's advices while fighting

On a practical level she covers herself up in a battle suit inspired by Carmilla's outfit, she wears a harness on her heart and ties her hair:

Vaggie: I'm not used to fighting with long hair.

On a thematic level she reveals her wings and defeats Lute, when the exorcist threathens Charlie:

Lute: So, I'll spare you the pain of seeing your demon bitch die.

And Vaggie eventually chooses not to kill the other angel:

Lute: Do it, then. Correct your mistake. Vaggie: Seriously, you're pathetic, you know that? Ready to die rather than accepting mercy? No, live. Live knowing that you only do because I let you, the failure.

Vaggie is asked to choose between her hate for Lute and her love for Charlie and she chooses the latter. This is why the scene ends with Vaggie leaving Lute and flying to help Charlie. She is given the chance to get revenge, but doesn't take it. She is given the chance to hate, but she loves:

I know you're thirstin' for vengeance, Vaggie You're out for blood But you'll only stand a chance if you're out for love

This is important in two ways:

1- The macrochosm - Vaggie refuses Lute's ideals and defies her expectations. For Lute it is normal that Vaggie is going to kill her. After all, Vaggie is discarded because she shows pity to a sinner, which makes her weak. Still, Vaggie bests Lute in a fight, so she is now strong. It is only obvious then that Vaggie has snapped out of her foolery and is ready to kill. She can correct her mistake. She did not kill the cannibal child, but she can kill Lute. This is how Lute understands the world. And yet, Vaggie doesn't finish her off. By doing so, she moves away from the mentality Lute embodies. She is strong precisely because she can show mercy. Adam is wrong. Lute is wrong. Vaggie isn't out for blood. She is out for love.

2- The microchosm - Vaggie sparing Lute isn't just the morally correct choice, but it is Vaggie's first step into healing:

Husk: (To Vaggie) This one. Judges everyone and everything because she hates herself.

Vaggie hates everyone because she deep down hates herself. She despises Heaven and Angels because she can't forgive her involvement in the exterminations. So, Vaggie hurting Lute would be Vaggie hurting her past self. As a matter of fact Lute is Vaggie's dark mirror. She is who Vaggie might become if she gives in to hate.

A person who hurts others:

And herself:

Vaggie instead has to value her life, so that she can protect others. She must save others and heal herself. Only in this way she can be by Charlie's side. She needs to let go of self-hate to embrace a healthy love. Vaggie's arc is her learning self-love through her bond with the Princess of Hell.

Obviously this journey is just at the beginning and our Angel of Love has a long way to go. How will her story contiue? We can make some hypothesis, which once again stem from Vaggie and Carmilla's foiling. This is just a theory, so take it with a grain of salt, but Vaggie may have a secondary personal antagonist in Hell:

Why is that so? It's because Scrambled Eggs sets Vaggie and Velvette up as foils.

RESPECT(LESS)

Velvette and Vaggie are opposites in their interactions with Carmilla. Both girls are younger than the Dancer Overlord and could learn a lot from her. However, Velvette refuses any kind of mentorship and shows no respect:

Velvette: Mad that I acted respectless? Well, it's cause no one could respect this! You're long past trending! Sorry, bae, but I ain't swiping right! You've lost your relevance-

Vaggie instead comes to respect Carmilla and learns from her:

At the same time, both Velvette and Vaggie confront Carmilla about her secret:

Velvette: 'Oops!' Did I strike a nerve? 'Cause when I brought out the angel's head, couldn't help but observe, that your wrinkled face was turning red! And why are you avoiding war? That's what the guns you sell are for! Thanks to my being respectless, one thing I'm starting to suspect is You know why this angel's headless! Do you have a disclosure?

Vaggie: I know what you did on extermination day. We can talk about it inside, or I can yell about it out here.

They call Carmilla out on killing an angel and keeping this knowledge to herself. Not only that, but both argue that it is necessary to fight back to stop the exterminations:

Velvette: We found it during Extermination day. If these Holy Rollers can be killed, the game has changed. We can take the fight to them. The boys and I have come up with a full assault plan!

Vaggie: Miss Carmine, I'm here on appointment from the princess to enlist your aid in the defense of hell from the angelic extermination. We know an angel fell at your hands and we need to know how.

Still, Velvette fails to get through to Carmilla because she uses war rhetoric:

Velvette: Oh, I get it. So Grandpa is too pussy to fight, so I guess there's no point, right? Oh, what's the matter, Fossil? Too senile to make a real power grab...

She speaks of violence, strength and power.

Vaggie instead convinces Carmilla to help because she mentions the necessity to fight for loved ones:

Vaggie: We didn't pick this fight, but it's here now. And they aren't going to stop with us. You didn't see the look on their leader's face. With us out of the way, it's only a matter of time before they come for the rest of you. They won't stop until all of hell is wiped out, so you can help us make a stand here together, or you can stand alone tomorrow.

She speaks of protection, love and comraderie.

In short, Vaggie succeeds where Velvette fails. Of course, this is true for Charlie's group in general when it comes to the Vees:

Vox: My dear people! We at VoxTek Enterprises have always been at the forefront of innovation. And now, with this new oncoming threat, we are shifting our focus, to your protection. We are pleased to announce VoxTek Angelic Security is coming soon! Trust us, with YOUR safety.

Katie Killjoy: Breaking news - Extermination day is cancelled! Charlie Morningstar managed to fend off the angelic attack with more than just nice words.

The Vees make big declarations of how they are gonna protect the people of Hell, but in the end it is Charlie and her friends who fight for the sinners.

When it comes to Vaggie and Velvette specifically, it is going to be interesting if their foiling is expanded. If so, then I guess Velvette is gonna help Vaggie mature a little bit more, so that when our ex exorcist faces Lute (her nemesis) again, she is gonna be ready for it.

#hazbin hotel #vaggie hazbin hotel #vaggie #carmilla carmine #velvette hazbin hotel #chaggie #charlie x vaggie #hazbin hotel meta #my meta #asksfullofsugar #anonymous #hazbin lute

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otakusheep15 · 4 months

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Hazbin Hotel theory/prediction!!

This could be totally wrong, but I’ve been thinking about who out of the main cast is going to die, and I think I have some ideas.

Obviously, Charlie isn’t going to die because she’s the main character. I don’t think Sir Pentious or Nifty are going to die because they aren’t as important.

I’ve seen a lot of people predicting either Angel or Husk, but I doubt that’ll be the case since Viv confirmed they’d have a slowburn romance throughout the series, so it’s unlikely that either of them will die (unless Viv was trolling us).

That leaves Alastor and Vaggie (out of the main cast). I doubt Alastor will die just because of how popular he is in the fandom and how vital he is to both the hotel and the series as a whole. There are so many loose ends and questions surrounding Alastor, meaning it’s important he stick around long enough for us to figure them out.

Which leaves Vaggie, who is the most likely candidate in my opinion. For one, we just had a major reveal about her character. SPOILERS: she’s a fallen angel. When a character has a big reveal like this just before a season finale, it’s not usually a good sign for them.

So, onto my prediction:

Charlie and Vaggie get into a fight. Most likely, Charlie will bring it up first, but Vaggie is quick to shut it down, resulting in a fight. Charlie wants Vaggie to communicate more, but she won’t listen, so they stop talking. By this point, the extermination is here. An angel (most likely Adam or Lute) go after Charlie because she pissed them off at the trial. Vaggie notices and sacrifices herself to save Charlie. This would also mirror her saying that she’ll be Charlie’s armor in her song a couple episodes ago. She dies in Charlie’s arms, and Charlie is pissed, mostly because she was never able to fully make up with Vaggie. So, Charlie goes full demon and slaughters some angels, they flee, and the extermination is over. Charlie feels like shit because her girlfriend died, but also because she became the one thing she never wanted to become: a violent monster. Now she feels like she’s not worthy of running the hotel (plus it’s probably in shambles by now thanks to the fighting). Her friends try to help her recover, etc. etc.

I doubt this is how it’s going to play out, but I’m proud of this theory, and I hope at least some parts of it come true. Thanks for reading, and feel free to share your own theories as well!

#hazbin hotel #charlie morningstar #vaggie #vaggie hazbin hotel #angel dust #hazbin hotel husk #sir pentious #nifty hazbin hotel #alastor hazbin hotel #theories #hazbin hotel theory #spoiler warning

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frogboy0 · 1 month

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How does Lute feel about what happened between her and Vaggie in your AU?

Lute is a commander dedicated to her cause, dedicated to Heaven, everything she knew and believed in was taught to Vaggie by HER. Vaggie was practically an EXTENSION of herself (both literally and figuratively)

I DO think that Lute cared for Vaggie, I think before Vaggie fell, they both cared for each other IMMENSELY. They literally did everything together even outside of training and stuff. BUT.....

My Lute is a very................. unemotional person. Like, she's cool to hang around with and stuff but, she's kinda like your emotionally distant dad. Her and Vaggie were close and I think Vaggie's 'betrayal' (that's how she sees it) really did hurt but since she's not one to want to or even have TIME to think about those feelings, Lute on the outside is cold and unaffected.

Okay this is long so rest is under the cut 😋

I think she tried reason with herself that this was BOUND to happen. 'Vaggie has always been too nice', 'she was never cut out for this anyway', 'She only got as far as she did by sheer dumb luck', stuff like that.

She tells herself this but on the inside, this shit hurts like a BITCH!!!!!!! Because FUCK!!!!!!!! They were each others' everything at one point!!!!! (In a familiar sense) Lute literally taught her eveything she knew!!!! She was her mentor!!!!! They LOVED EACH OTHER!!!!!!! And it fucking HURTS to know Vaggie had gone against Heaven and had broken one of their rules that Lute KNEW that she ALWAYS followed.

I imagine that sometimes, during the RARE instances that Lute finds herself with nothing to do, she thinks about Vaggie. She would wonder what made that Extermination Day any different from the THOUSANDS they've done before? What about one child made Vaggie do a complete one 180? What made Vaggie spare a Sinner?

(What would have happened if Lute pretended not to see Vaggie do it?)

But it happened and it was done. Lute HAD to de-wing Vaggie, she HAD to leave her in Hell. It was punishment. Heaven doesn't do second chances when it comes to the exorcists, it just doesn't work like that (Lute never questioned why).

And you can totally skip this part if you didn't read my fanfic (I wouldn't blame you for not LOL)

(SPOILERS BTW‼️‼️‼️)

Towards the 2nd of the fic, during the Extermination when Vaggie and Charlie reunite and Lute approaches them, Lute has on full Exorcist Angel armor obvi so the others can't see her face or how she's feeling IT'S A METAPHOR BC IM SO ARTSY FARTSY!!!!!!

Lute puts up these walls so no one, not even Vaggie, knows how she truly feels, she does this because of her position, so it makes sense for her walls to personify in her ARMOR!!

In the fanfic, the entire scene, Lute is paying NO MIND to Charlie, her attention is on Vaggie the whole time, which should be concerning as she's a literal exorcist and the princess of Hell is standing right in front of her.

It's a moment of weakness for Lute. She doesn't say anything but it was important that she saw Vaggie. She knew Vaggie would survive in Hell, not just because (at that point, what they all still believed) Angels couldn't die, but also Because, despite all the things Lute tried to convince herself about Vaggie after she was banished, she knew that Vaggie was tough, that she could handle anything.

The surprise wasn't seeing Vaggie, it was seeing Vaggie, narrow eyed (single eyed, because of her), and with her spear pointed at Lute.

Lute was now an enemy to Vaggie.

So Vaggie was an enemy to Lute.

TLDR; Lute did and STILL DOES care for Vaggie and she was SUPER upset about Vaggie sparing a Sinner and she does wish things turned out differently but has repressed her emotions so much that all she could reason within herself is that Vaggie got what was coming to her for betraying Heaven and after seeing her fight on the side of Hell, she understands that they're enemies for all of eternity

#ask #thank you for the ask!!#oouuigh i need to draw lute #shes so crazy and silly to me

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mythicaldemigoddess-of-deltarune · 3 years

Photo

Mugman Love-struck By Charlie x Vaggie’s Cosplay Cuteness

-------------------

okay for sure this time,

this will be the last post I do for a few months...

like until November or December.

I couldn’t help but get the idea in my head,

that involved Charlie and Vaggie Cosplaying as Devil & King Dice.

the credits are of course in the drawing,

also when I do end up drawing another Fan Art Of Helluva Boss,

I'm going to put Credit for both Vivienne Medrano & Brandon Rogers.

today hasn’t been perfect, while I was playing Yandere Simulator

it was doing one of it’s freezing moments.

I still love the game, but I hope there will be a option to befriend ALL the rivals and not just Osana.

and there being a plot twist about Taro Yamada,

that he was originally going to use Osana as a sacrifice for “Fun-Girl”

and if you beat any rival either by killing them or befriending them,

it could be revealed once you complete all the taking out the rivals in either way....that Taro Yamada aka “Senpai”

is really a hidden villain, and if you didn’t kill any of the rivals

and only befriend them (plus Taro’s Little Sister)

you can have Ayano form a party, to save the school

and stop Senpai.

that is my Headcanon, I believe that Taro is a hidden villain.

and if Osana or any of the other rivals became successful

in their confession towards him

(even if it does break the heart of Ayano.)

some time later, Taro would end up showing his true colors to the rival or his little sister, and then the said rival of Ayano will end up be used as a sacrifice to Fun-Girl or any other Boss Villain.

if Ayano was able to beat all the rivals by just befriending them

or killing them...

then every student (save for the rivals and Ayano)

will be used as sacrifice, and the only way to save them all

would be for Ayano to fight Senpai

and his boss that he fell in love with.

if she didn’t kill any of the rivals and only befriended them,

then she wouldn’t end up working alone to save the school

and make sure to revive all the students that were used

as sacrifices for the Succubus that Taro fell for and did the bidding of.

I hope they add that to the full game.

we can look at the different routes in the game

as Neutral, Pacifist and Genocide Routes.

it be nice if Yandere Simulator ends up on the Nintendo Switch

like on a game card, and not just the download only kind.

that and on a came disc for Xbox One.

at least Doki Doki Literature Club Plus is on Nintendo Switch.

but it might be a while before it makes it’s full release.

I wonder if it’s weird for me to think

that Ayano (Yandere Simulator),

Donna & Angie (Biohazard Resident Evil), Velvet (Hazbin Hotel),

Monika (Doki Dokie Literature Club) and

Harley Quinn (from DC Universe),

would match that song Mambo Number 5 by Lou Bega.

I’m pretty sure some might understand

why that thought pop into my head.

today wasn’t perfect, besides that whole Yandere Simulator

doing that freezing thing on me, but at least it unfreeze itself...

when I do post another drawing in a few months on here,

it will be of Professor Utonium x Professor Membrane.

and maybe a ship of Prince Blueblood x Sugarcoat

from MLPFIM x EQGs.

I can’t seem to bring myself to really hate Blueblood anymore,

well if you think about it, Rarity was in the wrong...

she only had a crush on him because he was a Prince,

and if she married him, yes it would automatically make her a Princess.

but if most theories are true and on a fan fic...

it is possible that Blueblood only acted the way he did,

because he has dealt with mares like Rarity before.

plus it is possible Blueblood has some form of phobia of getting dirty,

which is called Automisophobia.

even if Blueblood was in the wrong to use Rarity as a shield,

she was in the wrong for not being understanding

of his Automisophobia as well as the fact that despite being selfish

and a bit of a Royal Pain, he might be good deep down

and has been spoiled by his Aunt Celestia all through his childhood.

it might be obvious that the one who raised him was Celestia.

Blueblood might be both a good and bad pony,

but it doesn’t mean he is 100% in the wrong with how he acted with Rarity....the only time he acted in the wrong was when he used her as shield and possibly didn’t try to make it more clear that he had no real interest in her and wanted her to take a hike.

if someone should like you in a romantic way,

it wouldn’t just because your a Prince or Princess,

or descended from a Royal Family or Royal Families.

Rarity only liked Blueblood because he was a PRINCE.

and her trying to cozy up to him, was her greed showing

as well her wanting to move to Canterlot and live the High-Life.

though I do have a fan theory that the place where Canterlot stands

was the original home of the griffons.

just like the place where Ponyville is use to be fully the home of the monsters like the cockatrice, bugbear and chimera...

until the ponies came and took it all over from their broken frozen old home that is next to the home of the storm king.

I’m sticking to that theory...

as well as a new theory that Cozy Glow is really

Shining Armor & Princess Cadence’s daughter,

but they could of forgot because of that Memory Stone thing.

I do believe that Twilight could be Celestia’s daughter.

anyway I don’t want to make this any longer than it already is.

but yeah I do believe that the broken ice and snow

that is a bit away from Equestria,

was the Earth-Pony, Unicorn, Pegasus and the other Pony Tribes

original home before they wrecked it with too much disharmony

and then end up moving to the other land that would then be renamed Equestria.

it does make sense if you really think about it,

like with the Buffalo who’s home was taken by the ponies

who renamed the land t hey settled on “Appaloosa”

when Celestia and Luna’s original castle of the two sisters,

was in ruin and after Luna’s Basement to the Moon.

it is obvious that Celestia and her royal guard/army

marched over to the Griffons home and took it over

and made them move to a place where they over time become really miserable and became hateful to one another.

I can talk more about those theories another time.

but anyway I hope some of you like this crossover drawing,

that has Vaggie, Charlie and Mugman in it.

I will sign back on later to check out some stuff on here.

but this is 100% the last drawing I’m gonna post on here,

until in a few months...I will be posting this at Deviantart.

so see ya later and stay safe everyone.

PS:

I didn’t want to wait to post this in a few months on here,

so I had decided to post it on the night I drew it...

okay that is all I got to say for now.

#mugman #charlie x vaggie #cupsandcasinos #crossover fanart #crossover AU #hazbin hotel #love at first sight #girlfriends #cuphead fanart #hazbin hotel fanart #cuteness

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