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svsss-fanon-exposed · 4 months

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Examining SVSSS Canon: 1/∞

SHEN YUAN'S PIDW-READING TIMELINE

One question and argument that comes up frequently in SVSSS fandom is, how long did Shen Yuan read PIDW for? Was he following it from early serialization, or did he simply binge everything toward the end?

This question isn't exactly one that is easy to answer either-- considering that there are actually various direct quotes that could be read in contradiction to one another regarding it.

Based on the information in the novel, we are left with several potential theories as to Shen Yuan's reading timeline. In this post, I will be presenting these theories, along with supporting evidence from the novel.

Theory #1: Shen Yuan picked up PIDW and binge-read it from beginning to end for the first time in 20 days before dying

This theory is directly supported with a quote:

He’d spent twenty days binging the novel from start to finish, so he had clean forgotten that whump-filled arc of pointless abuse that covered Luo Binghe’s beginnings at the sect, okay?! (7 Seas, Ch. 1)

In the original text, this line is 他可是看了二十天才看完的. Broken down, this is literally "he indeed read it (他可是看了), it took him twenty days (二十天才）to read the whole [novel] (看完的)."

*note 可是 may also be equivalent to "however" or "but" in some circumstances, but is generally used to provide emphasis.

However, depending on where one puts the emphasis and pairs syllables in the last part, there could be different interpretations. If read as 看完的 it implies "read the entire thing," but if read as 看完的，it implies "finished reading." I read it the first way, but I don't know if that is the "most correct," so there is some ambiguity there.

It is also implied later that PIDW was already very long and full of plot holes when he began reading it:

So, if back when he’d just opened this baffling book, this Proud Immortal Demon Way, which was so full of landmines that it was practically high art, to the point that those landmines had become its very style... He would definitely have grabbed the brick that was the entire fifty-volume set and showed them what their brains looked like when splattered across the ground. (7 Seas, Ch. 21)

Though this could be related to the final length of the novel, and the "fifty-volume set" is likely exaggeration or metaphor. In one of his forum posts, he also says:

I understand what OP is feeling. I’ve been reading this novel lately, and it’s so damn long—long and pumped full of filler... ...All my fellow readers have already roasted the setting for the last three hundred thousand words, so I won’t say more on that. (7 Seas, Ch. 26)

This part where he says he has been reading the novel lately, implies that he began not too long ago, rather than following it for years. Of course, Airplane already at this point finds his username and comments familiar:

His eyes automatically highlighted that familiar ID “Peerless Cucumber.” (7 Seas, Ch. 26)

So it could also be said that he is downplaying his dedication with that statement. He does, however, state that the other readers have roasted the setting, but doesn't mention that he himself has done so. Additionally, the "three-hundred thousand words" mentioned may refer to the comment section, not the novel itself, so there is still some ambiguity to that point.

Theory #2: Shen Yuan has been reading PIDW long-term throughout serialization

There are multiple quotes directly supporting this theory:

He could guarantee it on all the youth and frustrations he’d wasted following this twenty-million-word-plus serialization for years. (7 Seas, Ch. 6)

and

Everything that had happened before was as unto smoke. From today forth, as he walked the jianghu, he would use this ID, which had been plastered all over the comments section for years. (7 Seas, Ch. 9)

The second quote may refer to comments sections on Zhongdian literature in general, but the first one is more directly referring to PIDW. There is a slim but unlikely possibility that he referrs to the years he has spent within the PIDW universe, rather than just reading the novel. That possibility is made even less likely by the following quote:

Next, let a veteran reader of this novel, Shen Yuan, omit the countless fanservice-y details and concisely summarize the million-word epic for everyone… (7 Seas, Ch. 1)

Where it refers to him as a veteran reader of PIDW specifically (and this TL is consistent with the original implications). It's unlikely for him to be referred to as a veteran reader if he had only been reading the novel for twenty days.

As one can see, if you go by either of the above theories, there are direct conflicts and contradictions, and arguments to be made either way. This could be written off as inconsistency. However, there are two additional options and theories which can resolve those conflicts.

Theory #3: Shen Yuan had been a casual reader of PIDW for years, but rushed to finish reading it through to the end in 20 days

One possibility is that Shen Yuan had been reading PIDW casually over several years, but wasn't caught up by the time his death drew near. Shen Yuan's cause of death is a matter for another post, so I won't discuss it here, but the following quote lends some support to this reading:

“Dumbfuck author, dumbfuck novel!” With his dying breath, Shen Yuan spat this final curse. Who could have imagined that an upstanding young man like him—who had properly purchased the website’s VIP currency and read the novel’s official version—would find himself persevering before his untimely death to finish a novel so stallion, so money-grubbing and overly padded, that it left him speechless with rage? How could he not curse? (7 Seas, Ch. 1)

Here, it seems that Shen Yuan may have been aware of his upcoming death, and so he may have wanted to hurry and finish reading the novel before he died. In the original text, the phrase is: 临终之前坚持看完的, which can be broken down as "before his untimely/sudden death (临终之前), he persisted to finish reading [the novel] (坚持看完的）, though this may also be read as "he persisted in reading the entire novel," depending on how one puts emphasis in the sentence (same issue as the first quote in theory 1). 临终 means literally "near the end," but is a term for death or one's deathbed. Another way to translate 临终之前 would be "before meeting his end."

So, because he was persisting/persevering in finishing the novel (either the whole thing or just to the end), it may be that he expected his incoming death, or that he simply wished to persist in reading the novel to its end and his death still occured unexpectedly.

坚持 implies some level of urgency or steadfastness, but it may not refer to reading the novel quickly, but simply dedication to slogging through all of the bad porn and reading it to the end, rendering this theory a bit shaky.

Theory #4: Shen Yuan had been reading PIDW since early serialization, but re-read the entire thing in the 20 days before his death

This theory would resolve all potential conflicts-- making it true that he both followed PIDW's serialization for years and read the whole novel in 20 days. As to why he re-read the full novel, perhaps it was because the final chapter had been posted or was coming up, and he wished to reread from the start in preparation for that-- this could also drive him into an even greater rage about the contents of the novel and how repetitive and filler-heavy it is, as this would become more and more obvious on a binge-reread from start to end.

One weakness in this theory, though (pointed out by @verycharismaticdragon) is that if he read it twice, it would be less likely for him to completely forget details as mentioned in the first quote. Not entirely impossible-- one can still forget details even after multiple read-throughs, but just less likely to completely forget.

Theory #5: When Shen Yuan began reading PIDW, he binged all available chapters in twenty days, before following it consistently afterwards.

(theory courtesy of @verycharismaticdragon)

While this would not be particularly likely if the quote from theory 1 and the quote from theory 3 were linked together, those two quotes don't necessarily have to be linked-- it's possible that Shen Yuan would have binged the entire novel as it was at the time he found it in twenty days, then decided to continue reading as it updated, persisting and persevering because he wanted to reach the end despite the novel's trashiness, and then ended up dying.

Particularly, this makes a lot of sense in the context of the following quote:

Even though this famous Lord Cucumber spewed criticism constantly and without end in “Great Master” Airplane’s comments sections, his subscription payments and demands for updates never waned. (7 Seas, Ch. 26)

If Shen Yuan hadn't been caught up with the novel (as theory 3 would state) then it wouldn't make quite so much sense for him to be demanding updates, and if he hadn't been reading it for even a full month, there was no reason for him to make consistent subscription payments.

*******

Ultimately, which theory you choose to believe depends somewhat on the way you view canon-- whether the seemingly contradicting statements were intentional, or whether they were merely a consistency error.

These are the only theories that I can think of, but feel free to add any additional theories + support quotes and analysis if you have them!

One final note, in regards to WHEN DID SHEN YUAN START READING?

If it's true that Shen Yuan began reading PIDW earlier in serialization, how early was that point? Was he reading it from the beginning, or did he start later?

I personally believe it was later. Though he says he was following the novel for years, that could mean anywhere from two to four years since the total serialization of PIDW took place over four years:

How could someone who’d cursed “dumbfuck author, dumbfuck novel” remember ancient content from the beginning of a serialized novel that had been running for four years and covered an in-narrative span of two hundred years? (7 Seas, Ch. 1)

While it's hard to place exactly when he started reading, it seems that Shen Yuan began to read PIDW before the Immortal Alliance Conference arc, as he discusses the novel's online performance before that point:

Before this event, Proud Immortal Demon Way’s performance online had been steadfastly lukewarm. But once the Immortal Alliance Conference Arc debuted, the reviews, comments, subscriptions, and tips all soared into the heavens. It wasn’t only because from that point forward, “Great Master” Airplane Shooting Towards the Sky abandoned the last of his already minimal moral principles... there was another important “it” factor. It was, in fact, the main element that had first compelled Shen Qingqiu to follow the novel until the end. The demonic beasts! (7 Seas, Ch. 4)

It also seems that he wasn't entirely dedicated to reading the novel before then. However, he may have caught up with the serialization a bit later-- for example, if he started reading just before the conference, he would have known that it was a little-known novel before, and been able to watch the rise in popularity in real time even if he himself hadn't caught up to the conference just yet, before only deciding to dedicate to reading the full novel once he caught up to that part.

There are many possibilities and uncertainties in regards to Shen Yuan's reading timeline, but I do think there is enough information here to form decently solid theories-- so I will leave it to my readers to decide, now that the information has been presented, which ones they think are most likely and which they wish to use in their analysis.

#canon examined #svsss #shen yuan #pidw #super interested to see the debate on this post #i know i didn't include every single quote #but i did try to get the most relevant ones #i can't definitively say my chosen theory is the be all end all correct one since it depends so much on reader opinion re: consistency #but hopefully people can decide for themselves what fits best #anyway-- new post type debut!#updated

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intotheelliwoods · 3 months

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-> -> Guess whos AU is turning a year old on February 17th!

The time when the update will be posted is not specified since it will all be dependent on my work schedule, however I will try and let you all know when it is being posted in advance if I end up posting it very late in the day!

(I am in MST)

#2 arms left #hey uh.#sunday #sunday is going to kill people.#sunday is actually #a really really long update #that I have been really excited to draw for a long long while #do look forward to sunday <3 #friday: haha silly!#saturday: ah... bittersweet silly!#sunday: oh. oh god oh shit. who put these tears in my eyes..... who gave a leo permission to cuss for an update.....#I am not finished with sundays update though #I am about halfway done #and it is... already 39 panels...............#I might end up having to extend the event to monday tbh #so its not a 4 part update in the end #but we will see???#fridays and saturdays updates are done and set in stone though #also dont be surprised if I self rb sundays update throughout the week #chances are im posting it late sunday night #which well late sunday night = the WORST posting hours I swear-

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gncrezan · 7 months

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rereading @ataleofcrowns and remembering why i had no other choice but to love him!!!!!!!!!

#rereading for the new updates too... finally getting around to it (kills uni with lasers)#anyways. i still cannot paint that well but for R i'd be very willing to try!!!!!!#also the like billionth time ive drawn them playing w their hair.....#my art #rezan #a tale of crowns #atoc #kiiiinda a redraw of the official art but it didnt start out that way!! it just ended up being a portrait and i borrowed the bg #since i already had it up as a ref .... yeas. whatever. currently on ch4 but when i get all caught up u might see me like #become so much worse so fast #edit: cant help but mess around w stuff after posting so. slight lighting adjustments

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rystiel · 9 days

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he wanted to grow old with jack 😐😐😐😐 even if jack couldn’t grow old with him 😐😐😐😐😐😐

#you’ll see me die of old age SHUT UPPPPPPP #bro doomed himself with this line btw #torchwood #ianto jones #captain jack harkness #janto #i hate stupid gayass shows why do they do this shit to me #then he says they better make the most of it ?!!!!??!!#he’s not even saying like Oh You’ll Still Be Alive By The Time I’m Old And Dying #he’s literally saying I Want To Make The Most Of My Time With You Until I Die Of Old Age #SHUT UPPPPPPPPPPP #i haven’t even finished s3 i’m still in the middle of this episode i just. had to post about it #update: finished season 3 #i am going to end everything. goodbye #❤️#ianto you did not deserve that

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stick-by-me · 4 months

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Worm love <3

#Can I. Interest you in some gay worms?#stickers #sticker collection #animals #Pride #Bugs #Worms #individuals #This is from the Entomological Society on campus #They were handing these out at the pride callout. Obviously i took some. How could I not #Miscellaneous #You cannot categorize gay worms #I've been using this as like a benchmark for the end of my new follower sticker queue #It'll be so weird to see it posted. Out in the wild....#It's been in my queue for like 2 months lol #Update. 3 months #Update. 4 months #Dairy log 27. The new followers come in floods. There's no end in sight....#Diary log 28. I learned i made a typo in the previous log. Please disregard that

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wildstar25 · 1 month

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MiqoMarch Day 28 - Adventure

O, what great adventure awaits beyond that horizon?

#miqomarch #miqomarch 2024 #ffxiv #miqo'te #ffxiv gpose #WOL posting #Arsay Nun #arsay's dawntrail fit UvU #its still slightly a work in progress #I want to add the wayfarers necklace to it so arsay can have a tripled necklace look #but it would involve setting up a texture file from scratch to get everything in there #so im waiting until 7.0 to launch to see if the pagos and uraeus stuff gets a texture update right away #kinda hoping the base shirt gets an update on launch so the metal details match the shorts #but its not the end of the world if it doesnt #Arsay is very excited to see tural!!#definitely sad that g'raha isnt coming with and she was a bit of a baby about that at first #but they chatted and everything is fine #just praying shtola and graha show up together since they'd be leaving from the same place :)#idk what will happen character arc wise but i think arsay is focusing more taking in every bit of the journey she can #even the not so fun stuff!!#of course she will still gladly be the hero if people need her to be but im hoping she plays more of a support role to some extent

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front-facing-pokemon · 2 months

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#jangmo-o #i shiny hunted this motherfucker in sv for a while. during that one event where they had a heightened shiny chance #and despite finding like two shiny duraludon like immediately‚ it took me multiple days to find a shiny jangmo-o. even with a sandwich #a level 3 sparkling power sandwich dragon. ridonkulous…#just goes to show that i love this motherfucker. and also their shiny color scheme. pink and yellow is an underrated color combo #UPDATE: hi it's me from the future. happy daylight saving time #if you were waiting for this post at 1:20 PM eastern and you didn't see it‚ i apologize! apparently‚ tumblr's queue system changes #with daylight saving time‚ which means now posts every day will be at 2:20 PM and 5:40 PM eastern instead of 1:20 PM and 4:40 PM #until. daylight saving time ends. i would HOPE the queue would've kept the times consistent‚ but it didn't. so you may have to update #your expectations for when these guys get posted‚ if you had any. apologies for the‚ ah‚ minor inconvenience!

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5-pp-man · 17 days

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no you don't get it. i literally love stories where they dive into people's hearts/minds (literally or figuratively) sm it's my favourite type of storytelling.

#p5s #fairy ranmaru #shiguang daili ren #limbo the king #king in limbo #pet anime #pet manga #pet 2020 #dmmd #homunculus #homunculus manga #sankaku mado no sotogawa wa yoru #the night beyond the tricornered window #sarazanmai #id invaded #paprika 2006 #wonder egg priority #tedpost #it allows them to portray emotions in such visually interesting ways #and is a great way to make parallels between the person who's mind they're in and the main characters #these were all the ones i could think of rn but i bet theres more that i havent seen yet #also i only mentioned scramble here because i think it does this concept better than regular p5 lmao.#FEEL FREE TO SUGGEST ME MORE OF THESE #doesnt matter what medium or genre!! could be a book a movie idc i eat stuff like this upppp #EDIT; updates the post after reading ltk and checking if tricorner fit this desc #EDIT; added homunculus too because whilst technically he never actually enters anyones minds he does visualise them into the real world #so its the same end result of seeing a person's true thoughts and feelings. but a slightly different method to get there

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the-kr8tor · 2 days

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It is done

#who's the baddes bitch that wrote 6k in one sitting? THIS MF BITCH THAT'S WHO!#now time to edit and proofread this bad boy #*sees my editing notes that i wrote while writing the entire thing so i can just go back at it* *its a page long* OH GOD #i love it so much!!!!!!!#also pls read the author's note at the end of the fic 😉#good luck to everyone reading it the second it drops ❤️#end of an era #drafting this post will be a pain in the ass literally the worst part of uploading a fic #but it'll be worth it #hope you all like it!!!#katy mumbles #katy updates #bdas #update on Saturday???? if i finish early but most likely sunday

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deiaiko · 4 months

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#18.1 Rak

Rak let out a huff and sat down next to Agni. Agni peeked over at Rak, who was looking far ahead, as if his past were replaying right before him.

TW: Self harm and suicide…in a way? (Sorry if it gets too dark. I put the TLDR on the tags)

Masterlist

☕ Buy me coffee ☕

"I met him back when I was young, about a hundred years ago," Rak started.

Agni was taken aback at how long the gap between their time travel was. He wondered how much his Rak had changed.

"It was getting cold, which meant it was hunting season. I got bored and picked a fight with the toughest and biggest prey I could find."

Agni hummed when Rak paused for a moment too long, "Let me guess. You underestimated it and you lost?"

"The river was slippery!" Rak crossed his arms defensively. "And I didn't lose!"

"Sure," Agni rolled his eyes, one corner of his lips upturned. "How come?"

"I didn't lose, but I didn’t win either." Rak looked away, probably in embarrassment. "Another spear pierced its head before mine. That's when I met him."

From the way Rak's expression turned fiery, Agni had a suspicion that that exact moment had affected Rak more than what he spilled out. It didn't surprise him however, since he knew Rak’s ego.

"He was around for a while, acting like he cared about me." Rak huffed again, more fondly this time, eyes closed and arms still crossed. "He taught me a few fancy tricks with rocks and how to hunt better. He talked a lot about turtle this and turtle that. There were so many, I don't remember. But Black and Blue turtles were the ones he talked about the most, saying something like 'no one else will be more worthy prey than them.'"

Agni felt his chest tighten. To think that their Rak had acknowledged them and even bragged about it…it filled him with a sense of pride and longing.

"I didn't believe him then, since turtles are boring and no way they could do what he said they could." Rak paused and untangled his arms, eyes focusing and turning predatory, "But when he said that these turtles were unlike what we had there, I have been wanting to meet those turtles he told me about and hunt them."

Rak's story was intriguing. But even if it flattered him, Agni was more curious about his Rak's whereabouts. "What happened to him then? Wasn't he…badly injured?"

Rak frowned and went silent. But when he found his voice, it lacked its previous vigor. "He was. It looked fresh and so impossible to walk with, but he did. I asked if it was painful, but he said he didn’t feel a thing."

Third-degree burn. Agni thought to himself. But there was no way it spread evenly. Some areas must've been painful.

"He definitely lied," Rak voiced Agni's thought. "He was just acting to look tough."

The edge of Agni's lips twitched in an attempt to suppress his smile. That's him alright. And of course Rak could figure his own self easily.

"One day he challenged me in an all out duel," Rak's gaze turned dark. "His wounds had weakened him over the months, and it was obvious who would be the winner."

Agni frowned at the implication.

Wordlessly, Rak called out his arms inventory which held a familiar looking spear that shouldn't have been in his possession at this point in time. Agni would recognize that design anywhere, "...Mad shocker."

"He said he wanted to test me, and he gave me this." Rak glared at the spear as if it was responsible for his misfortune. "And later told me that I should be proud, for only a true hunter was allowed to defeat him."

Agni felt his throat going dry, and gulped. "He died, didn't he?"

Rak's eyes sharpened. Whether it was in regret or anger, Agni couldn't tell. "I killed him."

Agni didn't know what to feel about that. On one hand, he could empathize with how much pain Rak must've felt from the injury, especially with the lack of proper treatment that could cure or even just lessen the pain. But on the other hand, it meant that his Rak was truly gone, in such a way, and he still couldn't wrap his head around it.

Rak put his pipe back to invisible mode, like looking at it had brought him so much grief. "I've never used that spear since."

The silence stretched, with only the loud noises coming from the training ground to fill it. Agni wasn't sure how to reply to that without being overly friendly nor physical, and he definitely wouldn't do that to Rak, who only met him today.

Sitting beside Rak like this reminded him of their chat before the workshop battle, on the balcony. It was when Rak truly let him see his buried feelings, his desire to climb the tower together with him and Grace. And with that, the grief finally started to dawn on him. The scar on his face felt itchy and his hand was already clawing at his mask before he registered the motion. He sighed and put his hand back on his knee, pushing the tangled feeling to the back of his mind to be dealt with later. And since the silence had stretched out for too long, he asked; "What was he to you?"

"A rival," Rak looked thoughtful before adding, "and family."

Masterlist

Let me know your thoughts in the reblogs <3

☕ Buy me coffee ☕

#TLDR: current Rak was good friends with Agni's Rak #They met about a century before current Rak entered the tower #Future Rak is dead #--end of TLDR--#I do love Rak. but this is the price he must pay for being one of my favorites #ok but did you know that spear inventory is called pipe? i was surprised too #to everyone who was excited last week for future rak comeback...I'm not sorry #it was very entertaining to see your comments (and imagining the despair) hahaha. I thank you for that #anyway. life been very hectic right now. i consider taking a break after valentine update to stock up some chapters #i barely have time to write now. let alone drawing #I'd rather keep my weekly updates than posting once a month. Lest you forget the story and had to reread previous chapter(s) eachtime #tower of god #tog #two sides of the same coin fic #my fic #my art #khun #koon #khun a.a #khun aguero agnis #rak wraithraiser #rak

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fisheito · 1 month

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Bottom yakumo fics i rotate thru bc the tag is playing games with me

EIDEN:

(locked) https://archiveofourown.org/works/48090496

(Sequel) https://archiveofourown.org/works/49270402

(locked) https://archiveofourown.org/works/37453975

KUYA (some dubcon+yaku whump):

ASTER:

QUINCY:

https://archiveofourown.org/works/54831790

NOT EXPLICITLY BOTTOM, BUT FITS THE SUBBY ~FEELING~

https://archiveofourown.org/works/37413112

(locked) https://archiveofourown.org/works/49106176

https://archiveofourown.org/works/50601046/chapters/128881948#workskin

#is it ok to link locked fic like this? do they not wanna be perceived? if it's not ok i'll just uhh... disappear them from the list #eehehehehe sometimes i just get into moods where bottom yakumo is where it's at #like. specifically bottom yakumo. EXCEPTIONALLY subby yakumo.#no twisting the game to overpowering his partner at the end. that's the bott-to-top yakumo pipeline that fits a DIFFERENT specific mood! :}#eventually i'll exit the bottom mood and dive into topyaku fic and we continue the cycle anew #because... ultimately..... switch yaku is my everything (my agenda and preferences are visible from outer space)#anyway yeah this stuff is all on the hornier side. there are bottom yaku fics that i like that are more plot and char-heavy #but this is the list for when i wanna see him whimpering and begging and crying etc etc you know the post i'm talking about #i started compiling this list because i tried filtering for bottom yakumo and got like. 8 fics #i whispered... i've been living off 8 fics ? Only? i mean that's a lot given how small the fandom is but i feel like i'm missing some #anyway there ended up being more than 8 (that i would reread) so i was quite content with my findings #maybe i'll update it if i see more. hmm. i hope i'll see more #bottom yakumo reading list #i am reading words and acting in ways

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beesorcery · 1 month

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hello it's part 3 of 3 for my cool fun graphic design adventure!! part 1 and part 2 got too long. to recap i am recreating this t-shirt design but with the magic 8 ball songs instead of city names:

here is the current draft, updated through 3/27 (pittsburgh) (!!!!)

#aaaa!!!#tried doing image descriptions for this one #feel free to send me better ones though and i can update the alt text!! or just put them in the replies/reblogs lol #bees' graphic design adventure #only 7 more shows........ wowie #OH ALSO ppl have been expressing interest in getting this as an actual shirt which is!! cool!!#idk how to do that though!!#if anyone has recommendations for websites or something to do that please please send them or reply to this post or something #at the very least i'll make the file available at the end so ppl can print it on whatever they want #i was gonna make a poster #but yeah let me know if there's a good way to do that!!! it's really cool that people are enjoying this i am having a lot of fun doing it #fob #fall out boy #2ourdust #gonna update after nashville des moines and minneapolis so 3 left!!!#i have already changed it since posting this because i am a freak <3 and i cant leave good enough alone lol #also i now have all the fonts <3 for the cities anyway #not the states but i’ve only used the states a few times so far for like the parentheses or punctuation or whatever #so if i end up needing those ill go find them whatever #anywayyyy yeehaw see u all in like 4 days

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mikesbasementbeets · 1 year

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to be real for a second, i think there is a moment in the show where mike has a ~realization~ of sorts about his feelings but hasn't quite put two and two together yet.... and it's this:

this realization of "hey my feelings for will are actually maybe different than my feelings for my other friends, but i'm not sure why" happens at the end of season two. and then mike spends the entirety of season three acting sort of strange and different around will while having his relationship with him constantly juxtaposed with his relationship with el. reaching the end of that season which, despite all the supernatural shit going on, took the time to focus so heavily on those two relationships (and how fundamentally different they are), and having mike have the same realization he had at the end of season two makes no sense because it would mean he accomplished absolutely nothing in his emotional arc during the course season three

especially to claim that he still believes he has feelings for el going into season 4. especially to claim he still believes he has feelings for el by the end of season 4. it's to claim that he has not made any emotional progress in his relationships for at least two full seasons, that he's been going through all of this for it to not have made any conscious impact on him, and the changes in the way he acts from s2-3 and from s3-4 aren't a product of his character developing (growing, changing, to quote hopper's letter) but rather..... ? i don't know actually. just him feeling weird but not understanding himself at all. still. it just doesn't make sense to me. he's one of the main characters of the show, and to keep him emotionally stagnant for 4 out of 5 seasons (especially when we can see that his behavior is changing, that he has not been stagnant at all but rather deeply affected by everything) would be a disservice to his character, first of all, but also a disservice to the narrative which has been showing us his (as well as the other characters') struggle with growing up and growing into himself every season. and it simply doesn't align with what we're being shown

mike is already having realizations by the end of season two. but by the end of season three, he's starting to be really honest with himself about what they mean

#i know i joke about mike being dumb sometimes but some people think he actually is so i try to do it less now lmao #sorry if it comes off rude or dismissive i just think it's a really weird takeaway after watching s3-4 that mike just still doesn't get it #what do you think is happening in his s3 arc if he's still at the exact same place he was at the end of s2? same with s4?#do you think they're saving his ENTIRE sexuality realization coming of age arc for season 5? then what's he been doing so far???#(i also may have updated feelings on when exactly he realized his feelings for will if i said snowball before.. i think there's more to it)#i also think 'it's impossible to tell until we hear it from mike's own mouth' is a bad take. personally. this is the show don't tell show #we're seeing it happen right in front of our salads. we shouldn't need mike to literally come out to understand that he's consciously #struggling with his sexuality and his feelings for will. he knows at this point. he's very very aware #anyway idk if i articulated this very well but i wanted to try to get my thoughts out #posting late so maybe no one will see it anyway lmao #mikesbasementbeets posts #beets posts

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