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tomakeitbeautifultolive · 4 years

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Hi, I first heard of N+A=D from your page. Ever since then I was wandering through internet to find more evidence on this theory. But the only thing I cannot digest is the lack of any concern in Ned's PoV. Honestly the only way it could've worked is with Ned not knowing about Ashara's child. Maybe Ashara was angry with him , or she wanted the best for him and spare hum the pain, either way she asked her family to keep the existence of the child's alive status a secret.Maybe that's (1)

(2) why Dany was sent away. Because Ashara wanted to keep her knowledge away from Ned. It's not you or me we are talking about here, it's Ned Stark the most honourable man in the entire solar system! In any way I can't possibly imagine any other scenario in which Ned doesn't even think about his former love and child that is alive. What do you think???

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Hello! Thanks so much for the question! I definitely lean "Ned has no idea" - and that it's actually Jon Arryn who has been working behind the scenes with Ashara on his (unwitting) behalf.

While there are a few fishy things about Ned (like his weird connection to the Searlord of Braavos) that raise some questions, based on what we get in his POV - it's safest to assume that if he thought he was the father of Ashara's child, that that child died in stillbirth and Ashara, in suicide. Which is exactly why, over a decade later, he's not actively thinking of either in his POVs (I like to use myself as an example - my first boyfriend died in a car accident a little over a decade ago. I almost never think of him. So to me, it's not weird that Ned isn't dwelling on the death of his first love because he has a wife and children and the whole North and now all of the Seven Kingdoms to concern himself with).

Even people who don't believe this theory tend to speculate whether or not Ashara faked her death. Many people assume she is Septa Mordane. To which I always wonder... but why? For a casual reader who believes Ashara faked her death, what is the motivation there?

Meanwhile, I have my theory: Ashara faked her death and the death of her child to protect not just the man she loved, but the 'prince that was promised', Jon. After all, the Daynes have a heavy hand in Jon's birth, as detailed with Arthur guarding the prince and Starfall lending their milkmaid. As a lady of the court under Elia Martell and in close proximity to Rhaella, with Jon Arryn's help, it would be quite easy to fabricate a different origin story for the baby girl who donned very prominent Dayne features - which so happen to look Targaryen.

And before I get any retort about what a terrible idea that was? Yes, I get that Daenerys and Viserys ended up "on the run" at some point - but that was never the plan. Many, many children across Westeros are fostered with other families (Ned and his brother Brandon included, might I add). Daenerys was always meant to live a nice, safe, relatively cushioned life until she made it back to Dorne to wed Quentyn Martell (the pact signed by Oberyn, himself - who, based on context clues, happens to be a friend to Ashara). While Robert would’ve loved the death of the Targaryen children, it was Jon Arryn who protected them for years and years, as confirmed by Renly. So long as Jon Arryn lived, Daenerys was safe.

I'm absolutely willing to bet that prior to Brandon's death, many things were supposed to unfold differently. Such as Ned marrying Ashara. But the Rebellion happened, and Ned was forced to marry his brother's intended upon his death.

While readers have the impression that Ned is 'the most honorable man in the solar system', remember that those across Westeros had seemingly no problem buying these rumors about Ned and Ashara (Harwin, Cersei, etc) as well as his having fathered a bastard (Jon). (I mean, Cersei even tried to seduce Ned at one point!). To me, Ned is one of the most misunderstood characters in the series! Here’s why:

Honor has two different meanings, really. For modern readers, we relate it to integrity and morality, but from what I can glean from Westerosi expectations, it's more about prestige and respect, honoring one's king or duty first, even above what's morally right (that's why you see so many characters, such as the Cleganes, rewarded with gold and prestige for heinous, immoral acts).

Consider Ned's honor again while reading this quote from Aemon to Jon:

Tell me, Jon, if the day should ever come when your lord father must needs choose between honor on the one hand and those he loves on the other, what would he do?

Jon hesitated. He wanted to say that Lord Eddard would never dishonor himself, not even for love, yet inside a small sly voice whispered, He fathered a bastard, where was the honor in that? And your mother, what of his duty to her, he will not even say her name. "He would do whatever was right," he said… ringingly, to make up for his hesitation. "No matter what."

Jon hesitates. He wants to believe his father's honor is unimpeachable. Yet what he says is that Eddard would do what was right - and that's true. Ned did not choose the honorable path when he chose to save Jon's life that day - he did what was right:

Then Lord Eddard is a man in ten thousand. Most of us are not so strong. What is honor compared to a woman's love?

This hint is twofold - that there isn’t anything special about Ned, he’s subject to the same emotions as any man, especially when it comes to a certain woman’s love... and that there is a clear difference between honor and love, that they do not go hand-in-hand as many readers/viewers assume.

What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms... or the memory of a brother's smile?

Duty would've been to Ned’s king - handing over his nephew upon his discovery. Duty would've been telling his wife the truth. Instead, the most important thing to Ned - even above his own life - was the love and memory of his sister. Which is why, even if he's completely oblivious to his bastard daughter's identity - he cannot stomach the death of another innocent child at the hands of his king. He knows what will happen to Jon if ever the secret comes out, because he had witnessed it with Aegon and Rhaenys. Likewise, the life of one innocent child - Daenerys - means more to him than does his honor, which is why he quits his position as Hand. Ned is not the pinnacle of honor nor has he ever been, but he strives to be the pinnacle of morality and justice, often at the cost of his honor and respect.

I'll leave you with this, as I might've just had a tiny little revelation. When first asked about whether or not the books would end differently from the show, GRRM decides to give us a strange comparison:

"Book or show, which will be the 'real' ending? It's a silly question. How many children did Scarlett O'Hara have?"

This subtle suggestion might actually insinuate something huge - that perhaps a certain character will have more children in the books than their show counterpart... 🤔 Such an insignificant detail in one series could result in shockwaves in another.

Combining that with GRRM's latest comments about the books having a different ending, it's certainly food for thought! And, assuming Daenerys is Ned's bastard daughter, this force of power that uses her moral compass to guide her all the way back home to save the world... what would the perfect ending be for such a character? Becoming queen or going mad? Somehow, I don’t think so.

Considering there has been much more foreshadowing for Daenerys pining for a simple life and for love rather than queenship or madness (🙄)... I still say her perfect ending is to do what her father, in this case, never could - choosing love over honor.

Thanks again for the question, it’s been my honor to indulge in my favorite theory once again! 🌠🐺

#answered #n+a=d #dayne heiress #asoiaf theories #tumblr really got rid of their line breaks did they?

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nobodysuspectsthebutterfly · 7 years

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I think I've read the passage of the House of the Undying an thousand times by now but I don't get what they are hinting at. Who are the mounts and the treacherous people and so on... Any thoughts?

Ohh boy. The thing to remember about the House of the Undying prophecies is that, well, they’re prophecies. Some of them haven’t happened yet, so we can only make guesses. It’s likely that after the books are complete, we’ll be able to go through all of Dany’s storyline and match up all the passages, but for now, we might be right or we might be wrong.

Anyway. These are my theories, based on the events of the books so far, TWOW preview chapters, other people’s thoughts, and other general speculation:

Dany first sees visions when she enters the House of the Undying, behind the doors of the hall. The beautiful woman being ravaged by little men is Westeros during the War of the Five Kings; the feast of corpses is the Red Wedding; the house with the red door in Braavos is what it is; the old man on the Iron Throne is Aerys commanding his pyromancers to light the wildfire when he hears Robert’s army has come to King’s Landing; and the last room shows Rhaegar with Elia and newborn Aegon, saying that Aegon is the Prince that was Promised but deciding he needs another child (in addition to Rhaenys) because “the dragon has three heads”.

Then Dany enters the chamber of the Undying, and they proclaim various prophetic statements:

…mother of dragons… child of three… […] three heads has the dragon…

Dany is the mother of dragons and one of the three heads of the dragon (part of the prophecy of the Prince that was Promised), that’s a given. What “child of three” means we’re not sure yet – it could be that she was one of Aerys and Rhaella’s three surviving children, it could mean that she’s one of the three heads of the dragon, it could be related to how these prophecies are given in sets of three, it could mean something else.

mother of dragons… child of storm…

Daenerys Stormborn, born during a great storm that hit Dragonstone and wrecked the Targaryen fleet.

three fires must you light… one for life and one for death and one to love…

One for life: Drogo’s pyre, which birthed her dragons

One for death: uncertain – may be the fire that burned down the House of the Undying, may be the “dracarys” that freed the slaves of Astapor, may be something related to her potential interactions with the Dothraki and the dosh khaleen in TWOW, might be related to the King’s Landing wildfire theory, or something else

One to love: what a fire to love means is extremely confusing. I personally think it will be a fire that will guide her to her love, but it could be something else.

three mounts must you ride… one to bed and one to dread and one to love…

One to bed: her silver mare, that carried her to her wedding night with Drogo

One to dread: Drogon, probably. (Since he’s Balerion the Black Dread reborn, or that he is dangerous even to his mother, or both.)

One to love: ??? unknown. May be a mount that will carry to her to her love, may be a mount to be loved (in which case “mount” for all three may be metaphorical), we just don’t know yet.

three treasons will you know… once for blood and once for gold and once for love…

Once for blood: Mirri Maz Duur, probably

Once for gold: might be Jorah’s betrayal, might be the Second Sons’ betrayal, might be something in the future (Daario perhaps)

Once for love: Very confusing right now. But I feel that a treason for love is different from a treason of love – that is, not a lover betraying her. Also, the fact that this is a treason she will know – it may be Dany herself is the executor of this treason for love. Some connect this to Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa, I say we can’t be sure, it’s something complex without the full context we need to understand it yet.

Then the Undying show Dany three sets of visions, each related to a certain theme. First theme:

Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth.

His golden crown.

A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

Rhaego conquering Westeros, a might-have-been. (Note Dany wasn’t by his side; perhaps if Rhaego had been born, she might have died instead?)

Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name…

Rhaegar, at the Trident.

mother of dragons, daughter of death…

This refers to the last three visions – Viserys, Rhaegar, and Rhaego had to die so that Dany could be the mother of dragons, could be queen in her own right.

Second theme:

Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.

Stannis.

A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

Aegon, the mummer’s dragon.

From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire…

Unknown, almost certainly hasn’t happened yet. May be something Melisandre creates, as she does want to birth dragons from stone, and she makes shadow illusions and actual shadow creatures. May be related to something Euron does at the Hightower. We’ll just have to see.

mother of dragons, slayer of lies…

Again, referring to the last three visions – Dany must slay the lies that Stannis is Azor Ahai (she is), that Aegon is the Targaryen ruler of Westeros (nope, that’s her, he’s a Blackfyre), and whatever the lie is regarding the shadow dragon. (If it’s Melisandre’s creation, it’s probably regarding the prophecy that Azor Ahai Reborn would wake dragons from stone, because again, that’s Dany.)

Third theme:

Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars.

Dany’s wedding night with Drogo.

A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly.

Uncertain. May be Hizdahr zo Loraq, dead and made the figurehead of Victarion’s ship (as Euron does to Aeron in his first TWOW chapter). May be a punning reference to a “grey joy”, either Euron or Victarion. (With Euron’s living figurehead thing being a metaphor for him by proxy.) We need TWOW before we can be sure, unfortunately.

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness…

Jon Snow, the son of Lyanna Stark (given a crown of blue roses by Rhaegar), at the Wall.

mother of dragons, bride of fire…

The theme for these last three visions is Dany as a bride, so almost certainly these visions show her husbands. (That’s why the uncertainty with the second vision, as she did marry Hizdahr, but Euron and Victarion have both declared their pursuit of her and the willingness to kill anyone in their way.) And of course, the third vision is a major reason for the existence of the Jon/Dany ship amongst book readers, especially because of the “sweetness”, the suggestion that this marriage, at least, will be for love.

Then there’s a last series of visions, showing Dany where she came from, what she will become:

Shadows whirled and danced inside a tent, boneless and terrible.

Mirri Maz Duur’s tent, where she performed the ritual that saved Drogo’s life (but not his soul and mind) and killed Rhaego.

A little girl ran barefoot toward a big house with a red door.

Almost certainly little Dany in Braavos, but some wonder if this is a vision of the future, Dany’s own daughter.

Mirri Maz Duur shrieked in the flames, a dragon bursting from her brow.

The birth of Dany’s dragons (metaphorically).

Behind a silver horse the bloody corpse of a naked man bounced and dragged.

The wineseller who tried to assassinate Dany at Vaes Dothrak. (And the reason why Drogo decided to support her conquering Westeros, the reason he ended up in the battle where he took his deathly wound.)

A white lion ran through grass taller than a man.

This may be the hrakkar Drogo slew in the Dothraki Sea, whose pelt Dany now wears. Or it may be a metaphorical vision, referring to Tyrion (a lion of Lannister with white-blond hair, and a dwarf). We’ll just have to see.

Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed.

Hasn’t happened yet, but will – after Dany is brought to Vaes Dothrak by the khalasar that finds her in the wilderness at the end of ADWD, something will happen (perhaps the fire for death), and the dosh khaleen will accept that she is truly the promised prince, the khal of khals, the Stallion Who Mounts the World.

Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands as she raced by on her silver, riding like the wind. “Mother!” they cried. “Mother, mother!”

The mhysa scene, after Dany frees the slaves of Yunkai.

And that’s it. Hope that helps!

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