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ladyluscinia · 6 months

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What Exactly Did David Jenkins Say?

Look, I'm still staunchly of the opinion that Word of God statements and creator interviews are overvalued in fandom, especially when they get pulled out mostly as gotchas without then continuing to analyze whether or not the show canon is successful at getting across that same message. Death of the Author is good, actually, and we should remember that. But they are worth looking at in the context of evaluating intent vs execution, and for future speculation - just, like, please with less of the whole mile high pedestal idolizing and backlash cycles.

But if overvalued "Word of God" is annoying, then overvalued "supposed creator statements that have gone through three rounds of telephone and any given blogger has only heard about a quarter of them, which they'll use confidently anyway" is worse. So, since I'd already looked up interviews for various reasons...

Here is a fairly comprehensive list of interviews David Jenkins has given and statements he's made during them, presented without commentary (save curating which statements get highlighted). All provided with links. I definitely missed some, so if you have any that you want to add, please do - though if you could trim off any commentary and save it for tags / your own post with a link that would be cool.

Also, again, just because he said it doesn't make it incontrovertible canon that only a blind person wouldn't understand. Some of these even arguably contradict each other. The creator's intent doesn't always translate to what the show is doing, nor do you even have to think it was a good idea.

(Listed in chronological order from oldest to newest - post contains spoilers below the cut)

Pre-S1

Gizmodo - Feb 22, 2022 - with Cheryl Eddy (io9) - Link

Why this story - Really, it was the enigma of Stede that drew him in. "I think actual pirate stuff is fine, but it's not necessarily my cup of tea. And I think Taika [Waititi] felt similarly. But hearing about this guy and reading about him and seeing that, you know, he left his family, then he met Blackbeard, they hit it off, and we don't know any of the details in between. So filling those blanks in, and having a very human story, and then being able to do it with the pirate genre, that was like, 'Oh, this would be cool.'"

Post 1x01 - 1x03

Polygon - March 5, 2022 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

About Stede running off to sea - "Stede thought he could outrun his baggage, and you can't outrun your baggage."

About S1 - "I don't think there was enough improv on set! We had an insane schedule, with a huge amount of plot. We were budgeted and designed as a one-hour show, but with a half-hour production schedule, which means we really had to chase these episodes to get them shot. And then there are certain emotional beats that we really needed. So trying to find places to find the fun was hard."

Mashable - Mar 5, 2022 - with Belen Edwards - Link

About the show concept - "It was Jenkins' wife who first told him about Stede's adventures; she thought it would make a good TV show."

On casting Rhys Darby - "Stede did a terrible thing to his family. If you cast it wrong, he's a very hard character to get behind," Jenkins said. "Very quickly, the only person I thought of for this was Rhys [Darby]. He has this childlike quality that's endearing."

About the story - "Seeing them discover a need for each other that neither anticipated and charting how that relationship goes is the meat of the story." + "If you're on this ship, you're running from something, and you're running to something that you can't be on land"

Mentions of matelotage - "In fact, one of Jenkins's favorite pirate facts that he learned while working on Our Flag Means Death was the term matelotage, which was a civil union between same-sex pirates. "The more you look at it," he explained, "the more you write to the fact that this is a queer-positive world.""

Discussing piracy careers - "Something else that astounded Jenkins about pirates was "just how fast it all moved — their lives were quite short," he said. "Your career [in piracy] wasn't very long.""

Post 1x09 - 1x10

Decider - Mar 24, 2022 - with Kayla Cobb - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

Pitch for the show - "That was in the pitch," series creator David Jenkins told Decider. "That was the reason, to make them fall in love with each other."

About the romance - "The main thing to me was to side-step coming out," Jenkins continued. "I just want a romance. I want a Titanic romance between these two people. We don't have to do the coming out story and then the non-binary story for Jim [Vico Ortiz]."

About S2 and the show - "The show is the relationship," Jenkins said. "So, we end in a place where there is this breakup. What happens after a breakup between these two people who, one’s realized he's in love and the other one is hurt in a way that he's never been hurt before? What does that do to each of them in an action, pirate world with them trying to find each other again? So again, I really love those rom-com beats."

Collider - Mar 24, 2022 - with Carly Lane - Link

On making it a romcom - "It's the only reason to make the show. If you didn't do that, it would just be weird. I mean, you're using the rom-com beats. You're using these like they're together. And it's funny because so we're so habituated to be like bromance, bromance, bromance, and it's such a simple move to put them together."

Discusses focusing on romance - "I guess I really... I get kind of bored. How much pirate can you do? They're going to rob stuff. They're going to steal ships. There's only so many pirate stories you can do. So if you're going to do a workplace story, I mean, you're essentially having this... You'd have this same amount of relationships in Grey's Anatomy in the ER. So it's standard. It's the most standard. We're making a soap opera on a pirate ship, and to use those soap opera beats... I like it, and I like the flavor in a comedy when you have something that's played genuinely up against very ridiculous things."

Discusses history and kissing scene

Discusses importance of going home to Mary - "Yeah, that was the problem for me in the story. I knew that I wanted to have the end where he goes home, because you need to give Mary her day in court. I just wanted to know from Mary's perspective what happened and then to see that, yeah, they're friends."

Is Lucius dead? - "You got to wait."

EW.com - Mar 25, 2022 - with Devan Coggan - Link

David Jenkins, Taika Waititi, and Rhys Darby interview

Pitch for the show - "To me, [Stede and Blackbeard's relationship] is the reason to make the show," Jenkins explains. "When Taika and I were first talking about it, he was like, 'Oh yeah, that's the show.' I first started reading about Stede and how he befriended Blackbeard and we don't know why. Very quickly, it was like, 'Oh, it's a romance.'"

Polygon - Mar 25, 2022 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discusses 3-season intent - "I think three seasons is good. I think we could do it in three."

Discusses acts within S1 - "To me, when you see him get stabbed, and the blood runs through his fingers, it’s like 'Oh, no, the clown got stabbed! And not comedy-stabbed, he got stabbed stabbed!' That to me is cool. And then having Blackbeard find him as the end of what would be the first act of our story felt good to me."

Discusses kiss scene filming and the national moment around gay rights

What to focus on a rewatch - "I think Con O'Neill does such a great job. He's such a complex character, and it's such a tortured relationship. And that's a love story too, between him and Blackbeard. It's a very dysfunctional story, but it's fun to watch. Watch that maybe, on a rewatch, looking where their relationship ultimately goes."

TV Insider - Mar 25, 2022 - with Meaghan Darwish - Link

Discusses show pitch - "When I was pitching [the show] to people, I'd be like, 'Okay, so it's about Stede and Blackbeard, and then they hit it off and then they fall in love.' And then people are like, 'Okay, cool,' Jenkins shares. "And then they really fall in love, and become intimately involved."

Discusses historical inspiration

Discusses S2 direction - "But when [Stede] goes to find [Blackbeard], he's gone and his crew's been abandoned. And so watching them try to negotiate that, that's a good rom-com beat," he adds.

The Verge - Apr 15, 2022 - with Charles Pulliam-Moore - Link

Discusses being surprised by queerbaiting legacy - "...part of me knew that, yes, Stede and Ed's romance was going to be real. But one part of me felt like, 'We're going to do this story, and they're going to kiss, and maybe that's not even going to be that big a deal. Maybe it'll just be a blip.'"

Discusses writing romance - "I'd never written a romance before this one, but I think with Ed and Stede, the question's always 'what's the need for each other?'"

Discusses falling in love and Stede's accidental seduction - "It made sense to have that love be almost like a teenage version of falling in love — one with all these intense and conflicting feelings. They're middle-aged, but Stede's young. Ed's young. Emotionally, they're like 16, and they've both got a lot to learn."

Discusses Con O'Neill as Izzy - "He plays an exhausted quality that's really lovely because this character could just be generically evil, and the way Con plays, it is like, he's credible. I believe that he can do some damage if he wanted to. My favorite thing I've seen about the show is somebody saying that Con's playing the only human with a bunch of Muppets. It does feel like that a bit where he's like Charles Grodin in The Great Muppet Caper."

On Izzy being in love with Blackbeard - "I think Izzy's deeply in love with Blackbeard, and it's a very dysfunctional kind of love, and he's like the jilted spouse who's losing his man to fucking Stede Bonnet, and he can't believe this is happening."

Discusses masculinity and piracy as an escape from that

Discusses diversity and trauma based stories - "And the consensus in that very diverse room was that we wanted to show that isn't just wallowing in trauma. We don't have to do a coming out scene or focusing on the trauma of it — not to say that those stories aren’t valid."

Gizmodo - Jun 20, 2022 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Musing on fandom response to the show - "I'm wondering if the fact that because the queerness of this show isn't gaslighting the audience, and isn't a function of wanting to do something, but not being able to produce the results because of network standards. I think we just happened to be in this lucky spot where the show is actually queer… and I do think that people are responding to that."

Comparing fanfiction to writing - "And Con O'Neill's audition was one of those things I would go back to. I would watch that and be like… Oh, right, that's the show. And in a way, you're writing fanfiction for a certain actor and character because you want them to do something, and you're like–" at this point, it must be said, Jenkins let out a maniacal little giggle. He’s just as thrilled to show off Con O'Neill's ability to seem both deeply exhausted and menacing as the rest of the fandom. "And you [as the writer] you're like… And then Izzy does this now."

EW.com - Dec 13, 2022 - with Devan Coggan - Link

Discusses The Chain sequence - "I had initially wanted that end sequence to be like the FBI raid in a mob movie, where the feds come in, and they've got boxes of stuff, and everyone's running, and someone makes a dash for it," Jenkins explains. "So, it's like a mob movie or FBI raid story, and then it's also a story of Stede's lover coming back."

Pre-S2

Collider - Oct 2, 2023 - with Carly Lane - Link

Discusses fan reaction to S1 - "I thought that they'd kiss, and people would be like, 'Oh, cool, cool!' I kind of thought people would know a little bit more [about] where we were going, but then in hindsight, no, people have been hurt and burned on so many other shows and then made to feel silly."

Discusses starting S2 dark - "One of these characters is very, very damaged and has never made himself vulnerable in this way before, and I don't think [he] would react very well to having his heart broken in this way. I don't think it would be cute, and I don't think it would be funny. I think it would be scary as hell to watch a very damaged guy that we've established in Ed, who killed his dad and thinks he's not capable of being loved, deal with rejection and see that Stede really hurt him."

Discusses adding more female characters

Discusses S2 needle drops including "This Woman's Work"

Discusses 3-season arc

Post 2x01 - 2x03

Mashable - Oct 5, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

Discusses fandom response to S1

About the canon gay relationship - "To watch the explosion of enthusiasm around [the kiss] was disorienting, almost," Jenkins said. "I thought people would react to it, but I didn't think the reaction would be that big. And then it was moving, because I didn't realize that this audience felt so unserved in general, as far as storylines go."

Insider - Oct 5, 2023 - with Ayomikun Adekaiyero - Link

Tease on leaning into the Stede / Ed / Izzy love triangle - "I think Izzy, in a certain way, got the worst deal in the first season," the showrunner tells Insider. "He gets jilted and then he still is in spurned spouse territory at the beginning of the second season."

Discusses Izzy's arc - "What is that relationship about? And I think by the end of the season it kind of becomes a little unexpected of who they are to each other and what they mean to each other," he teases

Discusses addition of Zheng - "He likens Zheng's way of pirating to a successful tech startup, compared with the garage sale vibe Stede had going on the Revenge."

Discusses introducing Hornigold - "I thought Hornigold was the most obvious because he was the person who made Blackbeard what he is. And Blackbeard has a father complex, so it's natural that he's going to bring his former captain back," the show creator said. "It's a struggle with him because he and dad figures don't historically do well."

Discusses importance of the mermaid scene

Inverse - Oct 5, 2023 - with Hoai-Tran Bui - Link

Reveals he didn't commit to the romance until shooting 1x06 - "Jenkins always intended his pirate comedy to end with a romance, but he'd envisioned it as an unrequited love. "It was going to be about Stede learning what love is, and Ed making himself vulnerable and getting burned," Jenkins says of his original pitch. But Darby and Waititi's choices in the scene, which they played without diffusing the tenderness with a joke, made him wonder if they could take the show in a new direction."

Discusses mermaid Stede idea from S1 - "We talked about Stede as a mermaid very early on in the writers' room," Jenkins says. "At some point, yeah, I want to see Rhys Darby as a merman." + "They wanted us to come up with a Season 2 pitch during Season 1. And that was one of the ideas we hit on, and I can't quite remember how we got there, but it was us asking, what is a pirate world? Are there mermaids? Is there magic in this show? With pirate stuff, I don’t know that I want there to be magic, but there was a way where it was something really beautiful about a mer-person, and I like the idea that their coming together would have a mythic size to it."

Discusses historical divergence

Discusses matelotage and pirates as weird outsiders

TV Guide - Oct 5, 2023 - with Allison Piccuro - Link

About the shipping culture - "It's the meat of the show, so it's great to have people bought into the central romance. If it were a bromance that we were trying to make look like a romance, that would suck."

Discusses playlists he makes

Discusses opening dream sequence - "I just like that it started with something badass. Stede, Blackbeard, and Izzy are on an arc together. Whether they're in stories together or not, their ultimate arc is together. I think, by the end of this season, the last episode, that first scene will be gratifying. I won't say why, but their fates are tied together."

Discusses Kraken arc - "But I think the thing that's good about this show is that it can go to really sweet comedy land, but I want there to be, like, if someone loses a body part, for instance, they lose a body part. To do justice to the fact that this guy is a killer and a monster, and dealing with heartache that he doesn't know how to deal with, I think you really need to go there."

Discusses Izzy in S2 - "I mean, he's jilted. He had a partnership with Blackbeard, and he knows he can't live up to this person that Blackbeard fell in love with... Who is that guy? What are his hobbies? What does it look like when he's not totally subsumed with his boss's love affair with somebody, and heartbroken?"

On S2 reunion - "The second season is them being a little bit more mature... It's the thing where you're in your 20s or 30s and you're like, "Well, should we move in together?" They have to make up some time because neither of them have been in a functional relationship before."

About genre of pirate stories - "...is a show about multiple relationships. That's what I want to see when I see this show. I don't want to see a bunch of pirate things that I've seen in other things, I'll just go watch another thing if I want to see that. That's not really my thing. I like the genre, but it's a very hard genre to budge. I want to see relationships in a pirate world."

Discusses the A Star is Born aspect of seeking fame / retiring

Mashable - Oct 7, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

About the mermaid scene - "You need something expressive for when they come back together," Jenkins said. "Their reunion moment has to feel big and mythical. This is not a world where mermaids actually exist, but their love for each other has that size that you can get [a mermaid] in there somewhere."

About Kate Bush - "I love Kate Bush, and I love that song, and I know Taika loves that song," Jenkins explained of the choice. "So I wanted to find a place for that song somewhere in the second season."

Polygon - Oct 9, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson & more - Link

Compares S2 and "Golden Age of Piracy" stuff to Westerns, lists 5 he was thinking of - "Every Western that’s good is that story," Jenkins says. "'This way of life we made is coming to an end. It can't last. It's a blip in time. We created this thing because we need it to exist. We're outlaws, and we need a culture that suits us, but it's running out of time.'"

Gizmodo - Oct 9, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Short tease on leaning into the love triangle

About Stede, Edward, and Izzy - "I think the three of them are on an arc together that's pretty inseparable," Jenkins said in an interview with io9. "And to watch Izzy try to process what's happened [in season one]… to watch him kind of grow and figure out what's his own story, if he can separate himself from this kind of toxic relationship, is interesting to me and I think gives him a lot of room for growth."

Post 2x04 - 2x05

IndieWire - Oct 12, 2023 - with Sarah Shachat - Link

Discusses directing and show creation

"The limitations of the show also naturally push it back towards moments with the ensemble and plot problems that it would frankly be irresponsible to tackle if you had a giant budget and a fully working ship-of-the-line to sail and then blow to bits. "That's the fun of the show to us, I think. If you open this up and you're like, unlimited budget, that would be terrible because I think you can get seduced," Jenkins said. "[It could be like,] 'Oh man, it's all leading up to a climatic battle on the sea.' And those things are great. But that’s not this show.""

"The nice thing about that, though, is you get to be the lo-fi show that’s like, 'Hey, we’re making The Muppets.'"

PopSugar - Oct 12, 2023 - with Victoria Edel - Link

About S2 Stede - "I like the idea that he learns and grows and he doesn't just stay a bumbling captain. He might be ridiculous, but he is getting better at it."

Discusses genre challenges - "How do you have a show that's a romance show but it's also a workplace show and they're criminals?"

Discusses Edward's redemption - "But Blackbeard still has to come back and apologize and be part of the community again, and give his little press conference. It was fun for us to look at that in the context of piracy, where they all do terrible things to each other. But even by their standards, what Blackbeard did was a bit much."

Discusses Izzy in S2 - "When Izzy shoots Blackbeard and they all mutiny on him, that's Izzy breaking up with Blackbeard. And they're both having their own journey in the wake of it, and Izzy's having his own redemption arc. He's trying to figure out, "Who am I if I'm not Blackbeard's first mate? Who am I outside of this relationship?"" + "If Stede's Spongebob, he's Squidward. I don't know what that makes Blackbeard. But there's a real pathos to Squidward."

Discusses trauma-based narratives - "As a diverse room in terms of sexuality, socio-economic background, and race, we thought, "Wouldn't it be nice to have a non-trauma-based story for these characters who don't get that historically?""

Variety - Oct 13, 2023 - with Hunter Ingram - Link

Discusses three act structure and making Stede work for a relationship - "The way I like to look at a season is in threes. The end of the first act is when they find each other, and this is the beginning of the second act. They've found each other, but they are pissed. Stede thought it was going to be [Kate Bush's] “This Woman's Work,” but, in reality, it is this headbutt –– literally."

Discusses the central romance - "It was always part of the pitch... that is the reason to make the show. The pirate genre is fun, but I wasn’t dying to make a pirate show. Taika wasn’t dying to make a pirate show. But the thing that was interesting to me was that Stede finds love, and he finds it with Blackbeard."

Discusses 2x04 plot - "This episode is based on a very, very thumbnail sketch of "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?." Anne and Mary are Martha and George, and they are Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton."

Discusses adding historical pirates

Discusses Buttons exit - "I just love the idea of him turning into a bird: I love the idea of Buttons somehow being the one character that is able to figure that out."

Discusses Izzy and the crew's trauma plot - "We liked the idea that there is something about trauma and getting past that trauma, even on a pirate ship. They have been through two very different ways of living and they have to get used to each other again. But it's also a family that was separated, and becoming one family again is painful."

Discusses bringing characters back - "We could bring Calico Jack back, who, if you remember, was hit by a cannonball last season. Anyone who is that fun to play with and wants to keep playing, you always find a way to bring them back."

Polygon - Oct 14, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discusses 3-season arc and how keeping them apart with some plot device was never in the cards - "at the end of the first season, they're 14-year-olds, emotionally. In this season, it's more like they’re in their late 20s."

Discussing New Zealand production and ensemble cast writing - "It's pretty organic, because as we're going through and tracking everybody's journey for the season, we're watching the thing that holds us together — what stage of Stede and Blackbeard's relationship are we in? Because the overarching arc is, are these guys going to learn how to settle into a relationship?"

"The second season is more overtly about romance, and more a relationship story."

Energizing aspect of fan reaction

S3 is about "love is work"

Gizmodo - Oct 16, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

About the story - "I want to see them become a functional couple or fail to become a functional couple," Jenkins said. "Those are the most interesting parts of the show."

Discusses fandom engagement - "...ultimately the writers are also "the fans in the room." He goes on to say that, "We're fans of the world. We're writing fanfic about our own characters, our own worlds… It's paid fanfic, but it's fanfic." He gives another example: "If you're writing a season of Succession, you're writing fanfic Succession. You're just getting paid to do it. We, as writers–" it's clear that he's not just talking about the writers in the writers room, "become fans of the world and we all have things we want to see these characters do. What we do is not that different."

Discusses the A Star is Born aspect of seeking fame / retiring

Discusses Zheng Yi Sao

Villains of the series - There are a lot of new villains this season, but, Jenkins says, ultimately, "the antagonist on this show is normalcy… These pirates have a way of life that they're not finding in normal life. They've found a way to live and support each other and be there for each other. And that's always threatened by these larger, tyrannical forces that want to shut them down."

Post 2x06 - 2x07

Mashable - Oct 19, 2023 - with Belen Edwards - Link

Discussing drag performance in 2x06

"It is nice to see with Izzy's arc, where he finally breaks through whatever he's been doing to himself. He lets himself have that moment, which I just love. It resonates for Izzy, and I think it resonates for Con. Just personally, it made me feel good to see how it turned out."

Consequence - Oct 19, 2023 - with Liz Shannon Miller - Link

Discusses intent for romance - "...telling a love story in a serialized medium like television has its perils, largely because it's tough to know how much you can draw out any unresolved tension. "I think we take it episode by episode and we try to not piss people off in taking too long and doing double beats and triple beats," Jenkins says. "You can only do Will They or Won’t They for so long. Then you have to deepen it.""

Discusses pirate setting - "The emphasis on relationships also fits into the show's high-seas setting, which Jenkins finds similar to post-apocalyptic narratives. "It is a little bit like you're doing Mad Max, except there's relationships," he says. "Stuff's shitty, so you gotta try to find some joy. Of course, people are going to have a need for each other in these extreme circumstances, and I like the idea of these characters finding some level of a healthy relationship in these extreme circumstances.""

Discusses Jim x Archie

Discusses 3-season arc

Polygon - Oct 21, 2023 - with Tasha Robinson - Link

Discussing gender and power dynamics in Jackie x Swede / Zheng x Oluwande / Blackbeard x Stede + A Star is Born aspect

Jim not being jealous of Oluwande - "I think that relationship was always seen in the room as a friend relationship that got romantic."

About adding a villain - "I think a lot of the internal forces in Our Flag are the villains." + "I think this is a story about the age of piracy coming to an end. This way of life is coming to an end. And every Western that's good is that story: This way of life we made is coming to an end, and it can't last. […] I think every story about outlaws is about trying to preserve a way of life against normative forces that are kind of fascistic."

Historical accuracy - "The balance of the show is 90% ignoring history, and then 10%, bring it in, whenever we're like, Ah, gotta move the story forward! Remember, the English are out there, and they're really bad!"

Post 2x08

AV Club - Oct 26, 2023 - with Saloni Gajjar - Link

Killing Izzy was always the plan - "We wanted to show the depth of that character. Izzy is one of my favorites. He's like middle management who is in a sort of love triangle [in season one]."

Discusses how they really wanted the happy ending for S2 - "I think with season one's end, it was a gamble to leave it the way it was. Everybody stomached through it. Now if it turned out they didn't want us to make more, I just didn't want to have another story where the same-sex love story ends in tragedy, unrequited love, or if one or both of them are being punished."

Discusses S2 progressing the 3-season romance - "They’re a couple who is like in their late twenties right now as opposed to being teens at the end of season one." + "It was an interesting tension of, which one gives up their dream? A lot of times in relationships questions can come up, like who is going to give up on their dream to take care of the kids? Obviously, no one wants to, but someone ends up giving up more than they want to at some point. What's wonderful about a mature romance, and what I'd want to see more of in season three, is Ed and Stede making these tough decisions." + progressing past the getting together point

Discusses parallels, Republic of Pirates, and Zheng Yi Sao

Short bit about fan response

Collider - Oct 26, 2023 - with Carly Lane - Link

Discusses Ed leaving fishing - "I like that he had a little prima donna moment where he thought he could go and be a simple man, and then it's revealed that he really isn't a simple man; he's a complicated, fussy, moody guy. No, he's not gonna be able to catch fish for a living. For him to be told that, "At your heart, you're a pirate. You have to go back and do it," he doesn't want that to be true, but it was true."

Discusses Izzy's speech to Ricky - "I wanted to give Izzy a proper eulogy for himself. He gives a eulogy for himself, but it felt true writing it."

Discusses Izzy's death scene - "In a way, it's very much for Ed, that speech. The "we were Blackbeard" is claiming that he is also Blackbeard, that Blackbeard is not just Ed’s creation, and I like that for him, too, because he's worked so hard for that — and then just to say, "You can give it up." There can never be a Blackbeard again as far as Izzy's concerned because he's dying, and they did that together."

Discusses Republic of Pirates / music parallels from premier to finale

Discusses finale wedding - "We knew we wanted a matelotage in the season, which is the real term they had for marrying crew members. And yeah, they've always been in relief to Stede and Ed, and they're a little bit ahead of Stede and Ed in how much they can talk about things. So to have a bunch of family things in the season, like a funeral and a wedding, and have the parents kind of watch the kids sail away, felt right, and all of those things seem to work well together and build on each other."

Discusses retirement ending - "That will-they-or-won't-they is interesting to a point, but the real meat of it is always like, "Can they make the relationship, and can they do better than Anne and Mary?""

"Frenchie's in charge of the Revenge" + teases Stede struggling to give it up

EW.com - Oct 26, 2023 - with Devan Coggan - Link

Discusses Izzy's death and telling Con - "It feels like the logical end of Izzy's arc. It's heartbreaking to me because he's my favorite." + "I told him in the middle of shooting because I didn't want him to find out at the table read, obviously. I also didn't want it to leak. He was lovely about it."

Discusses Izzy's final arc - "You know, I didn't expect him to become kind of a father figure to Ed. I think we hit on that while we were breaking the [final] episode. He's in such a weird position: He's like a jilted lover, and then he's a middle manager who has to work for a terrible boss. He gets thrown away, and then he comes back. He really develops, and he becomes a part of this family. I think the biggest surprise was the extent that he was a mentor to Ed. They were both Blackbeard. They both made Blackbeard happen."

Discusses the happy ending intent - "With this season starting so dark, I kind of wanted to reward them for the work that they've done and the character growth that they've had. I wanted to leave them in a place where they're really going to try and make this work. I don't think it's going to be easy for them, necessarily. They're both still immature."

Discusses the wedding - "We knew we wanted a matelotage in the second season, and pretty quickly we landed on Lucius and Black Pete. It seems like they were ready for that. We made up a ceremony and everything, where they call each other mateys, and it was just fun to make our own version of a pirate wedding ceremony."

Discusses potential S3 and Frenchie's Revenge - "But it felt like a good place to end the second season. It felt like a contrast to the first season. If it turns out we don't make any more, I'm comfortable with that being a resting place."

Variety - Oct 26, 2023 - with Hunter Ingram - Link

S3 endpoint - "I love things in threes," he says. "That first act, second act, third act structure is so satisfying when it is done well, and you don't overstay your welcome. I think this world of the show is a big world, and if the third season is successful, we could go on in a different way. But I think for the story of Stede and Ed, that is a three-season story."

Discusses the draw of a "Golden Age" and it's ending

Talks about father figure Izzy and wanting a real sense of loss - "There is a nice parallel to have Ed treat him so badly at the beginning of the season and then come all the way around to where Izzy is this sort of father figure he doesn’t want to lose — because Ed usually kills his father figures."

Gizmodo - Oct 26, 2023 - with Linda Codega (io9) - Link

Teasing future Izzy - "Jenkins looked slightly sad himself, saying that "Ghosts exist in this world." I told him not to make promises he couldn't keep."

"Jenkins said that he doesn't see Izzy as a pure antagonist in season one because on some level… Izzy was right in his hesitations about Stede."

Discussing Con O'Neill & Rhys Darby acting

Jenkins confirms the season was always 8 episodes due to budget cuts

About S2 finale vs S3 - "The first season ends on such a downer, so it made sense to end the second season in a kinder spot." + "I think there's plenty of story left for season three, but I think that it was important to end this as if it was the end of the show, and on upbeat note and avoid the kind of "kill your gays" trope. I don't want to see Stede and Ed punished for giving it a go. I want to see them really say, 'yeah, we’re going to we're going to try to have a relationship'."

Teases S3 revenge against Ricky and going to the Americas

Vanity Fair - Oct 26, 2023 - with Sarah Catherall - Link

About the ending - "It's bittersweet. There's death and there's the rebirth of Stede and Blackbeard's relationship; there's a funeral, there's a wedding, and the idea that this family is going to keep fighting even as they lose members. And then it's about belonging to something." + "A lot of times, with this narrative of characters, same-sex relationships end on a dour, downbeat note, where one of them dies and it's unrequited or it's unrealized; something horrible happens and they're punished in a way. So it was important to leave it open and a lot more show to go, but also leave it in a place where it's happy."

Discusses Izzy as a mentor / father figure - "We felt like Izzy's story had reached its conclusion, where we put him through enough. And then there was the realization that he is kind of a mentor to Blackbeard and that he is kind of a father figure to Blackbeard." + "And it's also a pirate show, so he's got to die."

Discusses filming challenges - "It's a big show; it's basically a one-hour show that we're doing on a half-hour budget."

Discusses adding Zheng Yi Sao

Is the show a queer romance? - "For this show, it's important to me just to write a really bold-bodied romantic show that happens to be between two characters of the same sex. I think that the story beats don't matter, because if you've been in love and you've been hurt and you met someone you love—hopefully we all know what those feelings are."

Blackbeard's arc in S2 - "...the second season is about Blackbeard's midlife crisis. And then when they both have their midlife crises, they can open a B&B together." + "I don't think Stede and Blackbeard are ready to be married. They're emotionally saying: 'Let's give this a go.'"

Discusses historical piracy as "counterculture" that's been straightwashed and whitewashed

Did he feel responsibility to the fan community? - "As opposed to responsibility, it feels more like relief—that people feel seen and they feel good about it and they liked what we did. And so it feels like, Okay, somebody's out there and wants the show. The makeup of the writers room looks a lot like the makeup of the fan base. So as long as we're true to our stories in the writers room, I think we just feel excited that there's somebody waiting on the other end to enjoy it."

Paste Magazine - Oct 26, 2023 - with Tara Bennett - Link

Discusses whether fandom expectations felt weighty - "I think particularly for this season, that "bury your gays" thing… I didn't want to end on a downbeat for Ed and Stede. We did that in the first season. I like that there's a lot of different flavors. It's even a little melancholy because the Republic of Pirates got blown up. But there's still more good things."

Discusses production and plotting - "I wanted to start at the Republic of Pirates this season and end at the Republic of Pirates. And I knew I wanted the Republic of Pirates to be destroyed, ultimately. Within that, we are making a one-hour show on a half hour budget, on a half hour schedule."

Discusses planning the ending - "In terms of ending this season, it all felt right just in talking through it when we were in the room. It felt pretty intuitive. When you get to the third act of the story, things kind of settle in. There's gonna be a funeral. We always knew we wanted a wedding at the end of the second season. And I knew that I wanted Stede and Ed to start an inn together. So once you have those beats, it's kind of locked in."

Discusses Izzy's arc - "It's kind of a strange arc in that I knew we were going to put him through all these things, and I knew he would ultimately die. But I think him becoming a father figure to Ed in the last episode didn't really dawn on us until we were breaking the last episode. Asking what would this man say to Ed at the end because they've been together through everything? He went from a troubled and downtrodden employee to a jilted lover to a discarded employee, to someone that is just trying to find his footing again—no pun intended—to actually becoming this guy's parental figure on some level. And he's one person who kind of raised Ed right, because Blackbeard usually kills his parental figures. So, it felt right and it felt like that's how the mentor dies. The mentor in a story usually dies in the second act and then our hero has to go on and try to do it without them. It felt like the right journey for Izzy and a gratifying one for Con."

On leaving open for S3 - "I don't think it was a very hard thing to do. I think it was more that I felt a responsibility to leave Ed and Stede in a good place, at least for now. It's not gonna go well. They're not going to run a business well. Ed's too much of a talker. Stede can't focus. It's gonna be challenging."

Vulture - Oct 28, 2023 - with Sophie Brookover - Link

Discussing Izzy as a "father figure" and his S2 send-off being a priority

Meaning of piracy - "...what our pirates stand for is a life of belonging to something larger than they are in the face of a crushing, slightly fascist normalcy."

Re: Con O'Neill & Izzy's death - "I had to tell him about halfway through the season"

Third season about the work of a relationship between still damaged main characters

Discusses middles as about change and transitions, and wanting characters to change instead of reset, have them experience permanent consequences

About the final scene - "...Ed and Stede as the parents kind of watching the kids take the ship. Frenchie's the captain now..."

Objective of the crew - "...have had terrible things happen to them at the hands of colonial forces, so they want some payback. Party, plunder, and payback — the three P's."

Metro Weekly - Nov 1, 2023 - with Randy Shulman - Link

Discusses historical premise of S1 and easing into the romance

Discusses S2 genre - "In the second season, it was great because we know it's a romance and we can lead with that. It's a workplace show essentially. I wanted it to be more in the vein of early episodes of Grey's Anatomy or something where there are all these relationships on those shows. That's what you’re following — relationships and friendships that are taking place in a hospital, procedural. That's Grey's Anatomy. This is less procedural for the pirate stuff — and you need the pirate stuff."

Discusses not being into pirates - "But I'm like you. I'm not a big pirate person. In general, it's a big creaky genre that's hard to budge" + "Pirates of the Caribbean, those movies are great. That's not necessarily what I hunger to see, but in that genre, it's great. You're not going to beat that, especially on something that's lower budget. We've seen a lot of this stuff, so it's fun to take it then and don't do any of that stuff."

Discusses adapting historical piracy - "You don't want to see them punch down. You don't want to see them do terrible things to people who don't deserve it, which is not what they really did. So, in the show's world, I think piracy is like a stand-in for something. I think it's a stand-in for being an iconoclast and an outsider and queer in some ways and just different." + "Yeah, I mean, the British are there to be Stormtroopers, or Nazis in an Indiana Jones movie. I mean, they're in there to die essentially."

Discusses diversity staffing

Discusses performative masculinity

Discusses Izzy's death, happy endings, and openness to S3

#trust me i appreciate the irony of making an extensive word of god reference when i want people to stop blindly promoting word of god #(and also when i'm currently very irritated with the creators)#and fyi showrunners talk A LOT but i was already committed so this was more work than i was expecting #i'll even use a small bit of my extra hour of destiel day to post this (most of it was assembled while watching supernatural)#our flag means death #ofmd #ofmd meta #david jenkins #word of god #ladyluscinia

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suffersinfandom · 22 days

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I don't care when people have takes that don't agree with mine or love characters that I don't. What does get under my skin is when people are smug and self-congratulatory about a take that's just wrong.

"The story of the show in season one was that it was a bunch of people with conflicting personalities shoved onto a boat together."

The story has always centered Stede, Ed, and their relationship. The initial idea of it came from the fruitiness of historical Stede Bonnet and Blackbeard's whole situation, and David Jenkins always meant for it to be a romance about those two guys. (He talks about it in this interview. The romance wasn't added partway through filming, it was changed because of the way Rhys and Taika played it.)

"Season two of OFMD was an ensemble show and season two wasn't."

OFMD was never an ensemble show. Stede and Ed are the primary characters and everyone else, however much we love them, is secondary. Even Jim, the only other character who gets a flashback and a through-line in season one, is a supporting character. And their story is fantastic! It's about finding a place where you can be who you are, learning who you are beyond assigned roles, and finding belonging and family -- and that's also what our A-plot is about. Jim's story supports the main story.

The crew does have considerably more screen time in season one, and that's because season one has more time. I truly, sincerely wish that season two had the space to feature the crew the way season one did because I love almost all of them and wanted more of them. I think that the crew's relative absence in season two is, overall, to the show's detriment.

But let's think, just for a second, about why there was less time devoted to the crew in a season that was much shorter. If the crew's storyline was the main one and if all characters were equally important, why did David choose to spend the time he had focusing on Ed, Stede, and their relationship? Is it because he lost the plot of his own show?

No.

Season two is shorter. Cuts had to be made, so David cut back on the crew's stories and kept the main story -- the Gentlebeard story -- intact. A writer does not sacrifice their primary story for subplots. When you show me that season two has more Gentlebeard per episode, you're not proving that the nature or focus of the show changed. You're underscoring the importance of the story that has always been the show's center.

If you liked the show better when it had more time to commit to the supporting cast, that's okay. I sincerely don't mind that some people liked season two less because it was heavier on the Gentlebeard. I just don't understand why it's so important to downplay the importance of Ed and Stede in the first season. OFMD has always been their show, and insisting that that's not true is bonkers to me.

Literally no one is saying that Ed and Stede should be the only characters onscreen. No one who loves Gentlebeard hates the crew; I'm deep into Gentlebeardie tumblr and there's tons of love for every single character (with maybe one exception). No one is saying that Ed did nothing wrong or Izzy is the devil incarnate or time given to characters who aren't Stede and Ed is time wasted.

There is a right answer when we're talking about what OFMD is about and who the main characters are.

Also: anyone who's still struggling to understand Anne and Mary's importance should read this. Atticus wrote a lovely and concise essay that ought to clear everything up.

Also also: anyone who harasses people, anonymously or not, is the worst kind of fan. There are no fandom opinions that warrant racism, transphobia, homophobia, doxxing, etc.

#ofmd discourse #gentlebeard #i'm so irritated with people today #and i'll probably regret this #but jfc y'all #sorry for the negativity #life's not going great #and neither are the general fandom tags

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apostatehamster · 6 months

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Oh no! Another person's 2 cents on the OFMD finale situation!

Yes, because unfortunately my mind still hasn't settled and is in a state of disbelief over what happened, and I am trying to unravel all of this to make sense of it. Written from the perspective of a sad Izzy fan, so if you do not care to read about that or are simply tired of reading these mind pieces... well don't. And do not bother interacting.

I want to preface this by saying, I do believe Writers should be writing the story they think is right. It is impossible to please everyone so I prefer Author's sticking to their vision rather than bending to the loudest (in most cases, read: displeased) voices of the audience. However, I also think people are entitled to voice their displeasure over writing decisions in a constructive way. I don't condone hate towards authors, actors or anyone involved in the making of the show and if you feel angry enough to send hate or threats, take a walk and calm down instead of being a jerk. That being said, I watched many shows with decisions I did not agree on and few made me as angry & sad as this one, hence me trying to dismantle why.

False marketing, expectations and broken promises

Frankly I hadn't seen much advertising about the show before, most of it was fandom activity that praised the show as feelgood and comfort, with good queer representation. I got into it pretty late, so I can't tell what the show itself presented itself as, but to me it seemed like they fully embraced that image and encouraged the show to be perceived as such. It's a rom-com after all, many laughters and sappy feelings. A safe space-ship for outcasts, so to speak. We expected drama but also making-up and possibly more shenanigans. What we did not expect, was a rather prominently featured character dying as one got used to happening from other shows.

OFMD promised to be different, or at least that was my and many others' impression, and then it turned that around in the last 10 minutes of the finale. But more about that and tonal shifts later.

What baffled me most were the interviews hailing in at the start of season two. I've read articles about how season 2 was leaning into the Ed/Izzy/Stede triangle with David Jenkins saying these three "are on an arc together that’s pretty inseparable". I mean we had Izzy being called a jilted lover before, and in addition to Ed & Stede's love declaration, we also had Izzy declare he had love for Ed, and Ed as well saying He loved him, best he could. There was a lot of love, but it was complicated, and the article gave hope that this season would sort this out.

But after the finale, we got interviews that declared Izzy was a father/mentor figure to Ed, which is such a weird claim that is absolutely unfounded in the way the characters interacted with each other, as well as the fact that Izzy's death apparently was something planned from the beginning as an ending to his arc. And well, I find that death separates characters quite definitely.

I am not saying that Steddyhands was promised to us, gods no, but we were definitely given a chance at it happening, when in fact, the ending had already been written as the complete opposite.

Reception and cognitive dissonance

Every person is different and thus has different feelings and opinions. I've seen Izzy fans hating the finale obviously, I've seen Izzy fans who said they liked it. I've also seen people who weren't explicitly Izzy fans say, they did not like the finale, so really, opinions can go any way.

However what baffled me is Jenkins feeling he delivered a truly happy end. Personally, I've never watched a character die and thought "This makes me happy." I especially would never describe a character struggling through hardship, just to ultimately die as happy or beautiful. I can only imagine that the focus was on Ed and Stede, when a happy ending was mentioned, but Jenkins kept pointing out in the interviews, how Izzy was his favorite, which gave hope for a happy ending for Izzy as well. As much as I enjoy seeing my favorites go through hardships, I also prefer to keep them around by not dying. I especially do not build my favorite up to be a well fleshed out character with growth, just to reduce them back to a plot device for the main character.

I know this is all based upon the interviews, and less on the show, but when I read "And what's the most interesting thing we can do with Con[...]?" my answer definitely wouldn't have been "kill his character off". Con O'Neill does a great job at playing emotional scenes, but we already had him act his heart out in the first three episodes. A last hurrah wasn't needed.

I am also trying to put myself in David Jenkins' shoes here, because I think he truly expected the last episode to be a happy ending, and a gift, just to be proven differently. I just wonder what went wrong, how one can read the room so completely wrong.

It wasn't malicious, but the fact that it was apparently meant to be a genuine attempt at offering a happy end makes it even worse.

Tonal shifts and established in-Show laws

It's an understatement to say that the tone of season 2 was decidedly more dramatic. To the point where I questioned myself if this was still allowed to be called a comedy show. I would have described season 1 as mostly slice-of-life, little adventures between the crew and the captains. People got hanged, fingers severed, people got stabbed, but you never felt the threat of actual death hanging over anyone's head, because everything was kept humorous. (Speaking of the non-baddies here. Calico Jack got a cannon ball to the head but with plausible deniability of his death & (apparently) an interview saying he could be brought back, if needed)

Enter season 2, which starts off with murder attempts, major wounds and a suicide attempt. Nothing was played off as a joke, and for that I am grateful because that would have been in poor taste, but the tone was noticeably different and darker. But it still wasn't 'realistic' by any standard. With no real doctor on board, Izzy should have died from his wounds and comatose Edward would have wasted away in the hidden cabin. Everyone came out (fucked up but) relatively fine.

The show goes back to the humorous tone with Anne & Mary who enjoy a good backstabbing and poisoning. We had our crew surrounded by death and a curse in the next episode, but there was any fear of them coming to harm, obviously. The crew gets boarded and tortured by Ned and his crew after that, but they are able to take it out and come away unscathed (some wounds aside). Oh no! Stede challenges Zheng Yi to a duel! Which we know means no one is allowed to interfere, until one of the duelants dies. But it's fine, Zheng Yi is just playing with her food. But watch out, a Cannonball flies towards Zheng Yi's head! Ah but she is fine, she escaped. The Swede pulled a Rasputin and got immune to poison without him even noticing! Look, even Auntie survived the explosion, badly wounded but she lives. Oh no! Izzy gets shot! But it's his left side, we established no vital organs are there. Roach and Stede are already on their way to get bandage- Wait they are back with no bandages, and Izzy he-

Oh, wait. He...died?

When watching season 2 I legitimately considered Izzy dying as an end result, because I am used to my favorite characters dying, frankly. But then I dismissed that thought because OFMD has proven again and again, that people do not die. Heck, Lucius was considered dead in the season 1 finale and he came back, albeit traumatized. But he lived to tell the tale.

Season 2 finale made it a point to leave no room for doubt that Izzy did indeed die. They dug him a grave, and they panned to his grave at the end to remind you, he is definitely dead. So, why did Izzy have to die in a world where our favorites can survive about anything? "Pirates die, that's just pirate life", okay but why was he specifically singled out to be the only pirate dying? In comparison to everyone else, it feels unjust, and it feels cruel towards the fans who felt safe in the knowledge that this was the one show where none of their favorites would die. And it feels like such a betrayal of the fans’ trust, who had hoped this show would do better.

I've seen a take along the lines of "Nowadays people expect the stories to be written explicitly for them, and then they get upset when it doesn't happen" and that take pissed me off enough to write this down. This isn't a case of entitled fans asking to change the story to be exactly what they want to be, there is fanfiction for that. No, this is fans upset that their favorite character got singled out by the narrative to be the one exception to the no dying rule. And I use the narrative loosely, because there was no ramification to the death that couldn't also have been established by the character staying alive and giving advice, so the death didn't even feel purposeful. And for a show that always stresses the "Talk it through as a crew" point, they did not care much for choosing talking it through as a solution.

I also heartily disagree that Izzy's arc was over and had no more stories to tell. I mean the guy followed Edward around for decades, I would have loved to hear more about their past.

I would have especially loved to hear more about their future, as two people who learned to let go of Blackbeard and became their own people again. Where exactly did the idea of that even come from, I don't know.

Pacing and Confusing decisions in the Final episode and the build-up into nothing

(Rambling alert!)

Personally I didn't feel any pacing issues until episode 6. While I generally liked the episode, it felt crammed with both set-up of the baddie, fun-times, then appearance of baddie (and disappearance) and return to fun-times. The episode ended and I was literally perplexed that it was over, like we basically ran through that episode. But episode 8 took the cake.

Now I am well aware they had to cut corners, and the strike didn't make it easier either, and I wish we could have seen the result without these factors. But we got what we got now, and I have to judge based upon that, but I really would know how the final cut decision came to be.

I did like the beginning with Ed chilling as a fisherman, but in hindsight I wished they had cut that part a bit shorter to give more room for the final parts. We get a lot of Ricky dicking around the pirate republic, showing Jackie reluctantly bringing them drinks. Later on she finally decides to poison him. Why she didn't do so earlier, I have no idea, unless the show is trying to tell me The Swede had to build up enough poison tolerance within one episode to withstand the poison attempt, which would be ridiculous. Why the Swede was held as an emotional hostage, I don't know either. I don't want him dead but Jackie has many other husbands, the Swede being singled out was more to hurt the viewers than for Jackie imho.

We have Zheng Yi suffering through Stede's presence. Our queen is suffering through the loss of her whole crew and her aunt, while Stede unsympathetically offers that being a failure gets easier. I expected more compassion from a guy who treasures his own crew and also enjoyed the hospitality of Zheng Yi's ship, but okay. Being a dick for the sake of comedy, I suppose. "Thing's have a way of working out. At least for me" And Zheng Yi proves Stede right by killing the soldiers, and Stede claims that went just as planned. I am not sure what happened to the Stede who successfully avoided being backstabbed in episode 5 and defended his crew in episode 6 and actually seemed competent, just to go back to an ignorant fool, but hm.

Fisherman Ed returns, thinks Stede in danger, and recovers his leathers that somehow are still in the same place, after mindlessly killing everyone in his way. Whatever happened to not wanting to be a monster and not killing and running away from that, it doesn't matter anymore. The flashback of pop-pop tells him he needs to go back to what he is good at, and I guess... this is it??? The Kraken rises from the sea again. Will there be consequences for Ed's emotional state after that? Well, no. Not really. Or not in this season anyway.

Okay Ricky invites Izzy to a drink, he's quite obviously a Izzy fanboy. For what reason he took him out of prison, I don't know. He later says "Sad, I wanted to let you live", implying he had plans for Izzy. What those plans were, we will never know, Ricky never tells us. Izzy talks about what piracy means to him. "It's not about getting what you want" and I don't know if he means pirates generally robbing ships to get treasure, or of himself being perceived as a mastermind or being a captain, because he never inclined he wanted either. So, what a weird thing for him to say. "It's about belonging to something when the world has told you, you're nothing" is a beautiful line that makes me wish we had gotten at least some backstory to Izzy. Then we're shown a picture of the crew from season 1.... with Izzy in the background, quite obviously not belonging (yet). What an odd choice to cut into. You could have used something from season 2 that showed him actually belonging

Ed finds one of Stede's love letters, it's cute, but I am not sure why we needed that to somehow reinforce that Ed loves him. We already saw him worry for Stede and literally revert to his Blackbeard persona to set out and save him. He also didn't leave because he didn't love Stede or doubted Stede's love for Ed, but because he needed to find himself first to make it work. It's not a long scene but it took a bit of the momentum of the Kraken rising from the water from me.

Ed and Stede see each other again and we have a callback to the episode one opener. Which was also the moment where I slowly realized, death was in the cards for Izzy because that dream sequence meant his death. But no, this is OFMD, it'll be fine...

We're back in the cell, and our mates are trying to escape. Auntie is there! Very much alive, despite having been on an exploding ship. Who brought her there?? When was she brought there?? How long has she been there and why did no one bother to check the cloaked figure in the corner? NEVERMIND, Auntie is here and alive I suppose. Bleeding out and we've got no supplies to treat her, but she will walk it off just fine.

Captain trio congratulate themselves on beating a bunch of soldiers. Honestly impressive, outnumbered as they were. Mh, maybe they should get back to the crew tho...?

Auntie realizing she was harsh on Zheng Yi and admitting maybe she needs a different approach. I am seeing a parallel to Izzy later admitting his approach was wrong too. Except (and excuse the bitterness) Auntie gets to continue to "mentor" Zheng Yi.

We get a weird hard cut from "I don't do soft" to the talk between Izzy and Ricky. I really thought the talk had been talked, but some more insults get thrown at Ricky, and the deus ex machina happens as all prisoners are freed from prison, the captain trio arrives and all soldiers die of poisoning. Personally this was the moment where I had to slow blink in disbelief, because everything was happening so fast.

Stede talks about how they need a plan, and how a royal hostage could prove valuable. Another hard cut "SO, that's the plan". We do not hear the plan. We just gather from the following montage that it has to do with dressing up as English soldiers. We get a montage of everyone preparing for battle and dressing up, looking cool in slow motion. And, they did look hella cool, but there was so much buildup for them dressing up for the plan...without knowing what the plan even IS.

And then the plan apparently is.... just Izzy holding Ricky hostage? And the rest waits around and sees how it plays out? And they're just trusting Ricky to go along with their plan and say what they want him to say? Why was Izzy the one who had to hold Ricky hostage? The one person with a visible wooden leg? Not sure if peg-legs are an established pirate thing in this world, but the British seem to think so, because they look down at it. Why did no one check that Ricky had no weapons on him beforehand? And most importantly, where the fuck was Stede during this suicide plan? He is the one who planned it, yet he was nowhere around the group with Ricky, nor did he fight any Soldiers. He only reappears when everyone is running away. What the hell!! Where'd he fuck off to. Again, all this epic plan build up, for the barely existing plan to go up in shambles within 5 seconds, and then they all run. At this point they could have just left Ricky at the Inn and attempted to walk to the ship safely in disguise without ever drawing attention to the soldiers, and they would have had as much chance.

Ed asks Izzy if he is okay and I raise an eyebrow, A) because we as the viewers barely saw him get hit and B) Ed hasn't cared much about Izzy after Stede returns. But okay, we're stumbling back to the ship, surprisingly no one else gets shot.

Izzy is bleeding out on the ship, Stede and Roach run off to get bandages. "Bonnet is in charge, oh great I am fucked" is a true statement, considering Stede was in charge with the plan already and got Izzy to here. Later you hear footsteps approaching offscreen, which I guess were Stede and Roach. They just appear again, with no bandages and no comment. I don't want to get into detail how much I despise Izzy's parting words, and the message they send out, but Izzy throughout this season proved he wanted to live and got ready for living again, just to end up saying he wants to go here, and it's just so utterly wrong. This scene was presented as someone who was healed and now got to die amongst his loved ones, but he was not healed. He practically still believed he deserved what he got, and he died believing Ed did not need him and thus he was unnecessary. If he truly was healed, he would fight to live, if not for himself and his new found family, then for Ed who he still loves, but no. Okay maybe I did want to go into detail, but anyway, many have said it better than me already.

The crew who bonded with Izzy over the whole season stands mutely in the background, leaving the stage to Ed, who has barely cared about Izzy all season. Out of nothing I am supposed to believe Izzy means something to him, after Ed shot him down, discarded of him, happily mentioned to Frenchie that "But most importantly, no more Izzy" like Izzy had been the bane of his existence, the guy he didn't even have the balls to approach first to apologize but instead mocked Izzy when Izzy himself finally broke their silence, I am supposed to believe that Edward suddenly realizes Izzy's worth and that he deserves to be the one grieving, not leaving any space to the crew? I don't think so.

All season I was waiting for them to make up again, patiently, full of hope, but the remaining episodes got less and less. And I held out hope for them to bond over talks and teamwork, remembering how well they worked together before it turned sour, acknowledging that they could do better if they tried, but instead we got this. This is supposed to help Edward move on as Not Blackbeard, but Izzy had already encouraged Ed to not be Blackbeard, yet Ed came back deciding on his own to don his leather outfit again. This is such a back and forth, it's frustrating. They could have accomplished growth without a death, but I've already talked about that.

Also Izzy telling Ed has family now, because the crew loves him. Ed bonded exactly with one person outside of Stede, and that was Fang, who was once Blackbeard's crew anyway. Other than that Ed only hung back and did not give a shit about what the crew was doing, but sure they love him after the non-pology. Where were the scenes to back this claim up, it was utter nonsense.

Okay, we get a burial. No one says a thing, no one's got to say a thing about their unicorn. Everyone leaves, and "That's that then". Stede talks about Izzy, like he hasn't personally bonded with Izzy over the last episodes and like he was simply a guy Ed dragged along (the way season 1 Stede would have felt). Also, no acknowledgement that Stede's plan was what got Izzy killed whatsoever, no remorse.

Aye no time to be sad, we got a wedding now! It lasts less than a minute screen time, and I am still recovering from the emotional impact of a death scene + burial, maybe give me a minute so I can feel happy for LuPete? No? okay.

Stede and Ed decide to build an Inn, nothing either of them has experience in. Also the "family" Izzy promised Ed is sailing away, so that was for nothing as well. What happened to Stede wanting to be a pirate? What happened to Ed returning to being a pirate, because it's what he's good at? What exactly made them change opinions to leave their crew behind and start this? *lame hand gesture at Izzy's grave* This?? I am usually good at looking for clues and details and figuring stuff out in between the lines, but I am left clueless as to what inspired this.

I am 100% sure there were missing scenes that could have helped soften the blow of the death at least, but like this the episode feels jarringly badly patched together. There is no visible impact to the death that would explain the necessity to the narrative (and yes, we are in a story, not real life. Plot points happen because they bring the narrative along, and it didn't here) With everything established beforehand, it felt like the death got shoehorned in, simply because someone said "I want this character to be dead at the end of the season", and then a story was somehow built around this.

And of course people are upset about this, when I watched I thought it was a joke and I was waiting for the little wink telling me it's not what it seems. The theme I gathered from this season was "belonging", and to see the guy accepting that he belonged and deserved to be loved to be left behind and denied a chance to continue with the crew where he BELONGS, because he's dead and gone, is a very stupid choice.

The season had many unexplained and unresolved things that I chose to overlook because the show was still ongoing and I had hoped they would all work out in the end, but they didn't and this sours the whole experience.

Fandom

This has less to do with me unraveling the happenings of the show, but whatever.

I joined very late, a few weeks before season 2 aired. I was however vaguely aware that Izzy was controversial to the fandom and that fans got hate mail for liking the character who "broke the main couple apart". So going into the new season as someone who utterly loved Izzy in season 1, I was skeptical lol

But it was a nice experience. Season 2 showed parts of Izzy that I had already seen but in a way that made it clear to everyone that this guy has Emotional Layers TM and is capable of more than just being the guy throwing a hissy fit. Everyone could sympathize with him, people enjoyed seeing him, and I legit loved going through the tags of the gifsets and reading all the reactions.

Generally I loved seeing the reactions after every new episode, seeing how fandom came together to talk over what happened, and over what they enjoyed. I had expected a very split fandom but it seemed season 2 was somewhat gluing it together. Izzy was finally an "accepted" character and thus it was "okay" now to love him, now that he wasn't trying to break Ed/Stede apart either. The show was feeding fans too, I felt like I feasted every episode up until the finale happened.

And /then/ the finale happened and the illusion went away.

Up to then I thought this was a season for the Izzy fans, with the opener episode showing how ridiculous the take of "Izzy has to die for Ed/Stede to be happy" was in a mocking dream episode, I thought that was David Jenkins acknowledging the hate that has been sent in the direction of Izzy & his fans, and how it's Not That Easy. And then he proved Izzy was more than that.

And then he killed Izzy off, so Ed/Stede could be happy and we've come full circle again.

Of course Izzy fans were upset, because it felt like a final fuck you after a season full of promises that it would be okay, and of course people were voicing their displeasure and sadness over it. Some people were downright grieving the character, and I can tell you I Am People. I went through the 5 stages of grief, through bargaining and anger directly after the finale, sadness the whole day after, crying over it because it felt so unjust to me. And maybe these reactions seem extreme to you, but that does not mean that people aren't feeling awful about the finale, that it truly hurt them. And you do not get to mock people for feeling in pain. What do you gain from that? If you liked the finale, fine, everyone is different, but allow the people who were shaken by it to express their emotions. Processing emotions takes time, and as a part of this I wrote a goddamn essay to make peace. The least you could do is not be a dick.

Parting thoughts are that the final episode was both a product of unfortunate cuts in screen time, and a writer who didn't expect the effect it would have on the audience.

I am not hating on David Jenkins, I loved every other episode of the season and eagerly anticipated the next one, but I am so incredibly sad that one botched finale broke my trust into the show, soured my love for the previous episodes with the knowledge of what it all built up to, and left the fandom back in shambles.

So long, and be kind to each other.

#ofmd s2 #ofmd season 2 spoilers #izzy hands #ofmd meta #That was the longest I've ever typed. But also at least I feel more content now #You actually do have my respect if you went through this #and to everyone still struggling with sadness: i feel you #ofmd critical

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emptymasks · 6 months

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so there's an interview with david jenkins up on gizmodo about izzy's death and i have feelings. again.

the interviewer is a big fan of izzy. and jenkins is upset that they are upset about izzy's death. i know he probably doesn't want to make people really upset with izzy's death. but how could he not have known how beloved izzy was. perhaps he didn't realise how many more people would come to love him over this season.

trying to console the interviewer by saying "ghosts exist in this world" since when? buttons turning into a bird might not even be canon, it's left as this maybe, so don't make up and give false hope that he could come back as a ghost. that feels cruel. i know he's trying to make the interviewer feel better but man. don't make promises you can't keep.

of course he took it hard.

izzy didn't get much time to belong though. i love that speech he gave. but for him to get punished for it. to kill of the character with the most growth because it doesn't matter because he's not as important as ed. izzy deserved better than to a plot device for ed to grow.

'to see their friend go' uh.. i don't think we got to the point where stede and izzy were friends yet. sadly. because he died too soon for that to happen. i think being buried near them, and without his ring that they took of his corpse, is selfish on ed's part.

i don't know how this is kind. i don't know how you can describe this as kind.

i... am almost laughing since i feel so delirious reading that. you wanted to avoid killing your gays by.. killing one of your gays. right. an.. upbeat note.. i.. how.. did you really think no one liked izzy that much? maybe he didn't expect so many new izzy hands during season 2 but...

again the interviewer gets upset about izzy's death. jenkins tries to console and comfort them but couldn't. i can't believe he didn't see this coming. i'm sorry he's sad too. though surely he wanted people to be sad? to feel sad about izzy's death? maybe he didn't think anyone would take it this hard. but i'm sure con could have told them different given the stories i know people have told him about how much izzy means to them. i think it's wrong to call the show homophobic, i think the show is still a great piece of lgbt+ representation. and i also think the ending was rushed and izzy's death wasn't fair (and not enough people accept that ed abused him and was his abuser and no one should have to give their abuser closure) but i think if he had to die it could have been defending the crew, and not being stupid enough to let ricky have a gun, because that didn't feel very in character. i just. i'm with the interviewer. i'm not mad at jenkins i'm just disappointed and upset. and i know he didn't mean any of this maliciously, and yes i know it's all fictional, but people are still allowed to complain and be hurt. no matter how stupid you think that might seem. there's no need to get angry at people who are upset about izzy's death. these are just my thoughts and feelings and there's no ill will too anyone who disagrees with me.

i'm sad at you.

#lets kill of the suicidal character im sure that'll look good and people wont be upset at all #our flag means death #our flag means death spoilers #izzy hands #my rambles #mine

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laufeysodinson · 2 years

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Simps and Riddles

Pairing: Chris Evans x Actress!Reader

Rating: G

Warning/s: none??? too much fluff?? too cheesy?

Summary: reader is asked the question, “how did you know chris was the one?”

A/n: i read after i do by taylor jenkins reid and was inspired. i haven’t written in a year, please be kind! 🥹🫶🏼 also not proofread!

also!!!!! inspired by @astranva’s pe universe but is not related in any way to her series. the pe universe has inspired me to write and get in touch with the creative part of my brain once again. thank you for sharing your brilliant ideas and writing with us! 🥺💖

“i know in this film your character is in love and married to someone whom she instantly thought to be her other half… now i know you don’t usually answer questions like this, but i’m taking my chances. so….” the interviewer smiled and put her hands together.

“you’re married to chris evans. how did you know he was the one? what moment made you think, ‘this is it. this is the man i’m going to marry’?” you were never one to talk about your personal life during interviews. but just this once, you figured you’d humor them because you were tired and bored of the same questions you’d answered repeatedly. as if it was another script you’d memorized for a film.

“well it wasn’t like in the movies where one thing happens and then you have this profound realization or some sort of epiphany… it was a collection—i guess a supercut.” you laughed, thinking about how cliché it could be to use this term related to movies as a metaphor.

looking at a spot next to the interviewer, thinking deeply you continued, “there was him saying ‘what can i do? how can i help?’ there was him sending a text that said ‘this made me think of you.’”

you looked back at her, seeing her listening intently with a small smile on her face. you chuckled, remembering a moment which you were sure the entirety of the internet also knew. “and—and there was the time when he was trimming dodger’s fur and accidentally shaved a bald spot on the side of his body. he sent me the picture with a message that just said ‘i think i did something wrong. send help’ and i could remember looking at it and laughing so hard.”

of course there were the more intimate moments—ones which you’d like to keep just to yourself and hold onto so tightly with the memories in your hands. these were the quiet nights where you both couldn’t sleep and end up in the kitchen at 2 in the morning to eat taco bell leftovers from the other night just for your stomachs to regret it a few hours later.

times when you’d both be reading a book in the living room, seated on opposite ends of the sofa with your legs right next to each other and asking him, “if you woke up one day and i turned into a worm, would you still love me?” he’d look up from siddharta—reading it for the thousandth time—smile at you with a twinkle in his eye and say, “of course, honey.” then his head would tilt to the side, “would you still love me if i turned into a worm?” you would smirk and say, “ew. no.” he’d tackle you and put you over his shoulder with his other hand tickling your side, you squealing “fine! i would—i still would! chris!”

realizing that you’re getting lost in your thoughts, you snapped back into the present. breathing out you said, “these moments are what made it all click together like a riddle i’ve been trying so hard to figure out my whole life.”

“and it doesn’t stop there. i think everyday there are still moments that add onto this supercut in my head. there are still moments that solidify or kind of—i don’t know… like… emphasize this thought in my head that says ‘hey! this is the one, dude!’”

another core memory popped into your mind, your hand about to go to your belly but remembering that the world doesn’t know and you’re not ready to share the most special one just yet.

you shrugged and smiled sheepishly, “sorry for rambling! i hope that made sense.”

“no i absolutely loved your answer!” the interviewer gushed—no doubt more than glad about the insider scoop she received from you that others didn’t.

once the interview aired, it went absolutely viral. everyone in your family and friends (both from yours and chris’ side) teased you about it, not used to you getting really personal during interviews. sending screenshots of headlines that say “who knew y/n would be a simp for chris evans?” to group chats where you and chris were both in.

fans on twitter going absolutely wild, with tweets that became a topic of conversation between you and chris during breakfast or when you’d both walk dodger together.

@/cevansfan: i want them to adopt me PLS

@y/nchris: THEY BETTER END UP TOGETHER FOREVER

@y/nforlife: wow what a great day to lie down on the highway 🥰

and a few months later, you were finally ready to share one special moment from your supercut with the world.

chrisevans

Liked by imsebastianstan and others

chrisevans The answer to all riddles✔️

Worm❓

Love of my life✔️

Wife✔️

And just a few weeks ago… Baby mama✔️

What else could I ask for? 💙 @/yourusername

View all 54,637 comments

octaviaspencer I cannot wait to see you guys soon!!!!!!!!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

y/nchris WAS THAT IN REFERENC ETO Y/N’S INTERVIEW A few mONTHs AGO I’M CRYinG

scottevansgram Feels like yesterday when you were my father in a play 😂😂😂 now I get to see you as an actual dad. Love you guys!!!

pic by henrygolding on ig! i love him and liv and their little baby so much ❤️

#chris evans #chris evans x reader #chris evans x you #chris evans fanfiction #chris evans x actress!reader #I HAVEN’T WRITTEN ANYTHING IN SO LONG

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three--rings · 6 months

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God that David Jenkins interview collection post I just reblogged...

I hadn't read the Paste interview and my god David I have to just...marvel at some of this.

In particular:

"But I think him becoming a father figure to Ed in the last episode didn't really dawn on us until we were breaking the last episode. Asking what would this man say to Ed at the end because they've been together through everything? He went from a troubled and downtrodden employee to a jilted lover to a discarded employee, to someone that is just trying to find his footing again—no pun intended—to actually becoming this guy's parental figure on some level. And he's one person who kind of raised Ed right, because Blackbeard usually kills his parental figures. So, it felt right and it felt like that's how the mentor dies. The mentor in a story usually dies in the second act and then our hero has to go on and try to do it without them. It felt like the right journey for Izzy and a gratifying one for Con."

Like, okay we, the writers, hadn't considered him a father figure or mentor at all until the very last episode where we killed him. But we came up with it as we were writing it.

And then we didn't put anything about it into the episode at all, and then we talk about it in interviews about how obvious it is as a mentor relationship and like...I'm sorry. Yeah it was surprising to all of us as well, because you may have suddenly thought of it like that when you were DESPERATELY trying to justify this death to yourself as NECESSARY because you'd decided it WAS, but you also

DIDN'T PUT ANY OF THAT ON THE SCREEN.

So no, the audience is not on the same page, cause we weren't a part of those discussions you had. That only came up in the last episode. You can't in like 4 minutes of a 25 minute episode, the very last episode of 18, introduce a character dynamic when one of the characters is dying.

That's not how writing for TV works! Does he really think he put the Izzy is a father figure stuff on screen somehow in that death scene? Cause like, sure Izzy is showing AFFECTION for Ed in that scene, but there's nothing there that is PARENTAL. And family, which Ed says, doesn't mean that either. The ship is family. Queer family is different. IDK IDK.

And like it reminds me of something else he said in another interview, about Jim and Oluwande and how "in the writer's room we always thought of them as a friend relationship that got romantic" and that's why they got other partners. But like, okay, if your intent was they were more friends than romantic (which, I'm not sure that's what you mean, but if you're using it to say that's why they are now into other people, okay?) then did you convey that to THE ACTORS? Because it feels like the actors were definitely playing ROMANCE in S1.

That's what ended up on the screen. Two friends falling in love, sure, but actually falling in love and not just two friends who sleep together, as S2 tries to imply.

IDK but I really want to be like, dude sometimes it's not about writer intent. Sometimes it's about what ends up on the screen and you need to step back and look at what your audience is seeing. Because your actors are doing a lot of things that may take things to different places.

#ofmd #ofmd s2 #ofmd meta #my meta #david jenkins

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captainkirkk · 1 year

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✩ WEEKLY FIC ROUND-UP ✩

All the fics I’ve read and really enjoyed in the past week-ish. Reminder: This list features any and all ratings and themes. Please look at tags and warnings on ao3 before reading.

my dearly departed by redrobin1989

Kon heard the stories about how Tim had fallen apart after he died. He couldn’t imagine what Tim had gone through, what he’d been feeling. Even now, with the shoe now on the other foot, Conner doesn’t know how to cope. Especially when he needs to keep his boyfriend’s collapsing family together.

Exit Strategy by smilebackwards

Batman needs a Robin and Batman has a Robin. Tim is just extraneous now, vestigial. He’s a bandage over a healed wound. He doesn’t know what he’s hanging on to.

Or: Tim didn’t expect his exit strategy from the Batfamily to involve quite so much bonding time with Damian over Wayne Enterprises bureaucracy.

the capillaries in my eyes are bursting by Scarlet_Ribbons

Bruce grunts, standing up. “Jenkins said the same. What about what you weren’t told?”

And without dissembling, Jason says, “I think they fucked that kid up, B.”

[Jack and Janet die. As things get weirder and weirder, it feels like Tim might be at the center of the unfolding conspiracy.]

Stranger Things

and i know that you don’t, but if i ask you if you love me— by fakecharliebrown

Once, only a few weeks before his parents decide he’s too old to be tucked into bed at night, Steve grabs his mother by the wrist and asks, “Does Father love me?”

“Of course he does,” she says immediately, smoothing the blanket where it rests over his chest.

Steve blinks up at her. “Then how come he never says it?”

She purses her lips. “He shouldn’t have to, sweetheart. You should just know.”

(It isn’t until years down the line that Steve realizes she’d somehow turned that into being his fault.)

or; Steve Harrington through the years, on loving and being loved.

Percy Jackson

percy jackson and the scrutiny of his coworkers by pqrker

Jim turned back to the tank and looked at Marcie the seal, who was now staring at the spot his coworker had been standing just moments before with that same strange look of reverence in her eyes.

Percy Jackson truly was the oddest person Jim Elpool had ever worked with.

Or: 5 times percy's coworkers were confounded by his fish magic, plus 1 time they try to figure it out.

Star Wars

Bounty by smilebackwards

"You took a puck for Luke Skywalker?”

Din looks up at the tenseness in Cara’s voice.

“Yes?” The puck for Skywalker had been passed over by half a dozen hunters, surprising considering the price on his head, but Din had assumed that was because his last known location was Coruscant. The Core is a dangerous place to hunt bounties.

“If I didn’t consider you a friend,” Cara says, with a tone that sounds like she’s reconsidering it, “I’d shoot you where you stand for admitting that."

SVSSS

What Is Seen by CaveteDracones

....is not [always] the real truth.

Truth-compelling artifacts in the hands of an enemy to one side, SYSTEM-mandated silence on the other, and Shen Qingqiu caught between the two. Is it too late to go back to the Water Prison?

and judgment is just like a cup that we share by Kieron_ODuibhir

The blob finished rotating into place in a way that wasn’t quite compatible with geometry as Shen Qingqiu understood it, and cleared a throat it didn’t seem to have.

“Greetings,” it said, somehow clearly addressing him in particular more than the room as a whole despite its total lack of features other than blueness and translucency. “I’m here on behalf of the Hyper-Celestial Peace and Order Enforcement Bureau. Crime scene secure, proceeding to interviews. Beginning with Subject One: You are Shen Qingqiu, formerly Shen Yuan, also known as Peerless Cucumber?"

#happy monday everyone #i'm so exhausted i made this list with my eyes half closed #my posts #weekly fic round up #fic recs #svsss recs #sw recs #pjo recs #dc recs #stranger things recs

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epersonae · 2 years

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Writers Guild of America, East interview with David Jenkins (I've seen another link floating around but this one has a transcript, which I read instead of listening to the audio)

there's a lot of interesting stuff about process in this one, both the writing and the production, and the fantastical imagination of what they're trying to create. (note the Princess Bride reference!)

I'm particularly obsessed by/fascinated with this line in particular:

the first team is the writer’s room, which is going to be the brain of the show and it’s going to be the sociological imagination of the show

I think this also says a lot about where the show is coming from:

you’re looking for different writers and you’re looking for people of all different backgrounds and then you find them and very quickly it’s like, “Okay, cool. Now who’s writing comedic characters that I believe in? I believe that they have something going on internally. They’re not just jokes.” I don’t like comedy, I call it life is cheap comedy, where people are mean to each other and that’s the joke. I don’t like that.

also, what the fuck:

[Taika Waititi] talked about master and commander. I talked about 24 hour party people because I thought we could maybe combine those vibes, maybe those are two vibes that could be in the show.

#also it will never not be hilarious to me that he saw that the real life people sailed together and went: this is a romance right?#it's been a hot minute since I've watched 24 hour party people #ok someone write THAT AU lol #ofmd #ofmd interview #aaaaaaaaa he's in new zealand right now #also joking about Cate Blanchett jfc

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noodyl-blasstal · 6 months

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Oops, Come Dine With Me

It's @taznovembercelebration day 7! Today I got "Cooking" and drew another card, "Bakery AU"

You can read yesterday's prompt here and today's below.

Taako answers the phone, tucks it between his shoulder and ear, grabs the cookies, and closes the oven door as quietly as possible with his knee. "Go for Taako."

"Tah-kow, darling, how are you?" Asks an overfamiliar voice. Definitely one of the twins from the production company, Taako isn't sure which one, maybe Edward?

"Cha'boy's just wonderful, thank you so much for asking. How about your good self?" Taako rolls his eyes, but it’s worth playing the game as long as this pays off.

"I'm splendiferous, just peachy, and so thrilled to tell you the outcome of your interview."

Taako waits, there's so much riding on this. If he can just get the money he can afford the bakery. There's no way he's letting Jenkins get it instead, but Jenkins has family money and Taako has one sister who’s as broke as he is. If Jenkins gets it Taako's going to have to leave, going to have to charm his way into another restaurant or bakery because boy does he not have the qualifications for it. His macarons can only take him so far in life. But if he gets to own the shop? Then he can branch out. Taako can bake better than anyone, but he cooks too. He's a baller chef and once the bakery is his he can prove it.

"Are you still there dear?" Edward asks, Taako's fairly sure it's Edward, not that he’ll gamble and use his name yet.

"Yeparooni."

"Aren't you going to ask what the decision was?" Edward sounds pissed off, but Taako hates playing games. It's worth it though, well, if he's got the spot.

"Sure. Did cha'boy knock yours socks off?"

"We were impressed by your skills, and very intrigued by your husband's menu theming - a fan of the macabre you said?" Shit. He didn’t think they were going to ask about it… maybe Taako didn't completely totally and fully think this plan through.

"He sure is!" Taako says brightly. "Big fan of death. Loves a goth bird too, you can probably tell." Taako had channelled him hard when he wrote that menu.

Edward laughs, polite and insincere. "Yes, well, such a shame he couldn't make it to the interviews."

"Mmhmm." Taako replies, attempting the most mournful voice he can muster. "It was deeply difficult to do something so important without him there, but, you just can't argue with explosive diarrhoea, can you?" Well, hopefully he wouldn’t.

Edward makes a choked noise of disgust on the other side of the phone and it fills Taako with vindictive glee. Serves him right, honestly - how dare he ask Taako about the husband he’s entering Couples Come Dine With Me with and mentioned multiple times throughout the interview.

"How.. ah... romantic." Edward's clearly struggling not to let his disgust shine through and failing miserably.

"Thank you, we're very deeply in love." Taako says, doing his best impression of Taako Tacco: married guy.

Edward chuckles. "I'm sure you are, and that you'll be delighted to hear that you get to demonstrate that love to the nation - you’ve been selected for the show!”

Edward’s so effusive that Taako feels he should do more to celebrate than a silent fistpump. “Wowwee! Golly gee! What wonderful news!! I’m jumping for joy!” Taako does jump, three times, just in case Edward can hear somehow.

“I’m so glad you’re excited. We’ll just need you and, Kravitz to meet with the producers to hand in your final menu and we can discuss filming your sections.” Edward’s in business mode now.

“Just to check…” Taako ventures. “... just in case, you know, it comes up, what would happen if my beloved, darling Kravitz were still too unwell to take part?” Taako tries to sound as innocent as possible, it’s a perfectly ordinary question, anyone would ask it.

Edward laughs once. “He won’t be, Taako.”

“I’m sorry, what?” That sounded like they’d marionette his corpse round if he tried to back out.

“It’s <i>Couples</i> Come Dine With Me, Taako. No husband, no shot at the prize, we’ve got back up couples.”

“Uh huh.” Says Taako, cool, totally normal, nonchalant, in fact. “So, if he were ill, could I bring a friend? My sister would do it.”

“That’s not really the kind of show, not to judge of course, but the couples do have to be legal. Anyway, ta ta! Watch out for the email from production.”

Edward’s gone. Taako stands alone in the kitchen with a tray of cookies and the mess he created. He pulls out his phone:

Taako [15:27] Hey Krav, wanna get married?

#I think I might expand this later because it's the perfect recipe for chaos...#TAZ November Celebration #TAZ Balance #Taakitz #Balance fic #TAZ fic #Noodyl Writes #taznc

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suckerforobliviousidiotsinlove · 6 months

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I was just thinking about my theories for the next few episodes based on the episode descriptions for 6 & 7 and an interview with David Jenkins and I came up with something.

Don’t go further if you don’t want spoilers for the episode 7 description, this is all speculation at this point. If this happens to be similar to what actually happens it’s completely an accident.

Anyway read further at your own risk

So I’ve seen some of the reactions from reviewers who have got the final episode early and it’s very similar to what reviewers were saying about good omens season 2 so I’m not really expecting a happy ending. I mean this is David Jenkins so it’s definitely going to be a cliffhanger.

And then I saw this episode 7 description and David Jenkins interview on TikTok:

Now I really focused on the whole Stede wanting to be a great pirate and Ed wanting to retire part.

And I thought what if the season ends with Ed settling down to retire on land and Stede setting off to be a great pirate with the promise to return after a certain amount of time (let’s say a year). Now this would be technically happy but in a bittersweet way because they would be separated so soon after they’ve reunited.

And then it got worse…

I thought about Ricky and this other pirate guy (I can’t remember his name) and how they would play into this.

What if after Stede takes off on his pirating adventure he gets captured. Ed wouldn’t know because there’s not exactly an easy way to communicate so it wouldn’t be odd to not hear from Stede. And that’s where the season ends.

Season 3 starts. It hits the one year mark and Stede isn’t back.

No worries though maybe he got delayed by a storm or something.

But then more time passes and Stede still isn’t back so Ed goes looking for him (which would parellel season 2 Stede looking for Ed and we know how much they love a good parallel) but Ed has no idea if Stede is dead, has been taken, or has decided Ed wasn’t worth it after all.

And then if I was writing this because I’m really mean I wouldn’t let the audience know whether or not Stede is ok either. The only thing we see is Stede being taken so we don’t know if he survived until Ed finds him.

Anyway hope you enjoyed please don’t kill me and if this happens it’s not my fault I did not manifest it.

#ofmd s2 spoilers #this is completely made up only taking inspiration from an episode description and an interview #basically fanfiction #ofmd #ofmd speculation #our flag means death #edward teach #stede bonnet #gentlebeard #blackbonnet #ofmd s2 #ofmd fandom #ofmd spoilers

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frooogscream · 5 months

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So David making the show gayer and listening to his collaborators... is a bad thing. Even if you weren't twisting his words, you're not making the point you think you are.

I did never say anything like that, what I sad is that the show was never supposed to be so queer in the beginning and that pretty much all of the queer details about the characters came from the queer actors. My conclusion was not “David Jenkins bad because he didn’t want to make a queer show”, my conclusion was “it is beautiful that these queer people poured their hearts into it and created something with a lot of meaning for other queer people”.

Yes I also used phrases like “we were never even supposed to have what we got” and “This show was NEVER supposed to give us beautiful things and treat it’s queer characters with “kindness”! It was NEVER supposed to be for queer people!”, implying that I personally felt like s2 made some choices that I, with my personal experience as a queer person was disappointed in (such as cutting all the poly scenes and killing of the older queer characters right after giving him a coming out arc, in doing so removing an actor who is very vocally supportive of trans people which I, as a trans person appreciate and used the opportunity on convention panels to talk about queer rights and removing the only of the three most central characters in s2 actually played by a queer person, etc.).

But that was just a tiny and implied undertone in an overwhelmingly positive post, in which I praise the cast of the show. And for the record, I DO think that it is great that DJ made these adjustments, I work in theater and occasionally in film and know that it is also not uncommon or bad to make changes as the project evolves and actors flesh out the roles more. I simply pointed out that he is not the one who originally had the ideas to make it this queer and that he originally didn’t plan to let the main queer love story end with a happy ending. Firstly this is not a bad thing, there are a lot of shows out there that aren’t queer, no body is “required” to make queer shows. Secondly where the hell am I twisting his words, he LITERALLY said all of the things I listed as changes towards a more queer show himself and you can find all the interviews linked in the source I gave in my post! Again the over all tone of my post was “oh my god, look what crazy info I stumbled upon and isn’t it fucking fantastic that these gorgeous queers have turned this regular show into something that means so much to us”. And that you manage to take that positive post and read something sooooo negative into it, just because someone dares to say that maybe David isn’t this amazing queer rights activist that some fans make him out to be and didn’t plan on making a revolutionary queer show, is honestly baffling to me.

I am also not “trying to make any point”, this is my personal block with barely 30 followers where I described my personal feelings towards factually true information and my personal feelings are:

I fucking love Vico, I fucking love Con, I fucking love Kristian (also Nathan and every queer person who worked on this behind the scenes) but I’m not gonna kiss David Jenkins feet for something that wasn’t even his idea, I don’t “owe” a cis straight guy who dosnt understand half of why the things his queer cast came up with are so important, gratitude. I gladly and freely extend a big fucking chunk of gratitude to queer actors who put their heart and soul into their queer roles way more then they are required to. Hope this helps.

#the gentlebeardies are at it again #now you can’t even compliment the actors anymore without being a hater #ofmd season 2 #ofmd drama #ofmd #ofmd s2 #ofmd discourse #fandom culture #why the fuck is this fandom so toxic #why are you going into peoples post just to tell them they like the wrong things about a show #I don’t purposefully search for gentlebeard posts just to yell at them that actually Stizzy is way better #If you disagree with a take based on actual show facts argue about it in a polite way #If you dislike a take ignore/block and move on but don��t come at people screeching “you’re wrong/not making the point you think you make”#our flag means death #toxic fandom #ofmd 2 #david jenkins

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ladyluscinia · 4 months

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Draft clearing. I think I had more of a point on the topic of Jenkins and genre I wanted to make when I gathered these, but I'm not feeling it anymore. However, I need spread awareness of his absolutely baffling ideas about pirate media and how he sounds half-convinced it must be a formulaic action/adventure. I only picked up on this by reading way too many interviews back to back so I'm not surprised I've never seen anyone else mention it, but like. It's wild. And he's SO additionally weird about how showrunning a piece of media about pirates relates to whatever concept he has of pirate media in his head.

Here's the link to my interview compilation if you want to check my sources on these.

Jenkins Quotes on "Pirate Genre"

"I think actual pirate stuff is fine, but it's not necessarily my cup of tea. And I think Taika [Waititi] felt similarly.

[...]

Showrunner Jenkins sees Our Flag Means Death as having "joy. A lot of joy. I like Stede because Stede is, to me, the outsider artist of pirates. And I think in designing the show, I was conscious [of the fact that it's] a hard genre to do anything to. It's a very stubborn genre because it's been done so well and so often. So I kind of tried to look at, like New York, like Alphabet City in the '80s via a pirate genre via Mad Max and try to throw all these different things at it. So I think you'll get a different feel than you'd get on a normal pirate thing. I think we achieved that with our amazing crew." - (Gizmodo, 2/22/22)

"I guess I really… I get kind of bored. How much pirate can you do? They're going to rob stuff. They're going to steal ships. There's only so many pirate stories you can do." - (Collider, 3/24/22)

Despite creating a pirate show, he himself says he's not a huge fan of pirate movies. - (EW.com, 12/13/22)

"I don't want to see a bunch of pirate things that I've seen in other things, I'll just go watch another thing if I want to see that. That's not really my thing. I like the genre, but it's a very hard genre to budge. I want to see relationships in a pirate world." - (TV Guide, 10/5/23)

"The pirate genre is fun, but I wasn't dying to make a pirate show. Taika wasn't dying to make a pirate show. But the thing that was interesting to me was that Stede finds love, and he finds it with Blackbeard." - (Variety, 10/13/23)

"I think there is something in the show about how piracy is a brutal way of life. It's essentially Mad Max, this world. There's no law, there's just strong and weak." - (Polygon, 10/21/23)

"And it’s also a pirate show, so he’s got to die." - (Vanity Fair, 10/26/23)

"Another thing I love is what I call shaggy stories, stories about people navigating each other. When you plug them into different genres, you get this great engine that comes with it. I'm not particularly dying to write a pirate thing, but I want to write a bunch of characters trying to navigate each other in a pirate thing." - (Vulture, 10/28/23)

"But I'm like you. I'm not a big pirate person. In general, it's a big creaky genre that's hard to budge, but I think the show benefits from we can pull pirate stuff out when we need it. Ultimately, yeah, I want to see these different relationships and perspectives on different relationships. Then it's fun to plug it into an overwrought genre.

[...]

Pirates of the Caribbean, those movies are great. That's not necessarily what I hunger to see, but in that genre, it's great. You're not going to beat that, especially on something that's lower budget. We've seen a lot of this stuff, so it's fun to take it then and don't do any of that stuff." - (Metro Weekly, 11/1/23)

"I think it's more interesting to me that I've never seen a love story like this in this genre, and you dream for that. Really, pirates, what can you do that's different with pirates?

[...]

To me, to tell the story about these two men in this very hetero action genre, falling for each other..." - (Metro Weekly, 11/1/23)

---

...This is the same guy who just ended a season on the British Navy blowing up Nassau for symbolism reasons that I'm pretty sure have nothing to do with the love story. 🤨

#good news - his forest fight is probably not intentionally a weak parody of black sails #because despite being a known tragedy enjoyer i don't think he would watch black sails #our flag means death #ofmd s2 #ofmd piracy #david jenkins #i'll also do just to be safe #ofmd critical #even though this is 90% just pulling his own words together for you to make your own conclusion #ladyluscinia

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lonelycowgirls · 1 year

Text

Leather Bomb

I read Daisy Jones and the Six by Taylor Jenkins Reid last year and much like pretty much everyone else on the planet, I loved it. The concept really inspired me and I've had this piece saved to my laptop for months, so I got home today and thought, "why not post it, we'll see what people think."

This is a little taster for it, I'm not 100% on a name for the series, I just wanted to test the waters. Of course, this is a work of fiction, so it's not tied to real-life events and timelines. It's just a bit of fun.

Enjoy, like and reblog.

Nel xo

Warnings: None

Word count: 1.7k

Interviewer: Veronica Styles… thanks so much for joining us. I think I speak for everyone when I tell you how much of an honour it is for you to agree to a chat with us.

Veronica: The pleasure is all mine. You have my rider… Styles gives me a wink from across the coffee table between us.

Interviewer: I’d love to go back to the beginning. Your story is so fascinatingly illusive it seems almost a crime to not delve into the origins. You’ve had an almost Priscilla Presley level of intrigue present in your life, tell me about how you dealt with that when you first met Harry.

Veronica: Well, it’s quite funny actually… to be here talking with you about this in this format. It definitely makes me feel old. Harry always used to say, ‘I’ll open up about our life when I’m old and grey and all this is a memory.’ She gestures to her white hair, as curly as it was when she was in her 20s. Her husband famously said he would retire from the spotlight at 50 years old. The musician has since recently released his 30th album at the age of 72. It’s your lucky day, darling. I suppose I can see how you would get to that comparison but it feels very strange to connect myself with Priscilla. Elvis is an icon and was a real change of pace for pop culture in the 60s. She pauses and then a cat-like smile slides itself across her face. I suppose Harry was, is, very similar. I know it’s reductive to think of him as simply a husband and a father but that is who he is to me, it’s difficult to see him as anything else. To acknowledge your question, I simply didn’t deal with it. It was very much a head stuck in the sand situation for me. Harry was not an easy person to deal with in those days. He’s mellowed out a lot now, granted he’s in his 70s and, if anything, more stubborn than ever. But you see, Harry was a package deal. To love him, was to love his lifestyle, his job, his fame, his manager, his publicist, and his fanbase. She chuckles fondly, reminiscence present on her features. We used to joke about how we were one step away from having his personal assistant in bed with us… I dealt with that in my own way, and I suppose I have regrets when it comes to that. I was very young… She answers coyly and open-ended; a Styles trademark. I have a feeling I may have touched a slightly exposed nerve with my question.

Interviewer: You were 17 years old when you and Harry met. Can you remember what your first thoughts were during that meeting? People often talk about a shift when they meet significant people.

Veronica: I think I have a slightly tainted point of view on that sentiment. It’s almost… artificial. Because, when we met it did feel very significant because everyone was telling me how significant it was. So, while I absolutely agree that I knew I’d met someone special, it’s because I truly had. I’d met someone that was incredibly famous, successful and who was culturally disruptive. I suppose it wasn’t until later on that I realised it was a different kind of special. A special that was going to have a personal effect on my life.

Interviewer: You couldn’t possibly have known at that time that you would marry this man and have children with him. Did you have any inkling in yourself that you would even meet him again?

Veronica: I hoped that I would. I used to always laugh when reading about people who fall in love with their future partners at the first meeting because I just didn’t think that was possible. Harry and I were electric, we didn’t realise it at the time, but looking back it was truly a match of souls, as lovey-dovey as that sounds. When you’re young, everything feels colossal in terms of importance. Because as bad as it sounds, your world revolves around you. And, I don’t know, hormones are raging and in abundance. So, your reactions to things are super-powered. I thought of nothing else after I’d met Harry. He’s an old man now, but you have to understand the level of sexual magnetism he held, the charisma. He was incredibly wanted and lusted after. He was everything young girls wanted and dreamed of. I was never immune to that, the usual trope is, ‘I liked her because she was different, she didn't fawn over me’. I’m not admitting that I fawned, but I didn't have the cool girl demeanour people often attach to me. I was very aware and receptive to his effect on me as a young woman. So, yeah, I was desperate to meet him again once I had. But more in the way of a teenager wanting to see her crush again; it was natural.

Interviewer: Can you remind us of that first meeting?

Veronica: Oh, gosh. Okay, so Harry’s story is always different, to be honest, I don’t think he even remembers fully because parts of it change every time he tells it. I laugh as she rolls her eyes. All I know is he took a liking to me when we first met, but he didn't make much of an effort to follow up on that. At that point, women were queuing up to offer him anything he wanted, and he didn't have time to pursue someone he didn't know or who wasn’t game for it, if you know what I mean. His time was taken up, let's just say that. So, anyway, we met at an arena; my friend and I had signed up for agency work at a hospitality company and we’d been sent out to Manchester International Arena, and they were hosting the Brits there. So, we’d been put on VIP drinks service, Harry at that time, was not at VIP level, he’d get there eventually as we know. But it was an odd time because he was very famous and beloved within his fanbase, but the general public were taking time to, kind of, catch up to that. But his friend, Ed Sheeran, was enjoying the VIP experience and took Harry as a sort of unofficial plus one, I say unofficial but he was never kicked out so I don’t think anyone had a problem with him being there. I was working the bar and I saw him standing around a tall table, chatting and laughing. But he has this nervous tick, where he scratches the back of his neck and when he had long hair he’d toss it all forward, ruffle it up and then flick his head, kind of, off to the side and smooth it through his fingers. He did that A LOT. And I remember thinking, ‘this guy is gonna get a crick in his neck if he does that anymore tonight’. But he did, and each time he did it he’d glance around him and then try to look interested in the conversation he was supposed to be having. I only learned this was a nervous tick when I noticed his hands were shaking. And I mean, shaking. Anyway, I think I must have watched him do that about seven times before he looked around and caught my eyes. I was very shy so I looked away immediately, I was so embarrassed but I couldn’t help but glance back and I saw him still looking with a smirk on his face. But he also had this quizzical look in his eyes. I always say to him, you looked at me like I was a crossword and you just couldn’t wait to get the last clue to complete it. Very whimsical of me, I know. She laughs again and fiddles with the ends of her hair, shaking her head thoughtfully. She hasn’t made much eye contact with me by this time, choosing to glance just past me. He didn't speak to me until the very end of the VIP service. He came up and asked for my name. I told him and he drew it out long in his accent, but not like my accent, I knew immediately he was from Cheshire. It’s like a posh version of a proper northerner, he hates when I say that, so definitely put that in. I bet you can’t believe how much I remember. It’s sad, isn’t it?

Interviewer: Absolutely not, this is gold. I don’t suppose you remember what he said to you?

Veronica: Not completely. Probably something smug ‘cause he’s a cocky git when he wants to be. She properly laughs. I just know that I felt warmth when he was close. He was very attentive and very easy to talk to… but very hard to actually draw anything significant from, you probably remember that from his interviews. Before he left he decided to down his drink, not very impressively, and he stared at me while he did it. He slammed his glass down on the bar, gave me a nod and then he was gone.

Interviewer: Okay, so you meet Harry at 17. Then most people will be shocked to hear that you didn't meet him again until much later, is that accurate?

Veronica: Yes, a lot of people think that we are somewhat childhood sweethearts. It was nice at the time for people to believe that. Harry doesn’t like to talk about relationships at all in the public sphere, that’s why I’ve never actually spoken much to the media before now. We didn't start actually seeing each other romantically until I was about… 23, I think? So, he was 25, he’d left his band and gone out on his own. Height of fame and success, he was seeing Camille Rowe, yeah… all that good stuff. She seems uneasy again but shakes it off with a smile in my direction. I’d just completed my degree and I was training as a nurse. So… She pauses for a long time, almost a minute, staring and thinking. This is a story that I don’t think anyone has heard before… it’s going to be odd telling it. All I’ll say to preface it is that it is and was a real source of emotional turmoil for everyone involved. I nod and try to ensure her that as a journalist, I personally cannot in good conscience take on a story that she doesn’t want to tell. She reassures me. I’m not getting any younger, it’ll be somewhat... freeing to finally open up about it.

Let me know what you think!

#harry styles fanfic #harry styles fanfiction #harry styles #harry styles writing #harry styles angst #harry styles fic rec #harry styles blurb #harry styles fic #love on tour #harry styles concept #daisy jones and the six

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