Jon's sweet ending+ the crown of Torrhen Stark

I just found out that Rhaegar could have left Torrhen's crown to Lyanna as proof of his favor and Jon's legitimacy.

"The ancient crown of the Kings of Winter had been lost three centuries ago, yielded up to Aegon the Conqueror when Torrhen Stark knelt in submission. What Aegon had done with it no man could say."

The popular theory is that maybe Rhaegar's harp/cloak is what was in Lyanna's tomb but given the Lyanna hints about crowns and Queen Sansa's show's ending, it could be more likely. It's also more meaningful for Jon- it's a reinforcement of his Northern identity that a Targ relic would not give him.

The symbol of the North being part of the Seven Kingdoms returned to its rightful place all because a dragon married a wolf. So what if King Bran *seals* the deal and make it official by having another dragon marry a wolf. The North would have it's independence back and the Starks will continue to be Kings of Winter.

“Renly Baratheon is nothing to me. Nor Stannis neither. Why should they rule over me and mine, from some flowery seat in Highgarden or Dorne? What do they know of the Wall or the wolfswood or the barrows of the First Men? Even their gods are wrong. The Others take the Lannisters, too. I’ve had a bellyful of them.”

"Why shouldn't we rule ourselves again? It was the dragons we married, and the dragons are all dead!" He pointed at Robb with the blade. "There sits the only king I mean to bow my knee to, m'lords," he thundered. "The King in the North!"

The dragons are not dead! Even better, he knows of the Wall and barrows of the First Men.

Mormont gave a whistle, and the bird flew to him again and settled on his arm. "A lord's one thing, a king's another." He offered the raven a handful of corn from his pocket. "They will garb your brother Robb in silks, satins, and velvets of a hundred different colors, while you live and die in black ringmail. He will wed some beautiful princess and father sons on her. You'll have no wife, nor will you ever hold a child of your own blood in your arms. Robb will rule, you will serve. Men will call you a crow. Him they'll call Your Grace. Singers will praise every little thing he does, while your greatest deeds all go unsung. Tell me that none of this troubles you, Jon . . . and I'll name you a liar, and know I have the truth of it."

Jon drew himself up, taut as a bowstring. "And if it did trouble me, what might I do, bastard as I am?"

Robb never had this so maybe Jon might. Ends with a question mark, is he really a bastard? He's not.

And in time the boy would take the oath as well. He would father no sons who might someday contest with Catelyn's own grandchildren for Winterfell.

Cause the sons he will father would have the right to Winterfell.

She may not be a princess, but she would make a worthy wife for any lord.

The Princess in the Tower was given ill suited suitors by her father because she was secretly betrothed to a Targaryen. Makes you think.

I’m waking up this fine morning to do more Jon Snow posting because I’m lowkey obsessed with him, and I’m thinking about how I actually don’t want him to be the King in the North. Because I think KING OF WINTER is a much more meaningful title.

We’ve had some wonderful meta about how there’s a reversion of the Starks. The Stark kids are getting more in tune with their ancestral heritage as the story goes on. But I think Jon and Bran go even further than the rest. Both actually go way north and establish connections and relationships with groups and concepts that are historically northern. Bran will be the last greenseer and has met the CotF (a bit like the Last Hero, a northern legend). He is also the heir to Winterfell and the North; his official title is Prince of Winterfell. On the other hand, Jon is a strong warg and joins the NW, a historically northern institution; he eventually becomes it’s lord commander. He also establishes a relationship with the Wildlings (a northern ethnic group) to the extent that by ADWD, he’s the king beyond the wall in all but name. AND he’s also heir to Winterfell and the North (per the provisions of Robb’s Will).

Like ok, Jon is being positioned to have a key role in a mythical war against ice demons from the North! Again, his connections to the North and northern mythology are going crazy. Given how important this coming war is, I don’t think KiTN title does the job.

I’m thinking of the history behind the title King of Winter. So the Starks held this title for millennia but at some point decided to go by Kings in the North. I’m not too sure about when they made this change. The wiki is a little unclear. Did they always have the KiTN title as well or is that something they switched to as time went on?

My head cannon is them going by the KiTN title is actually a mistake on the Stark kings’ part. I think the first King of Winter, Bran the Builder, had a part to play in the original Long Night (maybe he was even the Last Hero). So after he built the Wall, presumably helped established the NW, and built Winterfell (the place where Winter fell!!), he installed himself as the King of Winter to assert his dominion. Then he made his house words “winter is coming” so that his descendants who would also be kings of winter would look at the house words and remember their title. It’s not just a weather forecast but a reminder, “hey kids, winter is coming so you must be prepared to defeat it as I once did!”

But then at some point, subsequent kings forgot the true meaning of the house words and their royal title. So by the time Westeros is united under Aegon I, they had switched to the much lamer Kings in the North.

But now the ice demons are back again! Can the Starks really continue to go by a title that doesn’t represent the truth of their origin? I don’t think so. They’re already going back in a sense. Robb started it after he was crowned King in the North, but I think they need to go even further back; btw Robb’s crown is the crown of the kings of winter. The remaining Starks (but more specifically Jon and Bran) have to remember that they are kings of winter. Kings who rule in the winter, kings who ruled the winter.

Given that Jon is heir to Winterfell, then he’s kinda also heir to Wintefell’s legacy. Specifically the legacy that has to do with the Long Night. It looks like a new age of heroes is upon us so Jon needs a title that actually denotes his special status. Bran too! Both of them are actually at the forefront of this fight. They’re the front line. So with their ancestor beating back winter and becoming its overlord, Bran and Jon will have to take up this new mantle and do the damn thing all over again. I don’t think it’s by mistake that both seem to have connections to the legend of the Last Hero. Bran’s are a bit stronger but we cannot discount Jon.

So we have two winter kings; one connected to spring and the other connected to summer. Both are connected to death and rebirth, and prosperity after rebirth. Both are carrying House Stark’s magical legacy in different ways that are complimentary. BTW someone needs to write something on how Jon and Bran are so deeply connected on a mythological level. Because the parallels are driving me insane!

So my point is that I hope Jon doesn’t go by the King in the North title. I much prefer King of Winter because it’s more in line with his role as a magical being; he is a magical heir. King of Winter is a magical title. Also the cool factor is just that much bigger. Imagine people saying “winter is coming” in relation to the king of winter?! And they’re saying this during an actual winter?! One that apparently decimates entire generations?!

Like Jon SNOW (!!) king of winter -> Winter is coming -> Jon Snow is a play on Jack Frost -> Jack Frost is known as Old Man Winter or the Spirit of Winter. But the difference with Jon is that he’s got that fire in him as well. He’s an entirely different beast. God I need to go sleep!! Idk what I’m saying anymore…..

TL;DR

Broke: Jon is the King in the North

Woke: Jon is the King of Winter! It’s a mythical title meant to be borne in a mythical war. Winter means death, and snow means death as well. But Jon isn’t Winter’s king because he is an agent of death. No! He is Winter’s king because is the overlord. He died, but was resurrected! He cheated death and so death has no power over him or his kingdom. Death is in subjugation to him! And because death is subjugated, then Winter must bend the knee! With Jon, it’s never about death but about rebirth!! Jon is made anew and his lands are as well! Jon is the King of Winter who brings about the spring! Praise be to our lord and savior!

spreading my kitn!jon agenda post by post baby

I dont know why antis call Northerners xenophobic after S8. They didn't like Dany bcs she wanted to conquer North and subjugate them. Fighting for freedom of your land/ppl doesn't make one xenophobic. Southerners like Davos,Lord Royce were literally the closest advisors to KITN,Lady of winterfell. Northerners had no issues with Knights of Vale, Brienne/podric/Sam Tarly coming to Winterfell. Even starklings are half southerners who worship both gods and Northeners still wanted them to rule North.

Hi there!

I think it was because of that scene in episode 2 (?, I think) where Northern children looked full of distrust at Grey Worm and Missandei. That clearly gave racist/xenophobic vibes. I think the scene was supposed to stand beside the scene that was released later, where a Northerner shows his disgust for Dany by spitting at her feet (and Jon looks like he wants to cheer him on).

In addition there was the scene in the crypts that didn't make it on screen where Sansa saves Missandei.

If you take all of these together they show the Northerners distrusting Dany and her trusted general and advisor. Together with Sansa saving Missandei it also shows that the Northerners can see beyond the allegiance to Dany in an emergency (after Missandei even told Sansa off for distrusting Dany).

If they had included all these scenes the audience might have gotten the point better - although it was still tone deaf how they (the writers) treated Missandei and Grey Worm.

It was not about xenophobia, it was about the fear of being subjugated and conquered. But the framing, the last minute cut of important scenes, certainly did not help to make the audience understand.

It was all about hiding Dark Dany and that the writers used classical framing that is usually used to call out prejudice (look, even the children shy back from the strangers) did contribute to the idea that this was 'xenophobic'. It was the framing and it was on purpose that they left this scene in and not the Northerner spitting or Sansa saving Missandei.

Season 8 had exactly one agenda. Hide DarkDany as long as possible while still giving hints. It just did not work. And it allowed for misinterpretation left and right.

Thanks for the ask! I know it took me long. Clearing my ask box at the moment!