Losing it

Languages of Skyrim, 4E197

The languages of Skyrim as described in my language-focused apocrypha, Languages of Tamriel, which fleshes out the linguistic situation of Tamriel in the Fourth Era.

>> Direct link to the map <<

Confession: I would love to listen to audiobooks narrated by Hermaeus Mora. Elder Scrolls lore books for preference, but I wouldn't be picky! My wife and my sister both think I'm bonkers for this though . . .

So Altmer can live to be like 300 and usually only have one kid. Wouldn’t that be hell on their society? A perpetually aging population for centuries who are having at most two kids? Net zero population growth. A lot of their youth also probably run off and die in war or Daedric conflict or dragon attacks since those seem to happen constantly.

A question about Dagoth Ur

I don’t normally do rambles on main but, I actually have a question that has itched the back of my mind. And I figured more of the TES lore masters can answer or discuss

How does Dagoth Ur actually react to a non-Dunmer Nerevarine?

Yeah I see a lot of jokes about the whole “farm tool” stuff for Argonians and Khajiits on other sites. Plus, that one meme of a Dagoth Ur AI meet up with an Argonian, but I want to actually know his honest thoughts on one that isn’t a Dunmer.

After all there were indications such as a dream sequence where it quotes: “purge the n’wah from Morrowind!”

And, during the first meeting he stated he wanted to “drive the mongrel dogs of the Empire from Morrowind”

It begs the question also how he would react to one that is an Imperial as well.

Maybe I haven’t been looking in the right places but I figured to ask the fellow people on here that are the best are crafting theories and reasoning on here too!

Just two nerds

where are all the elder scrolls lore conversations? How am i supposed to watch fudgemuppet when i dont have a mutual i can talk about the lore for 3 hours. this is my way of asking if anyone else needs a mutual to talk about Elder scrolls lore

Sheogorath IS Lorkhan!!!

My take on the creation of Mundus goes like this. Lorkhan god of space wishes to create the physical realm Mundus.

Why? Because his fellow Et'Ada may all be powerful gods but with nothing to do they would remain big balls of untapped potential for eternity. In other words, what use is space to grow with no limitations from which to break through? Or bounce off of? You can't build muscle without resistance. You'll never fulfill your potential if there's no motivation to do so. Take Arkay, a god like any other but with no mortals to live and die, no souls to psychopomp, what is he for?

So Lorkhan decides to create Mundus by playing a trick on some of his fellow Et'Ada, while recruiting others to help him play the trick. Those he tricked would one day become the Aedra, Magna Ge and the Earth Bones. Those he recruited, as well as those who refused to take part one way or the other, would become the Daedra.

But part of Lorkhan's plan was its failure. He intended to get caught last minute, and at the moment of Convention Magnus and his followers fled Mundus creating the sun and stars, while the Trinimac and the Aedra ripped Lorkhan apart, his broken body created the moons, his heart was launched into the sea where it would create Red Mountain and eventually the Numidium, and his soul was shattered throughout time and space to wander Nirn as the Shezzarine. This is when the Deadra who didn't follow Lorkhan saw their opportunity, and attacked. Jyggalag, the mind of Lorkhan that sought to bring order to this crazy universe, was driven mad and cursed to live as Sheogorath.

In short, Mankar Camoran was right. So where's my proof?

Let's start with linguistics. The Bretons are man-mer, one foot in both sides of the Ehlnofey schism. They have the merish view of Lorkhan as this devilish trickster god, but they call him Sheor, like his manish name Shor.

Shor - Sheor - Sheogorath

Lorkhan is also known as Shezarr, the missing god of the Cyrodiilic pantheon. That Lorkhan shaped hole keeps getting filled with gods of war/ spirits of the endeavours of man. One such god was Ebonarm, sworn enemy of all Daedra, with the notable exception of Sheogorath. Why is that? Perhaps Ebonarm sought vengeance for Lorkhan's betrayal, which Sheogorath is not only innocent but one of the victims?

How about that guy you meet in The Shivering Isles, Dyus of Mytheria? He is the one thing of Jyggalag's world that Sheogorath refuses to destroy after returning from the Greymarch; his librarian. The keeper of the knowledge of CREATION ITSELF! Not only is Sheogorath unable to bring himself to destroy Dyus, he keeps him immortal and imprisoned in the library.

"As the Great Library, it once contained all the knowledge in creation. However, spare me your grief. My imprisonment is as meaningless as my immortality. Time and place are nothing. Constructs of a feeble mortal mind attempting to categorize and understand the world around it. If you were one of the fortunate few, you would one day understand and accept this. However, you are not and you will not."

"Contained within its walls were the logical prediction of every action ever taken by any creature, mortal or Daedric. Every birth. Every death. The rise of Tiber Septim. The Numidium. Everything. All predicted with the formulae found within Jyggalag's library."

It's interesting he uses both Tiber Septim (Talos) and Numidium as examples as both are examples of those Lorkhan shaped gods filling the Shezarr hole, and both use the heart of Lorkhan/Mantella to achieve divine power. So Jyggalag/Sheogorath hold the knowledge of creation, which they would know because they are manifestations of the mind of the creator Lorkhan.

Mankar Camoran believed that Mundus was a realm of Oblivion as Lorkhan was a Daedric Prince (Jyggalag??), so Dagon has every right to inherit it. This can easily be written off as an excuse to dominate the mortal plain, but if my theory is right then this belief is a legitimate way of interpreting it. If Mehrunes Dagon was one of Lorkhan's loyal recruits he might want to conquer what he sees as his inheritance.

"How little you understand! You cannot stop Lord Dagon. The Principalities have sparkled as gems in the black reaches of Oblivion since the First Morning. Many are their names and the names of their masters: the Coldharbour of Meridia, Peryite's Quagmire, the ten Moonshadows of Mephala, and... and Dawn's Beauty, the Princedom of Lorkhan... misnamed 'Tamriel' by deluded mortals."

"Yes, you understand now. Tamriel is just one more Daedric realm of Oblivion, long since lost to its Prince when he was betrayed by those that served him. Lord Dagon cannot invade Tamriel, his birthright! He comes to liberate the Occupied Lands!"

Consider Boethiah. If Lorkhan was plotting against the other Et'Ada who would make a better ally than the Prince of plots? Consider what she did to Trinimac, the Aedra that "killed" Lorkhan. She not only humiliated him in battle, she ate and excreted him as Malacath. In doing so she transformed his followers into the Orcs. She exposed the grandest Aedroth knight to be just the same as the Daedra, using Mundus as a playground and mortals as toys, and she turned his merish followers into ugly brutes, exactly what the mer accuse men of being. And she did so in the service of the Chimer, leading more elves away from their "ancestors". I mean, she could have just killed him... But she chose to destroy what he was. Strip away his pretensions. It just feels personal. Vengeful.

Consider also that Boethiah is almost certainly the Night Mother of the Dark Brotherhood. Think about it. Why would Sithis care about contract murder in Tamriel? He is the void. Boethiah on the other hand is all about sneaking around plotting to murder people, and tricking a bunch of goths into worshipping the wrong god. Using the corpse of some poor Bravil girl she has made a cult to Lorkhan, who is a being of Sithis. Ever wonder why the statue of Sithis in Oblivion is of a man with his heart ripped out? Remind you of anyone?

But it's just a theory. It gets crazier when you accept that Lorkhan and Akatosh are the same person. But that's a rambling theory for another blog.

I'm probably gonna get some hate for this but oh well, this is something I keep seeing a lot of lately in the tes fandom and it really irks me.

As a huge, unapologetic Thalmor and Altmer enjoyer, I am sick and tired of everyone making the same kind of characters. I keep constantly seeing OCs and such of Altmer that don't follow the traditional customs of Altmeri society or are ex-Thalmor that found out about the horrors of the Dominion etc. and decided to rebel/desert.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind this as a concept, but it's so boring when everyone does it. It becomes so oversaturated and dull. Everyone keeps playing it safe. It's like they're afraid to have a proper villain or someone with questionable morals. It's okay to have antagonists! They are fun to write too and you can love to hate them!

There's so many interesting dynamics you can pull off with this. They don't have to be a flat 2D caricature. The Thalmor in Skyrim are cartoonishly evil and do not touch on the complexities of why they hold such ideologies. We need more Altmer OCs that actually agree with the norms and values of their culture. I feel like potential is being wasted because people just don't seem to like evil or immoral things on here (for example attitudes I've seen towards Molag Bal).

Also in reality, rebellion isn't always glorious or triumphant. People who speak out or disagree with the common agenda do get stamped out. Sometimes it is easier to just conform. Again, there are different avenues you could take this idea but no one seems to want to touch it with a 10 ft pole. Think about how people get brainwashed or fall down pipelines of extreme media. Of course there'd be lots of Altmer that think what they're doing is right, especially given their Divine ancestry, for lack of a better term.

Tl;dr I'd just like to see more entitled, nasty bastards instead of everything being fluffy.

Idk if you've discussed this before, but I saw on one of the asks you like to think about the magical side of things in TES, so was wondering: in your headcanon, which of the schools of magic are probably the most challenging to use and master?

Anon, I just need you to know that this ask sent me into an absolute fit of inspiration writing an entire treatise on this topic from Neloth's point of view, but judging by the amount of unfinished WIPs I'm working with at the moment, I didn't want to leave you (or this question) hanging for months.

I think the most challenging schools are the ones that require the greatest force of will, namely Alteration and Illusion, both of which require you to impose your will on the world around you.

With Illusion, you're manipulating the minds of others. I think @dirty-bosmer had a great passage exploring this from this post of her writing: "Sylawen flushed but rolled her eyes, then shut them. Illusion. She hated Illusion. She wished she could tell him illusion was for the weak, a field of mind games and emotions, just alteration without the grounding laws of physics. Alteration for people who were bad at math. Illusion required Sylawen to be too close to others' emotions, and though she hated to admit it, sometimes she simply didn't understand how other people were supposed to feel."

I IMMEDIATELY adopted that into my headcanons: Illusion is a school that requires you to have a tremendous amount of intuitive empathy to use effectively, which has so many twisted and interesting implications. A master of Illusion, then, might use it very sparingly.

With Alteration, you're directly impacting the world around you but still bound by the laws of the natural world -- creating shields, opening locks, transmuting metals, producing light (I don't care what Skyrim says, light spells are NOT Illusion?? make it make sense). But then there's the school of Thaumaturgy. (This classification was phased out by the time Skyrim came around, and then picked back up in ESO). I like having this distinction from Alteration. Thaumaturgy deals in changing the laws of reality, if only for a brief period of time -- breathing water, levitation, water walking, etc. I think this requires some of the highest skill to master. (I also feel like invisibility should fall under this school, but there's an argument to be made that you could use both concepts to reach the same end goal).

For a truly spectacular take on Alteration (without me splitting hairs about spell classification), I might suggest reading the beginning of chapter 93 (an excellent occult number) of @chameleonspell's Morrowind masterpiece "How to Disappear Completely", which forever altered the way I both view TES fanfic AND how I think about magic in Tamriel.

I'm going to leave my Mysticism rant for another day, because fwew I'll get lost in my own meta and this post is long enough. Thank you so much for asking!! As I said... I do love to talk magic.

On Altmeri textiles...

Altmer culture is permeated by textiles. Textile art is the most prevalent form of Altmer Art outside of Summerset, and it includes tapestries; utilitary textiles like rugs, bedcovers, dividers and elaborate shawls; its main forms are plant fibers such as jute fiber, papires, wicker and cotton, insect fiber (less common than in Morrowind, obviously) like spidersilk and silkworm silk, and livestock fiber such as wool, and indrik fibers. Altmer have been inventive about where they get their fibers and so it is not uncommon to see fibers made from things that would possibly shock other folks considered the pinnacle of crafting prowess in the isles. A good tapestry artist can even dye sinew and incorporate it into their work, it is said. Much of their work is aided by magic or mechanisms like the spinning wheel, and they highly value vibrant pigments. The brighter the color, the higher the caste, and as such there have been color restrictions in place depending on one's station.

They prefer preciousness and detailed work to sturdy textiles due to the weather of the Isles, but Altmer outside Summerset are known to take pride in using their inherited techniques to make warm garments just as easily.

Light and semi-transparent fabrics are held in high esteem, and folding them to achieve brighter colors has led to layered yet cool outwear made of tulle similes and shining silks in the shapes of togas. In fact, much of their clothes are elaborate in their simplicity, since they consist of a single piece of fabric with minimal stitching, folded to taste and ancestral/family customs. Some families have their signature way of dressing, which can include patterns, ways of layering clothes, or even the fabric and its colors.

Adornments are highly valued and it's not unlikely to see an Altmer in brocaded clothes, laden with jewelry usually embellished with aetherquartz and culanda, as well as other more typical stones.

The fact that they're so traditional has led to tremendous technological leaps in the improvement of family techniques being often zealously guarded, and, as a result, certain textile artists are seen as artist-gods for their irreplicable work. Possession of one such garment or piece made by these lineages of masters is a sign of station and prestige

Sometimes I'm really into TES lore and other times I'm like -

Languages of the Mede Empire, 4E197

The languages of the Mede Empire (Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and High Rock) as described in my language-focused apocrypha, Languages of Tamriel, which fleshes out the linguistic situation of Tamriel in the Fourth Era.

>> Direct link to the map <<

Thought it would be cool to see all three of my Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and High Rock language maps combined into one!! Probably won't be able to do any more than these three combined, since I'm already running out of distinctive colors for these languages, but I might make some larger Tamriel-wide ones with language families as a whole.

Where are the clocks in tamriel!!

Sotha Sil is the clockwork god with his clockwork city and clockwork apostles so timekeeping and horology obviously exist in the elder scrolls world and yet we see no widespread evidence of it. Do they even have things like candle clocks? Surely magnus or auriel worshipping groups like the snow elves and altmer would've made some sort of sun dial?

A possible in world explanation is that horology and clockmaking were pioneered by the dwemer and so the practices died out when they vanished, but that doesn't explain the lack of clocks in dwemer ruins. If old dwemer clocks had been discovered, I'm sure people in modern tamriel would've tried to recreate them.

Maybe tamriel could've even had its own version of the quartz crisis when mages invented more accurate clocks powered by magicka and tiny soul gems. Clocks could've even been used as a status symbol, like Kings and nobility would have huge elaborate grandfather clocks in their palaces whereas lower class people were lucky if they had a simple mantel clock in their home or they had to rely on the clock tower in the town square

The Forsworn Protracted People's War

The Civil War in Skyrim is largely inspired by inter-imperialist conflicts and its effects of those caught in the crossfire of munitions and sanctions. Nowhere is this more obvious than in the case of the Forsworn; specifically in Karthwasten and its quarrel with the Silver-Blood clan.

The Silver-Blood are headquartered in Markarth, a clan of Nords who have monopolized much of the Reach, believing that all of Skyrim "belongs to the Nords" entirely.

The S.B's goal is not "liberation for the Nords" who are under the tyrannical rule of the Dominion, but to capitalize on the reactionary culture of Fourth-Era Skyrim by claiming more land and resources in the name of the war; "Nord independence," entitlement. This is not to say that the Nords are incorrect in their resistance to The Empire's capitulation to the White Gold Concordat. The Dominion's leash will only tighten with this disunity.

The lords and aristocracy of Skyrim use the people's suffering to consolidate influence and resources in the region while only perpetuating violence.

Many well-meaning Nords and other inhabitants of Skyrim see exactly these truths through the veil of nationalistic fervor and reactionary slight, many of them would rather deal with capitulating to a new, censored pantheon than bother with resistance at all, especially if it meant that groups like the Silver Blood clan are unable to able to vie for influence. Many of these Men and Mer are already affluent enough to brush off these "miniscule" cultural shifts; but as the Overton Window shifts, those on the perimeters are left vulnerable. Those without this affluency have none to protect them from the rampant warlordism; those without the bloodline fare even worse.

The Reach has historically been a dwelling place for the Forsworn, an indigenous clan of Bretons who live by an entirely re-arranged Pantheon of gods.

Ainethach is one such case, native to The Reach along with his Forsworn cousins; However, he is one of few that remain affluent enough to hold land: The Mining Town of Karthwasten. With his Breton lineage, Nords with a claim to the whole of Skyrim have begun to "offer their services” for "protection” in exchange for their allegiance, loyalty, and resources. There's hardly any accountability in this chaos. Any ragged band with a few swords and arrows could easily maintain this exact strategy for resource extraction. What gives the Silver-Blood, or any bandit clan for that matter the grace to do this in broad daylight, but a slip of paper with the Jarl's seal of approval. Any suspected of disloyalty to the Jarl, and by extension whomever has the support of said Jarl is subject to accusations of treason, simply for the excuse of expropriating their property and throwing them in a work-prison for free labor.

The Reach is unique, with the presence of the Forsworn, What separates these from those like Ainethach and those Bretons like him? Affluency and self-identification. The struggle of The Forsworn does not lie in their lineage, but in their relationship with the ruling forces of The Reach. Due to its geographic location, the region has been subject to some of the harshest of imperial influence and instability. Being so close to the border of Hammerfell and HighRock and never quite gaining enough stability or unity to become independent or fight for self-determination. To add to the problem of her neighbors, The geography is incredibly mountainous which makes it difficult to consolidate resources for attack or defense. Mountain ranges offer a double-edged sword for those who lay claim to them, perfect for a protracted guerrilla war against an invading force, peaks and valleys and natural caves help promote ambush strategies for the strategic. Generational knowledge of the land is required for this tactic, the protracted war approach, to even be considered. Those without this are entirely out of their depth, wholly unprepared for the trouble that will befall them. The advantage of both "legitimate" factions in The Reach lie in their numbers and organization. These advantages fall short (in their own words) of "cleansing" the region of Reachman. The people of The Reach are strong-armed and resilient. They have survived under the thumb of countless empires and tyrants and waged war for liberation for their right to exist in their land for generations. The outsiders encroach ever deeper into Forsworn land yet, The Reachmen hide beneath their noses. The fighting spirit and shared identity of the Forsworn will outlast both the imperial and barbaric encroachment until the Spriggans and Treants commune with us once more.

once again i feel like digging into elder scrolls lore is like playing historian

so. im writing a fanfic that takes place in the first era in resdayn. nerevar is from house mora. the ra'athim clan is part of/the leaders ??? of house mora (listen house mora was a minor house that got absorbed into other houses im working with what i got) and a notable figure from the ra'athim clan is moraelyn

moraelyn is first brought up in the games in daggerfall. he's an important character in the fictional, but based on actual historical figures and likely written about based on retellings and folklore, novel king edward. this was before a lot of the lore was solidifed, but in the novel it describes moraelyn as a 'witch-king'

see, daggerfall came out irl in 1996. i can tell what they meant. when they wrote the novel for the game, they fully intended to just evoke lotr with witch-king of angmar. thats all that was, was to invoke a certain kind of image in the mind of the average fantasy fan who would be playing the games.

but in universe, the term 'witch' is not widely used. its primarily only used in a specific region of tamriel--breton/reachfolk occupied areas, or places where there would be a lotta cultural mixing. we see it a bit in nordic culture, primarily around the reach, high rock, and bits of the summerset isles. it's seemingly used to describe women who are out practicing daedric magic and herbalism in the woods. a couple of covens are mentioned, but you get the picture. they dont seem to be a common phenomenon and most daedric worshipers are called just that--daedric worshipers.

which means i gotta think through an in universe explanation. i mean technically i dont have to, but its fucking bothering me, so yes i have to.

what i came up with is this: the novel 'king edward' where we see the term the most (hes not described as a witch-king by the warrior-poet vivec in the culture moraelyn is actually from so) is from high rock. this is, of course, breton territory, which means bretons would be the primary audience for the novel. so picture this, you're from the following eras after the chimer have turned into the dunmer, and have gone from worshiping daedra to instead worshiping the tribunal. you're passing these stories down primarily orally until someone writes them down. you need to think of a way that communicates to your breton audience in as few words as possible "moraelyn was king in resdayn--what we now know as modern day morrowind and populated by dunmer. this is also back when they worshiped the daedra, not the living gods of the tribunal. he was skilled in magic that was likely daedric in nature and was a devout following of the three". so you call him "the dark elf witch-king" because from that description alone the average breton will go "ohhhhh he does daedric magic and is a dunmer historical figure"