#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Donuts and milk
lol I was reminded of this the other day when looking for that clip of Adachi being a pathetic teenaged girl...
When the gang goes to Shiroku to shop for supplies before waiting for the kidnapper to show up and abduct Rise, Chie says she's going to buy anpan and milk. Anpan is a bun filled with sweet red bean paste. In English, this was donuts and milk.
youtube
Seeing "a Japanese food translated as donuts" might trigger an ancient buried memory related to 4kids Pokemon for some of us lmao. But for this part in Persona 4, this seems fitting because of why Chie is bringing up anpan and milk to begin with.
Yosuke follows her up by mentioning that combo is fitting if you're on a stakeout, because anpan and milk is their stereotype for what detectives eat when they're on a stakeout. Meanwhile, we stereotype cops as eating donuts, hence why Chie's line became donuts.
(This is now a Persona 4 food blog.)
#persona 4#chie satonaka#yosuke hanamura#jelly donuts#Youtube#日本語ヘタです#localization#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Quick Thoughts on Lazy Writing, aka "Look Look, We Got You An Asian Woman LI, Now Give Us A Medal Just For Making Her Exist".
• Yep. This is not going to be about Chapter 15. I don't think Chapter 15 is worth a fucking QT post. It does not deserve it, this book doesn't deserve it, this team does not deserve it, I'm not giving it one.
• This chapter is basically part-resolution-of-Hana's-arc and part-sex-scene-on-the-balcony. I'll probably write about the balcony scene when I resume writing essays. But as of now...I'm going to write about Hana. At least that way she'll get the focus that she deserves, and that PB is so unwilling to give her 😡 So if you think I've whined too much about Hana Lee, my dear readers, let me tell you this: you ain't seen nothing yet. Leave now while you can if Hana-rants aren't your thing.
• Basically - since I'm not going to do the usual chapter walkthrough this QT - I'll summarize what happens. Xinghai and Lorelai insist on taking away Hana's belongings despite protests from Hana and the MC. There is a diamond option to help her retrieve her black embroidered cheongsam, which is more precious to her than anything else because it holds memories of her grandmother. Afterwards you get ready for the lantern festival and spend majority of the chapter trying to get Hana's parents to give a positive statement, and eventually figure out that Rashad is the key to this. You convince him to accept Xinghai's proposal, Lorelai and Xinghai openly support you and make a half assed apology to Hana, everyone is happy and telling each other their wishes, and the diamond option to scandalize the entire country (...or not. You can go to the bedroom instead lol) with your LI pops up. It ends with Maxwell getting excited about hosting your bachelorette in Las Vegas (somehow I have a feeling the TRR writers never read RoE Book 2).
• Yep that's it. There really is nothing worth writing about in this chapter, because they didn't bother to nail the most important part of it: and that is Hana's story.
• That's all I'm going to talk about today. Hana.
• Hana. Hana. Hana Hana. Hana Hana Hana. HanaHanaHanaHanaHanaHana.
• Did I mention Hana?
• Title: Light the Night. Which is straightforward, it's a festival dedicated to lanterns and takes place around nighttime. Though IMO the title should really have been: The Number of Fucks Given About Hana Lee By Her Own Writers Is Equal To The Number of Times Anton Severus Makes An Appearance In This Chapter
•
...I just had to slip that in somewhere since there is no way I can ever make this statement unironically IRL 😢
•
This is the first of many statements Hana's parents make about her inability to survive on her own. She is a "delicate flower" that requires watchful care and tending, and the MC is the "weed", the kind that doesn't fit in - but also the kind that is tough and resilient and can survive all manners of things, that depends on itself. Lorelai's argument is that without them, or without a partner that meets their approval, Hana will have very few skills to take care of herself (whose fault is that, I wonder!)
This is something Hana is aware of, and has been highlighting on the few occasions that the people who right her remember that she is meant to be a well-rounded character (which isn't often). She has spoken about not knowing how to live without her parents (Book 2 Chapter 2), how she doesn't know if her skills will help her in the real world (Book 3 Chapter 5), how she isn't even aware who she is (Book 2 Chapter 9). Her character arc was meant to be about learning what her parents neglected to teach her in their mad rush to make her the perfect aristocratic wife, the perfect hostess. Except that, unfortunately, these narrative threads were picked up in fits and starts: implied at and alluded to but never satisfactorily explored.
I will come back to punch holes in Lorelai's arguments (echoed by Xinghai at the festival) later.
•
On the surface this looks like a nice story? It harks back to a dress we've seen before (the black-red-gold cheongsam she'd shown us in Shanghai, alongside a dress she'd made specially for us. She also wears it when she proposes to the MC in case she's the one you declare your love to), something we know she made and is important to her, and tells us more about her youth (the dress seems to have been made when she was "of age", since those measurements perfectly fit an adult Hana) and her family in China. But I have two major problems with this:
1. How many chapters has it been since this book started? 19 chapters in Book 1, another 19 in Book 2 and 15 at present. That makes it 53 whooping chapters.
FIFTY THREE CHAPTERS AND WE LEARN ABOUT HANA'S GRANDMOTHER, SOMEONE SHE WAS IMMENSELY CLOSE TO, ONLY NOW??? IT TAKES US FIFTY THREE FUCKING CHAPTERS FOR US TO GAIN ACCESS TO THIS PIECE OF PERSONAL HISTORY????
2. The second major problem lies in the scene itself. I'll get there.
• So I'll start first with the main components of this scene:
1. The MC and Hana choose an accomplice (Maxwell/Olivia).
2. The accomplice distracts Lorelai
3. Hana distracts an attendant while the MC grabs the dress, but not before almost getting caught by another attendant. They make a run for it and find themselves in a secret hideout.
4. Hana changes into her dress and is happy. If you're marrying her, this is where she and the MC kiss. But besides this there's very little distinction between how this scene plays out if you're her friend versus if you're her fiancée.
•
The Olivia option of the Lorelai-distracting-segment is perhaps my favourite moment in the scene and the only reason it could be even remotely worth playing. Not just for Olivia herself, but also as a reminder that while Hana and Olivia have made their peace with each other and know each others' strengths, they will never actually like each other...and that's okay. Olivia reverts to her bitchy Book 1 persona, hinting at Hana's failed engagement with Lord Peter and casting her in a less favourable light, and I especially love that Hana lets her emotions take over here. There's always been a palpable tension between the two (and often Olivia is the one more open about it, while Hana usually prefers to display diplomacy instead) and this is one of the few times Hana gets to be anything other than neutral or cheerful. She doesn't like what Olivia said, and she makes it clear at least to the MC.
•
Hana Lee, Queen of Awkward Flirting xD xD
• We take a turn that almost lands us in a room where Lorelai is still talking, narrowly escape the attendant chasing us to finally find ourselves in a secret passage with a hole in the wall, from where you could easy watch the sunset.
• Hana changes into her cheongsam.
Very pretty. Lots of flowers and butterflies form the patterning of this dress.
• Now this was the point where I thought we'd learn more about this dress. Or about her grandmother. Or about her life in Shanghai. SOMETHING.
• But no. We get a brief conversation about how hurt Hana is that her mother is intent on disowning her, and the MC convincing her she is stronger than she believes herself to be. Which is nice, but it sounds like a repeat of what's been said before.
• Do you remember that one diamond scene option in The Sophomore where the MC get to to grab Natasha's Loose Pins posters so she can't sabotage Kaitlyn's band? I liked it, it was funny and I liked the thrill of the chase in that scene. And that was exactly the focus of that scene: the chase. Kaitlyn had other scenes focusing on her equation with the band, her trust issues post Gutter Kittens and how she has learned from her mistakes since TF Book 3. It made sense to have a funny, silly scene that revolved not around Kaitlyn but around that chase instead.
Well, that's exactly the focus of this scene. The chase! The fact that time was running out! The wild rush to grab that cheongsam before Hana's mother could catch her! That's exactly all this scene was meant to be and that's exactly how it was written.
But there's a huge difference here. Hana is not Kaitlyn. Kaitlyn's arc about her sexuality and about her coming out was highlighted in detail. She was given subplots that made it clear how complicated a journey it was for her and she has a canon sexuality openly addressed in the books. Hell, TF Book 2 has her scream "I'M GAY" in a crowded bar to her childhood friend Arjun!
Kaitlyn is allowed to be a well-rounded, imperfect person, who trusts the wrong people and suffers the consequences in such a way that it reflects on her self-esteem in the next few books. She had plenty of scenes exploring all these aspects of her journey, so a funny, light scene like this one works in the larger context of Kaitlyn's story.
But this scene - for Hana - was supposed to be the culmination of her entire journey. You hear that? Her entire journey! It was supposed to be the point where she made it clear to both her parents that this was who she was and this was the life she preferred to live, take it or leave it. This scene was supposed to be a watershed moment for her, and this is what it comes to? A scene where Hana isn't even the focus? Where her story, her journey isn't even the focus??
• The grandmother story irks me to no end for another reason too. It was clearly not meant to be development for Hana. If it were, there would have been more in the diamond scene itself. They would have spent the secret hideout scene on a thorough exploration of Hana and her childhood, her growing up, what this woman was like. If it really were meant as development, we wouldn't be hearing about this grandmother now at the very end.
No. That little tidbit about Hana's grandmother was bait. It's fairly obvious that most of us who love her character are literally starved for information about her compared to, say, Drake and Liam (Maxwell isn't exactly treated all that well either). So they push in this little story so that her fans can buy this scene that isn't even worth two diamonds, forget fifteen.
• So now we've got Hana's cheongsam, that she can now wear to the lantern festival (for a girl who knows how to sew, and sew beautifully, Hana has remarkably few outfits of her own) it's time for us to get ready. In some glittery beaded blue number.
Is it just me or does the art team for TRR have a thing for armbands?
• So the main problem now is to reach out to, and convince, Hana's parents before they make their final statements to the press.
• Penelope and Kiara love the festival, Olivia and Madeleine don't altogether hate it. Yay?
• Kiara is the only one among the court ladies whose wishes we hear, which is a nice touch considering she's always been the one given the least attention in the books. The lantern rituals are apparently both about letting go of things that are holding you back in your life, and making wishes for the future. Kiara is letting go of her doubts and her fears for this tour, and wishing speed in her learning of Icelandic. Hakim uses his wish to speak about work, and he's not the only one. Rashad needs help with getting a deal finalized for the Sloan firm too!
• We now move to Xinghai and try to convince him, but it only leads to a realization that Hana's parents still want to secure a match for her with the two men she'd firmly stated she had no interest in. This is nothing new, but this argument of Xinghai - also something Lorelai stated earlier - is something I want to expand on:
1. I'm incredibly familiar with the first argument. I've had a largely restrictive childhood under a very traditional Indian family dynamic (your parents are close to God so obey them), and didn't have much opportunity to mingle outside my home. As I grew older my father began to get increasingly frustrated that I was "glued to your mother's dupatta" (scarf) and not independent enough. And he said this genuinely, unironically. It never occurred to either of my parents that they'd created an environment that made it hard for me to actually make my own decisions without feeling like I was doing something wrong.
Xinghai and Lorelai are right to some extent: I mean, Hana herself on certain occasions has questioned how useful her skills are in the real world, in a Cordonia that needs her to be decisive and firm. But that didn't happen in a vacuum, did it? Both of them leave out (or in fact, don't even recognize) a significant truth about Hana's lack of independence - they were, to a large extent, responsible for it. She is dependent because they brought her up that way. Because they never gave her space to work things out on her own and the one time she demanded that space, they viewed it as an insult rather than actually give her that chance. The moment you place that much pressure and those many restrictions on a child, you've lost the right to talk about her lack of independence as if it's something that is a part of her. It isn't. You put her in that position. Tbh, it irks me that Xinghai and Lorelai genuinely don't see the irony in their statements.
What Hana had was an immensely restrictive childhood, and perhaps if she didn't have the friend circle in Cordonia that she did, she would have struggled. Her kind of upbringing doesn't allow for real world skills (something Lorelai views as a negative when she says "people wouldn't have to be resilient if they stayed in their place to begin with") and she's never been allowed to view even her own personal feelings as a good thing! This goes beyond "taking responsibility for one's past and future". She's never been allowed a responsibility that doesn't involve her being forced into matches she has had zero interest in, and that seem to have higher benefits for her family than they do for her.
All in all, Hana's skills do not fully equip her for independent living, sure, but they both overlook their own role in her eventual inability to adjust if it comes to that.
2. What Xinghai says about trust going both ways. He misses the fact that she already did. She trusted them completely and did everything they told her to, often to her own detriment. The engagement to Lord Peter? That's the perfect example of this. It wasn't her fault that the match broke: she followed through with it no matter how uninterested she was in the man, to the point where when he asked her if she really loved him she couldn't open up and tell him how she really felt. Yet she was viewed as responsible for the breaking of that match - for doing everything she was expected to do - and left Shanghai viewing herself as a failure.
She's spent years trusting them, spent most of her young life perceiving their worldview as correct and wanting to do right by them! She's gone above and beyond when it comes to trusting and respecting her parents' judgement! Even at the cost of her own happiness! There is only so much any human being can take before they realize how messed up this manner of bringing a child up is.
But guess what. None of this is actually addressed properly in the book, because we never get a real insight into Hana's upbringing and the effect it has had on his with any kind of nuance.
• After Xinghai and Lorelai tell us that what they're planning for Hana is for her own good, and imply that either Neville (the man is still around, yes) or Rashad can prove to be advantageous for her and moreso for their family and business. Hana and the MC briefly agonize over this, and if the MC correctly names the firm that Rashad wants as a client (IDK what happens if she doesn't - TBH I was sleepwalking through this chapter and wasn't interested in seeing what the alternative was this time. Sorry guys) they work on convincing him to work with Xinghai in exchange for introducing him to a contact in this firm.
• The MC first gets to choose what she will let go of, then chooses what she wishes for. Once this is done, Hana's mother makes a statement in support of the MC, having spoken to Rashad and suddenly realizing that their daughter can thrive without their handholding. Emotional family reunion. Everyone is happy. Lorelai apologizes and Xinghai reveals his wish for Hana to be happy. The end.
• There you go guys. This is how it ends. That's the conclusion of Hana's entire character arc. The culmination of a journey that lasted three whole books involving Hana fighting to create an identity for herself...ends in her parents realizing she's useful on her own after all. After all this time, after so much conflict and stress and confusion...it all boils down to her parents still seeing her more as an asset than as a daughter.
Awesome message, TRR, awesome message. Now give me a moment while I vomit.
Allow me to elaborate. She is still worthy only if she facilitates Xinghai's deal with Rashad's firm, if they manage to gain an advantage even minus her alliance with a titled man. There is no real change. Not in Hana, not in her parents, not in their relationship. This conclusion is superficial and is a horrifically weak way to end Hana's overall arc.
• To sum up the rest of the chapter before I give you a broader insight into why this chapter pissed me off so much...there is an LI diamond scene and then Maxwell announces a bachelorette party in Vegas (why aren't they doing that in Cordonia? Cordonia clearly has a gambling hub and a pretty famous casino if one were to recall RoE).
• The LI diamond scenes are quite sweet - all the LIs get to speak about family and having children - and there is a lot of sweetness and tenderness in all of them from what I've seen of the screenshots. Had this chapter not ruined this book for me, I would probably appreciate it better? In any case, I might do a four-LI-breakdown-essay of this scene once I feel up to it. I'll be doing the same for the LI scenes at the Capitol, Lythikos and Valtoria. Eventually.
• The Hana-specific scenes in this book, however...I think I'll pass. We have had just three so far: Polo Playing at Portavira, Snow Angel Making at Lythikos and Hana's Cheongsam here at Valtoria. None of these scenes possess any depth or nuance, none of them say much about Hana that hasn't already been said, each of them are pale echoes of the scenes we have seen Liam and Drake getting. If you're going to give an LI three individual scenes in 15 chapters of a book, those scenes had better be excellent, detailed and nuanced in their characterization. If you're not ready to give us that...then what's the point, team TRR??? You could have either given us more scenes with tiny but substantial tidbits, or less scenes but with bigger opportunities to know her better. But something tells me that you don't care enough about this character or your LGBTQ audience enough to actually do the work.
• And this problem isn't restricted to Book 3 alone. Hana has been subject to lazy writing since Book 2. The groundwork laid for Hana in Book 1 was really good...but that's all it was: basic groundwork. No Hana stan should have to pat you in the back for laying a good foundation for that character, not when the other two established LIs had just as solid a foundation PLUS excellent buildup in subsequent books. And no Hana stan should have to thank you now for throwing only scraps their way.
• Hana's foundations in Book 1 lay in two areas: her sexuality and her complicated relationship with her family. Hers was the classic coming-out-of-the-closet story, and it was heavily implied that she was never really given the space to view herself as anything but "straight", that she'd been pressurized into pursuing men, that the experience of falling for the MC itself was immensely confusing for her (in her first confession scene, she couldn't even articulate her feelings - that was how confusing this experience was).
But her sexuality is hardly ever directly touched upon in the books beyond that (beyond a botched Facebook response from a Pixelberry employee who dubbed her as "bi if she is pursuing you and straight if she is pursuing the Prince" like WTF - and a post from one of the writers stating that the team sees her as "bisexual...but that is something she is still figuring out". However the books never really touches on this the way they did for Kaitlyn, and they really, really should have. They should have established her sexuality in no uncertain terms within canon).
However she identifies herself, Hana's struggles would still be important and valid, and she would still have major issues coming out to herself and her family. In this recent chapter, Lorelai's issues are aired as a class issue rather than on the level of sexuality, which is contradicted by the very fact that Hana was pushed to pursue men, make herself desirable to eligible men, assumed by her parents to only have an interest in men. Not only does canon tell us very little about her parents' views on her sexuality, they don't openly voice what she identifies as!
• Book 1, in fact, is the only book they seemed to have put in some effort, but as I have maintained earlier, I refuse to give them credit for that because what you give in the first book is the foundation of the character. It can only come to life if you build on that foundation in the next book, and the next. But Book 2? Lazy writing from the start. The revelation that Liam - not Madeleine - was responsible for Hana's return came from Drake's scene, not hers. In Italy when Liam and Drake had amazing character and background building scenes, Hana was stuck with scenes that were barely about her. At the beginning of the Paris chapters, she got one of the most lackluster scenes in the entire book (the fashion runway with Penelope). I suppose there must have been some backlash because they brought out two good scenes in the Paris section - the Patisserie scene and the Library scene, only to treat her later like a persona non grata in Shanghai. SHANGHAI. HANA'S OWN HOME.
• This point is incredibly important, because Shanghai was the only place that was home to an LI. The narrative at this place should have been centered around her. The stories and love legends should have been told by her. Her background should have been receiving focus like never before but it didn't. Shanghai only lasted two chapters (as opposed to Capri's 3 and Paris' 4) and neither of those chapters gave her enough focus besides the confrontation with Xinghai. The panda reserve scene revolved around Liam. The night market scene focused on the mending of Drake and Maxwell's relationship with Hana functioning as a mere mediator. Liam was the one who got to give us the lovely dragon koi legend, not Hana who actually lived in China. Hana's only diamond scene in Shanghai focused less on her and more on the trip to NY - and she didn't even appear in the first chapter in that city!! (the writers later came up with the excuse that Hana was emotionally drained after her confrontation with her parents...except that NOBODY in the story - not even the MC - gave a flying fuck about where or how she was or why she wasn't there).
• I bring up Book 2 mainly because it's important for us to understand that what the writers have been doing with Hana isn't just restricted to this book or this post hiatus period. It's been ongoing. She's been given lazy, half-baked writing for a majority of the series, and I cannot even count the "development" she got in Book 1 because those are only building blocks. If you don't develop a character beyond that, all that's really there is a hollow shell. Hana had the promise and the potential to be a truly well-developed character, and they made a shell out of her instead.
• And it's not like the TRR team is unable to write women. Case in point: Olivia Nevrakis. Olivia's character development has been consistent and well-written throughout the entire series. Not only are her background, motivations and emotional state constantly given attention, the narrative somehow ensures she gets good development even when the focus isn't on her.
For instance, Olivia takes a definite backseat in Book 2, and she's mostly relegated to either investigation work or slowly becoming part of the MC's inner circle. She doesn't have a presence in group scenes where Liam appears, and she doesn't have a single individual scene the way she did in Books 1 and 3. Still, she is given enough material to facilitate her growing relationship with the MC (if she so chooses) and the group. As Liam's alternate LI, parallels have been consistently drawn between her and the MC especially in Book 3. Her faith and belief in Liam is constantly highlighted as unwavering, and her trust in the MC takes a while but culminates eventually in Olivia sharing an important part of her family history with her first.
Olivia's growth from a wary cactus to someone who trusts you if you reach out to her enough, wouldn't have been half as convincing if she wasn't given that kind of development. But perhaps this is because Olivia - like Liam - is so involved in the larger plot of the books, whereas Hana exists mostly outside of the main plot.
• But you know WHO isn't exactly all that central to the main plot of the series but still gets great character development? DRAKE. It started slow, with Drake's first individual diamond scene coming in as late as Chapter 7 (which IMO makes sense, since they needed the MC to warm up to him first), but he was given a solid foundation in Book 1 that was built on in Book 2, and furnished with detailing in Book 3. His diamond scenes were mostly rich in character development and the book was consistent in their focus of him as well.
In Book 3, there is a marked difference between how he is written as an LI versus as a friend. While his overall arc was frustrating to some readers, it was built up pretty well and the conclusion to it (the duel) was written in such a way that it really felt like a vindication of sorts. The duel in fact had an added significance if the MC was his fiancée, because both are commoners who are being targeted by Neville for "rising above their station". There isn't a single scene of Drake's in Book 3 that doesn't explore his character in a detailed manner, or have two diametrically different scenes highlighting his LI/non-LI status.
How does the duel act as a game changer for Drake? He tells it to us himself: the duel was not just for his honour alone, but for every commoner a noble has slighted. For his family, for his sister, for his fiancée (if he is marrying the MC) or friend. It's poignant, dramatic, powerful as a culmination of Drake's journey. The conflict resolution of an arc should end with a bang, and Drake's really did.
• Hana on the other hand is a different story altogether. No matter what her relationship is with the MC in Book 3, she is mostly relegated to "best friend" status regardless. Her initial conflicts as a fiancée seemed to indicate she feared turning into her parents (Chapters 1 and 2) and it sounded really promising, but that characterization was dropped as soon as the Unity Tour kicked off. She is depicted worrying about how she will survive and contribute to Cordonia and whether her skills really equipped her for the outside world, but it is explored only in one character scene of hers, and very very superficially.
Unlike the duel scene for Drake, Hana's conflict-resolution scene this chapter falls flat and doesn't really mark much of a change. The only difference in her relationship with her parents' is that they see her as useful minus a man by her side now. Emphasis on useful. What kind of resolution is that? Does it have a great impact? Does it have any impact?
• Hana's treatment is marginally better only when you compare it to Maxwell's, who has had just one character scene so far, and who hasn't seen much significant development since the beginning of Book 3. Even though the team has mentioned that he was meant to be an LI from the beginning, the way he was written in the beginning and the way they write him now tells me otherwise.
But they don't have that excuse for Hana. Hana WAS a confirmed LI from the beginning. She WAS part of the original lineup. Which means they should have been working as hard on her as they did Liam and Drake. What excuse does the team have for not developing her properly??
• The problem here is clear: both Drake and Olivia are centered within the narratives that focus on their stories. When the focus comes to Paris in Book 2, or Lythikos in Book 3, they are front and center. Compared to that, how is Hana going to compete? At the points that the narrative should be focusing on her, she is given garbage in place of content and story. Even when the narrative is supposed to be about her relationship with her parents and her growth outside their influence, she is the least important person. She was the least important person in Shanghai, and she's now the least important person in this chapter that was supposed to showcase how far she has come from the nervous, underconfident girl we met in Book 1. It's even more infuriating when you take into account that she was meant to be the only female LI, that they
1. never planned to give people who wanted to romance a woman in TRR more than just this option, and
2. couldn't be bothered to follow through and do a decent job of the one option they had.
• I hate calling Hana a Mary Sue, because that wasn't at all what she originally was. She was indecisive, had low self esteem, didn't always enjoy the activities and skulls she was pressurized into learning. There was at least one occasion where she spoke of getting her way by failing...and now the same character is labelled a Mary Sue.
But you know what? There's a reason why she is addressed as such. A Mary Sue is a mark of lazy writing and poor characterization, used on characters that are made to appear perfect in lieu of real development. And while Hana started out a little flawed and confused and in need of guidance, she soon turned into this Ms Perfect who was talented in everything and received praises from everyone instead of an actual insight into her character.
• Hana is at a disadvantage on her own. She is the only LI among the four who was brought up elsewhere (in China), and who wasn't from familiar ground (America)/fictional places (Cordonia) for the writers. Her issues are very culture-specific, they rise out of a context. Not many people may relate to that straightaway so it is essential that her story is handled with a lot more care and nuance. She is a woman of colour who is in the closet, brought up (as is hinted) in a family that doesn't exactly view her sexuality as normal. This is how the Hana of Book 1 was written.
Then Book 2 happened, and the writers either realised they didn't know enough to write this story convincingly, or didn't care enough to do the research. I suspect it's a mix of both. Even so, they should have done some reading up, done some homework, tried to at least center this character around her own narrative. No one is asking for a thesis on society and norms in Shanghai - they're asking for some good background, some basic research, legends and stories that she must have grown up with, if that's what it takes to do justice to this character. If you're going to create a character so unfamiliar to this world and make her a love interest, you had better put in the work that story requires.
Otherwise stop. Stop branding yourself as LGBTQ friendly when most of your female LI fans have to make do with mere scraps, stop patting yourselves on the back for including women of colour in your books when you view them as nothing but tokens.
• I'm sure Liam and Drake sound more lucrative...popular...whatever...and that factors into the way they're being writen, but when the lone female LI consistently gets the short end of the stick, what do you expect? They write Hana (and many other female LIs) in such a way that they're almost set up to fail. At least a few players I have spoken to have highlighted how they went from liking Hana in Book 1 to hardly interested in her presence in Book 2. That change didn't occur out of nowhere: when the writers themselves don't write her with any amount of conviction, how do you expect the readers NOT to lose interest?
There have been a lot of improvements made in terms of readers' demands. Whether it involved the way LI scenes were written, or Liam's initial lack of romantic interactions in Book 3, or even how Kiara's PTSD was addressed. The one thing neglected every. single. time. was Hana. And I'm saying this because I've spoken and spoken and spoken about how little Hana is given and how much more she deserves, and things still haven't changed. I highly doubt they will at this point. It's too late now. Hana's arc is largely over, and her ending makes absolutely no sense when you compare it to the way her story was initially written. Had she had the kind of focus that, say, Drake has been having, we wouldn't have this rushed mess of a conclusion for her story.
• Tldr: Hana could reached her potential as a character. She could have been interesting, imperfect, inspiring. If her writers were actually bothered. But they aren't, so those of us who do love her are left wondering if we care about her more than the people who created her (yes we do). I'm tired, fam. I give up. I think I'm done with this book, and I don't think I can ever get back to loving it the way I used to.
#the royal romance#trr hana#hana x mc#hana lee#hana rant#trr quick thoughts#quick thoughts#i think i'm done with this book#long post
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P4 Protagonist's Starting City
I guess this is fitting to post about after I just got home from Tokyo lol. This is something I brought up in the "Is Namatame an outsider?" post. There is a bigger, more detailed explanation than the one I gave there.
At the beginning of Persona 4, the protagonist is shown standing at a train station that has a sign saying "Inouesen" and "For Akihabara" with a green stripe going through the middle. The "sen" is like saying "(train) line", so he's riding the Inoue Line at some unnamed station and he's boarding at track 5.
The green stripe on the sign, the green train, and the mention of Akihabara gives away that the train line he's riding is based on the real life Yamanote Line in Tokyo. They don't name Tokyo, but Persona 3/4/5 seem to take place in the same universe, and Persona 5's map of Tokyo does have Akihabara on the green train line.
As for where he's riding the train from and to... hmm, lol. That's hard. Maybe he's at Shimbashi Station? The Yamanote that would go in the direction of Akihabara is on track 5 at Shimbashi and is also on an outside lmao. I'm not a train otaku - maybe I need to meet one and ask them about this.
I have nfc where he's taking it to either. We know that his ultimate destination is Inaba. Perhaps he's going to Tokyo Station to catch a connecting train to wherever Inaba is?
On the subject of Inaba: I'm still a fan of Tottori as the physical location of Inaba, and Atlus has also written about using buildings in Fuefuki as references. The train that the protagonist rides to the Yasogami terminal is a parody of the Azusa (a real train that stops near Fuefuki) that says あとらす / Atlus instead of Azusa on the nameplate lol.
For an extra level of detail hell: The protagonist has a text message from Dojima saying to meet at the station at 4pm. Can you go from all the way from Tokyo to Fuefuki or Tottori by 4pm?
These aren't perfect since the protagonist has another local train to catch after making it to Yasogami Station, but for the most part: Yeah. For Tottori, you can even ride the Super Inaba for part of the journey.
#persona 4#yu narukami#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Nanako's flower and Rise's gold star
In Adachi's social link in Golden, he says he'll draw Nanako a flower. In Rise's scenario in P4 Ultimax, Elizabeth says "A perfect answer!" and is described as drawing her a gold star with her finger.
These are both talking about the same thing even though they're translated differently - the hanamaru, the drawing of the flower on the right here.
Children such as Nanako receive the flower drawing on their papers when they do well. It's like a cuter version of a 💯 emoji, or having "good job" written on your paper, or like when you get a gold star sticker on your assignment (hence Elizabeth's line).
(I think this is like Kanji's "animal crackers" where it's weird if you don't change it.)
#persona 4#hanamaru#日本語ヘタです#localization#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Iwatodai (Kobe City x Odaiba Island)
The main city of Persona 3, Iwatodai, is fictional but it has two really obvious IRL inspirations. The location and the town map is a fictionalized version of Kobe city in Hyogo, over in the west.
Tatsumi Port Island is based on Kobe's Port Island, and the other island with Paulownia Mall (I'm now realizing I have no idea if this island has a name or not) is a stand-in for Rokko Island. The two islands have been made muuuuch closer and the P3 town map indicates there's a route to cross between them.
The white and black striped line going through Iwatodai Station is the white and gray striped line going through Sannomiya Station. This is the Tokaido Sanyo train line. I assume that there's no Iwatodai Airport for Kobe Airport because Kobe Airport and its island were still under construction when the game was in development.
Iwatodai Station itself must be Sannomiya Station. You can take a train that runs from Sannomiya Station through Port Island and onto Kobe Airport called the Port Liner. This seems to take the same path as the Anehazuru that the protagonist rides from the dorm to Gekkokan. The Port Liner is also above ground and over the water - remember how the party has to run along the above ground rail tracks to fight the High Priestess Shadow?
I recall that the Sannomiya area is considered the city center area in Kobe. So when Atlus mentioned that Adachi worked in the city center of Iwatodai, the area around Iwatodai Station is probably where he worked.
...which means that in Persona 3 Reload, I should be able to go to Iwatodai Station and bother Adachi. The real purpose of me bringing up Persona 3 on this blog at all is to try and will an Adachi cameo into existence. Will it work???
Rokko Island has a bridge connecting it to the mainland called the Great Rokko Bridge. In Persona 3, this bridge has been replaced with a bridge called the Moonlight Bridge. The appearance of the Moonlight Bridge is based on the Rainbow Bridge located in Tokyo.
Which brings us to our next Persona 3 IRL spot - Odaiba. (If you've played Persona 5 Royal, yes, it's the same Odaiba.)
While the map is Kobe, there are various elements taken from Odaiba. The aforementioned Rainbow Bridge connects Odaiba to the mainland. Tatsumi is an area on Odaiba and it might be where Tatsumi Port Island gets its name since they are written with the same kanji (辰巳). The inside of Paulownia mall resembles Venus Fort mall, pictured above, which used to be on Odaiba.
Iwatodai Station is based on the Yurikamome Line's entrance at Shimbashi Station. This isn't on Odaiba, but it's still related because the Yurikamome is the train you use to ride across the Rainbow Bridge to Odaiba. The Yurikamome is the other inspiration for the Anehazuru that the students use to go to Gekkokan in that they're named similarly - Yurikamome and Anehazuru are both names for birds.
"Minato Ward"
I think the Kobe thing might get a little confusing because despite the town map undoubtedly being Kobe, there is a point where they talk about Iwatodai being in the Minato ward in Persona 3. And, coincidentally enough, Minato is the name of the ward in Tokyo where part of Odaiba is located. However, only a small part of Odaiba is actually in Minato ward. The majority of it is in Koto ward:
Additionally, Minato ward is something that multiple prefectures have. Japanese Wikipedia also notes that the Minato ward used to exist in Kobe. Like how Inaba is the old name for the eastern half of the current day Tottori prefecture, Minato ward is an old name for the northern part of the current day Hyogo ward.
Like, IMO, the real answer here is that "Persona 3 and 4 were developed before Persona 5 which is when they started using real cities and stuff and these details are kind of insane to write this much text about but fuck I went on Japanese Wikipedia so I guess Atlus wins in the end".
Additional P3 Locations
There are some additional locations that appear in Persona 3 but they aren't fictionalized mashup cities.
Kyoto is where you go for the class trip. Kyoto is just Kyoto. Simple. I'm not sure if the ryokan the school kids stay at is supposed to be a certain real life location or not.
Yakushima is another real life location. It's famous for (resembling/inspiring?) the scenery of Princess Mononoke. It's fairly annoying to get to IRL (I tried to look up how to get there when I visited Kyushu and wowie nevermind lmao), but I assume SEES got there more easily than a tourist thanks to Mitsuru's $$ money $$. The big tree the girls go to see is also real - it's a world heritage site.
Edit: I remembered someone made a visual as well.
#persona 3#persona 3 reload#tohru adachi#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Is Namatame actually an "outsider" to Inaba?
Izanami gave the handshake to dudes who came from outside of Inaba. We know that Namatame is one of these people because she even lists him as one. Yet the dialogue in the game suggests he is a local.
As it turns out, he's been gone from Inaba for 6 months. And if you didn't get this I totally understand cause it seems to have been lost in translation.
Namatame says that Inaba is his "hometown", which would make him the opposite of an outsider. In Japanese, he says, "...in this town where my parents live".
But "hometown" doesn't really feel wrong, does it? Namatame's parents live in Inaba, he comes back to help with the family business, and the family delivery business is specifically called "Inaba Ta-Q-Bin" (as written on his truck). His family must have lived there for some time. Tbh, I'm pretty sure Inaba IS his hometown.
In the beginning of the game, there's news about the scandal on TV that Dojima and Nanako are watching. The reporters say that, "Last year, Misuzu was married to the Secretary of the Inaba City Council, Taro Namatame, who is suspected of having an affair".
If Namatame is the secretary to the Inaba City Council, wouldn't he live in Inaba? How is he an "outsider"? It turns out that Dojima had answers for us, but we won't recognize this until a repeat playthrough. And even then...
English game script: He's been working in the city for the past 6 months.
My take: He's been working in Tokyo for the past 6 months.
Dojima says that Namatame has been working in "central" for the past 6 months. In the context of government and Namatame being a civil servant, "central" here refers to the place where the "central", main, big kid government things happen. And this is Japan, so that would be the capital city, Tokyo. Namatame has probably been in Tokyo for the past 6 months. (Afaik central does not always refer to Tokyo when used like this, but for his case, I think Tokyo is correct.)
Central got translated as "city" in the English version. "He's been working in the city for 6 months" could be interpreted to mean Inaba itself, which I think makes this unclear.
English game script: Seems he was here recently because of the scandal,
Originally, I posted that I felt the English localization had the context wrong on this sentence because the convo happens on 4/16. That's when Yukiko appears on the Midnight Channel, so Namatame has already gotten fired and moved back to Inaba and started working as a delivery truck driver, and his file in November lists his occupation as delivery truck driver.
However, Namatame did chronologically come back to Inaba to hide from the scandal before being fired from public office. Upon reflection, I think it is more likely that Dojima is referring to that - like it's a rumor or tidbit he heard. But at some point, the police do have to learn he became a delivery truck.
English game script: But he was swamped with work back home at the time of the incident
My take: But at the time of the incident, he was swamped with work in an out of city councilman's office in Tokyo.
(The Tokyo is here for clarity. I doubt Dojima would speak so repetitively in an ADR script.)
Then, Dojima says that Namatame was not in Inaba at the time of Mayumi's death because he was very busy with work in an office (located in Tokyo) for council people who are from out of town (Namatame is not from Tokyo, so he would be in that office).
The English phrased this as "swamped with work back home". But Namatame is a secretary to the local government and he would live in Inaba. As Dojima explained on the previous line, he's been gone from Inaba for 6 months. The part about him being in an office specifically for guys who are from out of town got vaporized too.
My gut says the English was reworded to make it seem like Namatame was not living in Inaba. I'm not sure - It's something about the combo of "He's been in the city for 6mo" and "he was swamped with work back home". Like someone understood that Izanami picked him because he was an outsider, and they were trying to make that make sense in the script?
Also of note is that the protagonist sees this news broadcast where he is before he gets on a train. The sign on top suggests that the protagonist is in Tokyo riding a fictionalized version of the Yamanote Line. Namatame working in Tokyo for the past 6 months is probably why this news is being blasted all over Tokyo as the protagonist leaves.
In any case, Namatame living in the big city for 6 months is apparently enough to qualify him as an "outsider" to Inaba. Izanami didn't seem off base picking him though if her goal was to stir up the small community. His affair did bring media drama and gossip to Inaba.
#persona 4#ryotaro dojima#taro namatame#misuzu hiiragi#izanami persona#日本語ヘタです#localization#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Random conflicting Adachi details in the Golden anime
In the post about "Adachi was totally stalking Mayumi", I mentioned:
I’m aware that the Persona 4 Golden anime has its own version of this where Adachi is actually legitimately seriously assigned to go babysit Mayumi. But that’s just the anime adaptation’s take on Adachi, and in the commentary track for episode 7, the director emphasizes that this is their take and encourages you to think whatever you’d like.
So here are some other decisions that the Golden anime made that conflict with what else is known about the character.
Golden anime: Adachi is in Tokyo before coming to Inaba. They don't name Tokyo, but he's shown working at a rather distinct building when he receives his transfer order to Inaba, and the building is the real life Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department building.
Atlus: Adachi didn't live in Iwatodai, but he did used to work in the heart of the city (source: Persona Stalker Club episode 11).
I assume that the anime staff picked the Tokyo PD to make Adachi look successful before he gets booted all the way to Inaba.
I know some creators just come up with answers to fan questions, but I don't get that impression about this - Atlus had already thought about it if Adachi was talking about being sick of seeing the Moonlight Bridge. (Tho the Moonlight Bridge in Persona 3 is modeled after the real life Rainbow Bridge in Tokyo. I guess we have "Tokyo at home".) I think Iwatodai is a big enough city that Adachi would miss it when he's stuck in Inaba too. It's modeled on the very large port city of Kobe. Going from working there to working in the sticks would be a huge shift.
Golden anime: Adachi is wearing a red tie as he drives into Inaba with his transfer papers.
Atlus: Adachi's red tie was a hand-me-down from Dojima because Dojima couldn't stand seeing the shitty tie Adachi kept wearing (source: Persona Stalker Club episode 5).
The Persona Stalker Club stuff was after the anime aired, so it's not like they could have known. I also don't get the impression that this was a random answer. The person who asked this question on Stalker Club was totally on to something - why *do* these 2 dudes both wear red ties? Also, in Adachi's social link, Nanako points out that he has holes in his socks, so him wearing a threadbare tie that pissed off Dojima sounds about right lol.
Golden anime: Adachi's apartment is rather empty. Barren, even - there are no personalizations or decorations. It's also noticeably clean - part of the plot is him cleaning out his fridge, and the setting files only shows some folded clothes on the ground.
Atlus: Adachi is noted as being bad at tidying up his room (source: his P4U2 profile).
I don't think this is a "random" trivia thing that someone just wrote for his profile. In the notes accompanying his character design from the Persona 4 Design Works, Soejima talks about communicating that Adachi really was an elite in the police force through his bedhead and crooked tie. How elites have some part of them that's "off", and in Adachi's case, it's that he isn't mindful of his appearance.
Imo, what Soejima did with his character design helps give the player a visual about how his home looks without ever actually seeing it. Like the mental image I have of him is, "dude who sleeps on a futon surrounded by stacks of cup noodles and beer cans, uses a 10-in-1 product, owns 1 suit", and I thought that way before ever seeing his P4U2 profile.
Meanwhile, the Golden anime adaptation went in a different direction and used the appearance of his place as an extension of himself. His room's barren appearance and lack of personalizations reflects how Adachi doesn't have much going on in his life, and the kindness forced on him by others is something he keeps on a cold shelf before physically throwing into the trash. Hmm, it feels heavy handed when you type all of it out like that lol.
???: Btw, the anime might make you think Adachi has a classic yellow PVC raincoat, but it's actually a yellow mods coat (source: Soejima's character design for Adachi says "mods coat"). The m51 parka that was worn by mods is made of nylon, so it's also waterproof. That said, I have no idea if the anime was trying to draw him in a pvc raincoat or a yellow mods.
#persona 4#tohru adachi#persona 4 arena ultimax#persona 4 anime#persona stalker club#adachi brainrot#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Adachi's trial and sentencing
I'm tagging this with cw character death & slapping on a read more juuust in case.
I don't know many legal words (my knowledge is from Ace Attorney), but this is all over the place. When the prosecution "rests", it means that a trial is practically over. But then he brings up "going to court" as if he is not already under trial. Additionally, what is "maximum penalty under the law" supposed to mean? Life without parole? Death penalty?
This provided some clarity:
Adachi says a decision has been made to prosecute him. He's been indicted? Or... something. I was not kidding about not knowing legal words lol. The English putting "the prosecution's case finally rested" is a misuse or misunderstanding of the phrase.
At the start of Episode Adachi, Adachi is located in a police holding cell at a police station near Inaba. At the end of Episode Adachi, Adachi says he got moved to a detention center. I know this might seem confusing because the backgrounds are the same, but he is in a different place in the last scene. Detention centers can house multiple types of dudes, but in his case he was moved there because he's awaiting trial.
The maximum penalty in the English version should be capital punishment, cause that's our "say death penalty without actually saying death penalty" phrase. Perusing through some legal resources shows that killing more than 1 person might get you capital punishment over there, so there's some basis to his train of thought. Ponder mortality, or be glad that high schoolers aren't bothering you anymore?
If not capital punishment, then my extremely unprofessional opinion from ruining my Google search history is that he'd get indefinite imprisonment. They spend their time in prison learning a trade skill to help them with their rehabilitation into society on release, eat a ton of barley rice, and... have personal cells... with TVs... Hmm...
Adachi is either gonna die or become... idk, a wood cabinet craftsman? (Or he's getting bailed out of jail by the Shadow Operatives.)
#persona 4#persona 4 arena ultimax#tohru adachi#character death#cw character death#localization#日本語ヘタです#his bmi is babygirl#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Dear Atlus,
Why do Adachi and Marie both have mini bosses based on towers in Tokyo in their dungeons that are both distortions of Inaba? You can't even say this is a palette swap because the models are definitely different.
Why do they have stupidly similar-ish haircuts? Why were they both the social links added for Golden? Why do their arcana numbers (0/11/21) happen to be the start, mid, and end of the Fool's Journey? Why do they both happen to be tsundere? Why can you correlate both of them to Izanami in the Kojiki?
Atlus, please, tell me your secrets. What did you mean by all of this??? 👀 Is Adachi truly woman coded????
#persona 4#tohru adachi#marie persona#adachi is a woman#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!#i guess adachi's is named the giant of envy because tokyo is where he wants to be#marie's being the giant of the heavens is probably cause she's some sort of divine higher power of sorts or something
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Persona 5 IRL Stuff
Requested
The entry and exit to each floor of Mementos is based on the appearance of train stations, and the stamps you collect for Jose are seemingly the game's version of train stamps lol.
I'm not sure if this is still true, but train stamps were introduced to me as something that smaller kids will collect when they travel with their families, so it makes sense to me that the NPC associated with them is also a kid. As an adult tourist, I've never bothered with train stamps cause you really have to go out of your way to find some of them and when I'm at a train station my ass is trying to go somewhere lol. I suppose that even in real life, some of those stamp locations must feel like they're random spawns.
I have absolutely bothered with red shrine seals, though. Maybe Persona 6 will have the protagonist collecting those.
Ryuji takes you to a ramen restaurant in Ogikubo. Based on it being in Ogikubo and the appearance of the restaurant in-game, it's modeled after Marufuku Chinese Noodles near Ogikubo Station. The sign in-game just says "Chinese Noodles" without the store name. I'm not sure if this is a famous restaurant or maybe it's just one that Atlus employees like to eat at lol.
Ryuji also takes you to a monjayaki restaurant in Tsukishima during his Confidant. You go to Tsukishima specifically because Tsukishima has a line of restaurants called Monja Street that specializes in, you guessed it, monjayaki.
Akechi introduces you to a jazz bar in Kichijoji called Jazz Jin. The outside appearance seems to be based on Some Time which is also located in Kichijoji. Only the outside resembles what's in-game, though. The inside is different.
Yongenjaya isn't a real place in Tokyo, but it seems to be a renamed version of Sangenjaya - san means 3, yon means 4. I've not been to Sangenjaya, though I've heard that details like the laundromat, even down to the vending machine, looks nearly the same as it does in-game. (If you are interested in doing Persona 5 tourism around Tokyo, I've heard that the Sangenjaya locals do not appreciate Persona 5 tourism or related loitering in this area.)
Shibuya Station is pretty much accurate with how it is IRL. The green train car that you visit Tora at has been moved since the game came out, but the dog statue of Hachiko (or Buchiko as its known in game) is there, the 1000 stairs you climb to get to the Ginza Line, etc, is also all accurate.
When you touch base with Ohya, you unlock Shinjuku. The movie theater in-game is called Cult 9, which is based on an actual movie theater in Shinjuku called Wald 9. The other areas in Shinjuku seem to be a condensed version of Kabukicho (or Kamurocho, if you've played Like a Dragon).
Futaba wants to go shopping in Akihabara and Nakano. Akihabara you've probably already heard about as Nerd Haven. She also talks about visiting Nakano, likely to go shopping at Nakano Broadway which is home to a bunch of Mandarake 2nd hand anime/etc goods stores.
The "huge pancake" that Morgana was talking about is how Tokyo Dome looks from the outside. The pancakes he's comparing it to are the thicc souffle-style fluffy jiggly pancakes that you can get at various restaurants. (Also probably what Akechi thinks of when he hears delicious pancakes lol.)
The other areas and things, I'm really not sure there's much to say about them.
Ann takes you to Harajuku cause she wanted to eat sweets (this is really relatable btw)
Meiji jingu is also real and located near Harajuku
The buffet Ann takes the guys to is the Marble Lounge, but I believe it's since been remodeled
There's multiple museums in Ueno
There's a Catholic church in west Kanda but afaik the inside looks different than in-game
Inokashira Park is real and has swan boats and stuff
Ikebukuro's planetarium is in Sunshine City Mall
Chinatown is real but it's much further than the map makes you think (it's in Yokohama)
Odaiba Seaside Park is another real location
Miura Beach is also real, way down south past Yokohama
Jimbocho is indeed where you'd go to buy books
etc etc etc
#persona 5#personal 5 royal#p5r#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Kanji's animal crackers
In the English version of Persona 4, Kanji whips out a snack he calls animal crackers and says he's looking for the penguin shape.
In the Japanese game, Kanji is eating a snack called Ototo, which is savory/salty and more similar to Pepperidge Farm goldfish than our more cookie-like animal crackers.
The Ototo shape he's looking for is not the penguin, but rather the rare submarine.
Ototo has a rare penguin shape too, but I'm not sure if it was out during the time the game was developed.
Since this is a Japanese-only snack, I think this change makes sense so it would easily be understood by western players. I assume they picked the penguin as the shape he's looking for because his Arcana is the Emperor, and "Emperor Penguin".
#persona 4#kanji tatsumi#from reddit#日本語ヘタです#food#cw food#localization#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Inaba-Q-Bin
Actually, while I'm Namatameposting, here's some trivia about the delivery service run by his parents.
When Namatame and Dojima do their Initial D shit in November, there's an animated cutscene that shows you a closeup of the logo and name on Namatame's truck. It says, "Inaba-Q-Bin" (いなば急便) and has a rabbit with a messenger bag as the logo. (I like the small bunny head being used for the voice marks on the logo that turn the は into ば. That's cute.)
This is a play on Yamato Transport, which has a service called "Ta-Q-Bin". Or rather, you can tell it's specifically a play on Yamato because of the "Q-Bin" part ("Ta-Q-Bin" is Yamato's trademark) and the use of the animal mascot. Yamato's identifying logo is that of a black cat with a kitten in its mouth. I suppose the rabbit's messenger bag in the Inaba-Q-Bin logo replaces the kitten here lol. The rabbit was likely chosen because of the legend of the Hare of Inaba.
#persona 4#taro namatame#japanese mythology#Btw Kiki's Delivery Service is titled Witchy Ta-Q-Bin in Japanese#Should've let Namatame ride around on a broom kidnapping teenagers#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Topsicles
The guys are eating Home Run Bars, which are ice cream bars that come in various flavors. The flavor they're all eating is vanilla.
Home Run Bars can have different sticks - 1st base, 2nd base, 3rd base, and a home run. You can get another Home Run Bar by trading in the home run stick. (I think in the past, you used to be able to collect the bases to trade in too, but nowadays you collect them and send away for prizes?) If you've played Kingdom Hearts, this might remind you of the sea salt ice cream bars with the "winner" stick.
You can kinda see a resemblance between the wrapped ice cream that Kanji is holding and the Home Run Bar on the right. Apparently this is some kind of special silver wrapper.
In 'murica, the childhood classic is Popsicles, which is an ice pop with a joke written on the stick. I'm assuming that the Topsicle in the English version is an intentional misspelling of Popsicle (since that's a trademarked word and brand), while still reminding the player of Popsicles.
I did Google for Topsicle though, and found a blog with a recipe for a tofu and fruit pops! It mentions that Persona fans theorized that Topsicles were some kind of tofu pop, or an ice pop with ice cream at the top.
#persona 4#kanji tatsumi#日本語ヘタです#topsicles#food#i laughed at the recipe blog assuming tofu was correct because it's japan no sorry it's a regular vanilla ice cream bar#cw food#localization#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Some context for Yukiko
Yukiko's family owns and manages the Amagi Ryokan (天城屋旅館 / Amagiya Ryokan). The title that Yukiko will get when she takes over the ryokan is... let's go with the lady of the house (女将 / okami). She'll be in charge. Ryokans are the traditional "close your eyes and think of Japan"-style of lodging: Futons on tatami mats, natural onsen, kaiseki, overly attentive level of customer service.
In Asia, the family business gets passed within the family. And most of the time, it is passed to a dude. You might have seen some kind of media by now where the family daughter is engaged to some rando because of the family business. Yukiko doesn't have a fiance because ryokans are usually passed between women, as is the title of lady of the house. (*)
"Guy who sews" or "guy who cooks" might be !!~*~CERTIFIED INSANE~*~!! for Japan in the year 2008, but "girl who takes over family ryokan" is as expected. Hence why Yukiko - only child and daughter of a family that has a business that is often inherited by women - starts the game off feeling like, "this is my life".
Her social link really tries to go, "Hey the real message here is that you need to learn to ask others for help!" as Yukiko discovers her love for the ryokan and the staff. But uhhhh well I grew up in the west, so to me it kinda comes off as "picking the community at large over oneself" and "learning to ask others for help while running the ryokan" lol.
Even just her new hairstyle in the Golden ending reflects her inheriting the ryokan. In the start of the game she always has her hair down even while in a kimono, but that bun she's sporting in the Golden ending is very common for ladies who work at ryokans. And if not a bun, then short cut hair. I think it's to communicate that this really has become her life.
In her social link conclusion, she does mention she's still studying to become certified as an interior decorator just in case. At the very least, she's got a way out after the pandemic inevitably causes the ryokan to close 10 years down the road. Maybe she can move in with Chie and decorate gothic horror houses for people.
(*) My understanding of the alternates are as follows: Even if the Amagis had a son instead, his wife would be expected to become the lady of the house. If he has no wife, then the lady of the house would get adopted by the family. If there is absolutely no one to take over the ryokan, then it might just shut down. I am fairly sure these kinds of things have been eased up over the years due to Japan's declining birth rate and people leaving small towns similar to Inaba in hopes of making it in the larger cities.
#persona 4#yukiko amagi#Maybe atlus should have made Yukiko a guy who wants to become the okamisan#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Why is Fuefuki said to be Inaba?
In my Finding Inaba post, I mentioned the belief that Fuefuki was thought to be Inaba because of buildings from there being referenced.
I thought these were lost to time, but Hasino's old posts were still on the Wayback Machine. So here's some backstory on this:
In 2008, Hashino posted on Atlus's old website and recalled a time during Persona 4's development when he and other Atlus staff drove from Shinjuku because they wanted to visit the countryside.
They stopped at towns they saw along the highway and wound up in "some mountainous town". They walked around a random shopping district and took photos, some of which Hashino shared with fans.
After the 2008 blog posting and Persona 4's release, people investigated Hashino's photos of Atlus's visit to a "mountainous town" and figured out it was Fuefuki.
Someone took a pilgrimage to Fuefuki. Said person took photos around town and compared them with screenshots from the game.
Unlike the movie "Your Name" that uses locations like the stairs of the Suga Shrine, or even Persona 3 where Iwatodai is a stand-in for the city of Kobe (you can tell by the map), the shopping district in Fuefuki and its buildings and the town map are nowhere near 1:1 with the game. The old Isawa Onsen Station that resembled Yasoinaba Station has also since been torn down and replaced with a more modern building.
Based on another of Hashino's development posts that mentioned "a school near Fuji Q Highland", the same pilgrim also went to a school near Fuji Q hoping to find Yasogami High. Since it's a real school, they weren't allowed to take comparison photos. Fuji Q is still in the Yamanashi prefecture, but it's not in Fuefuki.
So we do know for a fact that Atlus used streets and buildings there as a reference, and also spoke to people on the street, but I'm not sure using buildings as reference should really be taken to mean, "that's literally Inaba". Like Hashino purposely avoided saying "We stopped in Fuefuki" when he posted first in 2008. (Also, I would find it very hard to take anyone's complaining about being stuck in the sticks seriously if they're a 2 hour train ride from Tokyo lol.)
In my case - I didn't want to just see buildings, so I skipped Fuefuki and went to the area said to be related to the game's mythology and also where an Inaba territory used to exist.
#persona 4#japan travel#from reddit#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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Finding Inaba
When I visited Japan in April, I got the idea in my head to visit the region that I believe represents where Persona 4 takes place since I had just replayed it in January. But how do you go somewhere that isn't real? Anime and video game pilgrimages are a thing. The term 聖地巡礼 (pilgrimage to the holy land) is used in Japanese to describe visiting a real life location that was used in a fictional something or other you saw. If you read up on the SMT fan wiki, it tells you to go to Fuefuki in Yamanashi because it has/had buildings there that look like the ones from Persona 4. But I wanted something more "authentic". Rather than go see a building, I wanted to go to an area that I thought reflected the game.
At the start of the game, the protagonist leaves the big city (presumably Tokyo) behind and goes to a small nowheresville city in the sticks called Inaba and he gains a Persona named after Izanagi (one of the important figures from the Kojiki). Inaba is a fictional, but I believe that a mashup of somewhere in Shimane and Tottori makes sense as a "real" location for it.
The game has a lot of references to the Kojiki mythology besides Izanagi - like the name Inaba itself comes from the Hare of Inaba, and the protag goes to a high school called Yasogami High. The modern day equivalents to some of the areas used as settings in those stories can be found in the Sanin region, which spans part of Shimane and Tottori. The eastern half of the Tottori prefecture where Tottori city is also used to be called the Inaba area before it was folded into Tottori. Those 2 are also the least populated prefectures in Japan, contributing to the "small town" and "nowheresville" feeling.
Izanagi's sister/wife that he co-created Japan with, Izanami, is said to be buried on Mt Hiba in Shimane where the modern day city of Yasugi is. (Perhaps Izanami is hanging out as a gas station attendant around her tomb? Hmm.) And Iya, located near Yasugi, has a folklore site called Yomotsuhirasaka named after the entrance to the underworld which also gets referenced as a dungeon. I wrote about my visit there in another post.
The map of Inaba from the game would kinda look like the map of Yasugi if you flipped it upside too. 🤔
The Tottori area in particular also makes sense geographically as the gang could theoretically ride scooters to the beach for the summer event, there's nearby skiing areas for the February event, plus the cast could feasibly go on a class trip to Kobe (the city used as the basis for Iwatodai from P3) from Tottori in a few hours time for the September event. Perhaps Tottori City itself is the larger Okina City in the game?
As you can tell, I have thought about this a completely normal(?) amount because I am unsatisfied with the belief in the fandom regarding Fuefuki in Yamanashi being Inaba purely due to buildings from there being used for location references. I get that Atlus themselves wrote about using Fuefuki as a reference. But like, the eastern half of Tottori used to be called Inaba and you can even go visit Yomotsuhirasaka. To me, the Sanin area represents it better.
Unrelated but amusing coincidence: There's a famous museum with a landscape garden in Yasugi called the Adachi Museum of Art. Clearly, Adachi opened a landscape garden over Izanami's tomb.
#persona 4#japanese mythology#japan travel#from reddit#mini adachi's adventures#can't believe they made the country that persona takes place in a real country!!!
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