#if you don’t get spuffy you don’t truly understand buffy herself | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

raisedbythetv89 · 11 days

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The writers I think mostly completely by accident with the assistance of James charming his way into becoming a main character created the perfect storm to ensure people who love spike would reach absolute peak levels of being completely obsessively deranged about him forever

Season 2:

He’s a punk rock villain with killer cheekbones, enchanting eyes, and an absolutely DEVILISH smile - who’s an incredibly dedicated and dangerous fighter who specifically seeks out challenging fights he’s not guaranteed to win (brave and reckless - normally traits seen in heroes) hates everyone except his mentally ill physically sick wife (the statistics of men who leave their wives when they get sick in the US is horrifying like nurses literally have to warn married women who get sick it happens so often) who he’s hopelessly devoted to and unbelievably soft with and always listens to her while also exuding a psychotic amount of sex appeal and is just F U N he loves being a vampire and he loves fighting and it makes it so much fun for the audience. While still showing how much he respects and admires his enemy for her skill, strength, resourcefulness, and intelligence - NEVER underestimating her just because she’s a tiny blonde girl - and instead of destroying the world for love he SAVES the world for love - a villain doing good to get the love of his life back who essentially dumped him for her ex????????? D E V O T E D and shockingly extremely trustworthy??? And has amazing chemistry with our heroine and is there for a pivotal moment in her life and is the only one there for her when she has no one else????? *enemies to lovers girlies ENTER THE CHAT*

Season 3:

He shows he fucking MEANS IT when he says Dru is the love of his life when he shows up in Sunnydale because he blames Angel not Buffy or Drusilla but the man actually responsible for all their problems and he is the most pathetic mess we’ve ever SEEN!!!! He’s crying and drunk all the time and he’s so sad he goes to Buffy’s mom TO TALK 💀😭 our pathetic sensitive little self admitted lover boy who KNOWS he’s love’s bitch and he won’t be pretending he’s anything otherwise who shows how clearly he sees and understands other people and the depths of his emotional intelligence so much so Buffy herself admits she can’t fool Spike she can fool her friends BUT NOT SPIKE OR HERSELF EXCUSE ME MA’AM WHAT???????

AND Spike doesn’t just uselessly MOPE forever he gets some perspective and is like I know what I’m gonna do to her back and I’m gonna go do that now! 😁👍🏻 showing he never stays down for long and is always gonna get back up to keep fighting for his love while BOTH he and Buffy still honor the truce even though he’s broken it by coming back??? While Buffy’s all “I violently dislike you” YEAH OK GIRL WHATEVER YOU SAY *enemies to lovers girlies chomping at the bit intensifies*

Season 4:

CLEARLY heartbroken about Drusilla (DEVOTED!!!) but it’s turned into anger and resentment directed at Harmony who how bizarre looks nothing like Drusilla but A LOT like Buffy…… hmmmmmmmmmmmmm HOW INTERESTING *enemies to lovers girlies are vibrating with anticipation that turns into a full blown combustion when something blue happens*

Spike doesn’t pretend to love Harmony in order to get what he wants from her (shown in direct contrast to Parker) he’s ironically very honest despite being a villain - he’s showing he’s STILL loyal to Drusilla in ONLY loving her even after she’s dumped him... again!

We see Spike treat Buffy the EXACT same way he treated Drusilla during something blue reaffirming THIS IS HOW THIS MAN LOVES WHEN HE LOVES YOU. He’s extremely affectionate, helpful, protective, caring - D E V O T E D - and is truly just the most certified lover boy we’ve ever fucking seen

Season 5:

SURPRISE HE’S SECRETLY A LOVESICK MAMA’S BOY POET AT HEART UNDERNEATH THE BAD BOY PERSONA AND A PROTECTIVE BIG BROTHER AND NOW BUFFY AND HER FAMILY’S MOST LOYAL DEFENDER AND IS WILLING TO DIE NOT JUST FOR BUFFY BUT FOR ALL THE SUMMERS WOMEN AND HE KNOWS AND SEES BUFFY SO DEEPLY AND INTIMATELY AND CAN HOLD SPACE FOR HER PAIN LIKE NO ON ELSE CAN AND SHOWS THE DEVOTION THAT ONCE BELONGED TO DRUSILLA NOW BELONGS TO BUFFY AND IT IS GOING NOWHERE EVEN WHEN SHE DIES AND WE'VE SEEN IN HIM CRY BEFORE BUT NEVER HAVE WE SEEN HIM BREAK DOWN LIKE HE DOES AT THE SIGHT OF BUFFY'S BODY!!!!!!!!!!!

*all of us screaming, crying, throwing up, climbing the walls and generally just losing our minds*

Season 6:

No soul, his love is so great for Buffy as is his loyalty and devotion to her, he now helps all of his dead love’s friends fight evil and is raising her sister and dreams of saving her every night for 148 nights 🤚🏻😭 don’t even fucking talk to me I can’t take it

Forgive the absolute 180 in tone change here:

Dick game is FIRE - his touch is the only thing that makes Buffy feel alive AND SHE WAS IN HEAVEN BRO SHE KNOWS WHAT IT FEELS LIKE TO BE IN HEAVEN AND SPIKE IS THE ONLY THING KEEPING HER GOING like damn girl yes YOU FUCK THAT HOUSE DOWN!!! Also he is now just naked 50% of the time just to drive us all even FURTHER out of our minds and somehow has just gotten even hotter as the seasons have gone on like this is what’s been hiding under the leather jacket all this time! Enjoy!

And THE MOST unintended consequence of jw’s vindictive writing:

SPITE

He clearly didn’t want us to love Spike and tried to manipulate us into hating him in such a blatant and clumsy ooc attempt all that did was weed out the weakest amongst the Spuffy/Spike fans until all that remained were us:

The most devoted and stubborn fans who REFUSED to have the thing they loved ruined or taken away from us and were smart enough to see through his bullshit manipulation attempt in the first place.

Genuinely they created the equivalent of supersoilder strength level fans with this absolutely lethal combination of events 💀

AND THEN as if all that wasn't enough he goes and gets his soul on purpose for Buffy so he can be the man she deserves and she can love him without hating herself for loving him despite the immense pain it will cause him which is the most selfless thing we have ever seen anyone do for Buffy only to be topped when he sacrifices himself to destroy the hellmouth, save the world and free her from Sunnydale!!! Plus ya know once he gets the soul even though he did it for her he never tries to use that as leverage to get anything from her like he truly expects nothing from her at all but still wants to help her and James delivers the most devastating performances we've ever fucking seen, finally tells her friends off which has needed to happen for 5 seasons, the "you're the one speech" him being a dad to all the potentials with Buffy giving us supernatural parent core who made it through their rough patch with their first kid in season 6 with Dawn and now are just the beautiful team with their found family and Buffy finally has someone who can truly carry her burdens with her and just all the tenderness and devotion they both deserve after so many years of pain and fighting. Basically giving the audience the message that even if you have a metric ton of pain and trauma there are people out there who see you and understand you and there is a chance for you to heal both together and separately to build your own version of a more normal and stable life. It's a message of such hope and I personally know several people, including myself who watched what Spike and Buffy have and it inspired us to look at the relationships we were in and realize we deserved SO MUCH MORE than what we were getting and in my case it turned out I was being emotionally abused and manipulated that entire time!! Much like Buffy was by both Riley and Angel. So it isn't an exaggeration to say Spuffy saved my life in a lot of ways both in being there for me at such a dark time and helping me draw a map of how to get out. Not to mention loving them in fandom spaces has helped me connect with so many people just like me who share very similar experiences and have helped me feel so much less alone and has helped me heal in so many ways 🖤

Spuffies get "hOw cAn yOu liKe sPiKe aFtEr wHaT hE dId" all the fucking time and truly the better question is how can you NOT like Spike???? HAVE YOU BEEN PAYING ATTENTION AT ALL??? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT GOOD RELATIONSHIPS NEED TO WORK?? BECAUSE AT THEIR CORE SPUFFY HAS THEM ALL!

It's jw writing so NOTHING will escape his toxic bullshit but Spike - because he was hated by jw for so long - so much of the time when he tried to make Spike less popular he just kept making him better and more complex and more and more targeted to the female gaze which is exactly why he snapped and made the choices he literally forced everyone else to go along with despite their protests with that scene to make it the most traumatizing scene in all of Buffy history not just for the audience but for the actors as well because yes it is incredibly horrific and upsetting to watch (which is why I skip it on rewatches) but I still am able to see if for what it is which is a narcissist lashing out at people he hates because he hasn't been able to control them and too bad for him I refuse to be manipulated by his bullshit so it failed completely and made so many of us that much more stubbornly protective of Spike and his and Buffy's relationship not just from other fans but from the creator himself 🙃🖕🏻like he basically just trauma bonded us to Spike and Buffy which has led to the creation of one of the most devoted, loyal, intelligent fanbases who is absolutely unhinged (affectionate) with their love of this character and his relationship which is why we are all still creating and writing about this character 25 year later and show absolutely zero signs of slowing down or stopping 💀

#spuffy #spike btvs #meta #btvs meta #spike and buffy meta #spike btvs meta #spuffy meta #also every spuffy I know shares so much life experiences and personality traits with buffy herself like we are often making choices #and judgements about the narrative from the perspective of buffy herself & we’re all picking spike #so many people who pick other love interests truly so often rarely see buffy for who she is either #if you don’t get spuffy you don’t truly understand buffy herself

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linkspooky · 3 years

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This is kinda random, but what is your top 10 favorite otps?

Sure.

#1 of All Time SPUFFY

Spuffy, it wrote the book on both beauty and the beast archetypes, and enemies to lovers. For me the most important thing in a ship is the character development it brings about. Spike's redemption doesn't work without Buffy, because it's meeting the one person who expects better than him and won't put up with his selfish crap, that forces his character arc. Buffy's development is also nothing without Spike, it's meeting Spike that makes Buffy confront her dark side, and realize that being a good person isn't something you are, but something you work towards for the sake of your loved ones. The ideal ship should inspire this permanent character development and chane (Unless it ends tragically), they should be an inseperable part of each other's character arcs.

#2 Kumagawa / Ajimu

This is what I was talking about when I said "unless it ends tragically". Sometimes you ship two people who should never end up together, because they probably won't accept their differences. However, even in a failed relationship, two people can be important to each other. There's not really a hapyp ending for Ajimu and Kumagawa, despite their similiarities when they're together they just seem to make each other worse. In Medaka Box they are the anti-Zenkichi and Medaka. However, for Ajimu Kumagawa represents her only human connection, and for Kumagawa Ajimu represents the first person to be "good" to him even though their relationship soured at one point. Therefore I find the ship interesting because despite the fact that they are permanently separated they are still an incredibly important part of each other's identities and who they are now.

# 3 Matsuda / Junko

Basically for the same reason as what I said above. There is no universe where Junko and Matsuda end up in a happy relationship, as long as Junko is still Junko. However, Matsuda and DanganRonpa Zero as a whole add so much to Junko as a character. As long as Matsuda exists, Junko's more than just a black hole that only cares about despair, and I think together the side materials like IF and Zero show that Junko actually is capable of caring for people outside of her natural tendency to want to throw everything into despair, however, humanizing Junko in this manner doesn't actually make her a better person. She can have feelings like romantic, and familial love, and she still chooses to destroy those things and the people in her life. It just adds so much to Junko as a character, which is what I like ships as, an extension of characterization through character interaction.

#5 UIHAI

I love Ui and Hairu because it's like a broken fairy tale. It was a love that could have saved Hairu, but it didn't, because for Ui he always realized his feelings too late to save anyone. Hairu was obsessively chasing after Arima for the smallest amount of approval, when Ui was right there, and already in love with her. They seem like the perfect couple that could never get together, because Hairu is too fixated on Arima, and Ui is too fixated on his job. They are perfectly suited to giving each other what they wanted, and even in lots of side materials and sketches they seem like a pair, or Ui's feelings for Hairu come across as pretty clear but it never came to be in canon.

#6 ZACK / AERITH

Once again for the same reasons as above, it seems like a fairy tale romance of a knight, and a girl he wants to protect, but it fails completely to live up to that story. Zack and Aerith is a tragic story of first love for both of them, and it's also really formative for who Aerith is now as a character. Zack tried to be there for her, and he tried to be a hero to Aerith, only to very consistently not be there for her, and then disappear from her life all together. Much later on, Aerith is incredibly isilated, unable to fall in love with the real cloud without projecting Zack onto him. It's a relationship where in a better world they could have been there for each other, but also the failure of the relationship develops them as much as characters as them getting together might have. Zack and Aerith are one of those relationships that seems ideal on the surface but they are very different people with different wants, Zack wants to be a hero, Aerith just wants to be a person first.

#7 LINK / MIDNA

The best zelda ship period. Once again the most important part of a ship interaction is the change that both characters inspire in each other. Midna begins not caring about Link at all, never referring to him by name, only seeing him as an object, an old legend, a hero to be used instead of a person. Midna's a manipulative freak, and Link breaks through to her because he actually isn't interested in being the hero of legend, he just wants to save the people closest to him at the village because he feels indebted to them, and Midna inevitably becomes one of those people. Link and Midna's partneship makes the game, because it's Midna who pushes him and makes him into a hero, but it's Link through his unfledging acceptance of her who inspires her to be a person once more, and not just the twilight priness.

#8 Morrigan / Warden from DRAGON AGE ORIGINS

This and Spuffy are like the only two on this list who actually end up together, so let me just have this. Once again my favorite aspect of a ship is the transformation the relationship brings baout in a character. The warden is a non-character, but for Morrigan herself, her relationship with the warden is what allows her to escape an abusive household, and beyond that decide not to repeat the cycle of abuse with her new family. What made this ship an all time fave was in witch hunt when the Warden gets to ask her what she wants, and she's just completely confused. Even with her mother dead, Morrigan is still a tool of her mother's ambitions, it's still all about her mother wants. It's her love with the warden, either through friendship or romance that awakens Morrigan to the fact she's allowed to exist as a person with wants and needs outside of what her mother wants her to be.

#9 Kaine / Nier

It's the Most Humanizing Ship Ever Between Two Mass Murderers. As a story, I think Nier is about finding the life, and love, in a story that is ultimately, fatally doomed. Nier only worse and worse as the game goes on but that doesn't mean there was never any love in his life. For every bad thing Nier does, he was not bad to every single person, specifically Kaine, it was Nier's love and belief in her that allows the wounds in her heart to start to heal. As Nier and Nier gets worse, Kaine's own shadow self says, that her feelings in her heart are no longer hatred, or even revenge, there's just a pure white light of love left. In a game where everything only rots, Kaine has healed to the point where she can love again when she never thought it was possible. It's why I like ending D the best, because it's Nier knowing he can never escape his own sins, but he can use his last action to heal Kaine fully all the way and allow her to live on a few more years.

#10 SATOSUGU

Once again, there's no universe where they end up together, and yet still on opposite sides of a conflict they remain each other's closest friends. The most important thing about a ship is the character development it leads to and Gojo would not be who he is today without Suguru. I generally get the sense that Gojo's idea of a good person isn't himself, but rather who Geto used to be before he broke. Gojo actually relied on on Geto for a lot more than he realized, considering it was the one connection he had that seemed to humanize him. Geto provided the chosen one who can do literally anything in the world with his powers, support and guidance. He was the jade, and the foundation of their two person friendship, and then the jade broke.

Gojo and Geto's broken relationship is not only the most emotional thing in the series to me, it's also an incredible part of who they are ten years after the fact. Gojo straight up didn't bother to make friends for ten years later after the fact even though he could have, Geto still told his daughters that Gojo and him were best friends, they just had a fight. He couldn't comperehend in Volume Zero that Gojo would still regard him as a friend after everything that they had done.

It's like one of those "Can't live with them, can't live without them" pairs. They want to be each other's one and only but it just won't work because they don't understand each other, and neither of them is willing to compromise. They are also each other's perfect yin / yang complement. Gojo is the opposite of Geto, and still carries a part of Geto within him, and Geto even after becoming the enemy of the sorcery world while Gojo is the savior, still carries that friendship with Gojo inside of him as well. While their relationship is a failed one, it's also a past I hope that the next generation Megumi and Itadori both learn from, even if Geto never truly comes back.

#spooky speaks #top ten ships #shipping #askspookies

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willowrosenboob · 3 years

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Spuffy anon, I feel you so much on that. I can't exactly say that their season 6 journey had to transpire like /that/ overall and I will never think that certain scenes should've ever happened out of necessity (even with the "excuse" that the show is dark, idk I just hated the whole execution of it, I believe you know what I'm referring to), but anyway yes while I guess that "Once More With Feeling"'s last moment had to happen sometime between them as well as the aftermath of Spike questioning Buffy's feelings, pre-Smash spuffy never not gets me because there's a certain sort of disarm and tenderness between them. I really loved the ongoing theme that Buffy hangs out with Spike because she doesn't have to pretend to be ok and perfectly fine with him, and pre-Smash it wasn't framed as this "unspeakable" thing that was obviously bad for her, it was her just enjoying his company and likewise for him. Also as you mentioned, the melancholy, the yearning, all of it just made it feel so strangely honest between them? They've known each other for who they were and are supposed to be for a longer time now so you could say that even before Smash, they both knew 'the best and worst' of each other. I don't know what your opinion on season 7 Spuffy is, I can completely understand it if you're not into it after the season 6 events, but some scenes throughout that season stand out a lot for me for the similar reasons why pre-Smash spuffy is so significant to me.

ugh, so true. it’s just so fascinating that they were able to be so open with each other despite still being mortal enemies, because the roots of both of their suffering is so similar (both having been dead at one point, alienated from people who they used to connect with, both feel like they’re not what they should be). all their scenes convey SO MUCH, from tender uninhibited sadness, to all consuming grief, to awkward connection, to genuine laughter and smiles that they’re both not used to. also SMG and JM are such amazing actors, and their facial expressions and line deliveries are so perfect. obviously it doesn’t last, but it’s just so beautiful that even for a few episodes they had this unlikely connection that was so unlike their relationships with anyone else, and that functioned as one of the few bright spots in a really depressing season. they truly understand each other in a way that no one else does.

i think you’d be surprised to know that overall s6 spuffy is my favourite season for them in the entire show. i’ve always viewed the thesis of their s6 relationship as being that relationships built on misery aren’t meant to last. them falling into toxicity made a lot of sense sense for their characters to me (and thematically too), even if a lot of what went down between them, mainly seeing red, wasn’t handled as carefully as i would’ve hoped. and I always felt like spike played a really interesting role in exploring buffy’s psyche. I think in the second half of the season spike represents the dark unrestrained half of buffy that’s telling her to abandon the values she holds, because sometimes it’s easier to embrace suffering. i love their break up scene because we see buffy finally understanding how their relationship is hurting both of them. it’s remarkable character development.

(sidenote, but i loathe whenever someone has a galaxy brain take that s6 spuffy’s arc was entirely about spike. like did you not see the best depression arc in the history of tv take place???? like yeah sr was mainly about spike, but did you not notice how there were barely any spike centric scenes during their actual relationship??? how buffy projected her feelings about herself onto spike, and we got to see her dealing with her emotions way more than spike did???????? just because character development isn’t linearly positive, it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there, and that it isn’t super fucking good)

i’ve said in the past that season 7 is my least favourite season for them, and while that still kinda holds up (mainly cause i think it’s not written particularly well, and the events of sr are brushed off way too easily), s7 actually hit different for me on my last rewatch. after s6 it’s so nice to see them lifting each other up instead of bringing each other down. we get to see them come to understand why their relationship ended so badly in s6. they come to peace with who they are, and they come out stronger because of it. also, i feel like while spike does understand buffy’s mental state extremely well in early s6, the whole lack of soul thing keeps him from seeing her as she sees herself. he’s finally able to appreciate her as a hero in s7 (compare how he consoles buffy in touched with how he tries to console her in dead things). morality is a big part of buffy’s character, and even if i don’t always like it, i think spike getting a soul was 100% necessary to getting them together.

so yeah, early s6 spuffy is absolutely god tier. no one does yearning like they do.

#btvs #spuffy #answers #Anonymous

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kittenshift-17 · 4 years

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that whole is ‘i love you’ ‘you don’t but thanks for saying it anyway’ UGH I HATED THAT. GOD it was just so patronizing! like thx for sacrificing urself! could’ve given this to my ex but i chose you! bc ur in love with me and will do anything for me! like that was just a slap in the face. she clearly never saw him as an equal even with a soul. with angel she would’ve given him a million chances even if he killed more people she loved but spike was just a punching bag. (4/multi)

Actually, for my own thinking (which I confess has been wildly influenced by the amount of Spuffy fanfic I’ve devoured) I do think Buffy meant it when she said she loved him. I think that SMG did a really bad job delivering that line, but I do think she loved him. Maybe not like we would hope, but she realised when she was about to lose him that she loved him and liked having him in her life. We see that in the way she says “I’m not ready for your to not be here” and we see it depicted through the eyes of the others, like Giles, “There’s a connection. He relies on you. You rely on him.”

There’s no denying that they do feel something for each other. I think it’s just that Buffy spent so long fighting it - so long being determined to hate him, and to want nothing to do with him even when she lusted after him, that even then - even when he’s about to die after proving once and for all that he IS the good guy, despite a lifetime as the Big Bad - it’s hard for Buffy to accept, and harder for her to admit. The human animal is conditioned to believe that we’re never wrong, and to feel shame and anger when it’s proved that we are, in fact, incorrect about something. Buffy is stubborn and prideful and self-righteous and to have been so wrong about Spike, and to have made him suffer for it - to have made herself suffer for it by resisting him when she could’ve been loving him - had to be a bitter pill to swallow.

Spike’s evil. There is no doubt about that. He’s without conscience for the majority of the series, and he proves time and again that he’s in it for himself first, and everyone else as an afterthought. Even when he admits that’s he’s a Grey Hat, or even part of the Scooby Gang, he is begrudging and childish and immature about it. You spend a century being evil and ruthless and a killer, having been trained in it from when he first rose at Angel’s knee, and it’s a hard habit to break. He plays Kitten Poker, don’t forget. He eats kittens. He eats babies and little children. When he first comes to Sunnydale, he kills a man who he claims is too old, because he prefers lamb to mutton. He’s not going to eat him. He just kills him for kicks. Like... Spike is a bad guy. He’s a Big Bad and he’s proud of it because in the world he’s come to know, that’s the thing to be. The demonic underworld is where the biggest and baddest are the best off and the most popular and Spike covets that and acts in whatever way necessary to be that and maintain that for a long time. He pitted his will against Buffy. Stalked her. Studied her. Learned everything he could about her in an effort to kill her - and he didn’t have any good reason for wanting to kill her, other than to improve his reputation as the Slayer of Slaryers and an extra oomph for his Big Bad image. He didn’t need her blood. He didn’t need her soul. He didn’t need to kill her. He just wanted to. Okay, yes, so did Angel, but at least with Angel it was because he claimed she made him feel human and without his soul, being/feeling human is a despicable weakness. Humans today kill people for that very reason. Spike just wanted to kill her because he thought it would be fun, and because he wanted the thrill of the fight and the rush of tasting her blood.

So, yeah. I do understand Buffy being a bitch to him all that time, and I understand Buffy hating herself and beating herself up for wanting him even despite knowing what a bad guy he was, had been, is, and could return to being. Don’t forget that when Spike came back to Sunnydale and got chipped in the first place, he came back with the Gem of Amara, intending to kill Buffy. He still tried to kill her and to hurt her friends several times even after he was chipped. He wasn’t all sunshine and puppies. That said, neither was Buffy, and the older and more mature she gets, the more we see of that.

The show did a fabulous job of depicting the hard knocks that come amid the transititon from idealistic teenager into cynnical young adult and I commend all of the writers for the way they portrayed that. Buffy grows steadily more bitter with age, not just after being ripped out of heaven, but right from the beginning. We see the idealism and hope of first love, and the crushing pain when it’s dashed. We see the fear and despair of learning someone we love has betrayed us and wants to hurt us. We see the betrayal of a father figure turning on us for the sake of doing his job, and the misjudgements our parents make. We see the transition from high school into the real world, and the way it can warp and twist friendships we’d relied so heavily upon into something that becomes a chore. We see the way friendships change as we grow apart, and the way the choices our friends make impact not just their lives, but ours too. We see the way it feels to want someone you know is bad for you; someone who is bad, period. We see the trials of losing a parent, and takcling motherhood, and the tribulations of needing to find work to have money, and the wretched disappointment when the good things we were all promised don’t pan out that way. Watching those scenes as an adult, having lived a number of them myself, those things are bang on, man.

There are definitely things about the show that I hate; that “I love you” “No you don’t, but thanks for saying it” scene among them, but there is so much richness there, that how can you not love it? Even in that scene, those words from Spike scream so much. They show that he’s been pushed away one too many times. That he doesn’t trust easily anymore, not even himself, and especially not Buffy. I truly think in those moments, when Buffy says she loves him, she can barely beleive it herself, and she doesn’t want to say it at all, but she says it anyway because she knows this is her last chance to do so - her only chance to do so - and we also see how Spike’s been bitten once too often to beleive her. He wanted so long for her to love him, and she spurned him every time. Never said it. Refused to feel it, even, perhaps, when she did feel it just the same way she felt lust for him. He doesn’t believe her because he’s spent a lifetime, it seems, listening to her tell him what a monster he is and how she could never love something like him. He refuses the words because he thinks she’s only saying them out of pity. And in a way, she kind of is. Were he not about to save the world by sacrificing himself, she likely never would’ve fully, truly beleived it herself that she loved him, and even if she did, she would never say it. She only says it because he is dying, and so he thinks she is only saying it to make him happy in his final moments. But there’s too much pain and too much bad blood and bad feelings and hurt and anger and betrayal there for it to feel like more than a platitiude to Spike.

As a fangirl, as a viewer, a reader and a writer, the whole scene is a kick in the gut and not the HEA we all so desperately wanted for the two of them. But as an adult, as a person with understanding of everything Joss was trying to portray - everything that is so much bigger than fanciful romance - I do completely understand the purpose and maybe even the necessity of that scene playing out exactly as it was written. No matter how painful and ugly and disappointing. That’s life, after all....

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sophygurl · 5 years

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Hi! I was just browsing through my activity and noticed that after I responded to your ask about ships a while back, you reblogged and shared your thoughts about Spuffy. I'm so glad you were able to read my opinions and understand them, even if you didn't agree with them. I just wanted to stop by and ask what your thoughts and feelings are on Spuffy? I'd love to hear your perspective :)

Oh wooooow, you have no idea how happy you just made me! I feel like I talk about spuffy quite a lot but without ever really saying much of anything because inside of me it’s just a lot of (!!!!!>?>>?!!?!>fjhghhf?!?!?!?!!?) YKWM? Like feels central exploding all over the place and it’s really difficult for me to put into coherent words.

But I’ve also been wanting and meaning to write some serious spuffy meta and kinda dissect what it all means to me personally, as a survivor, for some time now. And like. Especially with all of this purity culture stuff coming to a head, it feels like a good time to take the time to try and do it because, yea, shit not only doesn’t have to be pure to be helpful - but sometimes the darker stuff IS the Most helpful.

And I really did appreciate your perspective about the relationship because you talked about the ways in which it did and didn’t work for you without ever shaming anyone for the way it does work for them? And I wish we could all do that more.

So thank you so much for sending me this ask, and asking for my perspective because sometimes all it takes for me to finally settle down and write something I wanna write anyways is to be asked by someone else to do it!

This is absolutely gonna get long so have a read more cut.

For context, let me start by saying that I didn’t watch Buffy when it first aired - it was, mmm, I wanna say about 10-11 years ago when I decided to try it out. And while I was watching it, I was also in the midst of doing some heavy duty therapy work on my PTSD stemming from childhood sexual abuse and then some further traumas in my young adulthood that happened because of poor processing of said abuse. I’m not gonna get into details about my personal traumas except for some specific ways in which they relate to the lens in which I watched and processed the relationship between Buffy and Spike. BUT, due to that lens, there very well may be triggery content in this post.

My experience watching Buffy, in general, started out with me being really unsure what the draw was in season 1 and then slowly getting more involved in the characters and relationships and mythos as the series developed into a more mature and nuanced show. I was really hooked by season five, and season six is my favorite, with seven a close second.

I liked Buffy, the character, okay in the beginning but it wasn’t until she started really going through and processing her traumas that I started to personally connect to her. So season six was like, my jam. She was raw and stripped down to the nerve, and cycling between like outright rage to pure numbness and just lashing out trying desperately to feel and to make sense of her experiences and I was like - yea, Buffy, same, Same. And then in season seven she starts really contextualizing her trauma and using the pain of it to give herself more power and then sharing that power with others and it was just … fuck, I can’t even begin to tell you what that meant to me. In that last episode, I felt her handing me back my OWN power - like I FELT it - it really … anyway. We’ll get there.

And then there was Spike, who I loved right away. I love me some snarky villains. I love me the bad boy who has hidden depths inside of him. I love the villain who doesn’t … really fit the mold of the other villains in-verse. I love the villain who doesn’t mind working with the heroes if it fits his agenda. Basically, Spike was fictional catnip for me right out of the gate.

I adored Spike and Drusilla together for a lot of reasons, but for Spike to develop beyond just Big Bad, he had to fall out of her orbit, so I was okay with that ending.

On the other hand, I was never into Buffy and Angel. Watching the series as an adult, it just felt creepy to me how this old vampire basically stalked a very innocent-seeming to me teen Buffy. Their romance reminded me of girls I knew who fell for older guys when I was in high school where the older guy seemed sort of dangerous and mysterious and I get the draw from Her perspective - but not necessarily his? I don’t know, I just personally never really bought them being truly in love - they were sort of practice relationships for one another? Her as a young teenager, and him as someone just starting to re-learn humanity. I never Disliked them together… I just never shipped it. The idea of them being one another’s One True Love’s was just sorta meh to me.

So when Spike started having his crush on Buffy? I was so ready for that. Because it was so silly at first, right? It was not serious. It was creepy and weird and wrong. But in a way that appealed to me.

How do I explain? I guess, it had to do with all of the reasons that Spike was Not Like All The Other Villains/Vampires. Angel was always different but ONLY because he was cursed with a soul. It was a thing done TO him and when he reverted back to Angelus he was literally a whole different person and did not have any desire to turn back into Angel. When he was Angel, he was all brooding and guilt-ridden and terrified of his other self.

But Spike was always different just because he was different. This didn’t mean he had a soul or a capacity for love or the ability to be a Good Guy. It just meant he worked a little differently than the other vampires. I truly think he loved and was devoted to Dru. I don’t think she was capable of returning that love in the same way.

So, anyway, Spike is back and he’s split with Dru because Dru could just … tell … something was off and Spike was wanting to deny that but then suddenly - crush! Not love, not attraction, not lust, not desire - a freaking schoolboy crush.

But of course it was creepy because hello - soulless vampire who has never had a healthy relationship of any kind in his LIFE. But he starts doing these odd things, like wanting to comfort Buffy when he sees that she’s upset and being willing to take care of Dawn when no one else was available and HE doesn’t get it either, but somehow he’s becoming a slightly more decent person because of this weirdass crush?

IDK, that’s appealing.

And let me clarify. It’s not appealing to me because I see myself in the Good Girl who can make a Bad Boy into a better person. That is never what’s appealed to be about these types of relationships.

In large part because of my abuse, I see different layers of myself in each character.

I went through a large portion of my life pretending very hard to be a Good Girl and then when I finally came out of denial about the abuse realized that was because inside I felt like a very Bad Girl and then as I pursued more recovery realized it’s all a lot more complex than that but really I’ve been more of a Decent Person who felt like a Bad Person trying really hard to be a Good Person. I hope that makes sense.

But the point is. I see myself in both the Good and the Bad characters in these sorts of push-pull love-hate dynamic relationships.

And what I love about spuffy, specifically, is that they’re both … both. Eventually. I’m getting ahead of myself. But yes, Spike suddenly wanting to be decent here and there because of his weird developing feelings for Buffy appealed to me - and especially to part of me that feels Bad. I’m Spike in this scenario, not Buffy.

But I’m also Buffy, being really grossed by this Bad Person’s interest in me. When Buffy throws her money at Spike and says he’s not good enough for her - that’s me hating myself and saying I’m not good enough. But it’s also, strangely, me taking a stand and saying I’m worth better than the ways in which I was treated.

Gods, this whole abuse recovery dichotomy can be so confusing to explain because like. I never abused anyone. But the ugliness I feel inside of myself has to do with what happened to me, and also with what I know people in my family have done to others. So there’s this idea of Badness there. And the idea of there being forgiveness and redemption for that Badness is very very appealing.

And at the same time? There’s this beauty inside of myself that I always thought I was faking but that it turns out - is fucking real and precious and important. And standing up for that broken beautiful part of myself and saying no to being used and abused again is so powerful.

So in that scene? I’m the ugliness in Spike being hated by Buffy but I’m ALSO the powerful beauty in Buffy standing up for herself.

You can maybe see how this all gets even more tangled up the further we go, yea?

So Spike gets chipped and becomes a part of the team - all the while simultaneously reminding them that he’s still a Bad Guy AND slowly becoming a slightly better person because of his interactions with them and his feelings for Buffy. He’s not even close to redeemed, okay, he’s still a villain. He’s just a more and more intriguing villain, an anti-villain, even, eventually.

And then season six. And Buffy comes back. And she’s broken and raw and needing something that her friends cannot give her. She is needing to connect to the darkness inside of herself, and who is waiting there for her?

And so yea, okay, hatesex is very appealing to me just inandofitself. It’s like double the passion and it’s animalistic and there’s something so sexy and gratifying about two people just using one another with equal force, yk?

And Spike and Buffy are physically matched perfectly. She can take all her anger and pain and rage out on him without permanently damaging him. And she’s NEVER been able to let loose like that before. Her first time with Angel was a more tender and sweet moment and then - welp - turns out they can’t do the do. And otherwise she’s been with humans who she’s had to hold back with. There was zero holding back with Spike.

So from Buffy’s perspective, there’s this amazing relief and release and yea, even, empowerment in being able to just freely let herself go in this way.

From Spike’s point of view, it was about more. And here is where I feel for him because, at this point he’s still not really capable of love in the way we talk about it as being something from a soul. He’s chipped but not soul’d. He has strong feelings for Buffy that no vampire (besides cursed-soul Angel) should be able to have. But it’s not … quite … love. It’s passion and it’s care and it’s wanting and it’s even becoming something like friendship. But it’s not love, much as he thinks it is.

But he does Think it is. And he’s thinking it’s the same for her, but she just can’t admit it, yet. The hatesex to him … is just … sex. And he fully believes he’s winning her over. And so her constant rejection of him as a fully human person with a soul and feelings guts him - even as he’s still trying to convince himself that he does love her and she does somehow secretly love him back.

The fact that she keeps using him physically, and also keeps coming to him for emotional support, supports this belief and keeps him from understanding the reality of the situation.

Now, I think I mentioned than when I was watching this for the first time I was in heavy duty therapy mode yea? Well, there was another even heavier duty therapy mode a good tenish years prior when I had first admitted to the abuse I experienced and got really good and fucked up and made some bad personal decisions and here is where some of that comes to play because I saw myself in this scenario - again from both sides.

I am Buffy learning to enjoy the pleasures of my body and sexuality for the first time but also making really bad decisions about who to share that with because I am still so new to processing my trauma.

I am also Spike - longing for something more and better and being told (by myself) that I was not good enough, that I was bad, that I was not a full human person who deserved good things or good relationships.

(There, there, pastme - it does get better)

Back to first-time-Buffy-watching me. And I am enjoying the HECK out of the spuffy sex and I am feeling for poor pining Spike and feeling for Buffy who is hating herself for what she’s doing and also shipping them like WHOA because there is so much about their dynamic that is just sexy and fun and FEELS everywhere.

But I knew Seeing Red was coming, because I did have a few things spoiled for me just by existing in the world for years without having watched the show yet myself. I really didn’t wanna watch it, or the rest of season six. So I got into a spiral of just watching the earlier parts of the season over and over - specifically the musical and through the 3 episodes of heavy spuffy sex. I did a LOT of processing during this time and then eventually girded myself to watch what I knew was coming.

And Seeing Red is awful. Traumatic. Triggering. Terrible. But also, like, gods, did it make sense for where these two characters were at this point in time? I didn’t feel like it was contrived or somehow put in just for the heck of it. It made sense in the narrative. Spike legitimately just did not get it. He did not realize he was attempting rape until … finally … he did.

And the horror of that, the horror of realizing that he almost did that to the ONE person in the world that he has ever cared that much about? Broke him. Sent him off on a magical quest to get his fucking soul back.

No one did that. Even Angel was Cursed with his soul, right? No vampire ever wanted to get their soul back - even had enough non-ensouled feelings to have the ability to want such a thing. Not to mention going through the trials of actually getting it back.

Season seven Spike is such a different beast. He’s messed up from the soul-thing, but I honestly believe Most of his messed-up-ness came from what The First was doing to/through him. Because … gods, okay.

When Spike goes through the flashbacks and recognizes what his trigger is? (Like the show legit uses PTSD terminology here - it was a Trigger) He processes his Own old traumas and he is able to tell Robin basically - fuck it, I know who I am. I know I did terrible things without my soul, but I can’t and won’t beat myself up for that (for example the way Angel does) because it wasn’t entirely my fault and all I can control now is who I am now and what I do now.

Now THAT spoke to me as a trauma survivor. Stop hanging on to all of this so-called badness inside, forgive yourself, and move on. WOW. Fucking powerful.

And what he DOES choose to do is to be there for Buffy in any way she will allow him to.

Ensouled Spike is no longer creeping around her or making weird assumptions about her or trying to Get something From her. Ensouled Spike defends her when others attack. Ensouled Spike holds her all night when she needs it and gives her pep talks and asks what he can do to help and accepts when he can’t help and just stands there quietly willing to do battle With her.

I just … phew… that makes me emotional.

Because, again, I look back at some of those dysfunctional relationships I got into in my early 20′s and like. None of those fuckers would have done anything like that.

And my attraction to the Fictional Bad Boy with a Hidden Heart of Gold was never about expecting any of them to. I was with them, unconsciously or even some cases consciously, on purpose to punish myself or to work out past traumas with or just to Feel Something. I never expected or even necessarily wanted deep love from them.

So, here’s the thing. None of those fuckers would have done anything like that for me. Nor I them.

So Spike slowly gaining his redemption through his willingness to become a better person because of his love of Buffy? Fucking spoke to me.

And Buffy slowly accepting the darker parts of herself through her willingness to let Spike into her orbit because of her feelings for him? Fucking yes.

And when she hands him the - shit it’s been a long time - that medallion meant for a champion? And he doesn’t think he’s worthy, but she says she knows he is. Fuck!!! That is ME accepting ME, okay? All of myself, the good and the bad, the ugly and the beautiful, the messed up and the slowly healing. All of it.

And when he sacrifices himself in the end??? When that’s how she’s finally able to defeat The First? All that power sharing with all of the other women was *chefkiss* but it also took Spike. Spike who stormed on the scene in season two with snark and a twisted sense of love and no desire to ever be a hero? That Spike!? Sacrificing himself and STILL NOT BELIEVING BUFFY LOVES HIM.

Because by then, let’s be clear, she did. Maybe not the same way he loved her, but she did love him. And he doesn’t believe it, can’t believe himself worthy of that love. But he sacrifices himself ANYway?

THAT Spike? Is no longer asking anything in return. He gives all of himself and won’t even accept her statement of love in return. “No, you don’t. But thanks for saying it anyway.” Just AUGJH?!? You know???

That was me … redeeming me … for me….

So anyway.

I just want to add that AS I WAS WRITING THIS OUT, I got another ask in my inbox stating “People who like problematic or villainous characters are apologist for shitty people and should rethink their life because they’re shitty people.”

And this is the exact WRONG time to come for me like this because I just poured out my entire traumatized abuse surviving soul into the internet to explain why watching a problematic villain evolve and learn to do better helped ME to contextualize and process my fucking trauma. So fuck you. People who write anonymous hate without knowing the full story are being shitty and should rethink their actions because they’re shitting on actual REAL LIFE COMPLEX INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE.

The end.

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whitewolfofwinterfell · 5 years

Note

Ships: Spuffy, Bangel, Xanya, Cole/Phoebe, Piper/Leo, Prue/Andy, Suliet, Skate, Jate, Jacket

Wow, that’s a lot of ships! Thanks so much for sending them in! I actually love writing about this stuff so the more the merrier :) I’ve tried to keep this as short as I could, but due to the number of ships it did get a little long, so I’ll put the rest under the cut.

Some warnings before you read: anti-Spuffy, anti-Xanya, anti-Pleo and anti-Skate (not really, but I do criticise these ships and so it’s better safe than sorry).

Spuffy

It’s perfect timing for me to write about Spuffy because I’ve just recently done a Buffy re-watch, so their relationship is fresh in my mind. When it comes to Buffy and Spike, I’m actually pretty neutral about their relationship. I’m not a hardcore shipper but I’m also not anti Spuffy either. It’s always a relief when there’s two opposing ships (in this case Spuffy and Bangel) and you’re able to enjoy both (although I do prefer Bangel).

Before I get into actually talking about the relationship itself, I want to say that I do think that Buffy and Spike’s relationship was quite forced. It’s clear to me that when Spike was first introduced onto the show there weren’t any plans to make him a main character and put him into a relationship with Buffy. Generally speaking, it doesn’t even make sense that Spike survives until season 7 since Buffy has absolutely no reason to keep him around. He’s a vampire without a soul and Buffy is the Slayer, she kills Spike’s kind every single day without blinking. The only exception to that is Angel because he has a soul, so it doesn’t make sense that Buffy just allows Spike to hang around Sunnydale. It becomes more complicated when he has the chip because technically he can’t harm anyone and he starts to prove useful, but even then it’s hard to understand why Buffy doesn’t kill him. Spike getting his soul at the end of season 6 is also forced, because narratively it makes no sense. Angel is a unique, one-of-a-kind vampire who was cursed with a soul as punishment. No vampire (whether they are in love or not, which is a topic of debate because can soulless vampires even love?) would voluntarily seek out their soul. It’s a heavy burden to bear after centuries as a vampire and I don’t buy that Spike would want to do this. Also, Spike’s entire character is build on this idea of him being a one-of-a-kind soulless vampire that is capable of showing a lot of human emotion and whose behaviours and perceptions change as a result of the chip, so giving him a soul kind of detracts from that. Overall, I feel that Spike getting a soul was only written because Whedon decided he wanted to continue pursuing the Spuffy romance but realised after season 6 that he couldn’t logically do that until Spike had a soul. As a result, the Spuffy relationship doesn’t make sense from a narrative stand-point. Spike was an antagonist that should’ve left the show or been killed off at some point during season 3, but his character was so popular and well-liked that Whedon wanted to find a way to write him in permanently and developing a romance with Buffy was the most feasible way of doing that.

Putting that aside, in seasons 1-4 I enjoy Spuffy’s dynamic and the way they bicker at each other immensely. Buffy and Spike as individual characters have bags of personality and when they come together they’re always entertaining and they draw me in. In season 5 their relationship enters a new phase when Spike develops a crush on Buffy. The thing is with the Spuffy relationship in general is that you have to take it at face value. In my opinion, it is not a “serious” relationship and certainly not feasible as a long-term relationship, because of the nature of it. However, it’s a fascinating ship that explores the complexities of mental health and toxic relationships, and how the two can overlap and feed one another.

Spike’s feelings for Buffy develop out of a dark and twisted obsession whereby he gets off on the fact that Buffy’s his nemesis, that she’s strong and fierce and violent towards him. His obsession for her becomes so strong that he consistently stalks her (which is common amongst vampires, who are naturally predatory creatures) and forces Warren to build him a Buffybot. The Buffybot alone represents everything wrong with their relationship. Spike creates a sex doll that looks exactly like Buffy that will be his slave; that’s so unhealthy and is unacceptable on every level. However, it’s perfectly aligned with Spike’s behaviour and urges as a soulless vampire. I see all this stuff about how Spike with a soul still wasn’t that bad but I think it’s overlooked that he still had naturally dark tendencies and instincts as a vampire. He didn’t seek out Buffy because he wanted a loving, committed relationship with someone who was his equal, he sought her out because he enjoyed the “rough and tumble” and was fascinated with the apparent “darkness” and “death” he saw in Buffy and got a kick out of being the one to push her to that dark place. When their sexual relationship develops, it’s as unhealthy as Spike’s crush has been up until that point, because it evolves out of Buffy’s depression which Spike actively encourages. Instead of supporting Buffy through her depression, he feeds it by telling her she no longer belongs with her friends and that she belongs with him in the “shadows”. It’s a very toxic and unhealthy relationship for both Buffy and Spike. Although Spike doesn’t have a soul, it’s emotionally distressing for him to endure the treatment he gets from Buffy. She actively goes to him and sleeps with him but then discards him and tears him down and refuses to acknowledge him as a human being (which is fair since he’s technically not). It’s very harmful to Buffy who carries the immense guilt and shame of her feelings and how she’s behaving. Plus, as I mentioned above, it feeds her depression and self-destructive behaviour. But like I said, you have to take Spuffy at face value and I can’t criticise the ship for any of this. It’s actually what I like about them. They’re supposed to be dark and twisted, they’re supposed to be bad for each other, they’re supposed to push each other to the deepest darkest corners of what they’re capable of and that’s exactly what they do.

In reality, Spuffy’s relationship is a complex metaphor for the human psyche. Spike is symbolically the monster inside Buffy and when she uses and abuses him she’s punishing herself. Spike is Buffy’s way of self-destructing, of trying to emotionally make sense of the hollowness she feels inside. Spike allows it and revels in it because he’s a creature of darkness and death. What he experiences with Buffy is normal to him as a vampire. He loved Drusilla as truly as a soulless vampire can love, but it was a very dark and twisted love whereby they did terrible things with and to each other and got pleasure and enjoyment out of that. Spike tries to pursue a similar relationship with Buffy, but the problem is that it doesn’t work because Buffy is human. She’s not physically, emotionally or mentally capable of engaging in the type of relationship or behaviours Spike expects or enjoys without it having a profound negative impact on her.

It’s probably an unpopular opinion coming from a Bangel shipper, but I actually really like the way Spuffy are written up until season 7. Even the dreaded attempted rape scene from Seeing Red (which is still to this day one of the most controversial and debated scenes from any fandom I’m part of) makes sense in the context of the relationship. I respect Whedon for writing that in, because as hard as it was to film for SMG and James, and how horrific, upsetting and controversial it is, it feels like a natural culmination of their relationship and the path its on in season 6. It shows how wrong that relationship is and it’s a reminder that regardless of how different Spike may seem from other soulless vampires, he is still a vampire without a soul. Whether you love him or hate him, it’s a clear statement that he is a monster and that’s very important to establish and to remember. It also reinforces what we’re told and shown throughout the season, which is that Buffy cannot love him because he’s a monster. That one line she says, “Ask me again why I could never love you” is such an incredibly powerful one and despite the horror of the scene, it’s probably one of my favourites because of how much is conveyed with just one sentence.

Moving on from their relationship in season 6 (because I could discuss it all night), the fact that I like the way Spuffy are written in season 6 is why I don’t like the way they are written in season 7. Everything about the relationship in season 7 feels forced and inorganic. It isn’t a progression of their relationship from season 6, it’s like Whedon hit the reset button and tried to rewrite them as a fresh new ship without the weight of their history. The problem is, in doing that he fundamentally changes what Buffy and Spike are. Spike getting a soul could never change the fact that Buffy is incapable of loving him. Buffy has told Spike that he’s beneath her, she’s called him a thing, told him numerous times she cannot and will never love him and the nature of their relationship in season 6 only reaffirms those feelings she has. Buffy doesn’t have any positive feelings towards Spike in seasons 1-6, and getting a soul doesn’t magically fix or change that. From my perception, the person Spike fundamentally is isn’t someone that Buffy could love. Even if she’d met him as a human, she would never look twice at him. So Buffy’s characterisation has to be sacrificed in season 7 in order for her relationship with Spike to develop. The Buffy Summers I know and love would never pursue a romantic relationship with Spike soul or no soul and it doesn’t matter how much I appreciate their dynamic in seasons 1-6, I can’t get past that and as a result I can’t enjoy them in season 7 because it doesn’t fit with how I perceive those characters and their relationship.

This has got incredibly long, so I’ll wrap it up by saying that I enjoy and appreciate Spuffy in seasons 1-6, because I accept them for what they are. In season 6, it’s unhealthy, it’s destructive and it’s toxic, but it’s also a push and pull dynamic. I don’t perceive just Buffy OR Spike to be the victim in that relationship, they are both victims (excluding Seeing Red, where Buffy is obviously the only victim). It’s an important relationship in exploring Buffy’s mental state in season 6 and season 6 wouldn’t be what it is without Spike and Spuffy.

Bangel

I already shared my opinion on Bangel before, you can read it here.

Xanya

I really don’t have any opinions on this ship, I’m completely indifferent to them. They don’t stand out to me as being a particularly special ship in terms of their chemistry or story, but I also don’t dislike them. I personally still think that Xander was gay and that Whedon should’ve pursued that path with him because it would’ve made more sense, but he chose to write Willow as the gay character instead and god forbid we have more than one LGBT character from the main ensemble cast *gasp*

Cole/Phoebe

I really like Phoebe and Cole as a ship (you can read more of my opinions on them here and here) and think that over the years people have jumped on the bandwagon about how “toxic” and bad for each other they were, but they actually had a lot of positive qualities. Phoebe and Cole had great chemistry and passion, they were very well matched and their love endured so much. They were star-crossed lovers that were mortal enemies but that fell in love with each other and fought tooth and nail to make their relationship work. Their relationship is proof that the age old cliche of “love conquers all” is simply not true. Phoebe and Cole were deeply in love but their love wasn’t enough and no matter how many times they tried or how long and hard they clung onto each other, they couldn’t make it work. What I like about their relationship is that it carries an important message that we don’t always end up with the person who is the love of our life. There’s an expectation that most of us have that we will find the love of our life and be with them until the day we (or they) die, but in many instances that’s not the case. Phoebe and Cole are a testament to that and prove that even if the relationship doesn’t last, the love two people share is still important and will always stay with them. Piper/Leo

I’ve briefly discussed Piper and Leo before here, but I’ll go into more detail. Surprisingly, I’m not a very big Pleo shipper. I like them but I just don’t buy into them as the epic true love story that they’re sold to us as being. Generally, Leo as a character is rather one-dimensional and I think that Piper could’ve had a much better love interest. Leo is defined by his “goodness” as a Whiteligher and although his arc takes a darker twist in season 6, it rarely strays from that narrative. Over the years as I’ve gotten older I’ve noticed the complete lack of development they have and when Piper has her big realisation that she’s in love with Leo in Love Hurts, it’s not very earned. Throughout season 1 Piper is attracted to Leo, they have a few interactions and sleep together, but he’s not really that significant in her life. Piper barely knows anything about him other than the fact that he’s a handyman and there’s not much of a basis there for her to fall in love with him. In season 2, when the whole love triangle comes into play with Leo and Dan, it makes even less sense because Dan actually makes much more sense as a love interest for Piper. He’s “normal” (Piper talks often about how she craves for normality in her life), he’s reliable, he’s present in her daily life, he’s sweet, considerate, romantic and attractive. All of the problems that Piper has in her relationship with Leo - him being magical and his prolonged absences - directly contrast Dan. Dan doesn’t pose any of those problems, so the question is why does Piper love Leo more than Dan?

I suppose this issue taps into a fundamental aspect of the Piper and Leo relationship that they’re destined and soul mates. When it comes to destiny and soul mates, it’s hard to then argue that a couple is underdeveloped, because their connection is routed in a cosmic bonding of souls which is difficult to quantify. And despite their lack of development in seasons 1 and 2, I do buy into them being soul mates as the seasons progress. The way in which they consistently find their way back to each other and overcome obstacles to be with each other solidifies them as being soul mates. I particularly like their relationship in seasons 4 and 5 when they’re at their strongest and most united.

However, as I mentioned in the post I’ve linked above, I have a lot of issues with the way they were ripped apart at the end of season 5 in Oh My Goddess. That whole plot felt incredibly forced to me and I would’ve much preferred that Piper and Leo were able to stay together for the remainder of the series without some ridiculous obstacle being thrown in their way just for the sake of it. By that point they’d already had to overcome Leo being a Whitelighter, the love triangle with Dan, getting the Elders to accept their romance and having a baby. It was hardly a smooth ride for them and to rip them apart when Wyatt was still so young was particularly cruel and unfair. Although they tried to get the relationship back on track and re-establish them, it never felt quite right to me after that. I love the love scene between them in The Courtship of Wyatt’s Father, but everything else about the way their relationship is written in season 6 is awful. Piper hiding her pregnancy from Leo is incredibly OOC for her and Leo being a neglectful father is also very OOC. I appreciate that in season 7 their relationship is quite representative of the rough patches that a lot of long-term relationships go through and that they’re basically “on the rocks”, but I still don’t like how they’re written. The whole season is basically Piper babysitting Leo and worrying about him non-stop, up until The Seven Year Witch, which I’ll admit is one of the most romantic episodes for Piper and Leo and finally gets their relationship back on track.

Overall, I like Piper and Leo together, but I don’t love them together. I think their love endured a lot and that ultimately they were soul mates, but I also think that their relationship didn’t really start to be anything particularly special until around season 3. Therefore, the writers could’ve ended her relationship with Leo in season 1 and I wouldn’t have been shocked and thought, “But hold on, Leo was the love of Piper’s life he needs to come back”, because I just don’t think they had the development at that stage for him to be considered so important (despite what the writing tells us very early on). The sisters could’ve got a new Whitelighter from season 2 onwards (which would’ve been a good opportunity to bring fresh blood onto the show) and Piper could’ve had another long-term love interest whether it be Dan or someone entirely new, and I could’ve bought that as much as I buy into Piper and Leo.

Prue/Andy I’ve spoken about Prue and Andy before here and I don’t really have much more to add. I think they’ve a very underrated ship that had a lot of potential. They were incredibly well matched and I believe that Paige and Henry’s relationship in season 8 provides insight into the kind of relationship Prue and Andy could’ve had if they had both survived. Suliet

I’ve shared my feelings about Suliet already here. I don’t have much more to add than what I’ve already said in my previous post, except I absolutely adore Sawyer and Juliet as a ship. It’s a rare thing to be able to convey so much depth and emotion in such a short time-span, but the LOST writers pulled it off perfectly. Their relationship is the perfect culmination of their character development and two unlikely people coming together results in the most beautiful relationship. It’s sad that we don’t get more flashbacks of their time in Dharmaville and the earlier days of their relationship, but nonetheless, what we are given was beautiful. Their reunion scene in the Flash Sideways is still one of my all time favourite LOST scenes. The emotion and connection in that scene captures everything that they are and confirms that they’re soul mates, which is particularly poetic since Juliet walks way from him in season 5 because she thinks they’re not meant to be together. How wrong was she? #soulmates #meanttobe Skate

I’ve spoken quite in-depth about Skate previously, here and here. I appreciate and enjoy their dynamic, but from my perspective the romantic aspect of it was always very one-sided. They made more sense to me as friends and I understood them as friends. I think they were just too similar to work in a relationship and like I said with Spuffy above, I always felt that there was something deeply ingrained in Kate that prevented her from ever being able to love Sawyer in a romantic sense. She definitely loved him and at certain points she had romantic feelings for him, but it was never strong enough; it was never secure or absolute. That’s the reason they never worked as a couple because even when she tried to be with him, she was never fully there. But that’s because she was always in love with Jack, which brings me nicely onto the next ship.Jate

My recent LOST re-watch reminded me how much I actually like Jack and Kate as a pairing. I’ve always shipped them but I’ve never been particularly hardcore for them (my favourite LOST ship has always been Suliet or Demond and Penny), but I really noticed on my re-watch how much they loved each other. What’s great about it though is that it’s not a very in-your-face relationship. If you’ve only watched the show once or haven’t watched it in a while it’s easy to build up this perception in your head that it’s very Jack-Kate centric, but it’s not really. It is very Jack-Kate centric in regards to the attention their individual characters get and the amount of scenes they have together, but the actual romantic aspect of their relationship doesn’t get much focus. It’s obvious that they’re in love, but it’s just built into the natural dynamic they have with each other. Primarily when they’re on the island they’re friends and partners who are each other’s constant source of support. They’re fiercely loyal to each other and that aspect of their relationship is easy to overlook, but every single time one of them makes a decision the other is there backing them up, even if they might not always necessarily think it’s the right decision. They’re always a team and they work together and trust each other implicitly. With any ship there’s the whole “I’ll do anything for you” mantra that we all feel when we’re in love, but with Jack and Kate you see that all the time. They will literally do anything for each other. No matter what life or death situation they’re in, they will always go back for each other if one of them is left behind (this is why I have slight issues with the last season, because Kate leaving Jack behind to die is very OOC and generally the two of them being separated for most of their time on the island doesn’t make sense). Despite how manipulative Kate can be, they’re equals and I think what initially draws them to each other is the strength they see in each other. From the second they meet on the island they see each other’s determination and sheer will in getting off the island and protecting everybody. Kate spends her life on the run, hiding who she is from the world, but with Jack he just sees her and her spirit. Even when he finds out about her crimes, he never really needs her to explain because he accepts her for who she is and trusts that what he sees of her is exactly who she truly is. It’s such a well-crafted slow burn relationship that is established from the pilot and is consistently built upon until the final episode. Everything that happens between them feels earned because of that time and attention that’s given to establishing them. From the second they walk into each other’s lives they bond and that bond is unbreakable. It just makes me sad, that just like with Suliet, we didn’t get enough scenes of them being a normal, happy couple. But the scenes we do get are well selected and perfectly encapsulate everything they’re about as a couple.

Jacket

Can I just say first of all, that this ship name is quite comical? All I picture is a denim jacket when I see this haha. It’s good that I get to speak about Jack and Juliet actually, because my re-watch made me see them in a different light. In the past I was always “eh” about Jack and Juliet. I never really understood why it was written for it to then just be erased before it even had chance to develop. However, my eyes have been opened to the immense potential this ship had. The thing is with the Jack-Kate-Sawyer-Juliet love square, is the writers really could’ve chosen to go in any direction with the pairings and it would’ve worked - we got Jack/Kate and Sawyer/Juliet and that worked, we could’ve had Kate/Sawyer and Jack/Juliet and that would’ve worked and we even could’ve had Jack/Sawyer and Kate/Juliet, god knows the chemistry and tension was there to make it work!

Jack and Juliet are generally overlooked and forgotten as a pairing because of how fast they were brushed off, but they had great development. In a way, Jack and Juliet’s relationship starts off as a kind of Stockholm Syndrome; Jack is a prisoner and Juliet is the captor. Juliet knows everything about Jack and purposefully uses clever emotional manipulation to get the desired outcome from him. Jack knows this, he knows that she’s playing him and that she’s acting on behalf of Ben who is dictating to her what to do, yet he develops a complex emotional bond with her because of the kindness she shows him and the fact that she’s the only human companionship he gets. When you’re locked up in a cell with no human contact and nothing to do, all you have to look forward to is the person who’s visiting you everyday to bring food. Jack falls into a routine with Juliet where he goes and sits against the wall when she enters and he brings her sandwiches with toothpicks (notice how this becomes a sort of weird connection between them which they both make reference to later on as they become friends). Jack is naturally a very good judge of character; he’s able to read people and situations very well and from the get go his instincts tell him that Juliet is a good person. Very early on he’s able to distinguish between her and the rest of the Others, even before he builds up complete trust in her, he still senses that she’s the most reliable and that she may actually help him escape.

But it’s not just Jack that builds a bond with Juliet. Juliet also builds one with Jack. We know from flashbacks that Juliet has had a rather lonely existence on the island. She’s been separated from her sister, the most profound connection she has in her life, and the one bond she establishes on the island - with Goodwin - is taken away from her by Ben. Ben’s obsession with Juliet leads him to purposefully isolate her and as a result she’s very lonely. When she meets Jack she is sent in by Ben to manipulate him, but she looks at Jack and sees herself - a prisoner. Juliet may not physically be in a cell, but it doesn’t mean she’s any less of a prisoner. From the beginning she sees Jack as a ray of hope, a comrade and someone that she could possibly escape with and find a new life with.

Much like Jack and Kate, Jack and Juliet’s bond is instant, but slowly develops over time due to the complicated circumstances they find themselves under. Juliet does what she can to protect Jack and likewise Jack does what he can to protect Juliet. They develop an implicit understanding and trust that leads them to depend on one another. And when they realise that their main goal is the same - to escape Ben - they also become allies. It’s actually a fascinating way for a relationship to develop and based on other shows I’ve seen it’s unique too.

Putting aside the circumstances of how they meet and how their relationship develops, as people Jack and Juliet are very suited. They’re both healers and spend their lives saving lives (or giving life in Juliet’s case), they’re both medical marvels who accomplish seemingly impossible tasks (Jack performing miraculous spine surgery and Juliet making infertile women pregnant) they’re loyal, intelligent and determined. And when they come together there’s an ease and familiarity between them whereby it seems like they’ve known each other for a long time. I also didn’t really notice before, but they also have pretty great chemistry (you can particularly see it in the following scenes (x) (x) (x) go to 2:45 on the last one).

Of course, none of this matters because no matter how beautifully developed their relationship was, Jack was in love with Kate since season 1 and no matter how he felt about Juliet it would never compare to that. It’s sad in a way, because like I said at the beginning, Jack and Juliet had a lot of potential. But I do think that there was that ultimate spark missing between them. They had chemistry but it was never quite the same as the chemistry Jack had with Kate or Juliet had with Sawyer. Jack and Juliet’s relationship feels like that very “safe” relationship that people enter into because they’re too scared to get their heart broken by someone they truly love that ignites passion and excitement and all of that other dangerous and exciting stuff in them. Like Juliet said to Kate in season 4, Jack kissing her was just him trying to prove to himself that he didn’t love Kate. Jack was just scared of taking the plunge with Kate because he knew she could really hurt him. So in that respect, they never would’ve worked. Jack and Kate were set up as the endgame ship in the pilot and everybody knew that. Nonetheless, I still appreciate Jack and Juliet’s dynamic and friendship, and think that although it didn’t develop into something romantic there was always an undercurrent of something more between them.

#answered #my meta #sophygurl #i love you sm for sending these in #writing meta's has become one of my fave things on here

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softcoredarren · 5 years

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Ship: Buffy and cookie dough

vomit / don’t ship / ok / cute / adorable / sexy / perfect / beyond flawless / hot damn / screaming and crying /i will ship them in hell

Oh Thanks I truly love that one :).

I love that talk she has with Angel cause that’s a smart and strong woman understanding she needs to find herself, on her own, before thinking about anything else. And that’s something very few tv shows gets right. She doesn’t need men to be happy, and if she finds one for her along the way, great, but she decides to find herself first.

That’s a part of Buffy that take all it’s true meaning when you see it while a grown up. When I was 2_ something and saw it first, I didn’t truly get how important that talk was. But now, oof, it’s the perfect ending for her. (and that’s a fanon Spuffy fan saying that lol).

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whitewolfofwinterfell · 4 years

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Another Ranking game Buffy edition - Rank all the original Scoobies (Giles, Buffy, Willow, Xander) in order of your favorite to least favorite. Again no ties allowed ;) Rank these Buffy ships: Buffy/Angel, Buffy/Spike, Buffy/Riley, Willow/Oz, Willow/Tara, Xander/Anya. Rank the relationships: Buffy/Dawn, Buffy/Joyce, Buffy/Giles, Buffy/Willow, Buffy/Xander, Xander/Willow. And, finally, rank the seven seasons from your favorite to least favorite. Have fun!

Sorry about taking a while to respond to this, I’ve been crazy busy at work and like to take the time to properly consider my responses to asks like these.

The original Scoobies

1. Buffy - I love Buffy so much. She’s one of my all time favourite characters. There are few characters that are as well written as Buffy; she’s so complex and multi-layered. I love her strength, courage and resillience, and that despite being the Chosen One, she’s deeply flawed.

2. Giles - I love Giles’ wit, sarcasm and intellect. He can always make me laugh with his one-liners. I like that despite being a cerebral type that’s always got his nose in a book he’s also the kind of man that wears and earring and likes to play his guitar. He’s just a very lovable character.

3. Xander - I really like Xander and think he gets a lot of unfair hate. He’s not perfect, but none of the Buffyverse characters are, that’s what makes them so amazing. He’s funny, loyal and a genuine hero.

4. Willow - I’m not in love with Willow’s character, but appreciate the journey she goes on across the series. She undergoes huge change from season 1 to season 7 and seeing her transform from a nerd who lacks in confidence to a powerful witch is interesting to see.

Romantic ships

1. Buffy/Angel - Obviously Bangel were going to take the top spot. They’re one of my greatest OTPs and I’ll always love them. Their relationship is the definition of star-crossed lovers and it’s portrayed so well. Their connection and chemistry will always blow me away. There is simply something profound about their relationship which trumps any other relationship on BTVS.

2. Willow/Oz - They’re so adorable and a genuine partnership. I don’t agree with or like what was done to them in season 4 and find it to be completely OOC for Oz to cheat on Willow. Oz was the first person to genuinely like Willow for who she was and to boost her self-esteem. They were on the same wave-length, they knew how to laugh together and they were always united. They’re not an in-your-face type ship, but they’re the kind that are always there in the background holding hands or exchanging a loving look, and I really like that about them.

3. Willow/Tara - I love how Willow and Tara started out; how they bonded over magic and Willow saw herself in Tara who was somewhat of an outcast and painfully shy and unconfident. I love how they came to develop feelings for one another so authentically just by simply spending time together as friends and how their romance blossomed naturally. I have issues with certain things that happened between them in season 6 and I do think that overall, the relationship was really unhealthy for both of them particularly towards the end, but I see the love and connection between them and I believe it.

4. Buffy/Spike - It may surprise some that Spuffy are so high on this list because I don’t actually ship them at all, but I still enjoy their dynamic. Buffy and Spike are very strong as individual characters, so when they come together they’re compelling to watch. I don’t ship them because I think the relationship was incredibly unhealthy and damaging to Buffy, however, I’m able to see the allure of the ship and think that it’s actually a very unique and authentic relationship considering it follows the enemies-to-lovers trope.

5. Buffy/Riley - I’m pretty indifferent to Buffy and Riley. I don’t ship them but I don’t hate them either. I think they had some sweet moments and weirdly, Riley was probably the best relationship Buffy had in regards to being able to live a relatively “normal” life with him. I also think that he was a positive influence in Buffy’s life, particularly in the beginning. However, Riley was always intimidated by Buffy’s strength and powers as the Slayer and he let his insecurities get in the way as a result. I also think that Buffy, despite loving Riley a lot, was never able to open her heart to him completely because of her history with Angel. By the time Buffy realised how much she loved Riley and was prepared to fully open up, Riley had already decided to move on. Buffy and Riley aren’t and never will be epic love, but I think they loved each other a lot more than people recognise and that Riley was definitley more than just a rebound relationship for Buffy.

6. Xander/Anya - Once again, I’m indifferent to Xander and Anya. I don’t find anything appealing about them as a ship, but I don’t dislike them either. I don’t think they were ever really well-suited and that they only got together because Anya pursued Xander and was pretty forceful with him. In the end, the relationship was never going to work because they were too different. However, I appreciate that they really did love each other and they had some pretty funny scenes together.

Platonic ships

1. Buffy/Dawn - Buffy and Dawn’s relationship is one of the relationships that is the heart of the show. The fact that Dawn was created and in a sense was never truly Buffy’s sister meant that Buffy could’ve easily rejected her. Instead, Buffy accepted Dawn as being her own flesh and blood; a part of her. They argued and disagreed on occassion, just like all siblings do, but they were fiercely protective of each other and loved each other deeply. After Joyce’s death, Buffy took on a parental role and not only had to be Dawn’s sister, but also her mother, father, teacher, guide, friend and everything else in between. Dawn looked up to Buffy as her role model and Buffy allowed Dawn to grow into a strong, beautiful and compassionate young lady. Buffy said that Xander was her strength, but so was Dawn. I think without Dawn in her life she wouldn’t have had the same will to carry on after Joyce’s death.

2. Buffy/Giles - I just love Buffy and Giles’ dynamic. Giles was assigned to be Buffy’s Watcher and had a professional obligation to guide her, but their relationship became so much more than that. Giles saw Buffy’s strength, courage, vitality and compassion; he saw beyond her being the Slayer and understood that she was a girl. His greatest fear was failing her and he did everything he could to guide and protect her for as long as he could, even after his official duties as her Watcher ended. Giles fulfilled the father-figure role in Buffy’s life since her biological father was absent from her life, and Buffy greatly benefitted from that. There were so many people in Buffy’s life who she couldn’t have made it without, and Giles is certainly one of those people. It’s not just his knowledge as a Watcher that made him so needed, it was the wisdom and guidance he provided Buffy with whenever she was in need as a Slayer or as a girl.

3. Xander/Willow - Xander and Willow remind me of the relationship I have with my best friend. When you have a friend that you’ve grown up with and that has been there with you all your life you bond in an inexplicable way. That person almost becomes a part of you. That’s the kind of bond Xander and Willow have. They know and understand each other better than anyone; they accept each other completely and everything is effortless with them. Because they’ve known each other for so long they’re naturally on the same wave-length and get each other. The scene where Xander brings Willow back from the darkness always makes me so emotional and proves how strong their bond is. There’s no one else in the world that could’ve brought Willow back in that moment.

4. Buffy/Joyce - I’m a sucker for mother/daughter relationships. Buffy and Joyce’s relationship is so endearing. Joyce is a devoted mother who always does her best by Buffy. She accepts her being the Slayer and does anything she can to try and make Buffy’s life easier. It’s not a relationship that’s exactly given a lot of focus, but when Joyce dies you immediately feel the significance of that relationship in a way you don’t before then. Joyce is Buffy’s everything and without her Buffy feels like she’s floating in space and completely alone. I think the fact that Buffy’s parents split meant that Buffy and Joyce developed an even closer relationship than before. Joyce most likely felt like she had to try and make up for the absence of Buffy’s father and try and be both parents at the same time. Initially, their relationship wasn’t ideal because Buffy was always having to lie and keep secrets from Joyce, but once Joyce found out Buffy was the slayer they seemed to become closer than ever before.

5. Buffy/Xander - Their friendship is sweet and understated, but it doesn’t stand out to me as being one of my favourite dynamics on the show. I think maybe because Xander has an unreciprocated crush on Buffy in the early seasons it meant that they had a slighly unbalanced relationship initially. However, their friendship was consistent and Xander was fiercely loyal to Buffy and by far the most consistent male presence in her life.

6. Buffy/Willow - Again, Buffy and Willow’s friendship is sweet. I like that on paper they’re unlikely friends with Buffy being the stereotypical popular pretty girl and Willow the stereotypical unpopular nerdy girl. But actually, they were able to connect beyond that and their differences meant that they complimented one another and worked together well. The only reason they’re ranked last is because I feel that Willow massively betrayed Buffy with her actions in season 6 and although it was understandable given the circumstances and Buffy forgave her, I do think that created some ongoing friction between them which simmered beneath the surface from that point on.

Seasons

1. Season 2 - I love this season and my latest BTVS rewatch reinforced my love for it. Spike and Dru are an epic pairing that are intruiging and fantastic villains; Oz and Willow are adorable and their relationship is fresh; Xander and Cordy are an unexpected but again fresh dynamic; we finally see Giles meet someone who genuinely connects with in Jenny; Buffy and Angel’s relationship is compelling and the Angelus arc is fantastic. All of the characters develop so much more in this season in comparison to season 1. The stakes are raised and there are some major moments with Jenny and Kendra’s deaths, and Buffy sacrificing Angel to save the world. All in all it’s a strong and consistent season.

2. Season 3 - It’s a strong season. The Mayor is a great villain, Faith is a complex character who is fresh and intruiging, Buffy and Angel’s relationship is compelling and it feels like there’s a coherent arc and build-up with a strong ending with The Graduation two-parter.

3. Season 5 - The first time I watched BTVS I wasn’t a fan of season 5, but I think that’s because I wasn’t a fan of Dawn. Now that I love Dawn I also love this season. Dawn is a fantastic addition to the show, her entire arc as The Key and Glory as a villain is one of the strongest of any season. Joyce’s death is shocking and heartbreaking resulting in one of the most powerful episodes of television ever made. Willow’s magic grows, Buffy’s character grows more complex and the premiere with Dracula shows that immediately and despite the immorality and to be frank, grossness, of Spike creating the Buffybot, she’s a humourous addition to the show. But the Glory and Dawn plot is definitley what makes this season so strong.

4. Season 6 - Despite the fact that this season breaks away from the humour that BTVS was built on, I really like the change in direction. This season shows the characters going through real hardships in a way we’ve never seen before. BTVS is known for using metaphors to portray the different stages of life and growing up, and this season does the same and shows how incredibly hard life can suddenly become when you enter adulthood. Buffy’s resurrection and consequent depression is hard-hitting and powerful, Xander and Anya’s relationship break-down is sad, Willow’s descent into dark magic is difficult to watch and Tara’s death is shocking and traumatic. And the Trio as villains defy the general expectations of what villains should be. There’s no denying it’s the darkest season of the show, but I appreciate the new depths this season goes to and how far the characters are pushed.

5. Season 4 - This season has grown on me a lot over the years. There are some really great episodes (Something Blue, Hush, A New Man) in this season and I enjoy the humour and lightheartness of it. Spike as a season regular works and I love the humour he brings and the complicated and contradictory nature of his relationship with the Scoobies whereby he’s their enemy but also their ally. I also think that the transition from high school to college is done pretty well considering how important the high school setting was for the show. We see Buffy, Willow and Xander all change and mature as they enter the next phase of their lives. Willow and Tara’s blossoming relationship is a joy to watch and Tara is a nice addition to the group. However, Adam as the Big Bad of the season and the Initative storyline generally massively lets the season down.

6. Season 1 - It’s not a bad season, but I just find season 1 generally slow and a bit dull. It took me about 4 attempts to actually get through the whole season and I didn’t actually fall in love with the show until season 2. It’s a safe season and a good introduction to the series but is pretty forgettable and doesn’t stand out in my mind.

7. Season 7 - This is a bad season, and lets be honest, probably shouldn’t have happened. Willow’s entire development and arc from season 6 is dismissed and it does her character a huge disservice; the Potentials are so dull and it just doesn’t work; The First as the Big Bad is a poor one to finish with; the Buffy and Spike relationship doesn’t work for me and overall it’s a pretty meh finish to an otherwise brilliant series.

#answered #the-tv-shows-became-my-haven #my meta #btvs meta

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