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#but also sorry to all of the characters I could not fit in there

thydungeongal · 2 days

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Hey do you know any ttrpgs that take place in high fantasy worlds but aren't combat centric?

I've got a sprawling fantasy world or several I want to keep using for games but I want to step away from the combat-centric dungeon crawls of your dnd's and pathfinders for a bit and experience more of what's going on in the RPG space.

Sorry if you're not the right person to ask, you just feel like someone who might have opinions on the topic.

I have a few I could recommend!

First of all, Burning Wheel. Burning Wheel is an interesting game because it's a fantasy RPG with a very simple core system (d6 dice pool) with a bunch of systems built on top of it to the point where it's actually amazingly complex. Now, the default setting of Burning Wheel is very Tolkienistic. It assumes a medieval level of technology and a human-centric world, with elves, dwarves, and orcs filling the non-human side. It's a fascinating system but also a lot. What it does best is support characters with firm beliefs and ideals living according to those beliefs and ideals, and it can support high intrigue just as well as combat. (There is a combat system but it is almost better suited to duels instead of skirmishes.)

Mythras and RuneQuest are d100 fantasy RPGs, the former being basically a version of the latter but without the Glorantha license. Now, they are very trad RPGs and as such combat remains the one part of their systems they are most opinionated about, but both make combat into a very gritty and lethal affair to the point where engaging in combat without thinking is very much discouraged. They also have extremely detailed and fine-grained magic systems, as well as systems that encourage characters growing organically. And the system of Passions that mechanically reward characters acting according to their beliefs and building connections to the world. Now, Glorantha is one of the coolest fantasy settings on the planet, but if you've already got a setting of your own Mythras might be the better of the two.

Hmmm. I'm actually drawing a blank here. Oh, there's Free from the Yoke, which is a game based on Legacy: Life Among the Ruins, but set in a medieval fantasy setting where an alliance of noble houses has staged a revolution and freed their people from foreign rule. The game has some implied setting to it, with there apparently being some Slavic influences to the setting, but looking at it I think it could fit into almost any high fantasy setting with minimal modification. However, the gameplay loop will center around each player controlling a noble house, with two different levels of fiction (house level and character level, as they each also control an individual member of their own house), so it shouldn't be treated as a generic game.

#thydungeongal answers

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ach-sss-no · 1 day

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someone asked why i loudly asserted that the stewing rabbits bit of lotr is the opposite book vs. movie and i think it is time to move off of the giant reblog chain i'm making

The Premise: Sam, Frodo and Gollum are all doing the opposite of what they are doing in the book in some fashion or another

(first off: in the movie they abandon the stew and don't eat it. the book takes a lot longer with all of this, and they do in fact eat the stew, and I definitely understand the movie couldn't be as expansive with the pacing but it's just. funny to me. they don't eat the stew vs. they do eat the stew, there's your first opposite)

now. THE SCENE: Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit

(Small disclaimer/disclosure: I referenced the script instead of a movie clip for this, so there may be some nuance missed in visuals or whatever but I don't think it would be enough of a difference to matter and hopefully you will soon see why not)

Frodo

Starting with him because this is simplest.

In the movie, Frodo is just sitting there minding his own business when Gollum dumps dead rabbits in his lap. (Then he doesn't interact with the ensuing conversation at all)

In the book he's asleep when Gollum brings the rabbits and does not participate in the scene. Okay, so he's awake vs. asleep. Easy.

(Also, book Frodo didn't witness the conflict between the other two characters and had no opportunity to intervene, which creates an interesting 'what could have been', but I am digressing. We are only 10% of the way in. buckle up)

Sam

In the movie, Sam is passive and reacting. Gollum dumps dead rabbits in Mr. Frodo's lap oh no what do I guess we'll cook them

In the book, Sam is active and orchestrating events.

Sam decides of his own accord that he wants to address their dwindling supplies:

Sam had been giving earnest thought to food as they marched. Now that the despair of the impassable Gate was behind him, he did not feel so inclined as his master to take no thought for their livelihood beyond the end of their errand; [in case you forgot. Earlier on Sam was like 'we won't have enough food for the way back' and frodo essentially responds with 'the way back. oh you sweet summer child'] and anyway it seemed wiser to him to save the waybread of the Elves for worse times ahead.

Note: This is all very good reasoning by Mr. Samwise and an excellent example of why he's so necessary to the quest! Yes, staying alive is step one.

But Where to get food? In both movie and book Sam is taking advantage of his resources (dead rabbits acquired via gollum), but in the book he's way more proactive about it:

An idea struck him and he turned to Gollum. Gollum had just begun to sneak off on his own, and he was crawling away on all fours through the fern. 'Hi! Gollum!' said Sam. 'Where are you going? Hunting? Well see here, old noser, you don't like our food, and I'd not be sorry for a change myself. Your new motto's always ready to help. Could you find anything fit for a hungry hobbit? ' 'Yes, perhaps, yes,' said Gollum. 'Sméagol always helps, if they asks-- if they asks nicely.' 'Right!' said Sam. 'I does ask. And if that isn't nice enough, I begs.'

In this point in the book Sam has now:

Decided of his own accord that he has a problem and that he wants to actively solve it

Arrived at a solution to the problem without any outside help or suggestions

Commanded Gollum to go hunt

In the point in the movie Sam has done:

Nothing

I'm not exaggerating. In the movie the scene hasn't started yet.

In both book and movie, rabbits are acquired a little while later. In the book this is a nonevent because Sam requested and expected rabbits. In the movie, the rabbits unexpectedly appear, and Gollum says they are for the hobbits to eat (Sam doesn't even come up with the idea to eat them on his own!)

They are young. They are tender. They are nice. Yes they are! Eat them! Eat them! [He bites and tears into the raw meat.]

GOLLUM SHOWED HIM HOW TO EAT THEM LIKE A MOTHER CAT.

Anyway, in the movie, we just cut to Sam stewing the rabbits after that.

But in the book, Sam isn't done arranging things:

He thought for a bit, while he took out his knife, cleaned and whetted it, and began to dress the rabbits. He was not going to leave Frodo alone asleep even for a few minutes. 'Now, Gollum,' he said, 'I've another job for you. Go and fill these pans with water, and bring 'em back! '

'Sméagol will fetch water, yes,' said Gollum. 'But what does the hobbit want all that water for? He has drunk, he has washed.' 'Never you mind,' said Sam. `If you can't guess, you'll soon find out. And the sooner you fetch the water, the sooner you'll learn. Don't you damage one of my pans, or I'll carve you into mincemeat.'

So now Sam has:

Decided of his own accord that he has a problem and that he wants to actively solve it

Arrived at a solution to the problem without any outside help or suggestions

Commanded Gollum to go hunt

Lovingly watched Frodo sleep

Collected rabbits after they were provided and begun skinning them

Assigned Gollum to fill his cook-pans

Gollum leaves to do this new errand and Sam starts building a cook fire.

He was just stooping over his fire, shielding it and building it up with heavier wood, when Gollum returned, carrying the pans carefully and grumbling to himself. He set the pans down, and then suddenly saw what Sam was doing. He gave a thin hissing shriek, and seemed to be both frightened and angry. 'Ach! Sss -- no!' he cried. 'No! Silly hobbits, foolish, yes foolish! They mustn't do it!' 'Mustn't do what?' asked Sam in surprise. 'Not make the nassty red tongues,' hissed Gollum. `Fire, fire! It's dangerous, yes it is. It burns, it kills. And it will bring enemies, yes it will.'

Sam has just been given a completely sane and rational reason why a fire is a bad idea (they are in a dangerous area and can't risk attention!) (as well as a reason that is less pertinent- it looks like Gollum is afraid of fire, and he may have sensible reasons to be afraid of fire because it is dangerous, but this is not Sam's problem)

Sam addresses the 'it will bring enemies' thing

'I don't think so,' said Sam. `Don't see why it should, if you don't put wet stuff on it and make a smother. But if it does, it does. I'm going to risk it, anyhow. I'm going to stew these coneys.'

And Sam is like, nah.

Now Gollum gets upset that he's 'ruining good meat' by cooking it

Now Sam de-escalates

Now, now! ' said Sam. 'Each to his own fashion. Our bread chokes you, and raw coney chokes me. If you give me a coney, the coney's mine, see, to cook, if I have a mind. And I have. You needn't watch me. Go and catch another and eat it as you fancy -- somewhere private and out o' my sight. Then you won't see the fire, and I shan't see you, and we'll both be the happier. [He still managed to slip in a 'get out of my sight'] I'll see the fire don't smoke, if that's any comfort to you.'

In the movie he just insults the quality of the meat:

SAM What's to ruin? There's hardly any meat on 'em.

...which I suppose is fair in this alternate universe where the rabbits were just dumped in his lap, unwanted.

Then in the movie they skip to the taters conversation, but in the book, there's more!

Back to the book:

Gollum withdrew grumbling, and crawled into the fern. Sam busied himself with his pans. 'What a hobbit needs with coney,' he said to himself, 'is some herbs and roots, especially taters -- not to mention bread. Herbs we can manage, seemingly.' 'Gollum!' he called softly. 'Third time pays for all. I want some herbs.'

Gollum says no.

'Sméagol'll get into real true hot water, when this water boils, if he don't do as he's asked,' growled Sam. 'Sam'll put his head in it, yes precious. And I'd make him look for turnips and carrots, and taters too, if it was the time o' the year. I'll bet there's all sorts of good things running wild in this country. I'd give a lot for half a dozen taters.'

Now Gollum asks what taters are, gets a cryptic answer, and is offered a kind of food he has just expressed he does not want (cooked food) and again ordered to fetch herbs. Gollum declines.

'You couldn't say no to that.' 'Yes, yes we could. Spoiling nice fish, scorching it. Give me fish now, and keep nassty chips!' 'Oh you're hopeless,' said Sam. 'Go to sleep!'

The movie finally has some of the same words in almost the same place:

SAM PO-TAY-TOES! Boil 'em. Mash 'em. Stick 'em in a stew. Lovely big golden chips with a nice piece of fried fish…. SM�AGOL [i'm not fixing it blah] [Sticks out his tongue in disgust] Pbbbttt!! [so now he's just devolved into making fart noises] SAM Even you couldn't say no to that. [He takes a sip of the stew] SM�AGOL Oh yes we could! Spoil nice fish... [scrambles up close to Sam] Give it to usss rrraw... and wrrriggling! [That line is not in the book. every time i see it quoted i age a year] [Makes sickeningly happy face.] You keep nasty chips. [Hops away] SAM You're hopeless.

The scene here ends in the movie.

In the movie, Sam has:

Watched rabbits be thrown at Frodo

Started cooking them after being all but commanded to eat them

Had some banter with Gollum

Left the scene without eating his stew

Sam is a passive character who is not orchestrating events, but rather reacting to them. A character being passive is not in and of itself a bad thing. I am only pointing it out because it is different from the book and a big change to this specific character (wanted to mention that because some people really don't like passive characters in general, I think they have a place. Frodo is rather passive in this scene but he obviously has a purpose.)

...In the book, Sam stews the rabbits for an hour and then eats the stew with Frodo

Frodo yawned and stretched. 'You should have been resting Sam,' he said. 'And lighting a fire was dangerous in these parts.

Wow! Was it? I feel like someone mentioned that earlier.

'Gollum! ' Sam called and whistled softly. 'Come on! Still time to change your mind. There's some left, if you want to try stewed coney.' There was no answer. 'Oh well, I suppose he's gone off to find something for himself. We'll finish it,' said Sam. [...] We don't see eye to eye, and he's not pleased with Sam, O no precious, not pleased at all.'

Whyever not?

To sum, book!Sam has:

Decided of his own accord that he has a problem and that he wants to actively solve it

Decided he's going to assign Gollum to the problem (This also demonstrates Sam's interpersonal intelligence. He notices what Gollum's capable of and understands intuitively how it can be turned to something industrious and useful) (Sam has made some missteps in other areas which are in the next section)

Commanded Gollum to go hunt

Collected rabbits after they were provided (according to his request), and began skinning them

Watched Frodo sleep

Assigned Gollum to fill his cook-pans, specifically because he does not want to leave Gollum and Frodo alone together, which is sensible

Threatened to carve Gollum into mincemeat, while holding a knife

Watched Frodo sleep and reflected on his poor health

Skinned the rabbits and put them in stew

Been told a cook fire is a bad idea and declined to stop what he's doing. A character being told to stop doing something & continuing with it anyway is another way for that character to show agency.

Asked Gollum to fetch herbs and potatoes (was refused)

Foraged a few herbs himself

Eaten lovely stew (while lamenting that there are no onions in it, and no bowls to put it in ;_;)

Offered Gollum stew long after (hours after) Gollum got angry and left

...all because Sam initially decided he wanted to acquire and cook food, and then took every necessary step to make that happen of his own accord.

Sam is an active character with high agency.

He is also showing more care for Frodo here (watching him while asleep and fretting over his health, lamenting that he somehow made rabbit stew from nothing by using his resources (which do here include another character- people are also resources!) but he can't put it in a nice bowl for mr. frodo- there's just a lot more here, which is natural because prose is a more detail-rich medium. Not all of this would have fit in the movie and I'm not saying it should have.

Even allowing for time, however, I do think there would have been a way to collapse this scene to the needed time requirement and still have Sam in charge of it instead of Gollum.

The scene finally ends on:

Then he noticed a thin spiral of blue-grey, smoke, plain to see as it caught the sunlight, rising from a thicket above him. With a shock he realized that this was the smoke from his little cooking-fire, which he had neglected to put out.

Did anyone foresee this?

Gollum

In the movie, Gollum is foisting a gift on Frodo and forcing social interaction that he doesn't want.

In the book, Gollum wants to go away somewhere so he can eat and is pressed into reluctant manual labor instead

Gollum is a little different from the other two characters in that his personality and motivations are also completely different here. (Where as Sam at least still has the same goals of looking after Frodo and making food.)

The scene is in Sam's POV so what Gollum is thinking and feeling has to be inferred from his actions/words/tone, but he's not exactly subtle.

The movie scene starts off with Gollum turning up with rabbits. He dumps them in Frodo's lap. He makes a spectacle of himself. He starts mauling the corpses.

The book scene starts off with Gollum trying to slip away somewhere to eat in private.

That's another thing. Gollum doesn't demonstratively bite into things Gollum always slips away somewhere to eat in private. Earlier:

It was actually not long before Gollum returned; but he came so quietly that they did not hear him till he stood before them. His fingers and face were soiled with black mud. He was still chewing and slavering. [He didn't bring food back on purpose. He's still chewing because he only has six teeth.] What he was chewing, they did not ask or like to think. 'Worms or beetles or something slimy out of holes,' thought Sam. 'Brr! The nasty creature; the poor wretch! ' Gollum said nothing to them, until he had drunk deeply and washed himself in the stream. Then he came up to them, licking his lips. 'Better now,' he said.

(Emphasis added.. Imagine you just recruited a serial killer to your D&D-party-in-real-life and he silently turns up covered in mud and won't talk to you. It looks like he's been eating bugs. He won't speak. he won't tell you what he's eating.)

Back to the scene in question: Gollum's leaving. Sam flags him down and asks him to hunt.

'Hi! Gollum!' said Sam. 'Where are you going? Hunting? Well see here, old noser, you don't like our food, and I'd not be sorry for a change myself. Your new motto's always ready to help. Could you find anything fit for a hungry hobbit? '

He asks in an insulting and confrontational way. ('old noser' + 'Your new motto's always ready to help' reeking of suspicion)

To be clear, I'm not criticizing Sam whatsoever for disliking and being suspicious of the known murderer he's traveling with against his will. but the way he talks to Gollum does have consequences.

'Yes, perhaps, yes,' said Gollum. 'Sméagol always helps, if they asks -- if they asks nicely.'

Gollum is reluctant and asks to be treated politely. I don't find this response disproportionate or unreasonable. Consider what would happen if anyone talked to LOTR-era Bilbo Baggins the way Sam just talked to Gollum. The ash would still be falling from the sky.

Anyway Sam's response is to mimic the way he talks.

'Right!' said Sam. 'I does ask. And if that isn't nice enough, I begs.'

Gollum leaves, and is gone a long time. While he's gone, Sam gazes lovingly at Frodo, and - this is not directly relevant but I wanted to note it:

Gollum returned quietly and peered over Sam's shoulder. Looking at Frodo, he shut his eyes and crawled away without a sound. [Seeing that Sam and Frodo are occupied, Gollum slips away without interrupting, which is also a different vibe from 'assaulting Frodo with rabbits while he's just sitting there.'] Sam came to him a moment later and found him chewing something and muttering to himself

Look! There's a character arc happening in the background [but not in the movies] It will reach fruition at Cirith Ungol [in the books]

Anyway, Gollum is chewing on something so he's clearly taken time out to hunt for himself as well (note for context: He's disastrously underweight and has been complaining of hunger).

On the ground beside him lay two small rabbits, which he was beginning to eye greedily. 'Sméagol always helps,' he said. `He has brought rabbits, nice rabbits. But master has gone to sleep, and perhaps Sam wants to sleep. Doesn't want rabbits now? Sméagol tries to help, but he can't catch things all in a minute.'

Gollum has brought rabbits on command, and he's reluctant to hand them over. This is the direct opposite of bringing rabbits of his own accord out of nowhere and forcing them onto somebody.

'Now, Gollum,' he said, 'I've another job for you. Go and fill these pans with water, and bring 'em back! ' 'Sméagol will fetch water, yes,' said Gollum. 'But what does the hobbit want all that water for? He has drunk, he has washed.' 'Never you mind,' said Sam.

That was a reasonable question, asked politely and prefaced by 'yes I'll do it'. There's no call for a 'never you mind' and there's certainly no call for this:

`If you can't guess, you'll soon find out. And the sooner you fetch the water, the sooner you'll learn. Don't you damage one of my pans, or I'll carve you into mincemeat.'

Gollum does the work and is careful with the pans as requested.

He was just stooping over his fire, shielding it and building it up with heavier wood, when Gollum returned, carrying the pans carefully and grumbling to himself.

He set the pans down, and then suddenly saw what Sam was doing.

Gollum discovers that 'Never you mind' meant 'I am going to do something you find dangerous and terrifying' i'm pretty sure this is what he's seeing in his POV

He gave a thin hissing shriek, and seemed to be both frightened and angry. `Ach! Sss -- no!' he cried.

Gollum gets angry.

At this point in the movie, Gollum has:

Dumped rabbits in Frodo's lap

Told him to eat them

Played with the dead animals in front of Frodo

there's a cut to Sam cooking the rabbits- Gollum makes no comment at all on the safety or feasibility of a fire, but gets right up close to it to peer into the cookpot, so he must not be too scared of it.

In the book, Gollum has:

Tried to slip away, presumably to eat, because he's hungry. Or maybe he just wants alone time! Shelob is not in visiting range. He's not being dastardly. Leave him alone

He's been flagged down to do additional work, and interrupted from whatever he wanted to do

Went off somewhere. Caught two rabbits (with his bare hands, I assume??) Also caught at least one other thing, because he's chewing something when he comes back

Came back with rabbits

Left Sam to his tender moment with Frodo and went off for more alone time

Gently floated the idea that perhaps Sam doesn't want these rabbits anymore, surrendered the rabbits when asked

Agreed to another errand that is probably difficult for him to do, after hunting down at least two rabbits Up to this point Gollum has been called 'old noser', had his speech patterns parroted at him in a mocking way, had a polite question refused, and been told he will be 'carved into mincemeat' if he damages the cooking pans (does Gollum even know what a cooking pan is? When was the last time he's seen one? Was he just handed some foreign object and told 'put water in it and don't break it' 'of course! why?' 'stfu') Gollum has a whole long complicated history that would reasonably make him very prone to difficulties with emotional regulation. Severe trauma and centuries of social isolation are involved.

He only just now gets angry, now that he thinks Sam is going to start a forest fire and summon orcs and the first word out of his mouth is a relatively restrained 'Ach!' a word that doesn't even start with an F!

Gollum says fire is harmful and will draw enemy attention. Sam says essentially 'probably not but if it does that's too bad'.

Another bit of context is that Gollum has been presenting himself as the 'wilderness survival guy' and has obvious pride when he's talking about finding his way through the marsh. Sam isn't just being dismissive of Gollum, he's particularly dismissing something Gollum has real knowledge of and takes pride in that has nothing to do with being a corrupted evildoer.

Then Sam says he's going to cook the food.

'Stew the rabbits!' squealed Gollum in dismay. `Spoil beautiful meat Sméagol saved for you, poor hungry Sméagol! What for? What for, silly hobbit? They are young, they are tender, they are nice. Eat them, eat them!' He clawed at the nearest rabbit, already skinned and lying by the fire.

After all of that, we are at 'They are young, they are tender, they are nice. Eat them, eat them!' In the movie, the scene started with this line, apropros of nothing, and it's just. Yelled at Frodo. It's an invitation.

In the book: The same line is a cry of frustration. This isn't a non sequitur, this is a last straw! Gollum is hungry. He's been chronically hungry for a long time. The rabbits are exactly the kind of thing he likes to eat. They must smell amazing to him because now they're skinned. He had to turn them over to Sam after going to the work of hunting them (he didn't have to do this, he could have just not come back, or pretended he didn't find anything- whether or not his motives are pure, and they probably aren't, he's doing what he promised).

In return: Sam told him to do more work, and then started a fire- which Gollum seems to genuinely think is idiotic and puts his own safety at risk because he's stuck with these hobbits for the time being- Sam won't listen to reason and put it out, and to add insult to injury, that meat he insisted on?

HE'S JUST GOING TO RUIN IT

Imagine you were hungry and you brought someone an oreo (also you had to wander around in the woods and find the oreo and then surprise it from behind and break its neck), and that person just! scraped off the cream filling and replaced it with spray cheese! after that person called you a jerk and set a fire in a trash can! Maybe that person loves spray-cheese oreos! Maybe everyone but you loves them! I think you'd still be frustrated! (If you're the person who loves spray cheese oreos, pretend it's something else.)

On my first reading of the book this is where I got that sinking 'I am feeling a mite sympathetic to the horrible murderer that I know is just going to stay evil and die in the end' feeling. Gollum is being dreadfully annoying, but he's been pushed past his ability to self-regulate. It feels like the dynamic of antagonizing someone until they melt down and then criticizing them for melting down (Sam is not intending to do this, and doesn't even seem to notice that's what's happened, but the result is the same.)

Sam smooths things over and lets Gollum leave! until

Until

'Gollum!' he called softly. 'Third time pays for all. I want some herbs.' Gollum's head peeped out of the fern, but his looks were neither helpful nor friendly.

WHYEVER NOT?

'A few bay-leaves, some thyme and sage, will do -- before the water boils,' said Sam. 'No! ' said Gollum. `Sméagol is not pleased. And Sméagol doesn't like smelly leaves. He doesn't eat grasses or roots, no precious, not till he's starving or very sick, poor Sméagol.'

(Gollum was retching at the scent of flowers earlier. He may be annoyingly dramatic but I have no cause to doubt that they really did make him feel ill)

(also, I'm out in the weeds speculating now, but I just noticed Gollum is starting to spout off talking about himself and how he feels after Sam pooh-poohed his fretting about the fire, and it feels like a bid for recognition, did you notice Sam has not been calling him Sméagol? Sam isn't using his real name.)

The response:

'Sméagol'll get into real true hot water, when this water boils, if he don't do as he's asked,' growled Sam.

Gollum is here under duress and is cooperating with a quest that is in every way opposed to his personal interests and survival.

'Sméagol won't go, O no precious, not this time,' hissed Gollum. 'He's frightened, and he's very tired, and this hobbit's not nice, not nice at all. Sméagol won't grub for roots and carrotses and -- taters. What's taters, precious, eh, what's taters?

He hasn't had any rest because he was immediately sent off to hunt. I'll bet he is tired

Gollum is still willing to stop being angry because he saw a shiny new word, let's see how this goes

`Po-ta-toes,' said Sam. 'The Gaffer's delight, and rare good ballast for an empty belly. But you won't find any, so you needn't look. But be good Sméagol and fetch me the herbs, and I'll think better of you

Sam gives a cryptic answer and demands more work. 'I'll think better of you?' Lies! Gollum just did two errands and received nothing but more verbal abuse. Sam did not even thank him. This was where on my first reading I was saying to myself 'oh no Sam is mishandling this really badly and doesn't even notice'

I'll cook you some taters one of these days. I will: fried fish and chips served by S. Gamgee. You couldn't say no to that.' 'Yes, yes we could. Spoiling nice fish, scorching it. Give me fish now, and keep nassty chips! ' 'Oh you're hopeless,' said Sam. 'Go to sleep!'

Gollum doesn't understand what chips are. He just said he doesn't like plants or cooked food. He's tired and hungry and has been ordered around all day. He did everything asked up to now and in return he gets called hopeless.

Sméagol willingly, nonconfrontationally, successfully did two out of the three tasks, and when he refuses a third task after being demeaned and dismissed, he's called hopeless.

So Gollum leaves. That's the end of his involvement in this scene. he didn't hit anyone, bite anyone, or call Sam anything worse than 'not nice', 'silly' and 'foolish' (He does not call Sam a 'stupid fat hobbit', that appears to be a movie invention as well)

In the movies, he threw dead animals at frodo and some of this dialog was said without any of the context. haha funni.

The takeaways from the book version are that Gollum can understand and follow verbal commands and do errands (this is important because Gollum needs to be somewhat sane and lucid in order to satisfyingly be held accountable for his crimes), will cooperate when asked, communicates poorly, has trouble controlling his temper, and may at any time be in physical distress and not show it. (He doesn't give outward signs of fatigue.)

The takeaways from the movie version seem to be that Gollum is hyperactive, doesn't understand facial expressions, and finds cooking to be an alien custom. No one tried to ask him to do anything, so I have no idea whether he can understand requests and do tasks or not. May or may not be lucid.

Can we at least agree that Sam saying 'You're hopeless' after this:

Give it to usss rrraw… and wrrriggling! [Makes sickeningly happy face.]

is a different vibe from Sam saying 'You're hopeless' after hearing this?

'[Sméagol]'s frightened, and he's very tired, and this hobbit's not nice, not nice at all.'

Summary

Why is this scene the opposite?

Frodo has gone from being asleep but serving as an emotional anchor (both Sam and Gollum look at him and have some kind of emotional revelation, although the latter has his in private and we don't ever know what it is, the cad) to being awake but doing nothing and leaving. (He does go and find Faramir when the scene ends, but at that point, we are moving on to the next scene. so I don't count it.) Frodo has gone from affecting events while asleep to having no effect while awake

Sam has gone from being in charge of what's happening to passively reacting to a chaos gremlin

Gollum has gone from following orders until he can't take it anymore and suffering to being a chaos gremlin who does whatever he wants and seemingly having a good time? he's dancing around

The stew goes from eaten to uneaten

The overall purpose of the original scene appears to have been mainly to establish character and relationship dynamics. The movie scene... is doing the same, I suppose, but it's so brief and stripped of context that it almost feels like an homage more than a real scene, like it's there because they couldn't get away with entirely cutting it. And as every character is behaving contrary to what they used to in one form or another, the overall effect is:

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Ask me about the waterfall scene next

#long post #never ask me about the waterfall scene

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ghostflowerhotpotch · 2 days

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How do you think the spider gang would react to Gwen coming out as trans? I think they'd all be supportive, but I'm curious if you have details

I am going to be honest with you anon, I had been looking at this question for weeks, thinking about it, and...I am not coming up with much.

I am trans, I don't have that much experience with people reacting to that- and I am not making any more comments about that.

Going back to the original question- I think all of them would be supportive; regardless of background or history, I feel doing anything else would be a disservice to the characters, and also, a type of story I really don't have interest entertaining, (Would Noir, being from 40s, be reasonable to have his apprehensions and need to overcome it? Yes, I am interested in seeing something like that? Personally, fuck no.)

Now, it doesn't mean there cannot be hiccups- all well intending, of course.

(Specific characters under the cut because, as always with me, it got long.)

Peter B I see going over the top; talking how brave Gwen is, and that he supports her no matter what, he also reads a book on trans people and tell hims about the people in his universe who are trans. Gwen appreciates it, but it can be uncomfortable at times.

Noir, regardless of time period, would be supportive, but mixes up terminology. The poor guy already struggles with the pop culture lingo, so throwing queer lingo into the mix can make things awkward; specially since, as a spider-man, he has defended the marginalized people of his dimension and is aware of the community, but- that community had its own terminology that may not be appreciated to day. Is a growing curve.

In my opinion, Ham is a much of a man as Bugs Bunny, meaning gender isn't as important as commitment to the bit; so I can see him busting a dress all of the sudden and saying "I get you sis." Accordingly, if asked about his own gender, he is pretty much "normally a guy, but in general whatever fits better with the scene."

Peni I headcanon as nonbinary, so I think she would be happy to meet another person who isn't cis. Definitely would have lots of talk about presentation, tricks for clothes a make up, the works.

Margo is cool about it, there isn't much to say there; she just tells Gwen that it doesn't change anything between them, and she is still invited to come for the slumber parties (Margo has thrown a bunch in the Spider-Society, because anything to spend as little time mentally at home as possible.)

Pavitr: "Oh so you are like a hijra? That's so cool!" (This is a term from a place I am not from, so I can't talk in length about it, feel free to look it up because it is indeed, very cool.) While not the same, he ends up telling more about how people in his dimension see transgender people, Gwen finds it overall really interesting.

Hobie is, of course, cool about it. He is a punk, noncomformist, and "hates labels," he could probably tell Gwen a stupid amount of things about queer history, intersectionally, so far and so forth. Despite using he/him pronouns, I believe with all my heart Hobie would not give a shit about gender roles and dress how he likes, and be okay with any pronouns. This has nothing to do with your question, but I headcanon that Hobie has been the queer awakening of many other teens of the Spider-Society as he strolls down in whatever outfit he feels like it.

Now Miles, is obviously supportive. I think he may be oblivious to many things (I headcanon him as bi for a long awhile, but I am not sure if that's something he knows already or has yet to discover,) so he asks questions, but is always respectful and has no trouble answering. Overall, Gwen thinks is cute how much Miles dotes on her, and reminding her that she will always be the prettiest girl alive to him.

Huh, I guess I had more to say that I expected, this was fun! Thanks for the question and sorry for the delay.

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morphodae · 1 day

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Hello!! May I request something for black butler? Reader usually being quite non-confrontational and energetic but has a bit of a possessive streak. Not toxic level but sort of unintentionally intimidates people that flirts w/ their partner even when they know they’re taken like staring down at them from behind their partner or being passive-aggressive, and then just goes back to being their usual self once the other person’s left.

The characters being Claude, William Spears, and Lawrence Bluewer (you can replace him with Sebastian if you don’t write for Lawrence).

Tysm and sorry for the long request!! Feel free to delete if ever ^^

Protective Passion

Sorry it took me a bit to get to this. I’m not entirely caught up with Lawrence and the Public School Arc but I did some research :) I hope you enjoy! Thank you for requesting 💜

Claude Faustus 🕷️

On the surface, Claude doesn’t seem to care much for your existence at all.

He’s a demon who knows he’s can take the form of a handsome man - which he has - and who could charm anyone he sees fit. Only, he usually does this in order to make a contract. When you came into his life, he surprised himself at how… endearing your qualities were to him.

As said before, he knows he has attractive looks and charm and it isn’t uncommon for people to try and flirt with him. It usually ends the same way: with his unblinking stare and some remark about business at hand; you don’t need to worry. He knows that he’s taken by you.

As a demon, he can be quite possessive; it’s a natural instinct for him. So when he sees you of all people becoming instinctually protective over your relationship with him, he feels an odd sense of pride well up into his chest and a small smirk cross his face.

You needn’t worry, dear. Claude has already claimed you as his long ago and no mortal, demon, angel, or otherworldly being is going to come in between that.

William Spears ⚔️

More likely than not, your relationship with him would have to remain secret and private. It took a long, long time for you to even worm your way into his heart. He’s supposed to remain impartial and adhere to all rules, after all.

On the rare occasion that he isn’t busy as a Grim Reaper, he does try to take you out on private outings. Usually, these “dates” consist of private, scenic spots around London or even an indoor date at your home.

If, by chance, an individual disturbs your outing with him and even flirts with him without taking the hint, and William sees you become protective, he will quickly take you elsewhere as though not to escalate the situation.

He’s flattered at the thought you’d felt the need to be possessive of him, but he’d rather avoid conflict of any sort. To him, he will tell you that no one else stands a chance with him. He, an avid rule follower, has already broken the code of impartiality by being with you, so there’s no need to doubt his unwavering affection for being with you.

Lawrence Bluewer 📚

Ah, yes, another avid rule-follower who values tradition in academic and personal settings.

Lawrence is definitely attractive in a booksmart sort of way, and his knowledge and stoicism might even be seen as attractive to others initially.

If a person doesn’t take the hint that you two are a couple while you are there, and you feel the need to make snide remarks and stand your ground, Lawrence won’t really know what to do.

After a moment, he will fix his glasses, clear his throat, and excuse himself and you from the person causing issues. Despite his best wishes, his cheeks are a faint shade of pink and he’s mentally berating himself to maintain composure.

He appreciates your devotion to him and is surprised that you seem so fiercely loyal, but he also would prefer if you follow proper etiquette in social situations. Don’t get him wrong, he adores all aspects of your personality, but he still does put traditions on a pedestal.

In the end, you receive a light scolding as his significant other and a light peck on the cheek before the two of you go about the rest of your day.

#x reader #claude x reader #claude faustus x reader #lawrence bluewer #lawrence x reader #black butler x reader #black butler headcanons #anime headcanons #anime x reader #kuroshitsuji x reader #william t spears #black butler william

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burinazar · 27 days

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I'm sure you've mentioned it before, but I was wondering who your favorite Made in Abyss character is and why they're your favorite? :3

I love all the main kids as well as many other characters so it's hard to choose but I think I'd have to say mine is Faputa. Not only is she a super interesting and cool character, but she's also A Creature. A little ball of fluff that can kill

---------------------

Thank you very much for the ask, anon! haha, "little ball of fluff that can kill"...yes, Faputa is great, and I think the main cast of Abyss is very endearing and very well fleshed-out. I was having a nice exchange on AO3 the other day regarding how GOOD the characterization of Abyss is and how it's often overlooked in favor of the also-extremely-good worldbuilding and plot, and why that might be, and was considering how it links together with some of my other Thoughts about ways this fandom is different from my other ones as far as what people are into (I need to finish the self-reblog I was gonna do about that on a recent related post actually). Anyway, pretty much the whole cast is endearing and/or enjoyable to watch in some capacity. But there is a definite answer as to favorite(s).

I put these up on my wall this evening, which may help to answer your question.

(Please note the scrolls. I missed the Amiami preorder period for those two because they closed earlier than the rest for some reason, but was able to get them from Suruga-ya eventually. They'll be on the wall at some point too.)

The story and cast prior to s2 I enjoyed in a, like, normal way, and then the Ganja squad arc hit me like a damn asteroid. These people...I've thought and felt and said so much about them, and after a year and a half I'm still brimming with something that feels like it has to be poured out, onto blank canvases and into the written word, and there's no end in sight. I have never had characters that were such good muses to me except perhaps for a couple I made up myself. Belaf has to be called my favorite at this point, but for a long time it was Vueko, and I really, really like Waz too; the manner in which these three characterize one another makes it a little painful to try to separate and rank them, but yes, that's the order. I dote on B and V in particular.

(Self portrait circa August 2023.)

At this point I have so much to say about them that being asked why I like them is hard to answer succinctly. Belaf is so, so sweet, but in an unusual weird, intense nerd way that I find incredibly endearing .....and then that kindness and strength of character fucking destroys him and it's tragic and beautiful and there is so much to pick apart in the manner and meaning of his transformation and his absolution, and it's also a great deal of fun to depict him as he was before. "Before" Belaf is such a fun sort of quirky nerd and his relationships wth Waz and Vue and Iru offer, like, SO much to turn over and look upon fondly, humor and friendship and loyalty and love.

And yet, when I write about his years of friendship with and loyalty and closeness to Wazukyan and Vueko and his parenthood and tutelage of Irumyuui and (note: hallucinatory) camaraderie with the other Ganja, hanging over my shoulder always is his downfall and it makes all of those things so much more beautiful, the tinny note of tragedy that is always playing at the edge of our hearing once we see it all and know how it must end.

(Another crispy fried self portrait from last year. I don't really draw myself these days at all EXCEPT in the context of making fun of my sages obsession.)

As for Vueko, since she's fairly popular maybe explaining her appeal isn't needed...or maybe it is, because it's so much more than the shy and gentle and somewhat silly person she is on the surface, it is so, so much more. Under the Layer of Fuheh she's made of steel --it's just that she's very, very softspoken, which people mistake for passivity and spinelessness. Even fans who purport to like her sometimes reduce her to victimhood and weakness. Perhaps because it's a misconception she clearly holds about herself, and a viewer can be forgiven for not putting together that Vueko might literally be the sage that acts with the most agency. There's so much more I can say that I love about her and her story, especially in the context of the other characters and the way she subtly skews some narrative and trope-related expectations, but I think that's the heart of it -- yes, she was endearing as soon as I met her, but when I saw the subtle yet unmistakeable strength under it all (and parsed that she never saw it herself, I think that little pop of tragedy really makes it hit for me lol), I think that's what made me adore her.

This next little bit might be kind of fucked up but what really makes that strength into something that haunts and compels me is that Vueko has so much determination and strength of character that she will unhesitatingly act to destroy the people she cares about very very much if she has decided at that moment that it is the best thing for them (Irumyuui, Belaf, Irumyuui again.) I can trace the real beginning of my obsession with these characters to when s2e8 aired and this is pretty much why.

So...yeah. Belaf and Vueko! Aaaand there's no way I can write about Waz here without making this post way too fucking long but.

One more shitty self portrait from earlier in the obsession should do it.

Yep!

#made in abyss #Orphan hole tag #i say she 'destroyed' him because 'Perpetuated His Soup Based Mindbreak' would not fit the tone of the post.#at that juncture this was the only way she could save his life. and after all he'd done for her...she would be strong for him now.#no matter how he might beg her not to. : (((#also obviously i like irumyuui and pakkoyan a lot as well. i think my fanworks make this clear #but i can't deny the sages are the Obsession Provokers #btw i know i refer to the anime a lot in this post but i've read various portions of the manga as well and am 'caught up'#but like. .... ...this is weird but for me it felt like s2/Ganja arc is 'the part i'm in the fandom for/of'#i'm interested in the rest and will enjoy it in the same way as s1 but the part my heart will continue to dwell in is the story of the ganj #and the sage obsession is unlikely to transfer to further characters. this is why i sort of say i'm in 'a fandom in a fandom' sometimes.#anyway thanks again for the ask and sorry the answer is. So. Much.

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corvidlvr51 · 3 months

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please share your wisdom of the pandora hearts title meaning!!

First, thank you for the ask! I'm not very good at articulating my thoughts on this sort of stuff so sorry if it I sound incoherent. Also my take isn't anything new, it's been said before and it's fairly obvious in hind sight tbh (at least to me). I had just dismissed the title early on and hadn't noticed the connections while reading the manga for the first time lol.

I don't think the title is meant to represent a specific aspect of the manga, but rather thread together the main motifs of hope, despair, light & darkness, people's hearts and of course, love. I don't have any exact references on hand, but you can open almost any volume and find a panel with one of these themes pretty easily. What/who exactly is "pandora" or "pandora's box" doesn't really matter as it can apply to any of the characters or even the abyss itself, and hell even life in general.

It's like the main quote of the series, "Someone said that this place is engulfed in darkness. But, that doesn't mean there was never any light there". While it's very obviously about the Abyss, it can also be applied to the series as whole or individual characters. Oz even compares light and hope in one scene.

Jack talks about how Lacie brought him hope, but it was because of that hope he was engulfed in the shadows of despair and lost himself in them. Oz, on the other hand, starts the series an abused child who's lost his will to truly live, but he is able to find hope and love and ends the series happy and fulfilled. The manga is filled with awful and dark moments/events, but it's ultimately a story of hope & love & connection.

I'm going to stop myself there, so hopefully you get the point. There's a lot of ways to apply the title Pandora Hearts to the manga, as it's kinda just an encapsulation of the themes of the whole thing.

#pandora hearts #pandora hearts spoilers #Basically people's hearts are pandora boxes :)#ranlog #I didn't bring up the actual Pandora organization cause I'm not confident about how it slots into everything #my theories are either:#A: Mochijun just wanted to put the name Pandora into the manga somehow and choose to give it to the organization #B: it's an extension of Jack's actions with him as “pandora” and the Abyss as “pandora's box” if that makes any sense #C: a more cynical take on the myth with the organization “pandora” opening the Abyss as “pandora's box” and -#messing with what they shouldn't have/opening what they shouldn't thus releasing despair aka the chains and stuff #Sheryl outright says that humans shouldnt mess with things beyond their comprehension at the end of manga #although typing it out point C could also be extension of Jack's actions/character arc #but idk something just about it just doesn't feel right #like I'm missing the piece that makes it all fit together #if it even fits in the first place #or maybe the wrongness is just entirely in my head idk #uh anyways if you reading this anon sorry I took a while to answer I didn't even see I'd gotten an ask until today

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aaaarsonist · 7 months

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Pirates of the Caribbean au (just the first three movies though): Tweek as Elizabeth, Craig as Will and Kenny as Jack. Kyle as Norrington is so funny to me ksldksmkz. Clyde would be Ragetti, though I'm not sure who would fit as Pintel (maybe Jason? Idk). Gibbs is a tough one, maybe Stan. Wendy as Anamaria.

I need Henrietta as Calypso. I don't care about Davy right now (Damien could maaaybe fit, but I'd make their relationship platonic)

Bebe as Barbossa, I love the friendship/rivalry between Jack and him, and I think it would fit Kenny and Bebe perfectly jksdks. Also I LOVE the idea of her marrying Tweek and Craig <3

Cartman could be Beckett 'cause he's an asshole.

#its three am and im watching all the movies help #im not a huge fan of the last two movies but i can't get out of my head Marjorine as Angelica #aaaalso Elizabeth and Will could also fit Kyle and Stan but i could choose the rest of the characters to make sense #also i also love the idea of Craig as Davy and Tweek as Calypso. tragic lovers my beloved #well actually i dont even know if what i wrote makes sense but its whatever #south park #craig tucker #tweek tweak #sp creek #kenny mccormick #sp twenny #yes that's also why i choose Tweek as Elizabeth #stan marsh #kyle broflovski #bebe stevens #wendy testaburger #henrietta biggle #pirates of the caribbean #i meant couldn't when i mentioned style sorry

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highlifeboat · 3 months

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Lmao, you really said, "I will have my canon transman! One way or another!"/lh

Nah, but really, you go off :p

Moira deserves more content 💜

I will, and if it can't be Jill (who I still wanna root for because she's still giving the vibe) it's gonna be the 20 year old afraid of fire arms who I've known for like... an hour.

Plus Moira would probably model himself after his dad, and I can actually tolerate Barry. Mostly because I don't remember him very well from the first game but I'm sure he was typical Macho Man Tough Shit.

Even though Moira is 100% giving Emo boy and not Macho Man.

(That said I promise nothing in terms of content)

It's not like I don't have transmen headcanons for characters that already looks like dudes, but I think a transman who hasn't actually started transitioning at all is... something. I dunno.

#i just want a transman character to relate to i think #like yess transman who doesn't correct anyone on his pronouns because he's afraid to #yess to the idea he's not out to anybody/very few ''officially'' yet but really wants to be/has dropped hints nobody takes #but at the same time is too scared to screw up the status quo by saying it #and just complicated feelings about it all #cause like ethan and leon and billy are all great transmen in my eyes but they're also all transmen who are like #definitely out and/or have people who support them and have top surgery or whatever #and i think i liked the idea for jill originally because ''oh tough guy not afraid of anything too afraid #to tell his friends he wants to change pronouns''#and yeah i could make an oc for that i guess but then i have to fit it into the lore somehow and i ignore so many ocs already #isk im sorry that ramble got mildly personal pfff #asks #horror lady00

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