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the-brain-rots · 2 years

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[THEORY] Alice Deross is the Baron and the one behind the Games

Now this might sound stupid, but I have reasoning for this theory!

Let's start with why I don't believe “Nightmare” and/or Orpheus is the Baron.

. Orpheus as a detective after the games is shown to not be getting many cases (this is seen in the prologue links will be in a reblog). ➥ This could be due to distrust or this could be due to the fact that Orpheus may not be that good at finding clues, suggesting that Orpheus is simply Bad at finding connections, which if it's something he displayed before the games would make it less likely to be the Baron.

The Baron has purposefully sought out certain participants and seems to be able to find out information certain characters keep under wraps (I.e. the deductions). ➥ This trait is seen in The Novelist as, although he tried to search for clues on the death of his parents he kept getting dead ends, eventually having to accept the invite from the Manor Owner, who knew what happened to his parents.

. Orpheus directly participates in the games as The Novelist or as “Nightmare” whilst Alice does not (you may argue that “Little girl” is Alice, but she could simply be a hallucination due to the drugs within the game, likewise, she is described as a “Trapped in his nightmare, perhaps even `Orpheus` doesn't know her.” In her debut twitter post, which will be linked in a reblog)

. If Orpheus was the Baron, why would “Don't look back” (seen in cutscenes which will be linked in a reblog) be such a reoccurring theme in connection to the manor? If he was the Baron, surely he’d wish to start the experiments up again.

. On a different note, it is HEAVILY speculated that Orpheus was adopted by the Deross family (Dennis Deross and his wife, not Alice) or that Orpheus was the child of one of the staff at Oletus Manor. ➥ If Orpheus was adopted then it's likely that Alice would've been the one to inherit the manor, the lack of inheritance from the Deross couple is backed up via the “Secondary Anniversary Giftbox Extract Chapter 1: Letter” from the “Package - Nether Walker” (a transcription will be linked in a reblog). ➥ An unknown Mr. (theorized to be Orpheus) tried to adopt her but was unsuccessful due to the orphanage believing that “relatives by blood” would be a better fit.

. The orphanage Alice was at was most likely White street sand asylum, a location infamous in identity v lore, we know that the “treatments” often employed in WSSA (abbreviated) often left the patients in a worse state than they were before, which could explain why Alice decided to create the games. ➥ Alice is confirmed to have had “treatment” at the orphanage (also from the “Secondary Anniversary Giftbox Extract Chapter 1: Letter”). Apparently receiving “extremely special treatment” as well as being “arranged in a room alone” ➥ Alice being at WSSA could also explain why Emma is within the games, as it's possible that she was able to obtain documents and other information from the asylum (alongside other participants, like Ada, Emil and Emily etc).

On evidence for why Alice specifically is the baron, apart from inheritance we need to go more into speculated ties, (i.e. “Little Girl” has some aspects of Alice but is more akin to a hallucination, Miss nightingale is somewhat representative of her and finally Orpheus’s mentioned “wife” is him misremembering Alice)

. In the 3rd anniversary of Identity V, videos were released for certain characters in “Identity V | Narrator-Detective | 3rd Anniversary” (which will be linked at the in a reblog) makes a connection with Orpheus’s “wife” and a nightingale, with the nightingale her dying and the nightingale living with a renewed youth.

. Another thing that connects the “wife” / Alice / “Little Girl” with Miss Nightingale is the distinctive shade of yellow used for them all, which is only seen on them (this is not counting any alternate skins)

. Miss Nightingales design is also almost a “sister” design to “Nightmares”, with both having bird imagery (though nightmares is more superficial with his plague mask, whilst Miss Nightingale is visibly physically bird like) having similar designs helps tie them together and with her design being more physically a bird whilst “Nightmares” almost imitates one could play into her being the Manor Owner and Orpheus simply being a participant and/or staff of the games

. Miss Nightingale’s sign-off also parallels “Nightmares” title with hers being “The traveller in dreams” (this is seen in the notices of game changes which will be linked in a reblog)

. Nightmare notably dislikes birds (this is seen in his which is seen in game and is transcribed on the wiki) whilst Miss Nightingale’s namesake is a very vocal bird

Apart from that, the reasons why this theory would make sense thematically include skins and some choices from the beta (Disclaimer: just because it was in the beta doesn't mean it is canon, but what was in the beta may have influenced the final release as well as the final canon)

. Oletus manor was originally called Eurydice Manor in the beta (proof of this will be linked in a reblog)the manor being called Eurydice Manor makes Orpheus trying to get back to the manor and the past more thematically inline with the original myth, instead of Orpheus trying to get Alice from the manor. ➥ [personal bias here] I find trying to frame Alice as Eurydice distasteful as it frames Orpheus and Alice’s relationship in a romantic light, which I dislike as they are adopted siblings or had a sibling like relationship, as well as Orpheus subconsciously viewing Alice as a child, something we can infer with how his “Memory” of Alice is “Little Girl”

. In “little girl”'s debut skin, “Source of Evil” the character is description calls her “the origin of all sins” and “the source of evil thoughts” as well as saying “‘purity’ is merely the lambs disguise” which in canon could imply that “little girl” is “bait” for Orpheus to return (I believe “Little Girl” is referred to as “his unfailing bait” but I cannot locate a source for it, so it will not be expanded upon) ➥ Likewise, the descriptions of being the origin and source of “evil” could tie to Alice’s role within the story, as being the “source” of evil and the games.

. In the “Pandora” skin (a b tier skin for “Little Girl”) within the description of the skin it states “The ridiculous delusion of the naive” which backs up the fact that “Little Girl” may be “bait” for Orpheus or Orpheus’s hallucination within his match, there's also the fact that the name of the skin references the myth of Pandora. Within the myth, the titular Pandora accidentally unleashes all the illnesses, hardships and evils onto the world, which could tie into Alice Deross starting the manor games, which are immense hardships Special thanks to the wonderful fellas in the IDV NGP server in #idv-lore-discussion! Aka Saif, wackos bokus (@nekrobotanik on Twitter) and a few more

#identity v #idv #Identity v lore #identity v theory #idv baron #idv nightingale #idv little girl #idv alice #idv orpheus #Gambles & Guess〖☾〗Theories

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ladyandthewalrus · 2 years

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IDV Theory: Laz Cemetery Location and Scottish Andrew

I have been on a lore kick, and wanted to share what I feel is a decently solid theory I haven’t seen broached yet: The Laz Cemetery is is not in Turkey, Germany, or England. It’s in Edinburgh, Scotland.

Buckle up, I have spent several hours on this one!

Part one: connections between Andrew and Percy

- we know for a fact that Andrew, in his work as a Grave Keeper, began digging up bodies for the purposes of selling them to doctors and medical students for study.

-One of the individuals he is procuring corpses for has the initials “M.S.”

-Percy, who is heavily based on the characters of both Victor Frankenstein and his creation, has an assistant named Mikhail. The initials “M.S.” may also be a reference to the author of Frankenstein, Mary Shelley, much in the way Percy is named for her husband, Percy Shelley.

-In the novel, one of the places Victor travels when attempting to create a bride for his creature is Scotland. He spends some time in Edinburgh, which was known as one of Europe’s top cities for academics and scientists. The University of Edinburgh even has an anatomical museum that was constructed in the late Victorian era.

-The very character of Frankenstein is possibly based on a Scottish scientist, James Lind, who was himself from Edinburgh. Mary Shelley met him, and would have discussed with him his interests in experiments regarding galvanism to move the muscles of dead animals. So, albeit indirectly, Percy is based on this man, and it is somewhat reasonable to assume he could be conducting his research in or around Edinburgh.

Part two: Edinburgh’s composition and body-snatching problems+ economic incentives to dig up corpses

-Edinburgh is host to a number of large, elaborate, and very beautiful grave yards. A simple google search will bring up the names of 13 cemeteries located in the city. Many of them have large green areas where the old graves are overtakes by flowers, and most are several centuries old.

-Funerals were very expensive in the Victorian era, often prohibitively so. A poor family spending £5 on a funeral could be expending almost a fourth of their yearly income. Manual laborers like Andrew did not make a lot of money, but bodysnatchers could get a decent amount per body sold.

-IDV plays a bit fast loose with its timeline when referring actual historical individuals and events, but in the 1828, Edinburgh was the hunting ground for a pair of notorious serial murderers who targeted people specifically to sell their bodies to scientists and medical students.

- Based on his deductions, Andrew does not seem to have gone this far; he may have (unwittingly) buried someone alive, which was unfortunately not uncommon in the Victorian era and killed the Night Watchman who caught him bodysnatching. Still not great, but certainly not as bad as killing for the purposes of selling bodies. There was a real problem with bodysnatching in Edinburgh at the time, as generally plagued major cities in the UK in general, as it was often not possible to legally come by a corpse for dissection.

Part Three: Oletus Manor’s location and distance from Laz Cemetery

-Oletus manor is in England. It’s easy to be thrown off because Orpheus has an inexplicably American accent, but the DeRoss family have clear British accents. Additionally, the official map showing the location of the manor in reference to several other important locations places it near the Sacred Heart Hospital.

- The Doctor, Emily, performed work at both Sacred Heart Hospital and White Sand Street Asylum. The Ripper, who was active, as far as we know, solely in Whitchapel, London, was likely a patient there at one point, given the appearance of a small Jack doll in the hallway at White Sand.

- So Oletus Manor is very likely close to London.

-In Andrew’s birthday letter, “M.S.” suggests Andrew head to the manor to lie low for a while after being caught digging up a grave and generally being too prolific in his bodysnatching. He gives him a train ticket in order to get him out of town and to the Manor, where he can bide things over.

- As of 1846, it was possible to take the train from Edinburgh to London on the Great Northern Railway.

- The letter does not imply significant additional travel by other means will be necessary for Andrew to get to the manor.

- From this, we can gather that Laz Cemetery is on the same landmass as Oletus Manor, but sufficiently distant that train is the best option to reach it.

Tl; dr: based on both Edinburgh’s problem with grave robbers, Andrew’s connection to Percy, who was based via his inspiration being taken from Frankenstein, on a Scotsman, and the fact than Oletus Manor is reachable via train from Laz, the cemetery is in Scotland, specifically Edinburgh and Andrew is possibly Scottish too, given he accidentally buried his childhood landlord alive at Laz.

Extra little tidbits:

-Andrew’s surname is German, but I can tell you confidently as someone who has lived in Scotland that Scotland is full of men named Andrew. St. Andrew is even the patron saint of Scotland! Also his ancestry could still be German, as Germans are one of the largest ethnic groups in the UK.

-In his Stormy Night Surprise video, he has an English accent, but consider: Orpheus and Emma are American for some reason. It does not check out.

- In this art of several characters as cats, most of them have “generic” cat ears, but Andrew has ears that turn down, like a Scottish Fold cat!

-Andrew using Scottish slang would be funny. I want him to call someone a dirty scunner.

-Andrew in a kilt is a good idea I think. I do not know if he would enjoy wearing one but I should like to see it.

- If you read this far, I love you and thanks for taking the time to read this!

#identity v #identity v theories #idv theory #idv #speculation #idv lore #Andrew Kreiss #idv speculation #identity v theory

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sirenjose · 7 months

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Hunter Norton Backstory Trailer Analysis

As a rule, the sons of miners follow the occupation of their fathers. Once Norton’s father died, and his mother also likely dead by then too, he had no other choice but to become a miner if he wanted to survive. Especially with how poor they likely were, Norton’s father (and mother) likely left almost nothing for their son, forcing him to work hard to support himself from a young age.

Based on Norton’s comment about living like a “rat” for 20 years, as he is 28 in the present, Norton’s father potentially died when he was 8 (his mother potentially died before then), leaving him an orphan.

A Mine Regulation Act in 1872 prevented children under the age of 12 from working underground. Until then, he would likely have been kept to surface work, such as:

Sorting and transporting materials

Loading and unloading transports

Assisting with general maintenance and cleaning

Delivering messages

Etc…

An Educational Act in 1870, which applied to England and Wales, made schooling compulsory for boys between the ages of 5 and 10, while an Act in 1872 applying to Scotland made school compulsory for kids between 5 and 13.

Once he reached the age of 12, the Regulation Act in 1872 would continued to limit his work hours, which prevented boys between 12 and 16 from working more than 54 hours in 1 week or 10 hours in 1 day. It also required them to have 8 to 12 hour breaks between “periods of employment” (defined as starting when they leave the surface and ending when they return to the surface).

Once he was old enough, regular miners were expected to work at least 12 hour shifts (though this varied from mine to mine) on weekdays. And we know from Norton’s deduction 2 that he worked longer than any of his coworkers, while his 3rd letter states, as a habit, he enters the mines at least 30 minutes before the others.

Conditions in the mine were hot, musty, and cramped (as mine owners didn’t want to spend extra to make them bigger), increasing the chance of accidents. We can actually see just how narrow the tunnels usually were in the trailer.

Miners also worked in complete darkness except for lighting they had to buy themselves. In fact, they had to buy much of their own equipment.

Unfortunately, wages for miners were incredibly low back then. Miners were paid by the quality of what they produced rather than by the hour, giving owners plenty of ways to reduce how they could pay their miner (including by lying about the quality or rigging the scales).

The average wage of coal miners in the 1880s was somewhere between 3s (s = shillings) and 5s per day, with around 4s being closer to the normal, and 5 only if you were lucky. 4 shillings was about $1.20. Generally though wages varied greatly in different districts. After spending on equipment, food, and rent, they could be left with maybe no more than 1s.

Going back to the trailer, it says “Blasting Agent – Mercury (II) Fulminate”. This is an explosive compound made from mercury, nitric acid, and ethanol. It was commonly used as a primary explosive in percussion caps and detonators during the 19th century. When struck or subjected to a shock, it would rapidly decompose and produce a violent explosion. Its role was to initiate the ignition or detonation of the main explosive charge, such as dynamite.

This is the stuff that we see him pouring into the dynamite.

Continuing, we see Norton smiling at a coin, but then his wrist is crushed by the other miners, who steal it from him, taunting him to try to take it back.

Norton actually smiling at the coin helps show Norton’s desire to get out of poverty, an idea he emphasizes later when he describes poverty as a “curse”.

But as we see in the Famitsu Article, people didn’t understand why he tried so hard. It “intimidated” them. Then in Norton’s 2nd letter as well as in this trailer, we see that he was ridiculed by his coworkers. They didn’t think it was possible for him to achieve such a goal. This is reflected with how essentially, at that time “Englishmen recognized if he is in a certain social grade, he is likely to remain there. He’ll never reach a higher class, and didn’t rebel”. Each class “cheerfully” accepted “the lot which providence has assigned” to them.

Norton was different though. He says in the trailer “I once thought the same” after it talks about sons of miners became miners themselves.

He may have initially accepted the same thing everyone else did, but things likely changed over time, the longer he was forced to live this sort of life.

There’s also a good chance part of his change was from working with people like Benny. He learns from them to improve himself (and hopefully improve his chance at earning more), but he also sees how these old miners are, which emphasizes in his brain he doesn’t want to end up like them. He doesn’t want to end up in hospice or stuck in poverty his whole life like they did, just waiting for the day they die.

Norton worked hard, harder and longer than everyone else, in the hopes eventually this would be enough to improve his life, to make it even slightly close to what most would consider a comfortable life, even if it meant only the basics. But it wasn’t enough. The mine owners were greedy. The other miners were all in it only for themselves. His wages were miniscule, and his daily and weekly expenses pretty great. Especially with how back in that time period, mine owners had ways where they attempted to keep their employees indebted to them, to force them to keep working for them, as well as improve their own personal profits as much as possible.

Norton was surrounded by these sorts of people forced to live in such a cruel environment, watching the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. This is reflected in his 2nd letter where he says “This is simply unfair. The poor find it difficult to lead a comfortable life, while all the rich need to do is wave their banknotes around”. He describes all the pain he’s gone through just at the chance to “climb up” out of poverty before describing “how much effort I put into this” as “ridiculous”.

His hard work is exemplified by his 3rd deduction, which describes how he’s done so well his employers always attempt (but fail) to keep him for longer. He works to learn, to improve his skills, and better himself at the chance at earning more and thus potentially work his way out of poverty faster.

We can also see it during the trailer, with him surrounded by all these books and other things.

This quality of his, where he likes to teach himself, to learn, and to improve himself has been implied at other points by Netease, such as by several of his skins or even from part of other collabs, like B.Duck, which described Norton as “full of curiosity” and “likes learning”. It also described him with a “desire to act at MAX” or “highest level of execution”. This means he’s the type of person to put all his effort into whatever he does.

It just wasn’t enough.

We even see the sort of suffering this life has forced him to endure, as in the trailer it shows him coughing due to the damage his lungs have suffered due to his life as a miner.

Hard work wasn’t enough. This is why he eventually turned to the list of 13 mines he learned from Benny, seeking to instead attempt to escape poverty by finding gold.

As explained by @metalIurgy and @Deskdeas, each of the names on this list are European mines or people.

(Also, there seems to be 15 names total on the list, rather than 13)

Von Donnersmarck: House of Donnersmarck, prominent aristocratic family that originated in the region of Silesia. Owned mines.

Georg Wilhelm: Russian military officer and engineer who specialized in mining

Prince Konstantin: prince of Russia, killed in a mining shaft

Ștefan Procopiu: physicist who researched electricity and magnetism

Friedrich Alfred Krupp: German industrialist, developed Krupp steel manufacturer and arms manufacturing company

Saarbergwerke: mining company that operated in the Saarland region of Germany

Romeria: religious pilgrimage (Spain or spanish speaking countries?)

Petro-pavlivska (''Петро-павлівська''): black coal mine located in the Eastern part of Ukraine

Nova Baňa: silver and gold mining site in central Slovakia.

Swansea Copper: Welsh copper mines

Eramet: French multinational mining and metallurgical company

Ivan Polzunov: Russian engineer known for his contributions to steam engine technology

Wowdcole: ?

(Sorry, I can't read the 15th name crossed out in the top left corner of the list)

We know from Norton’s 5th deduction that he tried and failed to find anything at any of the other 12 mines, leaving him with only Golden Cave left.

Back to the trailer, we see him with a map.

The left side looks like it should be a map of Lakeside and the surrounding area, with Golden Cave being the X at the base of the mountains. Count Barriere is the owner of this land, and also the owner of Golden Cave. The right side should be the representation of a map of the mine itself.

Considering how earlier Norton’s coworkers stole Norton’s coin, it’s possible they essentially tried to do the same thing here. Saw him looking at the map, then took it for themselves. Like how Norton’s 8th deduction includes “you need more helpers”, they may have forced him to take them along, and why they explore it on their own without Norton. Especially with the looks on their faces in that scene not showing they had any good intentions.

(A lot of what I’ll say next is said very well by @Yaboku_samaa)

Norton seems to have set all this up in advance, before they came through the mine.

Next we see Norton’s inner conflict. A conflict between morals and vengeance represented by survivor Norton vs Hunter Norton. His Hunter side manages to win out by telling Norton that this is what they deserve, it’s revenge for all the pain and ridicule he’s been put through, all in silence, all without fighting back. He’s forced to keep a façade. To keep his true feelings hidden if he doesn’t want a penalty or reduction in wages. He’s tired of having to live such a hard life of constant suffering and humiliation and hopelessness, and thus why he had hit his limit and the side represented by his Hunter version won out.

(I’m not going to push the idea too much, but it’s possible Norton may have bipolar disorder. That or DID, especially with how he literally talks to himself in his 2nd letter. Especially as both can form in children or young adults who experience long-term physical or emotional distress or abuse. Causes can include childhood trauma (like neglect, abuse, trauma, losing someone like a parent), stressful life events, genetics, etc…)

This decision is shown during the trailer when Norton says “There are ways to make a change”.

Norton’s 2nd letter does an accurate job of summarizing everything:

“Over the last 20 years, I lived like a rat in the gutter. I spent days under the ground in the dark just so I could earn a minimal living. Scars from the blasts crawled all over my face like maggots. The constant scorn and ridicule... I endured it every time just so I'd get a chance to climb up the ladder. It's ridiculous how much effort I put into this—anyway, I've finally managed to crawl out from the rat hole. I no longer have to pick and pull on the disgusting ash. Those who did nothing but laugh at me deserve to stay underground and be stepped on like maggots forever.”

And the trailer visually showing Norton’s inner conflict matches up very well with how quite clearly Norton in his 2nd letter is arguing with himself. The side represented by Hunter Norton is likely the version talking right now, trying to convince him (the side represented by Survivor Norton) to kill the female, “think about how arrogant she is” and all the money he’d get. The fact he is trying to convince himself shows that Norton doesn’t want to do it, and how he isn’t willing to do anything for money. His hatred for his coworkers for their treatment of him for so long was enough for the side represented by Hunter Norton to convince him to trigger the explosion on them, but that motivation doesn’t exist here. Right now, his less moral side is trying to motivative him with money and thinking about others as “arrogant” and essentially mean, as well as the doubt that she could do something to him.

But that may not be enough to convince him next time to actually do it if he’s given a chance. At Golden Cave, that was his last chance to try to find gold. He’d gone through 12 other mines (and 20 years of pain on top of that) with nothing to show for it. Norton may be very stubborn and determined, but even he was growing so very desperate, which is shown well by Norton’s 5th deduction as well as by the trailer itself. So it makes sense that Norton was mentally not in the right place and vulnerable to the sort of temptation we see him going through in the trailer.

Norton is alone. No family. No money. Suffering from lung problems. Has never been shown kindness and forced to grow up in a very cruel environment. The only thing keeping him moving forward and losing all hope is by focusing on his goal of getting out of poverty and achieving some form of a comfortable life with at least the basic necessities. This is shown very well by Norton’s 4th birthday emote “Savings”, where Norton takes out a single gold coin and thinks about simple worn clothes and a loaf of bread, while the description reads “Endure it, Norton. You’re almost there”.

For years he attempted to push on, but little by little, his coworkers, his employers, his environment, it all chipped away at him until he felt he had no other choice. I believe the trailer does a good job of emphasizing how his main motivation wasn’t greed but desperation, hopelessness, and the pain he was subjected to by his coworkers and everyone. It’s life or death, and this mine is his last chance, and his deep misery that pushes him over the edge, so it’s no wonder he doesn’t care about anyone anymore. He’s always been alone, always had to be the one to look out for himself. No one else could be trusted. They would only take advantage of him or even potentially steal what little he had. Yet even still he hesitated to pull the trigger, which I think says a lot about Norton.

Despite the decision being made, he doesn’t run after he sets off the explosion. He accepts what happens. There’s no way he didn’t know what was going to happen, not with how long he’s worked as a miner, and how much he’s learned in his own time. It could be the side represented by his survivor version sees the scar as punishment for his deeds. It could be he knew if he wanted to get his revenge he had to deal with the potential scars.

But he was here not just for revenge, but for the chance at finding gold. Hunter Norton’s character backstory says the accident brought Norton “Golden Luck” or “a gold rush of fortune”, so it sounds like he did find something.

We do know he at least found the meteorite, which is what he made his magnet from, so this could be what is referred to in Hunter Norton’s backstory.

Along with the above, we could connect whatever his “golden luck” was with Memory’s comment during Time of Reunion, where she says “they seemed to be looking for something other than ore”.

This is repeated during AoM with a newspaper clipping about rumors being false of precious metal ore in the mine.

Considering Golden Cave’s rumor is “despite not a single piece of gold was ever found, Count Barriere still got what he wanted with this land”, these statements should be talking about the same thing.

It’s possible Barriere was after the meteorite, especially as the only things we know that came out of that mine after it collapsed were Norton and the chunks of the meteorite he carried.

There are potential parallels from Lily’s essence, which connects to Golden Cave, and her essence story says “The mine is filled with special phosphorescent ores, which brought wealth to their ancestors but also cursed them with phosphorescent illness”. Considering in the famitsu article it says the magnet aka the meteorite may have been affecting his brain, it’s possible the “phosphorescent ores” is meant to parallel the meteorite.

If that is what Barriere is after, maybe there’s a chance he reached out to Norton afterwards, and he could’ve been the one to offer Norton all that money in exchange for killing some female. Especially when we know Count Barriere has a lot of money based on Lily’s backstory, as he even offered her enough to survive for 2 years and even more via making her the owner of the IOU likely belonging to Orpheus for him buying Oletus Manor.

Anyways, we also know from Norton’s 3rd letter that he “dug his way out through a mountain creek a few dozen meters away from the mine” with only “minor burns”. We also know from the Famitsu Article that people didn’t talk to him, they said a bare minimum then kept a “wide berth”, and considering the very visible scar on his face, it is possible this was the reason they avoided him (they were frightened of him. Like we see at the end of the trailer, it is possible people saw him as a “monster”, especially back then when these sorts of things weren’t treated or seen as kindly as today).

#idv #identity v #norton campbell #prospector #Fool's Gold #fools gold #Hunter Norton #idv norton #identity v norton #idv prospector #identity v prospector #idv fool's gold #identity v fool's gold #idv fools gold #identity v fools gold #idv hunter norton #identity v hunter norton #sirenjose analyses and theories

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eclairris · 2 months

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Drabbles from Re-Playing AOM

OKAY SO- woe Spoilers and speculations upon ye

I'm still reflecting on the card that's deliberately put into Alice's room underneath a picture frame of the Deross family. It's probably just cut and dry like "ohhh Alice is a sacrifice" but I can get more nitpicky with it

On the back it says "Welcome to Join the Hunting Game" which could be two things

Either A really poor translation on IDV's part, and is further saying the obvious that Alice is a sacrifice (Which would make sense given how we've pretty much gotten hunter versions of da capo excluding her, if you count Frederick being a hallucination influenced by Orpheus' exposition, and how Melly is on the near horizon).

Or it could quite literally be saying "Here pookie, stop running and succumb to the delulu" and putting hunter Alice into concretion But I think it's also probably just saying regardless that Alice is the direct sacrifice that Orpheus believes will keep the games going (clearly something went wrong) given how lambs are treated within religion and folklore.

I also did replay It and select every visit option I could for that sweet loredrop and I haven't seen anyone talk about this either.

The person literally saying that is young orph (orphan, If you will). The whole muse corridor points into details about the raid itself, which is odd because just a cutscene prior was Alice getting chased by hallucinations down that same corridor. It got me thinking about how IDV developers have considered giving Alice a hunter form.

So what do I know about this bird?? Uh the bare minimum actually but it can serve as some type of drop with how the story's going. He's not saying Alice is the Nightingale. He's saying she's better than it, which could resort to the potentiality of hunter Alice taking on the form of a "nightingale" if we go off the fact that most identity swaps with heavy lore (at least in da Capo's case) is based on either regression, repression, or insecurities.

Norton - Repression. He's not keeping up face when it comes to his identity swap. Literally chaos incarnate. Orpheus - Projection. Nightmare can quite literally be called Orpheus' Mary Sue oc. That's the post. Mary/Frederick technically isn't influenced more by Frederick himself but rather Alice's way of seeing it. Which fucks up a lot but let's not talk about it. I'd say it leans more towards Identification.

Melly could potentially have some correlation to the odd point Orph brought up

"After all, there's a price to pay for being unfaithful, isn't that right Mrs. Plinius."

Which is probably saying that Mr good ol plinius wasn't loyal and probably either had an affair or did something behind melly's back.

If the point of Alice being braver than the Nightingale is anything to go off of and whatnot then it could be safe to say her identity could be based off that if she ever gets one. It could play off of her bravery and need to look towards the future as opposed to Orpheus being stuck in the past. It could also explain why we haven't heard or seen much when it comes to Nightingale, because of two reasons

they're saving her for some big story update much like the rest of the da capo identity swaps.

Orpheus has been PROVEN to be an unreliable narrator. Surely wanting to dissect Orpheus under a microscope isn't delusional enough.

#identity v #alice deross #norton campbell #orpheus #idv theory #fan theory #ramblings #melly plinius #journalist idv #novelist idv #frederick kreiburg #composer idv #idv entomologist #idv #eclairs nonsense

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neoplasm230 · 2 months

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Laios and Luchino outfit swap

#dungeon meshi #delicious in dungeon #laios touden #identity v #idv #idv luchino #idv professor #luchino diruse #spoilers ahead!#two autistic massive biology nerds #who are friendly to people but largely alone regardless #have a deep respect and understanding of nature that other humans usually don’t understand #experiment their theories using their own bodies #and because of their relentless pursuit of knowledge end up becoming the monsters they study #these two silly billys scratch a very specific itch that my lil autistic brain loves

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mrgreyishere · 4 months

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OMG THE PUPPETEER BACKSTORY VID FINALLY CAME OUT I WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF A QUICK MATCH WHEN I SAW THE NOTIFICATION

Anyway, it was kinda confusing but I watched it back a few times and slowing it down, here's what I noticed:

- When Matthias opens the door towards the end to see the puppet in the coffin(?) In the newspapers on the ground, you can make out that the fire was documented. Indicating that this is either right after the event, or years after the event (which I think is more likely considering that it seemed like he hadn't seen the puppet in a while) also, you can read on the newspapers that the "head" of the act's wife died in the fire. (Or something along those lines)

- "Louis" appears to be the name of the puppet, so I'll be referring to the puppet as such. Towards the end, when "Louis" is covered in flames, if you wear headphones, you can hear what sounds like children shouting his name. (Maybe the kids he was performing for?)

- At the end, there are dates appearing to the birthday song, this could mean that's when Matthias's birthday is.

Some theories and assumptions I'm making based on the video:

Theory #1 - I think a really cool idea would be that as a child (or an adult), Matthias helped with his parents shows (I'm assuming the guy holding Louis is his father) was used for Louis's show to give the allusion that the puppet doesn't have strings or something, essentially scamming the audience. This would explain why he hates Louis so much, having to always hear Louis's name being cheered instead of being given the credit he feels he deserves. It also explains why he wants to destroy the puppet, inevitably burning it.

Theory #2 - (I believe this theory to be more plausible) Matthias could genuinely be trapped inside the puppet, like his soul or spirit is embedded in it or something. This would explain why he is always "trapped in a nightmare" it would also explain why he looks so injured (his missing eye, torn shoulder, facial scars) maybe Matthias died and somehow (perhaps his father?) Was able to embed his soul into it. Also, this would be perfect considering that it was leaked that his ability is turning into his puppet. I mentioned before that the dates at the end could be his birthday, considering that the whole video mentions birthdays. But I also think that I could also be his death date. If this theory is true, this means that the date that pays first could be his birthday, and the second, his death date. One thing that his theory doesn't explain though, is how Matthias burns Louis, it could just be a metaphor, but it could also be literal.

Thank you if you read this far! If you noticed something in the video that I didn't, or have your own theories and interpretations, please reply!

Edit: Also I've heard that he's prolly connected to the Moonlit river park, and that he may have started the fire there

Edit #2: I also find it interesting that they don't show how he got his injuries, perhaps it'll be revealed in his deductions or letter (?)

Edit #3: For now it's safe to assume that the injuries were from the fire, unless the whole "soul embedding theory" is true

#matthias czernin #idv matthias #matthias czernin idv #idv puppeteer #idv #identity v #theory #puppeteer idv

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fishandships · 1 year

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so now we have FOUR versions of the "Manor Family Photo" - two with Orpheus; the one with just him and his parents and the one with Bane's parents, their faces obscured:

and two with Alice, one with normal eyes and the newest one with button eyes:

and all that confusion aside, i'm most intrigued by the significance of button eyes vs. regular eyes. we know it's significant who has them and who doesn't, and we've seen plenty of examples of this.

the earliest example we see of this contrast is in "Go Hunting"/"Da Capo", where Orpheus and "Memory" have normal eyes while Norton has button eyes (EXCEPT in his Hunter form/when he has Detention):

and then even more intriguingly, we got to see Luchino's eyes change the literal second he was bitten by the mysterious reptile, even before he became a Hunter:

see also Yhidra's followers permanently having one button eye and one normal eye, implying that this condition is related to Yhidra somehow.

but of course all the Hunters have normal (or relatively normal) eyes and all the Survivors have button eyes (in their shorts and in-game, although we've seen pre-game portraits where they also have normal eyes), and the family portraits and "Memory"/Alice show that there is a significance beyond that. one could argue based on Luchino's short that the difference is a particular connection being made, but Norton going back and forth between the two states, as well as the Survivors being seen prior to the Game with normal eyes, disproves that imho.

AND THEN THERE'S THIS.

according to NetEase, "humans" have normal eyes, and "puppets" have button eyes. but again, why do Yhidra's followers have one of each? why does Luchino become "human" when he is bitten by Yhidra's reptile? why does Norton only appear "human" sometimes?

NetEase what is the explanation???

#feel free to share your theories i've given myself plenty of headaches over this #idv #identity v #river's idv deductions #river babbles

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omgnorton · 19 days

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Similarities between Alice and American mcGee' Alice (also Alice madness returns included)

Ok look when u look at both chars in depth it's not similar but if u squint real hard it matches

Warning:I'm bad at writing these things

Ok first of all the artstyle in Alice's background story and cutscenes from Alice madness returns

Second both their families have been murdered and house goes up in flames

(OK NOT SUPER ACCURATE BUT I NEED U TO SQUINNNTT)

Third they both seek the truth and like someone that they trusted trying to make them forget their trauma from the massacre

Ok I don't have photos for Orpheus shhh I'm gonna reach the image limit

Fourth they both get "special treatment" in other words hella experimented on

I'm not a good essayer but I had a vision ok

I had to make u squint bc alice madness returns has very dark themes when it comes to story and lore and this is prob an Easter egg at most if it is one and won't be useful in predicting the story

#identity v #idv #alice deross #alice madness returns #idv journalist #crack theory

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mintytealfox · 5 months

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So we have Survivor Nort Decucts... And now we have Hunter Nort deducts... Put them together and what do we get?

You get a hella tragic story oh my GOSHHHH 😭😭😭😭

The set up will be: 1-Surv!Norton 1-Hunt!Norton -Then my thoughts 😏

1-Kindness: Is that an Olive Branch you just threw or... (A Good Deed: Norton, a Miner, Always visited the hospice and cared for all of the homeless old miners) 1-Shrewd 'Each step requires long-term planning' (Shrewd: An old, folded letter: Yellow and brittle. It was once abandoned in a dust corner. Signed, Benny.) -This is interesting 👀 These are both the first which automatically makes me think they are connected. I wonder if the Olive Branch thrown is from Benny? Or if its from Norton with the helping out with the people around Benny? Either way Benny ends up sending a letter to Norton. Maybe it saying something like 'want to meet up? I have stuff that might interest you' or something. Which adds to my -squinting- at Benny. Sounds like Norton was alone even though Benny was around all that time? hmmm

2-Diligence: The more effort, the more rewards? (Work Record: Norton Campbell is always the first to go down into the mines and the last to leave it.) 2-Lonely: 'The loneliness of separation must be endured on the climb up' (A coin: Stained by ash, footprints, tears, and dirt from the slums.) -Brings up the whole 'he had nobody' not even Benny vibe again -squints- Where was Benny during all of this? Seems like Norton would work and work and work so he couldn't feel or notice how alone he is. Like work was his only constant and 'friend' to keep himself from going nutty, but in the hours where work couldn't be used as a distraction he was miserable 😿Crying as he clings to what little he has...my gosh. That coin was so important to him man, I wonder if it was the last thing he got from his dad or something, cause he takes it everywhere and it pops up all the time in the trailer orz which means he never spent it just held onto it enough where you see TEAR STAINS ON IT! I CANNOT-- 😭😭😭😭

3-Efficiency: We need more trials. (A stack of Recommendation Letters: It can be seen that every one of Norton's previous employers appreciated his hard work and expressed their regret at being unable to keep him for long.) 3-Sophisticated 'wear a mask for the sake of survival' (A note on the back: What a detestable Person! Wagging his tail like a dog in front of the overseer!) -This one I can’t quite grasp yet -squints- is this referring to the back of the letter from Benny? Why write that there? Is Benny talking smack about Norton being so good at wearing a mask and pleasing the employers? Or is Norton talking smack about himself? Or is Norton pissed about others doing what he is doing? Wearing a mask to just survive or what the heck? 🤣 This one is still baffling me fr fr Oh wait a min....Seems like he had to jump job from job cause employers kept needing to fire workers, unable to keep him on as an employee. Likely becoming more jaded that him working hard and being good isn't working much for him since he keeps getting let go. Then seeing some fresh faced bushy tailed worker beside him would likely piss him off lol 'Why are you acting like that we are all getting fired anyways' Yea I super don't know with this one, I am juggling so many possibilities for this one.

4-Persistence: People won't be unlucky forever, right? (1-Page Note: There are 13 items listed. The first 12 appear to be names of places, and the last one is crossed out.) 4-Willful 'Those who persist will encounter more opportunities' (A page from a diary: I found that old man's notes. Now, it belongs to the one who lives long.) -He doesn’t sound all that fond of Benny pff like there is a hint of a dig there and/or him trying to convince himself that he is going to break out of here and live. Did he decide to set a plan in motion after getting the letter from Benny? Or was it after meeting with Benny?

5-Patience: Next time... (Diary: Tomorrow, I will go to the last place recorded by the old man. If there's still nothing, then I hope he...) 5-Gloomy 'The other side of Kindness and affability' (Abandoned junk: A tattered quilt, a chisel, an unsent letter, and a small piece of wrapped and hardened white bread) -This one I don't see much of a connection other than reference to old man and then there is that QUILT that could have possibly been the one Benny had made for Norton when the Dad was still alive. 'Then I hope he...' sounds hella ominous now lol -squints- Then Is this stuff found with Benny or was it found where Norton abandoned everything? Did Norton not send a letter? Maybe he meant to go back to get his things but never got to cause of the damage the explosion deed had on his mind ah. This one also gives me more questions than answers lol

6-Courage: The more dangers, the more opportunities. (A Geological Report: Part of the tunnel had been blocked by an unidentified object. One small mistake could cause the inner structure of the mine to collapse.) 6-Greedy 'Merely retaking what the heavens owe' (A map: Several crossed-out mines and a red circle.) -I am thinking Greedy and Gloomy should switch here cause Greedy goes well with the Patience with reference to 'go to the last place recorded' BUT what the frig is that 'unidentified object' -squints- Did Norton set that up?? Was that in the red circled mine? Was the place just found like that and Norton was like -cough cough- "whatever nothing is stopping me". Is this all just setting up how Norton was willing to go anywhere to find what he is looking for? hmmmm Willing to go where no man has gone before. Smash Greed and Courage together and ya thats what you get lol A desperate dude that has nothing to loose and only to gain if this all goes right. aahh

7-Alert: You need to be more cautious. (News: Due to the use of gunpowder and detonators, the era of simple rock drilling is coming to an end. 7-Arrogant 'Only by being bolder can you challenge destiny' (Torn paper: Record the blasting's depth, distance between holes… and the amount of explosives used.) -He uhhhhh, yea he definitely ends up using explosives lol. And its interesting that he made sure that everything was measured and counted in every way. Bro knew what he was doing 1000%. He had it all down to the second, the inch! He was careful alright, careful to make sure this goes perfect AH

8-Share: You need more helpers. (Mining Precautions: Theft of explosives is illegal and will be reported to the police once discovered.) 8-Hypocrite 'Important moments must be witnessed by companions' (A memo: Two bottles of the cheapest whine for those drunkards to wet their throats. And toss some fatty meat to the guard dog.) -BRO STOLE THE HELL OUTTA THEM EXPLOSIVES LOOOOOOOL AND HE DID IT IN THE MOST CLICHE WAY EVER AND IT WORKED IIMMMMM--LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL Like How many laws did he end up breaking by the end of all this?? LIKE GEEZZ And people are so used to him being kind and caring, none were the wiser! This Duddddeeeee!! He played the LONG GAME GOLLY

9-Wisdom: Smart people know when to hold on and when to let go. (An Accident Report: An explosion collapsed a mine on the outskirts of the city. It's suspected that the miners had mishandled the explosives, and the police expressed that there's little chance for anyone to survive) 9-Ruthless 'Exploding from deep within like an ignited explosive' (A page from a diary: Those journalists and policemen are gone. So it's just that simple?) -Bro played everything! The people, the system, the science, the math?? LIKE DUDE! If it was an accident, he wouldn't have survived. Norton had this planned to the T! Every 'i' was dotted and ever 't' was crossed, he knew he was surviving that explosion if everything went perfect like he was planning for OH MY GOSH. Bro playing chess while everyone else was LEARNING CHECKERS

10-Luck: That's only because the rest are just unlucky. (1-Page Case: Moderate burns to the face. Suspected to have been caused by direct exposure to excessive temperatures) 10-Numb 'Forget them and stay away from the dark underground' (A magnet: "Maybe it can keep me away from misfortune and darkness.") -He really didn't get much out of this did he. Like, all he got was trauma, burnt up, and a magnet. And boi is he clinging to that magnet with is all. His new coin; his new thing to cling to orz He really lies to himself a lot 😿He keeps finding out far too late that what he thought would change everything just made everything worse 🙃like yes everything changed, but changed for the worst. That tunnel vision hitting him so hard he never stops to go 'huh, this is a horrible idea, how would this possibly change my fate??' Its like he is trying so hard to convince himself that it was all worth it cause he got this crazy magnet orz gooooossshhhhhhhhhhhh Instead of using this as a wake up call it seems he is pressing on that sigma grind. Nothing like a plague doctor bird man monster to set things right LOOOOL

#bro has my head WHIRRRLLLLIINNGGGGG LOL #I feel like I forgot to add a load of other thoughts but i can't think of them rn #norton campbell #identity v #idv prospector #idv #idv norton #identity v norton #idv norton campbell #identity v prospector #idv fools gold #idv fool's gold #idv theory #identity v theory #ask #asks #minty answers #minty speaks

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