Need more female characters to brutally kill their abusers and then laugh about it cause otherwise we get people using them as self-inserts, romanticizing their abuse, and shipping them with their abusers

Someone has gone ahead and dm-ed me with a lengthy explanation for the Guapoverse stuff, so here is the explanation from somebody active in the Twitter community.

Hopefully, with this full explanation, we can all stop fighting and being nasty to each other. Is this really the way we want to present ourselves? We're all really cool people, we shouldn't be tearing each other apart over something as silly as tags.

hey, just wanted to let you know the context of the whole guapoverse in twitter and why people are changing the tags and the ! for the cubitos, since I think the criticism from both sides is just basically miscommunication. the vast majority of the cellbit community in twt (and a lot of people from roier's) are not just disappointed or boycotting the qsmp, they just straight up dropped it (like, the most common opinions I saw regarding the future of the qsmp from both of those communities are either watching only cellbit and roier if they logged in to just not watching even them if they decided to do so). There are a lot of reasons as to why but people have lost the hope they had in the server and in quackity, especially after the way he treated the xenophobia and admins situation. people still love the characters and the story they constructed and think everything cellbit and roier put they effort in is bigger than the platform and "world" they created it. the thing with not using the q anymore and changing the tag is because the project, as much as it brought joy to us in the beggining, caused more pain and harm than good in the brazilian community, both for the viewers and admins affected, so we just really don't want to have a reminder staring at us everytime we want to talk or write about these characters we care so much for. BUT!! I totally agree that the ! system for the cubitos is super confusing, so as a chronically online person in the twt fandom I'll try to explain the system I've seen people using (is not perfect and not as consistent, it's still all very new, but I'll try to explain the patterns I've notice, also it's mostly applied to the guapoduo twt fandom I can't explain the use from other viewers.) people either use g! or just the ! to refer to the qsmp characters, some still use the q! but it's mostly those two. f! from the fuga impossível characters (like f!cell), the c! from chafaland (like c!roier) and other variations from the twt aus (like the great pretender au is gp!cellbit). so it's mostly it I feel like as someone who has not seen the disappointment in real time and seen people coming up with solutions to still enjoy the characters and their story without having to be reminded of the horrible time the community had these last few months, is very valid that you had your reservations to the many changes the fandom had, and I guess it could look like people are just avoiding the server and trying to erase everything related to it but I hope I could give you more context people are still posting under the q!, people are still posting stuff in the qsmp tag, they aren't going after people that are still using it, it's just to distance themselves from it. the whole thing is mostly a twitter thing, I think not even 30 fanfics changed the tags (last I checked), is just people there are the most affected from the xenophobia and wanted to distance themselves (again, in twitter) of the qsmp and quackity fandom. nobody wanted the whole fandom to adapt, nobody wanted a revolution in guapoduo/spiderbit media consumption, it was just a way to distance themselves on twitter. it was just this.

It's a pretty long explanation, but I think it gets everything across that needs to be said.

Nobody needs to be a dick to each other. We need to understand the Guapoverse Guys, but they also need to understand us. We've got some cultural differences between Tumblr and Twitter, and now there are more differences between Guapoverse and Everyone Else.

thank you so much for your reply <3 i think grief is a good word to describe what i'm feeling. it might sound silly to some but the book has been one of my favourites since 2019 and the 'what could have been?' aspect of the movie's promotion devastates me bc the crew and the fans deserved more. i think im also a bit terrified of ppl moving on from rwrb to nick's other projects meanwhile i can't (and don't want to) do it, ugh it's just a mess of weird feelings and sadness and longing for something we've never had. not to mention how some people already talk about his new projects being upgrades from rwrb. that hurts me on so many levels bc henry is a complex and beautiful character, rwrb is a wonderful story and i genuinely think that even with all the changes they created something amazing.

Glad I could help <3

It's not silly at all. I'm in a similar position: if you've followed my blog you might have seen this but long story short my irl life is a bit fucked up and I was really, really depressed. (still kinda am) July and August, waiting and watching RWRB release became the happiest I've been since January 2022, and in the following months RWRB and the fandom (well, and my sister) nearly became my sole reason for hanging on. So trust me when I say I get the feeling.

I understand your fear, and I'd be lying if I say I wasn't afraid that the rwrb tag will be full of George instead of Alex and Henry, but please remember that liking something new doesn't necessarily always lead to leaving the previous fandom: I know for a fact that me and a couple of my mutuals are going do both. We're gonna be happy to watch M&G (personally not interested in the idea of you but the same applies) but we're still going to make RWRB content. M&G will be a great show but it won't have nearly the same emotional weight to me as RWRB. It's been five months, so those of us who hang around and are active are active for a good reason.

As for the comments about "upgrade", that's ridiculous and a very surface-level assessment. One of my best friends is studying to become an actress and we talk about acting often. Here's the thing: there isn't a thing called "easy" acting. Every genre of acting has its own challenges: for comedy many times you need to sacrifice your personal dignity; Sci-fi blockbusters you need to interact with nothing and make it look believable; even for things like kid shows you need to be hyperactive so the kids can focus and find it entertaining, which can be so draining. M&G is a historical thriller, TIOY is a romance, and RWRB is a rom-com. These are three different film genres, and each set out to achieve different things. For example in terms of relationships: TIOY needs to make the romance believable, RWRB needs to make the romance believe, funny, and be a fair representation of a queer relationship, and for M&G if history serves there's no "true love" relationship at all. You're right: Henry's a complex and beautiful character, and Nick clearly put all his heart into him. But you cannot take Henry's layers of grief, love, fear, and self-esteem, and say it is lesser than Geroge's cold ambition. Funnily enough, while Henry is so careful with his power as the prince, George rose to the same if not a higher level of power and abused it so badly, that it caused his assassination and downfall. A well-written character is ultimately, a human being, and there isn't truly a human being who's "easy to be". So don't listen to those haters.

I'm all ears if you still want to talk <3

Can I hear your essay on purity culture in fandoms? only if you want ofc

Sure! It's primarily a mental essay cause I never write anything down but I'll do brief summary that will end up not so brief!

Before I get into it I just want to define a couple things so I don't accidentally say something I don't mean to say. When I talk about "problematic" works of fiction, I'm not talking about harmful rhetoric that an author consciously or subconsciously puts into their work (things like perpetuating stereotypes). What I am talking about is when the work is about "problematic" things like exploring an abusive or manipulative relationship, tapping into the darker side of human nature, and exploring similar concepts. Secondly the "purity culture" I'm going to be talking about is moral correctness and moral superiority.

In the last couple years, I've noticed a trend in many fandom spaces where people will apply real life morals into fiction as a "gotcha" card. It's not a very vocal part of every fandom, but there are some fandoms where it's reinforced and often encouraged. People will say that because a story features x morally reprehensible thing it is wrong and therefore you shouldn't like it. From my experience it manifests in hatred of characters or ships. A really good example of this is all the c!Dream discourse. Because of their dislike for him, people will try to gain moral superiority over "c!Dream apologists" by saying that they condone "abuse" in real life. Which is extremely false.

Another way this "purity culture" manifests is through what I call "fic policing" (it doesn't happen with just fanfic, it happens with published work too). People write problematic things all the time, it's one of the best things about fiction. Authors can explore some really fucked up things about humanity through writing and tell stories about some pretty "problematic" stuff. Many of my stories (both fanfiction and not) feature insanely fucked up people doing even more insanely fucked up things, because I find those kinds of things really interesting. It doesn't mean I would do or even condone any of the things I write about in real life. I mean, there's an entire genre dedicated to horror for reason (and there's a reason it's so popular). However, not everyone is a fan of such works and people will try to "call out" writers for exploring those dark themes, claiming that it is so wrong and fucked up that they wrote such a thing (as if the writer had actually done those things in real life). Sure, there are some exceptions for what someone should and shouldn't post/publish, but if it is entirely fictional (as in not including any real people), there really shouldn't be an issue. If its a work of fanfiction that is properly tagged, there is no reason to cause a scene. If you don't like it, move on. If it's published media, see if you can find trigger warnings ahead of time or when you come across something you don't like, move on with your life. It get even worse because sometimes when the morally reprehensible part of a story is CONDEMNED IN THE STORY, people will still call it out for being "problematic."

Some people will feel threatened that someone likes a certain character, piece of media, ship, hell even a person and automatically try to gain moral superiority to feel validated in their dislike and to shit on others for liking that thing. People can't just dislike something for no reason so they try and twist it into being something "immoral" so that they feel just in their hatred. I mean, think of all the insane criticism Dream gets. Some people decided they didn't like him and from then on tried everything they could to show how awful of a person he is, going so far as to make up complete lies and twist the truth so far its hardly even recognizable. (Fandom purity culture and twitter "wokeness" kind of go hand in hand).

tl;dr: People need to feel validated in their hatred of something so they will do anything they can to demonize it and the people who like it.

I'm gonna leave off on this note: If you think you are a better person for disliking something and are constantly jumping through hoops to prove why everyone who likes said thing are morally wrong, you may want to take a step back and think about whether it's really worth the effort.

Can you explain to me what it is about Tyrion you like? I don't mean this in a antagonistic way or anything. As a little person I feel like I get told so often I should like him but I just can't get into him, if anything I find myself more disliking him than anything else and I'm not sure why, maybe im misunderstanding him. I feel like he has a very complex interesting story it just doesn't appeal to me and I really wish it did.

Well, first off I just want to say that you have no obligation to like Tyrion just because you share his disability, and I think it’s insulting for people to tell you that. Liking a character is a personal choice and of course not all people are the same and it’s up to you what you find clicks with you and your experience.

I’m not sure if you’re asking why I like Tyrion in general or why I like him as a disabled person, but I will answer both. I identify a lot with Tyrion’s disability narrative, but of course that doesn’t mean that everyone has to. The disabled are not a monolith.

At the same time I get angry when I sometimes see people in fandom who have put themselves out as spokespersons for the disabled declaring that Tyrion is not good representation because they personally don’t like him, or because he has some really negative flaws. Like, it works both ways and some people identify with Tyrion’s disability narrative while other people don’t, but nobody should be saying that no one should find him to be good representation, and a number of disabled people and disability advocates and media critics, including Peter Dinklage who plays him on the show, have spoken out about why they do find Tyrion to be very good representation. If a character clicks with that many disabled people then I think he is good representation, even if some people don’t identify with him personally. Here’s a post from a person with dwarfism on why they find Tyrion appealing, if you are interested. Again, I can’t tell you what to think (and I don’t want to do that) especially as I am not a little person, but you might find that article helpful.

Also, note that I am using the word “disability” a lot to describe Tyrion’s experience, although I know that some little people do not identify as disabled. I am using the word because I find that I identify with Tyrion because of my own experience, as someone with a visual disability, so I use that word.

Although I don’t talk about my personal experience a lot because for a long time I didn’t identify myself as disabled. I still feel iffy about using that word to describe me, because I feel sometimes that I am not disabled enough, and I’ve realized that this has caused problems in my life, such as when I take the bus (I cannot drive a car) I used to feel bad about sitting in the seats reserved for the disabled at the front of the bus, and would sit in the back instead and consequently miss my stop over and over again. So I’ve gradually come to the realization that it’s okay for me to identify as disabled.

And I think that’s part of why I identify with Tyrion, in fact, because like Tyrion I have a complicated relationship with myself and my disability. I like that Tyrion tries to own who he is but I also like that he struggles with that. I specifically identify with Tyrion’s struggle to be taken seriously. My disability impacts my mobility and being able to drive a car is a symbol of adulthood that is out of reach for me. Similarly, Tyrion cannot ride a horse (the medieval fantasy equivalent of driving a car) without special aid. Reading Tyrion makes me feel better about riding the bus because I feel that it is okay for me to find other alternatives to mobilize myself and that it doesn’t make me less of a person. Tyrion tries to be cavalier about the way that others treat him but experiences intense feelings of anger and shame, and sometimes lashes out at others in very unpleasant ways. I love that about him. He feels very real to me. I also like that he has feelings of compassion which he longs to express but often feels unable to, because no one will accept them. He’s smart but not a supercrip, because he’s not always right and although he thinks of himself as very practical he is often ruled by his emotions.

Another reason I love Tyrion is a reason I love a lot of the characters in asoiaf. I’m drawn to characters who are isolated (which I’ve recently come to realize has a lot to do with my disability experience) and Tyrion is very isolated from others and has trouble forming meaningful relationships.

I also love characters who are walking contradictions. I can’t help it. I find that this is the reason I both read and write (and teach) fiction. Like GRRM and Faulkner before him, I agree that “the only story worth telling is the human heart in conflict with itself”. Although this can apply to many characters in the text, I feel that Tyrion exemplifies it best. Is he a villain or is he a hero? We don’t really know, he just is. I think one of the main central conflicts in Tyrion’s story is a desire to be a good person. One of the things I teach when I teach creative writing is that a story should ask the question “what makes a good life?” and I think Tyrion’s story does ask that. A good story doesn’t necessarily provide an answer, and I’m not sure if Tyrion’s story will, but it gets us thinking about it and that’s the point.

Tyrion is also a great deconstruction of specific stereotypes applied to little people. Little people in fantasy are often jesters, or if it’s postmodern fantasy then they are jesters who are secretly wise mentors. Tyrion isn’t just a subversion of this, he deconstructs the trope entirely because he is funny and he does give wise advise and he very much has elements of the trickster archetype, but he’s so much more than those things. Tyrion also is a deconstruction of the “lustful dwarf” trope which is, I think, more applied to men with dwarfism. Tyrion is lustful, but he also longs for a romantic connection and has both perpetuated and been a victim of sexual abuse. On the other end of the spectrum, Tyrion is very much a deconstruction of the idea that people like him should be completely sexless - specifically little people who often get treated like children in media and real life. This is specifically called out in the scene in ASOS where Tywin says that he forgets that Tyrion has sexual needs because he thinks of him as a child.

I just find Tyrion really fascinating both from a disability perspective, a personal perspective, and a literary perspective. I think he’s one of the most finely crafted characters in modern literature. You can peruse my Tyrion Lannister tag if you’re interested in hearing more about why I love Tyrion.