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thehollowprince · 10 months

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Holdo was literally one of the worst - if not THE WORST - military commanders/leaders in all of Star Wars.

#sorry not sorry #anti holdo #tlj critical

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watchingtheearthrise · 1 year

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I want everyone who goes “hmmm but JJ set up nothing for Finn and put him in a coma at the end of the film so he never meant for Finn/John Boyega to be the lead” to understand:

First of all: No :)

Secondly: Hold onto this same energy for Rian Johnson regarding Rose Tico/Kelly Marie Tran

Because the Venn diagram that is people who claim JJ was the one who did Finn/John dirty and the people who claim Rian Johnson didn’t treat Rose Tico/Kelly dirty is a circle.

Rian only wrote Rose in because he thought “it’d be really boring” for Finn & Poe to go on an adventure together. He then erased a scene where Finn & Paige would’ve been together when Paige died, which could’ve given us a chance for Finn & Rose to actually bond over something but nope (Point 5 on the list).

Rian wrote Rose to ‘contrast’ with Finn (Point 8 in last link) but really just had her explain slavery and be part of a “war is bad” storyline for Finn? The same Finn who had been stolen as a baby and raised in a brainwashed boot camp to be a child soldier for an evil facist regime?

“Oh he gave her more screen time than in TROS.” He gave her ten minutes. Ten minutes out of a 2 and a half hour slog of a movie. Yes the difference of time is a bit drastic (ten minutes to almost 2) but it’s not that much when you put it against the actual length of the entire movie.

Overall, Rian also did Rose/Kelly dirty. Just like how he did with Finn/John. And I don’t trust people who only mentions her when talking negatively about anyone else (aka not Rian) involved in the making of Star Wars.

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the-force-awakens · 4 months

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I think something that no one talks about is how Poe leans more towards being an anti-hero than just plain hero. He's willing to do the "wrong" things for the right reasons, ex: willing the kill bad people to save the innocent, basically willing to do the dirty work that no one wants to talk or think about. and I think it should be talked about more. Your post was just *chefs kiss*, the way you understood Poe is so refreshing compared to what I see him reduced to in canon

Poe definitely is willing to make the tough calls, including being willing to kill bad people to save innocent people (or destroy a planet to save countless others), but I wouldn't necessarily sort him into the antihero trope myself, more the "good is not nice" trope.

Because for as much as Poe is willing to shoot the bad guys, or blow up a planet if it means saving the galaxy, he's usually the first person to lower his blaster or offer someone a second chance. The biggest source of conflict between himself and Zorii in Free Fall is the fact that Poe can't fit into this life of shades of grey, and that's a trait that does follow him to the Resistance. He can lie (badly) for them, he can steal ships, be labeled a criminal if it's done for the right reasons/for the Resistance but at the same time, he also......really can't wrap his head around and seems uncomfortable at times with Suralinda's way of manipulating or recontextualizing the truth for propaganda purposes (which i wish had...been better explored in the comics it's Fine, but like I wanna know more about Poe "can't lie" Dameron and Suralinda "i'm here to tell a good story" Javos. I WANT TO KNOW MORE LUCASFILM), even if Suralinda is doing those things for the Resistance, so they can gain more support.

There's also this quote of Rian Johnson's, that I really love, and that I feel like sums up Poe the best for me:

“Oscar is like a reincarnation of my favorite old movie stars; he has that old school magnetism paired with insane acting chops. Poe is a straight-up, good-guy hero, and although he gets put through the wringer in this film, because of Oscar you never lose faith that he’s going to come out the other end all the better for it.” [from this post]

I'm having trouble wording/it's kind of hard for me to explain, but like. I view Poe as someone who is, like Rian describes him, as a good-guy hero, who usually cannot quite stop the instinct to do the heroic thing, and how that can make him quite reckless (I do believe Oscar actually described Poe during the TFA Press Tour as "recklessly heroic" sir I'm sorry i ever doubted you about Poe being reckless, I thoroughly learned my lesson #13 Poe issues and a knife to Poe's hand later) - but I think also that doesn't mean that Poe needs to look like the hero, and I think TLJ proves that? He does what he believes is the best for the Resistance, and seizes control of the Raddus. It's a last resort, of course, and I don't think he necessarily cares about what people might think of him for it* - he's a commander, he makes the hard calls all the time, and regardless of his own desire to be a hero, I don't think Poe necessarily wants to be praised as one. He's just gonna do the right, most heroic thing at any given moment, and doesn't care what people say. I mean...we kind of get the impression he's used to being seen a certain way, y'know? Poe doesn't seem surprised in the least when Holdo berates him, he just has this look of "oh this banthashit again I thought I'd heard the last of it", y'know?

*y'know except for leia. because he definitely makes a face when she says that thing about holdo in the transport. anyway moving on because this got completely. the train jumped the track here. adhd moment.

As much as he is willing to do some hard things for the Resistance, I feel like Poe would. not last a day in the Rebellion - the Rebellion is just gray. You have to be, fighting something like the Empire, they're quick and dirty and. manipulative and liars and assassins, and Poe...wouldn't have the heart for that, I think. So I do believe there would be a line, in what Poe would even be willing to do for the Resistance.

That said, I do wish canon/fanon would be more willing to explore....any of his. nuance. that everyone seems very allergic to acknowledging, and I'd especially be interested in seeing more of Poe's - I'm a dw nerd sorry I'm just gonna call it this every time - "oncoming storm" side because it's so much fun. There's some other facets of his character I'd love to see explored in more detail, but that one especially. It would honestly be a dream, I think, if Alex Segura got to write for him again, but perhaps this time in the Resistance era, because I think that man would have a blast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! with writing a good spy adventure.

#ask box #userorb #my meta #(again. oops?)#poe dameron #i haven't seen anyone categorize him more as an anti-hero before tho! but tbh i also.#don't see many people categorizing him as good is not nice either #because that would imply. yknow. acknowledging that poe has depth #and nuance.#and that he exists as a character outside of being attractive or a part of [is sniped]#anyway.#unfortunately getting any exploration on him would. involve.....actual content for him and we're in the middle of a fcking drought right no #i would also Love if someone explored how sensitive he can be t hough #and i don't just mean in a fjaofjaosfj oscar 'he has a sensitive side' isaac way lmfaoooo but wouldn't that be something #poe definitely has rsd i think because he takes rejection/slights SO hard #i kind of want to make a compilation of it JUST from the movies/resistance alone #unfortunately there's So much there (plus in through the turbulance) that i.........do not have the spoons to do so

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boreal-sea · 1 year

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I am sure plenty of people have made this analysis of Star Wars: The Last Jedi, but I don't care.

"Blind loyalty to authority is GOOD" was a bad message for an allegedly anti fascist themed movie series.

The main lessons from TLJ are as follows:

Sacrificing our own against insurmountable odds is not necessarily good, and sometimes surviving to fight another day is the greater act of resistance. We are not nameless soldiers or cannon fodder, we all have family and friends. We matter as individuals.

Blind obedience to your supreme leaders is good, and questioning authority, choosing your own path, and rebelling against orders you think are unjust will only lead to pain. Trust your leaders, and never ask them to explain themselves. Loyalty is all that matters.

These two lessons are uh..... contradictory, to say the least, and the second one is openly fascist, which is pretty weird considering the Rebels are supposed to be the ones fighting against the fascists. Not to mention, both Anakin and Kylo fall prey to charismatic leaders who demand blind loyalty.

And that doesn't even get into the fact that Lesson 1 is openly contradicted part way through the film when Vice-Admiral Holdo selflessly sacrifices herself and an entire resistance space ship to buy the Resistance more time to escape.

I have just so much to say about this film. Mostly that Lesson 2 is wrong, and should've been "Disobeying orders is good if those orders would cause an inhumane loss of life, and you should always question your leaders when they want to go a step too far".

That's my main thesis. Let's get into this.

We are going to focus only on the opening sequence because it really functions as a framework for the whole film, and we'll focus on Poe's characterization in this sequence.

So right off the bat we get the first instance of these two lessons being mashed together: Poe disobeys orders and sacrifices lives to take down a First Order ship. He thinks it's a great victory, but Leia explains that the Order can literally just make more of those ships in like two seconds, but the loss for the Resistance was immeasurable. The movie's lesson is: Poe should always follow orders, and sacrificing lives is bad.

Obviously I have issues with how this sequence is written. It should've played out in a way where "blind, unquestioning obedience" was not one of the lessons.

Personally, Poe doesn't seem like the kind of character who needs to be taught "sacrificing yourself or others is bad, actually". He literally helped save a Storm Trooper after knowing him for two seconds. Poe is a good guy with strong morals.

That said, I can vibe with Poe being written as a bit too loyal to the Resistance. It's part of his characterization already; he nearly worships Leia as a leadership figure, and he's a very enthusiastic flyboy, ready to take on whatever dangers the Rebels ask of him.

Writing Poe as willing to obey the orders of his leaders is right there. And this could've lead to some great internal conflict! Poe, told to sacrifice his people, and not wanting to do that, but also wanting to believe the Rebellion is "always right"...

Instead, they turned him into a jerk who doesn't want to listen to anyone and is bloodthirsty enough to purposely kill his own people for victory. That does not vibe with how he was written in the first movie.

Now, I could see him being written as a bit of a hot-headed rebel... if that rebellion was against following orders that sacrifice too many lives. Again, this would fit with his original characterization.

So if I could rewrite that opening sequence, I'd do it one of two ways:

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Poe as loyal but conflicted

In this version of the sequence, Poe is ordered to sacrifice the ship with Rose's sister Paige on it for the good of the mission; he is conflicted but follows through, though he does everything he can to try to get Rose's sister out in time. These orders would have to come from Holdo, not Leia. Poe comes back, and is not reprimanded, but has a discussion with Leia about his conflicted feelings. Notably, Leia tells Poe he was right, and that sacrifice isn't always the correct choice, nor is blind obedience. Leaders can be wrong.

Poe as rebellious with morals

In this version of the sequence, Poe is given the order to sacrifice the ship, and refuses to follow through. Someone else involved, someone higher up, orders the ship to go through with the mission and it does, and Rose's sister Paige dies all the same. Poe is reprimanded upon return and taken off missions as in the movie, but he's seething for the right reasons this time. He talks to Leia and she agrees that he was right to disobey orders but there's nothing she can do at the moment.

---

Either of these changes keep Poe's morality and characterization intact and change the second lesson from "blind loyalty is great" to "blind loyalty is bad, actually".

And there would've been so many ways to work Finn into this too - Finn, who openly defied the First Order, refused to shoot, and then rescued Poe! In the scenario where Poe is loyal but conflicted, Finn could've been that additional voice to say "yeah you're right actually, disobeying bad orders is great, believe me".

In the other scenario, with rebellious Poe, it would've served to strengthen their friendship, as they are both now fighters who refused to take a life in the name of duty.

#star wars #star wars the last jedi #the last jedi #poe dameron #finn

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poelya · 6 days

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top 5 sequels character hair styles?

Oh this? this is fantastic, I love this. Let's do this.

Rey's tlj hair

I think we can all agree that the buns are iconic, but I just really love this look on Rey. It's so beautiful, and I loved seeing her with her hair down for a little bit.

2. kaydel's space buns

I mean, c'mon! It's so much fun to see Leia having an in-universe impact on how people doing their hair as much as she's had in our world, y'know? And made even sweeter by the fact that we see it with Billie Lourd's character.

3. holdo's purple hair

Listen my feelings on this woman is fomplicated at best. I mean, my god, I invented an entirely new term so I could categorize her in my brain (anti-blorbo, if you're curious. she's not a blorbo, but she also lives rent free in my brain bc i'm constantly spinning her around trying to figure out what the fuck is going on with her. charles soule is nawt helping in that regard). but one thing that is not complicated is that this hair fucks. it fucks severely. it also makes me want to dye my hair purple again. so y'know.

4. rose's little electrical wire hair ties

I couldn't find a shot in gif search where you could see the aforementioned electrical wires, but I think it's one of my many favorite little character details for Rose? She ties her hair with electrical wires....I..........wuv her.............so much.............she's my darling......

5. last, but certainly not least. Poe Dameron's curls in the Last Jedi

like don't get me wrong, my man looks handsome as hell in every movie but THIS ONE? THIS LOOK? HELLO? the curls....they are just so......[gets distracted staring at the gif]

ask me my top five anything!

#....this is apparently a love letter to the hairdressers on the last jedi #but they were - what is it the kids say?#'they were cooking'#is that what the kids say. is that? i don't know.#they were onto something i know that <3 #asks #tremendouskoalachild

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iinmortales · 2 years

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star wars: retroactively adds amilyn holdo as leia’s childhood friend me: ok so now i gotta adopt her

leia and amilyn met after leia’s day of demand. they served in the apprentice legislature together and took path finding classes together while leia was preparing to climb appenza peak. they became friends, and they shared political views. amilyn was openly critical of imperial politics even when they both moved to the senate. she, just like leia, left imperial politics to devote her time to the rebellion. while leia gravitated more toward military tactics and operations, holdo became a rebellion minister, giving anti-imperial speeches and recruiting others to their cause. she did eventually become a captain in the alliance navy after taking command of the blockage runner Candor and saving the crew from imperial capture, gaining a reputation for employing unconventional maneuvers.

it was briefly believed that amilyn was on alderaan at the time of the planet’s destruction, having been visiting bail and breha just before. however, she had only just left the system when the death star arrived, and was able to reunite with the rebels on hoth. amilyn spent the next phase of the war embedded in the crime syndicates and was able to inform leia that han solo (then frozen in carbonite) had been auctioned to the hutts. throughout the rest of the war, amilyn served as both minister and commander, eventually assisting in preventing the destruction of planets during the empire’s operation cinder.

during the years of the new republic, amilyn settled on galalenta, occasionally taking part in galatic politics, but otherwise assisting in her homeworld’s recovery from imperial rule. she assisted luke skywalker when he came to gatalenta to learn about the planet’s strong jedi ties.

when leia approached amilyn about joining the resistance, she didn’t hesistate. if leia said war was coming, she trusted her oldest friend. amilyn joined the resistance as a vice admiral and was given command of the ninka. during the cold war between the new republic and the emerging first order she worked to gather intelligence to prove the first order’s danger, encountering poe dameron during these operations. after full on war broke out, holdo commandeded the bomber squadrons that attacked the super dreadnaught during the evacuation of d’qar.

resistance command decimated by first order attacks, amilyn took command of the fleeing resistance forces on their way to crait. living up to her reputation for unconventional maneuvers, she arranged the evacuation of all resistance forces before accelerating the raddus to near light speed and colliding violently with the first order’s mobile headquarters, the supremacy. her last act in service to the resistance, her sacrifice, allowed the resistance enough time to make planetfall and survive to ultimately defeat the first order.

#( ooc ) k80 speaks #( about ) amilyn holdo

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deafblindshorty · 4 years

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So, according to the “Fascinating Facts” book, Poe felt a “traction” towards Holdo

I mean...I know cougars exist, but really?

Holdo does nothing but insult Poe and leave him in the dark the entire film.

Yet Ruin Johnson claims that that plus the dress Holdo wears is “flirting”.

Rey being paired with one toxic man is one thing, but Poe being paired with TWO toxic women (Zorii in Free Fall, Holdo in TLJ) is a bit much, don’t you think?

And another thing, speaking of Free Fall, I wonder if Rian reads that book, that part where Zorii’s mom slices Poe up like a ham, that Rian would ask “Um...why is that crazy sword lady flirting with her daughter’s boyfriend?”. I definitely wouldn’t put it past him.

#star wars #anti rian johnson #anti holdo #anti amilyn holdo #poe dameron #anti poldo

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dalekofchaos · 4 years

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The incompetence of The Resistance and The First Order in The Last Jedi

The Last Jedi, I am 50/50 on. But my problem is the baffling decisions with The tactics of both The Resistance and First Order. TLJ shows a lack of understanding for even the most basic military operations.

I’ve gone to explain why The First Order is incompetent in general a few years ago. Now I will go on to explain why both parties are incompetent. Also see here why Poe’s actions were justified and Holdo’s petty behavior did more to damage The Resistance than the actual fascists pursuing their deaths

Both parties make baffling decisions that show neither knows how to conduct warfare in the established rules of the Star Wars universe. To name a few examples

Hux is goaded into allowing a Starfighter into point blank range with one of their fleet’s more valuable assets, he doesn’t launch a fighter screen to keep that fighter at bay, and when a real danger is detected, still does nothing. Captain Canady is left to launch his own fighters from Fulminatrix, and gets no support from Hux or the rest of the First Order fleet. Hux doesn’t launch support fighters, direct their batteries to put up defensive fire covering the dreadnought, nothing, no he’s too busy massaging his bruised ego because some flyboy put him on tilt with what amounts to a practical joke, and an 8km long warship pays the price for Hux’s incompetence.

The Resistance utilizes bombers that are vastly inferior to ones their predecessors have used in past films.

Poe's single X-Wing is able to take out every single gun on a massive capital ship containing hundreds of enemy soldiers before any TIE Fighters are deployed.

Leia orders The Resistance bombers to turn around when they are halfway to their target, even though they are so slow and vulnerable that at that point, they would easily be destroyed if they tried to abandon their mission.

Even after destroying The Dreadnought, which saves The ENTIRE Resistance(as the Dreadnought would have been able to easily destroy The Resistance Fleet during the ensuing slow chase), Poe is reprimanded by Leia despite her terrible command decision, and the movie tries to portray her as being in the right.

The First Order ships chase The Resistance at normal speed instead of simply having some jump ahead of The Resistance fleet to cut them off, which could have singlehandedly ended the movie at any time.

And now onto the chase, or as I like to call it “the dumbest bit of military nonsense since the Emu war.” You have the First Order Fleet chasing the Resistance flotilla, supposedly the Resistance fleet is “faster” but they aren’t opening the gap between them and the First Order because… it would burn more fuel (because inertia isn’t a thing in Star Wars Space)? So they stay just at the extreme range of the First Order’s guns, and the Raddus has to be on the receiving end of a potshot every once in a while. Meanwhile said Resistance ships are flying in a straight line, direct away from the First Order fleet, so why not just set course past them and Hyperspace in front of them and catch them in the middle? Are interdictors at play here? Are they content to just think the fleet will run out of fuel and they can just catch them? It bothers me to understand that the heroes are only alive because of the gross incompetence of the First Order, because it doesn’t speak well to the capabilities of the heroes.

The Resistance is shown to have hyperspace-capable ships on board their capital ship, but does not use them to go secure more fuel or make multiple trips to evacuate small groups of people at a time, instead using one for the Canto Bight sequence.

Holdo didn’t just keep Poe in the dark, she kept the ENTIRE RESISTANCE in the dark.

Holdo refuses to tell Poe, the second-highest-rankng Resistance official present, that she even has a plan, let alone details of it, even after he and many others rightfully express their concerns.

Holdo still refuses to tell Poe her plan when he and many others mutiny, at which point she has every reason to believe that everyone on board that ship will die if Poe goes through with his own plan.

Connix assisted in Poe’s mutiny and she is the “ultimate authority�� on carrying out a retreat. Why was she not told about the plan? Her position and placement on the bridge next to Holdo is pretty “need to know”.

Holdo plans to have The Resistance flee to Crait in escape pods that are easily detectable and shot down, and then waits until many of them have been destroyed before resorting to the hyperspace jump maneuver.

And, most egregiously of all, the hyperspace maneuver itself, whereby all of star wars combat is irrevocably altered by Johnson's inclusion of a devastatingly effective technique that has never been possible in the lore up until this point.

So now the Resistance is stuck on Crait, the First Order knows they are there, we know implicitly that the First Order has more than one dreadnought in their fleet, we also know the Resistance is fresh out of bombers. Maybe instead of calling for a costly ground invasion just call in another dreadnought or unleash your Star Destroyers for an orbital bombardment of Crait and finish the job once and for all. This isn’t next level thinking, this isn’t superior tactics. This is using a rock to smash a bug levels of thinking. But they don’t, they land a ground invasion bigger than Hoth and bring a mini Death Star with them because they just had to have a copy of Empire didn’t they? Note again, that while Hoth was defended by more men with better equipment, Crait is defended by a quarter as many with rusting, dilapidated equipment… but it was enough to keep the Order stalled for Luke Skywalker to video-conference in.

Failure to Blockade and Control the Theater of Operations. But more on the invasion, there is apparently no fleet around Crait, no blockade, no nothing, because the Millennium Falcon is allowed to enter the planet and escape completely unhindered and unchased by the First Order with the remaining resistance fighters aboard. Yeah, you read that right, the Resistance can now fit on the Falcon, but no, they didn’t lose, they live to fight another day, by the grace of the Order’s incompetence.

#Anti TLJ #Poe Dameron #Leia Organa #General Armitage Hux #Armitage Hux #Anti Holdo #The First Order #The Resistance

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stopthatbluecat · 4 years

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Finn the Fashionable

Finn was NOT impressed on Canto Bight. He was amazed and horrified because he had never seen such terrible looks - he could NOT believe it.

Poe and BB-8 showed Finn a holo of Holdo's outfit and his naturally fashion-savvy brain short-circuited so he just said, "...what???"

On Canto Bight he was about to open his mouth and say, "Hey, now I know where Holdo got her outfit."

Finn said, "THIS is the ugly shit they do with all of their money and freedom?? We're coming back to steal all of their money after we burn the order down."

#finn #finn sw #rebelfinn #finn skywalker #anti holdo #her look was bad #also CB had tiny slave children ffs they gotta go

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mereoleonawifecity · 4 years

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That post about Holdo and jyn stealing rep from men of color just reminds me of how Holdo did the exact same thing commander Sato did in Rebels. The difference is Sato’s death mattered, he saved many people, and he did it as a last resort. Not because he was being an idiot and undermining someone else who knew better than him this resulting in him screwing everyone over and having to give his life because of it. Two crew members stayed with Sato out of loyalty so he wouldn’t die alone that’s how much his crew cared for him.

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Commander Sato I’m so sorry rians dumb ass knock off of you gets the praise you rightfully deserves from fans.

#anti tlj #anti holdo #commander sato #all always be bitter over this #he just said hey rebels let me steal that from you

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poewasright · 5 years

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poe dameron: calls h*ldo a coward and a traitor

me:

#he was right and he should say it #anti holdo #my pettiest thing is i refuse to reblog things with her #except the gifs where he's yelling at he #*her not he

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bg-11 · 5 years

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Holdo’s homeworld is literally a planet full of overly sensitive Brendan Fraser’s from Bedazzled.

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Yeesh.

#Star Wars #Disney Star Wars #Anti Disney Star Wars #Anti Disney Canon #Anti Holdo

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proudtoehaver · 6 years

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I just had one of my “weird, five minutes before bedtime” thoughts.

What if Holdo was one of Snoke’s agents? Like, she isn’t loyal to the First Order as such, she’s loyal to Snoke specifically.

That would explain why she struck at the Supremacy when she did. Not because the Resistance ships were being destroyed, it was what she always intended. But because she sensed through the Force that Snoke had died and turned on the incompetents that couldn’t keep him alive on his own flag ship, against a puny detail of ragtag refugees she’d handed to them on a silver platter.

In this light all her actions suddenly makes a shit ton more sense.

#anti holdo #anti tlj #tlj critical

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ree-duh · 6 years

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I’m so glad I’m not the only one that doesn’t like Holdo

Omg is this about my tags because SAME she kinda frustrated me but I felt like I couldn’t say anything because people would go on about how she’s a ‘strong female character’ so I shouldn’t say anything

#anti holdo

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mrs-emma-swan-jones · 6 years

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what she says: I'm fine.

what she means: Why didn't Holdo just tell Poe about the plan to sneak all the rebels to Crait? It's not like it was a big secret since everyone was going to find out once they boarded the transports. Poe understood once the plan was explained to him, so if Holdo had just explained why she was doing what she was doing she would have prevented the mutiny and probably been successful in saving all the rebels. Poe just wanted everyone to make it, and when he thought Holdo was dooming them all he acted and I refuse to fault him for that, especially since she was the one who was more concerned about putting Poe in his place rather than the wellbeing of the remaining rebels.

#personal #i think about this all the time #poe dameron #tlj spoilers #the last jedi #star wars #anti holdo #i didn't care for her or her fucking pink hair #i liked her better in jurassic park

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yenneferw · 6 years

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honestly one more thing and i’ll quit bitching for that night but between tlj and rogue one star wars is really just gonna make a thing out of stealing the power from the latino rebel’s hands and giving it over to a white lady now huh. like it’s just gonna be a theme that the rightful leader with a more complex and interesting backstory is gonna get sidelined for boring repetitive white women now isn’t it. like we’re gonna have to sit around and listen to more ppl call holdo’s complete and utter disrespect for poe “progressive” bc she’s a white woman. this is just. our lot in life

#noah fence but i hate gin eyesore with my entire existence #i don't post about it much tho bc i don't watch rogue one often bc she ruins it for me #tlj spoilers #anti jyn erso #anti holdo #sydni bitches

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