slides are up :)

10, 11, and 12 of the hate asks for honkai ^^

Most disliked arc? Why?

Its probably the one where himeko is dying of honkai radiation and as her first resort she turns to kiana, her disgraced chemistry student, and asks if she would want to cook crystal and then they go down their respective descents from grace. Was really a bummer, idk why the writers decided to take that route

Im kidding…its moon arc. You know it. Your friends know it. Your grandma knows it. All around mid.

Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

Its still pretty well received but i did like EE! For the most part. It wasnt worth 3 hours but for what the flamechasers deserved in terms of story worth, they got what they needed methinks. Specifically kosma and griseos endings were great. There are some really dumb parts but its still not their faults. Its a very forgivable mid arc

I saw your posts about Katara and the general treatment of female characters in the new ATLA fandom and what i wanna know is, why is it like this now? You know usually i'd say if there's misogyny in a fandom is because the show itself has big problems with it. But ATLA is like, the complete opposite of that? It's a very good show in terms of equality between female and male characters. And it was out there pushing that over a decade ago.

Like who's coming into this show full of great women and going "I only care about the boys and the girls are annoying"? Methinks these people are far too accustumed to shows and fandom where male characters and male focus are the norm, and they come into this show and start perpetuating the same, but this is to me at least almost entirily the fandom's fault. Cause the show isn't out there purposely ignoring or giving bad dialogue and arcs to the women in it. (2/2)

yeah, i agree. there's a very clear and longstanding male-centric bias in fandom in general, and atla is no exception, and yes, it really isn't well-supported by canon, which has plenty of well-developed female characters. atla fandom isn't the WORST i've been in, but the fandom focus has... shifted very male-centric nowadays in a way that wasn't always so prominent. while i'm not gonna say that it was a fantastic thing, before about 2015, there was a little bubble of more female-centric fanwork in the fandom -- mostly concerning azula, but other characters, too. (again, i don't think that it was a fantastic thing, given the fact that a lot of azula fanwork tends to ignore fundamental aspects of her, but it was there, and it existed.) now what? the fandom is predominantly z*ukka, with lingering remnants from a thriving z*utara fandom.

in general, i don't blame fandom for zuko being a fan-favorite -- he was practically designed that way. dramatic and attractive, with one of the most visible character arcs in the series. for other characters, you actually have to pay attention to see how they learn and change; for zuko, you don't have to pay much attention at all. but exempting him, the two most developed characters are aang and katara, both of whom get glossed over in fandom, particularly 2020 fandom. since katara is the main female, let's look at her.

why is she so disrespected in fandom? i think we can start by examining the largest pairings. the z*utara fandom goes all the way back to the airing of the show itself. it's a genuinely compelling dynamic and i like it, but the fandom repels me deeply... because katara is often forced into a position where she has to perform emotional labor in order to force zuko to redeem himself. her character often loses spark, and she sometimes becomes passive in way that's not canon. not to mention there's a whole subset of z*utara tropes that feels very... colonialist. and being a brown girl, fitting her into these more passive, colonized molds is... uh, not a good look on the fans. but i digress. at least she's there and present.

now flash forward to post-2015, but especially 2020, z*ukka fandom. (this fandom existed prior, but was much more lowkey.) the one thing about a lot of mlm pairings in practically every fandom, is how fans can choose to exclude the females of the narrative. this is in no way a disparagement of gay shipping -- but it is a criticism of how those same shippers behave to other characters. other characters, especially females, become accessories to their main ship, and because of that, they often become flat and unidimensional. furthermore, z*ukka had a rival ship in z*utara, so establishing a sense of superiority comes down to proving that sokka is somehow better than katara in some form or another. and how? she's homophobic, she's whiny, she's a "mom", she's "straight" (???) ... or maybe they call her badass and assign her no other traits. maybe they even pair her off with another person to get her out of the way, so they can focus on their mlm pairing, which they justify as more important because it's "progressive shipping". essentially, unlike z*utara, z*ukka stans can very conveniently throw katara out the window. she doesn't need to be present, and so often times, she isn't.

it's just all part of this continued shafting of brown girls in fandom. the fandom CONSISTENTLY loves to hate katara, specifically because she talks about her trauma so much. (which is justified as hell! she lost her mother and then became a mother to the rest of her village at a young age, and she uses this trauma to help her empathize with others!) zuko's out here monologuing about his trauma, and everyone loves him, but this same love doesn't extend to katara. it's irksome to say in the least. sokka, who's of the same race, gets a lot more attention, and that really says a lot about how gender plays into fan-following, because he isn't quite as developed as she is.

there are other girls in the fandom with notable followings, but honestly it would take forever going through each one of them step by step. azula is the most significant in fandom, and that's partially because her character development is strong and visible in the way that zuko's is. also, people have a tendency towards enjoying more unstable females, but that's its own thing. overall, though, even she has been long outstripped by the fan-following of the main mlm ship in fandom. there's no way to compete with that.

and really, that's all it is. this recent misogyny is very much a result of this almost cultish shift towards one particular ship in fandom, an mlm ship that very obviously allows for the exclusion of female characters. once you become a superfan and enwrapped in this type of cultish shipping, you no longer need canon, you no longer need the rest of the cast, and you no longer need female characters, and so you can just enter into a nice little echo chamber where you talk about the same two characters over and over again and get completely disconnected from the original material. and that sucks, because often times, it's the canon context and the complexity of other characters that provide complexity to these characters you're discussing, and now that you've disconnected, you've warped and flattened the dynamic of everyone including those favorite characters into something very generic and boring. and that's a travesty! but, well, i suppose it’s just another byproduct of misogyny.

TLJ Reaction Post

Short version: meh.

Longer version: behind the cut for length, disorganized rambling, general grumpiness, and spoilers. I haven’t really looked at anyone else’s reaction posts yet, so I’m sure my opinions could very well be diametrically opposed to everyone else’s, in which case....oops?

*I have mixed feelings about Poe’s actions in the first scene: one would think he’d have learned to be more pragmatic over the years, but that said, a plot arc (with Leia!) about learning to make hard choices as a leader is exactly the sort of character arc that I usually love....except when it comes at the cost of an idiot plot (see below.) But! At least Poe didn’t get stuck with a ridiculous romantic subplot and has an excellent chance of making it through the last film alive. He probably got the best deal of all three new leads, TBH.

* I also like Rose, quite a lot! I like her being idealistic and clever and determined, and she plays off Finn well. Which made me SO disappointed that her overall role is third leg of a LOVE TRIANGLE, of all things. (Star Wars doesn’t even do love triangles! At least not when two of the people involved aren’t awkwardly related to each other. And I hate how fandom will inevitably feel the need to pit her against Rey :( )

*That said, clearly Rose’s sister had to die horribly, because heaven forbid we have more than one POC female character featured. I liked her in her brief appearance, though.

* Holdo! I have mixed feelings overall. Morally dubious, smart, and ultimately tragic female leaders are some of my favorite character tropes (Everyone in Baahubali fandom is SHOCKED to hear this, I’m sure.) and also I loved Leia having a friend/alternative shipping option during the time she and Han were estranged. But: there was absolutely no reason for her to be so antagonistic to Poe, and his sudden dislike to her before he’s even met her doesn’t do him any favors either. We’re supposed to guess that the reason she doesn’t reveal her plan is because of a possible spy, which....um, how did the first order get the tracking coordinates in the first place? Did I miss that? Anyway, even if that is her reasoning, if she’s so close to Leia, surely she knows Poe is her protege and can be trusted. I’m not saying she has to announce her plans over the loudspeaker, but taking him aside to allay his concerns seems perfectly sensible and I can’t understand why she didn’t do that.

* Also Google informs me that Holdo first appears in a tie-in and has been compared to Luna Lovegood. Guys, I can’t imagine a character less like Luna than movie! Holdo; what am I missing?

*Which is as good a time as any to scream about Rey and how much her plot arc suffered the second Ben got involved. I’d happily watch a cut that was all her developing her Jedi powers, cut to the rescue on Crait and her “just moving rocks” scene. But no, instead she gets this long involved subplot with Ben that’s just....For me to believe that Rey has so much invested in his redemption, Ben needed to play the roles Finn and Han played in the first movie: the first people to value her, to help her, to come back for her. Instead Ben killed one of them and hurt the other before her eyes (yes, I screamed internally when he gave her the “join me” spiel.) Hell, I’d even have taken Han begging her to save Ben as his dying wish; or perhaps the AU where she’s Han and Leia’s adopted daughter taken in after Ben’s fall with all the complicated relationships that entails; but as is, it’s every toxic shipping dynamic that I hate.

*Okay, it’s time for the Ben rant (note: I do call him “Ben,” but that’s because I find I’m most attached and invested to the original trio, and as they all consistently call him “Ben”) Waking up to find your uncle and teacher trying to kill you is clearly traumatic!....But the appropriate response to that is not to turn around and do the same thing to your fellow students, who had nothing to do with this as far as we know. Nor is it to commit genocide knowingly. Nor is it to kill your unarmed father, who is specifically mentioned as not wanting you to be trained as a Jedi to start with, in cold blood. Also, even if we want to blame it on Snoke....Ben keeps on going even after Snoke’s death. At this point, he is beyond redemption for me; and Leia, at least, seems to agree.

That said, Luke: “If you cut me down, I’ll stay with you forever!”

Ben: *immediately slashes at him with his lightsaber*

...Methinks Bhalla and Ben probably need the same therapist.

*Leia flying in the vacuum of space was ridiculous. The CGI looked off to me, the science makes no sense, and we’ve never before seen that the Force can do such a thing, any more than we have astral projection (? But then how was Luke able to touch Leia’s hand or transfer the dice from the Falcon?) That said, I’m so glad she survived :)

* I was less happy with Luke’s plotline. First off, my! Luke would never be so pointlessly hostile and rude—I get the sense that his montage of going around the island was supposed to be funny, but no one in my theater laughed at least. But more egregiously, with regards to trying to kill his own nephew: LUKE WOULD NEVER. I just don’t buy it, at all, ever; this is LUKE SKYWALKER, the man who inherited his mother’s heart, the man who refused to kill Darth Vader. To think that he would, even for a second, CONSIDER murdering his sleeping nephew is completely incompatible with my understanding of his character. The scene with Yoda was better, as was the climax, but it’s not enough to overcome everything that had come before.

* Chewbacca and the original droids were sadly underused, most blatantly R2. I liked the one R2 and Luke scene but....how was that Luke had only the one interaction with his beloved droid?

* If he was going to be killed off so abruptly, I’d really have liked an explanation as to who Snoke is, how he found Ben and came into contact with him, what his actual goals are? But I guess that won’t be an option now.

* The porgs and the crystal fox-things were cute!

* Probably an unpopular opinion, but I actually was okay with Rey just being an orphan without connections to the Solo-Skywalkers. I know the story is largely a family saga, but I’m ok with the message being that bloodlines don’t matter (once again, the adopted Rey AU could emphasize this so much more). That said I’m still confused as to why Rey apparently has dreamed of Luke’s island before: this clearly isn’t something all Force sensitive kids do, so why her?

* Also, the pacing seemed a little off to me? I expected that the big Rey/Ben/Snoke duel was the climax and then the film went on for another thirty or so minutes, which seemed rather too much to me.

* Finally, I’ve mentioned this before to some of you, but overall what I find most disappointing about the new trilogy is how cylical everything seems to be. Leia is an overworked politician again, Han an unscrupulous smuggler; and just like Ben Kenobi, Luke is a hermit mourning the failure of his attempt at mentor ship for years. Actually Ben at least had the purpose of watching over Luke; Luke apparently abandoned his sister and the galaxy just to go wallow (LUKE WOULD NEVER!). The galaxy is at war, again, there’s the Sith back again, and whereas RotJ closed on a wealth of possibility for the characters, promising closure from the sadness of the past, the sequels just leave me wondering: “what was the point, then?” I was honestly expecting that watching this movie would make me want to write much more in this fandom, but honestly, the disconnect between how I see the characters and how the creators do is so great that I don’t feel I can do it justice.

That said, that is mostly me venting, mostly because of my own subjective tastes. If you guys enjoyed watching the movie, I’m super happy to hear that! We all need something to cheer us up these days :) I hope that you can all forgive my grumping and overall pettiness, haha.