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#fandom stop being hostile towards different depictions of their own ships
chat-dank · 10 months
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You have the right to like your Angbang intense. You have the right to like your Angbang fucked up. You have the right to like your Angbang unhinged. You have the right to like your Angbang harmful. But you also have a right to like your Angbang fluffy, too. You are not woobifying them if you like it soft or write a fic where they say they love each other or kiss or high five or take a bite from the same sandwich or whatever. You have a different interpretation, that’s all. You’re not committing some horrid unforgivable atrocity against your fandom. You’re not an “annoying fan” if you want your ships happy, even if other people dislike you for it, the same way you are not an “annoying fan” if you like your ships intense and other people dislike you for it. You’re not a mean person for having an opinion that the majority dislikes. You’re an individual human being who has an opinion and your opinion is worth JUST as much as every other opinion in your fandom. Because that’s how opinions work. You’re not disregarding canon any more than people who bend it to fit their other non-canon ships or headcanons or other interpretations of this ship or their interpretation of any other ship or anything else that JRRT or Christopher or the Tolkien estate disagree with. We all see a piece of media and interpret it differently. It doesn’t make any of us better or worse for it. Ship and let ship. 
#Can the#Silmarillion#fandom stop being hostile towards different depictions of their own ships#for five minutes?#Yeah another post about#angbang#Remember how the Tolkien estate was FURIOUS with the LOTR trilogy for the changes that were made?#Remember how millions of people still saw the films and fell in love with LOTR and Middle Earth and the very concept of fantasy regardless?#Children who never saw another LOTR adaptation prior and adults who remember the Bakshi version& their localized low-budget tv adaptations#all saw it and agreed that a story made with so much love still deserves to be told even if there were changes made to the source material#If a story or a headcanon or an opinion about a ship or a fanwork or an interpretation is made with love to bring people joy...#it has the right to be shared#even if those people aren't the majority by the way#Did Jackson woobify Aragorn by giving him extra angst? If so.. where are all the takes about bad fans liking woobified angsty movie Aragorn?#Remember the times before the 2-3 artists who often drew supportive angbang left when people kept giving them crap for their depictions?#And now you don't see that art anymore either on tumblr or at all. Does that make anyone happy? did anyone accomplish their goals?#Why make people leave again? Do you hate differing opinions so much that they do not deserve the right to exist?#Does it genuinely make anyone happy to try rid a fandom of all ideas they disagree with them their preexisting friends' ones? Why?#I'm so old I still remember when it was common fandom etiquette to NOT tag the thing you were insulting without the word 'anti' before it.#...Do I need to keep going or can we ship and let ship now and NOT mock people for having a different take on a FICTIONAL pairing?
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g-perla · 4 years
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From “Nessian Shipper!!” to “Nessian…Shipper??”
This...is going to be a long one so strap in.
Years ago when ACOMAF came out and the kind people of tumblr posted screenshots of the Wings and Embers short, I found myself looking at Nesta and Cassian, considering the idea of them being romantically and physically involved, and found myself with the following thought; that’s my SHIP. These feelings were reinforced throughout the smattering of brief interactions between the two we got in ACOWAR, probably until the very end where it was unclear if Cassian had gone to see Nesta before or after she headed up the stairs seeming distinctly not ok. That wasn’t a very big deal though. For all I know he did, and she pushed him away, or maybe they did have a talk. Feyre’s perspective is very limited after all. This didn’t really stop my Nessian shipper heart at all.
My Nessian shipper heart became compromised in ACOFAS and in the teaser to ACOSF. I still haven’t re-read ACOFAS so I just want to make it clear that I’m still dealing with 2+ years of accumulated messy, largely unexplored feelings about this ship. That being said, I wasn’t very impressed by Cassian’s behaviour towards Nesta. The interactions between them we were shown left me questioning the stability of a ship I had previously loved with reckless abandon. I questioned Cassian, I questioned Nesta, I questioned their independent trajectories, and them as a couple in the context we were given. My conclusion was that I could no longer really ship them as eagerly in good conscience.
A week or so ago I wrote in a post that Cassian seems, to me, ashamed of Nesta. This idea came to me after considering his behaviour mostly in ACOFAS and to a lesser degree in the previous books. A post by @inyourmindeye, where they put forth their arguments about why Cassian isn’t ashamed of Nesta made me reconsider, however. I read their post carefully and took some time to gather my thoughts after taking in this other perspective. I will share them now.
First, I will say that the word “ashamed” perhaps isn’t the most exact word to express how I feel about Cassian’s complex emotions when it comes to Nesta. I think a more apt word would be conflicted. Second, I want to clarify that when I wrote “ashamed” I didn’t mean to imply that he didn’t care about Nesta. Feeling ashamed of something or someone because of the feelings of attraction or care one might have is certainly possible. Additionally, these emotions aren’t necessarily contradictory, nor do they necessarily depend on each other. They do, however, complicate each other and create conflict.
But what exactly is the source of Cassian’s possibly conflicted feelings?
In the most simplistic sense, I suggest the source is Nesta and the Inner Circle. Or rather, Nesta v. the Inner Circle.
Many in the fandom and some of my own posts have discussed the inherent incompatibilities between Nesta and the IC (as depicted in the canon texts we have access to as of 21/10/20). These incompatibilities are largely ideological such as different definitions of “free will” and agency. Nesta simply does not tolerate the messy dynamics of the IC and the tacit acknowledgement that Rhys has the most authority. For Nesta to fit into this world, she would have to abandon the elements of her character that constitute her core self and which make her subversive within the narrative and without: a disdain towards authority, a resolute mind that isn’t easily moved, quick to anger and abrasive and hostile in her expressions of this anger, but capable of making concessions if the situation gnaws at her strict moral code, morally grey, not nurturing, generally unpleasant to those she doesn’t trust, judgemental, unapologetic in her sexuality or in her femininity, lacking in patience when it comes to idiots and sycophants, critical to a fault, not immune to enacting cruelty, etc. See, if this were a man and if this book had been written during the Romantic period and we were reading it now we would just say “well, I’ll be! What a text-book example of a compelling Byronic hero! We love to see it.”
Note how the men (sorry, males) in SJM novels tend to have many of these same characteristics. They are also pretty good examples of Byronic heroes. The main difference is the energy most people bring when they criticise women. One of the characteristics of a Byronic hero is his refusal to be confined. This confinement can be moral, ideological, epistemological, or physical. Basically, people in the world of such a hero (or even in ours) can’t compute when they encounter him and are unable to put him in easy categories. This often manifests as irrational hatred towards this character because it offends our sensibilities about what is known and what is unknown.
It’s attractive to think that we are immune to this as people existing in the 21st century, but we are not. We still rely on the “Other” to define our identity by both creating it and violently rejecting it. I suppose it’s as good a time as any to share the thesis of my overarching analysis project; basically, Nesta is the ultimate representation of the Other. She is Other in her womanhood (or I guess femaleness), she was Other even as a human, now that she is high fae she is Other to humans but tragically she is also Other to the high fae because she was Made. She is Other as a magical being, she is Other to the IC, she was and is Other to her bio family. She is Other to many of us because we simply cannot comprehend her actions in ACOTAR (how could she have been so cruel????). As of now, there is not a single place where Nesta can exist without offending the very core of what a lot of people value.
One framework for the Other was proposed by the French psychoanalyst Jaques Lacan. He basically said that the Other is that which we must reject when we start forming a concept of the Self. The Self is the known therefore safe; the Other is the unknown therefore dangerous and disruptive. The Self creates the symbolic order which is essentially the blueprint of accepted life to which the Other is antithetical. I can go on and on about the intricacies of this, and Lacan himself certainly did, but I’m working on a review of different conceptualisations of the Other so I will stop here. What I want to establish while bringing this up is that Nesta is essentially the Other to the IC’s symbolic order, i.e. fundamentally incompatible and an epistemological threat. This is a very theoretical way to explain the IC’s hostility and dislike towards her, but I find it compelling enough to pursue (and I am a nerd).
We can’t forget that Cassian is a known element of the IC’s symbolic order, thus one of the Selves let’s say. The Self should seek to annihilate the Other (as it usually does)…not love it, desire it, care for it. To do so is to enter a profound state of existential precarity. To pursue his feelings for Nesta, Cassian would have to question the fundamental assumptions that are at the core of his known world. There is nothing simple about such a task and I can’t really blame him for struggling. 
Still, understanding something isn’t necessarily synonymous with liking it. I wish that the distance between these two characters were not so great. I wish both could just sit and talk with the respect I know them to have for one another. The constant insults and underhanded jabs made by both parties are messy and not in a fun way. As the ship stands, I don’t feel comfortable liking it with the same reckless abandon as before. I think their hostility is too raw, even if their actions contradict them most of the time. Is it unreasonable to want them to interact without reservations in situations other than those between life and death? I hope ACOSF can provide the development they both deserve. Maybe then I can stop having one leg in the ship and the other overboard.
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lechevaliermalfet · 5 years
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In the Name of the Moon – A Look at Lunar Legend Tsukihime
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There’s a popular joke in the Type-Moon fandom that there is no Tsukihime anime, but boy it sure would be great if there was one.
I had only ever been dimly aware of this attitude toward the Tsukihime anime myself.  Watching it fansubbed for the first time in the early 00s, I wasn’t really plugged into the fandom, and the joke seemed like a minor thing to me.  I had all but forgotten it by the time I was with my wife at Otakon in 2012, and we went to a panel about Type-Moon for fandom newcomers.  
The panel was pretty salty about the Tsukihime anime, taking the joke about there being no such thing so far as to refuse to acknowledge it or discuss it.  If I recall, they insisted on this refusal even when directly asked about it by someone in the audience.  I also don’t recall them being all that complimentary about the Fate/Stay Night anime (the original 2006 series) for that matter.  We had a long drive home after the convention – fourteen hours, give or take – and our discussion about the convention kept circling back to that panel.
She’d gone mostly to accompany me, I think, and because she didn’t have anything she wanted to do that conflicted with it.  She had some minor interest herself, as she’d seen this supposedly nonexistent Tsukihime anime, and like me, she enjoyed it.  So it was pretty irritating for her to go to this panel ostensibly for newcomers and then have them trash the one thing she’d experienced in the fandom.  It was all the more irritating when you stopped to consider that at that point that it was, in all probability, one of the handful of things real newcomers might have experience with.
In its way, though, the panelists’ hostile and disdainful attitude toward the most accessible works in the general Type-Moon oeuvre did make for a suitable introduction.  If not to Type-Moon and their work, then to the fandom, and the high levels of toxicity most of its assholes could and would display given the opportunity.
But I’m not here to talk about the Type-Moon fandom, except as it amuses me, or is relevant to the subject at hand.
The subject being this supposedly non-existent anime: Lunar Legend Tsukihime.
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My own relation to the Western Type-Moon fan community is tangential at best.  A couple of guys I know (one a good friend, the other an acquaintance), back in the early to mid-aughts, were moderators for the Beast’s Lair forum, basically the center of the English-language fandom community at the time.  Of course, at the time, the fandom was almost brand-new.  Tsukihime was all the rage then, because Tsukihime was almost all there was. Fate/Stay Night was new enough that there hadn’t really been time for the discourse around it to even form, let alone evolve much.  And in those days, Beast’s Lair was basically the forum owner and a few of his online friends, and I feel like half the reason it existed was because at that point, it was more convenient to just have a forum than it was to get a bunch of guys together on an AIM group chat with that level of frequency.  This was before Mirror Moon created a translation patch for any of these games.  These were guys who bought the game direct from Japan, paid the outrageous import fees, referred constantly to a GameFAQs walkthrough, and died like men.  It was that, or learn Japanese.  Most of them opted for the walkthrough. Thank Whoever you believe in that the game runs windowed, I guess.
Fate, which has been the bread and butter of Type-Moon’s success for well over a decade now, was a commercial game.  But it was one built with on the base of the huge support Tsukihime had garnered following its launch.  Tsukihime itself was a doujin game, made when the guys at Type-Moon were a bunch of nobodies and had no real money to speak of.
Because they were nobodies, and because they needed the game to sell big if they were going to make the kind of money they needed to make, they did what a lot of Japanese doujin developers have done and continue to do, and will probably do until the end of time, and put porn in the game.
This is not unknown in Western development circles either, just for the record. But Japanese culture is in some ways more permissive when it comes to depictions of sex or sex-adjacent topics and material in their mainstream entertainment.  Porn can net you a decent career, or at least a halfway-decent living, and it’s generally easier over there for porn artists in any field of endeavor to “go legit” and make the jump to the non-porn version of their field.
That doesn’t happen in the West, or at any rate not in America.  Or very rarely. We have (for better or worse; there’s a whole separate debate there) a much sharper division between the porn and non-porn sides of the entertainment industry, and that barrier’s much less porous. But porn fans will support you.  If the success ceiling is far lower than in the legitimate side of the industry, it’s also true that the floor is likewise lower.
So here we have Tsukihime.  Not “porn with plot”, or even “plot with porn”, but “plot (…with porn)”.  It’s there because they were worried the game wouldn’t sell without it, and so there’s not much of it in the first place.  What I’m saying is that if you’re wanting to get your rocks off, you’re going to be a while.
Which is not to say that Tsukihime as a game is inherently like… progressive, or woke, or anything like that.  Oh no. Nonononono.  It’s horror (-ish, depending on your route), for starters – a genre that thrives on objectification and exploitation.  And then it’s Japanese, which gives it an extra few layers of seeming weird to American sensibilities.  So this is less like going down the rabbit hole and potentially more like falling into a snake pit.
I say all this to lend some context.  When we think of Type-Moon today, we tend to think of this highly successful production house with a star franchise that’s rapidly hitting the market saturation point.  If it hasn’t already (and I have a friend who maintains that it has). And that is absolutely not Tsukihime.  Not the game, and certainly not the anime.  No ufotable animating, no Yuki Kajiura composing, no Gen Urobuchi directing the critically acclaimed and popularly loved (and irritatingly overpriced) prequel.
This is Tsukihime.  This isn’t the property that launched Type-Moon to stardom.  That would, again, be Fate.  This is the property that let them make Fate the way they did.  Tsukihime is the visual novel world’s equivalent of some garage band you never heard of releasing their demo tape as their debut album, and the demo tape is actually pretty good, even as it suffers from having basically rock-bottom production values.  It’s one of those things where the whole is more than the sum of its parts.  You have to look at what it tries to be and tries to do, and like it for that. In that much at least, even as they differ in many other ways, that much is true of both the anime and the visual novel.
It’s worth it, though.
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Phantasmal Fantasy
If we’re being honest (and why wouldn’t we be honest?), Tsukihime, at least going through the main route, is a little bit less straight horror and a little more what I think of as horror-fantasy.  It isn’t horror because it’s rarely if ever actually frightening.  But it uses horror aesthetics in a fantasy setting (urban fantasy, in this case), which may lend things a generally eerie and unsettling sense of ambiance and a particular feeling of threat to the main characters without ever quite getting your pulse up.  It’s a hybrid genre I happen to have a huge soft spot for (I’ve been reliably informed that this is sort of My Thing).  The entire Legacy of Kain series falls under that banner for me, as do most of the Castlevania games.  The Dark Souls games all have it to some extent, and Bloodborne leans into it hard enough that it actually is kind of legitimately scary at various points.  And then there are movies like Vampire Hunter D.
Lunar Legend Tsukihime, the anime based on the visual novel Tsukihime, was released in the early to mid 2000s.  On a technical level, it’s very middle-of-the-road, with a bit of a generic visual style and workmanlike animation.  But we’re talking about an anime based on a doujin hentai game.  More mainstream visual novels’ adaptations tend to get better treatment.  Tsukihime is well-regarded, but probably not really “popular” in the same sense as something like, say, Da Capo or Little Busters or Air, or...  Look, Type-Moon’s getting the star treatment was pretty much going to be impossible at that stage.  It took Tsukihime and the first Fate adaptation before we got to that point.  That the Tsukihime anime happened at all is honestly kind of remarkable, and a testament to how much of an impact the game made.
Tsukihime takes place in the modern day (well, modern for the date of its release, which for the game was 2000, and for the anime would be 2003 or so).  It’s a vampire story, of sorts, though the only creatures we’d recognize as traditional vampires are a minor threat at best.
Our main character, or at any rate, our viewpoint character, is Shiki Tohno.  He’s part of a large, wealthy, and presumably powerful family, though he lives with an aunt and uncle whose ways and means are much more middle-class than his father, the head of the family.  He was banished from the main estate eight years ago, shipped off to live with his aunt and uncle after an accident when he was about eight.
He doesn’t remember much about the accident.  He (and therefore we) are initially told it was a car accident, and that it damaged his heart. He has fainting spells occasionally if he over-exerts himself, and otherwise generally anemic symptoms.  Something to do with damage to his heart after the accident; it’s not really clear.  The weakness makes him an unfit heir to be head of the family, hence his being put aside.
The real change in him is far stranger, and far harder to understand.
While recovering in the hospital, he begins to see odd lines running through everything, making the world look fractured.  He discovers that if he cuts along those lines with a blade or other edged implement, the object will simply fall apart along those lines.  It takes little to no force to do this.  He could cut down a tree simply by dragging the edge of a knife along a particular line on its trunk, a line invisible to anyone but him.  His attempts to convince others that these lines exist fall on deaf ears, and only cause concern for his mental state.
One day during his recovery, while wandering around outside, he runs across a woman named Aoko Aozaki who not only believes him, but understands what’s happening.  She explains to him that he has a rare ability – perhaps the only one in the world with it – known as the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception.  What he is seeing is the inevitable destruction and dissolution, the “death”, of every person and object around him.  The lines are the only way his brain can make sense of it, as this is something the human mind doesn’t readily grasp.  She gives him a pair of glasses which make the lines go away while he wears them, and which therefore allow him to go on with his life as normal.  She tells him that he mustn’t use this power of his unless absolutely necessary.
Shiki lives his life normally from that point forward, until one day while he’s in high school, he receives notice that his father has passed away, and Shiki is to move back into the main estate.  Said estate is in the same town, so much of his day-to-day should remain the same – same friends, same school, same daily routine.
But a strange thing happens on his way to the manor after school.  While resting in the park, he sees a young woman with shoulder-length blonde hair and a white sweater.  From out of nowhere, he is overcome with a furious, murderous impulse.  His body seems to move on its own, with no input or control from him.  Off come the glasses, out comes the knife he carries with him, and he’s off chasing her.  Bad things happen.
He wakes up in the Tohno mansion, having blacked out and been retrieved by Hisui, one of the two maids of the home.  She dresses as a Western maid, while her twin sister, Kohaku, also a maid, prefers a kimono.  
But his arrival at the manor comes with significant culture shock.  In the wake of his father’s passing, possession of the manor and the position of head of family have both fallen to his younger sister, Akiha, whom he hasn’t seen since his accident some eight years ago.  His memory of her is a little hazy, but he seems taken aback by the polite but stern young lady she’s grown into.  Altogether, the four of them – Akiha, Shiki, Kohaku, and Hisui – are the only inhabitants of the house.  
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Shiki finds its size and sense of isolation intimidating, all the more because his daily life in and around the house is in for a massive shake-up.  For starters, there’s a strict curfew, and also no television.  When Shiki objects, Akiha puts her foot down, and seems determined that he will live according to the family’s ways and rules, or…  Well, there is no “or else”.  He just will, end of story.
So he sneaks out to go buy some snacks and magazines.  On his way, he is accosted by one of his classmates, Ciel.  But here, she’s dressed in an odd outfit, carrying a set of deadly-sharp swords, and seems intent on killing him until she satisfies herself that he poses no threat.
The next day, further weirdness ensues.  He encounters the blonde lady, the one he thought he killed, very much alive and well.  His initial relief that he didn’t actually kill her is quickly undone by her assertion that actually, he did, and with rare skill and gusto.  She then goes on to describe the exact cuts he used to slice her into seventeen separate pieces.  
Then it gets stranger.
She is, she tells him, a vampire, albeit not all that much like what you’d think of when the word comes to mind.  And no, she doesn’t sparkle.  Her name is Arcueid Brunestud, and she’s hunting an enemy of hers who’s in the area, and is responsible for a string of murders and mysterious deaths that have been occurring lately.  She was doing well enough until Shiki came along murdered her.  While she was able to recover from this inconvenience, their encounter has left her in a weakened state.  Now she needs help, and who better than the one who put her in this position in the first place?
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Twists, Turns, and Dead Ends
I’m a little conflicted about the problem with the Tsukihime anime.  I can’t decide whether its creators overestimated what they could do in twelve episodes, or underestimated the material and the time it needed.  I supposed it really doesn’t make much difference.  Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Bad news first.
There are some technical issues with the show, which are probably the least of its problems.  The art style is kind of lackluster and workmanlike, and the animation is overall pretty by-the-numbers.  There are numerous moments where you can see drawing or animation shortcuts were taken, and there are lots of long shots where the camera lingers on one place or on one person well beyond what’s necessary for drama.  On the other hand, the more important action scenes do see a slight jump in quality, so maybe the producers were keeping something up their sleeve for when it counted.  
The English voice work is serviceable.  The actors’ voices are by and large a good fit for the roles, but the acting is occasionally a little wooden. The writing is somewhat off as well.  Shiki disappears from his normal life for a while in the third and fourth episodes, and his friends’ and family’s discussions of it once he resurfaces don’t seem to agree on the times he was gone – at one point, even within the same conversation.  This may be a translation or dub writing error, though.  There are other weird gaffes (this time in the original script), such as that Shiki doesn’t notice that Kohaku and Hisui are identical twins. This despite the fact that their only notable differences are eye color and wardrobe.
But these are mostly technical troubles, and they’re things I can overlook pretty easily.  The writing errors are never so serious that I get confused about what’s going on, and the artwork issues aren’t too out of line, either.  Certainly I’ve seen other shows from the time that did worse and more often.
The real issues \with Tsukihime, and the problem most of the original game’s fans have, stem from the way it’s adapted from the game.
Like a lot of visual novels, Tsukihime has multiple routes, and many if not all of them are mutually exclusive.  In fact, some don’t even involve Arcueid, who you’ll remember is one of the main characters. This presents some difficulties when making a TV series.  On the one hand, there is a canon route, and you could probably make a decent twelve-episode TV series out of just that.  On the other hand, there are lots of fans who prefer the alternate routes, who would be pissed if their favorite characters showcased in those routes weren’t given some screen time, and so you want to give them something.  And, too, one of the intriguing things about a game like Tsukihime is all the lore and world-building that makes these divergent plotlines possible and interesting.  Even when not pursued, elements of those routes may come up one way or another, and lend a certain richness and depth to the story.  It would be a shame to leave that on the cutting room floor.
Another possibility the show’s creators could take is to craft their own continuity, essentially creating a story hybridized from multiple routes from the game while not adhering strictly to any one of them, and create a single story that way.  This hypothetical hybrid story would then be better able to explore more of the background and lore, and incorporate that richness into its own new canon.  But that would take probably more than twelve episodes, and twelve was all Tsukihime got.  For anyone who’s curious about what this approach might look like, there’s a manga adaptation that incorporates elements of the other routes into the main story.  It’s out of print now, sadly.  Originally published by ComicsOne, it was taken over by DrMaster after ComicsOne went out of business.  Then DrMaster themselves went out...
Anyway, the compromise measure that the show’s creators eventually decided on was to largely tell one story (the Near Side routes, particularly the Arcueid route), while throwing in bits and pieces from other routes… and then never following up on them.  There wind up being a few non sequiturs and narrative dead ends or red herrings, almost as a kind of wink and nod to say that the show’s makers at least know those possibilities exist.  But this results in the show being unfocused.  For instance, a couple of episodes build up the Problem With the Tohno Bloodline, but this ultimately doesn’t figure into the story.  This material comes from what the game refers to as the Far Side routes, and those developments largely go unnoticed during the Near Side routes which the anime’s plot focuses on.  The problem is, again, that these are mutually exclusive as the presented in the original game.  Weaving them together in the “new continuity” approach would be fine – maybe ideal for the anime, even – but it would take an amount of alteration to the continuity that the anime never makes.  It winds up being less of a problem than it sounds like, but it does manage to be frustrating.
The main story, meanwhile, hints at interesting elements from the broader cosmological background that the game establishes (and which later Type-Moon games borrow and build upon), but many of those elements never quite leave the background.  This leaves a frustrating sense of massive, powerful forces and entities moving in the background, that there is something far larger happening that we are not even quite glimpsing, but only being given hints of.  
But if it sometimes seems that Tsukihime only scratches the surface of the greater and deeper lore of its setting, that lore and setting are still compelling.  There’s an almost Lovecraftian sense of cosmic scale to the supernatural as it’s presented in Tsukihime.  Arcueid, Nvrnqsr Chaos (no, that’s not a typo; it’s the real name of an adversary in the game, though the anime presents it as Nero Chaos instead), and her ultimate enemy, Roa – all of them are connected to higher forces and entities.  The murders occurring in Shiki’s city are the most minor of problems in the grand scheme of things.  This is what makes the anime both fascinating and frustrating.  It shows us this conflict, but refuses to give the full context for it.  So much seems to be held back; the full natures of these characters goes unexplored.
I like a little mystery.  I like it when some things are unexplained, or when the answers are there to be found rather than to be given.  It’s one of the things I love about Dark Souls and Bloodborne.  But the story of Tsukihime fails to explore these mysteries in a way I find really satisfying.
I feel like this is the root of why a certain overly vocal segment of the fandom chooses not to acknowledge the anime.  Coming to it from the game, I can see where it might seem a little disappointing.  Many of these hooks can seem like teases to those who understand their significance enough to be upset that they ultimately don’t deliver.
But that’s not the experience that either I or my wife had watching the anime.  We both came to it before we ever knew anything of the game.  For us, those odd hooks were just moments where we went, “Huh.  Weird,” and carried on watching the show.  Sure, there was clear and unaddressed significance, but it wasn’t a problem.  If anything, it made me more curious about the game.
The show may seem meandering to some, but to me, I just tend to think of its pace as sedate.  It doesn’t really dig into the characters’ backstories, but it does help to develop them and give them room to breathe.  
In particular, the anime spends a lot of time developing Arcueid.  We see that despite her power, and her potential for wrath and violence, she’s surprisingly cute and innocent-seeming at times, and actually innocent when it comes to some things.  You can see her interest in Shiki grow, but she seems unable to express it.  Her attempts at being normal can come across as almost mocking, when they are instead sincere and well-meant, but hopelessly clueless.
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What we learn of her story is somewhat sparse, but we know that she spends most of her time asleep, awakening only to deal with threats like Roa.  The reasons for this are complicated, at least enough so as to be beyond the scope of this writing.  Suffice it to say that there’s a wiki if you’re after more information.  Just be warned: The writing there is pretty iffy.  Anyway, Arcueid is capable of getting by just fine on her own (when some inconsiderate dick doesn’t just up and murder her, anyway), but it’s also clear that, thanks to spending most of her time asleep, she doesn’t really understand a lot of what’s going on around her.  There’s a kind of obliviousness to her that might be frustrating in another character in a different show, but is somehow just endearing here.  Like my wife said at one point: You just want to hug her.  Which is not, you know, the normal reaction you have with vampires.  “Aloof”, “compelling”, “seductive”…  These are the words we tend to think of when it comes to vampiric “affection” in fiction.  “Huggable” doesn’t really show up on the list.  And yet, here we are.
There’s a certain cat-like quality to her.  Elegant, graceful, mysterious, sometimes selfish, frequently endearing, and occasionally ridiculous.  There’s comedy in her situation.  Shiki, despite his powers, is otherwise kind of a dork who could not be more clearly in over his head, at least at the start.  He spends most of the series bewildered, confused, scared, and very occasionally snapping and completely losing his shit against some eldritch horror.  And yet he’s the one who has to keep Arcueid grounded (to the extent that this is really even possible) and basically explain to her how the world works.  In some ways, it’s really Arcueid’s story.
The pace of the series helps it build a sense of brooding mystery as it explores the twin dilemmas of finding a way to stop Roa and figuring out Shiki’s uncertain place in and relation to the rest of the Tohno family.  And as you might suspect, these two problems aren’t as separate as they first seem.
If nothing else, the opening theme is just about perfect.  Subdued, mysterious, haunting; it sets the mood of the show almost perfectly, in a way that comes close to over-promising on what the anime actually delivers.  It definitely sets a mood.
That mood is one I tend to get into around this time of year.  I’m normally a night person in the first place.  No amount of working mostly first-shift jobs over the last two decades has changed the fact that there’s some part of me that wakes up when the sun goes down, and wants to stay up until the sunrise.  I like to be out and about in the dark.  I can remember back when I was in college, I would be out with friends trying to find any reason at all to stay out as late as possible.  Later in life, I’d duck out long after everyone else was asleep and go for roaming walks at night (at least, back when I lived in a reasonable neighborhood).  With fall here, the urge just gets stronger.  
There’s something of that feeling I get from Tsukihime, large portions of which involve that same nocturnal roaming, and take place in the nighttime times of life.  And I enjoy stories about monsters and the supernatural – I went through something of a vampire fascination phase when I was younger, and still maintain a certain amount of interest – and so those things alone might have gotten my attention.
Fuck the haters; the Tsukihime anime exists, and it’s good.  Not great, and not as good as it might have been, but it’s fine.  If it’s not exactly gripping, edge-of-your-seat suspense, it’s still an entertaining way to spend the better part of five or six hours.  Certainly worth a watch if you can track it down.  
Tsukihime tells an odd, interesting story – moody, dark, weird, mysterious, fantastical – all things I like.  A story of supernatural threats, monsters, mystery, and marauders in the night.  It’s hard to think of anything more appropriate for fall – for October – for Halloween.
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Availability
The DVD release for Lunar Legend Tsukihime was originally handled by Geneon in both Japan and the U.S., since they were part of the original production committee.  After they folded, it was picked up by Sentai Filmworks, one of the several splinter companies that rose from the ashes of ADV’s implosion in the late aughts.  
Geneon’s release was evidently a multi-volume affair.  Which seems ludicrous today, when you typically buy an entire season of twelve episodes or so all at once these days, in a single set.  But Geneon (which had previously been Pioneer) had been around since the VHS days, and a lot of those companies in some sense inherited the mindset that had governed the VHS release schedule, which was to release a volume every couple of months or so, with three or four episodes on each one, and that was that.
Sentai Filmworks’ version is a two-disc, single-volume set, so that would probably be the way to go.  Especially if shelf space is a concern.  
There is no Blu-ray release, and honestly, it’s hard to imagine what Blu-ray would really do for the show.  At any rate, it seems to be out of print currently.  Geneon, of course, folded about a decade or so ago. And although Sentai Filmworks lists it in their catalog, there’s no option to buy.  And it doesn’t appear to be available for legal streaming anywhere.  Like a lot of older (and I hate to think of this as “older” – I remember being an adult when it was new) – maybe I should say somewhat older anime – Amazon and eBay are your best bet if you’re interested.  
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Postscript the First – The Anime versus the Game
Tsukihime, as a visual novel with multiple routes, contains far more material than the TV series.  HOWEVER, please consider this paragraph your giant, flashing, neon-lit trigger warning for content potentially involving sex, assault, sexual assault (of various kinds), incest, violation of consent, and more violence than the anime producers could show even with the series airing at otaku o’clock.
Just to be up-front for a moment, I haven’t played much of the game.  Much of my information comes secondhand, or else is the result of reading the Type-Moon wiki and talking with friends who’ve played through it. I’ve yet to finish a single route.  I’d like to, and I occasionally chip away at it here and there, but the problems are twofold.
The first problem – probably the main problem – is the low level of engagement.  I get curious about visual novels from time to time, but they’re always a little too easy to put down, and a little too hard to pick up.  And that may seem strange, since there’s so little to do in one.  The amount of effort involved is nil.  But that’s just the thing.  I often wrestle with whether or not I even consider them to be games at all.  And, look: It’s not like I think visual novels are unworthy of anyone’s time.  They’re fine.  Largely not my cup of tea, but fine.  But what you do in a visual novel could hardly be called playing, any more than you “play” a Choose Your Own Adventure book.  There are no mechanics, no maneuvering through the world, no use of skills.  Just decisions to make, and those not very often.  The thing about an actual game is that I’m mentally engaged, fully occupied and firing on all (or most) cylinders.  When I want to play a game, that’s what I’m after.  And visual novels just don’t offer that.
Of course, I do love to read, and so it would seem like they should be right up my alley for that reason at least.  But no.  The writing is actually my second problem.
So far as I’ve observed, which admittedly isn’t much, most Japanese visual novels translated into English are pretty awkward, and this is probably a combination of factors.  One is that what constitutes good writing (in terms of how the language is deployed) in Japanese differs considerably from what constitutes good writing in English.  It’s not just visual novels, mind you.  The couple Haruki Murakami books I’ve read have both also seemed off to some degree as well.  I think it’s just something in the translation, some difference between English and Japanese in the matters of word choice, rhythm, and flow, and the sense for how these things work in each.  I sincerely think that making a Japanese work really sing in English would involve a level of change that most translators (and visual novel fans in particular, given their greater likelihood of being total Japanophiles) are deeply uncomfortable with.
But beyond the general problem of Japanese-to-English writing, there’s the problem of Kinoko Nasu in particular, who is Type-Moon’s writer.
Nasu is, I think, something of a Lovecraft disciple, with his cosmic-scale sense for horror.  But he’s also like Lovecraft in another very important and distinct way, which is that despite having really interesting ideas that set my imagination on fire, he actually can not fucking write.
I’m sorry, Lovecraft fans, I really am, but it’s true.  Deep down, you all know it.  Lovecraft, for his part, was a man who at some point earlier in his life swallowed a thesaurus, and was then hell-bent on vomiting it out over every page he wrote ever afterward.  He never used one word if he could find a way to use five or six to say the same thing, never used a simple, elegant, and concise word when he knew a more complex one, and his style has so little flow you’d need an electron microscope to find it.  You could make a workout of running back and forth to the dictionary while reading his work.  Or you could make it a drinking game.  And then die, of alcohol poisoning.
He had some great ideas, once you got past the writing, and the multiple onion-like layers of intense racism.  And he was intensely racist; let’s not forget that.  Not just “racist because it’s the 1920s or ‘30s and basically everyone white is racist right now,” I mean racist even for those times.  People back then were a little weirded out by how much he hated the Jews, and black people, and anyone else who wasn’t the right shade of paper-white.  But even just focusing on his writing, the feeling remains that he was not the best vehicle for his stories, and that’s just how it is.  The most aching, taxing, fucking grueling reading I have ever done on stories I still actually liked is mostly found between the covers of the various Lovecraft compendia I have lying around the house.  I like his stories; I just don’t like reading them much.
Nasu may well be his reincarnation (and oh, would it ever have horrified Lovecraft to be reincarnated as a Japanese person).  A common complaint I’ve heard about Nasu’s writing (from people who’ve read it in Japanese) is that he has good ideas, but just isn’t a skilled writer.  Now, I’m not qualified to really dissect how he comes across in his own culture, but when translated into English, he’s a painful read.  Maybe it’s the fault of the group responsible for the translation (Mirror Moon), but at the very least, I can confidently state that he should stay out of porn.  His sex scenes have some of the least sexy and most unintentionally hilarious writing I’ve seen in my life.  It’s why I think that even Fate didn’t really take off to become the absolute phenomenon it is until after we started to get anime adaptations of it.  Those adaptations would all have been written by other people, or at least had some amount of editing or collaboration to dilute the worst of his influence, letting the good ideas shine through without Nasu’s own writing griming everything up.
I don’t have a lot of basis for comparison, but I feel like on a technical level, Tsukihime is pretty basic.  The character artwork is nice enough, with a distinct style.  The backgrounds, though, are in most cases very clearly photographs that have been filtered or otherwise manipulated so as not to clash too badly with the character art.  This was probably a shortcut to save time or money, or both.  
On the balance, I’d say it’s worth looking into, with the major caveat that there’s a lot of stuff in it that didn’t (and couldn’t) make it into the anime, that makes the story overall much darker and more sinister than the anime could manage.  Unfortunately, it’s going to be hard to find.  There’s only the original version released in 2000.  There’s talk of a sequel and a remake, but the amount of time that’s passed for no more attention or work than the project has received, to the extent that these things have become running gags in the fandom.  They probably are things that the higher-ups at Type-Moon really do mean to create at some point, but which aren’t a huge priority for them, and so are very, very back-burner projects.
As I mentioned above, the anime and the game are both similar in that their quality persists despite somewhat lacking production values.  But the anime’s middle-of-the-road budget and somewhat generic style was never the problem.  The game, meanwhile, was pretty clearly made on a close-to-shoestring budget, but this actually doesn’t matter nearly as much.  Visuals novels live and die on their writing, ideas, and artwork, I think.  Rarely if ever do they rely on really cutting-edge graphics for their impact.  And in truth, Tsukihime the game was always going to be marred far more by Nasu’s writing than anything technical.  
A nice upside is that, since we’re privy to Shiki’s internal monologue, he comes across as a more interesting character.  He seems to sometimes just float through the story in the anime, with bouts of intensity here and there when things go wrong or he’s totally lost it.  But the game gives us his thoughts, and we get a better handle on why he does the things he does.
For English-speaking fans, there are walkthroughs, of course.  But if that understandably sounds like too much of a pain in the ass, there’s also a fan translation (unauthorized) by Mirror Moon.  In addition to rendering the game into English, I believe it also introduces an option for removing the sex scenes.  So for those who are uncomfortable with those, this will answer that concern, at least.  
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Postscript the Second – Alternate Takes: Kara no Kyoukai
Frequently referred to in English-speaking circles by its subtitle, The Garden of Sinners, Kara no Kyoukai (which Wikipedia tells us means something like “Boundary of Emptiness”) is an interesting story from Kinoko Nasu’s early days.  It began publication (independently) in August of 1998, and is set in that timeframe.  Originally a series of novels, it’s primarily known in the U.S. as a boxed set of seven movies (plus a stand-alone eighth) priced exorbitantly by Aniplex USA (the Blu-ray boxed set for the first seven will set you back a cool $400).  These movies tell the story of a different Shiki, this time a young woman who wears a kimono, boots, and red leather jacket, named Shiki Ryogi.  
There are pretty clear linkages between it and Tsukihime, though these are thematic rather than narrative, and the result of ideas being reused.  Nasu began writing Kara no Kyoukai first, and seems to have cannibalized some of its concepts for Tsukihime. The two stories take place in alternate universes.  As with Tsukihime, this version of Shiki also has the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, although Kara no Kyoukai’s Shiki does actually come by them after an automobile accident.  There’s also a redheaded sorceress with the last name Aozaki (Touko instead of Aoko), and I want to say that I’ve read somewhere that they’re sisters, and that Touko traveled to this alternate reality from the “main” one where Tsukihime and Fate take place. She was initially envisioned with sort of pixie-cut blue hair, but was converted for the movies into a redhead like her sister Aoko, and Nasu decided he liked the change so much that it became canon.
But although it features a Shiki with the Mystic Eyes, she shares the spotlight with Mikiya Kokuto, who’s a dead ringer for the Shiki of Tsukihime. His personality’s different – he lacks Shiki Tohno’s deeply buried killer instinct, for a start.  Mikiya has no special abilities beyond a knack for information-gathering and a better-than-average capacity for deductive reasoning.  Moreover, even without any special powers of his own, he seems to move with relative comfort in a world full of sorcerers and mystical murderers, in part by keeping an open mind, taking nothing for granted, keeping his assumptions in check, and taking everything as it comes.  He works as an investigator for Touko’s paranormal detective agency, Garan-no-Dou. Shiki is mostly the muscle.
Mikiya has a younger sister, Azaka, who in her turn looks an awful lot like Shiki Tohno’s sister Akiha.  Except for in flashbacks, where she looks like a young Rin Tohsaka from Fate instead.  As with Tsukihime, she is attracted to her brother.  Unlike Tsukihime, the two of them are actually blood siblings, so... At least with Kara no Kyoukai, this profound failure of the Westermarck Effect is entirely one-sided; Mikiya has eyes only for Shiki.  TV Tropes would undoubtedly describe it as Single-Target Sexuality.  
There are any number of other parallels between the two, but these are the most obvious.  Much of the background lore seems to be similar between the two series, although Kara no Kyoukai doesn’t use the same parts of it, and doesn’t dig into the parts it does use quite as much.  It’s much less concerned with cosmic entities like Arcueid or Roa or Nvrnqsr Chaos, and more concerned with its characters as individuals, and how they relate to each other.  That isn’t to say that it doesn’t dive into the sort of metaphysical strangeness on display in Tsukihime and Fate – Kara no Kyoukai is aggressively weird – but its metaphysical struggles are more self-contained, connected more directly to the characters and less tied to the cosmological backdrop.
The movies were released in Japan beginning in 2007, almost a decade after the novels began publication, and well after the successes of Tsukihime and the first Fate series. They’re animated by ufotable, and feature Yuki Kajiura as the composer.  I’d encourage anyone interested to track them down, though I know the price tag can be offputting.  Aside from high-quality video and sound, the set is pretty bare-bones.  There’s no English audio track; in fact, the impression I get is that this is basically just the Japanese Blu-ray release, re-encoded for Region 1. This includes the movies’ proper titles not being displayed in English anywhere on the discs or cases, so you have to do a little sleuthing to figure out which movies are which.  This is doubly aggravating considering that the intended viewing order isn’t chronological, so it’s not immediately apparent if you’ve started with the wrong movie.  If you feel totally lost and like you’ve just come into the middle of things, then it’s highly likely you’re exactly where you’re supposed to be.  Thankfully, the menus are in English, and the subtitles are serviceable.
There’s a DVD version of the boxed set that costs less – I want to say the whole boxed set went for something like $200 – which is still a decent chunk of change, but more reasonable for a set of seven movies. Unfortunately, a quick browse of Amazon makes it seem even harder to find than the Blu-ray set.  And, sadly, there are no legal streaming options for this series.
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notafeeling · 7 years
Text
We Need To Talk About Roman
(please read the post before you jump to conclusions. warnings for mentions of abuse - a warning is put before and after the mentions.)
Actually, we need to talk about the passive-aggressive posts that have the intent of “calling-out” those who dislike Roman. I understand where you’re coming from – he’s your favourite character and people are attacking him, which makes you angry/upset/uncomfortable, so in return, you make your own post about how people should forgive him/stop being so hostile. You want to protect Roman – or whichever character is receiving such treatment from the fandom. And I get that.
However.
There is a difference from merely pointing out that people attacking a certain character makes you uncomfortable… and demanding that they forgive and like this character.
First of all, please take note of how I specifically use the word ‘character’.  Google’s second definition of the word, and the one most relevant to this post, explains the word as ‘a person in a novel, play or film.’ Not real life.
Of course, there’s the argument that since
A)     Thomas plays this character and
B)      Roman represents a part of Thomas
…one shouldn’t dislike Roman, but when it really boils down to it, Roman is a fictional character at the end of the day.
Good old Wikipedia defines ‘fictional character’ as ‘a person in a narrative work of art (such as a novel, play, television series, or movie). The character can be completely fictional or based on a real-life person. (…) Character, mainly when played by an actor in the theatre or cinema, involves “the illusion of being a human person.” In literature, characters guide readers through their stories, helping them to understand plots and ponder themes.’
If we take a look at his development in the Sanders Sides series, he is indeed a fictional character. He will not be affected by the fandom’s opinion of him. He does not actively interact with the fandom. He is not a role player who responds accordingly to how the audience perceives him – he is a fictional character in a web series. People are allowed to dislike or even hate fictional characters, much like they are allowed to love them. They are entitled to their opinion of a character, as long as it doesn’t hurt real-life people.
You may say Thomas might be hurt by this, as Roman is an exaggeration of certain traits he has. However, Thomas is an actor. He understands that and often, he purposefully depicts a side as the villain (see: Taking on ANXIETY with Lilly Singh!!). When creators make narratives like this one, there is supposed to be someone you dislike. There is supposed to be flaws in characters. So disliking a character means that they’ve done their job as a creator.
Adding onto this, Roman has his very own character development arc. This arc is the cause of a lot of dislike towards him. (Be warned, as this bit has mentions of abuse. Bold Italics will be put when it’s over.)
Next you might argue that he’s a better person now, or that he didn’t know better, and therefore he should be forgiven, especially since he’s trying his best.
One particularly thing about Prinxiety that has lowkey bugged me (and don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind the ship) was the constant insults Roman threw Virgil’s way. As someone whose own parents belittle me and refuse to acknowledge any good attributes I might possess, this upset me. The way Roman treated Virgil wasn’t right. And then, when I made my opinion known, for people to tell me that Roman “didn’t mean it” and “truly loved him”… You can see where I’m going with this.
Putting that aside, I’m not saying the ship or Roman is inherently abusive, but please be aware of this when you make posts shading people who don’t approve of the character or ship. Abuse is more common than you think, and I’m not blaming anyone who has made a post like that, but just be educated and aware.
(Abuse-talk over.)
No one has to forgive Roman, but if it’s your personal choice to do so, then I respect that. Please respect other people’s choices too.
There are plenty of other things I could add onto this, but I don’t want it to be too long. To any anon who has ever sent an ask about my view of Roman that I couldn’t be bothered to respond to, I hope you read this and rethink your way of talking to people.
TL;DR Respect people’s personal views of a character as long as they aren’t hurting real-life people (and no, Roman doesn’t count as real-life).
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