I cannot! 😂

I wish I didn't feel bad for Viserys I & Alicent's children.

I wish Helaena wasn't an innocent person, maybe then I wouldn't feel like someone cut me personally with a knife every time I see a brain dead Daemon fan defend what he did to her & her children.

I wish Daeron wasn't a 16 year old child soldier, maybe then I could forget about him and the end he didn't deserve.

I wish Aemond wasn't brutalized by his own family member who his own piece of shit father sided with after he was mutilated, maybe then I could have hoped he suffered more instead.

I wish Aegon didn't usurp the throne out of desire to protect his family and I wish he saw Sunfyre as a disposable weapon of war. If he was the one dimensional power hungry misogynist TB sees him as, maybe then I wouldn't care that he watched almost everyone he loved and sought to protect die before him.

I don't want to have sympathy for them, it would have been so much easier for me to get over them if they were just Maegor clones, but I can't.

How am I not supposed to feel bad?

While there isn't that much to book! Helaena but what we know so far that she was a happy, gentle, and brave girl who claimed a fierce and old dragon like dreamfyre when she was only 11/13. Who was also so loved by the smallfolk apparently and was politically involved before b&c destroyed her, i just don't understand how and why the showrunners tried to minimise Helaena's role (it was already small in f&b) and turned her into a lonely somber character who has no personality traits beside being obsessed with bugs, even her prophecies only makes her a walking talking spoiler it's not even written in an interesting way like asoiaf!bran or dany or melisandre etc.... and then they have the nerve to call their writing feminist 💀

Hi anon! I really had to think about this one, because I agree that compared to her brothers, show!Helaena gets a pretty shallow characterization. One of the problems I think with show!Helaena is that while they've given her more of a personality, they haven't given her a motivation. There is nothing wrong with her being a neurodivergent bug girl with prophesies, and I think even her visions could be an interesting twist to her character, but the show failed to convey what drives Helaena, or even show how she feels about the conflict.

Granted, Helaena's characterization in the book is kind of thin, but I'd argue that book!Aemond's characterization, for instance, is also thin. Aemond is a mean asshole with a chip on his shoulder, but the show went out of its way to humanize him by giving him motivation, backstory, and an arc that will likely follow him through the show. Even Luke, who literally exists within the story to start conflict, is given doubts about being the heir to Driftmark and the need to prove himself. But Helaena? We have no idea what drives her. I want to know how Helaena envisions herself within this conflict! So she has prophesies, and she tries to communicate them, but that's not working. Now what? She and Aegon are both crying at his coronation, but we have a good idea why Aegon is crying. What about Helaena? Is it because she's seen their doom? Is she sad for Aegon? Does she feel like her family is doing the wrong thing on a moral level? And has she told anyone how she feels? And this is where the prophesy part gets lost because if Helaena's visions are coherent enough that she knows crowning Aegon is a bad idea, then why does she only speak them in cryptic riddles? She's capable of expressing herself relatively clearly otherwise, so the riddles are a contrived way to keep anyone, including Helaena, from acting on those visions, or the rest of her family from realizing she has them at all. So the visions add a tragic element to her character, but don't actually give Helaena anything to do, plotwise. This is a character whose death is the catalyst for the riots which drive Rhaenyra from the city, so there is certainly material there to work with.

And the thing is, Blood and Cheese, an absolutely inarguably evil act, is going to happen to Helaena early on in the second season, and when that happens, Helaena becomes the so-called "perfect victim." Helaena's character is something of a cipher, someone that the viewer can project their own values and assumptions onto. We have Helaena who is secretly in love with Aemond, Helaena who had a loving relationship with Rhaenyra, Helaena who was a good wife to Aegon, Helaena who loved Aegon as a brother but not a wife, Helaena who was Otto's favorite, Helaena who didn't care about the family feud, and all of these Helaenas exist simultaneously without really directly contradicting anything that was shown on screen. And because she remains this blank slate character, it is acceptable to sympathize with her even though her side is in conflict with Rhaenyra. The viewer can say, "well Helaena didn't deserve that, she was innocent!" But the thing is, no one deserves what happened to Helaena and her children. Helaena does not need to be perfectly neutral for her to be a victim, to have never held an unkind thought against Rhaenyra for her suffering to matter. This idea that someone cannot be worthy of any sympathy or empathy unless their hands are completely clean absolutely permeates this fandom (just look at the reaction to Alicent), and online discourse at large, and whether the show realizes it or not, they've played into it by making Helaena the "true innocent," as if she were a child with no agency of her own, when she is actually a beloved queen, an adult, a dragonrider and a mother.

That's not to say the show couldn't give her more to do in season 2, they could. Maybe Blood and Cheese will motivate her and she will take action. Hopefully, if the show follows the book and makes her beloved of the smallfolk, it will be for something other than how beautifully she suffers.

the greens, as of right now "work" because they're all messily swimming in this cesspool of fucked up family dynamics. The kids each have their own hangups and gimmicks.

With this in mind, They gotta make daeron different enough from his siblings so that he's not just blending into the background and they also need to make him rounded enough so that the audience can see how he "fits" in to their dynamic

personally i wouldn't mind seeing unhinged, delusional, gay/bi, religious Daeron for this reason. it sets him apart so that he can stand as his own character and it's a fun characterization that i could easily see fitting into the green family.

I'm not enough of a book purist to not being able to enjoy headcanons, crackships etc (as a matter of fact I do love them). But seeing newbies unironically and completely serious considering aemond to "trying to be the perfect son", or "heleana is the people's princess" or "rhaenyra is calm, collected and strategic", "Daemon is the family's clown, the agent of chaos" legit gives me a headache because they are nothing like that.

And I'm not talking about ppl writing fanfics with this type of characterization, but ppl legit having takes based on the terrible portrayal of the show. And even when they go to read f&b they still have the image the show gave them because they don't seem capable of letting go.

it just feels like Jon Snow/Daenerys Targaryen character assassination all of again.

There are so many people who consider Jon to be basically ned 2.0 and Dany a mad queen-girlboss-slay

I just wish we could seperate books from adaptations. That's all

the weird thing about the sarah hess interview (there are a lot of weird things about that interview but if i talked about all of them this would be the length of a phd dissertation) is that, like, if you want us to give some sympathy to aegon and acknowledge the complexities behind him not wanting to rule but wanting it and his relationship with alicent and his siblings and rhaenyra and all that without the audience getting hung up on him being a rapist, don’t write him being a rapist? you are a writer on the show sarah, you’re the one who decides and this was an easily solvable problem

I’m just here thinking how the hotd writers, in their attempt to whitewash Alicent and make her more sympathetic, stripped her completely off her agency and ambition and now Aegon ended up being a more interesting character than her.

i’m sorry but if i have to see aemond getting with some white girl next season i’m licherally gonna go feral. like alys is a bastard with no specified mother so queen could literally be anything. maybe her mother was from dorne or essos like the possibilities are endless. writers i’m begging you pleaseee take liberties with alys where you can and give us some flavourrr

I’ve said this before but alys looks younger than her age not bc of magic or bathing in blood, but bc she’s not fully white. George literally told me!

Her mother is from the Summer isles

what has Rhaenyra done all season long besides have sex and lust after Daemon 😮‍💨😮‍💨😮‍💨

I'm about to end tumblr it won't let me post an ask I wrote out for like an hour I tried a million times and it keeps saying 'there's an issue processing your post'

I’ve been working on the (most of) the Greens live AU of Neither Snake nor Dragon, and my little joke about Elayne and Aemond having unresolved self-esteem issues is coming back to haunt me, because the AU is basically me trying to resolve said unresolved issues. Also Helaena is causing DramaTM as well, but honestly she deserves to.

Helaena & Aegon's Relationship -- A Book Reader Explaining How They Got Some Truths or Conclusions Out of an Unreliable Narrator/Account

Also can be found on Twitter HERE.

*HEADCANON*

Art Credit by fkaluis

There's really no reason to think that F&B is unreliably telling/twisting this moment, as this part is told through Munkun/Orwyle, Orwyle who was there to witness Alicent putting out this search party for Aegon to get him quickly crowned.

QUOTE of Helaena about Aegon's Whereabouts (in case pic below is illegible, not sure about pic quality)

Yes, Orwyle was writing to paint himself as non-complicit/innocuous as possible to avoid execution during his imprisonment.

Yes, Helaena is reported to be a "pleasant", seemingly non-confrontational person.

Yes, there is the possibility that he wasn't in the room when Helaena answered the searchers.

However, again, what we know of Aegon, his raping, his philandering, the fact he wasn't present and in the room with Helaena and had to be looked for maybe a few hours before being found and then found with a 12-year-old (he was in his early 20s), speaks volumes about their relationship alone. We do not hear anything that shows Aegon was even involved in his kids' development or nurturing or hung out with them, just because.

Meanwhile we absolutely, at least, know that Viserys kept Rhaenyra close to him at the feast while Aemma was alive, & even more so after he named her heir. (Viserys has got his own parenting issues even with Rhaenyra, but he was definitely loving towards Aemma & Rhaenyra and was present. Rhaenyra would have remembered him as putting in that parental effort).

We absolutely know that Baela and Rhaena, Aegon III and Viserys II & all the Velaryon boys were close with, trusted, or worshipped Daemon by:

Jace trusting him with Dragonstone and the Seeds

no would-have-been-used-against-Daemon rumor; not even rumors of contention between any of them (same guy -Daemon- that people feared? Plz they'd be talking)

Baela being described as the female version of Daemon, or her going through mourning him by being "wild" as Aegon's council saw it

Rhaena herself having Daemon's fire (fear of reaction to her 1st husband's death, love for attention, etc)

Aegon III likely naming his daughter after him & Daena naming her son (the Blackfyre) after her grandfather Daemon (indicates Aegon expressed his love for Daemon to her)

And there is absolutely no indication that Aegon II's relationship with Helaena mirrored anything like Jaehaerys x Alysanne/Daemon x Rhaenyra/Alyssa x Baelon/Aemon x Jocelyn/Rhaenys x Corlys. The Targ/Valyrian couples have the most romantic stories of the ASoIaF universe (as told by narrative).

Even in the more contentious couples' (of my list) earliest, most romantic years. Not a one. No reports of longing glances, hushed conversations ignoring the rest of the room as if they were in a bubble, screams of pleasure, tender arm holding, flying their dragons together, no famous words of affection or appreciation of the other's attributes. Nothing.

And Helaena being a "pleasant" person does not negate the ability to establish boundaries, fight back when alarmed/annoyed/feeling intruded on, or had some Targaryen pride herself. Or have some self-possession.

So really, we absolutely can & should take as fact, that Helaena said what I quoted about Aegon not being in her bed.

QUOTE of Helaena before Jaehaerys' Death

Aegon & Helaena, despite some people's insistence, were never close & were never in love & were never a true couple. And Aegon was never a good father, nor a good husband or person all on his own merit.

Anyway, back to the prime point: we as readers have managed to understand characters, their motivations, relationships, etc even though the entire account of the Dance and before the Dance/war IS made up of many sources w/agendas 7 biases before we look at "So Spake Martin"/"The Citadel 'ASoIaF' Archive"--or anything like those--websites.

But of course, some people already know & acknowledge some FACTS about these characters from these sources, but will thump their way into ad-hominems and divergent tangents just to avoid it & affirm themselves.

“He’s always angry, but we haven’t done anything.”

“…but I have a crooked finger, just like Mama!”

“We were born here. Mama is our mother.”

“I do not wish to be different.” “Nor do I.”

“So let us be good sons and please those who love us, so they may forget what we lack.”

I’m never going to recover from this. Once again scenes were removed that would add to both boys characterizations, and we all know why. The scenes would make the audience realize how Aemond’s ‘I’m being bullied for not having a dragon :( I’m the real victim!’ storyline so fallible and easy to shatter in universe because it’s a completely normal occurrence for Targaryen’s. Aemond is not the first child to not have a dragon by the age of ten, the original conqueror’s, Baelon, Alyssa, Rhaenys, Laena, Viserys, Daemon, Aegon II, Helaena, etc. all claimed young or fully grown dragons somewhere between the ages of 11-18.

The only character that had the potential to be marketed as his biggest bully is his brother. They’re never going to convince me (and many others) that it was Rhaenyra’s sons who would ever go after another child for their lack of a dragon, especially given that they were almost surely taught that hatching a cradle egg is but one way for a Targaryen to have a dragon. Aemond felt lesser than his nephews due to the way Alicent was parenting him. She led him to believe that his nephews were bastards, that due to their blood they were beneath him, and this is what led to his inferiority complex. It makes more sense than the crock of shit the show runners decided to include in the show.

Rhaenyra and her sons were subjected to actual abuse and bigotry over the timeskip due to their gender and their blood, respectively. It very much makes me sick how they’re being treated by not only the show runners, but a decent portion of the audience as well. Bastardphobia is not cool or edgy. Looking down on someone because their parents weren’t married is vile. It falls into the same category as believing in blood supremacy. It’s 2024. Do better.

Jace and Luke will forever be Mama’s boys and are never beating the best brothers/sons allegations.

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People in the ASOIAF fandom are very obsessed with passive women they can project onto. The obsessions with the characters of show!Alicent, Sansa, Elia, and Helaena are perfect examples of this.

In the show, Alicent is changed from a woman who actively seeks power and heads the scheming of the green faction into a passive victim who watches and reacts to the men around her. And yet, despite this being a much more boring characterization, the show version is vastly more preferred by her stans. They condemn her book character as simply an "evil stepmother trope" while completely ignoring how their fav is just as blank and tropey as they accuse her book counterpart to be. Alicent stans want her to be the show's blank victimized canvas.

Helaena is someone who the show changed very little in the adaptation, because both book and show Helaena have little impact on the plot other than to be victims of their surroundings. Both women are forced to marry Aegon at thirteen and have his children, go through B&C, and are the least active members of the green faction. The show only added elements to make her more tragic: her dreaming and autistic behaviors. Helaena's character makes her the perfect canvas for certain fans to project themselves onto as she simply exists to be victimized and play the dutiful wife/daughter despite her circumstances, just like the show version of her mother.

Elia Martell is a woman who we know very little about. She died thirteen years before the events of ASOIAF and, unlike characters like Rhaegar and Lyanna, she has no pov characters who think about her enough for us to learn anything about her. The only things we know are that she was loved by her family, was in an arranged marriage to Rhaegar, had his two (confirmed) children, and was brutally raped and murdered by Lannister men. She is an unknown character and, again unlike Rhaegar and Lyanna, has no known active role in the events surrounding the Rebellion. Because of these things, she is, again, the perfect blank canvas for people to project on.

Sansa is, despite being a prominent pov character in ASOIAF, a very passive character. She rarely takes action in her circumstances and simply reacts to them while trying to survive. There's nothing wrong with this, she's a young girl who has never had to fight for anything in her life, it's not unexpected or condemnable for her reaction to her circumstances to be this way. However, her passivity is something her stans obsess over. She is praised for being the "perfect lady" and they project their desires to see her rule onto her and how they view her story.

These women have been chosen by these fans because of their passivity and tragedy. They love that the women have suffered in the name of the "duty" they believe is higher than them. Because they love passivity, they hate the women of ASOIAF who are active in their own lives and fight to better their circumstances. Characters like Rhaenyra, Arya, Daenerys, and Lyanna are all massive influences on the world and purposely chose to challenge the patriarchy. Since they did not take their suffering silently, theses certain fans view them as wrong and hate them. They only love the women they can project on and who simply refuse to fight for better lives.

Fic Recs!

I decided to grab a few fics that I was recently introduced to as well as fics I haven't seen get a lot of traction in the space. This is just a personal list that I wanted to share!

@corporalicent's Rhaenicent Fics at AO3 - Cata is a beast when it comes to writing this ship (as well as other fandoms!) and has some really creative AUs out there: I mean come on: Nun!Rhaenyra and Novice!Alicent? We're here for that!

@lullaebies GenderSwapped!Green Kids AU Protector of the Realm on AO3 - So Helaena is now the only *son* of Viserys and Alicent, and Aegon/Aemond/Daeron were born girls. How intriguing is that! They are on a break for right now but go give that fic a look! Not to mention they write Aegon III/Jaehaera content that I just think is chef's kiss.

@dragonsoftheeast Firebender!Targaryen/No Dragons Dance AU Fire Made Flesh on AO3 - Um Hi, Helaena being the one to lose the eye? Actual good political matches. Unparralelled usage of High Valyrian and Valyrian Culture world building???? Sign me the fuck up! Dote is an amazing crafter of such a unique and fantastic canon divergence and I am constantly surprised more people aren't squealing about this amazing story that packs in so many twists and turns and is truly so thoughtful.

@theothermaidoftarth writing some Baela/Daeron and is currently working on Nettles/Cregan check out Song for Evermore on AO3 - Rare Pairs are a precious thing in any fandom and my girl is killing it with some fascinating ideas and utterly fantastic characterizations. We love IC AUs!

@gwenllian-in-the-abbey is leading the Baela/Aegon ship with her solo fic All Kings Are Beautiful on AO3, an 'Aegon was named heir' AU, as well as her other co-written work - Gwen's work reads like a historical fiction novel and that's really my favorite kind of thing. I haven't been able to read everything she's done but man, the nuance! The stakes! the ideas! She brings what I love to call an Old School A Song of Ice and Fire fic vibe to HotD space and I mean this with the highest of praise.

@selfproclaimedunicorn is writing Sins of the Father on AO3 because what if Rhea and Daemon actually had some kids but things still went sideways? - HELLO! MISA? Misa's talent for burying her fingers into every character we see and pulling out all the bits and bobs that make them tick? Is just.. I want to write this well when I grow up. The way she has seamlessly altered canon to the point where I'll see gifsets of scenes and go 'Where are Yorick and Ella?'. Also she has an Alicent x OC fic, and I would lay my life down for Aldreda Farwynd, my tall seal mommy.

@mimikoflamemaker is writing Daemon centric OC fic the False Dragon on AO3 - I haven't been able to dive into this yet but have talked fic and plotting with Justine. Their passion for the source is palpable and her creative ideas deserve to reach more people! Vaerra and Elyas are fascinating OCs with intriguing connections that you do not want to miss!

@jotterjots / @bronzefuryfic is also writing a 'What if Daemon and Rhea had a daughter' AU, Bronze Fury both on tumblr and AO3 - JJ is a real one and I always enjoy her insights. I actually had NO IDEA! that she was writing fic but from what I've read, it looks fantastic!

@acrossthesestars is writing Haunt Me, an Aemond War Bride AU that has me by the throat on AO3 - It's not a list without mentioning this amazing fic that's almost to the finish line. Alex's command of conflict and characterization where characters are allowed to be imperfect is something more of us need to dive into! We love a byronic lead in Aemond where all his edges and issues are fully acknowledged, a wily and fantastic female lead in Wylla Karstark, and just an overall amazing AU where these characters are clawing for their happy ending.

@branwendaughterofllyr is writing a 'What if Vizzy and Daemon's youngest brother lives and has a daughter' AU, A poison Tree on AO3 - I haven't been able to dig into this yet but it's just such a fascinating and original concept to make this Dance make a little more sense, and bring more high stakes. She's a long time ASOIAF writer who is passionate about the source material and here to show you what this world can be. Do go check her work out!

No one understands me as an Alicent stan and Rhaenyra hater when I say that we needed more scenes of them with their firstborns.

Look at me in the eyes and tell me they weren't necessary. I'm talking both of them. I'm talking Jace and Aegon. The firstborns. The first ones that were brought forth from their bodies and put on their chests when they were more or less girls. Girls who's views on motherhood and girlhood had been ruined by the same men. Their living doom. Their living blessing.

How did Rhaenyra cope with her pregnancy when we as viewers KNOW just how she felt about it by looking at her mother and how she lived with a man who made her grieve five brothers and sisters? How did her mind change?

How did Alicent feel in the birthing bed? Did she fear she'd be treated just like Aemma? Was her relief about Aegon, who had just been born, or more about the fact that she had been spared? Did that fear continue with all her children? With Helaena, Aemond and Daeron too?

How does Rhaenyra feel when her own firstborn son questions and doubts her, as he should? How does Alicent feel when her own firstborn becomes the way he does, after all she's done?

How does Jace feel about Rhaenyra naming him heir, despite the whispers about him and his brothers?

How does Aegon feel about his mother playing the same game as his grandfather, just managing to act way more sweetly and lovingly about it instead of treating him as a puppet, a token, a toy? While teaching about the art of deceiving through speech in the same breath?

These points are so much more interesting than treating a teenage girl's r*pe as some sort of profound nuance and morally gray characterism. (For the r*pist)

Is there REALLY no one else who sees WASTED AF potential? Like at all? Like in a "explore this in season 2 or we bomb HBO" way?

HELLO?!