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edenfenixblogs · 5 months

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I think that I’ve realized one of the big reasons that antisemites are so anti-Israel—I mean, aside from it being a state where a lot of Jews are.

Israel is a state that protects Jews. It also does a lot of bad things under the Likud government. And it also harms Jews that get in the way of the Likud government. But none of that matters to antisemites.

Because a state is an institution. And the left has been very clear that it’s all about criticizing institutions.

And in the absence of a governing religious body to criticize, the Israeli state is all the leftist antisemites have to criticize.

They can’t seem to fathom that the leadership of Israel is not in anyway synonymous with a religious institution. They cannot seem to fathom that the Likud government isn’t in any way representative of Jewish people as a whole—and not even of Israelis as a whole! (Once again, Israel is a parliamentary system. It’s about who has the largest proportion of votes, not a majority) and that Jews in Israel as well as non-Jews in Israel have a say in who to vote for and often strongly oppose Likud and Netanyahu.

It’s like a whole chunk of otherwise progressive people have been waiting for a way to criticize all Jews by attacking some institution they think speaks for us.

They cannot fathom that we are literally just a small ethnic group with half of our number in one location and would very much like for us and for them to not be victims of violence. That’s the uniting principle.

They’ve continually demonstrated how little they know and understand about Judaism, Jewish culture, and Jewish history.

I genuinely do not know if they’re aware that there’s no supreme Jewish council or whatever. There’s no Jewish version of the Grand Imam, Grand Ayatollah, Dalai Lama, Celestial Master, or Head/President of the Church.

We don’t even have a main synagogue from which edicts or traditions flow. We did have one. The Wall in Israel was our main institution. But colonizers and invaders destroyed it. And other religions built their institutions on top of it. And the religious governing body of Jews fell apart thousands of years ago.

…so the only thing that holds us together is each other. Rabbis don’t answer to some central authority. We hold traditions together through culture and traditions and connection to our land of origin, like many our even most other indigenous cultures.

But, because there is one (1) place on the entire planet where Jews are a majority of the population and not a minority, suddenly vicious attacks on the character of Jews everywhere are fair game as long as antisemites pretend they are talking about “Israel.” But they aren’t talking about the State of Israel. Because they get mad whenever we tell them to please specify the current government and the Likud party, because they are the ones responsible for carrying out the needless violence.

But they won’t do that. They seem to believe that there is some uniting religious force that exists in the Israeli government. And they seem to think that we are all united by this religious directive of “Zionism.”

That’s the only way any of their criticisms make sense logically. They don’t see themselves as attacking actual humans. They see themselves as attacking institutions. And any Jew who disagrees with them? Well they are just bastards supporting the institution.

But…there is no supreme Jewish institution. It doesn’t exist. It doesn’t exist because they destroyed those institutions.

They’re making themselves feel good by thinking attacking Jews is somehow helping free Palestine. But it’s just attacking Jews.

It’s like a weird continuation of supercessionism. They’re projecting their religious structure onto a religion that is fundamentally incompatible with that structure.

#antisemitism #leftist antisemitism #supercessionism #jumblr

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is-the-thing-actually-jewish · 6 months

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is jewishvoice[dot]org jewish?

Rating: Absolutely Not Jewish, Creeptastic Messianic Missionary Site.

This is blatantly messianic propaganda that a) directly targets Jews for conversion to Christianity and b) encourages Christians to have a sense of "ownership" over Jewish traditions in an appropriative, ahistorical, supercessionist, and frankly creepy way. I've put direct quotes from their website under the cut as citations so you can choose to read or not, but on the whole, our recommendation is "Do Not Interact."

~Mod Leora

A: "We want every Jewish person to know that God's plan for them includes Jesus the Messiah."

B: "Want to live more like Yeshua (Jesus)? Take ownership of the heritage you've been grafted into by learning to embrace the traditions and cultures that Jesus Himself celebrated."

#jumblr #not actually jewish #messianics #supercessionism #appropriation #avoid #rating

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nonegenderleftpain · 10 months

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There are few things I hate more than "Jewish ally" anti-theists and atheists that spout complete bullshit about Judaism and our supposed beliefs as though they know better than we do what we believe. When we talk about cultural xtianity, this is the kind of shit we're talking about.

"You might not believe in hell but most Jews do, my ex-xtian interpretation of your holy texts is correct despite thousands of years of information on the subject, here's a video telling you that you're wrong." Spent several posts calling non-religious people "freethinkers," and continuously dodged the question regarding the harm eliminating religion would do to so many cultures. Not to mention going from "I think the world is better without religion" to "you have an anti-xtian bias that I don't like" as though there's not a reason for that.

Ex-xtian atheists - you need to address and unlearn your xtian belief that your way is the only right way. That you are objectively correct and everyone else is just ignorant. That you know better than the religious minorities you are addressing. People like this want an excuse to talk down to religious minorities under the guise of polite language, and if you don't want to be associated with them, you have to put in the work to not be like this. I say this as an ex-Catholic, and a former anti-theist - do better.

If you are making objective assertions about someone else's religion that you have not studied and cannot answer basic questions about, you're not being critical of religion, you're being an atheist supremacist. If you pull a "gods are more harmful than helpful" like this person but cannot tell me the impact of Kali or Sàngó on their respective cultures, you are not being critical, you're ignorant and self-absorbed. If you have not studied religion, you do not know what you are talking about, and if you are only accepting xtian interpretations of other religions as true, even as a basis for hatred of religion, you're just a xtian with a new wallpaper.

If you are advocating for anti-theism, you are advocating for the cultural genocide of hundreds of different cultures around the world. If you are advocating for anti-theism, you are inherently anti-Jew. And if you are talking over Jews when they correct you on your blatant misunderstanding of our culture, only to call us *liars* when we counter your misconceptions, or call out your cherry-picked sources for why you know better than we do, you're not just an asshole, you're an Antisemite.

I took this conversation in good faith, hoping that the ignorance was born from misunderstanding instead of malice. I should not have been so kind. And if you're going to come onto this post and whine and cry about "not all atheists," or "cultural xtianity isn't real," save us both the time and block me. I'm done entertaining atheists that will not acknowledge that y'all don't know better than the religious minorities you are insulting by assuming we're all just blind sheep being lied to by some hierarchy that doesn't exist outside of certain religions. My partner is an atheist. I was for a long time, and I chose to return to religion on my own. I'm still an atheist, but I am also very religious. I'm the "smart Jew" that ex-xtians love to talk about; enlightened and no longer clinging to the supernatural. And I'm telling you that you're a fucking asshole and I associate more with the most spiritual Orthodox Jew than I ever would with someone who thinks atheism makes you superior.

#atheism #atheist #anti theism #anti theist #jumblr #antisemitism #supercessionism #cultural christianity #cultural xtianity #antitheism #anti-theism #religion #religion is a lie #religion is bullshit #jewish stuff

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magnetothemagnificent · 2 years

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What supercessionism has to do with antisemitism among culturally Christian anti-theists:

Supercessionism is the idea that Christianity is the progression of Judaism, an "improvement" you might say, and that Judaism is irrelevant because of this.

So what does this have to with antisemitism among anti-theists?

Well, a lot.

Atheists who were raised in a Christian society, no matter how much they try to deflect that, still absorbed Christian beliefs and ideologies. Many were once Christian themselves, or at least raised Christian in their childhood. It's impossible not to have absorbed and internalized certain Christian ideas, among them supercessionism.

See, this unique form of antisemitism spouted by culturally Christian anti-theists is result of them venting their frustration and trauma due to Christianity.

Many have been hurt by Christianity, especially those who are members of the LGBT community. And they're looking for someone, or something to blame.

And that's where supercessionism comes in.

Their logic goes as follows:

"Christianity hurt me deeply and is the cause of a lot of my problems" (probably correct, and a reasonable statement)

Then,

"Who is responsible for Christianity even existing? I think the best way to combat Christianity is by combatting whoever is responsible for it."

Finally,

"Jesus and his disciples were Jewish. Christianity is the progression of Judaism, and therefore Judaism and Jewish people are responsible for Christianity. Everything wrong with Christianity is a result of Judaism."

This is where you see people calling the "Old Testament G-d" brutal and cold, people making fun of Jews for following halakha, and insisting that homophobia exists because of Judaism.

They of course forget that Christianity as we know it today has more commonalities with Roman and Greek paganism than it does with Judaism, and that Christian ideas as we know them today are more in line with the Roman and Greek pagan ideas of their time. Even the depiction of Jesus as we know him today takes heavy influence from the likes of Apollo, Hermes, and Dionysus.

Their logic of blaming Judaism for Christianity's ills is of course more proof that they've internalized a lot of Christian beliefs that they haven't yet deconstructed. Because of course, supercessionism is a very Christian idea.

It's proof that it's not enough to say you're not Christian anymore, when you're still spouting antisemitic Christian beliefs.

There's nothing wrong with having internalized Christian ideas, it's hard not to have done so in the Christian-centric society we live in. I myself as a Jewish person have had to deconstruct Christian ideals I had inadvertently absorbed.

It becomes a problem the moment you externalize these beliefs and espouse antisemitism.

#antisemitism #Christianity #supercessionism #lgbt antisemitism

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redditantisemitism · 3 months

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Interesting little case study in how someone can be accidentally antisemitic while trying to be against antisemitism. Let’s look at how:

Their core concept (stop blaming Jews for the crucifixion) is good. Jewish decide is a common point of Christian antisemitism. More reading

Nonetheless, they still implicitly assert that Jews did in fact kill jesus, when the more likely event (assuming that he was real at all), is that the Romans were responsible.

Especially egregious is their third paragraph, which subtly implies that the “guilty” parties should have converted and been “forgiven”.

Their fifth paragraph is an example of Christian philosemitism, which is in and of itself a form of antisemitism as it fetishizes Jews and emphasizes respect towards us not because of our value as people but because of our place in Christian culture. I’ve spoken about this Elsewhere on this blog.

They wrap it up with a no true Scotsman fallacy (sorry, even Christians that are bad are still christians) and a casual and inaccurate use of the term “Nazi”.

Their tags aren’t better. Revering Jews because jesus was Jewish is more of that same philosemitism, and plenty of Jews don’t see christians as “brothers” like this person claims.

Worst of all is the “Christianity is Judaism” tag, as well as the “Christian Jew” in their bio. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: Christianity is not Judaism. They are related in that one movement splintered off from the other, but they are not the same thing. Culturally, religiously, philosophically, they are vastly different. Christianity is not a Jewish sect and hasn’t been for over 2000 years. This claim is supercessionist and disregards the destruction and hardship of Christian persecution.

Do I believe this person knows they’re being antisemitic? No. Their clear goal is the contrary, which is good. Nonetheless they’ve slipped into Christian antisemitism, likely due to what they’ve been taught. Not their fault but something to be aware of.

#antisemitism #christian antisemitism #religious antisemitism #supercessionism #long post

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bookkats · 6 months

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O Come, O Come Emmanuel, Magnificat Version

O Come and help us magnifyYour justice on our heart and mindTear down the power structures that beAnd the rich send away empty Refrain:Rejoice! Rejoice! Emmanuelshall come to thee, O Those Who Seek O Come thou mighty and findWays to scatter the powerful n proudAnd show your strength through grace and mercyAnd exalt those who are humble and meek O come, O come, Emmanuel,and ransom captives from…

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#advent #Advent hymn #Non Supercessionist #O Come O Come Emmanuel #supercessionism

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newnitz · 22 days

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I don't really see people talking about how cultural Christianity is applied to Jews.

In Christianity, Jews are the people who rejected and betrayed Jesus and are punished with statelessness and destitution, whose only redemption is accepting the Messiah and the Son of God. This is the basis of several antisemitic tropes, most prominently deception, religious supercessionism and the Wandering Jew.

In cultural Christianity, these tropes are considered tenants of Judaism rather than Christianity, as Judaism is considered Christianity without Jesus.

Christians see themselves as tortured saints, persecuted for spreading the truth of Jesus and God across the globe. Missionaries who go to non-Christian lands to try and get the people to convert by fearmongering with damnation to Hell see themselves as victims when they're rebuffed and asked to stop.

Cultural Christian non-Christians are usually atheists and adherents of folk religion revivalist movements who have suffered religious abuse, as many sects of Christianity normalize emotional abuse by instilling inherent guilt in the Original Sin and even physical abuse in "Spare the rod; spoil the child". These cultural Christians see the millennia of antisemitism and roll their eyes, to them we're just another sect of delusional religious people with a persecution complex.

To become a Christian all you need to do is accept the Father Son and Holy Spirit, to affirm your beliefs and confess your sins. To become a Jew you are either born a Jew, or you learn the Jewish culture and religion for months on end and must live half a year under the strictest restrictions of the Jewish lifestyle to show commitment. That is the difference between a universal religion and an ethnoreligion.

In a Culturally Christian world there is no room for ethnoreligions, and they do not exist. All religions are about your faith and which God(s) you believe in. So in a Cultural Christian's eyes, a country of Jews is a country that holds one faith supreme above all others and conditions rights with conversion, as that's how Christian countries have historically been.

Christianity's common ground with Jews comes from the Roman Empire appropriating the religion from the Cult of Jesus, and making it more appealing to the masses by introducing Greco-Roman and Germanic folk religion aspects into it. Xmas is Yule but with Jesus, Easter is a fertility holiday but with Jesus and so on. In the eyes of the Cultural Christian, Christianity and Judaism are two once-antagonistic sects of the same religion, no different than Catholics and Protestants.

Cultural Christianity erases and appropriates Judaism and is as inherently hateful of Jews as religious Christianity.

Now, when it comes to the elephant in the room: Islam.

Islam, like Christianity, is a universal religion. You must believe in Allah and accept the prophets, which include both Jesus and Muhammad. It is no more inherently violent than Christianity, though it's no less. In the Christian's eyes, Islam is the competitor, the enemy. The Muslims conquered Christian lands and converted them, and they've fought holy wars against one another throughout the Middle Ages.

To become a Muslim the Cultural Christian doesn't need to unlearn any of the core tenets of their culture. They can simply apply it to Islam.

Which is why many Cultural Christians, damaged by Christianity, are sympathetic to Islam. And since Muslims and Jews are no longer on good terms, they use this sympathy to give themselves a free pass to be antisemitic. Whether Muslims check their converts for bigotry, allow it or are powerless to stop them, that's another issue.

Jews are not diet Christians. We have less in common with you than you have with Muslims. Unlearn Christian cultural appropriation.

And no, I don't care that it's "offensive" to associate you with Christianity due to the religious abuse you endured. You still see the world through a Christian lens.

#cultural christianity #christian supremacy #Christian imperialism #religious supercessionism #wandering jew #wandering Jew trope #christian antisemitism #antisemitism #leftist antisemitism

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eesirachs · 7 months

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as a student of theology do you only study christian texts or do you learn about others? I only see christian discussions on this blog

almost none of my posts are christian. i study the hebrew bible and other ancient near eastern works

#ask #the bible is not inherently christian and we owe it more care than that kind of supercessionism

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strangesmallbard · 2 months

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i know it's been thousands of years but whenever i see christians discuss any "old testament" guys i'm still like. Hey!

#academic interest in christianity vs. supercessionism anger all day every day in my brain #yell.txt

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ofpd · 11 months

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the thing abt the best theschmear post ever ("not everything is about the jews get over yourself") is that i really do need that reminder all the time. it's making fun of hey alma et al ofc but also it's just generally so true like it's so hard to remember sometimes how really most things in the world aren't about us

#the problem of course is that a very disproportionate amount of things are indeed about us. but still many things are not #txt #reading les mis i would always try to think so hard abt every time the jews were mentioned and like. my ultimate conclusion was that it #simply was not actually saying anything interesting. like vicky just didn't think about us much #i mean i do still think that the thenardiers' characterizations were likely influenced by antisemitic tropes but i really don't think he #did that on purpose yknow #also there was a moment when i was thinking about the whole central theme as being abt supercessionism but like.#to the extent that it is like. again i really don't think he was thinking about us at all #i did enjoy when r was like 'i wasn't meant to be a parisian' though. that was fun

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blunderpuff · 4 months

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contagious brain damage courtesy of instagram comments under a hanukkah post on instagram:

#christian supercessionism #muslim supercessionism #hey guys why don't you have a crusade about this or something #bite each other's dicks off

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oldshrewsburyian · 2 years

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Me, sobbing, trying to conduct a one-woman séance at Dryburgh Abbey: Sir Walter, I love you, I just want to talk about some things.

#yes this is about #ivanhoe #why does bois-guilbert become a templar?#yes he says that he aspires to become grand master of the order but surely this is a post-facto ambition #what he really seems to be going for is territorial lordship/political power #but... belonging to an order will make that harder rather than easier #and this man is efficient! ruthlessly so!#why does he call himself one of europe's rejected sons?#why does he opt out of inheritance and land management and family relationships and marriage?#anyway #the thing is #what i'm seeing here is supercessionism rewound #he betrays his vows as a knight of the temple for love of a woman who has inherited the faith of that temple #completely incapable of having a normal amount of feelings #this applies to bois-guilbert sir walter and myself obviously

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johannepetereric · 1 year

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OMG my music teacher believes Islam is inspired by/derivative of Judaism/ Christianity 🙄🙄🙄

even if that WAS the truth, just because they have a prophet-like figure and is monotheistic and has rules DOES NOT mean that they are similar, or that Islam is derivative. It is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FUCKING THING like STFU 😒

#Add in the comments how else to identify islamophobia #do not believe in supercessionism

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magnetothemagnificent · 1 year

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is Judaism focused on the Old Testament of the Bible? what is the difference between that one and the ones Christian’s use? /gen

Judaism utilyzes the texts of the Torah, Tanakh, Talmud, and many other discussional and legal texts, although our core texts are the five books of Moses, the Torah.

The "Old Testament" is what Christians call their misappropriation and mistranslation of the Tanakh, which includes the five books of Moses, the Prophets, and additional texts.

The Tanakh is actually an acronym for Torah, Neviim, and Ketuvim (TaNaKh), and it includes all the texts which the Rabbis considered important enough to canonize between 332 BCE and 70 CE. There are additional texts in Apocrypha which were written at the same time as the texts in the Tanakh, but weren't canonized for one reason or another. The Book of Maccabees is an example of Apocrypha which is still important in Judaism.

The Tanakh was written in Hebrew. The Christian "Old Testament" is based on Greek translations into Latin.

The "Old Testament" includes apocryphal texts which were not included in the Tanakh, and in some traditions, the texts are ordered differently than the Tanakh. The "Old Testament" text also includes language which alludes to the "New Testament" and Jesus. Just the terms "Old Testament" and "New Testament" allude to supercessionism, the idea that Judaism and Jewish texts only exist to usher in and submit to Christianity.

The Tanakh predates Christianity. The Tanakh was almost completely officially canonized before Jesus was even born.

#jumblr #judaism #christianity #tanakh #the bible #supercessionism

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unbidden-yidden · 11 months

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In general, I think it's currently really important for progressive Christians to be very loud about being both progressive and deeply religious Christians, and for everyone else fighting for progressive values to be supportive of them doing just that. I know that's like, idk, counter-intuitive or cringe or whatever, but seriously folks, the alternative is that progressive Christians have to be quiet about their faith to be accepted within broader secular and interfaith progressive advocacy, which means that the regressive asshole Christians (a) sound that much louder and (b) dominate the USian religious landscape all the more. That's a problem, for all of us.

We need people pushing back within the faith as well as outside of it, because that destroys any edifice that this is about Christianity and religious freedom.

You can be a devout Christian and also:

Openly, proudly, and without being forced to remain celibate or otherwise limit your full expression of self, identify as LGBTQ+ or be a supportive ally.

Advocate for full reproductive autonomy and comprehensive sex education.

Love and support people of other religious groups, non-religious people and/or atheists, by choosing to believe that a truly loving God would not pursue anything less than universal salvation.

Stand against evangelism and proselytizing as they have thus far been interpreted and used, because there are ways to interpret the Great Commission that don't promote colonialism and cultural genocide.

A steward of the earth, protecting God's beautiful creation and lovingly tending to it as the unique and incredible gift that it is.

A believer in science, rationalism, and human progress as part of God's divine plan for humanity.

A believer in history and someone who understands that the Bible can be both divinely given and open to interpretation (no really)(if you're confused, please talk to a knowledgeable traditional Jew)

An ally to Jews, who stands against supercessionism and antisemitism in the church.

And in before regressive Christians come shouting at me that (1) what do I know, I'm a Jew and (2) no lol you can't because of ___ reason:

My source is that I've personally met and talked to Christians of great faith and integrity - people who embody the closest forms of kindness I've seen to what Jesus himself advocated - who are each of these things.

It is 100% possible; you just choose to believe otherwise.

#every hour is theology hour around here apparently

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redditantisemitism · 4 months

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Let’s look at this a little closer.

First there’s the idea that Jews don’t “let” people read our books, or are hiding something from the world at large. This is entirely untrue. Sefaria is a great place to start if you want to read some Jewish texts. It’s free and online, no hiding. This idea plays into lots of conspiracy theories, and has “secret cabal” flavor.

Then there’s the mention of Isaiah 53, which notoriously refers to a “suffering servant”. The Jewish interpretation of this is that this “servant” represents the Jewish people (again sefaria is right there if you want to explore commentary on the verses), while Christian interpretation makes it refer to Jesus, in yet another act of supercessionism and putting Jesus where he simply isn’t.

The idea that a. Jews don’t teach this verse, and b. That we are knowingly hiding the presence of Jesus in our texts is doubly false, not to mention cartoonishly silly.

This idea that Jews intentionally undermine Christianity, and (in their view) by extension goodness, is once again more antisemitic conspiracy theory, placing Jews in league with the devil. It’s an old concept- “the Jews know the truth, they just willfully suppress it!”