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carminecarnivale · 6 months

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Literally no one is talking about this (that I’ve seen anyway) and the episode is old now but I can’t stop thinking about it so I’m making a post anyway.

This is about the scene in Helluva Boss season 2 episode 7 “Mammon’s Magnificent Musical Mid-Season Special” where a young imp and Fizzarolli sign to each other.

TLDR: The signing is wonky and the scene feels unearned.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT DEAF AND NOT AN ASL EXPERT. THIS IS JUST MY INTERPRETATION OF THIS SCENE. I DO NOT SPEAK FOR DEAF OR HOH PEOPLES’ OPINIONS.

Right. So, surface level, what do the writers *want* to have the signing mean? What is their desired English sentiment?

Kid: Fizzarolli! I’m a big fan!

Fizz: Come on over here

Kid: I want to be a clown just like you!

Fizz: You can do anything you want to do.

Cool, great. Now, what did they actually sign? DISCLAIMER 2: THERE IS NO WRITTEN FORM OF ASL, ASL CAN BE SORT OF TRANSCRIBED IN ENGLISH BUT IT IS NOT WRITTEN ASL.

Kid: F-CLOWN (name sign, “Fizzarolli”) I BIG FAN.

Fizz: [Gesture to come over]

Kid: CLOWN SAME-AS-YOU.

Fizz: IF/SUPPOSE WANT, CAN-aff WORK.

On the most basic level, this is fine. It more-or-less represents what the writers wanted to be said. But it’s just…not great. It’s so simple compared to what the writers wanted to say. It makes the translation put up on screen look wrong.

The kid makes no indication that they “want” to be a clown, they could very well have been meaning that they currently ARE a clown, maybe even in training. There was no indication of “becoming” or a future signifier. There was a general lack of pronouns making it sound vague. The final sentiment from Fizz is much more grounded than what the writers wanted him to say. “You can do anything!” vs “you could work as a clown if you wanted to.” The difference speaks for itself.

There ARE signs for the sentiment they want to convey!!! They exist!!! LOOK: https://youtu.be/JbfWzc0-R6E?si=FxvbC9l-hvArLPg0

youtube

“But wait!” I hear you say. “What if they got the signs first and mistranslated it?”

Since this is an English show for English speakers that must be written in English, no. They wrote the translation first and put mediocre signing in the episode.

Could the sentiment have been gutted for time/animation constraints? Quite possibly! But we’ve seen the kinds of shots the Helluva team can pull off (Striker’s 3/4 turn with the pistol, DHORKs full camera action spin, to name a few) so I don’t doubt they COULD have animated the signing appropriately if they wanted to.

Now, they did have an ASL consultant for this episode (the bare minimum we love to see it, AND on the very last page of credits? wow), his name is Salvador Baltazar. There’s not much out there on him, but he’s primarily an interpreter. There is no way to know what he helped with or how much he dictated the scene and I don’t plan on wildly speculating. It’s great that he’s there, why did he let this signing air the way it did though.

Finally, what’s the purpose of this scene? Why is it here? Why these characters in this situation?

More competent analysts than I have picked apart the woobification of Helluva characters and how, once they’re not a villain anymore, their characterization and morals get completely overhauled to appeal to the “oh he’s so traumatized!” crowd.

I think this scene is a part of that. And it got its desired reaction.

Seeing celebrities interact well with children is already something that would net a character some popularity brownie points. If that child is clearly an “other” and the celebrity does something special to recognize that child? Brownie fucking bakeries.

The purpose of this scene is to show that not all of Fizz’s fans suck, yes, but also to show how kind and nice and thoughtful Fizz is just to hammer home how TragicTM his situation is.

And the fans went wild!!!! Here is a character putting in effort to learn ASL and speak with child fans! Wow he’s so great! He’s so amazing! What Herculean tasks he’s taken upon himself to be so cool! Wow! (Not everyone says it like that, but that was the general vibe of the Helluva tag following the episode’s release).

It got fans speculating; “I wonder if this ties into his Tragic BackstoryTM!” We’ll probably never know because Fizz’s fluency in ASL, his role in the Deaf community, is not something the writers care about exploring. They didn’t include a scene with ASL because they wanted to have a deaf character, they included it to make Fizz look good.

Something a lot of people have brought up about this kid—and rightfully so—is their age. What’s this 9 year old doing at the blow-out clown sex appeal concert? How did they get into the VIP section? Couldn’t you contrast the possessive critic guy with another adult who isn’t gross? Wouldn’t it make more sense if this character was an ADULT at the ADULT SHOW?

Yes! Yes it would! But would an adult signer garner half as many pity points as a young child with stars in their eyes? No. I doubt it would.

This scene is not here to show respect for deaf people. Just like the show doesn’t respect deaf people. I ask you to check out the captions for season 2 episode 6. Go on.

Because you know what you’ll find?

A bunch of loud, keysmashing inanity, that ignores describing what’s being said in favour of making queef jokes. These are not functional captions. For a show that prides itself on being just as professional as what you can find aired on TV or streaming, this is laughably bad. This is YouTube 2013 gaming jump scare compilations bad. And those captions are Still There DESPITE people pointing out that they’re not functional.

From a studio that’s fine with sabotaging their own captions I really shouldn’t be surprised with their treatment of ASL as sloppy, basic, and only really there for pandering.

Jesus Christ, do better.

#helluva boss #helluva boss fizzarolli #helluva boss season 2 #helluva boss season two episode seven #mammons magnificent musical mid season special #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism

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shortbreadly · 7 months

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STOP

MAKING

FIZZ

SUFFER

give him a break, give him a kitkat

#helluva boss #helluva boss spoilers #helluva boss season two #helluva boss episode seven #helluva boss mammon’s magnificent musical mid-season special #helluva boss fizzarolli #helluva boss mammon #helluva boss ozzie #helluva boss asmodeus

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dudematya · 7 months

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Super quick sketch. I really liked their song from the new series

#helluva boss #helluva boss spoilers #myart #helluva boss episode seven #helluva boss season two #helluva boss season 2 #mammon #vivziemind #vivzieverse #vivienne medrano #glitz & glam #glitz and glam #glitz and glam fanart #helluva boss glitz & glam #klown bitch #vivziepop

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gartenofbanny · 7 months

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So here's a quick review of the latest Helluva Boss episode. It's meh if I'm being honest.

I don't know if it's because the episode itself is uninteresting or if it's because I'm just losing interest in Helluva Boss overall.

I predicted that the episode would be the Queen Bee of Season 2 and I wasn't completely wrong, but I wasn't completely right either.

Not much happened in this episode, with the only major thing happening being that Fizzarolli finally stands up to Mammon and quits his occupation as Mammon's merch boy.

The Fizzmodeus ship throughout the episode was another highlight that I found entertaining, but everything else was just meh to me.

I still have no idea why Blitzo was there because he had no reason to be there. I'm pretty sure Asmodeus would've killed that creepy stalker dude either way.

My main issues with this episode are Mammon and Fizzarolli's relationship having no actual build-up, Fizzarolli being insecure of himself, and Fizzmodeus no longer being a secret but everyone just already knew anyway.

So, starting off with the first issue: Mammon and Fizzarolli's relationship was barely hinted on throughout the series mainly because Fizzarolli never had much screentime. As a result, his entire confrontation with Mammon feels very rushed. Similar to his and Blitzo's development.

Fizzarolli being insecure about himself is tiring. Because there are a lot of characters in Helluva Boss who are just insecure about themselves, and they all keep getting the same resolutions. That being, they just talk with another character and end up getting a self-confidence boost. It happens too many times throughout the series, and I'm just very tired of it.

Lastly, the Fizzmodeus ship actually being known. We don't know what the repercussions are if there are any, why Stella had an issue with it if A. She didn't care about it, and B. Two of the Seven Deadly Sins are also actively engaging in it, and what was even the point of having a conflict about it when there are no negatives.

That entire plot line just feels like a waste of time, and that's honestly what most of the overall episode felt like, a waste of time. At least it wasn't to the extent of Unhappy Campers. I didn't care for the Panty and Stocking parodies, I don't even remember their names lmao.

Mammon was..eh too. I'm glad that there's finally a Sin that's actually mean and stuff, but even then, he's not all that menacing. Not to mention his full Demon form is VERY underwhelming. He literally just turns big, has bug legs, and has more eyes.

Anyway, the episode gets a meh/10, thank you all for reading and I hope you all have a good one.

#vivziepop critical #helluva boss #vivziepop #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #vivziepop criticism #helluva boss critique #vivienne medrano #helluva critical

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anthurak · 2 years

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Loona and Octavia: It’s not ALWAYS about the Found Family trope...

I’ve never really talked about Helluva Boss here before, but it’s actually one of my favorite shows at the moment and this latest episode had some interactions between two characters that I’ve been waiting a long time for, and the results have set up a very interesting potential relationship dynamic and I really want to discuss it.

So let’s talk about Loona and Octavia. And a take that I imagine might get me a bit of flak: I don’t think the relationship between these two is the ‘wholesome sisterly dynamic’ that much of the fandom seems to have latched onto. However, I also don’t really see this pair’s dynamic as necessarily being romantic either. Rather, I think there is something else quite a bit more interesting going on here.

I think the main the reason why the idea of the story treating Loona and Octavia as some explicitly ‘sisterly’ relationship hasn’t really felt right to me, particularly after this latest episode, is the fact that Loona and Octavia simply aren’t kids.

Loona is just entering her twenties, and Octavia is just about out of her teens. One detail about the whole ‘Octavia is 17!’ thing that I think most people have overlooked is when we actually learned this information. Specifically, the info about Octavia being 17 was released around the same time or even before her first proper appearance in the show in S1E2. Now consider the fact that Season 1 of Helluva Boss seems to take place over the better part of a year at least, with just the stretch between episodes three (Spring Break=March) and five (Harvest Moon=September) alone being six-to-seven months. So if Octavia is 17 in ‘Loo-Loo Land’, then by now she is almost certainly 18, or at least very close to her birthday.

My point to all this is that I think the entire ‘wholesome sisterly dynamic’ interpretation of Loona’s and Octavia’s relationship is actually quite a bit off-base. A lot of the fandom seems to view the dynamic between these two as two kids or a younger kid and an older teen brought together as part of a family because their dads became a couple.

But particularly after this latest episode, I think it’s clear that the narrative of Helluva Boss is NOT treating either Loona or Octavia as ‘kids’ but rather as two young adults figuring out their place in the world and working through and coming to grips with some very complicated issues relating to their dads and families. So instead of their relationship being some ‘adoptive step-sisters’ dynamic that is simply some byproduct of the relationship between their dads, I think Loona’s and Octavia’s bond is going to be much more of a close, intimate friendship that exists largely independently of whatever their dads may have going on.

And I think we can already get a pretty good guess as to what this friendship is going to represent for the story.

During Loona’s and Octavia’s scene together, there’s this really interesting bit of duel symbolism going on that I haven’t seen anyone bring up.

Remember Loona’s finicky I.M.P. lighter? Now a lot of people have already pointed out the symbolism of the lighter representing Blitzo and Loona’s relationship with her father: The lighter doesn’t always work, and even rarely works, but it is trying. And eventually it does work, just like Blitzo’s efforts to be a good father.

However, now let’s keep this symbolism in mind and dial the scene back to the start when Loona is trying to light her cigarette. She tries to use the lighter, but can’t get it to work. But then Octavia lights Loona’s cigarette. Think about the symbolism there for a moment.

If the lighter in this scene represents Blitzo’s genuine and earnest but still very flawed and unreliable relationship with Loona, then I think this could very well symbolize that a friendship with Octavia is something much more stable and trusting for Loona.

And the same is true the other way around. At the end of the scene when the smog clears just a bit to give Octavia and Loona a view of the night sky, Octavia does get a view of the stars, which symbolize her father, but else what is shining down on her even brighter? The moon. Which is the point where Loona offers her a hand and the moment where they share a hug before returning to Blizo and Stolas. All under the light of the full moon.

Again, the symbolism here isn’t particularly subtle. While the stars are something Octavia struggles to find, just like her relationship with her father, it is the moon which shines down on her even brighter. Again symbolizing that Loona is someone Octavia can trust and rely on far more than her father.

It really feels like this scene is showing us Loona and Octavia recognizing and coming to grips with the fact that both their fathers are colossal fuckups as parents, yet also love and care for their respective daughters dearly, while ALSO showing Loona and Octavia forming this close bond with someone who both deeply understands what they are going through, and is someone they really can trust and rely on.

One of the big recurring themes about Blitzo’s and Stolas’s arc as fathers that really gets highlighted this episode is that one can have entirely genuine, unconditional love for their child and want the absolute best for them, while ALSO being a complete and utter disaster of a parent.

Like Blitzo clearly adores Loona and wants nothing but the best for his daughter, and he also just as clearly SUCKS at being a parent. As we learn in this episode, the whole reason he even adopted Loona in the first place was because her situation hit one of his repressed trauma buttons HARD and ever since he’s been doing nothing but enabling Loona’s unhealthy coping mechanisms to her own trauma because he is clearly terrified of being ANYTHING like his own father. Again, that’s not to say Blitzo doesn’t love his daughter completely and unconditionally. It’s just that as a functioning parent, Blitzo is a complete fucking MESS.

And Stolas isn’t much better himself. Yes, he used to be a legitimately pretty good dad to Octavia, but it’s pretty clear that years of verbal/psychological abuse from Stella and a LOT of repression have seriously messed Stolas up. And he’s really only become more of a mess since he started up his affair with Blitzo. With Octavia being the one caught up in the middle of that mess.

Again, it’s clear that Octavia still means the world to Stolas and he would never knowingly do anything to hurt her. It’s just that he’s also a complete fucking WRECK of unraveling repressed trauma in the midst of an imploding marriage AND caught up in childhood-friend-romance-feelings that even he doesn’t fully understand. All of which clearly has a tendency to override/short-out any ‘good-parenting’ instincts. Just this episode shows us in several cases of Stolas either getting caught up in her divorce from Stella or getting caught up in his love for Blitzo and wanting to have fun with him that he ends up unknowingly leaving Octavia by the wayside. It’s not that Stolas doesn’t love his daughter, it’s that his mess of psychological and emotional issues have left him fairly unreliable to Octavia.

Which is precisely what makes Loona so important. Throughout the entire episode, she’s the one who puts in all the actual legwork to help Octavia. Loona is the one to figure out that Octavia went to Los Angeles while Blitzo and Stolas had no idea where she was. Loona is the one to actually track down Octavia in LA while Blitzo, Stolas and the M&Ms get caught up in various shenanigans. And it’s Loona who gives Octavia the emotional heart-to-heart and closure that she needs.

It all seems to point to Loona being exactly the kind of close, reliable friend that Octavia desperately needs in her life right now. And going by the symbolism with the lighter we covered earlier, it seems like Octavia will likewise end up being the same kind of close friend that Loona needs in her life too.

This is ultimately a big reason why I think the whole ‘adoptive sisterly’ interpretation of Loona and Octavia doesn’t really fit with what the show is actually giving us. This doesn’t feel like two kids being brought together simply because their parents have started a serious relationship. This feels like two young adults with similar interests and issues striking up a close friendship that is largely independent of their parents.

Yes, Loona and Octavia technically meet through their dads, but let’s not forget that Blitzo’s and Stolas’s relationship can still be best described as ‘an extremely vaguely-defined fling’. Yes, Blitzo and Stolas have certainly caught major feelings for each other, but they are clearly still a LONG way off from any kind of serious, committed relationship, let alone something that would end up classifying Loona and Octavia as ‘sisters’.

And any blossoming friendship between Loona and Octavia is clearly going to be their own thing, based on their shared likes and interests and what is clearly a deep, mutual understanding of their very similar problems, rather than anything tied to whatever their dads have going on. For one thing, I kinda doubt either Loona or Octavia see each other as any kind of ‘sister’ after their first meeting in Star Seekers, rather than simply a girl with a lot of similar interests who really understands what they’re going through. A friendship feels more like mutually supportive relationship that they both Loona and Octavia know they can trust and rely on more than their uncertain and tumultuous relationships with their dads.

Like I can totally imagine a situation down the line where Blitzo and Stolas have some big dramatic ‘breakup’ for a while where Stolas tries to break-off his ‘contract’ with Blitzo by giving him one of the Asmodean Crystals that the previous episode hinted that would allow Blitzo and his company to access the human world without Stolas’s Grimoire. And it’s all big and dramatic and both are going ‘Yep. It’s really over between us now.’

And then it turns out Loona and Octavia are still hanging out and having fun together because this doesn’t actually change anything for them and if either of their dads gave even the slightest insinuation that they should stop being friends, they would IMMEDIATELY go ‘Fuck you dad/Blitzo! She’s my best friend!’ And probably immediately steal the Grimoire/kick Blitzo’s ass simply out of spite.

After this episode, it really feels like whatever relationship Loona and Octavia are going to have is something largely independent of what their dads have going on, just as Loona and Octavia will likely be growing more independent of their fathers as individuals as they grow up. So whenever Blitzo and Stolas finally figure their shit out and commit to a real relationship, I think Loona and Octavia will very much have their own separate thing going on. They’ll certainly still be a ‘family’, but I seriously doubt it will be the kind of straightforward, homogenous ‘two fathers raising two daughters’ type of thing that a lot of the fandom seems to be expecting.

#helluva boss #helluva boss analysis #helluva boss theory #loona #helluva loona #octavia goetia #helluva octavia #blitzo #stolas goetia #when fandom gets a little TOO into the found family trope...#first big helluva boss post #more to come #i think there is some REALLY interesting stuff going on with these two...

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rouge-fox-expanded · 2 months

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I love Hazbin Hotel, the story, lore and the songs! And like many of us I was drawn to Lucifer like a moth to a flame, which incidentally is what many of us are projecting onto Valentino. Now Hazbin much like Good Omens is taking much of the theology surrounding the old testament to be the point of origin of heaven and hell along with all the old lore from hell. We see this in Helluva Boss a lot with three out of seven of the sins revealed, Beelzebub being the sin of Gluttony, Azmodeus being the sin of Lust and Mammon being the sin of greed with I believe mentions of Satan (wrath), Belphagor (sloth) and Leviathan (Envy) and Lucifer being the apex (Pride).

Now behind every great man there tends to be a great woman, and this seems to be especially true with Lucifer as we have the enigmatic Lilith, the woman that came before Eve. She was made from the same dust as Adam, made to be his equal and yet things didn't go so well, she would leave the garden and be punished (I don't have all the theology but I think she was cursed to give birth to demons or couldn't have children herself) and so eve was made from Adam's rib to be more subservient. Now in terms of Hazbin lore Adam and Lilith were created equal but Adam tried to assert dominance and Lilith wasn't accepting, yeeted out of there and that was the start of her meet cute with Lucifer whom from what we have been told was a bit of a trouble maker, but in the sense of being a creative and imaginative soul who's ideas didn't fit the mould of divinity. This is the first instance of what I love about the show: NUANCE. The angels believe everything is black and white despite the plot and characters proving time and time again that this is not the case, Lucifer from what we have seen of him is blantantly not evil. Lilith on the other hand, well that's where the theories start pouring in.

(warning long theory post)

I will admit I have been using the canon scraps from both the show and the interviews to project an image of Lilith as the Morticia to Lucifer's Gomez and I share Vivzie's head canon that she would be voiced by Lady Gaga. Seeing Lilith and Lucifer as a power couple, disgustingly in love whilst sticking it to heaven and rallying up hell using Charlie's hotel as a form of malicious compliance/lawful defiance would give me so much serotonin. However this is just a theory and imagining based on limited information and holds as much water as the other theories which paint Lilith in a much darker shade. Lilith's screen time in Hazbin hotel is less than two minutes and most of that is flashbacks (one of which is dubious) and she has no spoken lines and no insight into her motives or feelings and given that season 2 is coming at us at 2025 at the earliest the more ravenous of us are already making ideas of what kind of character she is going to be.

Now quite a compelling theory is she could be very similar in attitude and personality to Adam, yes you heard me right. Adam is essentially the poster child for toxic masculinity coated in so much narcissism, the fact that for 90% of the show has him wearing a mask is pretty symbolic of this as it means he never has to worry about anyone seeing him as weak because his mask can literally keep him covered (even if it slips, looking at the court scene in episode six). Now Lilith being similar in personality to Adam would certainly explain why they didn't get along, both thought they were the apex and wanted to be in charge. Whilst Adam is the epitome of toxic masculinity Lilith could very well be the avatar of toxic femininity and yet she is limited by her own humanity and the whims of divinity...until she meets Lucifer, someone whom also has big ideas, a lot of imagination and most crucially doesn't feel like he belongs amongst the other angels. Lilith probably thought God had answered her prayers.

Now I personally don't think Lilith is the defacto villain, that would rather fly in the face of the nuanced take Hazbin shows us. Hell isn't forever and Heaven isn't perfect, it's not black and white and we need to look into the gray but let's assume Lilith and Adam were similar in their extreme personalities, does this mean that Lilith is going to be just as bad as Adam? I would argue not necessarily and the reason for that is consequences. Out of the two, Adam doesn't suffer any consequences until the finale of Hazbin hotel season 1 (or at least none that he seems to be particularly showing asides from some hints at the mention of eve and we haven't even asked about Cain and Abel) but for Lilith...she's been suffering consequences for millennia. Now we go back to the lore of hazbin hotel, according to the info dump Charlie gives us in the beginning Evil is it's own seperate and conscious entity, it's even got a name according to interviews and creator bts talk: Roo. And so heaven keeps evil in it's place by maintaining strict control over creation and life on earth (apparently). In the old stories Adam and Eve get kicked out of Eden because a snake offers Eve an apple telling her that it will grant her knowledge of morality. Incidently in the original bible story the snake is just a snake, no mention of it being lucifer but in the hazbin lore Lilith and Lucifer plan to give the apple to Eve so as to gift humanity free will. NOW, here comes the nuance take: was this the wrong move? Because free will is so intrinsic into human nature that without it are we really human? How could someone be good or bad if they didn't choose those actions and by that logic how could a human be judged through a moral lense if they don't have the capacity to act on morality? Yet by giving Eve the apple and allowing humanity a choice between good and evil, well...this gives evil an opening to root into earth. Black mixes with the white and things become gray, heaven is pissed!

And as a consequence for this reckless act, Lilith and Lucifer are sent to hell, where it's all black. This kills Lucifer's creativity and he becomes depressed, Lilith however makes a comeback and establishes herself as the queen of hell and is able to rally up the demons and because of this amass of a power base, heaven is like 'welp, gotta do something about this' and apparently it was Adam who was like 'how about a cull?'. Adam is rewarded for his aggressive, violent and frankly appalling behavior and yet Lucifer and Lilith face the consequences of their own recklessness. If we are to assume Lilith and Adam started out with equally selfish personalities one got worse from being a winner (as we can see what he's like in season one) whilst we don't know what millennia of being a loser did to Lilith. There is of course one character that's very existence shows the light in Lucifer and potentially Lilith and that is Charlie, because if two fallen souls consigned to the worst place in creation can raise a daughter like Charlie Mornigstar then they can't be all bad right? I mean I would hope that Lilith did indeed love her husband and her daugher, because that's what a lot of those portraits/photos in Lucifer's man cave seem to tell us. Perhaps hell and raising a family taught Lilith some humility and she was able to grow in the way Adam clearly did not, having to face the consequences of a clearly broken system would have certainly shaped her ideas and attitudes but how do we explain her seven year absence? Well that's what Season Two will do (I hope) but as a lot of us aren't prepared to wait until 2025 we've all developed some pretty hot takes based on the limited but compelling information we've been given.

-Lilith has been missing from hell for seven years, the same time Alistor has been missing leading many to believe she is the one that owns his soul (a deal he is desperate to get out of now that he's aware of his own mortality and growing empathy)

-Lilith is in heaven due to a deal with Adam, and now that he's dead (for now) she is expected to go back to hell and bring Lucifer and Charlie into line so as not to threaten the foundations of heaven.

And that's all the canon info we have

That's literally all the solid information we have in regards to Lilith and many have used this to assume she is a shitty mom for just hanging on a beach doing god knows what for seven years whilst Charlie has been trying to carry on her legacy through the hotel and Lucifer's depression reduced him to a forced apathetic shut in.

But of course this is Hazbin and Helluva, and the lore is rich with that sweet grey nuance so calling Lilith a villain seems a little presumptious. I am not saying that is incorrect, but given that the main antagonists of season two are apparently going to be the Vees we can hope that Lilith isn't going to be Adam 2.0 for season two. Now I am going to briefly entertain some other theories before making my pitch for how I see Lilith; in episode 5 we see a flashback of lilith taking Charlie away from Lucifer during the song more than anything, and many eagle eyed viewers pointed out that the silhouette didn't have the same hairline as Lilith in the photos (and later in heaven) which lead them to spectulate Eve might have had a hand to play in this. This is a theory I actually think holds some water primarily because Adam is a fucking idiot, and any deal he would have made with Lilith would have had Sera or one of the other higher seraphim pulling it's strings. Adam isn't a schemer, but the other archangels well they know how powerful Lucifer is so keeping him contained and harmless would certainly be on their agenda and having Eve playing Lilith to keep him and Charlie from building each other up would certainly be a tactial move. And let's face it if they were able to kick him out of heaven and cast him into hell then wrecking his marriage wouldn't be that big of a deal for them. But then where does Lilith fit into this picture? We know that Lucifer negotiated that only the sinners could be killed during the exterminations, now would heaven grant him this simply to keep him placid or would he need to offer something in exchange? Maybe Heaven accepted this deal at first but Lilith continued to resist so they were like 'okay, how about this? You get to come back to heaven and stop all this resist and rebel shit?' and the stick to that carrot was 'it's either this or we go after hellborns too', and not prepared to face those consequences Lilith obeyed

Heaven has already crushed Lucifer's spirit, it took them longer to deal with Lilith but getting her in heaven and away from her family certainly solved the problem of resistance and with the exterminations keeping sinners in check everything became routine...until Charlie was like 'erm, redemption?' well that and the fact one of the overlords accidentally killed an exorcist (something Adam and Lute took personally). Now Lilith being in heaven actually affords her a few advantages that being in hell does not, because if it becomes public knowledge she is there then Heaven is gonna have several huge problems so her silence is not just golden but MANDATORY. If Lucifer knows she is in heaven this could explain how he was able to get Charlie that meeting, that kind of knowledge can certainly open doors and Lilith being close behind enemy lines would be privy to a fair bit of knowledge assuming she had any long term plans or schemes. And any of those schemes would certainly be helped by the current state of events at the end of season 1, Adam is dead (and potentially a sinner man in hell), the exorcisms have been made public to heaven, redemption works as proven by Sir Pentious getting a divine promotion and Lucifer is proactively supporting the Hazbin Hotel. The corrupt system that punished her and her family again and again has just suffered some massive pushback, the divine order is unsteady and there is confusion and more importantly: opportunity. And Lilith isn't like Adam, she's had to deal with consequences since the apple was given to Eve, she has had to grow, adapt and take all the shit that was thrown at her and deal with heaven's shit for a long time. It could certainly have made her a better person, or a worse one but I bet you it has made her pissed. And now Lute is sending her home to clean up the mess they made? That doesn't just sound like a spectacular mistake, but a damn good story.

So like the rest of us, I cannot wait to see Lilith in season 2. Maybe she will be a villain, maybe she won't be but I am betting she is going to be spectacular, I have faith in Vivziepop and I believe in Hazbin Hotel. And if she is voiced by Lady Gaga and does a duet with Jeremy Jordon I am going to sqee so hard the neighbours dogs will think it's an attack.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin lucifer #hazbin charlie #hazbin lilith #vivziepop #vivzieverse #charlie morningstar #lucifer morningstar #lucifer magne #hazbin hotel adam #lilith #hazbin thoughts #hazbin theory #helluva boss

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resisteverything · 3 months

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Episodes seven and eight of Helluva boss are awful.

The first six episodes are about being a series of demon hunters, and are at least somewhat connected to that concept with them being hired by someone or doing something connected to the concept, like they're usually doing murder at some point. But episode seven is about a date where Blitz gets overly sad based on very little, simply because Moxie and Millie are happy and he's not in a relationship. This is because of psychological issues that are implied to exist by the episode truth seekers, issues that we never truly explore until later in the season.

Why is Blitzo like this? Episodes 1-5 were just about him dicking about hell and episode six only asked the question rather than answering it. Then episode seven takes the concept very seriously in a way that doesn't feel fitting given how little we've seen of his issues. Also this is not a drama show, it's a crass action comedy, even episodes meant to seriously explore characters shouldn't be like this. The season finale of this action series should have action. These are the only two episodes to have no action when they're supposed to be the grand finale, with the most action. Bring back Dhorks with a tank, and the cherubs with a cupid's arrow, and Striker with a machine gun, and Verosika with some sort of weird sex pollen drug, and the spirits of the demon family out for revenge, and a robo-fizz for good measure. Each of these things has dramatic potential already, you can make that drama work and have there be a serious plot to it all.

#helluva boss critical #helluva boss #helluva boss criticism

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hellaverse-events · 3 months

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What is this?

Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss is about the structure of Hell through Vivienne Medrano's mind. With the completion of the first season of Hazbin Hotel, we are excited to host a themed week to focus on Hell a little bit more. Through the themed week, we are hoping for more content from you guys, whether it is art (of any media other than murder, we'll keep that to the shows only), fanfic or anything else that makes sense to you to create!

When is it?

HellaVerse Week will take place between October 27th, 2024 to November 2nd to honor the release of the Hazbin Hotel Pilot which is October 28th, 2019, and @random-nerd-posts is hosting other events between that time and can't do two things at once it seems.

HOWEVER! This should not stop you from creating fan works for the fandoms either! But if you post before the week, we might miss you, so be sure to tag us when you do post so we can share the joy of creation with you.

Are there prompts?

Yes! There are four to choose from each day and some alternate prompts as well. This post has the final prompts and explains the tagging system. Many thanks to the discord mods for helping ensure the list looked pretty and readable.

The theme of the prompts is rainbows, rings of hell and the seven deadly sins, which in itself is a load of days you can use as well.

What can I make?

You can make or write basically anything: haikus, limericks, 100 word drabbles, ficlets, long fics, traditional art, digital art, gifsets, cosplay, embroidery, etc.

Just keep the killings to the shows please, I don't need to be arrested for accessory to murder.

What about existing fanworks?

Feel free to link existing works you have completed in the past, but they need to be tagged accordingly so we can share the works on the blog and you get credit for the day. You can also recommend other's works (obviously crediting to the rightful creator) so that they can get credit for the day as well.

What if I'm not interpreting a prompt correctly?

If the prompt calls to you one way, but not another person's, that's fine. This is what we call the creative process and encourage it.

Is NSFW Allowed?

YES! For sure NSFW is allowed. Yes, we will reblog nsfw content. Do we feel uncomfortable with the possibilities of minors participating, yes, but we also trust that they know not to post nsfw content online. So don't do it.

We are allowing NSFW works because... HAVE YOU SEEN THE SHOWS?!?! Have you seen Asmodeus, or Hazbin Hotel episode 4? Yeah, those are nsfw, so can the content. BUT TAG ACCORDINGLY OR WE WILL NOT ACKNOWLEDGE IT!

Are there other events for HellaVerse?

Not that we know, but there is a @nimonabigbang happening. The writer applications close March 1st. Artist applications close April 1st and more information can be found on the blog, which is run by @random-nerd-posts and @zyrafowe-sny.

There's also a @nimona-week going on, which is run by Zyrafowe and you should give them a follow.

Feel free to participate in those if you liked the movie/comic or like shapeshifters!

Feel free to send an ask if you have additional questions. We will also be updating the FAQ as needed.

#hazbin hotel #helluva boss #hazbin hotel fandom #helluva boss fandom #hellaverse events #faqs #hellaverse week 2024

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squadxx4392 · 4 months

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Analyzing "Just Look My Way - Stolas' Lament" - Incomplete Version

So we all know that Stolas from Helluva Boss is very, very much in love with Blitzo(The 'o' is silent, so pronounced as 'Blitz').

However, throughout the series, Blitzo seems to be oblivious. An example of this is stated in the Helluva Boss series, "Hey! Stolas only cares about having a rugged peasant raw-dog him into his mattress, it's nothing.. y'know.. it's nothing else(Season Two, Episode Six, 10:12-10:20)."

Now, shortly after another episode of the series came out, season two episode seven, to be exact, a music video came out. It was a song for Stolas which, in the first minute, everyone could tell it was indefinitely about Blitzo.

The beginning of the music video starts with Stolas receiving an Asmodean Crystal from Asmodeous, the Sin of Lust, which Stolas had asked for in the sixth episode of season two, "...he needs to access the mortal realm to carry out his work. I know your demons are some of the only ones who can traverse freely and legally. I was wondering if you could help me find a way he could, too?(Season Two, Episode Six, 7:33-7:46)."

Throughout the music video, Blitzo is being compared to the full moon, which, as per an agreement the two made in the very first episode of the series, is a reference to their full moon contract.

Basically, their 'unspoken contract', as Stolas put it, is Blitzo gets to use Stolas' grimoire for his work, and because Stolas requires it to finish his duties with the Goetia family, they have a once monthly meeting on the full moon, where Stolas collects the grimoire and they have a night of 'passionate fornication'.

This is what makes Blitzo think of Stolas as a prick who doesn't want anything more than sex from him. This was stated in season one episode seven of the show, "Stolas, don't act like what we have is anything but you wanting me to f**k you, okay? You make that really clear all the time(Season One, Episode Seven, 14:36-14:43)." And this was what Stolas has realized what Blitzo thought of their relationship.

And so, in an effort to prove Stolas truly loves him and truly cares about more than sex, he is going to attempt to give Blitzo the crystal so he isn't made to associate with Stolas as he wouldn't require the grimoire to travel to Earth.

Now, back to the music video, which is what this analysis is truly about. We are going to be analyzing the lyrics of the song, and the meanings behind them.

After Stolas starts singing, he sings, "I am a guardian/a watcher of these ancient rites/yet I find myself drawn from that path/on those dazzling moonlit nights(Just Look My Way - Stolas' Lament, 0:30-0:46)." This is a reference to the full moon escapades he and Blitzo have.

"I can give you everything you need/Or do you want to hear me plead/Just look my way/Just look my way/Is there something more that I don't know/That you won't say 'til we've both grown cold/Just say 'please stay'/Look my way(Just Look My Way - Stolas' Lament, 0:47-1:33)." Through these lyrics, Stolas shows how much he truly cares about Blitzo. He is willing to plead with the Imp to show him how much he cares about him.

#lgbtq #gay #stolitz #stolas #blitzø #helluva boss #media analysis #helluva boss analysis #just look my way #stolas' lament #Just Look My Way - Stolas' Lament

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somelosercritiques · 5 months

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Helluva boss episode eight review‼️‼️

(I skipped seven because I decided I want to start with episodes I haven't watched yet)

The positive stuff

The voice acting was amazing if there's one that they'll get right it's everything that has to do with the voice work

There were actually some funny parts in the episode

Vortex is literally like one of four genuinely good characters in this entire franchise he just seems like a dude that would actually be cool to hang with

Finally, 40% of that song bee sung was good and the visuals were amazing

The negative stuff

Dear God where do I start with this one tbh 😭

Ok so I'll get one thing that confuses me about this entire world out of the way. This is less of a criticism or nitpick but more of a genuine question.

How the hell(lol) does time work in hell? Is there like a day night cycle? Are there hell timezones?? Is there a hell sun and moon??? How does time work in different rings???? Why do I keep increasing the question marks with each question I ask?????

But in all seriousness I just realized that there's time in hell so that's kinda weird to me

Ok now time for the actual critiques

I'll start with that God awful cotton candy song. Now to be honest I've never really liked Kesha. I don't hate her but she won't be on any of my playlists. I think she didn't technically sing the song but it's a Kesha song. Remember how I said I liked 40% of the song? Well that's because the chorus literally ruins the other 60%. It's so shitty and repetitive. Like saying two words over and over again is cocomelon levels of songwriting. Normally the chorus is the best part of a song but nope not here 💀

Bee as a character is very confusing in my opinion. Like when blitz was drinking himself to death why did she look sad?? She is the literal embodiment of gluttony. Like this part is genuinely annoying me the most why does she even care that he's getting black out drunk at a literal party? Is that not the point of those? And he has someone that could take him back home if needed so she should be even less worried. In my opinion it would've made more sense for tex to be the only one who cared about him.

Another thing that kind of annoys me is how much of an asshole loona is being for no reason. Bee showed her nothing but kindness and even was worried about her father but then she starts getting defensive for no reason?? Like girl you do realize you're lowkey picking a fight with a SIN.

Oh yeah and that girl that was bothering loona in the beginning of the episode was pretty much the average vivziepop female character. Bitchy and sassy for no reason and also did we mention she's skinny and white coded.

Luckily the last part of the episode was the funniest. When blitz starts breaking down on the couch I'm pretty sure everyone reading this had the exact same reaction as me LOL

Final thoughts

In all this episode was a waste of time and a strange diversion from the previous episode. The fact that this is a season finale is an insult to not only the fans but also all the episodes that came before it. This is more like an extra that should've been a short (like five minutes long). It would've worked much better. Or how about a better idea? Continue the plotline started last episode. This episode was a horrible way to introduce one of the most important figures in hell. 😭

Tbh I'm kinda dreading the next episode because I heard it was horrible and when the show started to decline but that's for tomorrows me to deal with

#helluva critical #helluva boss criticism

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vaggietheangel · 7 months

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Glitz and Glam remind me of Aria and Sonta. If they met Verosika she would be a perfect Adagio. 💚

#helluva boss #helluva boss spoilers #helluva boss season two #helluva boss season two episode seven #glitz and glam #glitz and Glam helluva boss

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dluebirb · 2 months

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Vivzieverse Demon Types

I'm making another AU, and I'm doing some research involving the demons and their subsequent rings with the Vivzieverse!

I'll go into all seven rings, themes, and attributes of their residents, as well as notable features and demons who reside there.

1. Pride Ring

This is the ring we are most frequently shown, due to it being the base of operations in Helluva Boss, and all sinners being confined to the pride ring, leading it to be the main setting, with very few members of the main cast able to venture to other rings.

Main occupants: Sinners, Imps, Succubi.

Noteable occupants: Lucifer Morningstar, Lilith Magne/Morningstar (formerly) Charlie Morningstar, Vaggie, Angel Dust, Alastor, Husker, Niffty, Cherri Bomb, Blitzo Buckzo, Moxxie Knolastname, Millie, Loona, etc.

Ruler: Lucifer Morningstar

Design Tips: Sinners are largely based on animals with a specific attachment to how they lived/died, though not all are. Sinners also retain marks of their death [ex. The 'x' on Alastor's forehead, presumably from where he was shot as a human, mistaken for a dear. Hence his dear-like form.]

See bottom for Imp design notes.

See The Lust Ring desc. for Succubi design notes.

Color: Red

2. Wrath Ring

This ring has been shown in the season one episode of Helluva Boss, "Harvest Moon Festival." Due to the sheer amounts of Imps here, with very, very few other species of demons, it is probable that Imps are native to the Wrath Ring.

Main occupants: Imps

Noteable Occupants: Millie (formerly), Millie's family, Striker

Ruler: Currently unknown. [I am aware that it is listed as Samael or Satan in most lists, but I'm going off of strictly Vivzieverse lore + characters]

Design Tips: See bottom for Imp design notes.

Color: Reddish-orange, Orange

3. Gluttony

The gluttony ring is home to most hellhounds as shown in part two of the season one of Helluva Boss, "Queen Bee." Hellhounds are most likely native to the Gluttony Ring.

Main occupants: Hellhounds, Imps

Noteable Occupants: Beezelbub, Vortex, Vikki, Vikki's friends, Esme, etc.

Ruler: Beezelbub

Design Tips: Hellhounds are largely based on, as the name suggests, dogs, wolves, and other hounds. They are among the very few demons to have visible ears, and almost always have fur in some capacity.

See bottom for Imp design tips.

Color: Yellow

4. Greed

The Gluttony Ring was first shown in the episode "Loo-Loo Land" during season one of Helluva Boss. It seems to be home to Hell's entertainment industry, barring the demon overlord, Vox, who is confined to the Pride Ring on the grounds of being a sinner. This ring seems to specialize, from what we've seen, in engineering and animatronics, as well as jesters/clown shows.

Main Occupants: Imps (?)

Noteable Occupants: Mammon, Moxxie Knolastname (formerly) Moxxie's mother (deceased) Crimson Knolastname, Crimson's Mafia, Chazwick Thurman (deceased)

Ruler: Mammon (?)

Design Tips: See bottom for Imp designs.

Color: Green

5. Lust

The Lust Ring was first shown in the season one episode of Helluva Boss, "Ozzie's". It houses the adult entertainment industry (though in a more tactful and consensual manner than the Pride Ring overlord, Valentino)

Main Occupants: Imps, Succubi

Noteable Residents: Asmodeous, Fizzarolli, Jesse

Ruler: Asmodeous

Design tips: Imps and Succubi are similar in design -- the horms of succubi tend to lean on the smaller side, and most have wings. Succubi seem to lack the malformed heart often on the upper center of some Imp's foreheads.

6. Envy

Very little is known about the Envy Ring, as it has not been shown yet in either Helluva Boss or Hazbin Hotel. It can be inferred that it is where the water from Lust runs down to, as most of it's assumed occupants are aquatic. It is possible that the Loan Sharks are from this ring. A social media app on Blitz's phone is supposedly from Envy.

Main Occupants: None known

Noteable Residents: Glitz and Glam (note the water imagery during their song in "Mammon’s Magnificent Musical Mid-Season Special ft. Fizzarolli" and one of the longer color changes is reminiscent of the purple of envy.)

Ruler: Currently Unknown

Design Tips: wavy characteristics would be most fitting, as well as undersea animal attributes such as fins.

Color: A color palette of blues, greens, or purples is typical.

7. Sloth

Sloth was first seen in the season two episode of Helluva Boss, "Western Energy" and seems to run the medical industry. As mentioned by Beelzebub in "Queen Bee," Sloth also has a vast supply of "party drugs," and most likely several intoxicants in general, some for medical use, others for recreational use. Water from the upper Rings flows down in waterfalls.

Main Occupants: Baphoments

Notable Residents: Dr. Somna, Muffy, unnamed nurses

Ruler: Belphegor

Design Tips: The Baphoments have goat-like attributes, down to the hooves and horns. Many, if not all, have a candle and flame sticking from their heads. Some have wings.

Color: Purplish pinks

IMPS:

Imps have traditionally red skin due to their roots in the Wrath ring, though others have a variety. All have large horns, and most have a malformed heart on the upper center of their foreheads. Burns and other spots appear white.

It is also worth noting that the imps reside in all seven rings, I just listed the rings where I noticed a very large number of them in the backgrounds.

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I hope this was helpful! I watched several Helluva Boss episodes while typing this, so I hope it's accurate!

#helluva boss #vivzieverse #hazbin hotel #rings of hell #moth with a megaphone #fanfiction help #I'll probably expand on this later #this is just to get my thoughts down

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shortbreadly · 7 months

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they did NOT approach you from across the room blitzo and they do NOT like your vibe

#they’d fuck anyway probably #helluva boss #helluva boss spoilers #helluva boss season two #helluva boss episode seven #helluva boss mammon’s magnificent musical mid-season special #helluva boss blitzo #helluva boss fizzarolli #helluva boss ozzie #helluva boss asmodeus #helluva boss fizzarozzie

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eldritchpenguin44 · 11 months

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Helluva Boss theory: Belphegor might end being a Doctor of some kind.

So in the recently released Season 1 Episode 8, we meet another of the Seven Deadly Sins Beelzebub. During her first interaction with Loona, she mentions how she would have thrown a bigger party but She couldn't convince Belphegor to let her break into Belphegor’s stash of Party drugs.

On Blitzo’s Phone and in Stolas’s flashback in the episodes Ozzie's and The Circus respectively there are two types of pills in this world Sleepy Pillz and Happy Pillz.

from what we saw of the Sloth Ring in Season 2 Episode 4 it seems to be more Medical-Based with Hospitals and Clinics treating all kinds of Hellborn Demons from Hellhounds to Demon Royalty.

From what I can gather from all these hints it seems that Belphegor will be a doctor of some kind or at least have some sort of connection to the Pharmaceutical/ Medical industry. Though I’m not sure what her circus theme will be since all the other sins have a circus theme to them For Example Lucifer represents the Ring Leader, Beelzebub represents a Animal Tamer, and Mammon from little we’ve seen of him being a jester since various iconography in the show depicts him with a Jesters hat.

(Sidenote please correct me if I get anything wrong. I’m not that well-versed in demonology and I'm still very new to the show I'm only going off what I could gather so this could be disproved once we see her in either Hazbin or HB)

#Helluva boss #Belphegor #theory #Helluva boss theory #sloth ring #sloth #Beelzebub

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anthurak · 2 years

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So this might be the thing that catches me some serious flack, but this has been bugging me about the Helluva Boss fandom for a while now.

Specifically, I feel like people have been parading around the whole ‘Octavia is 17/ a minor!’ point just a bit too much at this point. Particularly whenever someone seems to even think about shipping Octavia with Loona.

Heck, as I’ve stated previously, I don’t even ship Loona and Octavia romantically (I see them more as a very close, emotionally intimate, platonic friendship with perhaps a few vaguely romantic elements), and even I’m thinking that all this is a bit much.

For one, as I brought up in my post on my issues with the ‘wholesome adoptive sisters’ take on Loona and Octavia, going by the implied timeline of the show thus far, Octavia has to be VERY close to eighteen at this point. The first season of the show clearly takes place over the better part of a year, with there being 6-7 months between episodes three and five alone.

However, the big sticking point for me is how this is all starting to feel a bit infantilizing. Like the fandom has become fixated on this idea that Octavia is ‘just a kid’ and ‘needs to be protected’. And the thing is, that is NOT how the actual show seems to be portraying Octavia, ie; Octavia is not a ‘kid’ anymore.

In fact, Stolas himself has said as much.

During his big ‘We are getting a divorce!’ fight with Stella in The Circus, Stolas admits that the only reason he put up with Stella’s abuse was for Octavia’s happiness. And later, he states; “the only thing the Goetia family wanted from our marriage (Octavia) is already 17, so it’s done!”

It’s not difficult to see Stolas’s reasoning here; he is saying that the only thing that has been keeping him from getting a divorce from Stella is so their child could grow up with some semblance of a happy family. And now that child has grown up, so Stolas no longer has any reason to keep up the hollow charade of his marriage to Stella.

There’s also some interesting implications to Stolas’s line about Octavia being ‘the only thing the family wanted’ and being ‘already 17’ if you start reading between the lines. We know from earlier in the episode that Octavia was originally sired as a ‘precautionary heir’ to the Goetia bloodline. Basically, Octavia seems to be a ‘backup heir’ meant to inherit the family if something were to happen to the likely five, six, seven+ more ‘important’ kids in the line of succession. And Stolas’s line seems to imply that Octavia has reached an age where she is now capable of inheriting the family lineage, should it come to that. If not Hell’s age of majority, than at least an ‘age of inheritance’. Which means that the family has gotten what they wanted out of Stolas’s marriage to Stella, so once again, he now longer has any reason to put up with her abuse anymore.

And the following episode ‘Seeing Stars’ has further reinforced this idea of Octavia NOT being a kid anymore. The entire inciting incident of the episode has Octavia running away from home after she feels she can’t rely on her dad. We even get an entire insert song about someone running away from their dysfunctional home and finding they very much LIKE being independent and doing their own thing. And by the end of the episode, Octavia gets the emotional comfort and closure she desperately needs NOT from a reunion with dad, but from another young woman who is very much a kindred spirit to her.

One of the things that’s made me really doubt the ‘wholesome sisterly’ interpretation of these two is simply how their scene don’t really seem to have that tone.

With all the dialogue, lighting and music, the whole scene comes off as less ‘wholesome’ and more ‘melancholic’. It’s about Octavia and Loona discussing some very heavy issues that don’t have easy or simple answers, showing some real vulnerability, and bonding not because their dads happen to have a thing going on, but because these two clearly relate to and understand each other. It all gives the scene a sense of maturity, and certainly doesn’t present either of these two as ‘kids’.

Heck, the scene even has a few vaguely romantic elements, such as Octavia lighting Loona’s cigarette, the strong sense of emotional intimacy and the warm, intimate lighting and music. Sure, as people have pointed out, Loona and Octavia aren’t actually blushing, but with the choice of lighting I’d argue the effect is definitely there.

Now to be clear, as I’ve said earlier, I don’t think the show is doing any kind of romance between Loona and Octavia. Rather, I think these vaguely romantic elements serve to highlight the maturity of the scene. Highlight the fact that these aren’t kids, but rather two young adults.

It all points to the simple fact that the narrative is not treating Octavia as ‘just a kid’. But rather a young adult. As I discussed in my previous post, it really feels like the narrative isn’t pushing Loona and Octavia as two kids or teens bonding as sisters just because their dads are getting together. But rather as two young adults forming a very close, emotionally intimate friendship based on shared interests and a deep, mutual understanding of what the other is going through as they try to figure their family issues out. And largely disconnected from whatever their dads have going on together.

Do I see the show having Loona and Octavia get together romantically? Again, very unlikely. Do I ship them romantically? Again, not particularly. Certainly not as they are currently in the show. The only context where I find a Loona/Octavia romance potentially interesting is a ‘4/5+ years down the line’ situation, where they’ve been super close for a long time and it’s one of those ‘loosely-defined place between friendship and romance but they’re basically soulmates at this point’ dynamics.

But regardless of whether I ship these two or not, I do get the feeling that a lot of the fandom has latched just a little too hard onto the idea that Octavia is ‘just a kid’, rather than someone the story is presenting as being at the end of their teenage years and beginning to figure out their independence as a young adult. Like at this point I’m starting to get just a little concerned that when we get an episode involving or even just mentioning Octavia’s 18th birthday, there’s going to be some blowback/discourse simply because the creators are showing Octavia turning eighteen.

For the same reason I feel that a lot of the fandom has latched a bit too hard on the interpretation of Loona and Octavia having some ‘wholesome sisterly dynamic’, I have a feeling that a good chunk of the fandom’s interpretation of these characters, and more importantly their expectations for these characters in the show going forward, aren’t actually what the writers are planning for them.

#helluva boss #helluva boss analysis #octavia goetia #helluva octavia #loona #helluva loona #stolas goetia #fandom criticism #octavia is not 'just a kid'

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