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pessimisticpigeonsworld · 2 months

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Mad Queen Misogyny

All the mad queen Dany takes, from both D&D and the audience, are just plain misogyny. They are literally just repeats of common misogynistic ideas. D&D have given a few reasons for why they wrote the mad queen ending for Dany, and all of them are the same old misogynistic tropes of fantasy and mythology.

The Mad Queen:

I'm going to start this off by going into how the mad queen trope itself is rooted in misogyny. This is one of the oldest tropes in fantasy/fairytales. Whether it's Snow White's evil step mother or the Queen of Hearts, literature is riddled with mad queens.

The idea of the mad queen is informed by the desires of men to keep women out of power. Yes there are historical women who were horrible people and unstable when in power. However, those examples are not enough to justify the amount of times the trope occurs, especially since some of the examples occur after many stories have already been written (ie, Mary I and medieval fairytales). These fictional women were written as cautionary tales of what happens when a woman is placed in power.

By writing the mad queen Dany arc in GOT, D&D are perpetuating an old trope rather than "subverting" anything as they claim. The most powerful woman in the world turning out to be a war mongering and mass murdering tyrant isn't subversive in any way. The only reason it was surprising was because it came out of nowhere narratively.

ASOIAF fans who constantly try to justify this turn for Dany's book character are attempting to do the same thing D&D did. They want to employ an ancient trope to justify their dislike for her in name of being "subversive".

The Violent Woman:

A trope that stretches back all the way to the Ancient Greeks is that of the angry, homicidal woman in power. From Hera to Medea, the myths are full of women who commit atrocities simply because of anger. This trope isn't just about avenging a slight or retribution on the guilty; it's about a woman taking out her anger on innocent parties.

Daenerys has fallen into the role of the avenger many times throughout both the show and and book. She killed Mirri Maz Duur for the murder of her son and husband. She killed the Undying for attempting to trap/kill her. She kills Kraznys mo Nakloz and many other slavers for the atrocities they commit constantly on the people they enslaved.

In the show, she imprisoned Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Doreah in a vault for killing Irri and helping the warlocks steal her children. She killed the Khals who threatened to rape her. She kills the Tarleys for rebelling against the Tyrells, thus getting them killed, and refusing to bend the knee.

Every time Dany killed up until season eight, it was purely because those she killed harmed her or her allies/children. That is why none of her past kills justify her burning KL. The people of KL did nothing to her; it's not an established part of her character to harm innocents out of anger. She even outright condemns the killing of innocents in earlier seasons.

The inconsistencies show how D&D chose to blatantly ignore the complexities of Dany's character in favor of a sexist trope. They perpetuated the idea that a woman in power who is angered will ultimately commit injustice and atrocities.

Dany antis in the ASOIAF fandom are no different from D&D. A common argument used by Dany and Targaryen antis is that they are bound to be corrupt and tyrannical because they have dragons. Essentially saying that Dany was doomed to be the villain the moment she hatched her children.

They point to her dragons' existence and her conquest in Essos as reasons for her "villain arc", despite the fact that none of her actions reflect the things they claim. Dany is simply being condemned for being a woman with power; it's expected of her to be a tyrant for those reasons alone.

The Woman Scorned:

This reasoning given by D&D in a behind the episode interview is probably the excuse that I hate the most. They said that one of the reasons for Dany's descent into madness was because Jon Snow refused to kiss her back once he found out they were aunt and nephew. This is an insanely misogynistic trope.

Used time and again by writers (mostly male), this trope is about a woman who becomes an antagonist due to rejection, unrequited love, or betrayal from a lover. In the case of Dany and GOT, it's Jon refusing to continue their romantic relationship.

For some reason, this is seen as a breaking point for Dany. A woman who has endured poverty, homelessness, sexual slavery, a traumatic miscarriage and death of a spouse/protector, and the stresses of war was broken by a man refusing to kiss her. Doesn't that sound fucking stupid? Well that's because it is.

Dany has never felt entitled to people's love (with the exception of shitty writing from D&D) let alone someone's sexual/romantic reciprocation. It's out of character and flat out insulting to women to believe that is enough to make Dany into a mass murdering tyrant.

Once again, there are members of the fandom who espouse this reasoning into their own theories and metas. Jonsas especially are guilty of this; some claiming that Jon's rejection of Dany in favor of Sansa will be a catalyst for the "mad queen".

An offshoot of this thinking, is the idea that Dany went/will go mad because she was rejected by the realm.

In the show, the Northmen are dismissive or outright hostile to Dany when she arrives (even after she saves them). Due to this rejection by the Westerosi people, Dany decides "let it be fear" and chooses to burn KL to the ground.

Once again, this idea isn't grounded in her past actions at all. Dany has always known she needs to earn people's love and respect as a ruler, why should she change her mind the moment she steps onto Westerosi soil? The answer is simple: she's a woman, so she can't possibly be able to deal with rejection.

Fans theorize constantly that Dany is going to go mad and destroy KL and Westeros because the people will definitely reject her in favor of Young Griff/Jon Snow/any other king they can think of. This theory is simply clinging to misogynistic ideas about women and it's disgusting in every iteration (it also dismisses the fact that there are people in Westeros excited about the idea of Dany and her dragons in the books but that's a different post).

The Woman Bereft:

This argument is probably the least outright in its misogyny. The idea that a woman who has lost everything will lose her mind isn't a new one and it can be played in a non-sexist way. However, GOT played it completely in the sexist roots of the trope.

Throughout seasons seven and eight, Dany loses basically everything. All but one of her children, her closest advisor and best friend Missandei, Ser Jorah, a massive chunk of her army, her other advisors, most of her allies, and is rejected by Westeros and Jon. That's a lot of loss to endure.

However, Dany has endured severe loss before and never reacted by murdering a city full of innocents. Again, this decision and descent isn't backed up by anything else in her storyline.

The sexism of this idea, that loss produces mad women, is that it's rarely applied to men in the same situations. For example: Tyrion lost everything he cared about, yet he's never written by D&D to be in danger of becoming a mass murderer. He even outright says he wishes he'd poisoned the whole court, but is never portrayed as a mad man by D&D or fans.

Dany is expected to go insane after enduring loss because she's a woman. She's perceived as being fundamentally weaker, mentally as well as physically, so she must be more vulnerable to madness than the male characters.

The Foreign Seductress:

The idea of the foreign seductress is a xenophobic and racist stereotype. For Dany, her antis use the instances of her exercising sexual autonomy and her life in Essos as fodder for this disparaging trope.

In the books and the show, Dany pursues sexual and romantic relationships outside of marriage. This is something that doesn't fall in line with the medieval setting of the world. In Westeros and Essos, it's common for men to do that, but not women, due to systematic misogyny. Because of this, Dany's antis often feel free to argue that because she doesn't act "pure", she is wrong and evil. Dany's bound to become a villain because she isn't a chaste and "good" woman.

In the same way, Dany is painted as wrong for wanting to take her family's throne purely because she wasn't raised in Westeros. She's perceived as a foreign invader by both her antis and D&D.

D&D wrote many scenes of outright xenophobia from the Northmen, Sansa, and Arya towards Dany and her forces without ever condemning those ideas. In fact, they justify them by writing the mad queen ending. The fact that Dany isn't "one of them" is used as an excuse for her descent.

Dany antis also employ this rhetoric, especially when people compare Dany's conquest for the IT to the Starks' desire to retake Winterfell. It's good for the Starks to want to retake their throne because they were raised in Winterfell, but Dany has no right to her ancestral home because she wasn't raised in Westeros.

However, this idea is never applied to Young Griff, who was also not raised in Westeros. Despite this, people will talk about how excited they are for his story and how sad it is that he's totally going to be murdered by his evil aunt. Once again a double standard is applied to Dany.

All this is because Dany is a woman who refuses to conform to patriarchal standards and was raised in a foreign country.

Never Good Enough:

Dany antis and D&D thrive on applying a different set of standards to Dany than other characters. They do this an a way that's reminiscent of the double standards set for women even today.

No matter what Dany does, it's never good enough for them. She dealt with Viserys and his death in the wrong way. She didn't protect her people in the right way. She tried to abolish slavery in the wrong way. She saved the goddamn world wrong. Like nothing Dany does is right in their eyes.

In their minds, Dany should've died in AGOT being a perfectly passive woman. She refused to submit to those (men) around her, and for that they punish her.

She's wrong for fighting the slavers, she's wrong for trying to avenge murdered children, she's evil for killing to protect herself. D&D used each of her actions throughout the show that they seemed too aggressive as justification for what they wrote. Dany's antis do the exact same thing in their theories.

The mad queen Dany theory is rooted completely in misogyny. It has no true justification in the narrative and every argument conjured up is just as sexist as the trope they want to perpetuate.

#daenerys targaryen #asoiaf #anti got #anti jonsa #anti sansa stans #anti dany antis #anti targaryen antis #asoiaf fandom #fandom misogyny #fandom critical #anti d&d #asoiaf meta

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fromtheseventhhell · 7 months

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calling targ fans neo-nazis because they enjoy a fictional family of dragonlords is insane. it's also super disgusting because a majority of targ nation are poc and/or jewish themselves. and where the fuck do they get the idea that targaryens are nazis to begin with? which race are they trying to systematically exterminate? when did they impose valyrian lebensraum on westeros? how the fuck can they be white supremacists against the other whites of an entirely white continent?

Honestly, I think this is why we just have to start being meaner to these people. There's no way they should feel comfortable casually calling people "neo-nazis" because of the fictional characters they like in a fantasy series. I'm so tired of the superiority complex they have because they think they're enjoying the series in the "right" way in comparison to the rest of us. The Targaryens are "Nazis" because they don't like them and need Dany to go mad to fit their idea of what the story should be. In other words, they lack any concept of critical thinking skills and their only reference for the story is that god-awful show that George has said multiple times has a different ending than his. "Targ restoration is neo-nazi rhetoric" and the Targ restoration in question is a former bridal slave who's spent the majority of her life in poverty and danger + who is currently enacting a wide-scale revolution and fighting for slaves getting the family and happiness she's always wanted. Not to mention that people never have these "bad blood" takes about Jon, despite him being Half-Targaryen. The Starks are colonizers who took over the North and decimated the COTF...but I don't see any takes saying it's bad to hope the Starks regain their home. Where are all the metas/theories about the remaining COTF returning and regrowing their numbers? I thought we weren't supposed to like colonizers responsible for the destruction of an entire species? Funny how that hypocrisy works. Meanwhile, the actual author of the series is a Targ stan who has written more for House Targaryen than any other house. But sure...it's our moral obligation as readers to not like them and root for their extinction 🙄

#ask #anon #house targaryen #anti targaryen antis #daenerys targaryen #there's nothing wrong with disliking any character/house but there are certain characters that being /antis/ of is just gonna be miserable #cause the author obviously loves them and is invested in their story #Dany is the character with the most growth + wide-scale impact but he's going to suddenly make her /mad/ in the last act #the main threat is ice zombies...but the /mother of dragons/ who brought magic back to the world is going to die right #I just know y'all were struggling in 9th grade English cause this is just basic reading comp and understanding of the narrative

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lilith-91 · 3 months

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targs antis love to use big words they don’t understand to sound smart

"Colonizers"

"White supremacists"

"Aryan race"

Damn you are so cool, guys. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, but you are so cool!

#asoiaf #game of thrones #house targaryen #house stark #house lannister #anti Targaryen antis #hotd #house of the dragon

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rhaeisthequeen · 2 months

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"It might come as quite a shock to those who think that having a woman on the throne would mean anything for women's liberation in Westeros, but trickle down feminism is not a thing. Liberation cannot start at the top, it is a movement that must start from the bottom up, otherwise the privileged class simply creates more vectors for oppression."

The fact that this exists as an evidence of "feminism" sickens me. Feminism is feminism it doesn't have to start at a "bottom" from "up" shit and if you can't accept that then you're not part of the system.

"Power and privilege are inherently self-protecting, and a those in power, yes, including women, will tear down the less privileged before sacrificing even a tiny scrap of their own privilege or power. "

But it's oh so funny how you only complain about it when it's a woman in charge. Whether it is Danaerys or Rhaenyra they're "privileged" but Alicent, who btw also holds power, yall be very quiet . 🤔 And what about all of the men who ruled before and after? You got nothing to say?

"This is one of the main themes of ASOIAF and yet this fandom has bought into the myth of the liberating queen so wholeheartedly that people actually believe that allowing a tyrant to take the throne, so long as she's a woman tyrant, is praxis. Rhaenyra is not a liberator of women or anyone else, in fact she damages the cause of liberation much more than she helps it."

A tyrant she is for green supporters cause for everyone else she's the rightful queen. To be very fucking honest she could have done a lot worse with how much she had lost thanks to the stepmother from hell.

"Control over the dragons was bought and paid for with the blood of countless slaves, and Rhaenyra wields the tools of the oppressor expertly, threatening all who challenge her with fire and blood, a threat she delivers on before she ever crowns herself queen. "

Her very claim comes from the belief that the one person in charge should wield absolute power and ruthlessly defend that power with the might of dragons.

Targaryens don't need slaves to control dragons, they're Targaryens deal with it. Also Alicent's children started the whole shit! Namely Aemond when he ruthlessly killed his nephew with "the might of dragons". Rhaenyra is defending what is rightfully hers by default.

Let's just say it as it is...you don't think it's fair that Targaryens have Godlike power cause it's unfair for your favorite (irrelevant) house. You don't really care about the smallfolk or how they feel. This is about how you feel. Cause it's only unfair for the whitehaired people to control dragons. Cause you bunch create povs of your favorite house controlling dragons. Cause you bunch write Dany and any other Targaryen female either as a villain, non important or submissive so it fits your mold perfectly...You're just jealous and boy does it show...

#anti targaryen antis #dumbass ppl #rhaenyra targaryen #go be stupid somewhere else

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darklinaforever · 1 month

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Mother & Daughter ! 💕

#hotd #anti hotd #anti house of the dragon #house of the dragon #fire and blood #f&b #team blacks #team black #pro team blacks #pro team black #rhaenyra targaryen #pro rhaenyra targaryen #the realms delight #the black queen #queen rhaenyra #the dragon queen #the half year queen #rhaena targaryen

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witchy-v1xen · 2 months

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There's not a day when I won't feel sorry for her. He never deserved her or any of his children. Ironically, he killed Aemma for a son only to eventually gain not just one but three and neglect them. He traumatized a teenage girl for the rest of her life, using her and leaving her in the dust like she wasn't shit.

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kataraavatara · 2 months

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“the lords of westeros would never accept rhaenyra’s BASTARDS as rulers” the lords of westeros were having a wwe smackdown over who got to marry their children to them. borros b tried to peer pressure luke into breaking his lifelong betrothal and then cregan came in with the pact of ice and fire steel chair

#not even mentioning the Manderlys #who also wanted a piece of the pie…get it manderlys and pies #cregan definitely did that because he was in love with Jace though #like how do you even know Jace is going to HAVE a daughter #you don’t #you’re just a boy kisser #anti team green #rhaenyra targaryen #asoiaf #fire and blood #cregan stark #jacaerys targaryen #lucerys velaryon

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daenerysies · 1 month

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#house of the dragon #baela targaryen #baela the brave #team black #*they* are speaking about her again -_-#keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth #‘sunfyre would never fly again.’ ATE #anti team green

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stargirlfeyre · 5 months

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God please take away all of her pain and give it to Daemon Targaryen.

#alicent hightower #house of the dragon #anti daemon targaryen #hotd

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agentrouka-blog · 21 days

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"I will never be a son."

Viserys made Rhaenyra feel second-rate to an imaginary son all her life growing up, until the one moment he had no choice and made er his heir. Suddenly she herself mattered.

Then he immediately went and took it away, made it conditional on his whims, created several spares that could displace her. He made the initial trauma worse by seemingly repenting only to double down on the message that she herself can never be enough.

It's entirely logical that she would spend the rest of her life both clinging to that title that proves daddy loves her and testing the boundaries to which Viserys will defend her by deliberately flaunting all limitations this title imposes on her life choices. If she gave up that title, even if it would make her both safer and happier in the long term, those imaginary-turned-real sons win and Rhaenyra will truly only be second best forever. And she can't work for it, can't prove herself worthy of it, because that means accepting the title (and his regard) is conditional. She has to have it specifically in spite of every outrageous transgression.

Viserys trapped her in chasing after his love the same way he trapped his children by Alicent into a life of conflict. They exist to put pressure on Rhaenrya as rival spares, and they exist to prove he loves her by choosing her over them at every opportunity. There is no option where they can ever be at peace, ever be safe.

I kind of hate that the show didn't lean into that more. Viserys is such a slithering slime of a father and he deserved the worst.

#hotd #anti viserys i targaryen

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spacerockfloater · 1 month

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Cersei Lannister & Rhaenyra Targaryen:

Are forced to marry someone they don’t love, so they find solace in the arms of a family member and commit incest

Seduce members of the Royal Guard

Have their husbands murdered because they didn’t like them

Have three bastard kids

Commit atrocities to claim the Iron Throne

Betray their allies when they feel threatened

Rule with fire and blood

Live in constant paranoia so they murder innocent servants whom they believe will betray them, even if said betrayal would be a direct consequence of the way they treat their subjects

Are hated by the people

and lets us not forget the -

But no, please go ahead and tell me all about how Rhaenyra is this feminist icon who has the divine right to rule over hundreds of thousands of people because her daddy said so, therefore if I don’t support her I’m a misogynist.

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pessimisticpigeonsworld · 14 days

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Blood Purity and the ASOIAF Fandom

I find it very ironic how Targaryen antis scream about "blood purity" then turn around and support and play into blood purity themselves. Specifically I'm talking about Stark stans and stansas/jonsas.

The Starks canonically prefer to marry with Northern houses, in other words: other First Men. This tradition gives them a rather small gene pool, meaning that incest is pretty much a necessity for them to carry it on. Uncle-niece, aunt-nephew, and cousin weddings were all allowable, and cousin weddings were rather commonplace.

What all that means is that the Starks practice blood purity. Yes, it's different from how the Targaryens did it, but the only differences are that the Valyrians allowed brother-sister marriages and there are only two other Valyrian houses to marry. The Celtigars barely even count, due to how little Valyrian blood is left in them. Both the Starks and Targaryens did marry outside their preferred gene pools. However, that fact doesn't negate that they both practice blood purity.

Stark stans who condemn the Targaryens for marrying to preserve their Valyrian blood are hypocrites. The Starks prefer to marry other First Men and allow certain forms of close incest, if they had as few options as the Targaryens did, they would probably change their views on brother-sister marriages.

Stansas tend to follow the same patterns as Stark stans. They ignore Stark incest and talk about "super special Stark genes" in an almost cult-like fashion. Stansas will go on and on about how the Starks are very special and their (specifically Sansa's) blood is the key to saving the world. Now, there is magic blood in ASOIAF, and the Starks are the one of the families with this. However, the sheer hypocrisy of Stansas and Stark stans to embrace and cheer on this fact for the Starks while simultaneously despising the Targaryens for the same fact is interesting.

Jonsas, who are all stansas just to be clear, are probably the most hypocritical in this group. Jonsa shippers will espouse both anti-incest and anti-blood purity arguments, especially in regards to the Targaryens. However, at the same time, they will write posts about how the incest between Jon and Sansa wouldn't be wrong and how Stark blood is superior. Just like the Stark stans and stansas, they are unironically supporting Stark blood purity. All three of these groups will also write about how the Targaryen bloodline needs to be wiped out.

So basically: Stark stans, stansas, and jonsas all not only support Stark blood purity, but also the eradication of Valyrian blood in Westeros. The hypocrisy is riveting.

#house targaryen #house stark #pro house targaryen #anti targaryen antis #anti stark stans #anti sansa stans #anti jonsa #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #asoiaf fandom #fandom hypocrisy #fandom critical

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fromtheseventhhell · 8 months

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It's genuinely disturbing that people feel comfortable calling others "nazis" because they like characters in a way they don't find personally acceptable. Especially when they think that people calling them out are wrong because a post being "tagged properly" is apparently a free pass to say whatever (their post not even being tagged correctly is a perfect summation of their idiocy). The level of brain rot is unbelievable. People are acting like this over fictional characters because they're that desperate to "win" arguments in fandom. It is truly the mark of people who aren't intelligent enough to make an actual point. I suppose that's how they landed on the logic that blocking everyone who disagrees with them and preserving their echo chamber makes them correct.

#this is why we have to normalize calling people stupid cause they think hitting send on a post means they've made an actual point #they really think they're George's personal appointed keepers of the canon and they get to decide what the story is for themselves lol #what a bunch of fucking lewsers and then they're too cowardly to actually face being called out so they block anyone who disagrees #but if I said wanting the Starks to reclaim winterfell/the North was white supremacy cause they stole the land from the cotf I'd be wrong #/tagged properly/ and they know they'd throw a fit if someone disliked their fave and put it in the anti tag lol they're so hypocritical #you ask for proof of this behavior that is supposedly so prevalent they feel justified on calling targ stans nazis and then it's crickets #the way people trivialize white supremacist behavior is so annoying because it's so often not taken seriously #like if you really think someone's behavior is leaning towards that why is reaction to have a superiority complex around it??#fandom nonsense #anti targaryen antis #there my post is tagged properly so they can't bitch about it if they see it #=

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the-daily-dreamer · 13 days

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I will never forgive HOTD for making me sit through TWO Rhaenyra births and TWO Rhaenyra weddings…

But never having us see Alicent’s wedding or births. Scenes that would have forced the fans to confront the true reality of how despicable her situation is. It would force viewers to see a child, devastated, as she walks down the aisle to her creepy old man of a husband. It would force viewers to watch a little girl have a child. Completely unprepared and alone, crying for her mother and finding no sympathy. She has no father to protect her. No mother to guide her and comfort her. No husband who cares about her.

It would force team black to stop seeing her as the evil seductress, for even a moment. And see her true vulnerability. See how she doesn’t, and never did, want this. See how these are not consequences of her actions, but instead the consequences of the men around her that she has to suffer for them. Because they don’t care about her. Viserys doesn’t care about her.

These are scenes that are meant to bring sympathy to her character. To give Alicent a reason to be righteously angry at the family and system that broke her down and stole her childhood. It gives Alicent a valid motive to fight aside from fear. And it takes away the chances for team black to deny her suffering at least a little bit.

Because as the current narrative sits, it’s easy to ignore Alicent’s experience and warp it into a much more pleasant story. They see Alicent “seducing” the king and then she is already married. And then she’s pregnant and the babies magically appear. No screaming or crying or bleeding involved. All is good. The teenager definitely didn’t suffer at all. And by doing this some people can’t sympathize as much or they are given allowances to intentionally not sympathize.

Instead. The current narrative allows for Alicent to be the seductress, the crazed woman, the jealous bitch, and the villain. But if we saw what she actually went through. Alone, scared, suffering, neglected, and holding it all in. We would be allowed to see her as she truly is. The victim. Finally crushing under the weight of it all and lashing out.

(And the narrative would be all the better for it because instead of feminist icon team vs crazy trad wife and co (as far as team black sees it), we would have woman fighting against patriarchal narrative for her own claim vs woman fighting against patriarchal narrative to destroy the people who hurt her)

#house of the dragon #game of thrones #team green #alicent hightower #pro alicent hightower #good queen alicent #alicent hightower defense squad #anti team black #anti targ stans #anti rhaenyra #anti rhaenyra targaryen

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