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markantonys · 5 months

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You saw the leak huh? Mat might go to Tanchico instead of the Waste in s3

i hadn't seen it until i got this ask! i looked it up and here's the source: WoTUp video. usual disclaimer that these are leaks so may not be 100% reliable, although i thiiiiink WoTUp has a pretty good track record for accurate leaks. UPDATE: they actually have a spotty track record with leaks and have reported false ones before (such as that faile would be in s2), so we should definitely be taking this one with a grain of salt!

to summarize the video, the only new piece of info is that mat, thom, and min were (allegedly) spotted filming scenes with elayne and nynaeve for the tanchico storyline. (he also says that elayne, nynaeve, liandrin, ispan, and moghedien were spotted filming for that storyline, which is of course not surprising!) HOWEVER, he says that he has no idea where in the season these scenes fall or whether it means mat is *exclusively* part of the tanchico storyline in s3, so at this point we can't say mat is 100% spending the entire season in tanchico instead of the waste - there's still a chance that he's in the waste for a portion and tanchico for another portion.

now, time to speculate! full book series spoilers below. this will be long because my mind is going a mile an hour!

fact #1: mat's hanging and missing eye were foreshadowed multiple times in season 2

fact #2: in this podcast interview, donal referred to mat's season 2 knifestick as a "makeshift ashandarei" (it could be he was just speaking with book knowledge about what a real ashandarei is, but to me it implies that show!mat will also be getting a real ashandarei. besides, the greatest general of the age inarguably needs a better permanent weapon than a knifestick!)

these facts make me still very confident that we will be getting at least 1 Mat Doorway Trip in the show. but that doesn't necessarily guarantee he'll go to the waste - it could happen anywhere. rhuidean is the book version, but falme has a "room of curiosities" per season 2, and tanchico has a museum thingy per the books, so there are several options for where mat could come across a doorway.

unless they're changing the doorway aspect of the moiraine vs. lanfear showdown (which i don't have any reason to believe they will, especially given mat's missing eye foreshadowing, which indicates moiraine will still get trapped in the finn realm and mat will rescue her), then there needs to be a doorway in whatever location the two of them find themselves in at the end of season 3 (or at least that's my best guess for when the showdown will take place). and i doubt moiraine would get over to tanchico, or that she would've carted a doorway from falme to the waste, so a rhuidean doorway for that plotline still feels the most plausible for me. however, there could be multiple doorways in the show, as there are in the books, so mat could go through a different one. so this entire point actually may be moot then, i guess haha but i will keep it in here nonetheless!

here are the overall options i can think of right now - note that i'm assuming only 1 Mat Doorway Trip for now to keep things simpler, but it's not impossible that he might still have 2 trips like he does in the books.

#1: mat goes through a doorway in falme at the beginning of the season (and gets cpr from rand, who went to the doorway to get his own answers)

-> #1A: mat is told by Falme Finn to go to the waste and does so, but partway through the season he heads over to tanchico (perhaps to fetch elayne at rand's behest because of rumors of trouble in caemlyn)

-> #1B: mat is told by Falme Finn to go to tanchico, and he never goes to the waste at all

#2: mat initially accompanies the tanchico crew of his own volition and goes through a doorway there (and gets cpr from someone who is not rand), and he never goes to the waste at all

#3: mat initially accompanies the tanchico crew of his own volition and goes through a doorway there, but he gets spit out of it in rhuidean (and gets cpr from rand, who has conveniently just emerged from his glass columns trip)

#4: mat initially accompanies the waste crew of his own volition and goes through a doorway in rhuidean, but he gets spit out of it in tanchico (and gets cpr from someone who is not rand)

i will be more crushed than you could ever comprehend if Cauthor CPR doesn't make it into the show in SOME way haha but i will start girding my loins now for the possibility (although i do still think it could happen). and no matter what happens, at least we'll always have Cauthor Homoerotic Stabbing Feat. Extended Cradling!

in all honesty, mat doesn't really Do that much in the waste plotline aside from his doorway trip. i would be incredibly sad to lose out on bonding time with rand and egwene (yet thrilled to get mat-elayne-nynaeve bonding - when god closes a door, he opens a window!), but in terms of mat's overall long-term story arc, there isn't anything for him in the waste arc that MUST take place in the waste, i don't think?

but on the other hand, if they're going to add him into the tanchico storyline, they have to have a good reason for it - it can't just be for the sake of having fun shenanigans and bonding with elayne and nynaeve. so of course, my immediate supposition is that this would be absorbing the ebou dar plotline and thus that the ultimate purpose of mat going to tanchico would be to meet tuon.

and honestly................that's a REALLY good idea! i've said a million times over that tuon and her relationship with mat need to be introduced much earlier in the show than they are in the books in order to have enough time for proper development, so combining the wondergirls' two different trips to seanchan-infiltrated west-coast cities into one trip and thereby having mat meet tuon by the end of season 3? that could be a very clever adaptational choice. we know so so little about season 3 so far that i really don't want to get myself stuck into any assumptions THIS soon haha so i'm going to try not to get to hung up on this idea, but i do feel pretty strongly that the best reason (and perhaps the ONLY good reason?) to add mat into the tanchico storyline is if they want to combine it with ebou dar and use it as tuon's introduction. and this would also work very well with mat's doorway trip, because he'd be getting his marriage prophecy in the same season as he meets tuon (though he and/or the audience may or may not not become aware of it until a future season).

but what would a season 3 mat-tuon meeting mean for future seasons? maybe they would just cross paths this season, then go their separate ways for some individual arcs and cross paths again later for the romance to begin. or maybe tuon would get caught up in mat's plotline for season 4 and potentially beyond.

(i do worry that making mat & tuon meet THIS soon could mean they believe they need to aim for the 5-season model instead of the full 8 because i'm not sure what tuon would do for 5 more seasons after this, but i'm already so far out on the limb of speculation here that i don't want to go any further until we know more! and they could certainly invent plenty of stuff for tuon to do seeing as she did not do SHIT in the books and desperately needs to lmao the seanchan heir being a channeler is something that is huuuuuuugely rife with story potential.)

going back to mat, let's think a little about HIS future storylines, in the scenario of him meeting tuon by the end of s3. i think the only other major pre-ebou-dar thing he needs to do is form the band of the red hand, which could be shuffled around to after meeting tuon instead of before. there's lots of possibilites for it - all mat needs to do is participate in a battle where a lot of other people are also fighting. maybe the seanchan try to invade tanchico, and he rallies the locals to protect the city. maybe in season 4 he carts tuon along with him back into rand's plotline, where he forms the band during one of the many City-Conquering Rand Battles the show has available to choose from (cairhien, tear, illian, caemlyn). i do feel hopeful that even IF tanchico stands in for ebou dar, it won't be the point of mat splitting off from rand & the main gang for the entire rest of the series never to return like ebou dar was in the books. especially because he barely does anything of story significance between ebou dar & moiraine rescue heist, so it wouldn't be hard to just move up the schedule of his & tuon's meeting and then return him to his TFOH/LOC storyline.

(............which again makes me worry they're aiming for 5 seasons total because what would MAT do for 4 more seasons if everything but the moiraine rescue heist is accomplished by the end of s4? but, again, don't want to go too far out on the limb of speculation. and 8 seasons has always been a very very lofty goal in today's era of television, so getting 5 would still be wonderful! and so much of books 7-13 is filler & sidequests that i think they could absolutely tell the most important parts of the story satisfyingly in only 5 seasons.)

@butterflydm and i have also speculated that elayne & nynaeve could potentially reunite with the waste crew by the end of s3 or early in s4, in order to give them some bonding time with those characters (particularly rand & aviendha and lan, respectively). so, if mat is in tanchico with them, maybe he could come along! maybe rather than getting split up in a seanchan attack, mat and the girls all kidnap tuon and flee the city together, and make their way back to the rest of the gang.

and finally, on a different note, min's presence in tanchico. intriguing! my first thought was that maybe liandrin kidnaps her from cairhien because she finds out min knows she's in cahoots with ishamael and doesn't want min to snitch, and that's how min ends up in tanchico. this would prooooobably mean she skips the tower coup plotline entirely, which i think is okay because siuan, elaida, gawyn, leane, and possibly logain would probably be enough to anchor that plotline for us. it would also give min the bonding time with elayne & nynaeve she didn't have time for in season 2, and if my tuon speculations are correct, then potentially min would enter her orbit this early as well, which would be interesting. rescuing siuan in the coup is The Only Thing min does in 14 books so it would be funny if the show cut it djkfjg but they can (and already have) invent new stuff for her to do instead, and honestly, min doesn't really fit in with the coup & salidar plotlines that well anyway since she isn't a stakeholder in anything relating to the white tower - none of that stuff truly MATTERS to her character, she just happens to be present for it. so IF she doesn't end up being in that plotline in the show, not a huge loss imo (though of course, she could still make her way to the tower later on, or maybe she starts in the tower but then siuan sends her to tanchico to investigate liandrin or something).

anyway, i think i've reached the end of my speculation for now, although i'm sure i'll think of more stuff later! in conclusion, this is my current mood:

#anonymous #answered #wot book spoilers #wot show spoilers

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