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queenlucythevaliant · 2 years

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PLEASE get started on Hadestown!

Alright, you asked for it 😊

So, I’m not sure how much you know about the show’s history, but Hadestown was in development for ages. I find it fascinating to contrast the different theses (as it were) of the original concept album (kinda), NY Theatre Workshop version, and the final Broadway version. I think it’s the best way to understand any one of them.

The original concept album was something of a commentary on greed, poverty, and economic desperation through the lens of myth. It’s a lot looser than the conceptualizations of the show that were actually meant for theatre.

The NY Theatre Workshop version’s thesis is something to the effect of We need to try (to keep our promises, to make the world better), even though it’s likely futile.

The Broadway version’s is something like We tell sad stories, even though their endings are fixed, because in the telling of them there’s hope along the way

I find both theatre versions very compelling in somewhat different ways because of the fact that they have these different theses. I think the contrast is most explicit in “Road to Hell II”/”Road to Hell (Reprise),” both of which try to interpret the meaning of the show that’s just been performed for the audience.

In the NY Theatre Workshop version, we get:

Everybody looked and everybody saw/ That spring had come again/ With a love song/ With a tale of a love that never dies/ With a love song/ For anyone who tries

Whereas in the Broadway version we get:

[…] It's a love song/ It's a tale of a love from long ago/ It's a sad song/ We keep singing even so/ It's an old song/ It's an old tale from way back when/ And we're gonna sing it again and again/ We're gonna sing it again

(Emphases mine)

It’s worth noting a few things here: 1) The Theatre Workshop’s Hermes (Matthew Saldivar) performs the role with a lot more warmth and compassion for the characters than Andre de Shields does in the Broadway version. Broadway’s Hermes is much more of an observer/narrator, more detached from the events themselves. This is particularly clear in the closing number. 2) The Broadway version of the show has the events/dialogue of “Any Way the Wind Blows” repeating under the lines about how “[Orpheus] could make you see how the world could be in spite of the way that it is.” The Theatre Workshop version doesn’t do that; it emphasizes these lines.

Both versions of the show end with a feeling of optimistic futility, but the Theatre Workshop version’s perspective on this idea has to do with trying, just trying, and then maybe there’s a kind of victory in the attempt. The Broadway version isn’t concerned with victory at all. The hope is found in the fact that the story repeats, and that the hopeful parts at the beginning and the middle are worth repeating, in spite of the fact that tragedy is inevitable.

I find both of these themes incredibly, incredibly compelling. Both have a lot to do with why I love a good tragedy in the first place.

The Theatre workshop version also places a great deal more emphasis on broken promises. In “Chant II,” Persephone is given a verse where she basically tells Euridice, “Don’t trust men. They break their promises.” In Hades’s second verse, he makes a similar complaint about Persephone: “One day she's hot, the next she's cold/ Women are so seasonal/ Women leave again and again.”

Then, in “Epic III,” Orpheus confronts this issue directly. Hades has broken his promises of love to Persephone. He doesn't treat her with the love that he promised her as a young man. This is the problem that he needs to fix.

The dialogue between Hades and Persephone in “Wait for Me II” gets a lot more emphasis in the Theatre Workshop version. It’s in the Broadway version, but there’s a lot of other stuff going on around it. In the Theatre Workshop version, they get to have their conversation uninterrupted. Hades let Orpheus and Euridice try. He and Persephone are going to try again next spring. Who knows if they’ll succeed, but they’ve made a promise.

Backing up a bit, the Orpheus and Euridice characters also have an emphasis on broken promises and trying again in the Theatre Workshop production. It’s crystal clear in the first half of “Promises,” which gets cut in the Broadway version of the song:

[Euridice: ]Promises you made to me/ You said the rivers and the trees/ Would fill our pockets and our plates/ Promises you made/ You said the birds would blanket us/ You said the world was generous/ And wouldn't turn its back on us

The river froze, the trees were bare/ And all the birds, they disappeared/ So me too, I flew away/ From promises you made

[Orpheus:] Promises you made to me/ You said that you would stay with me/ Whatever weather came our way/ Promises you made/ That we would walk, side by side/ Through all the seasons of our lives/ 'Neath any sky, down any road/ Any way the wind blows

Both of them tried. They failed. Now, they reaffirm their love and make new promises as they prepare to try again.

They fail. Does it really matter? the show asks. See how hard they tried! See how noble that effort is! This is a story for anyone who tries, even if they fail; especially if they fail. Try to keep your promises. Try to make the world better, in spite of the way that it is.

The Broadway version, as I said, puts its attention elsewhere. It's about the hope that can be found in telling sad stories over and over.

Accordingly, there's a lot more emphasis placed on the plight of the workers in Hadestown. "Chant (Reprise)" is as much about the workers as it is about Hades and Orpheus.

Why do we turn away instead of standing with him?/ Oh, keep your head-/ Why are we digging our own graves for a living?/ Oh, keep your head-/ If we're free/ Tell me why/ We can't even stand upright?/ If we're free/ Tell me when/ We can stand with our fellow man

And then, of course, there's a frantic hope in the worker's chorus during "Wait for Me (Reprise)," which is entirely new to the Broadway version. It's not just about Orpheus and Euridice trying to escape; it's about "if they can do it, so can we." It's the workers' "show the way" refrain that overshadows the Hades/Persephone dialogue. The hope of the workers is a tangible force in the Broadway show, where it was all but absent in the Theatre Workshop version.

The Broadway version also draws really clear parallels between Hades's relationship with Persephone and Orpheus's with Euridice. In the Workshop version, you get an older couple trying to advise a younger couple. In the Broadway version, there are specific bits of imagery associated with both couples, showing how history repeats. Orpheus draws this parallel explicitly in "Epic III." "I know how it was because he was like me," he sings.

Both Hades and Orpheus both "wanted to take her home"; both "saw her alone against the sky and it was like she was someone [they'd] always known."

It's also a lot clearer that the la la la la... melody is Hades's song to Persephone and that Orpheus is rediscovering it throughout the show, motivated in large part by his own love for Euridice.

These explicit parallels add to the cyclical feeling of the Broadway show. Hades and Persephone, Orpheus and Euridice, again and again. It takes on a universal feeling, applicable to all lovers.

They were in love long ago and they lost each other. Another couple was in love long ago and they lost each other. Every time we tell the story, we remember their love, their hope, the hopes of those around them, and it makes the tragic ending worth it. So we keep singing, for all the tragic lovers in the world, and for all those who had hope and then lost it. To keep the hope alive, in a sense.

You leave both versions of the Hadestown production feeling very differently. The Theatre Workshop version makes you want to keep your promises, to try in the face of futility. The Broadway version makes you want to remember and to keep hope alive. They're very different kinds of bittersweet.

Yet they are both the same story; both the kind of tragedy that I love most. In order for a tragedy to be worth telling, it cannot be utterly bleak. There must be a striving, for something good, true, or beautiful. There must be hope, even if only momentary. The ending can be as devastating as you like-- everyone dead, dreams shattered, nothing accomplished. Yet tragedy sprinkled with striving and with hope is probably my favorite literary genre in the world.

I think both versions of Hadestown have some of both; I don't want to present a false dichotomy here. But the Theatre Workshop Hadestown leans into the striving while the Broadway production leans into the hope. I find both of them heartrendingly beautiful.

#no idea if this was the kind of analysis you were expecting :)#i could talk about this show forever I swear #i recognized some of the philosophers that you referenced last night but don't know them well enough to know if we're on the same page #thanks for indulging me Kaylie #this was fun to write #(and trust me I could go on...)#ask me hard questions #answering Tumblr asks during my lunch break--this is an excellent use of my time #(i say that without a trace of irony--genuinely this is a great way to live my life)

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trickfootpike · 3 years

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OKAYOKAYOKAY now that i've had a few nights to Ruminate here are way too many thoughts from 9/16's show -- fair warning that they aren't *super* coherent as a lot of this i just tried to loosely organize from dms i threw at folks night-of, but it is most of what i remember sticking out to me!

GENERAL THOUGHTS --

last saw the show in august of 2019 - back then i saw it up in the mezzanine, this time i was 7 rows back dead center in the middle of the orchestra. watching the show from the mezzanine feels like a god's eye view of the show while sitting up close in the orchestra is much more like being in the world of men, and how it hits in hadestown particularly is just nuts bc you really do feel like you're on the factory floor.

back in the London production i remember eva playing eurydice with more youth and hope to her, and when the show came to Broadway eurydice hardened. in a world with a pandemic eva seems to have actually shifted this back! Eurydice is still holding tightly onto Orpheus Knowing that the world is unlikely to be kind enough to let them have each other for long but she starts off less faithless than she used to, I suppose I would describe it? she's definitely played more open with others from the beginning rather than having it be something she has to really work towards!

WAIT FOR ME IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT FEELING FROM THE ORCHESTRA THAN THE MEZZANINE AND NOT JUST THE LAMPS. the lamps really only swing out to over the first 2 rows, speaking very generously, anyway. what i remember being most impactful from last time was how the whole theater rumbled as the walls of the set split to reveal hadestown. what i couldn't see and afaik no boot's been able to pick up is the the set ALSO SPLITS AND STRETCHES OPEN AT THE TOP. that awning that covers the balcony lifts and the wall of hadestown is revealed to stretch floor to ceiling and it is just so much, so fucking much oh my god i could not stop hysterically blubbering to myself watching hadestown stretch open like it is absolutely here to devour you whole. it makes you feel the immensity of The Wall. I've linked ig videos of the set pre act 1 and post intermission to give like the best perspective on it i can and tried to film them so they were zoomed as closely as to what my eyes were seeing as I could, but here are also some pictures!

PRE ACT ONE

INTERMISSION

after our lady of the underground when eurydice comes back from hades' office and Persephone is finishing with her show, me being closer this time i was actually able to see amber's face during way down hadestown ii and flowers. and how she portrays seph's feelings re eurydice, it's like : genuine concern and watching over her when she first starts on the line, Quiet Seething and Jealous Rage as the fates' tattle "Hades put his hands on ya" that sticks for a While including the first half of flowers, but as soon as eurydice remembers the meadow her and Orpheus visited her heart just b r e a k s and you can see her wiping away tears. seph's just so caught in her own feelings of helplessness in hadestown. when hades tells her to stay out of him dealing with Orpheus all the fight just deflates out of her and the direct accusing look Orpheus gives her at the end of if it's true mixed with seeing his effect on the workers makes her physically rear back like she's gotten the fight slapped back into her

even with this audience who almost for sure has all seen ht before, there was still the loudest heartbroken gasp when orpheus turned. i know everyone calls this out but it still hit me hard that with a greater percentage of previous viewers in the audience it still hit us all like a fucking brick

and ofc. road to hell ii. it's a millions times more impactful than it already was what with the pandemic, making it through hard times and how they could be hard again but making the best of them even if it doesn't turn out well this time either. i was crying so hard last time but this time i was crying harder but also feeling like a huge weight was being like, very softly cradled in my chest to take some of the burden away

TOM'S HADES/HADES AND PERSEPHONE SPECIFIC THOUGHTS --

Tom's Hades whole tl;dr could be that Hades is a Performance. all those descriptions of him beign "jazzy" and "egodriven" are correct, but there is also this massive vibe he gives off that all his showmanship is there as a cover up for the very pessimistic man at the core of him. when him and persephone are getting along the jazziness is there for genuine playfulness with her, but apart from seph it is a purposeful exaggeration on hades' part to get Whatever it is that he wants. he is playing up aggression as king (see papers) and what he thinks as being suave (see hey little songbird) to maintain his throne and his marriage, and Epic III is the Destruction of that performance. Tom's Hades at the end of Epic III isn't trying to sell anyone anything, you just get to see the suddenly very scared and unsure heart of the man behind the performance of foreman and king. And oh boy is Tom's Hades at his heart unsure. He is so fucking pessimistic; back in Act 1 when Orpheus starts to sing Epic I he turns from Persephone even before she gets reminded of the world above and starts longing for it, because he already expects to see it coming and he doesn't turn back to her Ever Again, literally until he comes to get her in Way Down Hadestown. Not even when she gives him a kiss on the cheek goodbye. His Kiss, The Riot is him trying to figure out how the hell he's gonna be able to rebuild his performance after his whole kingdom saw through it, but he also ends it being so very certain that the deal he figures out for Orpheus Will end with Orpheus failing somehow. There is no doubt in this very pessimistic Hades that doubt will come in, whereas Patrick used the end of His Kiss The Riot almost like he was desperately trying to justify that his doubt came to him only in Persephone's absence

road to hell i: tom's hades loves cheering on the band so much he is Part Of The Problem that Hermes has to get to chill out and it makes so much sense for this jazzy dramatic motherfucker

balcony time (road to hell i until livin' it up on top): when they were upstairs playing dominoes they kept laying their tiles with these overexaggerated movements.. Like when they actually getting along they are so damn flirty and trying so hard to make each other smile and laugh and it is TOO CUTE

way down hadestown: Once Again "I missed ya" gives me no rest, mostly because Tom delivered it with this super coy and cocky grin and Amber immediately smiled back at him like Persephone couldn't help herself

chant i: is spent with him looking up proud into his creation while persephone is looking down with heartbreak and disgust seeing the workers as people in suffering and the ugliness of hadestown. as the song goes on he gets increasingly frustrated like a child who's super proud of the drawing he brought home from school that Persephone has nothing but terrible things to say about. when eurydice starts singing about her suffering seph throws out her arm and points to her like "see! See what you're doing!!" while hades is more in himself processing his disappointment, frustration, heartbreak, but over the next minute you start to see him Formulating A Plan as he watches eurydice. but he doesn't look entirely sold on going through with it until seph throws out her last verse in disgust. it was absolutely the straw that broke the camel's back.

hey little songbird: THO IT SOUNDS SO SEDUCTIVE ON AUDIO. OML DOES IT LEAN INTO EURYDICE'S "STRANGE MAN" DESCRIPTOR. HADES IS LIKE THE CREEPY SALESMAN ON THE CORNER WITH WATCHES AND A TRENCHCOAT. BUT HE'S SELLING HIS SHIT WELL, HE'S JUST ALSO A WEIRDO

Why We Build The Wall/"Behind Closed Doors": That followup on hades' threat when eurydice arrives in hadestown. as hades goes to the stairs he like not whacks, but definitely nudges seph's arm harder than Patrick does to get her attention. when he did she Startled and laid her hand over her arm where he'd tapped her like she was overwhelmed by just that touch........ but then she turns around and watches him take Eurydice up and when he opens his coat and she Realizes you see her whole body go slack. once eurydice goes past the office doors hades turns and lingers staring pointedly down at seph, for *seconds* whereas with patrick i remember it being more of a pointed glance. it drills home that hades is doing this specifically to spite seph and he wants her to know it. and you can see amber discreetly wipe her face before she turns back to "does anybody want a DRINK." there's less direct seduction between hades and eurydice but more explicit threat between hades and seph about eurydice

papers: actually isn't too much Bastärde as it is his Performance. HOWEVER, the way he directs the workers to beat Orpheus is chilling. Like patrick he hangs around, but he's watching until the last 10 seconds so it's way longer. And he makes like the smallest gestures with his hand to direct the workers to the different stages of beating Orpheus, fuck it was twisted

how long: how long actually starts with seph and hades seemingly coming to each other on a similar page - hades came out pensively fiddling with his wedding ring and Amber delivered "I know" like seph was already past the eurydice situation. this also could have been a product of time and seeing how actually little he did "seducing" eurydice lmao

chant ii: very much Hades Sees Orpheus As A Threat™️ (more on this further below) , also dare i say it but tom kills I CONDUCT THE ELECTRIC CITY

epic iii: oh man oh man. he looks so untouched until Orpheus starts the lalas and he goes from completely passive unimpressed face to like. his body unfolds on his stool and his hands go slack and he looked between Orpheus and Persephone when he asked where Orpheus had gotten his melody. he asked it a lot softer than I expected him too as well. a big part of the audience actually laughed when Hades sang his lala because Tom cracks his voice during it but it petered off into sniffling when they realized why and then we were all just crying together as persephone placed the flower in his vest.

lovers desire: SOME VERY CUTE STUFF. hades' performance is broken but tom's hades is still a Jazzy Jazzy Man at heart and they're like 100 times more playful with each other - they're both giggling and grinning their asses off while they dance together and give each other these like nudges to the next series of steps and it was adorable and I was discretely sobbing. they both played it like they knew how to do this dance with each other better than they knew anything, the little nudges were like..... them playing inside this dance they already knew so well? Like more overexaggeration to make each other laugh and just revel in this wonderful thing they've rediscovered- specifically I remember that Amber raised her skirt soooooo high when she was doing the curtsey and Tom was like waggling his eyebrows at her and adding extra flourishes with his hands and widening his eyes super big everytime he pulled off a move (the funniest ones were when they do like the two-step where they move one after another in sequence and he's copying her moves in reverse and oml it was just adorable). When Seph had the move where she pulls their linked arms over his head to tuck him into her I remember that was the one part where he wasn't doing this goofy act but his expression straight up melted and he looked so smitten. and when it's the last bit of the dance and he spins her across the stage, seph's face breaks open with tears his expression responds with like this mix of heartbreak and "ohhhhh no baby please don't cry" as he moved across the stage to quickly take her into his arms for the dip at the end

AFTER this when orphydice has finished promises and right before Orpheus turns to ask Hades if they can go, they come out of slow dancing to the side but are still super wrapped up in each other - seph wraps herself around one of his arms and presses herself super close and Tom leaned down with this little smile like Hades was gonna try and steal a quick kiss, but then he hears/sees out of the corner of his eye/senses or something Orpheus approaching and pulls himself up and formal to be the king. When he says I don't know and seph wrenches herself away from him to the other side of the stage to firmly stand behind Orphydice he gets this look of Extreme Frustration on that she's still not standing with him and these damn kids are still more important, bc even with character growth he still is a petty selfish bitch who does not like to share lmao, he's just getting that he Has To now

wait for me ii: Hades stays onstage by the microphone stand to the left to watch Hermes deliver his judgement to orphydice/seph/the workers and watching Tom during this was a Treat. this is the first time he's seeing how orphydice and esp Orpheus function when he's not involved to terrify them. they're so sweet and so good, and they have what looks like so much unwavering faith in each other unlike him and seph, maybe they really could... so when he delivers "i let them try" that last word is stretched with so much wonder. he's getting this first glimpse into feeling how everyone else felt when orpheus sang of how the world could be that isn't just focused in about how he feels about persephone, which always drives him - now he's having to deal with the Greater Implications and orpheus' seemingly unbreakable faith in a better world rocks him to his core. that certainty that orpheus would fail gets shaken as he watches them and when Seph asks him if he thinks they'll make it, his I Don't Know is 1/2 defensive and 1/2 actual uncertainty. he still hates to be wrong but he's wondering if his beliefs about doubt will turn out differently this time. he isn't optimistic about it by any means but orpheus, eurydice, and the workers' response to them both does give him pause

meanwhile in hades and persephone's section, on a personal level they deliver their lines to each other like they're a great deal more nervous about what next fall will bring than i've seen and heard before - something I'm thinking stems from hades' worldview being so suddenly shaken and seph too being a little more vulnerable?

MISC THOUGHTS

Tom seems to be leaning into Hades not having done anything with Eurydice other than tempt her down - once she's in Hadestown even during Why We Build The Wall he drops the salesman croon entirely and when he does rarely speak to her/about her it's commanding as a king who sees her just as another object under his possession, with very little interest in her for anything at all beyond that. he was just going after the goal of making sure Seph knew he had Options whether or not he actually pursued them

tom is super dedicated to how power-hungry hades is. I remember when I saw Patrick during chant ii he was playing hades as more affected by how much seph seemed to care about the workers now and desperately trying to get her attention back (even negatively), Tom was more consumed in seeing Orpheus as a threat because of how effectively he had turned his "children" on him. He knocks Seph down in those "shackle her from wrist to wrist" less as a personal petty attack to her like Patrick does and more like to try and destabilize her as someone backing Orpheus up. Tom's Hades perceives Orpheus as a Threat no matter how much he plays up his Performance as Nonchalant Jazzy King. he really emphasizes Hades' relationship to Orpheus whereas Patrick played more into his relationship with Eurydice, which makes so much sense what with Tom's Hades being a pettier more egotistical messy bitch obsessed with his kingdom and Patrick's Hades' obsession being his wife and Hadestown being like, this side-effect of being a god that he just couldn't help, he Had to build and strive for power whereas Tom's Hades reveled in it and wanted it. Instinct versus drive I guess. one of my buds put it super well as: "Patrick!Hades sees everything as a threat to his power Tom!Hades is so certain of his power that he can afford to be somewhat nonchalant but the fact that Orpheus alone is his main genuine threat is fucking brilliant"

and ok for now, that's what I've got! if anyone wants any clarification or wants to ask details about specific moments I didn't put in here feel free to shoot me an ask!

#hadestown #em speaks #theater #tom hewitt

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alyona11 · 3 years

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Fates as inner thoughts, yet another meta (why)

Ok, but if we consider that the Fates just vocalise people's thoughts and (mostly) doubts it shows a very interesting perspective for the characters. This thing turned out long, so follow the cut:

To start with let's say that the only characters not affected by Fates are Hermes and Persephone. And if with Hermes the most probable explaination is that he's a narrator and therefore only shows the audience what he wants it to see. Persephone, in my opinion, is a different case altogether. I feel like she doesn't doubt Hades even in the worst days. The idea that gets reprised in her cut Broadway preview Chant verse ("Even where the bricks are stacked/Love is blooming through the cracks/Even when the light is gone / Love is reaching for the sun") and also in staging of How Long when she takes the first steps toward Hades and reaches her hands for him literally showing that she would take him back. We can also add that mb she doesn't experience this doubt because she's numb with alcohol, which is also a possibility, but I think that overall the musical shows her as hopeful and certain.

In comparison to her Eurydice is a character who's always followed by the Fates which shows her constant concern over trusting people. Her doubts kinda settle down as she meets Orpheus and learns to trust him ("in spite of herself"), then strike again after Orpheus fails to provide for her in Chant, forcing her to choose between trusting in Orpheus's song and a possibility of her staying alive. From the other side, Fates also reflect her hopes for finding a better stable life in Hadestown (Way Down Hadestown) and then denounce these vain hopes as Eurydice sees what she signed herself for.

Orpheus gets affected by the Fates the moment he steps into Hadestown starting with "Who are you?/Where do you think you're going?/Who do you think you are?/Why are you all alone?/etc" which I guess shows the effect that the town has on people. However these questions don't really get to Orpheus as he still believes that Eurydice can be brought back, he hasn't really seen how the world is yet. After being "beaten and betrayed" he gets a revelation in Nothing Changes: the world isn't the way he imagined it and he may never get Eurydice back. Finally the questions from Wait For Me return in the reprise of the song, yet now they have a growing effect as Orpheus's doubts grows. Obviously it reaches its peak in Doubt Comes In where it feels like we can hear all his rushed thoughts at once: here are his concerns over seeing himself as "walking on the road alone", about whether or now Eurydice is following after him failing to provide and whether or not Hades has tricked him. All of this creates an effect of pressure if you think of it as of something that takes place only in Orpheus's head.

Hades is also an interesting one. Has no Fates showing up until Word To The Wise. Even though we learn that he is deeply affected by doubts really early in the show. I think the reason why we don't hear his thoughts before WTTW is that he's supressing his emotions all the time before Orpheus's song strickes him. Also he really sticks to the idea of his town, he is sure he is doing a right thing, he doesn't have second thoughts. But Epic III releases his feelings and worries: we see for the first time his concert over being considered heartess because of his actions. Being "a heartless man" creates an oppisition with being "a spineless king". Like with Orpheus in Doubt Comes in there's that impression of seeing someone's rushing thoughts as Hades tries to find a solution. In his head there's that constant fear of everyone watching and analysing his every move ("Whole damn nation's watching you"), ready to get to his throat the moment he shows a shadow of weakness. Also "Men are fools/Oh, men are frail/Give them the rope and they'll hang themselves"? Sir? Stop self-projecting into people? (but his self-projecting is a topic for another long post)

#me being me #hadestown analysis #hadestown #hadestown broadway #hades #eurydice #persephone #orpheus #hadestown musical #the fates #did i really spend more than an hour on that? maybe so

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ratcarney · 4 years

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things that happened at hadestown last night (in no particular order)

- after if it’s true, seph goes up to orpheus, cups his cheek really gently, then walks away.

- orpheus was cranked up to an eleven throughout the whole show. when he said his little toast in livin it up on top, he was so excited that his voice cracked on the first syllable so the entire “to the patroness” section was delivered at a pitch that only dogs should have been able to hear.

- he always started singing in a whisper, though. really quiet, really timid, and then got progressively more confident in his abilities as the songs went on.

- the candle downstage center is the only light source on the whole stage at the end of road to hell, so all the audience can see after the song ends is this tiny flickering flame and then it goes out.

- orpheus had to hold onto himself once she was gone or else he wouldn’t have been able to kneel upright. when she was fully out of sight, he exhaled like all the air was being sucked out of him at once. it was such a SAD SOUND

- the amount of times orpheus and eurydice make out during way down hadestown is RIDICULOUS. god i wish that were me

- i was super stoked for papers, and when it started, i realized that persephone watches the whole time. in the beginning, every few beats she would look like she was going to put a stop to it, but she never did, and eventually just gave up and did nothing but stand there.

- when orpheus went on his knees for come home with me, his whole fuckin body was VIBRATING,, he was so excited,,

- when orpheus asks hades whether they can go or not, hades is still holding persephone, but once he says “i don’t know,” persephone rips away from him in disgust and goes to stand next to orpheus.

- in road to hell i, it looked like orpheus was clapping just slightly out of time and it was ADORABLE

- we really got to see the fates’ different personalities. clotho (yvette) was super playful and smiley the whole time, teasing orpheus and eurydice during the beginning of epic iii and any way the wind blows respectively.

- orpheus was completely WRECKED during doubt comes in. i know he’s supposed to be, but oh my god. jewelle passed by behind him and he JUMPED. there’s one point where eurydice goes to reach for him after her first verse and he goes to cover his ears and continue the dying lalalas. it was PAINFUL.

- john and afra’s workers are ADORABLE. during epic iii they were holding each other’s hands and john had afra pressed to his side. when hermes said “do you trust each other?” in wait for me ii intro, john glanced at afra, even though she didn’t look at him back.

- the only jewelry persephone wears is the black choker, and that directly corresponds with hades’s “hang a chain around her throat” line in chant ii.

- when persephone said “let him finish, hades,” it was different. instead of saying it for orpheus’s sake, it was like she was saying it for her own sake. it was her moment of selfishness in which we saw her glare at her husband as if to say “give orpheus a chance because I need to hear this. if this is the last time i ever hear this boy sing then you are NOT going to ruin it for me.”

- everyone took a sip of seph’s wine during livin’ it up and then making faces and looking at each other like this shit is DISGUSTING

- hermes went up to eurydice and let her bring his hand to her face, where she stayed and closed her eyes for a second, but then he walked away.

- eurydice reached for orpheus in when the chips are down, but the fates blocked her.

- clotho teases orpheus in the beginning of epic iii by giving him his guitar and then pulling it away really quick, then giving it to him for real, all with the BIGGEST GRIN ON HER FACE

- at the end of lover’s desire, orpheus has gone back to eurydice, but hades steps towards them, and IMMEDIATELY, orpheus steps in front of eurydice with his arm up to protect her. there’s a beat, and then hades steps back.

- persephone’s “YOU’RE EARLY” was not surprised at all. it was delivered in more of a mocking tone, like “what the fuck else is new?”

- when eurydice was singing gone i’m gone, orpheus smiled down at his notebook from the side of the stage. it created this wild dissonance between them; eurydice is literally starving while orpheus truly believes he’s doing the right thing. he believes that everything is going to turn out okay. he genuinely cannot see the extent to which eurydice is suffering.

- in the last part of a gathering storm, eurydice goes over after saying “finish it” and kisses orpheus’s shoulder, but he barely notices.

- when eurydice asks “is he always like this” in chant, hermes doesn’t answer, he just points at orpheus and raises his hands.

- “the girl means nothing to me” came out really fast and defensive, as if it was really a response to persephone using the past tense for “he has the kind of love for her that you and i once had.”

- hades was barely able to get his lalalas out through his tears at the end of epic iii and persephone had to keep wiping her tears away she was crying so much.

- orpheus was so BOUNCY?? like he jumped SO MUCH. he SPRUNG to protect eurydice from hades in way down hadestown after she said “kinda makes you wonder how it feels.”

- persephone just sat and watched flowers.

- when she came up in why we build the wall, eurydice looked at persephone and she put out her hands as if to calm persephone down. she was trying to say “i made my choice. it’s over.”

#it was so good #hadestown #hadestown musical #hadestown broadway #hadestown bway #orpheus #eurydice #hermes #persephone #hades #eva noblezada #reeve carney #amber gray #andré de shields #patrick page #jo.posts

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nytwhadestown · 5 years

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Hadestown Broadway Reflection

Woo! Saw the show last Saturday and I have been Processing. Love love love and lots of thoughts. Like lots lots so under the cut:

"I don't know how I feel about Andre just because I'm so used to Chris' Hermes and they're so different and I think the adjustment will be hard-- MY MAN. JE VOUS

AIME." Andre really commands a stage. He is cool and suave and brings the audience right in. You're on Hermes' side right away. WOOT TWooT Shout out to the trombone player. It wasn't the usual guy but he was so good.

Loved the changes to Any Way The Wind Blows to make it abt specific climate issues. Loved how it introduced Eurydice, and the conflict of the world being out of tune.

I kind of miss the NYTW version because the fates play it so eerie. My ideal Hadestown has two versions of Any Way The Wind Blows just so I can get the best of both worlds I love this song.

"I know I'm not being fair at all, but I loved Damon Daunno's Orpheus so much that Reeve is going to have to work twice as hard to win me over" (leans over to my mom the second Orpheus and Eurydice see each other) "he won me over." He played such a sweet, honest and hopeful Orpheus. Really loved his portrayal. He's a good boy.

Honestly if it comes down to it I still prefer Damon (esp as a singer, his falsetto is stronger and his voice is clearer) but this isn’t a one or the other situation-

I just really love any and all Orpheuses. 10/10. He went SO goddamn heart eyes over her.

So did I!! Eva’s voice, her power.

When he gets everyone into the Epics, I would just get chills every time.

One thing I missed was the power behind Orpheus' idealism.

I did see a bit of it in "If It's True" when he started examining the corruption of the underworld, but I liked it better when he had something to say about it all along.

I think he still could have been a sweeter, more guileless Orpheus and kept the power of his idealism.

Ex. NYTW Orpheus had a few lines speaking out against Hades/capitalism/etc. which was fitting because he loves life, and therefore is a natural mouthpiece against Hades (=Death). I guess it makes sense that most of the complaints about Hadestown come from those who have been there, but I think Orpheus as a leader of the workers would have worked better if he still had a *little* bite to him.

Way Down slaps so much. Just a ton of fun. Always a favorite and I was just boppin in my seat. GHOD this show gives me so much joy.

I really liked it when they attributed the changes in weather and the coming of hard times to "the world being out of tune." Now, Orpheus isn't sitting on his ass rather than helping Eurydice. Instead, he is doing all he can think of- trying to get the whole world back in tune for her. It's a naive ideal, still, but he is doing everything he can to give her a better world. The whole world. So much better, this boy is trying so hard for her.

Hey Little Songbird was somehow terrifying and thrilling and a little hot.

When the Chips Are Down was a jam but also Eurydice's choice was so sad to watch. And how they kicked her into the choice. Interesting detail: the "ticket" to the Underworld is two silver coins. It occured to me when Eurydice held them in front of her eyes that they were a reference to the two silver coins the ancient greeks would place over the eyes of the dead to pay passage to the underworld. Loved the details in this show.

Don't want to give too much away but the set during Wait For Me is my favorite character.

...except for Persephone during Why We Build the Wall. My eyes were on her the whole time. Her soul looked so crushed it was heartbreaking. Truly Tony-Worthy.

WHICH BRINGS ME TO ACT TWO: Our Lady of the Underground. WEEEEEHAW.

Persephone gives Hermes a kiss on the cheek and I just gasped "god I wish that were me."

Way Down 2 as usual, underrated fave.

I liked the development of what I'd picked up on of the worker's souls and individual personalities fading away under the dehumanization of their labor. It was possibly my favorite blend of myth and anti-capitalist themes: the River Lethe/Loss of Identity.

It made Flowers clearer and without Flowers changing much if at all. And all the more heartbreaking for it.

EVA NOBLEZADA the emotion....the power. she really ripped my heart out.

Come Home With Me II was so :,( but I loved the immediate reconciliation of just clear and simple love and forgiveness.

Poor Orpheus was so roughed up it was hard to watch. Reeve acted through that really well.

I did like the call to arms that Orpheus did and how it roused the workers to action and to his side, but it felt sort of impersonal. I think his grief is too

important to his motivation. I almost wish it were more of a two parter- the grief and pain and then in another song maybe, the call to arms.

Amber Gray and Patrick Page acted the HELL out of How Long, which I've always loved for its subtle power and man did it hit me.

RIP Persephone's Verse in Chant

RIP me watching Patrick's expressions in Epic III and how he and Amber looked at each other in pain and dismay.

Honestly I was distraught and in an emotional puddle for the rest of the show so not many more specifics.

I love this show and all the joy and sorrow it has woven into it so well. Bravo Miss Mitchell, Bravo!

#long post #hadestown #broadway

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cdyssey · 5 years

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Hadestown (7/14/19), Act II

The second half of my thoughts and incoherent rambling from Hadestown! Act I is here.

“Our Lady of the Underground” —

A.K.A. Again, and I cannot stress this enough, but Amber Gray is the love of my life.

She comes out with a flask in her hand, which she surreptitiously sticks into her bra, so she can dance, lololol.

Her energy and vitality are just so infectious. When she smiles, you can't help but smile. When she start giving shout-outs to the musicians, the rumble of pride in her voice echoes throughout Walter Kerr.

Hermes escorts her at the beginning of the song and then stands off to the side as she sings. He eventually gives her her bouquet of flowers, and she gives him her flask.

“There’s a crack in the WALLLLLLLLLLLLL.” She lifts her flowers into the air as bright [sun]light shines down upon her. It’s an amazing, joyous moment.

“She’s right here waiting in my pay-per-view.” Smirking, Persephone taps her noggin.

“What the boss don’t know, the boss won’t mind.” Having retrieved her flask again, she takes a sip. I got major Prohibition vibes from this line, which is to say that as far as Persephone’s character development goes, you get the sense that she’s ready to rebel against her husband to help our heroes. It’s a big leap from Orpheus’s line about how Persephone is drowning in wine and oblivion.

“Way Down Hadestown (Reprise)” —

OH, this song. THIS SONG MADE ME WEEPY.

So in this one, Eurydice comes out of Hades’s office dressed in worker clothes. She watches in horror as the company workers toil around her, repeating the refrain, “Keep your head low.”

The dichotomy between Persephone looking up at the “crack in the wall,” and the workers keeping their heads low in order to avoid trouble is incredible. Their spirits have been entirely broken, and Eurydice is up next.

She tries to get the workers to acknowledge her, but the Fates mock her for the futility of the action. They’re obviously taking glee at Eurydice’s situation.

Another incredible dichotomy: the jauntiness of “Way Down Hadestown,” which Eurydice once smiled at, and the sinister spin the reprise puts on the chorus. Hermes and Persephone did try to warn her after all.

“Hades laid his hands on you and gave you everlasting life.” HOO BOY—this subversion of religious language was INCREDIBLE.

“Flowers” —

;-;

In “Flowers,” all of the workers except for Eurydice are collapsed on the ground, exhausted and dead to the world. She’s on floor as well, the lone figure lit by light.

“I remember someone / Someone by my side / Turned his face to mine / And then I turned away.” Okay, after I stopped tearing up over these lines, I immediately started tearing up again when I realized that Eurydice doesn’t remember Orpheus’s name.

She doesn’t even know her own.

“Papers” / “Nothing Changes” / “If It’s True”

“Papers” is Hades confronting Orpheus about sneaking into Hadestown.

When Persephone tries to vouch for Orpheus and Hades tell her, “You stay out of this,” Patrick doesn’t say it as softly as he does on the OBC—he practically yells it at her, and she flinches into silence.

ALSO, GOD, Patrick’s EVIL ENERGY is wiiiiiiild in this one. I love him????

In the “Papers (Instrumental), Hades directs the workers to attack Orpheus, and they, like, beat him up. This is the scene where Timothy lifts him!!

At the end of “Papers,” Orpheus is collapsed on the ground holding his side. He stays like this through “Nothing Changes.”

“Nothing Changes” reminds me of how much the Fates sound like a choir. I love them.

Plot wise, it’s them sowing the first seeds of doubt and defeat into Orpheus’s head. While he initially overcomes their temptations, I think he’s never fully able to shake them away after this, a struggle which carries into “If It’s True.”

Ugh, another song I wish I had the OBC track to listen to for reference, but this one is largely Orpheus’s doubt and idealism warring against each other. If it’s true what the Fates and Hades are saying, he wants to leave, but he’s also not entirely ready to give up. I think this is also the one where he and Eurydice start to rouse the workers’ spirits, showing them that there is hope.

“How Long” —

I love “How Long” so, so much. It might be a contender for my favorite.

Incredible and moving and vulnerable and tragic. Hades is. Persephone is. They are.

For large parts of the song, they stand on opposite sides of the elevator, which has been lowered so it looks like a pit, a chasm—obviously symbolic of the breach that divides them.

Again, for almost the entire song, Hades never takes his eyes off Persephone, while Persephone turns her head away from him after she’s done singing her verses. I’m so tender for them.

When Hades sings, the lighting changes into a fiery amber, while when Persephone sings, the lighting dulls to a cool blue. It’s an interesting dichotomy. Hades’s makes sense because of his anger and general association with the color red, but I took the blue to symbolize Persephone’s deep sadness. It seeps from her; it pervades the stage.

Lively and joyful she may be most of the time, but deep down on the inside, Persephone is sad.

At one point, they both make it to front stage and stand side by side. Watch their shadows on the floor at this point. It’s a marvelous effect. (Also, watch the shadows on the walls and floor in general! The workers circling the platform in “Chant” especially comes to mind. The lighting in this show is INSANE.)

When they share their final verse, half of the stage is orange, and the other half is blue.

I was emo, y’all.

“Chant” (Reprise) —

In “Chant II,” Hades realizes that Orpheus is rallying his workers. He pulls a lever or something, which signals that they should get back to work, and they do for a couple of “Keep your head lows” until they go into the new refrain of asking why people turn their backs on each other.

GOD, what a joyous change. Orpheus and Eurydice’s light has given them the courage to question the system for themselves. “Why do we build a wall and then call it freedom?”

Hades grows increasingly angry throughout the reprise. You get the feeling that he’s losing control of his kingdom, and he not only knows it but fears it. He’s frantically trying to grasp onto whatever some semblance of authority he has left.

The thesis of this song is just powerful. If we raise our voices and raise our heads, we can effect change.

“I CONDUCT THE ELECTRIC CITY.” First of all, I LOVE PATRICK PAGE, AND HE ABSOLUTELY DID NOT HAVE TO GO THIS HARD, BUT HE DID BECAUSE HE’S AMAZING, AND DID I MENTION THAT I LOVE HIM??? Secondly, when he sings this line, the lights flash bright before flickering out for a couple of seconds.

While he’s counting down (1... 2... 3...), he angrily stomps down the staircase and crosses over to the side of the stage where Hermes gives him a barstool. He takes it and slams it on the ground to wait for “Epic III.”

“Epic III” —

Not 2 belabor the point, but this entire damn musical made me an emotional wreck, and “Epic III” was no exception. It was a religious experience, at once both simple and sublime.

Right before it starts, Hades slowly snaps his fingers twice in expectation.

Hades doesn't really react to the song until the moment Orpheus sings his first “la, la, las.” At those, he immediately gets up and crosses over to Orpheus, shocked and enraged, fully intending to interrupt him: “Where did you get(?) that melody?” Persephone stops him before he can do anything and implores him to let Orpheus finish.

Of course, he recognizes the melody because it used to be his and Persephone’s once upon a time.

(Hgjkahgjkskjnksjfkjhkashfkj—I was tender.)

Orpheus falters after the interruption, but Hermes, placing a hand on his shoulder, encourages him to keep going.

Anyway, REEVE CARNEY DESERVED A DAMN TONY, PART TWO.

If Hades was spellbound, then the entire theater was, too. A boy and a lyre and a song—it doesn’t seem like much, but it was quite literally everything.

Right before Hades echoes Orpheus, there’s a poignant pause in which Persephone turns to fully face him—she hadn’t quite been looking at him before.

Very softly, very gently, she extends her hands to him... and as soon as they touch, Hades finds his song again: “La la la la la la la.”

My God, I cried.

At the end of Epic III, the carnation “appears” in Hades’s hand. (Holy hell—I don’t know how he did it; it was really quite like it magically appeared.)

Persephone wipes tears from her eyes as she holds on to her husband, as they hold on to each other.

Also, this isn’t on the soundtrack, but there’s a brief instrumental between “Epic III” and “Promises” where Hades and Persephone dance. They hold each other so tenderly. Their eyes never leave each other’s faces. The flower is in Hades’s lapel.

It honest to God made me believe in love again.

“Promises” / “Word to the Wise” / “His Kiss, The Riot” —

This is awful, but unfortunately, I don’t remember that much of how “Promises” was staged. ;-; I was still being emo over Hades and Persephone because “Epic III” ruined me.

While Eurydice and Orpheus sing, they stand still on the corner of the stage holding each other, her head buried in his shoulder, and his head tucked against her neck. They don’t move. They never let each other go.

Towards the end of “Promises,” Orpheus or Eurydice one convince the other that the king will let them go now that he’s rediscovered his love again, which takes us into “Word to the Wise.”

As soon as Hades admits that he doesn’t know whether he’ll let them go, Persephone violently parts from him, repulsed that he still hasn’t made up his mind in the right direction.

Just as the Fates had teased and mocked Eurydice during “When the Chips Are Down,” they do the same to Hades here. Their impartial wickedness is so good.

“Give him a rope, and he’ll hang himself.” This advice is definitely the seed for the compromise Hades ends up giving Orpheus. Also, ooooh, fun fact: in Greek mythology, death by hanging has metaphoric resonances of extinguishing one’s voice, which, of course, is a tragedy for a poet, a singer, an artist.

And in the end, he does just as the Fates predicted, doesn’t he?

Ugh, the dark orchestration for “His Kiss, The Riot” is chilling. That accordion??? Incredible.

After the brief instrumental section, he addresses Hermes and conveys his plan to him. This is why Hermes is the one who tells Orpheus, Eurydice, and the workers what’s up in “Wait For Me (Reprise)”.

“Nothing makes a man so bold as a woman’s smile and a hand to hold.” He glances over Persephone as he sings this.

For the most part, Hades sits on his barstool for this one; it really reminded me of a Shakespearean soliloquy!

“Wait For Me (Reprise)” / “Doubt Comes In” —

The intro to the reprise is so heavy. Hermes is just weary. He knows what Hades is up to. “Divide and conquer is what it’s called.”

“It’s a trap.” / “It’s a trial.” Orpheus’s newfound skepticism really makes itself apparent in this one. He thinks the world’s out to get him, he doesn’t particularly trust himself or Eurydice anymore. The writing’s on the wall, and Hermes knows it better than anyone: “The dog you really gotta dread is the one that howls inside your head.”

Eurydice and Orpheus singing the “Wait For Me” chorus together is so unbelievably powerful. God, I don’t think there was a dry eye in the house through these last few songs.

“Show the way so we can see. Show the way the world could be.” The company repeats this refrain because they’re literally following Orpheus and Eurydice, too. ;-; I didn’t realize this until I saw it staged.

“Wait for me.” / “I will.” Hades and Persephone stare at each other and grasp hands. He gives her the carnation, and for the rest of the reprise, she holds it up—a small beacon of hope, a vivid pop of color against a woman clothed in black. Bye. I’m crying again.

And then, when Eurydice ends “Wait For Me”—JESSIE SLAYED THESE VERSES—you can see the hope and belief in her face as she begins to follow Orpheus. She has no doubt that he’ll lead her home.

The light shines bright on Eurydice one last time before the entire stage is plunged into darkness for “Doubt Comes In.”

The staging for “Doubt Comes In” is absolutely incredible. Wow. So there are rings on the stage that rotate—various characters utilize them for walking during songs, and they’re used to brilliant effect here.

Orpheus walks along the outer ring in the darkness; it’s so dark that you can’t see Eurydice and the workers behind him, which adds to the notion that he’s alone, entirely alone. When Eurydice or the workers sing, they’re briefly illuminated only to be plunged into the darkness once again.

Orpheus tries to comfort himself by singing his song, but the doubt and the darkness are too much, too overwhelming. He makes it to the final staircase, and the light signifying the outside is the most vivid location onstage.

When the final note rings out, he turns around, and there Eurydice is. She was there all along.

The elevator takes her back to Hadestown as Orpheus collapses to his knees.

“Road to Hell (Reprise)” / Ovation / “We Raise Our Cups” —

You know how I mentioned that Hermes’s footsteps were the only sounds audible at the beginning of “Road to Hell”? The same holds true here as he walks back onto stage, slowly and wearily. He’s sung this song before, but by the gods, as this song tells us, he’ll sing it again and again.

I never realized that they did this until I saw it live, but as the music ascends into a more hopeful mood, the cast members reset the stage, so that it’s almost exactly as it was at the beginning of the musical. They even go through the same scene of Eurydice entering from the cold and lighting her candle. (OH, and I meant to mention this in my Act I write up, but right after Eurydice descends to Hadestown in “Gone, I’m Gone,” Hermes blows her candle out. 😭)

When the cast lined up on the stage for the bows, the whole theater stood up and clapped for at least ten minutes. I was so overwhelmed with pride and love for every single performer on that stage, that I couldn’t help but tear up.

And then, Persephone and Eurydice sing “We Raise Our Cups.” Orpheus is the only one who doesn’t join in, watching silently as the entirety of Hadestown raises their cups to him.

To the world we dream about and the world we live in... this musical was a life-changing experience, and I’m so thankful that I could inhabit Orpheus’s world, even if just for a brief fraction of this eternity.

Stagedoor: —

This was my first stagedoor, and it was so much fun!! The cast was so lovely and nice and obliging.

My friend and I got a picture with Reeve; he’s really good at stagedoor. He took his time with everyone and made sure everyone who wanted a signature or a picture got one!

I didn’t quite know what to say to anyone because I was just so in awe of them, but I had an amazing interaction with Kay! I told her that it was really important to me to see Asian representation on Broadway, and her face lit up! I love her.

#hadestown #persephone #eurydice #orpheus #hades #broadway #reginianwrites #p: hadestown

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finelythreadedsky · 5 years

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semi-coherent hadestown thoughts

ok the come home with me/wedding song and epic ii/chant sequences are SO GOOD!!! you can really hear the song in progress and how it is very much not finished, you can hear orpheus working through his creative process and trying to figure it out. and it’s so reflective of how the epics have worked out too! we’ve seen so many different versions of them as anais mitchell has worked through HER creative process to get to this point and i love that meta view into artistic production

(i’ve decided that it’s better to suspend disbelief and assume that the section before way down hadestown takes place over a longer period of time-- a whole summer, since we see persephone leaving for the end of summer then, and she’s with hades during road to hell, so that could be the previous winter. oh and that makes the show take a full year which is cool and brings it around in a cycle.)

reeve carney’s orpheus is so very EARNEST!!! so tentative but so sweet and sincere. that took a lot of getting used to for me but it makes for such lovely character dynamics and seems so realistic in a way that actively works against trying to see orpheus as an archetypal figure-- he’s just one man. and it does so well with setting up doubt comes in because he’s always been a little unsure of himself

and eva noblezada’s eurydice-- spunky, scruffy, scrappy, and such a different person than orpheus. it somehow fits in a sort of opposites attract way that is the complete reverse of the dynamics the characters used to have: eurydice is the confident one who knows how the world works, orpheus is the one who’s unsure of who he is in relation to her and the world. just thinking about the vast difference between eva’s voice and characterization and anais’s on the concept album... wow eurydice’s come so far in so many different incarnations

i’m still not over how eurydice genuinely believes in orpheus and his ability to sing the spring back again. it takes so much vulnerability from her and at nytw eurydice really wasn’t all the way there but she really does believe in him and the power of song. despite how unfinished his song is every time she hears it she sees what it could do and what the world could be even when orpheus isn’t sure

i’m also really grateful that persephone’s apparent/potential alcoholism is something that’s not taken lightly in the script. the role of alcohol as a part of her character has grown a lot with every iteration and it’s acknowledged as an unhealthy way she tries to cope with who she and hades have become (i am kind of disappointed that the amazing imagery of our lady of the underground isn’t really translatable to the stage because i love persephone as a speakeasy owner selling the workers illegal bits of sunshine and summertime and mortal life and i kind of wish that could have been depicted literally)

oh and i lOVE the way way down hadestown reprise explains the lyrics of flowers, which i’ve always loved but thought didn’t really fit with the whole stage show (still interpreting “i trembled when he laid me out” as about orpheus burying her though. there was so much potential for weird staging there to parallel all i’ve even known!!! but glad they didn’t take that route, it would’ve distracted from eva)

i maintain that the first half of the original if its true could have been included as a leadup to the current version. that would have been so beautiful and shown us orpheus turning outward from internal grief and despair to collective outrage and action, but i guess it would have made the song pretty long. i think it an extended version would have made such a cool climax for the second act, but it probably would have also stolen the thunder from epic iii a little.

rip persephone’s verse in chant reprise, but i get that the intention was to have persephone be struck by orpheus’s song in epic iii just as much as hades so she can’t seem to be affected or reminiscing about how things used to be before that

i still love the original epic ii and iii lyrics (gorgeous metaphors very connected to classical literature) but this is. Good Stuff (tm). and now we have all of them! on june 7th i’m gonna line up all the concept, nytw, and broadway epics to create the Ultimate Epic (tm) and it will be like half an hour i’m so excited

i wonder if there were copyright issues with the afghan folk song that has been lover’s desire up to this point? the current version is what orpheus is singing in chant, so it ties the scene more firmly to the song of their love and implies that that melody is how the old song that forms epic iii ends

i really did think they were going to cut word to the wise for broadway. take that as you will.

that last part of his kiss the riot!!! hades is singing about himself and he realizes it!!! he’s testing orpheus as a proxy for himself-- if orpheus cannot trust a woman he cannot see, why should hades even try? but orpheus fails and hades DOESN’T give up. he commits to persephone spending the right amount of time away from him even if it seems so long before even waiting to see whether orpheus fails the task he has set for him-- it’s time for spring because it’s time for you to go even if i don’t want you to, and wait for me/i will is don’t come get me until it’s the right time (just like in the song versions, wait for me and trust that i’m coming) and he agrees

and of course, wait for me and the reprise are STUNNING as always but somehow even more so

#mine #hadestown

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notesofarichlycolorednight · 5 years

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OBC Hadestown Recording Review by a Non-Professional that you didn’t ask for

Alt. click-bait title: THEMES! THEMES! THEMES!

so i just listened to the Hadestown OBCR

so as practice, i’m going to do this review (i have a lot to say if you hadn’t noticed) like a sandwich--positives, mixed, neutral, negatives, more positives

and yes, I compare it to the NY version. it would be Impossible for me not to, considering that’s all I had for years. but I did listen to it with an open mind and wide-eyed excitement

YAS QUEEN

Amber Grey and Patrick Page, lovely as always

I’m glad they introduced Hades in “Road To Hell” also that Hermes is like...is there another god? oh yeah, ME!

Eva Noblezada was AMAZING and I love her Eurydice

Reeve Carney sounds like an wide-eyed, naive, optimistic musician and it’s Wonderful

the overall themes and a more cohesive story--like there were of course themes threaded thru the NY recording, but the themes were much stronger in this version

Hermes being Orpheus’s mentor, rather than just the narrator and occasionally interacting with Orpheus bc he can? the exchange between them reads less like “I’m kind of picking on your bc you’re an artist” and more like “yikes, bro, you messed up. and bc I’m your mentor, and the god of Travelers, I’mma help you out a little”

oh yes, LOVE LOVE LOVE “Wedding Song” and oh, I LOVED that he sang his song in this version (hope to see what happens on stage some day ;_;)

the OBC version of “Livin’ it Up on Top” is still fun as always and I love they included the joke “to hell and back”

Orpheus’s lyrics in “All I’ve Ever Known” are So. Soft. our soft, poor boy Orpheus

Reeve and Eva’s voices fit together really well and I’m cry

“A Gathering Storm” is just Gorgeous storytelling right there, mmhmm. And oh shit, the “It’s not supposed to be like this” damn. And Eurydice’s “bring the world back into tune” Love it.

oh dude, the doubt in “Epic II” mirroring Orpheus’s later doubt poetictheater.jpeg

the lead in from “Epic II” to “Chant” always Great. And oh man, loved more of the storytelling and Eurydice’s lyrics in “Chant” okay but the juxtaposition of Hermes telling Orpheus telling him to look up while the Chorus chants to keep your head low oh jeez. And Eva sounds Great in “Chant” like DAMN

shaken, not stirred

Andre De Shields, sorry bro.

intellectual: I think his performance was great and the way he portrays Hermes fits really well with the style and aesthetic of Hadestown.

emotional: unfortunately, I don’t like his voice. and yes, I’m definitely biased for NY Hermes, but this is like a personal preference type thing. his voice is like the opposite of a stim for me... :\ which is unfortunate, because I did enjoy his performance

“Road To Hell” is before “Any Way The Wind Blows”

intellectual: it definitely fits this version, and I really liked hearing more about Eurydice and understanding her struggles and why falling in love with Orpheus is such a big thing for her

emotional: but I kinda liked the order in the NY version. it kinda felt like a preface to the story itself, and like even tho Hermes is the narrator, beginning with a song the Fates sing, it shows who’s truly in charge (they DO in fact control the speed at which lobsters die)

tho if I’m being honest, “Livin’ it Up on Top” doesn’t quite have that kick the NY version has. idk if instruments or missing or there isn’t enough ppl singing, but there’s just something missing, which takes a little of the fun out of it

It again feels like something is missing from “Way Down Hadestown” :\

intellectual: I guess I understand why they gave Orpheus’s lyrics to the Fates and Hermes (bc like how would he know what it’s like down there, truly?)

emotional: but I also didn’t like it bc as I’ll talk abt a lot in a min, it really takes away from Reeve’s performance

I’m actually super disappointed that Reeve/Orephus wasn’t featured as much as in the NY recording. his voice is almost completely drowned out almost entirely through “Wait For Me.”

intellectual: I quite enjoyed that the rest of the cast acted as the stones echoing back his song, and that it fit with and strengthened the overall themes and plot of the musical. I’m glad that this version has a more cohesive story and stronger themes

emotional: but it was no longer about Orpheus and his journey, and I think they could’ve kept the themes while also featuring Reeve’s voice. esp in such an Iconic song for Orpheus like “Wait For Me”

“If It’s True” I was tempted to put this in the negatives section bc I feel like it really takes away from Orpheus’s story (get ready to here a lot of repetition sorry not sorry fam). but there are some things I liked abt it.

intellectual: I liked that in the OBC version, that it was more abt the theme they’d introduced abt the workers’/chorus’s struggle and Hades’s struggle to keep them nameless, so to speak. I also did like that they show Orpheus’s worldview change. and fucking finally gave Reeve a chance to shine (kinda, with interjections from Hermes and the Chorus)

emotional: but I do think they went abt it the wrong way, bc I liked that it addressed just Orpheus and his feelings of what’s gone on (specifically Eurydice belonging to Hades) in the NY version, and I didn’t like that in the OBC version that it Was more abt the themes. I also felt like it got a little preachy. Like that’s not what I thought the original “If It’s True” was abt yo. I get it fits with the overall theme and message they want to get across, but I don’t think their execution was that Great :\ I also really liked that in the NY version, him just being sad is what moved both Persephone and the Chorus

“Wait For Me (Reprise)” is the same as with “Wait For Me”

intellectual: I’m not saying that the new, stronger themes are bad or anything--like I’ve said, I Loved that they strengthened the themes and made the musical more cohesive overall.

emotional:

(+): Okay but also I really Love Eurydice singing what Orpheus sang in “Wait For me”

(-): Reeve’s voice is often drowned out and it’s no longer about his and Eurydice’s story as much (it’s in the very first song! “brother, thus, begins the tale of ORPHEUS AND EURYDICE”). I really do think they could have gone about it in a way that highlights Reeve as Orpheus AND keeps with the theme and the message they wanted to get across by including the Chorus. I mean look! Look! Reeve stands off to the side or isn’t singing for like ALMOST THE WHOLE SONG DUDE. he gets 36 measly seconds singing in this song, I timed it. it’s a 3 mins and 12 second song. and most of those seconds are spent singing the song with the chorus (I do not, however, really count the times Hermes is speaking bc those lines are Great and when Eurydice is singing at the end, but Still!). like I said, I’m so glad they have Eurydice singing his song back to him, but I Really Do Think they could have composed it so it was still Orpheus’s song (with Hermes, and Eurydice at the end, keep that of course!), but held those stronger themes.

“Doubt Comes In” ...like at this point, are you even surprised?

intellectual: strong themes. great. okay.

emotional:

(+): I Loved Eurydice’s part in this, encouraging Orpheus even tho he can’t hear her. I also did love that they added in Orpheus’s thoughts--pique drama, I LOVED it

(-): third verse, same as the first (and second): Reeve just wasn’t featured as much as I would have liked him to be! the Fates get the lines Orpheus used to sing! when Orpheus sang, “where are you? where are you now?” the first time more steady and sing-song-y, the second time more desperate (but still beautiful holy shit Damon Daunno was Amazing) as he starts to go out of his mind,,, i felt that and i’m incredibly disappointed (and angry lbr) that they took those lines away from Orpheus.

not really a point, but this needs its own bullet point: it just does Reeve a huge disservice, bc he’s a Great Orpheus. I Loved his Orpheus, but the fact that he’s taken out of so much of the story he’s the protagonist in detracts severely from his performance, and it’s a damn shame

I did really liked that they made the “la la la” more complicated in “Epic III” and when Persephone and Hades danced, and how it was softer, but I also liked how powerful the “la la la” crescendo as Hermes, Persephone (I believe) and the Chorus joined in along with the instruments was in the NY version so,,, ¯\_( : \ )_/¯

I don’t think they changed any of the lyrics for “Road To Hell (Reprise)” (they added stuff, sure) but it sounded and felt different, and I’m upset that it wasn’t the same as the NY. it’s in this section tho, bc it was still good (think I like the NY version just slightly better, but I do like the OBC version too, but for different reasons)

neutral(ish)

the change of characters who says/sings lines isn’t my fave, but it’s not bad either and, based on the theme and more cohesive storyline, it makes sense

I’m trying to decide if Patrick Page’s descent from a higher vocal range into a lower one is a stylistic choice, but I don’t feel one particular way about it or another (except for the fact that it didn’t sound like him I questioned if it was at first)...tho the bass drops for “Hey Little Songbird” so maybe it was a stylistic choice and if so, Brilliant! (but it will stay in this spot since I can’t tell if that was intentional)

I’m a little surprised they didn’t give Eurydice her spot light in “Why We Build the Wall” but it’s not like it changes the story much. I think I just liked that she stood out, and with those lyrics, bc it’s dramatic irony--we know her mistake but she doesn’t yet realize that it is a mistake she’s made

“Word to the Wise” it was good. not great. I liked NY version better, but I think I mildly like NY Fates better bc they sang in a very harsh and solid way. like in some parts the OBC Fates do too, but not in the songs where it matters (to me)

the changes made to the Epics. I liked the more story-telling aspect of them, but I also didn’t quite love the changes. but the songs themselves were still p great, so (it’s here, rather in the mixed section) bc I don’t particularly feel as strong one way or another abt the NY Epics compared to the OBC Epics

Once again, I feel like smth is missing from “Word to the Wise” :\ like some kind of instrument to really push it into extraordinary, to hold it up. But the Fates were a little better at being brutal so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i guess

hard no, babe

that being said, regarding first point in the neutral section, I didn’t like that they took away (even) more of Orpheus’s lines because it then removes (even) more of his voice, when he’s HALF THE FEATURE OF THE STORY. I know it’s really about two love stories (and like I said before, it does strengthen the themes and overall storyline), but the main focus was Orpheus and Eurydice !!!

the sound of the train whistle. mmm, I’ll pass. it’s so dinky. bring back the NY train!

The way Reeve says/sings some of his lines (not all of ‘em tho) could use some work? doesn’t sound great. didn’t love it. idk if it was a stylistic choice on the director’s part or Reeve’s own choices in how he wanted to play Orpheus, but I didn’t agree with them. I think he uses his falsetto a little too much for some lines. And let me tell you, was very afraid they were going to do that three-voice thing (like in the concept album) when Orpheus meets Eurydice. glad they didn’t, but I also didn’t really think they needed it at all

I’m actually uber disappointed they took out the old radio sound for Hermes in “Wait For Me.” I just really liked it man.

ngl, I. was. Heartbroken. when they’d changed the lyrics to Epic III (which is why it’s in this section :\). Esp like I CANNOT BELIEVE THEY CHANGED “where is the man, WITH HIS HAT IN HIS HANDS, who stands in the garden, with nothing to lose” (emphasis mine). like, again, i understand the changes were made to keep with the themes introduced, BUT can you Imagine. holding the whole world in your arms (when Hades gets the girl) compared to holding something so small and insignificant (BEFORE Hades gets the girl). COME ON! it’s like the perfect juxtaposition AND I thought it made Hades much more human AND it still keeps with the themes. (tho I am glad they kept that part at all bc when I realized how much of “Epic III” they changed, I was worried they’d taken that part out too. it’s in this section tho bc the changes are unforgivable overall)

Come Home With Me I and II (Reprise) !!! I’m extremely sad they changed the lyrics so much. Admittedly, I do like the first “Come Home With Me” introducing his song that will bring spring back. But the changes are too unforgivable for me to put it in the mixed section. I really liked Orpheus’s proposal in “Come Home With Me II” in the NY version and that repetition of “say I do, I came all the way just to ask you to” and then the Fates step in and are like, “Mmm, sorry boo, she belongs to Hades now” and the song ending with Eurydice saying “I do” but with a totally different meaning. like okay, the OBC version fits more with the theme, and I’m glad they still kinda included it in “Papers” (I do actually like the way it’s composed in “Papers” if I’m being honest, the “I did. I do.” just,,, hits me) but it’s too unforgivable to put in the mixed section. OH GOD and. esp,,, okay Listen. HOW could they take out “are you always this confident?” // “when I look at you I am” and then later hearing Hades sing, “Orpheus the undersigned SHALL NOT LOOK BEHIND // SHE’S OUT OF SIGHT and he’s out of his mind” LIKE COME ON MAN that was Perfect AND YOU TOOK IT OUT ???

the Fates in their “Way Down Hadestown (Reprise)” I Loved the NY bc they Tore into Eurydice (I love my girl, but that song is a Bop and they are Ruthless). the way they sang, it was harsh and cutting. in the OBCR...not so much. It’s too sing-songy and embellished (is the best way I can explain it), and I was disappointed bc it was one of my fave songs in the NY version. not to mention, I Did Not Like Eurydice’s lyric changes. and I know that it strengthens the themes, and I did actually like that they showed Eurydice losing herself as she worked (esp bc it adds more to “Flowers” and again strengthens the thread linking the songs), but I disliked it as a whole enough that it can’t be saved to be moved into the mixed section

OH NO I. CANNOT. BELIEVE. THEY CHANGED “YOU’RE EARLY” // “I MISSED YOU” TO “IT’S YOU” // “IT’S ME” // “ORPHEUS” // “EURYDICE” FUCK YOUR THEMES but for real, I think keeping “you’re early” // “I missed you” would’ve have kept with the theme way more than what they changed it to bc 1) they’re referencing smth the two litchrally just said to each other. and 2) THAT’S WHAT PERSEPHONE AND HADES SAID TO EACH OTHER WHEN HE CAME TO GET HER FROM HADESTOWN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SHOW. it’s a theme that’s introduced in the beginning of the musical--“it’s a tale from long ago”--bc Persephone and Hades’s relationship was SUPPOSED to mirror Orpheus and Eurydice right? there’s the fact that Orpheus’s song is what Hades heard long ago like ??? a HUGE Point of Orpheus and Eurydice’s love story was to remind Persephone and Hades about the love they shared when they first met (“wait for me?” // “I will”). and gosh darn it, it still would’ve fit the themes if they had stuck with “you’re early” // “I missed you” bc of that!

SPEAKING OF I CAN’T BELIEVE THEY TOOK OUT PERSEPHONE’S LYRICS IN “CHANT (REPRISE)” LIKE WHAT like it worked so well !!! (esp bc I’ve read reviews of the show, with Hades and Persephone circling Orpheus and Eurydice as they’re dueling and switching the direction they walk when the chorus makes that “kch” noise like poetictheater.jpeg) it was such a good juxtaposition between what Hades thinks Persephone wants and what Persephone actually wants (I do like that “Chant (Reprise)” is more complicated composition-wise, but not enough to move it into the mixed section). ALSO “He said we’d build ‘em up // And then the walls would set us free” // “Is it true, what he said?” // “He said we’d soldier on // And then the war would bring us peace.” I thought that got across the message quite well in the NY version, esp since they were echoing Orpheus’s “if it’s true.” they’re also just Great lines and I Cannot Believe they took them out

YAS QUEEN

I’m a HOE for singing in the round, and the beauty of Orpheus’s “la la la la” joined in by the chorus in “Wait For Me” got me like. OKAY AND THE LYRIC ADDITIONS I LITERALLY CANNOT IT’S SO BEAUTIFUL AND POETIC AND GOOD WHEN ORPHEUS SANG “I HEAR THE ROCKS AND STONE, ECHOING MY SONG, I’M COMING”

I mean,,, how can you Not like “Our Lady of the Underground.” I also really enjoyed the more jazzy feel. Like it was already jazzy, but it’s even more jazzy in this version, to me

if you couldn’t tell, I loved Reeve and his Orpheus

“Papers” is Great and idk why but I Love “everything and everyone in Hadestown, I own.”

oh shit dude, Orpheus’s song being something from long ago that he like picked up on bc Greek mythology be like that and then HADES RECOGNIZING THE SONG. THAT. WAS. BRILLIANT.

“Flowers” felt like it fit much better in this version, with the themes being stronger and all that. also could actually hear it clearly, so that could be why bc I’m pretty sure they didn’t change a single lyric lol. still Loved it

the lyric additions to “Wait For Me” I’M SCREAM SO GOOD (even tho I’ve mentioned this before lmao)

“How Long” was. so. good. I just really enjoyed the exchange between Persephone and Hades in this song

DUDE I JUST REALIZED “NOW I SING A DIFFERENT SONG” FROM THE ONE ORPHEUS REMINDS HADES OF BRILLIANT

“Oh, it’s about me?” that made me laugh out loud. Oh god Also the repetition of lyrics in “All I’ve Ever Known” in “Epic III” to show that Orpheus and Eurydice’s love mirrors Persephone and Hades’s? poetictheater.jpeg

“Promises” omg. I actually liked this one better than NY “Promises” sorry not sorry. don’t get me wrong, Eurydice has every right to tell Orpheus off since he made all those promises he couldn’t keep in the NY “Promises” but in OBC “Promises” it feels more mutual. it feels softer. rather than Eurydice going, “you done messed up A-A-Ron” it’s more like Orpheus going, “I done fucked up and I’m sorry.” Orpheus is more self-aware and I liked that.

dudes, I’m extremely happy they added Eurydice back in for “We Raise Our Cups” it really rounds everything out. And it’s just a really good epilogue song. (I’m curious to see if Reeve is out on stage for this or if he stays backstage)

Final thoughts: the stronger themes were Great. don’t get me wrong. okay. I liked that about this version. but I feel like by trying to be too In With The Times(TM) they lost some of the heart of the story, which ultimately detracted from Reeve’s performance as Orpheus.

sometimes I really think a story can be just a story about two people (or two love stories), and the themes and messages will find their way in naturally. it doesn’t need to be this big thing about everyone all of a sudden. at the very least, bc it’s obvious the themes and messages are stronger in the OBC version, it does take some work and planning, but I felt like they were trying just a tad too hard and ended up being too heavy-handed.

I thought the themes and message they were originally trying to get across got across just find in the NY composition (specifically for “Wait For Me (Reprise)” bc the themes are definitely stronger throughout the overall musical in the OBCR composition)

now, I’m not saying don’t include messages in your art, that’s what art is for! But I think they could have either kept it about how it was in the NY version, because there were still messages (just a little more lucid and not as strong) OR they could have composed it some way that kept the stronger themes and messages AND kept the importance and presence of Orpheus’s role, and Orpheus and Eurydice’s story.

for me, Orpheus, esp OBC and Reeve’s Orpheus, doesn’t strike me as the guy to start a revolution and lead the Chorus thru hell. Like when the Fates say, “who are you to think that you can hold your head up higher than your fellow man?” I honestly get confused bc,,, he... doesn’t think that though? He just loves Eurydice and wants to save her from Hadestown. and maybe that’s actually the point? that Orpheus wasn’t ready for the pressure suddenly put on him to not just lead Eurydice out but also all of Hades’s workers, so doubt came in. but then what was with “If It’s True?” which, as I said, did start to sound pretty preachy? not to mention, the one time their themes and messages aren’t clear

anyway, long story long, the way I see Orpheus is his voice just does That. it doesn’t have to have some secret, overarching message for his songs to influence and move people. in the original “If It’s True” he sang about his loss and it was emotional enough to move Hades’s workers. to me Orpheus’s gift, his music, his voice is about emotion. and I think of Coco in that respect: “de la Cruz was a nobody, but when he sang, people listened” paired with, “I didn’t write it for the world, I wrote it for Coco” yet “Remember Me” (and all his songs) still resonated and moved people

so anyway, here’s my Hadestown hot take: Reeve wasn’t nominated for a Tony because the new composition underutilized him as Orpheus

no i don’t take criticism

#hadestown #obc hadestown #obcr hadestown #nytw hadestown #long post #i had so much to say #cheep cheep cheep #washingdad reviews

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fairskyabove · 6 years

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What's wrong with the edmonton version of hadestown?

i have a Lot to say so i’m putting a full list of all the changes under the cut but tl;dr: a lot of the most important moments of the show are different and it’s really unclear what the messages of the show even are now, and it’s honestly hard to imagine this version going anywhere near broadway

first a note about the cast. this is of course subject to opinion (and i’m only going on audio, i have no idea if the staging and visual acting would change my opinion at all), but i thought this cast was overall weaker than the nytw cast. tv and reeve didn’t seem to have much chemistry, and both were weaker than nabiyah and damon vocally. kingsley as hermes is very different, his voice doesn’t have the same raspy quality and doesn’t seem to carry the same weight as the narrator, it doesn’t feel like he has the same knowledge of the direction of the story. i like the expanded chorus and hades’s workers, and i like the new fates. amber and patrick seem like they’re pretty much carrying the show, they have amazing chemistry and both are really strong vocally. it’s definitely possible that the cast got more comfortable after this audio, since all i’ve heard is the second preview, but from what i did hear the nytw cast was much stronger.

this list is really long but i’m sure i missed some stuff, so this isn’t like Officially all the changes. also if you don’t read the whole thing i understand bc it’s a lot but the most important part is the part about promises so i would look at that if i were you! also a lot of this discussion came from conversation with maya @davey-jacobsofficial so this is not all my own thoughts! ok here’s a (mostly) comprehensive list of things that were changed:

a shortened and slightly changed version any way the wind blows was moved to after road to hell, which is a little jarring in the flow of the story. i liked any way the wind blows as a sort of prologue, setting the mood before we get into the story. it established the fates as having knowledge and control, and it felt a little dream-like before we got thrown into meeting the characters. it doesn’t make a ton of sense to me to move it after but anyways

road to hell:

some minor lyric changes in the beginning

hermes introduces orpheus and eurydice differently (orpheus is described as singing to himself on the tracks waiting for someone like eurydice)

any way the wind blows:

there’s a man singing with the fates on some lines, i’m not sure who it is or what the point is (might be orpheus, and the intent might be more clear with visuals)

sister’s gone/brother’s gone verse is changed to “wind comes up, ooh do you hear that sound? wind comes up, move to another town”

hermes comes in after this verse and narrates, he explains eurydice’s character a little and there’s a new part where she asks if anyone has a match and then grabs something from someone, probably meant to show us that she can fend for herself and add a litttle context for all i’ve ever known

come home with me:

initial dialogue is different, eurydice seems more aggressive/closed off, orpheus asks her to make a home right there, she says it’s in the middle of nowhere. he claims spring is coming any day, she says it’s late, they go into “a singer, is that what you are?” and then into the song normally

lyrics from there on are almost the same, a few words changed every once in a while

epic i is completely cut, which i don’t understand at all because it’s kind of important for people who don’t know persephone’s story, and makes the epics less of a recurring thing through the whole story, and it ruins the element of orpheus singing about persephone and hades each separately and then finally together in epic iii

livin’ it up on top:

nothing is changed except the last line of orpheus’s toast, which is changed to “to the world we dream about, and the one we live in now,” which kind of changes his whole world view. in the old version, he showed his idealism, believing they could live in a perfect world that they dream of, which fits with his act 1 characterization. in this version he’s just stating that they don’t live in the world they want to, there’s no optimism and it takes away the whole significance of his toast

all i’ve ever known

no changes

way down hadestown

no changes

wind theme

some new dialogue where eurydice sees everyone else leaving and wants to do the same, orpheus doesn’t want to leave his home, and says it’s her home too. short reprise of the “wind comes up” section from any way the wind blows

epic ii

no changes

chant

added line for eurydice before “all the pretty songs you sing ain’t gonna shelter us” where she is getting caught in the storm, singing about the wind surrounding her and how orpheus promised the wind would never change which would be great build up for promises if they hadn’t ruined it

small lyric change in between verses, orpheus sings “a mighty king, a mighty queen” and hermes sings “this year their fighting made/the mightiest storm you’ve ever seen”

after the next verse eurydice sings “love, can you hear me now/answer if you can somehow/orpheus in all my years/never seen a storm like this” and then back into the normal “now i see/all the pretty songs you sing ain’t gonna harbor me…”

right after that hermes sings “eurydice was a hungry young girl/she was no stranger to the wind/but she had not seen nothing/like the mighty storm she got caught in. only took a minute/but the wrath of the gods was in it”

persephone’s verse after this has some lyric changes, mostly talking about how she doesn’t recognize hades anymore as the man she married

hey, little songbird

a couple words changed here and there, hades’s last part is changed to “hey, little songbird, look all around you/see how the vipers and vultures surround you/they’ll take you down/they’ll pick you clean/if you stick around such a desperate scene/see, people get mean/when the chips are down”

when the chips are down

no changes

gone, i’m gone

no changes

wait for me

no changes

why we build the wall

tempo is slightly faster, not sure why

the larger chorus sounds good, it’s more powerful

no lyric changes

our lady of the underground

no changes. thank god for amber gray

way down hadestown ii

no changes

flowers

no changes and honestly i’m surprised they didn’t screw this up too

come home with me ii

they cut “are you always this confident?/when i look at you i am” which was significant wrt doubt comes in and the fact that orpheus loses his confidence because he can’t see eurydice (creds to maya on this one)

papers

no changes

nothing changes

no changes

if it’s true

added a section where hades’s workers repeat orpheus’s message, then orpheus directly addresses the workers like a rebel leader with some added lyrics (i actually like this part, it shows the workers taking an interest and makes hades’s dilemna clearer)

how long

no changes, amber and patrick are trying their best to save the show

chant ii

added section for the workers before hades enters, after hermes’s introduction, wondering what will happen to orpheus, workers sing small parts throughout the song

there are no other changes on the audio i have, but apparently a section was deleted for later performances

epic iii

no changes

lover’s desire

no changes

alright some big structural changes here. right after lover’s desire there’s a new section of dialogue where eurydice tells orpheus to take her home, and says everything he said in act 1 was true (about spring coming etc), pretty much the opposite of what she says at nytw. orpheus says not everything he said was true, he said the wind would never change, etc, he basically takes eurydice’s lines from the first verse of promises and they’re spoken instead of sung. orpheus says he can’t promise the wind won’t change, eurydice says “don’t [promise], just take me home.” orpheus launches into the second half of promises, starting with “i have no ring for your finger.” orpheus sings his verse, eurydice sings hers, then they have another new section of dialogue. they agree to leave, eurydice asks how, orpheus suggests that they walk. eurydice asks about hades, orpheus says hades won’t be able to tell them no, and he isn’t going back alone. they sing their duet verse.

this change is the one i have the biggest issue with. by changing the order of the songs, we lose the moment where hermes tells them they have to trust each other completely and they realize they don’t. we lose a really important part of eurydice’s character, that she was able to speak up and tell orpheus what’s wrong. in this version she has no complaints, he has to tell her that he he isn’t perfect and he couldn’t keep his promises while she acts like he has no flaws. it takes away her agency in the relationship and makes it seem like she got lost and ended up in hadestown and had to wait patiently for orpheus to come save her, when there is So Much More to it than that. we also lose the entire part where they discuss all the ways they’ve let each other down and how they promise to move forward and do better. we lose the resolution of the issues that have been haunting in their relationship since chant, where they both grow up and they both realize that they can’t have the perfect relationship they talked about in wedding song, but they love each other enough that they’re ok with a realistic relationship (maya’s point). we’ve lost the feeling of hopelessness they had at nytw, from the fact that eurydice had literally sold her soul and believed she would be stuck in hell forever. in this version they act like all of the sudden they can just walk out. ultimately what we have in this version is an empty resolution with no build up. all the tension is gone, they never acknowledge anything that’s wrong in their relationship. instead they make empty promises to be together forever despite the fact that they made those promises before, and in this version nothing has changed since then. in the old version, promises added to the heartbreak of doubt comes in, because there’s a moment of clarity between them and they trust each other, they’re ready to move forward just in time to lose each other forever. taking promises away changes the flow of the whole show and makes orpheus and eurydice’s relationship a lot emptier and less mature, taking away from the tragedy of their story. thanks for coming to my TED talk.

word to the wise

no changes

his kiss the riot

no changes

wait for me ii

still starts with hermes giving the good and bad news (same basic meaning, just with slightly different words)

eurydice asks why orpheus can’t look at her, hermes tells her it’s the gods testing them, connecting the “divide and conquer” method to the wall. hermes asks them if they trust each other and themselves. they say they do without any reflection on their relationship or honestly any proof that they even love each other but it’s fine

orpheus asks if it’s a trick, hermes says it’s a test. the song continues like normal from there and we all pretend this part of the show carries the same weight as it did before even though everything’s wrong

doubt comes in

some lyric changes for the fates. now instead of orpheus and the fates singing “where are you, where are you now” it’s just the fates singing “where is she, where is she now” which is cool when you think about it as them planting doubt in orpheus’s head

orpheus sings an added section about how he can see his future with eurydice, one of the fates responds that his story sounds the same as the day eurydice left him for hadestown, there’s some more back and forth along these lines

eurydice’s comfort has some lyric changes but it’s mostly along the same lines

it’s hard to hear what they say when orpheus turns around, but they 100% took out “you’re early/i missed you” which i don’t even see the point of. it took like 5 seconds of the show and fit so well with the situation, it contrasted the relationships between orpheus and eurydice and hades and persephone, and it showed so perfectly their relationship dynamic! going back to maya’s point from earlier, it was so perfect in showing how much orpheus relies on eurydice for his confidence and how he can’t succeed without her! but i guess we’re taking out all the development of their relationship so we can focus on other things

road to hell

this now starts with hermes saying “alright…” and then taking a deep breath and saying it again as if he needs a minute or he’s trying to calm the audience or something? which i feel like is kind of out of character for him. at nytw, he definitely showed emotion when things weren’t going well for orpheus and eurydice, but i felt like his vibe was more “it sucks but this is how the world is” which is one of the big discussions in the show (does the song “nothing changes” ring a bell?) and it makes more sense for a god who’s been around since the beginning of time and seen all the other greek myths and how they end. i don’t think he would be shocked or panicked or whatever kingsley is doing here. especially considering that he obviously knows the end of the story way the whole time, so he always knows where we’re headed (that’s the whole point of “it’s an old song/it’s a tragedy/we’re gonna sing it again/it’s a sad song but we sing it anyway”), so i don’t know what this choice is supposed to tell us.

there are some lyric changes beyond that, mostly saying “that’s how it goes/that’s how it is” which contradicts his opening but it’s mostly along the same lines. he literally sings “we know how it ends, but still we sing it again” so what was he doing??

there’s an added line at the end where eurydice sings between hermes’s lines “orpheus was a poor boy but he had a gift to give,” asking if anyone has a match and grabbing something from someone exactly like in road to hell which maya thought might be like a flashback? which seems like the most likely thing but i don’t really understand why they added it there, it doesn’t seem like it fits, if anything it should be a flashback to orpheus at the beginning. unless that’s when orpheus and eurydice first see each other or something that’s only visual and we can’t hear it

i raise my cup

no changes, but apparently they moved this song to after the curtain call after this audio was recorded, which is honestly just stupid

if you made it through this i’m very impressed. in conclusion the edmonton version is trash and i have no idea what the creative team is thinking.

#this is. much longer than i planned but here you go #also tell me what you think it you've listened to it #hadestown #hadestown edmonton #Anonymous #ask box #this one's mine

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ratcarney · 5 years

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doubt comes in: a complete analysis

first of all, for all intents and purposes, london!orpheus has no rights, and here’s why:

london!orpheus has a self-assured confidence to him. he does not pause before dialogue—he does not need to. “come home with me” is driven solely by confidence that eurydice will definitely, 100% fall for him. hermes mentions that “eurydice knew how to survive,” but “orpheus knew how to live.” orpheus’s drop-to-his-knees, spur-of-the-moment, pseudo-proposal has lively arrogance behind it.

broadway!orpheus, however, is the exact opposite. he is constantly driven by dreaminess and a perpetual, underlying anxiety. there is absolutely no arrogance whatsoever behind his characterization.

while confident london!orpheus is, admittedly, VERY sexy, he is unable to bring the same emotion to songs such as “wait for me,” “if it’s true,” and “doubt comes in” (the latter especially!!). he starts the show very sure of himself and stays that way through act i and most of act ii. while one may think that this makes his total breakdown in doubt comes in more meaningful, it does not. it’s like orpheus has backed himself into a corner emotion- and confidence-wise and it would be uncharacteristic to fall straight to rock bottom after being strong and self-assured for the whole show thus far.

the best part of broadway’s dreamy, distracted orpheus is that the audience gets a chance to watch his belief in himself grow gradually until his turning point songs (“wait for me,” “if it’s true”) cement his newfound confident characterization in their minds. they have come to root for the underdog and are attached to his character. but then, starting at “wait for me ii,” as hermes is warning orpheus about the dangers of his journey with eurydice to the surface world, the audience recognizes a note or two of panic within orpheus akin to those they saw in songs such as “chant” and “a gathering storm.”

without witnessing how far orpheus has come, the audience wouldn’t be as broken up about his eventual failure to get the love of his life back. one could even argue that eurydice was the one that salvaged his confidence (probably during that super sweet part in “all i’ve ever known”) and cultivated it to be what the audience sees in “wait for me,” aka the ultimate declaration of his love. this argument would make it even more painful when she dies and, consequently, all of orpheus’s belief in himself dies with her.

at its core, it’s playing with the audience’s favor. london!orpheus already has the audience’s attraction, but the ever-anxious broadway!orpheus gained the audience’s sympathy throughout his story. london!orpheus’s loss isn’t as great because we know he can function on his own. we’ve seen it in songs like the london version of “livin’ it up on top.”

broadway!orpheus has demonstrated that eurydice is the only thing keeping him together. he literally gets torn nearly to shreds once he enters the underworld and she is separated from him during “papers.” the driving point behind all of his actions is to right his wrongs and get eurydice back. so his loss is MONUMENTAL compared to assertive, flashy, london!orpheus’s because the audience knows that he genuinely cannot handle himself without her.

keeping that in mind, let’s continue into “doubt comes in.”

“doubt comes in,” the penultimate song in the musical, is an illustration of orpheus’s complete mental collapse. it is symbolic of the destruction of all the love and hope for the world that he previously held. let’s get into the details.

the evolution of the beginning of the song is as follows:

a. in the concept album, after a VERY lengthy (but necessary for setting the scene) two-minute intro, orpheus himself starts the song. the opening lyrics are “doubt comes in and strips the paint/ doubt comes in and turns the wine/ doubt comes in and leaves a trace of vinegar and turpentine.” these lyrics are sung with the same otherworldly disconnectedness in which justin vernon’s orpheus sings everything. he continues with “where are you?/ where are you, now?” which is self-explanatory.

b. in the 2016 cast album, the fates start off with the same lyrics. this is attributed to their characterization from early on in the musical: “they [are] always singin’ in the back of your mind.” they function as orpheus’s anxieties and (self-)doubts personified. damon comes in a little later with his trademark wavering tenor singing “doubt comes in and all falls silent/ it’s as though you weren’t there.” this is fleshing orpheus out a little more, voicing his main fear—that eurydice isn’t behind him, that this is all a trick.

c. reeve’s “doubt comes in” is the most dramatically changed. they changed it so that it would fit his character more, and they did so EXPERTLY. reeve’s broadway!orpheus very clearly suffers from severe anxiety. he’s sensitive and jumps at the slightest sound. the way he neglects his relationship with eurydice in favor of working on the song is not malicious, but charged with fear. it’s not intentional, he just has a habit of shutting everything out when working on something important. he’s never been in a relationship before, so he doesn’t consider that maybe, eurydice needs him as much as he needs her. but i digress. reeve’s “doubt comes in” starts with the repetition of his lalala melody—the exact same one that the audience has come to associate with him. he sings this to himself both for comfort and in the feeble hope that eurydice will hear it and know where to follow him (akin to theseus making a trail of ariadne’s thread to help him escape the minotaur’s labyrinth). in the beginning of the show (“come home with me”), orpheus describes the melody as something that “takes what’s broken and makes it whole,” and he’s using his lalalas as just that. while that is heartbreaking enough to begin with, reeve’s trembling, almost-faltering falsetto (reevesetto, if you will) adds a layer of suspense and desperation that damon and justin can only dream of.

the instrumental:

- every version of doubt comes in has a variation of the same instrumental. the haunting strings fill the theatre with a palpable fear, leaving even the people who don’t know the myth filled with a sense of dread.

- the truly striking part about the instrumental, though, is the drumbeat. it’s meant to symbolize orpheus’s heartbeat pounding in his ears, and has the same effect on the audience.

eurydice’s verses:

- eurydice’s first line in both the concept album’s “doubt comes in” and the 2016 one is “orpheus, you’re shivering/ is it cold or fear?” one could argue that these are the most tender lyrics exchanged between the lovers throughout the whole musical. it demonstrates eurydice’s intimate knowledge of her lover whether it’s justin’s determined orpheus, damon’s confident orpheus, or reeve’s fearful orpheus (that is, if they had included it in the broadway version). in some ways, it is a response to the orpheus’s line prior to it: “where are you now?”

justin and anaïs: these two have the energy of a couple that has faced the trials, come out victorious, and will do so again. anaïs’s steady, haunting voice does not serve as an accessory to justin’s layered vocals, her eurydice is as determined as justin’s orpheus. they know that they will be fine as long as everything goes according to plan (spoilers: it doesn’t). when anaïs sings “orpheus, you’re shivering/ is it cold or fear?” it’s like she’s checking up on him, just to be safe. it’s not so much fear in her voice as it is a simple question, as if her next words would be “just checking in. keep going, baby, we’re almost there.”

damon and nabiyah: their relationship is more tentative. it was fractured when eurydice sold her soul, and it’s just starting to be repaired. when nabiyah sings “orpheus, you’re shivering/ is it cold or fear?” there is more lingering anger in it than what anaïs offered. it’s seen in the way she hisses his name, remaining on the last consonant for longer than she used to. however, after a beat, once she realizes that he’s shaking, (implying that either 1. she’s following close enough to see him tremble, or 2. she recognizes the wavering in his voice as a red flag, which is adorable because that means she was intentionally looking for anything that would indicate that orpheus wasn’t feeling as confident as he usually did as a precaution because she knew how fast things could spiral from there) her tone softens. she melts and offers him words of reassurance “just keep singing/ the coldest night/ of the coldest year/ comes right before the spring.”

reeve and eva: i will always (always!) be mad that they omitted that line from the broadway production. it had so much potential considering that eva follows so far behind reeve throughout the song. in her bold, protective voice, the mere singing of orpheus’s name would have 100% knocked me to the ground. and reeve’s orpheus would be most likely to display such symptoms. even the audience member in the farthest seat from the stage could tell that reeve was shaking as he walked forward on the turntable, he just gave off that aura (it’s free real estate good acting). of course eurydice would notice that he was afraid.

lyric changes (in no particular order):

a. in the broadway version, the “where are you now” was changed to “where is she now,” reiterating the fact that eurydice is orpheus’s number one priority (and source of fear)

b. in place of the “you’re shivering” line, broadway!eurydice’s words are more encouraging. had this been earlier in the show, she wouldn’t have been so optimistic. orpheus replenished her hope in the world with “epic iii” and that’s what carried her through “promises,” “wait for me ii,” and, of course, “doubt comes in.” she says “orpheus, are you listening?/ i’m right here/ and i will be ‘til the end” for the first verse and “orpheus, you’re not alone/ i’m right behind you/ and i have been all along” for the second, right before he looks back.

c. orpheus’s inner (sung) monologue fleshes him out more than the concept album and the 2016 recording ever did with their respective orphei. one of the most prominent examples of this is the lyric “who am i to think that she would follow me into the cold and dark again?”

d. this is one of the many callbacks in “doubt comes in.” orpheus means that eurydice took a chance in following him into the “cold and dark,” i.e. poverty. the fact that she does it AGAIN exemplifies great character development. from the first time eurydice was introduced, she was characterized as self-sufficient and unwilling to rely on others. but now, after all she’s been through, she willingly puts her life in someone else’s hands—something she would have never, ever done had she not met orpheus. the fact that orpheus says “again” demonstrates his awareness (something else he has gained since the beginning of the show) that he already let eurydice down once and he does not want to again.

callbacks:

a. “the wind is changing...” this is sung by the fates in the chorus and is reminiscent of “a gathering storm.”

b. “la lala la lala la la...” this is orpheus’s musical motif. it symbolizes togetherness and hope. however, while all other times he is eventually joined by the ensemble, this is different. he is singing his melody into the dark and hoping against hope that someone will answer. no one does.

c. “i used to see the way the world could be/ but now the way it is is all i see...” orpheus is hope personified. he symbolizes all that is good, he never sees the bad in anyone and on the off chance that he does, he doesn’t fixated on it. but here, he’s rethinking his worldview. the darkness has seeped into his soul, rendering him terrified and doubtful.

d. “it’s you/ it’s me/ orpheus/ eurydice” this is a callback to “come home with me ii,” which sucks because it’s uhhhh painful.

conclusion: jo found dead in miami.

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