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keineahnung-ichhalt · 3 months

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Tatort Saarbrücken/Ace Attorney parallels

To celebrate less than two weeks until FdG airs, I finally took the time to proofread this text about parallels between Ace Attorney and Tatort Saarbrücken that I wrote almost a year ago and then somehow forgot to post. Enjoy!

I have recently noticed that there are a lot of parallels between the relationship between Miles Edgeworth and Phoenix Wright, and the story of Adam Schürk and Leo Hölzer, so I decided to write them down. I have no idea if there is any overlap between these fandoms at all, so probably no one else will care about this but whatever. This should go without saying, but this has spoilers for the first Ace Attorney game, and the first three episodes of Tatort Saarbrücken. I’m also aware that all of these overlaps are most likely a coincidence, but I wanted to compile them anyway, because I thought that it was really interesting, and maybe someone else will think so, too.

You may ask: Who are these people? I will try to summarise their stories first, and I will go into more detail later:

Let’s start with Phoenix and Miles: They were in the same class when they were nine years old and became friends after Phoenix was accused of stealing someone’s lunch money, when Miles was the first one (and together with Larry the only one) to stand up for him and defended him in the subsequent class trial. A few months after that, Miles’ father Gregory, a defense attorney, is murdered and Miles vanishes (he is adopted by Manfred von Karma and presumably moved to Germany, but Phoenix doesn’t know that). Years later, Phoenix reads a newspaper article about Miles becoming a prosecutor, and he decides to become a defense attorney to meet him and find out what happened to him.

They meet again when Miles prosecutes Phoenix’s second case as a defense attorney after not having seen each other for 15 years. After working two cases together, Miles is arrested as a murder suspect, and Phoenix defends him in court, even though no one else wants to defend him and he is almost the only one who is on his side. In this trial, he finds out that Manfred von Karma, the prosecutor in the current case, murdered Miles’ father 15 years ago after he got a penalty because of him. Then, he decided to adopt and mentor Miles, only to frame him for murder 15 years later as an elaborate revenge on Miles’ father. By uncovering this, Phoenix saves Miles from being convicted for murder.

Now to Adam and Leo: They became friends after Adam defended Leo from bullies at school. Adam’s father was physically abusive towards him and beat him regularly. One day, he catches Adam and Leo hanging out together and beats Adam up so badly that Leo thinks that he’s going to kill him, and decides to step in by hitting him on the head with a spade. Adam’s father falls into a coma, and Leo and Adam burn the garage to hide the crime. A few months after that, Adam vanishes, apparently leaving Leo to think that he has died.

Later, they both become police officers, Adam in Berlin and Leo in Saarbrücken. Adam returns to Saarbrücken, and they reunite after 15 years. After they worked on two cases together, Adam is arrested because he is suspected of murdering his father. Leo works hard to investigate his case, even though he technically isn’t allowed to, with their colleagues refusing to help him at one point and maybe even believe that Adam really is guilty. In the end, Leo manages to prove that Adam’s father killed himself and disguised his suicide as a murder to take revenge on Adam and Leo for putting him into a coma 15 years ago.

Sounds familiar? Here are all of the parallels and overlaps between those two stories that I can think of, maybe there are even more that I didn’t catch:

They met and became friends in school. Both pairs only became friends after one defended the other from bullies.

Shortly after something happens to his father, one of them disappears suddenly. Incidentally, in both cases, the one who disappears is the one who saved the other one from bullies.

Adam and Miles disappear after something happens to their father; Adams father falls in a coma, and Miles’ father is murdered

They both reappear after 15 years, during which the other one didn’t know anything about their whereabouts (Phoenix knew that Miles had become a prosecutor, but only a few years before they meet again).

Phoenix and Adam both altered their careers to see the other again; Phoenix starts studying to be a defense attorney after he learnt that Miles became a prosecutor s that they could meet again in the courtroom, and Adam accepted a transfer request back to Saarbrücken.

Both pairs meet again in their workplace, though Adam and Leo work together now, whereas Phoenix and Miles stand on opposite sides of the courtroom.

Not long after they reappear, both Adam and Miles are framed for murder by their abusive father.

The other one fights for them, even though they are (almost) the only person on their side, and everyone else is against them.

Both Adam’s father and Manfred von Karma have committed crimes in the past and framed someone else for it: Manfred killed Miles’ father and both framed the bailiff for it and manipulated Miles to blame himself; Adam’s father robbed banks with a friend, and one of them shot someone in one of these robberies. Said friend took the blame for both the robbing and the shooting, and never revealed the identity of his accomplice to the police.

Tatort Saarbrücken episode 3 is literally Turnabout Goodbyes, the fourth case in the first Ace Attorney game. Miles and Adam are both framed for murder by their father figure as revenge for something that happened in the past. Their respective partner takes their side and fights for them, ultimately revealing their innocence.

They are also both happen after they worked together for two cases.

Again, do I think any of this matters? No, but I realised that these parallels exist and had to get this out of my system. And I had fun writing this. If you notice even more parallels, please share them!

#I wrote most of this at like 3 am and that probably explains why I even wrote this in the first place #also the overlap between these fandoms is probably like ten people max #and half of them are place attorney members whom I forced to watch spatort in vc #tatort saarbrücken #ace attorney #spatort #my meta stuff #op keineahnung-ichhalt #narumitsu #hörk

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azalawa-scroggs · 6 months

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OKAY I guess I'm doing this. While working on my fic Ananke, which is an exploration of Manfred von Karma's perspective from DL-6 all the way to Turnabout Goodbyes, I've been having so, so many thoughts about him that I realised they didn't actually all hold into my fic. So I thought that maybe I should make them a tumblr piece. This thought has kinda just hovered at the back of my mind flaring from time to time, but eventually I decided to jump the gun. (No pun intended.) (That's a lie.)

So, um. Manfred von Karma character analysis time, I guess?

(Warning: this turned out to be LONG.)

The question I see pop up a whole lot when it comes to this guy is: Is he a good father? I'll be honest from the beginning: I'm not going to give an answer to that question here. What this is going to be is a somewhat larger examination of his character, which naturally does involve, in great part, his influence on Miles and Franziska. But I don't want to lock myself in the false binary of a yes/no question when there's so much else to talk about.

So I want to, sure, talk about him as a father a little, but mostly as a piece of the narrative, as a mentor, as a legacy-holder, and as a bringer of destiny - because he is not called Karma for nothing.

We first hear about him from Edgeworth in Turnabout Goodbyes, right as his trial is about to begin. Edgeworth seems utterly terrified of him prosecuting his case. "He is a god of prosecution, Wright, a god," he tells us. "He taught me what it means to prosecute. Imagine a prosecutor as ruthless as me, times twenty." Considering Edgeworth has been giving us a bit of trouble himself, between witness coaching and updated autopsy reports, that's quite the introduction.

And the man lives up to his reputation. He barely lets us align two words before interrupting us and scoffing at us, he's the first one to make the judge give us a penalty for pressing a testimony in the wrong place, when pressing testimonies had been such an important way of getting information up until then, he's dismissive and memeishly funny and a piece of shit and an absolutely great final boss... and then he also happens to be the culprit of DL-6. The case that has been underlying the whole game, and whose repercussions are going to be felt for the next two ones. Discovering him and taking him down is one of the best pay-offs ever after a masterful, game-long build-up.

Tumblr user trlsvn wrote a very thoughtful post in answer to an ask, making the point that von Karma is a story element before being a person. His primary purpose is to drive the plot to its conclusion, more than being psychologically developed as a character. Our antagonist up until now has been Edgeworth, but Edgeworth is being given a redemption arc, and so von Karma stands as the evil behind him.

The writers make the decision to humanize [Edgeworth], make him not just a character that represents a wrong idea but a person who has a backstory and some good in his heart [...]. This is where we start to question what exactly made him like this - this is why Miles gets a tragic backstory. He is meant to be explained, he is meant to be human, he is meant to be more. So Manfred von Karma becomes the answer. He is the reason, he is the influence, the part of Miles's life that made him like this and the part that he starts to oppose.

I recommend reading the post for more thoughts about his narrative role as a mirror to Edgeworth and a symbol of what he could have become. Von Karma is, like Redd White and later Damon Gant, the personification of the corruption of the courts that we've been fighting. He represents everything that Phoenix stands against, he is a willing and willful cog in the system that convicts people for crimes they did not commit. His metaphorical crimes, the innocents he sends to death row or to life in prison, all culminate and cristallise into an actual, legally defined crime: the murder of defence attorney Gregory Edgeworth, who represents - quite literally, in court - all those innocents.

Turnabout Goodbyes is possibly my favourite case in the entire series, because on top of having incredible pacing and wrapping up the first game wonderfully, it is so very dramatic. There is theatre in there; I may be getting ahead of myself in this but I find it Shakespearean. There is an atmosphere of supernatural mystery on the misty lake, with those two gunshots resounding in the silence and the ominous shape of "Robert Hammond" disappearing in the water without a trace. The slowly unveiled connection to DL-6, Edgeworth's recurring nightmare, the wound of the unsolved crime fifteen years festering, the guilt of patricide.

And, at the centre of it all, von Karma. The prosecutor who was Edgeworth's mentor and who has been making our job difficult every step of the way - it turns out he is behind everything. His overly complicated revenge scheme makes him something of an Iago. The murder, the blood on his hands, something of a Macbeth. The place he then took in Edgeworth's life, something of a Claudius.

The localisation also did something that I find very interesting with him: they made him German nobility. His Japanese name is Karuma Gou; "Karuma" is basically "Karma," and "Gou" according to the wiki could mean "great" or "excellent," or "fires of hell" or "the effect of karma." The localisation took back Karma, added the particle "von" to it and made the rest of his name basically a reference to Manfred von Richthofen, the Red Baron. Von Richthofen was a German pilot during WWI; he is famous for being basically undefeated for years, having a nearly unmatched victory record, and being brought down by a single bullet. Sounds familiar?

There's probably something to be said about Mei, Franziska in the original version, being a Japanese immigrant practising law in the USA burdened by her father's legacy into expecting impossible perfection of herself, but I am nowhere near qualified to make that point, so I am going to stick with the localisation from here on. Making the von Karmas nobility is interesting to me because the nobility as a social class is one of declining power. They once had power, and they still hold a certain social prestige, but their political power is in fact gone as the system that supported them is no longer in action, and most of them are losing their money or already ruined. As a reaction, many nobles (not all of them, but this is again about archetypes) stay among themselves, hold conservative values and sometimes somewhat of a superiority complex due to their education. Nobility's core value, by its very structure, is that of family, so although this was more the case at the time where they were the ruling class, there can be an emphasis on upholding one's legacy and being worthy of the family name. All of those elements suit the von Karmas extremely well.

And Manfred, the patriarch, holds a particular place in that family. He is defined by his power. He is the establishment, the system you're fighting against. He is the nepotism and the corruption, and he holds all the prestige that makes taking him down extremely difficult.

So von Karma holds a strategic place in the narrative as the literal and symbolic obstacle you must take down, but... when it comes to his motivations, we get nothing. We know, for a fact, that perfection is the most important thing to him. We know he was so shocked at receiving a penalty that he dissociated for at least five hours afterwards, and that plus the pain of a bullet in his shoulder was enough to drive him to kill a man. We know that he mentored Edgeworth, his enemy and murder victim's son. We know that fifteen years later, he framed Edgeworth for murder with the intention of falsely revealing Edgeworth as his father's killer, in a plot that was a significant risk to himself, and which ended up uncovering him as the true culprit the very day before he would have been free forever. Later on, we learn that he not only taught Edgeworth his work, but took him in and raised him, so that his daughter saw Edgeworth as a brother.

Put together, those aren't actions that are logical or make any sense. The whole thing is actually completely insane. And the game doesn't offer us the slightest explanation as to why he did them.

Most of the fandom runs on the idea that framing Edgeworth, presumably having him convicted for Hammond's murder, and compelling him into confessing to his father's murder afterwards was his plan from the very moment he decided to take Edgeworth in. That's not a groundless idea but it isn't actually canon. It's a theory that was formulated by Marvin Grossberg:

Maya: B-but how could von Karma know about Mr. Edgeworth's past like that? Even Mr. Edgeworth thought it was just a nightmare! Grossberg: Hmm... That, I do not know. Yet I do know that von Karma is both persistent... and a perfectionist. He may be seeking to satisfy a grudge against Gregory Edgeworth by hurting his son.

But von Karma himself gives us nothing.

Phoenix: Why did you take his son under your wing afterwards? The son of your most bitter rival? Karma: ... That, my dear attorney, is none of your business.

So it could be Grossberg was right and this really was a fifteen-year-old revenge plot in the making. It could also be that von Karma, a father himself, felt enough guilt at the thought that his impulsive crime had orphaned this kid that he decided he should take him in. Equally, there is the possibility he realised the third person in the elevator that day was a potential witness of his crime, and that he took Miles in to surveil and control him. Or it could be yet another thing - the point is, we do not know. The game gives us nothing.

(The theory I chose to explore in Ananke is a mix of several things: that it started with good intentions, then as he realised Miles was a potential witness, hatred and paranoia grew in him until they spiralled into framing him for murder as a desperate attempt to erase him from his life. But there are many possibilities.)

In fact, except for Edgeworth and Franziska's clear admiration of their mentor and father, the main games also don't give us anything about their dynamic with him. Edgeworth and he never interact directly in Turnabout Goodbyes, unless you count von Karma's breakdown, and after that he is in prison. Franziska first appears in the story after he's been locked up. To see them interact, we need to turn towards other media. There are little bits and pieces in interviews and official manga but the main media featuring them are two: Ace Attorney Investigations, the spin-off game starring Miles Edgeworth, and one episode of the Ace Attorney anime, Sound the Turnabout Melody.

And what's interesting is that von Karma's characterisation in those two pieces of media is at first glance completely different. It is my theory that this is the reason for this insane controversy around the character's parenting skills. They're not contradictory, as such, but it definitely takes some brain power in order to reconcile the two - and as such it opens wider possibilities of interpretation.

(Spoilers ahead for both cases.)

In Turnabout Reminiscence, the fourth case of Ace Attorney Investigations and a flashback case from Edgeworth's early career, von Karma acts as the main source of exposition. Edgeworth has just been assigned the very first case of his career by way of hasty reassignment after the previous prosecutor was compromised, and von Karma quizzes him to make sure he knows the facts of the case perfectly. Then of course, shenanigans happen, and by shenanigans I mean murder because this is Ace Attorney. Edgeworth investigates, he is joined by Franziska, and the case progresses.

Mostly, von Karma acts in a rather neutral way. He prompts Edgeworth into giving information, praises him when the information is correct, completes his information with some of his own, all peppered with various "Hmph!"s and "Bah!"s and other expressions of contempt, with a few quips full of dramatic irony here and there ("Criminals have a way of incriminating themselves, don't they?") and many, many demands for perfection - as well as internal oaths from Edgeworth to uphold it, bless him. He dismisses Franziska when she asks him if he will come to see her court debut ("... I'll consider it") and calls Edgeworth worthless when Edgeworth asks to do something Manfred isn't keen on seeing him do. In fact the whole exchange is pretty interesting in terms of the dynamic between the three of them:

Edgeworth: ...Sir, if I may, please allow me to continue with my investigation. Manfred: Whatever for? Edgeworth: I know that there is already a suspect in the murder of Mr. Faraday and Mr. Rell... ...however, there is not enough evidence to prove that it was he who committed the crime. I'd like to continue investigating in order to find the perfect proof of his guilt. Manfred: The perfect proof? Don't make me laugh! A worthless person like you has no right to claim such a thing as perfection! Edgeworth: .................. Franziska: .........Umm, Papa? Who do you think is the real culprit behind these murders? Manfred: .................. Franziska: Miles and I, we're competing to see who can find the real killer first. Plus, being able to investigate a real crime scene is a really rare opportunity. It would give us some real-life experience, wouldn't you agree? Manfred: ...Hmph! If you want to investigate this case that much, then do as you wish. Edgeworth: Then, you're allowing us to continue...? Manfred: In court, your top priority is to win, and a solid investigation is one of the keys to winning. We have to make sure you become recognized as a first-rate prosecutor, don't we? .........It wouldn't be very interesting otherwise.

To be noted that on that last line, Manfred is smirking.

While there are several reasons why he could be saying that, the smirk specifically, to me, establishes it firmly as a reference to his plan to frame Edgeworth for the murder of Robert Hammond in Turnabout Goodbyes.

All in all, his characterisation here is pretty much in line from what we saw of him in Turnabout Goodbyes and what we could infer from Franziska's words in Justice for All - in all his Sunday cartoon villain glory. But since this is a completely different case, his motivations for either taking Edgeworth in or framing him for murder are still a complete mystery.

Now let's turn to the anime. Surprisingly, it is an entirely different beast.

The sixth episode of the second season, Sound the Turnabout Melody, is a flashback case from when Miles was twelve years old. The anime is the first media that actually establishes that Edgeworth grew up in the von Karma household, as opposed to being merely von Karma's student and Franziska's (somewhat one-sided) rival. Miles is still struggling with the grief and trauma of his father's death, waking up from his nightmare alone and crying in a huge bed under a high ceiling. Franziska is desperate to cheer him up and make him smile. She convinces her father to take them to see one of their trials, then they go to the mall to have pancakes. During the outing, Miles's dog gets lost. There are shenanigans (murder-free this time) involving another lost dog, reward money and a radio message from Phoenix, after which Edgeworth corners a woman trying to steal the other lost dog for the reward money while von Karma is watching his budding prosecutorial skills from the corner. At the end of the episode von Karma cancels the orphanage application he'd been filing for Miles, ties a cravat around his neck, and Miles gives a bright and wide smile for the first time in the episode at the sign of acceptance, which makes Franziska quietly happy in the corner in turn.

If, while reading this, you were imagining a charming "slice of life" story, a feel-good little piece that establishes dynamics and in which nothing truly bad happens... you would be right. The episode is centred on Miles, showing him as he adapts to his new life and starts to think about his path in life. DL-6 is, of course, alluded to, but only in passing: Miles has the nightmare, he is shown questioning whether he really wants to follow in Gregory's footsteps, von Karma mentions to him after his trial that "if only your father were my opponent, I would have enjoyed myself a little." A rather baffling statement, considering the entire reason Gregory can't be von Karma's opponent is that von Karma ensured that himself, but I digress. In fact von Karma is only there in the background, although he too undergoes an arc of sorts, from being in the process of sending Miles to an orphanage to deciding to let him stay with them. We do, however, get a glimpse of his thoughts for the first time:

Von Karma: I didn't know myself why I decided to adopt that boy three years ago. But I think I caught a glimpse of the reason why today. It wasn't out of guilt. I simply wanted to see what path the pain I had taken on would take. That is my karma.

This is the translation of the subtitles, but the dubbed version is a little different:

I wanted to see where the path of pain would lead us, and how it would eventually develop. Karma has a strange way of showing itself...

What this actually means is quite mysterious, but fascinating. What does he mean by "the path of pain/the path the pain I had taken on would take?" Why is that his karma, if guilt didn't spur him to act? The words ask more questions than they answer.

All in all, factually it doesn't contradict anything previously established. Von Karma lies to the journalists about the fact that his win record doesn't matter to him, only bringing criminals to justice, because again if that had been the truth he would never have killed Gregory Edgeworth, but for the rest, it is all pretty consistent with the games.

But the gentle tone of the episode, especially if you're coming fresh off of "you and your father are my curse," is jarring. There are different ways to reconcile that. First of all, neither the anime nor Ace Attorney: Investigations are the mainline game series, and as far as I know the writing team of the main game series worked on neither of those two things, which probably explains the discrepancies. The canon status of the anime especially is arguable. Secondly, both of those pieces of media have their ambiguities. When it comes to the anime, a friend over Discord told me that to them it read like "the honeymoon phase in an abusive cycle," with as evidence the pointed comments about Miles's father which can be read as derisive and willfully undermining, Miles's overall downcast attitude around the von Karmas, and some "noose imagery" in the scene where von Karma ties the cravat around his neck.

That interpretation, of course, is only that; it is in no way canon. In fact, you could absolutely make the opposite case of taking the cute, heartwarming tone of the anime at face value, and arguing that it is in the Investigations case that the tonal dissonance resides. I don't have a source for this except the hearsay of Japanese-speaking friends, but the Japanese word which was translated into "worthless" in AAI would apparently be less harsh in the original version, being closer to meaning "amateur," or “a person without experience.” (It is to be reminded that in Turnabout Goodbyes, von Karma called Edgeworth “an amateur and a romanticist” when talking about him with Phoenix, so that could absolutely be a reference to his characterisation in that case.) And aside from that line, von Karma's behaviour towards Miles is overall neutral.

Those are the two most extreme interpretations, but naturally there are many ways in-between to read those two pieces of media. My point is that the range of the characterisation is actually very wide. Various manga, interviews, promotional material travel in that gap: between victory family karaoke sessions on the tune of My Way, joke strips where Phoenix manages to make von Karma burst into tears by mentioning his daughter leaving the nest, and Edgeworth being roped by his mentor into being a chauffeur for an impromptu shopping trip on his day off, the different insights into the creators' imagined dynamics of the family do not help paint a more cohesive image.

And we still have no answer regarding his motivations.

What we do have is the perspective of his wards on how he shaped them into who they are today. His influence on them is felt even years after his downfall, something they aren't shy about; but they aren't exactly open about their feelings about him, either.

It's obvious for Franziska, of course, whose mentions of the von Karma name in Justice for All might as well be a drinking game. Interestingly, though, when it comes to her feelings for her father himself, she is remarkably guarded.

Maya: Why do you keep giving Nick the evil eye!? It doesn't matter if you prove the defendant guilty tomorrow... Nothing will be able to bring your dad back! von Karma: ... My... Dad? You must mean the esteemed Manfred von Karma. Maya: Of course! Your dad! I know you miss him... von Karma: Enough out of you... One more word and you'll get a mouthful of whip. Now. When did I ever bring up my papa's name in this, or any other conversation...?

It's only to Edgeworth that she confesses about how much her family legacy weighs on her in the post-credits scene of the same case.

von Karma: Shut up! You don't understand a thing! You can't possibly understand what it means to be "Manfred von Karma's daughter"! Edgeworth: Franziska... von Karma: So many expectations from everyone around me... Expectations I must fulfill! I'm expected to win no matter what. And failure? Such a thing is not an option for me! My father was a genius. There's no doubt about that! But... But me... I'm no genius. I've always known that. Edgeworth: ... von Karma: But I... I had to be one. I had to.

(Franziska beloved. You became a criminal prosecutor at 13 years old. Kindly shut up about not being a genius <3)

In contrast, this is what she has to say about being the daughter of Manfred von Karma in Bridge to the Turnabout:

Judge: V-Von Karma, you say…? Perchance, you wouldn't be of any relation to the legendary prosecutor Manfred von Karma? von Karma: … Legends are a thing of the past. I am a Von Karma. That is all.

And then she also has a few lines about it in Ace Attorney Investigations 2. The lines are ostensibly about another character's struggle, but you know they refer to her own.

From The Forgotten Turnabout:

Franziska: However... one must be able to accept the mistakes of their father... ...no matter how much they may look up to him...

And from The Grand Turnabout:

Franziska: "Going up against your own father..." It won't be easy.

Regarding Edgeworth, he is about as quiet about it. He briefly says this upon his return in Farewell, My Turnabout:

Edgeworth: A lot of things may have happened, however Manfred von Karma was still my mentor. And a "perfect win record" is proof of a Von Karma.

He also has this conversation with Ernest Amano in The Kidnapped Turnabout:

Ernest: Ah... Seeing that badge reminds me of Manfred. Now HE was one fine prosecutor, the best of the best. Edgeworth: ...Yes, I can't disagree with you there. Ernest: Hmm... I sense that you don't really want to talk about him. Edgeworth: How I feel about him... It's hard for me to be truthful about that with another person. Ernest: Your hard countenance... I don't know what you're thinking or feeling... ...but mark my words, I think you are Manfred's true successor. I really do. Edgeworth: ..................

When it comes to Edgeworth and his complicated double legacy especially, I really really recommend this post by lorillee, a long meta piece on that specific topic in Ace Attorney: Investigations 2 which gave me a lot of food for thought.

What we see here in this whole load of quotes is that Miles and Franziska have slightly different, yet still very similar ways to talk about about Manfred. Both of them readily admit to his skill as a prosecutor and don't shy away from the way he influenced them. However they also do not open up at all when it comes to their actual feelings about him. Edgeworth puts that reluctance into words in his own thoughts; we unfortunately aren't privy to Franziska's, but the way she outright refuses to talk about her experience, unless it is a snide reference made about another's struggle, makes it clear she is in the same situation.

I don't really have any clever observation to wrap up this already much too long post. But it is really interesting to me how deep an influence on the narrative this character has, despite a limited amount of appearances in the series and practically non-existent insight into his own motivations. Miles's and Franziska's perspectives on him are a fascinating exploration of the themes of family, of legacy, of how even the worst betrayal by the most awful criminal doesn't cut their influence away from you; how even gods of prosecution remain, in the end, human, and keep a very human place in the life of the people close to them.

#Ace Attorney #Manfred von Karma #Miles Edgeworth #Franziska von Karma #meta #perfection is the norm #phew that stayed in the draftbox a loooong time #ugh. I give up on the formatting #Aza talks too much #(seriously this is so wordy)

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missamericadog · 7 months

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on my way home from the gym i had a really stupid thought of "hey it's been 7/8 years since aa7 so what if capcom reflect that by doing another fucking time skip" i then tried to roll with this bad idea and flesh it out a bit and see what it could look like

so here i present to you my version of the worst ace attorney 7 pitch in da whole wide WORLD !!!

[SPOILERS FOR AA4 AND AA6, NOT REALLY AA5 CAUSE UH NOTHING TO REALLY SPOIL I GUESS LOL?]

come 2024 it will have been 8 years since AA6 so fuck it, 7 years time skip (Again 🙄🙄🙄) to reflect that time

introducing Ace Attorney 7, or Justice & Cykes: Ace Attorneys

Apollo has been in Khurain for the past 7 years restructuring its legal system, meanwhile Phoenix has retired from law to do the same with Edgeworth (who's stayed as Chief Prosecutor) in Japanifornia. He's still acting as a mentor to Thena and is still in charge of the WAA, but doesn't take cases himself any more. Him and Polly don't really keep in touch as much as they should, as both are too busy

maybe Apollo gets homesick tho, or Phoenix offers him his old job back or what, but either way a 31 year old Polly moves back to Japanifornia to be a lawyer there again

case 1 is a tutorial for two reasons:

1) apollo hasn't done law in this country in nearly a decade

B - phoenix has reworked the WHOLE system (i.e. introduced two fun mechanics from GAA)

it should be a simple case, but the problem is that this new system nick introduced fucking baffles polly: why does he now have multiple witnesses on the stand at once? and why is there a jury system? (does this take away from GAAs unique identity? idk)

he solves it btw ofc he does, with help from his professional magician assistant trucy

at the end of the case phoenix calls polly & trucy to his office and tells them they're siblings

cut to case two, where we are focused on an Athena case (possibly set before 7-1? so as to keep the weighty cliffhanger as long as possible). trucy is assistant for this too. fuck it. she's assistant for most/all of the game. trucy deserved better in 5 and 6, capcom.

reintroduction to investigation segments, which remain unchanged. athena, now mid 20s, is a lot more confident and independent, though maybe still needs to ask for help and advice from nick more than she'd like. solves a two day case just fine, even with new prosecutor (maybe Sebastian Debeste? or a rookie who has a similar character arc to us in previous games)

case 3 back to apollo, and him and trucy are probably taking the news itself well but not the fact it took OVER A DECADE FOR NICK TO TELL THEM, and it doesn't help that nick just pins it to him being too busy and forgetting lol

either way a case has come in so the two of them take it to distract themselves but there's gonna be a little awkward tension in the air throughout especially whenever they visit thena and nick

solve it

case 3 back to thena, and her journey of independence & also now dealing with Wright family drama lol

solves case

case 4 back to polly, who's still miffed but is trying to be an adult about it

solves case

case 5 nick is suspected of murder, and trucy is witness so Apollo and Athena work together to solve it, with alternating trial days or maybe one leading investigation and the other court

there'll be a moment where apollo can't help for whatever reason and this is athenas big breakthrough indepdence moment as she solves this bit alone

also guest prosecutor franzy von karma; reveal she was the mentor of previous prosecutor (maybe on the bench with her? why has this not been a thing other than dgs3-3 capcom.)

solves it's not nick or trucy, all of them gain confidence within each other and themselves

game over everyone's happy

#ace attorney #aa7 #ace attorney 7 #aj spoilers #aa4 spoilers #aa6 spoilers #soj spoilers #apollo justice spoilers #spirit of justice spoilers #ace attorney spoilers #phoenix wright #apollo justice #trucy wright #athena cykes

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characteroulette · 7 months

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A study on prosecutors -- (previous) (next)

Let's get into the weeds of the Investigations games.

Judging any of the prosecutors in the Investigations games, Edgeworth included, is a difficult thing to do. We're not privy to their style of prosecuting, after all, since the whole game takes place outside of any trials. I guess this shows how much stock I take from said trials, but it is a core mechanic to the Ace Attorney series, so I feel justified on that one. Judging a prosecutor from half of the usual info makes things a bit of a harder sell to me, they really missed an opportunity to get us into the courtroom properly.

But I digress. Let's go down the list.

First off, Jacques Portsman. He's a first case villain for sure, as we know he committed the crime and his over the top performance is really grating. I kinda never believed him when he claimed to be a prodigy or some up and coming star because of that, though. Like, sir, you're a first case murderer. You're not that hard to crack, especially as the game has to tutorialise everything for us.

His being pretty awful is kinda the point, however. Here is one of many prosecutors whom Edgeworth has to work alongside in the office. He's as corrupt and ruthless as anyone else, he's another in the many who believe that winning and making a name for themselves is all that matters in the world of the law. He's a symptom of the way the law operates in this world, far from the cause. That's at least one fascinating aspect to him.

It's yet another show of how Manfred could have gotten away with his forty year streak without anyone so much as batting an eye at it.

Speaking of, let's dig into Manfred a bit deeper, seeing as he's the only other prosecutor we really meet in the first game. (Faraday gets like one line before he dies, so I can't really count him.) He's acting Edgeworth's superior here, no matter how much Edgeworth refers to him as his mentor. This is a disconnect that always struck me about what we get to see of their interactions; Edgeworth really does respect Manfred from the bottom of his heart. He sees Manfred as someone who helped him find structure and strength in his life after what happened to his father. But Manfred doesn't return that respect at all. Really, a lot of how Manfred speaks to Edgeworth here reads as condescending, and that's before he goes off about how worthless Edgeworth is. His promise of an hour of recess is also one that stood out to me; he expects Edgeworth to partake in some of the dirtier tactics that he (and Franziska) might. He's leaving that option open for Edgeworth to do whatever necessary to get his guilty verdict, to prove himself a perfect von Karma. It doesn't end up happening because we have to preserve continuity -- I mean, the trial gets cancelled due to murder shenanigans, but it's a detail that's always stood out to me.

We get a lot more intriguing a look into Manfred's character in the second Investigations game. He adores his wife to the point of proclaiming her the best chef in the world. That's weirdly humanising for him!! And he loves his daughter, too, even if he's not very good at showing it. He may be a wicked man, but it wasn't actually by his own hand that he had to tamper with evidence. Hell, maybe that's why Gregory was able to call him out. (He forged a WHOLE BODY and that'll forever be hilarious to me.) (Well, an autopsy report. Same difference.) What I would GIVE to be able to see the actual trials between Gregory and Manfred, with Gregory struggling to find any hold and Manfred acting composed while also hoping his evidence doesn't get called out. It had to be one hell of a battle, Gregory isn't one to go down without a fight.

Anyway, Byrne Faraday. I figure I might give a bit of a thought on him from what we can extrapolate.

Kay loved him dearly and he was definitely doing his best by her. That promise notebook they had between them is so sweet, the man was trying his best to be a good dad. He had some level of corruption, though, considering he was one foot to the Yatagarasu. Sure, it was more for justice than our usual prosecutor fare, but he was still cheating to get guilty verdicts. Even if his corruption swung the other way than where we're used to seeing, it shows he was willing to get his hands dirty for his justice. It shows his lack of faith in the legal system he was a part of, another symptom to this dark age. (As an aside, these two games are the true lead-in to Dual Destinies. Not Apollo Justice. You want the themes and points of DD to ring stronger or truer at all? Play the Investigations games before going into DD, it'll all make more sense that way. Or, as much sense as it can make.)

It is fun seeing how much they have to strain to get us to like Faraday, though. At least, I feel he's supposed to be likeable, since they focus on him being a good dad and not the fact that he was working behind the scenes to help rig his trials. A perfect contrast to Manfred, whom the games don't even try to make likeable since we all know what becomes of him in the end. And yet they put in just enough to get you to see him as less a monster than you might have. (The Inga solution! It works on me every time!!)

Also funny that there are only two new prosecutors introduced in the first Investigations game and they're both basically bit parts. Because then we get into the second game and meet our more traditional opposing prosecutor, Sebastian Debeste.

Ahh, Yumihiko Ichiyanagi. A mess of a child. Starts out pompous and believing he's always right because that's what everyone around him is forced to say to him. He's a nepotism baby, his dad's the Chief of the Prosecutorial Investigation Committee, after all. He's a brat and a pest and he's also so stupid you find yourself wondering how the hell he managed to get his badge in the first place.

Well, this is a world of dumbasses, you suppose. How else could simple logic be a superpower? You move on and concern yourself more with whom you suspect to be the true villain pulling the strings here, Justine Courtney.

Her subtle pushes and buttering Sebastian up are near sinister. It's like she's using him as a mouthpiece at times, a way to get her own goals and work done here. She wants to seemingly destroy Edgeworth, nearly singularly focuses on this goal at times, and you can't help but find pity for Sebastian being caught up in her scheme. He's seventeen and it shows far more on him than it does on Klavier or Franziska. He's floundering while everyone simply congratulates him on a job while done, unable to save him from those depths, that darkness.

What is the point of using this boy as a smokescreen, you wonder. How can parading him around be worth any of his foolishness?

Then we meet Blaise and realise, oh. He really was just a pawn in the grander scheme. He was a way to get closer to the true villain. He was merely getting in the way, being a foolish and stupid child, of everyone's true goals.

Franziska whips him and he doesn't even protest. He shouts out in pain like everyone else, but he never once tells her to stop. He just takes it, doesn't think of his usual profession of being the best.

He just takes it.

From that small detail alone, I couldn't help but immediately worry for him.

Justine shows her hand at last. Even if she had come to care for Sebastian, she's out to strike Blaise down no matter what. Blaise is the one behind that one strike against Manfred's reputation, he's behind this whole smuggling ring, he's everyone's antagonist as we all converge on this one point. Sebastian tries to stick up for his father, but even that lends to our favour. He gets in the way once more, he slips up just enough to give us what we need, and his father reveals to him in the cruellest possible way that everything he thought he's accomplished has been a total lie. He couldn't even be a worthy pawn to his father. He's a failure, through and through.

And Edgeworth gets to be the one to help him stand back up on his own two feet.

I cannot stress enough just how excellent an idea it was to have our final logic chess game be against Sebastian. How we have to use it more as a way to break through all that despair and anguish instead of for our own gain. Edgeworth being able to be a voice of strength for Sebastian, being able to offer this boy you thought your enemy for most of the game a spot of hope, is so good. It's exactly taking the lessons behind what made Edgeworth himself so good in the first game, at least in my opinion.

And we get to see bits of an actual trial!! We get to play assistant as Sebastian stands up to his father in one of the most hype scenes ever!! I'm so proud of this fail boy who came such a long way. A crybaby who, with the help of those actually willing to back him up and show him the right way instead of propping him up with false praise, is able to stand his ground and prove his father the villain he is.

He breaks that chain of legacy tying so many of our Ace Attorney characters down. Holy shit we were robbed this game, actually, huge shout out to the translation team who allowed us all to experience this cathartic moment.

#Momo writes stuff #aai1 #aai2 #aai2 spoilers #Ace Attorney Investigations #Ace Attorney Investigations 2 #jacques portsman #byrne faraday #Manfred von Karma #Sebastian Debeste #Yumihiko Ichiyanagi #Justine Courtney #Spoilers #Essay time for Momo #Blaise Debeste #Woof #I love Sebastian so much...#Lot to get through here

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beevean · 7 months

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barok van zieks, genshin asougi, mael stronghart, seishiro jigoku and herlock sholmes go

5) Jigoku. I like him, but I haven't thought much of him lol. The twist caught me by surprise, that's for sure, and it's fun to rewatch G1-1 and G1-2 after you know his deal. Yeah I wouldn't mind exploring his relationship with Stronghart ;)

4) Stronghart. What brings him down is how blatantly evil he is ever since you lay your eyes on him, and how GAA2 shifts from blaming British society to pinning all of the evils that happened to the cast on this dude. I think you could have done more with his gimmick of time tied with his control freakness. He was fucking terrifying as a judge though, and he has no question the best breakdown in the series, so that saves him :P

3) Asougi. Again, not a character I thought much of (I'm more of a Klint fan lmao), but he's cool! He was a sadly realistic victim of systemic xenophobia, but through and through an honorable samurai who cared deeply about both van Zieks brothers. It's also kind of funny that he, of all people, indirectly founded the Karuma/von Karma family :P

2) Sholmes. Yeah, count me in as one of the many who was won over by his zaniness lmao. I was honestly shocked to discover that he too had his shadier side ("Great detectives are wont to lie"). By the end, you almost get the feeling that a good chunk of his silliness was deliberate to "mentor" Ryuu :)

1). Barok. My favorite character in the series, very close to Ryuu :) yeah yeah I know all about the controversy and I have my feelings about it, but I don't know what to tell you, I love his flair (now that I've played CV his Dracula-esque mannerisms are even more hysterical), how under his theatricisms and unpleasant attitude he's one of the best and most honest prosecutors in the series, how he grows to be interested in Ryuu, how much he vocalizes his respect by the end, the unfairness of his backstory, and also best theme.

#ace attorney #the great ace attorney

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box-dwelling · 8 months

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I'm sorry but the Thermis storyline is absolutely fascinating. Means and Courte being the opposite side of the Edgeworth and Phoenix vs Von Karma and Gant philosophy (also arguably the gavin brothers dichotomy) is a great dynamic to explore. This is like a fundamental overarching theme of the series and I like seeing how it's developed over the 7 year gap. Because it makes fucking sense! One of the best renowned Defense attorney's was accused of faking evidence but still fundamentally getting good results that were just and one of the most renowned prosecutors was revealed to have been using his dirty tactics to get unjust one's. It makes sense that Means would think Phoenix would be someone to have his students to aspire to be like, even if he doesn't understand what Phoenix's actual methods are. And it makes sense that Courte would want to distance herself as much as possible from the von karma methodology and teach her students to be different and Klavier is a shining example of just that. The time lines even line up. Klavier would have been 14 during PWAA so of course the ripple effects of that would affect him and his mentor.

#ace attorney #dual destinies #turnabout academy #phoenix wright #klavier gavin #professor means #constance courte #dark age of law

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ziskandra · 1 year

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Please tell me about "Manfred - Character study about adopting Miles"

Many years ago, someone on the Ace Attorney kink meme prompted for a fic where Manfred von Karma actually treats Miles with kindness when he brings him into his home (because, among other things, the later tragedy of finding out his mentor had murdered his father is so much more heart-breaking.

I might have mentioned this before but sometimes I just get ideas for lines and slap them into a document for … later: a lot of my fics that are written over a longer scale are often half-written scenes or sentences that get strung together over months or even years.

This is one of those documents: there’s not really much coherent plot yet, but the main gist of the vibes of the scenes in it are basically that even though Manfred is a rigid man with high expectations, Miles actually really appreciates those qualities in him: he got tossed around a bit in the months after his father’s death, and he’s happy to have some stability!

There’s also basically so things I want to explore in terms of socioeconomic class: the von Karmas are a family with a lot of intergenerational wealth whereas I tend to view the Edgeworths as having been of less extravagant means. Miles saw his defense lawyer dad work hard and struggle against the structural inequities of the legal system, a system that ultimately failed him.

And then Manfred swoops in and takes him under his wing and gives him structure and purpose and a much more comfortable life and Miles adapts to that life, even as he’s still haunted by grief and guilt over the death of his father. Manfred isn’t warm but he cares and provides and does all the things a parental figure is meant to do…

… and then he frames him for murder.

I’m also forever fascinated by Manfred’s motivations for deciding to frame Miles for the murder: did he somehow think this was the best way to tie up loose ends? Did he initially take Miles in because he did feel guilty, then over the years began to fear and/or resent him? Did Miles start reminding Manfred too much of Gregory, the man Manfred had killed, and he couldn’t live with seeing the ghosts of his past in his house anymore?

I think there is a whole bunch of complicated factors at play, and I would love to untangle them someday. What I don’t buy is the concept that he had this murder plot planned from the outset, because raising someone for fifteen years is absolutely ridiculous, even for someone as dramatic as Manfred von Karma.

I’m not sure if there’s an actual finished story in here somewhere, but in the interim I will continue chisel away at it while the mood strikes me!

[WIP asks]

#asha answers #mxelsifer #manfred von karma #asha meta #aa meta #thank you for the ask!#wip ask meme

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doctorsiren · 6 months

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So I said this in the tags of my last post, but then I went wacky and doodled up some pages of this other AU idea that stemmed from the idea of that comic I did

In this AU, Miles goes to Diego Armando’s office a few weeks after the Fawles trial. There is no cocky, arrogant, or smug air about him like there was during the trial and instead he seems really shaken and nervous. Diego’s like “hey what’s wrong?” And Miles is quiet but then says that he needs help. He tells Diego that he can’t get the image of Fawles’s suicide out of his head and that he has no one he can talk to about this. Diego asks about Miles’s mentor, but Miles says that there’s absolutely no way he could ever go to his mentor for help with emotional stuff because it would show “weakness” and he also isn’t comfortable with von Karma. To make a long story short (because I’ve thought so much about this), Miles ends up pleading with Diego to protect him from von Karma just in case he goes after him for switching sides to be a defense attorney. He knows that von Karma will see him as weak and a traitor for switching teams after a single case, but Miles can’t be someone he’s not. Diego points out that Miles seems to be trying to be who von Karma wanted him to be. So he asks Miles what he wants to be, and Miles responds by saying he wants to be his dad (just like in my 1985 animatic 😭).

So Miles decides to renounce prosecution. He rips off his cravat and throws it in the garbage in Diego’s office and declares that he’ll become a defense attorney. He also asks Diego is he could be his mentor to help him in both being better at defense law and also just being better with interacting with people.

He joins the Grossberg Law Offices and works alongside Mia and Diego to gather evidence on Dahlia Hawthorne, as he now too believes that she has done terrible things.

After Diego is poisoned, Miles freaks out because people just keep dying or getting hurt around him and it scares him. (Oh…baby boy just wait until Mia dies too-)

He takes the case to defend Phoenix, gets TERRIFIED when Phoenix eats the poison necklace, and then at the end, Phoenix was like “oh wow! You’re a defense attorney now?? Lmao when did that happen??” Bc he had been too busy simping over Dahlia. But Miles tells him that he should still pursue law so that they could work together and also so that Phoenix’s law classes and studying wouldn’t have gone to waste. So Phoenix becomes a lawyer and works with Miles and Mia at the Fey & Co Law Offices until she dies and then it becomes Edgeworth & Co Law Offices because he had been a lawyer for longer.

I like the idea that in this AU, Phoenix and Miles obviously have huge crushes on each other, but these idiots still refuse to acknowledge or admit it <3

Also :((( when Diego wakes up, he still goes on his whole antagonist arc as Godot, and Miles refuses to tell Phoenix the truth about who he is. See, I also like the idea that in this AU, Nick and Miles are still as cagey with their past and truths as they are in normal AA

As you can see, I am perfectly normal !! I think about ace attorney a very normal amount!! 🤭

#doctorsiren #ace attorney #ace attorney au #miles edgeworth #diego armando #mia fey #phoenix wright #feenie #bratworth #narumitsu #wrightworth #prosecutor godot #maya fey #iris fey #franziska von karma #defenseworth au #ace attorney fanart #doodle pages #art #digital art #my art #fanart #procreate #what should I call this AU??? for some reason i can come up with really good ones for other fandoms but I have a hard time with AA AU names #I mean one of my AUs is literally called ‘silly little monster AU’ soooo #he looks way too much like Milo Thatch /pos #I AM NORMAL!!! HEHEHE #dude how many AUs have I made in the past few days?? like 4 counting this one? and not counting SLM AU bc that started a month ago #for funsies!! we can combine this AU and the Godot AU I made and so everyone can be happy!!!! 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥#<- I live in a constant state of denial /j

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alynnl · 1 year

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Ace Attorney: Investigations thoughts

Now that I’ve finished it...

I have so many thoughts about Edgeworth’s first spin-off game it’s unreal. In no particular order...

Detective Badd gets the honorary nickname of “Detective Baddass” from me. He deserves it. (Also the idea that he’s basically Gumshoe’s mentor is incredibly awesome. “Never lose your detective’s spirit.” Aaaaaa.)

I would have been interested in seeing Byrne Faraday and Tyrell Badd being a capable prosecutor-detective duo working on more cases.

Wow, Manfred von Karma showed up in the flashback case and managed to be even more awful! ... Wait. That’s not exactly breaking news.

For being a prosecutor, Edgeworth sure spends a lot of time arguing in people’s defense. He’s defended Kay, Maggey, Gumshoe, Larry and even Franziska throughout this game.

Edgeworth’s inner monologue lets me know that he’s not nearly as composed as he appears to be in court. He’s also just some guy, only with a fancier suit than Phoenix Wright.

Giving Edgeworth a moral dilemma (whether or not to use illegal evidence to go after someone who appears to be above the law) is a great internal conflict to give him.

Gumshoe is at his absolute best in the Turnabout Ablaze investigation segments getting crucial evidence and being moral support, and I am here for it!

Having Edgeworth’s rival, Shi-Long Lang be a good person at heart and not the final culprit is honestly very refreshing.

Speaking of Lang, I wonder if he’s got any relatives waiting for him back home. I love the idea of him maybe having a mother or grandmother who positively dotes over him and treats him like a kid (no matter how grown up he is.)

The “gang’s all here” moment in the finale was just wonderful. Edgeworth has so many people who will always come through for him. It’s heartwarming to see. He’s come a long way from being lonely and lost post-Turnabout Goodbyes.

I will be honest with y’all. The battle vs. Alba at the end dragged out forever. He just would not give up! I was almost wishing there was a button I could press to start “trial by combat” where we could settle the whole thing with a duel instead. Alas, Ace Attorney isn’t and never will be a fighting type series. Only evidence will do. (But seriously, I hated Alba’s testimonies.)

The ending montage showing everyone! I was wondering if I’d see one, since Investigations is under a different writer than the original trilogy. But there was one and it was splendid. To me, the credits sequence with the “where are they now” segments for all the different side characters - this was very much in the spirit of the original trilogy and I appreciate this touch.

The last touch carried over from the original trilogy is this:

The finale case photo. Our snapshot of happiness after so many mysteries solved, and justice served. It’s a great note to end on.

My journey through the Ace Attorney series will continue with Investigations 2: Prosecutor’s Path when I take it up next!

Until then, see y’all around! You better believe I will be deep diving into the tags for even more fanart of the characters I’ve come to know and love.

#Ace Attorney: Investigations ~ Miles Edgeworth #Lynn Plays video games #Ace Attorney series #thoughts and feelings #A great experience for sure

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askaceattorney · 5 months

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Dear Gumshoe-letty-fan,

Chief Mod Edgeworth: Agreed. Klavier got the short end of the stick when it came to his character. Though, he’s not the only one. Franziska also lost her father to prison and has to carry a damaged reputation because of it. If we were to go by location, which is in Japan, there’d have been great shame upon the von Karma’s to the point where Franziska would only be seen as the daughter of a criminal. Thankfully, she did develop from that, but I believe there is a huge character arc missing from Franziska and one I think a lot of fans wish to see.

Though the one I’d have to choose that had the saddest things happen to him or her, it would be Maya. She’s lost her sister, then was arrested for it. That’s got to be traumatic for her. I don’t know what I’d do if I lost my sister and found myself convicted for her murder in one day, let alone five minutes. I mean the girl was so traumatized that she fainted and Phoenix had to carry her to the couch. Then, to find herself arrested because her name was on the receipt her sister supposedly wrote? It doesn’t even end there. A year later, Maya gets arrested again because her Aunt wants to get rid of her to make way for Pearl to be the new Master. Morgan Fey had raised Maya throughout most of her childhood. To find out that someone who is supposedly a second mother to you wants you arrested and possibly dead has to be one of the most dreadful things to swallow, not to mention a serious betrayal. And, just when you think it couldn’t get any worse for Maya, her Aunt makes a pact with her daughter Dahlia WHILE IN PRISON to set up a plan to trick Pearl into channeling Dahlia to kill Maya. Not only is that traumatizing for Pearl, but that is an extra burden on Maya from her end. That’s not counting her mother being killed because she was channeling the very person that was trying to kill her and her sister’s fiancé had to step in to save her. This is just the trilogy. I haven’t even got to the Inmee’s and that whole debacle.

To this day, I do not know how Maya could move on from that. Most people would be suicidal at this point. Yet, she’s able to pick herself back up and move on. I’m convinced Phoenix and Pearl are the reason, but I cannot understand how Maya can go through all that shit without developing some form of PTSD or Depression. It’s one thing to think you killed your parent, but to have your own family try to murder you is another kind of trauma I would not wish on my worst enemy. If I had to choose between Edgeworth’s and Maya’s backstory for anyone, I’d choose Edgeworth’s because he at least can move on knowing he didn’t kill his father and that his mentor is a bitch. I’d like to ask anyone how they’d be able to move on from knowing their secondary mother and Aunt tried to kill them over a leadership position? Edgeworth barely was able to move on from DL-6. How Maya was able to move on from all this shit is a godsend.

Co-Mod: That’s a tough one, but for me, I’d say it’s a tossup between Maya and Athena. Both of them lost their mothers and were apparently abandoned by their fathers, but unlike Maya, Athena had to actually see it happen during her childhood (and it sure wasn’t a pretty sight), which was so traumatic for her that she didn’t even remember most of it until years later when she had to confront it in order to prove her innocence, and she even had to face the possibility that it might have been her who committed the murder on top of that. To not only come out of that okay, but to have a constant can-do attitude afterward is nothing short of an incredible feat.

A close second would be Simon Keyes, who developed trust issues at a young age and came to believe that even the law was against him. As cruel as he became, he was someone in need of saving, as Edgeworth pointed out, and that rescue didn’t come until the very end. Better than nothing, but it’s still hard for me not to feel for him, or for anyone with that level of mistrust.

Dear Charicla,

Chief Mod Edgeworth: I’ve never used it, so I wouldn’t know.

In any case, I’ve already decided to delete any letters that look or read like what that troll had been putting out. Even now, they’re trying to sneak in letters from Hotti under different Anonymous names. Thankfully, it’s easy to know which is them, because of their writing style alone.

(Referenced Link)

Dear Anonymous,

Chief Mod Edgeworth: We never get to the letters in the inbox for a month or a few weeks. Either way, it seems you guys didn’t need our help for Shoe and Wagahai to win against the Baron.

(I’d have voted for both to be honest. I love The Cat Returns.)

Dear Anonymous,

Chief Mod Edgeworth: Clay Terran. Apollo kept mentioning him throughout Duel Destinies and we never get to see him. I think we should have seen Clay instead of just being told of his existence by Apollo.

Co-Mod: Cindy Stone comes to mind. I’m not a big fan of models, but it’d be nice to know why she had a soft spot for Larry despite having so many other men who admired her.

Dear Charicla,

Chief Mod Edgeworth: I’ve never used the block tags on here, so I don’t know what to do about that. As I have said before, the Hotti letters from that troll are gone now, so it shouldn’t be a problem anymore.

(Referenced Letter)

Dear Anonymous,

Chief Mod Edgeworth: Yes and no. The Squid Game letters were going around at the time and I couldn’t come up with better ideas for Gant’s response.

(Referenced Letter)

Dear Pun,

Chief Mod Edgeworth: I wasn’t a mod at the time. I’m assuming this is from Co-Mod. If it is, he’ll answer below. Either way, your words are appreciated.

Co-Mod: Yep, that was me.

I probably wouldn’t have noticed it myself if you hadn’t pointed it out. It’s always fun discovering things you didn’t notice before like that, so I’m glad I was able to create that moment for you.

Dear Anonymous,

Chief Mod Edgeworth: Honestly, all of them. I did mention in your previous letter about not telling the same joke more than three times. This is one example of how it could be done if you were to break that rule. The reason it works is because you’re using the same joke to multiple people, each one of them being different from the other.

If you really want to start doing letters again, I’d start by either STOP making Hotti letters altogether or writing letters that do not involve Hotti. Take a lesson from Dawsongfg. If you want to write letters again, stop writing the very letters that got you blacklisted in the first place.

Co-Mod: Do old ones count? If so, I’d probably go with this one.

Dear Rogertheegg,

Chief Mod Edgeworth: To be honest, I’m not sure. However, someone on here did create an OC that is close to an ideal Prosecutor for Athena. The only thing I remember is that her name was Steele. I loved her design and how she has that Old World/by-the-books mentality that opposes Athena’s New World/technological views. It’s an interesting idea and something I feel we need more of in Ace Attorney: Prosecutors that aren’t assholes and just have a different perspective on things. Sure, we had Klavier, but it’s clear he was only there to represent a reflection of his brother, who was the asshole villain.

This is why I’m excited about having Kazuma being a Prosecutor because this means the third game of TGAA will give us a Prosecutor that isn’t an asshole. I think Kazuma would do better as a Prosecutor that isn’t an asshole (the unlikable kind anyways) and is just a Prosecutor with a different set of views. The last case gave us an idea of what that would look like. Just get rid of the revenge thing and you have a Prosecutor who’s stubborn with his views and how he views a crime scene that would be an excellent opponent to Ryunosuke with an overarching conflict that would flow well with it.

Co-Mod: Simple -- use Franziska’s sister (or her niece if she’s a prosecutor by now, which wouldn’t be surprising). In the words of Phoenix, it’s scary when women fight, and who wouldn’t want to see women like them in a face-to-face courtroom brawl? I don’t even know what Franziska’s sister or niece are like, but I’m still willing to bet it’d be pretty epic.

Chief Mod Edgeworth: Why does every von Karma have to be a Prosecutor? Can’t we have female prosecutors that are original?

Dear Anonymous,

Chief Mod Edgeworth: I think your letters with Phoenix acting stupid are great examples of this. The reason your letters with Phoenix acting stupid work is because he often does this. Granted, there’s context behind it, but it’s because he’s done this before that even Edgeworth can believe those letters are from Phoenix, even if it makes him OOC or more stupid than he normally is. That’s usually the key: it has to be something other characters could believe the character you’re writing would say/do. I will give you one example by using another character known for doing stupid stuff: Dick Gumshoe.

Dear Mr. Edgeworth,

Man, that Wright character ain’t never gonna win this one for sure. The man I just arrested was the only one found next to the victim inside the bathroom. Sure, the fingerprints don’t match the weapon, but he probably wiped it off or something. It couldn’t have been anyone else but him. Let’s see Mr. Wright try to beat us this time!

- Detective Gumshoe

Now, while this one does put Gumshoe OOC for arresting someone, knowing the fingerprints don’t match the gun, it is like his character to arrest someone because their name is on the back of the receipt. He also sees Phoenix as an opponent and someone to prove that he’s a good Detective, given how many times he gets his salary cut. You could have him arrest Oldbag because she lost her temper and it would work. Then, you have this:

Dear Mr. Edgeworth,

I just arrested Mr. Wright. I always knew that guy was up to no good! You can count that we’ll get that guy in prison in no time!

- Detective Gumshoe

Not only is this OOC of Gumshoe, but this is not the kind of man he is. He’s not someone who arrests or finds joy in arresting anyone he considers a friend. Hell, he couldn’t even think straight when he had to testify to his crush being a murderer TWICE. He demanded Phoenix to defend Edgeworth the moment he was arrested and he defended Kay when she was accused of murder while amnesic. He might be reckless when arresting someone, but when he has to arrest a friend, he’s going to investigate and find anything he can find to prove his friend didn’t do it. If he has to testify to his findings that point to his friend being the killer, he’s going to be sadder than Ema Skye eating snackoos.

That’s what you do right with Phoenix. Yes, you’re having him point to everyone being the killer except the killer, but it’s closer to the kind of person he is. He does tend to do that under pressure. You also make sure that he’s not pointing to every character in the games and only points to those who testified in court (like he’s not pointing to Larry and Maya when neither of them testified. I don’t even think you had him accuse Ema since she kinda was in the middle of the trial and Phoenix pulling that stunt would make him seem less stupid and more cruel). Does this help?

-The Mods

#Most Post #Chief Mod Edgeworth #Co Mod #gumshoe-letty-fan #charicla #rogertheegg #Ace Attorney #Mod Commentary #I've mostly been putting this off because of school so if you're wondering why I haven't posted mod letters in months that's why

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