#dadmiral ironwood
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Nitpick November Day 5
Why does James get a round table when his arc is supposedly doesn’t trust anyone and is supposedly someone who unfairly wields his power.
A round table symbolically represents an equality of power as they have no head of the table, everyone at the table are equals. Unfortunately the rule of cool overshadow everything even if it contradicts what the show is trying to say.
All this to say, this is further proof also of just a lack of planning at all and that James's turn was very last minute and thrown in for no real good reason.
#rwde#Nitpick November#james ironwood#ironwood protection squad#pro james ironwood#pro ironwood#general ironwood#general dadmiral#dadmiral ironwood
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What Was Ironwood's plan?
For V7, Ironwood only had one plan. Turning Amity arena into a satellite, and telling Remnant about Salem's existence. The steps and contingencies for this Amity plan is outlined in episode 2, and V7's narrative generally deals with the Amity Plan's implementation, and its failure.
Ironwood's 'plan' toward the end of V7:
Is not so much a plan as it is a tactical decision. Ironwood finds himself in an un-ideal situation and makes a choice to act on the circumstances to get out of the un-ideal situation.
In Ironwood's case, a plan and a decision is not the same. Ironwood's diplomatic personality is a distinct vibe compared to his tactical mood.
Outside of a tactical situation, Ironwood is someone who can consider multiple perspectives and was able to work with other people to do what was best for Atlas. Trusting RWBY with the relic, and standing together with Robyn Hill, are both examples of Ironwood's flexibility outside of tactical situations.
Ironwood's 'Mettle' semblance emphasizes this distinction as it helps Ironwood hyper focus on a single difficult decision. However Ironwood's Amity plan was a fairly complex, multi-stage affair, that probably wouldn't be possible if Ironwood was hyper-focused.
This distinction is important as clarification. It indicates that Ironwood's plan from the start wasn't to abandon Mantle. Instead, Ironwood made a tactical decision to isolate Atlas in response to a threat Ironwood prioritized over the Grimm. It was not as if Ironwood had planned to abandon Mantle from the start.
However, if we are forced to only consider Ironwood's tactical decision at the end of V7, we need to understand the nature of the threat Ironwood is prioritizing responding to.
During the episode gravity, Ironwood's plan is:
"The timeline has changed. And so we must change accordingly. We are going to take our plan for Amity Tower and apply it to the city of Atlas. It was Oz's plan in a former life. But he didn't take it far enough. If we harness the power of the Staff and raise ourselves high into the atmosphere, the city's artificial climate will keep citizens and food supplies unharmed. Always out of reach of whatever Salem may try to send our way."
At this point, I will state that while I accept Ironwood's plan as stated in this line, I am going to read this line as divorced from the language the writers had Ironwood use for this line. In this part of the narrative, Ironwood is set up to be the antagonist to RWBY, and the dialogue reflects this. However sensible Ironwood's plan may be, the way it is presented is meant to make Ironwood an opponent, which is a bit of a bias that may influence the audience's perception of Ironwood's tactical decision.
At its most essential, Ironwood's plan is to isolate Atlas by lifting it to a height where the Grimm can't survive without the aid of Atlas's artificial climate technology.
The conflict here isn't that the plan won't work, its just that Ironwood won't give Mantle time to evacuate onto Atlas.
"Blake: But we're nowhere near finished evacuating everyone! You'd be leaving Mantle to die.
Ironwood: Yes… I would."
No one questioned the validity of Ironwood's plan, only the morality of Ironwood's execution of the plan, and that is something I may write about some other time.
But if we were forced by fndoomers (eh-heh) to question the validity of Ironwood's tactic, we have to approach the question on two fronts.
Firstly, what is the threat Ironwood is responding to? I believe that Ironwood wasn't focused on the Grimm, at this moment, but on the infiltrators who had breached his security. Just like what happened during the Fall of Beacon.
Infiltration was a threat that occupied Ironwood's mind over the course of V7. Now, I'm not going to say 'Ironwood was always worried about infiltrators and lifting Atlas into space was some endgame thing'. However, Ironwood was cautious about the possibility of infiltration, and the fact that his security was breached, as represented by the queen piece on his desk and Salem showing up in his office, pushed Ironwood to isolate Atlas.
Just as how quarantine is a measure against infection, the validity of Ironwood's tactic is made obvious when one considers that Ironwood is focused on trying to deal with the security breach, and not solely on the Grimm.
Secondly, RWBY's plan at the end of V7 was to hold ground and fight the Grimm. The episode doesn't exactly say how RWBY intended to fight the Grimm, but like Ironwood's response to his security breach, RWBY's 'plan' is a tactical decision in response to an un-ideal situation.
In fact, RWBY's tactic isn't unfeasible at this stage. No one right then really had a plan to beat Salem, but they needed to come up with a response to the circumstances unfolding around them. With support from Atlas, RWBY could feasibly hold Mantle for as long as it was needed for the plot to help RWBY beat Salem.
However, RWBY failed to grasp that Ironwood's focus was on the security breach. A security breach that RWBY may have contributed to, to an extent. The Grimm was not as big a threat as the infiltrators who may be operating in Atlas, and would likely exploit the chaos of combat to execute whatever plans they may have. (Namely, stealing the relics. Which was always Salem's priority, but that is a separate topic.)
Would isolating Atlas in space have dealt with the security breach? Very likely so. For example, Robyn Hill did not know what Ironwood's plan for Amity was until she was TOLD by Blake and Yang. Ironwood's security in Atlas was not fully breached as while Ironwood's office was infiltrated, the Staff was not taken until V8, and by playing his cards close to his chest Ironwood was able to trap Watts. Even RWBY was deceived when Ironwood lied that the Amity Tower was operational to bait Watts.
It seems likely, therefore, that isolating Atlas would be a more suitable response to the infiltrators. While fighting the Grimm would just spread everyone thin, and leave them vulnerable to a more damaging surprise attack from their blindspot. Like in Beacon, and a bit like in V8, to be fair.
In conclusion:
Ironwood's plan is always to raise Amity Tower and tell the world about Salem.
Ironwood's tactical decision is viable if you consider that; no one in the show questions the workability of launching Atlas into space, and that Ironwood's priority was dealing with the infiltrators, not the Grimm.
This is ultimately a primer of sorts for Ironwood fans so that they'd be aware of what Ironwood likely intended to do for V7. A little clarity, perhaps, amidst the heated misrepresentations and misunderstandings that surround Ironwood and his role in V7 and V8.
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Wait a minute.
...”dad”?
AGAIN?
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shaking like a damn chihuahua because i would have KILLED to get time for ren to actually bond with the ace ops and ironwood, to drive home how ren and ironwoods mentalities and drive mirror each other. i would have done ANYTHING to get depth for ren outside of nora and they had something really GOOD just SITTING there unused and unexplored WE COULD HAVE HAD DADMIRAL IRONWOOD AND REN HIS SON AND APPRENTICE AND IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT DRAMA AND EXPLORATION
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It’s always funny to me when I see people say that IW fans want him to have never made any mistakes, or wanted all of his mistakes excused, or wanted him to be perfect. Because... Speaking for myself, I can’t remember ever suggesting any sort of re-write where Ironwood is allowed to do whatever he wants and enacts the “go to space” plan that I on the record don’t like.
Off the top of my head, I’ve suggested:
A rewrite of James semblance and therefore the whole of the Atlas arc, where his semblance is explicitly active instead of passive, meaning he can turn it on at will, but can’t turn it off once he does due to the nature of the semblance, and knows that the risk of using his semblance is not being able to control himself and possibly doing horrible things. Then Team RWBY and co would have to work on their own during a Salem attack while also having to work against James, because James’ decision to turn on his semblance wound up leading him to being wholly unreasonable and preventing the option of them coming together to work on a viable solution. Team RWBY and co would also then listen to people like Winter, Qrow, and Ozpin who know James better and know that his actions under the influence of his semblance aren’t wholly his despite the choice to turn on the semblance at all being a bad one. And Team Kids would then work with them to save James despite things like him shooting Oscar and hacking Penny that still happen that they all have to grapple with, thus putting Team Kids into the role of the forgiving and mercy extending heroes of the story and James into the misguided person who screwed up a lot in his effort to help that needed to be saved from a situation he contributed to creating.
A rewrite where Team RWBY actually come up with a compromise and are the ones to convince James to go along with it, having James move Atlas to a place like Argus or - if they absolutely have to go here for the sake of the plot - Vacuo, while they stay behind as heroes defending Mantle from the Grimm and any backlash of Salem’s, and then doing the portal plan after Atlas is in a much more secure place with much better defenses to get the remaining people of Mantle transported. Thus making James someone who has to put his pride aside, drop his own plan, and listen to logic when it’s presented to him, while once again the heroes of the story are Team Kids, who come up with a good and viable plan and manage to be the ones to convince people to come together and also sacrifice to protect the people and prove themselves capable.
I’ve suggested that Glynda should come in and take over everything and actually be a compelling heroic figure since both James and Team RWBY aren’t being good and interesting heroes.
I’ve suggested that Ozpin and Qrow had to talk sense into James and convince him to compromise and learn to rely on others too.
I’ve suggested that the only act of villainy James should’ve done is shooting Oscar, which is something he can still come back from with enough work, but feels at least in character enough that it wasn’t off the rails and forced. I suggested this because that alone was more than enough to consider James incredibly faulty and needing removed from his position, and Oscar and Ozpin and all the others would be able to grapple with it without the audience and characters being so overloaded with the next ‘really evil thing’ so that none of it can ever get a chance to be addressed and given emotional weight.
I’ve suggested that post the Fall of Atlas, Qrow finds James in the wreckage and now James’ semblance is finally turned off, and he tells Qrow, Robyn, and the Ace Ops about it without shafting any of the responsibility, and Robyn uses her semblance to prove that he isn’t lying about his semblance. Then James has to grapple with everything that happened while he was under the affects of his semblance, and literally won’t let Qrow tell him that it wasn’t his fault due to his semblance being passive, because he knew that his semblance only really ‘takes over’ when he feels alone and backed into a corner and he insists that he should’ve let people like Qrow in more and that he shouldn’t have isolated himself so much.
Like, none of what I’ve suggested has ever been “Team RWBY should just let James do whatever he wants, and he should never be considered in the wrong, and he needs to be the hero of everything.” Everything has been “James is deeply flawed and should’ve done better and needs a reality check, but he doesn’t need to be launched into a comically overblown villain scumbag to get that and the way the show did it was OOC and dumb.”
I don’t get how people can look at posts that are like “What if Team RWBY actually did a bunch of heroic stuff and that resulted in James Shouldn’t-Go-To-Space Ironwood not being written into a horribly done villain for the sake of making it look good when the mains do nothing but drink tea,” and respond with being like “all IW fans want is for him to get to do whatever he wants and for the mains to do nothing.”
#rwde#anti rwby#rwby bashing#rwby hate#anti mkek#pro james ironwood#pro iw#this is specifically pro ironwood#pro ironwood#good james ironwood#james ironwood defense#dadmiral ironwood
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The Continuing Saga of Major Leaf
Mere months after foiling Cinder's plot to destroy Beacon, Colonel Leaf was in the Atlas Command Centre whilst Ironwood briefed the Ace Ops, and noticed peculiar signals coming in from the outer defence systems. Naturally he wasn't about to ignore a threat to his home, so he just so happened to wander onto the general's fire control button.
Shortly thereafter alarms began sounding, drawing Ironwood and the Ace Ops - along with much of the other staff - to battle stations. What they thought was an enemy attack turned out to be Atlas' own experimental bomb. General Ironwood was lambasted for allowing the colonel to perch on his secure console, however it was quickly discovered that the bomb had annihilated a large force of aerial Grimm including an enormous whale believed to function as Salem's mobile base.
For his quick thinking and excellent judgement, Leaf was awarded the Star of Mantle and promoted to Field Marshal. He tries not to lord his new rank over James, as that would be terribly rude.
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Do people still ship these two?
#rwby fanart#ironqrow#james ironwood fanart#qrow branwen#rwby#rwby qrow#general ironwood#general dadmiral
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Instagram introduced me to a new template and I had some fun with it lolZ.
#rwde#james ironwood#penny polendina#they deserved better#ironwood protection squad#pro james ironwood#pro ironwood#general ironwood#general dadmiral#dadmiral ironwood
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One of my wonderful friends in a discord I’m in shared a small clip from the volume 2 commentary I hadn’t seen before and it made me feel even worse about the whole Ironwood butchering situations.
The scene in question is when the writers are talking about is when Glynda spoke with James in volume two. The writers talked about how they liked how the scene showed how much James cared and wasn’t just a jerk for the sake of someone needing to be a jerk. A direct quote from the commentary sums it up well:
“Dude the guy really cares man. He’s seriously concerned about these people.”
The writers point blank say James cares. That their safety is important to him. In volume 2 they saw him and wrote him to be someone who cares and just is trying to do what is best. And instead of honoring that previous characterization and utilizing it properly they spat all over it and ruined it in a desperate attempt to try and make the main characters look better instead of putting in the work to make them the heroes. It’s depressing seeing how little the writers care for their characters and how quickly and easily they can toss it out because they had a new idea, previous characterization be damned.
I just cannot comprehend how writers who clearly knew that James was good and cared and was trying could so thoughtlessly throw that away. We deserve better then to time after time have disabled characters treated like this.
As my friend put it, the volume 2 commentary aged like curdled milk.
#rwde#james ironwood#ironwood protection squad#pro james ironwood#pro ironwood#general ironwood#general dadmiral#dadmiral ironwood
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It's funny (read obnoxiously frustrating) that RW/BY stans accuse me of wanting a "white man" to be the lead character because I criticize the writing of James, only for those same fans to turn around and start frothing at the mouth when we criticize Jaune getting a focus episode in Beyond insisiting he is a "main" character as well and deserves development and how he doesn't take away screen time from the mains. The hypocrisy is just insane and frustrating and I cannot fathom how they refuse to see just how hypocritical they are being.
#rwde#james ironwood#ironwood protection squad#pro james ironwood#pro ironwood#general ironwood#general dadmiral#dadmiral ironwood
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Just saw some bullshit posts in the James tag and I am annoyed. I know I’ve been a little MIA recently life has just been. A lot and it still is but I am annoyed so you know here we go.
The post in question was discussing how James “couldn’t find his heart” and that’s why he lost and it is just. So wrong because for most of the show he wore his heart on his sleeve. He cared and was compassionate and wanted to help people even if it meant being hated. The writers though threw a fit that people liked him and he got screwed over but in doing so they set up a story that has the main characters, people were supposed to be rooting for, breaking a man down completely, then hiding in a mansion crying about how hard it is while said broken down man who the writers decided is pure evil is trying his best to protect people from the Immortal witch hellbent on ending the world with an endless army of soulless man eating monsters on his doorstep and his soldiers suddenly having a major problem with things like evacuating civilians to the underground subway network that can be more easily guarded and protected because we have to establish that James is evil someone but doing a piss poor job of doing that because the mains are crying in a mansion refusing to help the very people they where willing to commit treason for while the “evil” general was defending those people and trying to minimize casualties.
#rwde#james ironwood#ironwood protection squad#pro james ironwood#pro ironwood#general ironwood#general dadmiral#dadmiral ironwood#I am tired#and angry#and have gotten like no sleep
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Previously I thought Arnold was pretty decent, he enjoyed the show and was willing to criticize RW/BY when appropriate. But I gotta say him not seeing anything wrong with saying a disabled man lost his humanity just really doesn’t sit right with me. Yeah he’s saying he was “burying his emotions” vs losing his arm being that but….he’s willfully ignoring the fact that CR/WBY said the moment he lost his humanity was when he lost his arm and it feels like Arnold on some level agrees. I can’t say for sure he does but….I don’t know leaning into what ableist shit CR/WBY has said about him just really has me concerned and upset. Anytime someone says James lost his humanity…well they tend to reveal themselves to be extremely ableist.
#rwde#james ironwood#ironwood protection squad#pro james ironwood#pro ironwood#general ironwood#general dadmiral#dadmiral ironwood#ramblings
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RT making a VYoutuber video with Ruby talking about being accepting of neurodivergent people as if they didn’t give a character a semblance that is being neurodivergent and said that made him evil. RT is a complete and utter joke.
#rwde#james ironwood#ironwood protection squad#pro james ironwood#pro ironwood#general ironwood#general dadmiral#dadmiral ironwood
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So I have been asked about the Near Pure Evil Ironwood article by a few people and it's full of ableism and lies but I wanted to highlight for now this one section.
And um....it's got some red flags for me for sure. In a show that has redeemed other murders no questions asked....why does James "Need" death? What other reason besides blatant sexism and ableism?
I hoped (in vein) other murders would be in the Near Pure Evil category as well....and well....
Nope. No Emerald or Mercury who helped bring down TWO kingdoms and killed a lot of people nor Tyrian or Hazel who slaughtered an entire kingdoms hunters. I thought maybe their was a pure evil category and hoped once again in vein they would be their.
The able bodied and able bodied female mass murders somehow are not in this category despite killing more people then some of the other people on either list. James is declared too far gone to be saved and they even pretend they are his judge, jury and executioner and call for his death which is just. Yikes.
I FINALLY found Salem by straight up googling what the hell her alignment was and thankfully she's in Ultimate Evil (and is the only one their from what I can find), however their is no discussion of her redeemability or any declarations she deserves death and her page is....tiny. It feels like it is trying to skim past her bad stuff to try and pretend they can change her morality to be better even though she is far worse then anyone in the show.
Meanwhile doing the same search for Emerald leads to no results at all which is extremely suspicious and enraging all at once. I did a quick read of the other wikis and....James's is the ONLY one that declares he is irredeemable and deserves death and it's....distressing honestly. The tripple amputee with PTSD is the only one who gets the death sentence. The woman who abused and killed people doesn't have any sort of moral declarations on her page like this. It screams of a hatred of people with PTDS and its frankly disgusting. I am appalled such ableism was allowed like this.
#RWDE#I only feel rage#james ironwood#ironwood protection squad#pro james ironwood#pro ironwood#general ironwood#general dadmiral#dadmiral ironwood#I am to angry to word properly right now#I may have more thoughts but#this is just#disgusting
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The fndm: we’re totally not ableist that’s something the actually super ableist rwde made up about us to make us look bad.
Also the fndm: and like I’m really annoyed they didn’t lean more into the industrial vibe James had to really show how he’s nothing more then a machine now because he lost his heart and humanity when he lost his other arm. No it’s not ableist to say that he chose to do this to himself. What do you mean he’s a fictional character who had no say whatsoever what CR/WBY did to him and the writers relied on extremely ableist and harmful tropes?
#rwde#james ironwood#ironwood protection squad#pro james ironwood#pro ironwood#general ironwood#general dadmiral#dadmiral ironwood#I am so tired
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I’m just I’m so tired. Arryn keep your hands off of James you clearly do not understand his character nor do you give a shit about ptsd or mental illness’s. He’s never had any fascist tendencies much less starting from a volume he wasn’t even in. He doesn’t shut down criticism of him, the man that was arrested at the beginning of volume 7 was arrested for throwing a brick at a military ship and he was released the same night.
Fans should be concerned about CRWBY’s fundamental lack of understanding of these characters but instead they’re eating this shit up.
#rwde#james ironwood#ironwood protection squad#pro james ironwood#pro ironwood#general ironwood#general dadmiral#dadmiral ironwood
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